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Hate the new Evernote


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36 minutes ago, Brian Handscomb said:

Nested notebooks IMHO don't "make sense" (a book inside a book) and very quickly raises complications, but I could imagine the scenario where you might have a group of books that you could "collapse" like a folder in a file system navigator and you could maybe put groups into groups if you really wanted, and from a tech point of view you'd add a piece of metadata to the notebook called "parent" which old clients could ignore, then make a new class of object for the groups. Providing clients ignore unknown metadata fields (or maybe the API has a way of telling whether or not to include that bit of data) it should be possible to implement without breaking old clients.

By having groups ONLY containing groups and notebooks you avoid breaking and complicated issues like notebooks and notes at the same level inside the same container...

Evernote really can't change its APIs. There are hundreds of integrations with these which rely on the APIs being rock-solid. This is a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, you can be fairly sure that the legacy apps will still work fine 20 years from now, on the other hand, Evernote just can't do a number of new things.

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6 hours ago, Mike P said:

What is your source of this data? A relatively small number of vocal users of these forums does not constitute "the vast majority of users". I agree with @ehrt74 they'd just complicate things and if you want a hierachical structure  tags do a really good job.

LOL, you are living in fantasy land. There's a reason many note apps have nested notebooks. And even among EN users, this is a highly requested feature for as long as Evernote has been around.

Telling me about tags is preaching to the (very tiny) choir. I have no desire for nested notebooks, and use very few notebooks, and do not use notebooks to categorize by subject matter, but I also recognize that I am in a tiny minority of users.

No less an authority than the current CEO has said that only 2% or 5% (I think he's used both figures in different comments post v10 release) of users are using tags. He wasn't referring to nested tags, but tagging in general. I think it's safe to assume that nested tag use is going to be a small fraction of general tag use. 

2 hours ago, Brian Handscomb said:

Nested notebooks IMHO don't "make sense" (a book inside a book) and very quickly raises complications, but I could imagine the scenario where you might have a group of books that you could "collapse" like a folder in a file system navigator and you could maybe put groups into groups if you really wanted, and from a tech point of view you'd add a piece of metadata to the notebook called "parent" which old clients could ignore, then make a new class of object for the groups. Providing clients ignore unknown metadata fields (or maybe the API has a way of telling whether or not to include that bit of data) it should be possible to implement without breaking old clients.

By having groups ONLY containing groups and notebooks you avoid breaking and complicated issues like notebooks and notes at the same level inside the same container...

By golly, you better tell Microsoft and Apple they're doing it all wrong with their folders inside folders and allowing folders to contain both files and folders. The horror! 

6 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

Nested notebooks ain't going to happen. it would break existing clients (of which there are hundreds). Nor would I want nested notebooks -- they'd just complicate things.

 

Ah, now we're getting to the crux of the matter, and the entire point of my earlier post. We have a highly requested feature that much of the competition implements, we have a new app in need of a big 'win', we have a new CEO who clearly isn't wedded to tags (in contrast to Phil Libin), and 10(?) updates into v10, we still don't have nested notebooks. Why not? Probably because it would break old clients.

There are few things I'm more certain of regarding Evernote's future than that the green elephant will get nested notebooks. It's just a matter of moving users off the old clients. Right now they are constrained because v10 is such a disaster, but once most of the significant bugs have been removed and the feature set has been enhanced to put it near the same level as Legacy, EN is going to force the hand of the Legacy stragglers.

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2 hours ago, Brian Handscomb said:

Nested notebooks IMHO don't "make sense" (a book inside a book)

Too skeuomorphic; notebooks and tags are simply metadata fields, and could be named anything

>>maybe put groups into groups if you really wanted

I've been looking at the Devonthink product
No Notebooks - just Groups (with Tags being a special type of Group)

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1 hour ago, tavor said:

 

LOL, you are living in fantasy land. There's a reason many note apps have nested notebooks. And even among EN users, this is a highly requested feature for as long as Evernote has been around.

Telling me about tags is preaching to the (very tiny) choir. I have no desire for nested notebooks, and use very few notebooks, and do not use notebooks to categorize by subject matter, but I also recognize that I am in a tiny minority of users.

No less an authority than the current CEO has said that only 2% or 5% (I think he's used both figures in different comments post v10 release) of users are using tags. He wasn't referring to nested tags, but tagging in general. I think it's safe to assume that nested tag use is going to be a small fraction of general tag use. 

By golly, you better tell Microsoft and Apple they're doing it all wrong with their folders inside folders and allowing folders to contain both files and folders. The horror! 

Ah, now we're getting to the crux of the matter, and the entire point of my earlier post. We have a highly requested feature that much of the competition implements, we have a new app in need of a big 'win', we have a new CEO who clearly isn't wedded to tags (in contrast to Phil Libin), and 10(?) updates into v10, we still don't have nested notebooks. Why not? Probably because it would break old clients.

There are few things I'm more certain of regarding Evernote's future than that the green elephant will get nested notebooks. It's just a matter of moving users off the old clients. Right now they are constrained because v10 is such a disaster, but once most of the significant bugs have been removed and the feature set has been enhanced to put it near the same level as Legacy, EN is going to force the hand of the Legacy stragglers.

No, no, no.

A file system (and i think you probably want to refer to Unix rather than "apple" and "microsoft") is not a note-keeping application.

There are literally hundreds of existing clients. Moving customers from evernote #LASTVERSION to evernote #CURRENTVERSION wouldn't help here.

Evernote cannot break legacy. I'm not sure how many times I have to keep saying this. Breaking legacy could only happen if there are changes in the API.

Most customers I imagine are using a number of notebooks and then search for the notes they need.

I also imagine that technical has configured sharding so that the contents of a single notebook are always on the same shard. This trick gets more difficult to pull off if you are allowed to nest notebooks as deeply as you want.

This is the problem with big data: changes have an immense cost.

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Currently notebooks don’t exist as an independent entity. Each note belongs at any time to exactly one notebook (and be it the trash notebook). A notebook can contain many notes, which only means many notes can point to the same notebook. This relation is called 1:n.

All functions, all searches are build around this. When you create nesting, you need to build an independent „superstructure“ of notebooks. Which means you need to rewrite probably the whole code base, clients and backend (server software).

Frankly I’ve had enough of this during the last 6 months for probably the next 10 years.

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1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

All functions, all searches are build around this. When you create nesting, you need to build an independent „superstructure“ of notebooks. Which means you need to rewrite probably the whole code base, clients and backend (server software).

Do you think EN rewrote the entire codebase for v10 and NOT build in a pathway to add nested notebooks? 

If Libin was still the CEO, I would find that plausible. With Small, a CEO who claims that only a tiny minority of the userbase uses tags, I find it impossible to believe.

The writing is on the wall. Evernote will get nested notebooks.

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1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

you need to build an independent „superstructure“ of notebooks.

Using Tags as a model   
1) Add field Parent-Notebook to the records in the Notebook table    
     (replaces the Stack feld)    
2) Modify the UI to use the nesting (replaces the Stacks code)

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The new Evernote is not that terrible, however there is some glaring thing that still stand out.

Take a look at this:

 

M39W0eP.png

 

They put a picture of a colour wheel in the UI, as they know that colours are important for marking and highlighting areas.

 

Yet only give you like 5 options of colours, not even a yellow, that is in the colour wheel icon!

And they took away colours we once had! I'm sure Microsoft Word 98 had colour wheel and hex 0-255 choice!


Why???

 

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Seems we have topic drift here from the heading: "Hate the new Evernote"

I do hate the new Evernote and just uninstalled it, using Revo Uninstaller and at the same time deleted all the amazing junk left behind by the various versions over the years with "Search Everything", (an essential free app) .

(Why can't any developers write and uninstaller that takes off *everything* they have piled onto people's machines over a number of versions?  Seems few can, thus the market for Revo and the need to hunt the last scraps down manually.)

The major reason I uninstalled *everything* was that after I installed the newest version of Evernote to try, I was finding Edge would restart itself in a small window every time I shut it down and since the only thing I had done before that started was install Evernote, I guessed that a faulty installer had left a call to  Edge active and that call was never cancelled.  (I was right).

All I left was the database.  Then I rebooted. and installed the legacy version which thankfully is still available. 

I had tried the preview some time back, tried it, and found it lacking, so I had uninstalled it and continued with the original version until the other day when I was concerned about the lack of updates and installed the latest version, assuming it must be better by now.  Wrong. Very wrong.

I gave it a fair try, but found it very awkward and counterintuitive.  Too much hunting and clicking.  Bad visual organization, lacking customizability, flexibility, or even an options panel!

Search was not finding all items then I'd find a filter on invisibly, one I had not set, recently anyhow. 

I was away from fast cheap Internet and waited until I was on high speed to take a chance and purge the computer and roll back to the tried and true version. 

Today I did the deed and my fears of a glitch or data loss proved unfounded.  Everything works like before and Edge behaves properly now.

If Evernote continues in the current direction, I'll have give up my premium subscription and find an alternative but as long as the old version is secure and operates, I'll likely stick around.  I think, though, that EN would be smart to continue a bit of work on that old branch to ensure security in light of any developing threats because it is well-loved.  Also, if the database needs altering, altering the old version or an up/down converter might be a solution to incompatibility. 

The mention of the web client I read above above was interesting to me because it presents a way to watch the new version without installing that kluge on my machine.

Thanks, folks, for all your comments. 

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4 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

Evernote cannot break legacy. I'm not sure how many times I have to keep saying this. Breaking legacy could only happen if there are changes in the API.

 

12 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

Nested notebooks ain't going to happen. it would break existing clients (of which there are hundreds). Nor would I want nested notebooks -- they'd just complicate things.

 

I'm surprised at how certain you seem to be. I don't see why Evernote couldn't choose to break compatibility with legacy one day. They may choose not to, but it's not as if they are opposed to breaking user workflows and making big changes (witness v10 desktop rolling out in all its bug-filled and feature-removed glory, without even officially offering legacy at first! Not to mention the v10 mobile clients where Evernote has chosen not to offer an easy/official way to roll back to the legacy apps.

Additionally, a few years ago an Evernote developer/PM commented that they wanted to do nested notebooks but there were some deep architectural limitations that prevented them from doing so. As part of the lead-up to V10, the EN back-end underwent some deep architectural changes to allow them to do things that were not previously possible, and I'd be shocked if that doesn't include nested notebooks.

I don't personally have a need for them, but many people want them, and it's a continuing source of surprise and friction to new users who are used to that way of thinking (nesting documents deep into trees of folders in Dropbox and Google Drive, for example). Tags are great, but a smart product owner doesn't try to fight their customers' preferences unnecessarily. If tag usage is truly as low as Ian Small has indicated in recent interviews, then adding notebook nesting strikes me as smart.

Before I started using tags, I too was irritated that Evernote didn't support notebook nesting. I've long-since moved on to tags, but clearly not everyone has done the same.

 

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41 minutes ago, Paul A. said:

 

I'm surprised at how certain you seem to be. I don't see why Evernote couldn't choose to break compatibility with legacy one day. They may choose not to, but it's not as if they are opposed to breaking user workflows and making big changes (witness v10 desktop rolling out in all its bug-filled and feature-removed glory, without even officially offering legacy at first! Not to mention the v10 mobile clients where Evernote has chosen not to offer an easy/official way to roll back to the legacy apps.

Additionally, a few years ago an Evernote developer/PM commented that they wanted to do nested notebooks but there were some deep architectural limitations that prevented them from doing so. As part of the lead-up to V10, the EN back-end underwent some deep architectural changes to allow them to do things that were not previously possible, and I'd be shocked if that doesn't include nested notebooks.

I don't personally have a need for them, but many people want them, and it's a continuing source of surprise and friction to new users who are used to that way of thinking (nesting documents deep into trees of folders in Dropbox and Google Drive, for example). Tags are great, but a smart product owner doesn't try to fight their customers' preferences unnecessarily. If tag usage is truly as low as Ian Small has indicated in recent interviews, then adding notebook nesting strikes me as smart.

Before I started using tags, I too was irritated that Evernote didn't support notebook nesting. I've long-since moved on to tags, but clearly not everyone has done the same.

 

Indeed. It's as if he's only been here for a few months. EN has a long history of breaking workflows. What EN has shown repeatedly is if they believe they need to change something to stay relevant/competitive, they will do it no matter how much it disrupts things for their userbase. @ehrt74 I look forward to your sacred cow API being butchered. :P

Exactly - and none of the naysayers has addressed the point that the CEO himself is essentially saying that tags are a niche feature for power users. And everyone who has been here for more than a couple of months should know how much priority EN places on niche features used by power users. I'd bet a lot of money that Small doesn't view nested notebooks as similarly niche.

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7 hours ago, Paul A. said:

 

I'm surprised at how certain you seem to be. I don't see why Evernote couldn't choose to break compatibility with legacy one day. They may choose not to, but it's not as if they are opposed to breaking user workflows and making big changes (witness v10 desktop rolling out in all its bug-filled and feature-removed glory, without even officially offering legacy at first! Not to mention the v10 mobile clients where Evernote has chosen not to offer an easy/official way to roll back to the legacy apps.

Additionally, a few years ago an Evernote developer/PM commented that they wanted to do nested notebooks but there were some deep architectural limitations that prevented them from doing so. As part of the lead-up to V10, the EN back-end underwent some deep architectural changes to allow them to do things that were not previously possible, and I'd be shocked if that doesn't include nested notebooks.

I don't personally have a need for them, but many people want them, and it's a continuing source of surprise and friction to new users who are used to that way of thinking (nesting documents deep into trees of folders in Dropbox and Google Drive, for example). Tags are great, but a smart product owner doesn't try to fight their customers' preferences unnecessarily. If tag usage is truly as low as Ian Small has indicated in recent interviews, then adding notebook nesting strikes me as smart.

Before I started using tags, I too was irritated that Evernote didn't support notebook nesting. I've long-since moved on to tags, but clearly not everyone has done the same.

 

The Evernote API is used by thousands of clients, not just the official desktop and mobile softwares. There are hundreds of companies who have their whole workflow based on internal software which accesses Evernote's API. There is no way these will change. They are rock-solid.

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11 hours ago, tavor said:

Indeed. It's as if he's only been here for a few months. EN has a long history of breaking workflows. What EN has shown repeatedly is if they believe they need to change something to stay relevant/competitive, they will do it no matter how much it disrupts things for their userbase. @ehrt74 I look forward to your sacred cow API being butchered. :P

Exactly - and none of the naysayers has addressed the point that the CEO himself is essentially saying that tags are a niche feature for power users. And everyone who has been here for more than a couple of months should know how much priority EN places on niche features used by power users. I'd bet a lot of money that Small doesn't view nested notebooks as similarly niche.

Why are you actually here? Why do you 'look forward to my sacred cow API being butchered"? don't you have something better to do with your time than spend hours every day slagging off a software that you demonstratively do not use while all the time displaying your huge lack of knowledge of how software works?

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6 hours ago, Madflute said:

I am on Mac so I assume it Opt+Cmd+1 but that get me to the dashboard instead of all Notes.

You have quoted a very old post. To check the current keyboard shortcuts you can use ctrl-/ or you can now (from 10.9.10)  press the little keyboard icon at the bottom of the sidebar. The numbers work logically down the sidebar

alt-ctrl-1 Home

alt-ctrl-2 (all) notes 

alt-ctrl-3 is missing (probably reserved for tasks when that is released)

alt-ctrl-4 is notebooks - currently not working for me

alt-ctrl-5 is tags

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7 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

Why are you actually here? Why do you 'look forward to my sacred cow API being butchered"? 

Since switching to another note app as my daily driver, I've been spending less time here. Popped in yesterday because it occurred to me that v6 might be a holdup to nested notebooks and wanted to have that discussion. That said, I still have *thousands* of notes in Evernote, so of course I want to be here. Plus, it's entertaining watching the slow motion wreck that is v10 - hard to look away actually! We are witnessing in real time what could be a business school case study. Fascinating stuff, IMHO.

And of course we cannot rule out the possibility that EN management successfully navigates this rocky period and emerges with a world class note app. So that's another reason to stick around. At the end of the day, I want to use the best note app for my needs, and given that this has been Evernote for many years, it would be foolish to dismiss EN as a permanently lost cause.

As for your sacred cow API, I really couldn't have cared less until you expressed such supreme confidence that EN would never ever do anything that would adversely affect the existing API. My observations from using EN and being on this forum for years tells me that you are wrong. But we shall see! 

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32 minutes ago, tavor said:

Since switching to another note app as my daily driver, I've been spending less time here. Popped in yesterday because it occurred to me that v6 might be a holdup to nested notebooks and wanted to have that discussion. That said, I still have *thousands* of notes in Evernote, so of course I want to be here. Plus, it's entertaining watching the slow motion wreck that is v10 - hard to look away actually! We are witnessing in real time what could be a business school case study. Fascinating stuff, IMHO.

And of course we cannot rule out the possibility that EN management successfully navigates this rocky period and emerges with a world class note app. So that's another reason to stick around. At the end of the day, I want to use the best note app for my needs, and given that this has been Evernote for many years, it would be foolish to dismiss EN as a permanently lost cause.

As for your sacred cow API, I really couldn't have cared less until you expressed such supreme confidence that EN would never ever do anything that would adversely affect the existing API. My observations from using EN and being on this forum for years tells me that you are wrong. But we shall see! 

"my sacred cow". Do you actually know what an API is? To the best of my knowledge Evernote has never deprecated an API. Never. How could your observations from using EN possible tell you that this is imminent? And moreover why are you so gleeful about the possibility of it happening?

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1 hour ago, ehrt74 said:

"my sacred cow". Do you actually know what an API is? To the best of my knowledge Evernote has never deprecated an API. Never. How could your observations from using EN possible tell you that this is imminent? And moreover why are you so gleeful about the possibility of it happening?

Yes, my use of APIs is mostly in Google Sheets (via GAS). And you'll be shocked to know that sometimes the API's change, breaking the scripts that use them. Nothing is forever, not even green elephants and their APIs.

"Glee" is the wrong term. We have differing views on the sanctity of EN's existing architecture. I merely look forward to having my view vindicated. B)

Anyway, as I jumped back in to discuss the potential relationship between v6 and when we might see nested notebooks in v10, having done that, I'll jump back out. See you in April, unless something really interesting happens before then.

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1 hour ago, ehrt74 said:

Do you actually know what an API is? To the best of my knowledge Evernote has never deprecated an API. Never.

I've made extensive use of scripting with the local APIs   
(no longer supported in the Version 10 product)    
Third party Backupery also uses those APIs

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10 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

The Evernote API is used by thousands of clients, not just the official desktop and mobile softwares. There are hundreds of companies who have their whole workflow based on internal software which accesses Evernote's API. There is no way these will change. They are rock-solid.

1) It's possible that they find a way to add nested notebooks in a non-breaking change.

2) Even if they don't, companies deprecate and change old APIs all the time. Just because Evernote has not done so recently does not mean that tomorrow they couldn't announce a change. With enough advance noticed the other users of the API will adjust.

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6 hours ago, Mike P said:

You have quoted a very old post.

Yes, sorry about that. This forum doesn't send out notification when my post has a response even though I have email notification selected in my profile.

Thank you for ⌘+/ shortcut. To my surprise, ⌘+1~9 is already assigned to random notes. How can I edit them? I can't find "edit shortcut" option. Thank you for your help.

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Ever since upgrading to the newest version of Evernote, as a paid user for several years.

I am ditching this broken piece of trash for good,.

My god, I don't even know where to begin. As a UX manager to begin with, there is ZERO chance the product team at Evernote isn't fully aware that they are releasing completely useless, bug-riddled trash whenever they push out an update.

Let's see, in half an hour today I found 4 or 5 notes that will not open on the Android app. All I get is a blank page whenever I try and view the contents. One or two of these are OFFLINE notes. The Android app is unbearably slow.

Aside from that, I edited a note today that is VERY long (been working on this file for weeks), Now when I log into Evernote there are 4 copies of the SAME file, each with different versions of itself, all conflicted, with no chance of me being able to decipher which of these files has which parts I edited today. Now I have to manually dig through this file in order to pick out the unique and most up-to-date parts of it. This is flat out unacceptable.

Aside from the fact that the Evernote text editor is the absolute text editing tool in the HISTORY of text editing tools ever created, and the fact this app is so riddled with bugs and horrible user experiences, I am ditching it and I will never pay for this service again.

Evernote continues to be my #1 example for every "What is the example of a company with the WORST User Experience you've ever seen?”

There's no contest that Evernote wins that contest every time.

I am sure there are a lot of "fan boys" who will jump all over me for saying these things, but I don't care. If this company had any concerns for their users they would not issue such a garbage product to us.

I am simply looking for alternatives to migrate away from Evernote over the next few months so I can uninstall and shut it down for good!

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Where you told you wouldn’t know where to begin, you missed your chance to stop.

Good luck in your search for alternatives - there are several threads in the forum about this. Conclusion: Pick whatever makes you feel good.

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3 hours ago, Madflute said:

Thank you for ⌘+/ shortcut. To my surprise, ⌘+1~9 is already assigned to random notes. How can I edit them? I can't find "edit shortcut" option. Thank you for your help.

ctrl 1-9 aren't assigned to random notes they are assigned to the first 9 shortcuts in your shortcuts list. You can change the order of the shortcuts by dragging them around in the sidebar. I've never found this very useful because I don't normally remember the number and I'm quite happy to point and click. I guess it does help those people who like ot do everything using the keyboard and not touch the mouse at all.

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4 hours ago, Paul A. said:

1) It's possible that they find a way to add nested notebooks in a non-breaking change.

2) Even if they don't, companies deprecate and change old APIs all the time. Just because Evernote has not done so recently does not mean that tomorrow they couldn't announce a change. With enough advance noticed the other users of the API will adjust.

generally companies support their paying customers and evernote has some very large paying customers who need a stable API. There are hundreds of companies out there whose internal tooling depends on the stability of Evernote's API. To the best of my knowledge, Evernote has _NEVER_ deprecated an API.

That being said, maybe they will find a way to add nested notebooks, though I find it unlikely.

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Deleted one note - 5 seconds. Deleted 10 notes - 50 seconds. Are you using a single rest call for each deletion? Serially? Sorry - have been using evernote for 10 years. You managed to convice me to switch in days : (.

Edited by LeakyMemory
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Whatever happened to Evernote...

Atlas view gone, external links don't work, internal links went from clear text to indecipherable links... and more.

After many years I am seriously look for an alternative 

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If the demise of Atlas is your problem, you took a while to find out.

For the links, EN is continuously improving the new clients. I have never seen so many releases as in the last 6 months, and with each one new features were added.

If you are still missing a key function, you can install and run the legacy client side by side:

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On 3/14/2021 at 1:00 PM, ehrt74 said:

evernote has some very large paying customers who need a stable API.

No snark, out of interest who might they be?

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> For the links, EN is continuously improving the new clients. I have never seen so many releases as in the last 6 months, and with each one new features were added. 

I sure have not seen anything I consider better or would want except may be better editing and I never lasted long enough to In trying a new version to find out if in fact the editing is better. 

> If you are still missing a key function, you can install and run the legacy client side by side:

Why would anyone ever do that?  Evernote is a tool, not a toy, for me at least.

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2 hours ago, allendick said:

> For the links, EN is continuously improving the new clients. I have never seen so many releases as in the last 6 months, and with each one new features were added. 

I sure have not seen anything I consider better or would want except may be better editing and I never lasted long enough to In trying a new version to find out if in fact the editing is better. 

> If you are still missing a key function, you can install and run the legacy client side by side:

Why would anyone ever do that?  Evernote is a tool, not a toy, for me at least.

How does that make it a toy?

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On 3/15/2021 at 9:00 PM, PinkElephant said:

If you are still missing a key function, you can install and run the legacy client side by side:

 

This is incredible! I am truly ecstatic! Everything I have been suffering since the new Evernote is gone. All the Notes are opening with any latencies. 50+MB PDF are displayed. Work Chat is working as it used to be. This is truly incredible. Thank you! Thank you!

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5 hours ago, allendick said:

> If you are still missing a key function, you can install and run the legacy client side by side:

Why would anyone ever do that? 

Because currently legacy is the only version that runs flawlessly!

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8 hours ago, allendick said:

> If you are still missing a key function, you can install and run the legacy client side by side:

Why would anyone ever do that?  Evernote is a tool, not a toy, for me at least.

Because if you analyse the situation (new client with bugs and missing features with very frequent updates running alongside an old client that is still fully operational) you realise that most companies would describe V10 as a long term open beta. Once you realise that, you can relax and choose to use V10 if you want to or continue to use the fully operational old client (AKA legacy). EN have done themselves no favours in the way they have communicated this. If users realise that they have a choice and that V10 is very much a work in progress which they can participate in if they want to, it is a perfectly reasonable process.

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1 hour ago, Mike P said:

Because if you analyse the situation (new client with bugs and missing features with very frequent updates running alongside an old client that is still fully operational) you realise that most companies would describe V10 as a long term open beta. Once you realise that, you can relax and choose to use V10 if you want to or continue to use the fully operational old client (AKA legacy). EN have done themselves no favours in the way they have communicated this. If users realise that they have a choice and that V10 is very much a work in progress which they can participate in if they want to, it is a perfectly reasonable process.

Why use legacy version while mobile version of evernote is v10 and is buggy as hell...? What benefit has legacy version when you cannot use the product in a 2021 workflow... 

Evernote f*cked up big time for the users / customers who use their product within productivity workflow. Why pays €7 / $8 a month for only some basics features.. Nope... the whole EV stack is unstable and cannot be trusted. Wish I could write something positive, but i can't, new releases created new bugs again this week (android and W10)

Fortunately already switched to competitor, using EV as static DB until end of subscription.

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7 minutes ago, ArjenC said:

Why use legacy version while mobile version of evernote is v10 and is buggy as hell...? What benefit has legacy version when you cannot use the product in a 2021 workflow... 

Evernote f*cked up big time for the users / customers who use their product within productivity workflow. Why pays €7 / $8 a month for only some basics features.. Nope... the whole EV stack is unstable and cannot be trusted. Wish I could write something positive, but i can't, new releases created new bugs again this week (android and W10)

Fortunately already switched to competitor, using EV as static DB until end of subscription.

What do you mean by "cannot use the product in a 2021 workflow"?

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52 minutes ago, ArjenC said:

Why use legacy version while mobile version of evernote is v10 and is buggy as hell...? What benefit has legacy version when you cannot use the product in a 2021 workflow... 

I hadn't actually considered the mobile issue - I haven't updated them  so I am using the old versions. I understand that many people have no choice but to update and you cannot then go back. Mobile use (especially at the moment) is a very small part of my EN usage.

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33 minutes ago, ehrt74 said:

What do you mean by "cannot use the product in a 2021 workflow"?

In year 2021 most people use mobile, different devices throughout a normal (working)day. Legacy is only a dedicated fixed version on one win/mac device and in modern way of working you will use different devices.

So it fixes only one device, the one with the legacy system if you can install it yourself. In companies this is not always possible. Even my software to keep up with the latest versions, wants to upgrade legacy Evernote.

And if this one device is fixed you use the V10 version on web or mobile, and these aren't bug free either. Why all the hassle in reverting versions when you know that part of your day you'll need to use the buggy apps.

Legacy only works if you are using 1 personal devices which you can control yourself. Like home pc/laptop/mac.. standard usages for storing some data for future references.. recipes / receipt.. 

But when you are depending on information at the moment you need it, Evernote fails again and again with version 10. 

Example: try finding document on mobile version when you are in a meeting and need some reference. Goodluck, once started (hopefully you don't receive a update) it is slow, opening attachment doesn't always work or even displays empty files. And yes, rebooting or reinstalling fixes it. But comone...

If it was only on my devices I could blame it on the user of the application, but have several colleagues and friends with same issues. Android / IOS / MAC / WIN all suffer issues, one more than the other.

Sorry 😒

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Maybe we use different apps ...

v10 on iOS is quite fun since 10.5. Works good, no severe issues any more. Only restriction: Slow on older devices. To the example above: My experience is that search works, and v10 is very fast compared to the versions before.

If I need my stuff independent from the quality of the internet connection, I download it, and be done. Works in flight mode, and is a good move when the internet connection is bad or intermittent like on a train.

v10 on the Mac does about 70% of what I do there. For the last 30% I still rely on legacy. This gap is closing with every release, currently top on my list are import folders for my scans, and improved support for multi-note-operations. It will never be „the same“ as legacy (the terminated features are known), but on the other hand it gains features that were not present on v10. Give and take, IMHO it is an improvement over the glacial development of the app before.

It will probably take some more release cycles on the Mac until I can easily stop using legacy.

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After trying to live with EN 10 on my Windows machine for the last few days, and after trying it three previous times, I've again gone back to the legacy version again. There are some small bugs that I could live with in the new version, but the lag issues continue. I know EN is working on the speed issues and I hope hope they get it figured out soon.

I read from a Level 3 member, wondering why people don't just move to another solution and stop whining. That's a fair question, but I think I can shed some light on that. I have been a power user of EN for 10 years and have found NOTHING that even comes close to it's capability and it's ability to keep things at my fingertips, no matter where I am or what device I am using. It still is the best solution for my needs, even if we had to stay with V 10. 

It would be fair to say that our frustration and discord arise from the fact that something that we've depended on for many years, is no longer dependable in the ways we need. And feeling like we're not being heard by EN is very frustrating. It's like loving someone for many years, only to find out they don't love you anymore. Yeh, it hurts and we're wondering how we move on. The response is visceral and emotional, only because it has been such an important part of our lives, for so long. If we didn't care, we'd shut up and move on. 

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Agreed, and well said, pgbobs

For me the GUI and lack of customization iin 10 is the deal breaker  The new GUI is hard to navigate and what i need is hard to access.  I am a mouser and shortcuts are a pain, especially since some may be in use by other software.

I only use the mobile app to consult content already in the files and to make small modifications.  Content creation takes place on a laptop. So the changes in the Android app don't bother me much.

I like the old GUI and have been able to adapt it to my needs.  I have made good use of the options in the legacy version but when I tried the new kluge, I could not find any way to reproduce my essential settings and found that simple tasks became difficult.

At that point, I cleaned computer of all residues from Evernote versions and the junk left behind and installed the legacy version.  I doubt I'll be tempted to try 10 again but am actively looking for something that works for me. 

 

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After 5 month of agony, finding out I can go back to Legacy version was ecstatic. Since yesterday, I am back to my happy Evernote life! All the lost functions are back, and the performance is back!

Now I am very curious. Can someone pitch me what's so great about the new Evernote ( Mac desktop version) about? I don't see it. To me, nothing about this new version is good.

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1 hour ago, Madflute said:

After 5 month of agony, finding out I can go back to Legacy version was ecstatic. Since yesterday, I am back to my happy Evernote life! All the lost functions are back, and the performance is back!

Now I am very curious. Can someone pitch me what's so great about the new Evernote ( Mac desktop version) about? I don't see it. To me, nothing about this new version is good.

Officially v10 is the only "supported" version. So I guess it has that going for it. The company has it own sound reasons for the shift to v10 but customer satisfaction doesn't seem high on their list. Releasing v10 in such an unfinished state has been pretty much a disaster.

You should bear in mind the company has clearly stated that they are making the Legacy version available for download but it is no longer a supported product and will only be available until v10 had reached some unspecified feature set. So your ability to download Legacy could end at any time. Are they specific on how long Legacy will be allowed to work or which Legacy features v10 will eventually support? No. Indeed, we've already seen some features are trimmed back substantially. So now some people who depend on particular Evernote features are using Legacy but also tracking v10 in hopes the beta period will end with it having the features they want/need.

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2 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Maybe we use different apps ...

Unfortunately we Android users have a different situation. I find the app almost unusable for editing and heavy text entry. The Android app is fine for viewing existing notes, so users who have that as their primary workflow probably also think it's fine. 

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1 hour ago, rts said:

Officially v10 is the only "supported" version

The Legacy product is still supported for data sync purposes

>>You should bear in mind the company has clearly stated that they are making the Legacy version available for download

And stated users should continue to use the Legacy Product if Version 10 interrupts the workflow
(Legacy download is only available for the Window/Mac platforms)

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6 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

What do you mean by "cannot use the product in a 2021 workflow"?

Pretty simple if I understand the question, what I could do in my 2020 workflow pre V10 I can not do in 2021. 

Mostly based on the desktop functional deficiencies (not to mention SPEED) for my use case.  I mostly use the IOS version for lookup and minor editing/adding so the improvements to date have made it passable though still a bit press heavy when not using shortcuts or saved searches. 

So Legendary desktop and V10 IOS and rarely 5.33 Browser for me.  Business as usual until Legendary sunsets, at which point there will or will not be agitation.  Hoping for the latter.

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3 minutes ago, DTLow said:

The Legacy product is still supported for data sync purposes

>>You should bear in mind the company has clearly stated that they are making the Legacy version available for download

And that users should continue to use the Legacy Product if Version 10 interrupts the workflow
(Legacy download is only available for the Window/Mac platforms)

Oh, there's no question that Legacy works. For now. It could continue to work fine for another decade or HQ could hit a kill switch tomorrow. But if you started having syncing problems tomorrow is there any doubt in your mind that making a support request would result in anything other than "You need to upgrade"?

In addition to Legacy for Macs and PCs the company has also (inadvertently) introduced Android users to the joys of sideloading as their route to a Legacy equivalent. I'm not sure if that qualifies as a public service or not.

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There is a conversion script online I used at one point to import Evernote database into OneNote but never did follow up. I figure if I have to learn a new product it won't be Evernote 10 unless there are big changes from what I see.

Considering how long this project has been underway and how little progress has been made, I have very serious doubts about Evernote's future. 

I don't understand the reasons for the complete GUI overhaul.  Maybe some routines needed updating and maybe some new routines and options could be added, but from my perspective the only major issue was the editing of notes.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Evernote has lost its way IMO, anyhow.

 

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47 minutes ago, rts said:

But if you started having syncing problems tomorrow is there any doubt in your mind ...

Tomorrow???   
I have no doubt that the Legacy product will be available for download and supported tomorrow

I have no doubt this support will stop at some point in the future   
At that time (or before), I will switch products
Our expectation/hope is the Version 10 product will be ready for general use; I'm monitoring the progress

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Well, I will not consider installing 10 again until I hear here that people love it and it is full-featured. 

Installing various versions with bad uninstallers leave a mess on my computer.  Besides, for me, Evernote is for working, not for trying and  tinkering .

Until I get the 'all clear' I am looking for an alternative that resembles the functionality of Legacy.  10 is not it.

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From another thread I have taken the information that we have the first legacy casualties: It was posted there that legacy is not running on M1-Macs, not under Rosetta 2 either. Can’t confirm due to a lack of the proper hardware - donations are welcome 😇

Probably the legacy programming is to special to be translated to the ARM platform.

So for everybody on a new Mac, it is v10-time. Which of course means as well, that without the new clients, nobody on a new Mac could even use EN (except the web client).

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1 hour ago, Paul A. said:

Unfortunately we Android users have a different situation. I find the app almost unusable for editing and heavy text entry. The Android app is fine for viewing existing notes, so users who have that as their primary workflow probably also think it's fine. 

I'm very happy with the v10 android app. it's a lot better than the old version for me.

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1 hour ago, allendick said:

There is a conversion script online I used at one point to import Evernote database into OneNote but never did follow up. I figure if I have to learn a new product it won't be Evernote 10 unless there are big changes from what I see.

Considering how long this project has been underway and how little progress has been made, I have very serious doubts about Evernote's future. 

I don't understand the reasons for the complete GUI overhaul.  Maybe some routines needed updating and maybe some new routines and options could be added, but from my perspective the only major issue was the editing of notes.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Evernote has lost its way IMO, anyhow.

 

Evernote was a fundamentally broken product before v10. The web client was a joke, the mobile clients barely worked. Now the web client and android clients have much more functionality than before and are getting close to the desktop clients. This is immense progress in a very short time, and it would have been impossible had they not bitten into the sour apple and started from scratch with a unified app.

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1 hour ago, rts said:

Oh, there's no question that Legacy works. For now. It could continue to work fine for another decade or HQ could hit a kill switch tomorrow. But if you started having syncing problems tomorrow is there any doubt in your mind that making a support request would result in anything other than "You need to upgrade"?

In addition to Legacy for Macs and PCs the company has also (inadvertently) introduced Android users to the joys of sideloading as their route to a Legacy equivalent. I'm not sure if that qualifies as a public service or not.

Why do you think that Evernote could 'hit a kill switch' even if they wanted to? The Blackberry OS client works fine and that was last updated in 2015. As long as the client speaks correctly with the Evernote API it will continue to work, and the Evernote API is rock solid.

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There are a lot of official versions of the desktop clients you can download just by finding announcement posts on this forum... When I get back to working in my actual office I'll be happily "reverting" to using the installed v5.x Mac client for at least a while longer, and my personal Android phone has a v8.x client I think (thankfully can't run any v10)... These have been perfectly stable and usable for a very long time (Mac v5 a very very very ling time) and in terms of the Evernote service I would be VERY surprised if something broke them... But... I know v5 Mac breaks on Big Sur (crashes on launch), and v6 isn't that much better (some note lists don't work and the editor is odd), but it's not Evernote breaking these, it's the underlying OS... v7.x is okay, though every so often one of the helper apps crashes, but the app itself is as "okay"... Just same bunch of annoyances that I've had when trying v6/v7 before... tables that auto size to just a bit wider than edit window for example... No boundary between the note title and note content...

There are a few other third party apps using EN's API I have my eye on, so when my Mac life turns Big Sur throughout I'll probably switch away from official Mac apps... Found two that use Qt to allow multiple platforms to be based on the same code (one on EN's arguments for the rewrite) and I already use one on Linux... Wish EN had gone down the Qt route as I believe that could allow Mac, Windows, iOS and Android apps to be built from the same compiled code, leaving just the web client as "different"...

For people who point to the release "velocity" by the way, including EN themselves, I'm one of those people that think it's a bad thing... IMHO... I would much rather a heavily properly tested FEATURE COMPLETE release once or twice a year than a series of hasty half-baked releases... Let me get used to things... Along those lines... the "Home" feature... released as a "starting place", so still work in progress as I understand it, and in the FAQ is the question, can I disable it? No says the answer... Remember Context? A "missing feature" for some in v10... Introduced in v5.7 IIRC and for me it added clutter to the window so I turned it off... fancy that... a feature added that you can disable simply by going to the application preferences window... ;)

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9 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

It will never be „the same“ as legacy (the terminated features are known)

Would you be so kind as to point to a location where the terminated features are listed?

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3 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Right inside the „what is new ...“ articles on the EN help landing page:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us

There is one document for each client. You have to go a little down in the articles, leaving the marketing chitchat behind. The list „features no longer supported“ is probably not complete, but these features are gone for good.

Thank you kindly, @PinkElephant!

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21 hours ago, DTLow said:

Tomorrow???   
I have no doubt that the Legacy product will be available for download and supported tomorrow

I have no doubt this support will stop at some point in the future   
At that time (or before), I will switch products
Our expectation/hope is the Version 10 product will be ready for general use; I'm monitoring the progress

We are in violent agreement on almost all points. The difference seems to be you define "support" along the lines of "it was working the last time I checked" and I define it along the lines of a product warranty. Your Windows XP computer in the attic might still "work" but that doesn't mean you should expect support from Microsoft.

 

21 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

Why do you think that Evernote could 'hit a kill switch' even if they wanted to? The Blackberry OS client works fine and that was last updated in 2015. As long as the client speaks correctly with the Evernote API it will continue to work, and the Evernote API is rock solid.

The API being rock solid doesn't mean jack if you rely on access to servers you don't control. Evernote has shown they can add and kill program features and subscription terms whenever they wish. Hell, Ian Small's opinion of tags seems to have changed in the short time since the initial v10 release. A stable API is no guarantee of future support for application features or existing workflows. Or Legacy client access for that matter.

Of course there's always a chance that the trust you, PinkElephant, and other loyalists demonstrate is justified. I might be unduly skeptical of the customer support to be expected of an erstwhile sock company. Time will tell.

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1 hour ago, rts said:

We are in violent agreement on almost all points. The difference seems to be you define "support" along the lines of "it was working the last time I checked" and I define it along the lines of a product warranty. Your Windows XP computer in the attic might still "work" but that doesn't mean you should expect support from Microsoft.

 

The API being rock solid doesn't mean jack if you rely on access to servers you don't control. Evernote has shown they can add and kill program features and subscription terms whenever they wish. Hell, Ian Small's opinion of tags seems to have changed in the short time since the initial v10 release. A stable API is no guarantee of future support for application features or existing workflows. Or Legacy client access for that matter.

Of course there's always a chance that the trust you, PinkElephant, and other loyalists demonstrate is justified. I might be unduly skeptical of the customer support to be expected of an erstwhile sock company. Time will tell.

You seem not to know what a rock-solid API is. Evernote has show that they do not change their API. The desktop and mobile clients are not the only things which use Evernote's API. Changing them is just not an option.

How do you think Evernote will stop a legacy client connecting to the API?

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On 3/10/2021 at 9:08 AM, jmshrrsn said:

But being told to use the legacy version is like spending £30k on the latest spec GTi and then being told to drive last year's model.

Boy prices sure are higher for EN in the UK. Must be a Brexit thing. 

:) 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yes yes yes! Evernote is completely ruined. I keep using it less and less. I just don't have free time to test alternative software, but now it's SUCH A PAIN to use the new interface. Absolutely horrible update.

 

Before that Evernote was flawless, very good and so positively affected my life. But now I suffer when use it. Make a option to use old interface or fork a branch. 

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I deliberately made an account so that I can add my voice.  The upgrade, which I have now been forced into using, is abysmal.  This is, without a doubt, the worst change to any piece of software I have ever seen in my entire life, and I work with software for a living.  The newer version is slower, has a worse layout, has bugs every few minutes, and does NOTHING new that I ever wanted.  Oh, and features that used to work are now broken.  I tried to like it, I really did, but this is garbage. 

Move to Clickup.  They actually care about their users.  

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That's exactly how I feel. I also used to think Evernote was great and postively affected my life. I find that I am using it less and less because I don't trust it anymore. I realize now that a time my come when I lose access to my documents. Already I can't scan things into the new evernote and no longer can use the search function on the legacy version. It's an awful situation.

 

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Come on, folks. Killing the performance FOREVER in exchange of some programming convenience. Isn't that bad enough?

As a developer, I'd never commit such mistake. 90% people are complaining about the performance and bugs. New Evernote is sluggish, filled with hang bugs (those bugs which the screen turns blank empty, and never loads). It's unusable.

I'm running the Legacy, since few alternatives are worth (Nimbus Note is better in features, but is as slow as new Evernote, being another bad Electron app). I Hope you, guys behind the scene, KEEP the Legacy app supported (I mean, working as it's) for the next 5 years. I'll keep paying and using the Evernote up until the both Legacy Android and Windows apps keep working fine. Later, I'll probably move to Joplin.

 

Thanks!

 

 

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23 hours ago, Matheus Bitencourt said:

Legacy Android 

 

Thanks!

 

 

Hello, where you will get Android Legacy?

I have installed a former version as describe above, but I cannot find a "Legacy" for Android

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As a 10+ yr user and premium user, the last draw to keep me on Evernote is the Legacy app on the Mac. I dont get why Evernote never ever listen? You're losing your loyal customers if that's not a sign, what is?

The last thing that i wanted to do is to leave Evernote, but if Evernote does not listen to the customers. Sadly people will leave and never come back.

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To the evernote team:

Please please please, for the love of all that is holy, keep supporting the legacy version of evernote until I get time to think about how to get all my data off of evernote.  I have paid you many hundreds, if not thousands of dollars over the years, hoping that this paperless solution would last forever, if not a long time... isn't that what the "ever" in your product name is supposed to mean? 

Keep supporting the legacy version for a while.... the least you can give me is that.

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On 4/3/2021 at 7:25 PM, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:

It is not difficult to parse and ingest exported enex

Or export in html format, which generates separate note records in html format, readable by any browser app

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19 hours ago, KevinPauli said:

To the evernote team:

Please please please, for the love of all that is holy, keep supporting the legacy version of evernote until I get time to think about how to get all my data off of evernote.  I have paid you many hundreds, if not thousands of dollars over the years, hoping that this paperless solution would last forever, if not a long time... isn't that what the "ever" in your product name is supposed to mean? 

Keep supporting the legacy version for a while.... the least you can give me is that.

1. Legacy is already an unsupported version.

2. It's only still compatible with EvN servers' API, but this can change any moment...

3. Legacy can also stop working because of some new upgrades to Windows or Mac (some say Legacy doesn't work with Mac's M1 processor...)

BTW EvN mostly doesn't listen to the voice of this forum. Moreover, begging a commercial company for a mercy is pathetic...

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On 4/3/2021 at 9:11 PM, Matheus Bitencourt said:

Come on, folks. Killing the performance FOREVER in exchange of some programming convenience. Isn't that bad enough?

As a developer, I'd never commit such mistake. 90% people are complaining about the performance and bugs. New Evernote is sluggish, filled with hang bugs (those bugs which the screen turns blank empty, and never loads). It's unusable.

I'm running the Legacy, since few alternatives are worth (Nimbus Note is better in features, but is as slow as new Evernote, being another bad Electron app). I Hope you, guys behind the scene, KEEP the Legacy app supported (I mean, working as it's) for the next 5 years. I'll keep paying and using the Evernote up until the both Legacy Android and Windows apps keep working fine. Later, I'll probably move to Joplin.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

Hello, Matheus:

Would appreciate your comments on the pros and cons of Joplin vs. EN Legacy.

THX.

 

OTHERS' COMMENTS:
Trying out Joplin, here's a fair assessment of my experience so far - Evernote General Discussions - Evernote User Forum

(1) I successfully migrated from Evernote to Joplin. For people who're in search of Evernote replacement and want to give Joplin a try, AMA! : Evernote (reddit.com)

 

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2 hours ago, Kolmir said:

1. Legacy is already an unsupported version.

...but it is still working,  and Evernote have said that they'll keep it going for the time being.  There's no clue when that might stop - but then you have the choice either to update or move. And Evernote 10.10 seems to be here a few months after the first launch. Who knows? It might even be usable in a couple more releases. Meantime agonising over what might happen is just wasting time - your computer might crash / your service provider go bust / you could get hit by a bus.  All you can do is deal with what actually happens...

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5 hours ago, gazumped said:

...but it is still working,  and Evernote have said that they'll keep it going for the time being.  There's no clue when that might stop - but then you have the choice either to update or move. And Evernote 10.10 seems to be here a few months after the first launch. Who knows? It might even be usable in a couple more releases. Meantime agonising over what might happen is just wasting time - your computer might crash / your service provider go bust / you could get hit by a bus.  All you can do is deal with what actually happens...

Come on... EvN is known to broke promises... 😉

And assessing risks, i.e. what may or may not happen and relevantly mitigate threats is a pretty useful business activity.

And with EvN 10.x I experienced some of my precious data literally vanishing in front of my eyes...

Therefore, today my premium EvN membership expired. I'm happy and better suited with another tools for knowledge management.

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54 minutes ago, Kolmir said:

I'm happy and better suited with another tools for knowledge management.

Entirely your decision of course.  Just saying that -for the moment- there is no greater threat or risk from Evernote than anywhere else.  If they make a decision to close the server access it will be set months into the future - and that's when I'll start to worry.  Until then everything else is a distraction.

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58 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Just saying that -for the moment- there is no greater threat or risk from Evernote than anywhere else.  If they make a decision to close the server access it will be set months into the future - and that's when I'll start to worry.  Until then everything else is a distraction.

Nope. EvN communication under Ian Small is pretty inconsistent and incompetent. Many decisions are at least strange... No roadmaps, no timelines for beta, etc.

https://nimbus.nimbusweb.me/s/share/4244497/etd897m7ooisp1qmk0a8

https://discourse.joplinapp.org/t/roadmap/10897

Microsoft or Google inform about an end of a product development mostly years in advance, while keeping support of them for years.

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2 hours ago, Kolmir said:

Nope. EvN communication under Ian Small is pretty inconsistent and incompetent. Many decisions are at least strange... No roadmaps, no timelines for beta, etc.

https://nimbus.nimbusweb.me/s/share/4244497/etd897m7ooisp1qmk0a8

https://discourse.joplinapp.org/t/roadmap/10897

Microsoft or Google inform about an end of a product development mostly years in advance, while keeping support of them for years.

Since Joplin and nimbus are getting better and better in EN-import, the safest place for my notes is evernote 🙂

 

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On 4/3/2021 at 2:11 PM, Matheus Bitencourt said:

Come on, folks. Killing the performance FOREVER in exchange of some programming convenience. Isn't that bad enough?

As a developer, I'd never commit such mistake. 90% people are complaining about the performance and bugs. New Evernote is sluggish, filled with hang bugs (those bugs which the screen turns blank empty, and never loads). It's unusable.

I'm running the Legacy, since few alternatives are worth (Nimbus Note is better in features, but is as slow as new Evernote, being another bad Electron app). I Hope you, guys behind the scene, KEEP the Legacy app supported (I mean, working as it's) for the next 5 years. I'll keep paying and using the Evernote up until the both Legacy Android and Windows apps keep working fine. Later, I'll probably move to Joplin.

It's unlikely the "legacy" native clients will ever receive any further updates. At some point they will make sufficiently breaking changes to their API and/or the ENEX format that will render the legacy clients unusable — it is only a matter of time before this happens. There's already significant drift between them in terms of markup support.

One of the many things I can't quite understand about their idiotic strategy for v10 is the "one code base" argument. See, the thing is, there are still five different applications on three completely different framework/backend stacks (the iOS/Android mobile apps (React Native), macOS/Windows (Electron), and the web version). In each case, the node.js backend also differs substantially. Yes, there is some limited code reuse between the first two and between the later three in both the front end and the backend, but they are ultimately still developing for five major platforms that each require significant work unique to the platform with three completely different framework/backend stacks.

Sure, most of their development can now be done in JavaScript, but the trade-off for that is that their UI is no longer native (and they get the fun of having to put in quite a lot of work to re-implement functionality that somewhat mimics native behavior), their application gobbles down compute and memory resources to an absurd degree, and the performance is like molasses to boot (which is a particularly terrible sin in a note/productivity app).

To add insult to injury, after running absurdly brief preview and beta periods, during which they largely ignored the flood of alarmed feedback from the customers who were selected to act as preview/beta testers, they then forcibly foist this steaming pile of garbage onto their loyal customers that have been faithfully paying them upwards of $70/year (a number which has kept climbing) for their product (and had been fanatically evangelizing about it for well over a decade).

Then, to try to distract customers from the fact that this new app is a steaming pile of garbage that has lost 90% of its functionality, gained a huge number of new bugs, and now runs slower than a pig in molasses, they waste development effort on slapping together a new near-worthless bug-riddled "home" feature that nobody had asked for.

Yet fear not dear reader, for DTlow is here to whisper soothing lies about the status of v10 and wax enthusiastically about the relative gloriousness of the abandoned and unsupported legacy native apps, on whose backs this company attained the reputation that it has now ruined and the fanatical customer base that are now fleeing this sinking ship in dismay.

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6 hours ago, Garzfoth said:

Yet fear not dear reader, for DTlow is here to whisper soothing lies

Wow, that seems unduly harsh. DTLow has merely adopted the iffin'-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it approach to an established workflow using the Legacy version. That's a perfectly reasonable approach for some people. Others of us have found it time to move on and started exploring or actually migrating to other software. A mild sense of panic or being peeved can be useful if used to spur one to action. In any event, Ian Small's never seeing another dime of my money.

18 hours ago, ab1kenobee said:

Hello, Matheus:

Would appreciate your comments on the pros and cons of Joplin vs. EN Legacy.

Not addressed to me, but for what it's worth here are a few thoughts from someone who's shifted to using Joplin unless a feature of Evernote is absolutely needed. I mostly used Evernote to write notes, import PDF documents, and search through that information. On the writing notes part Joplin is perfectly usable and the search aspect is much faster than Evernote.

When it comes to OCR, however, Joplin is not (so far) a viable option. It's one thing to be able to insert a screenshot or attach a PDF to a note as a record for research, taxes, expense reports, etc. Creating a note that supports searching the text of a PDF or an image is a different matter entirely. Can you get around that limitation through external programs or the creative use of tags, sub-notebooks, etc.? Absolutely. Will that workflow be as easy as it used to be in Evernote? Probably not.

On the first few pages of this thread you can read people's woes because their fonts and carefully tweaked note formats were altered by v10. I'd be surprised and happy to discover they've found alternatives that didn't muck with their carefully crafted note designs. I'm not optimistic about their options. Certainly Joplin is not that alternative.

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12 hours ago, Kolmir said:

Nope. EvN communication under Ian Small is pretty inconsistent and incompetent. Many decisions are at least strange... No roadmaps, no timelines for beta, etc.

https://nimbus.nimbusweb.me/s/share/4244497/etd897m7ooisp1qmk0a8

https://discourse.joplinapp.org/t/roadmap/10897

Microsoft or Google inform about an end of a product development mostly years in advance, while keeping support of them for years.

I'm really not sure Evernote can stop the legacy apps from working. The evernote API is rock solid, so much so that the blackberry OS client (which was last updated 6 years ago) still works just like it ever did. If the legacy apps stop working it will be because the OS manufacturer through incompetence or malevolence breaks stuff so the app cannot run anymore (e.g. apple with the new chips).

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6 hours ago, Garzfoth said:

It's unlikely the "legacy" native clients will ever receive any further updates. At some point they will make sufficiently breaking changes to their API and/or the ENEX format that will render the legacy clients unusable — it is only a matter of time before this happens. There's already significant drift between them in terms of markup support.

One of the many things I can't quite understand about their idiotic strategy for v10 is the "one code base" argument. See, the thing is, there are still five different applications on three completely different framework/backend stacks (the iOS/Android mobile apps (React Native), macOS/Windows (Electron), and the web version). In each case, the node.js backend also differs substantially. Yes, there is some limited code reuse between the first two and between the later three in both the front end and the backend, but they are ultimately still developing for five major platforms that each require significant work unique to the platform with three completely different framework/backend stacks.

Sure, most of their development can now be done in JavaScript, but the trade-off for that is that their UI is no longer native (and they get the fun of having to put in quite a lot of work to re-implement functionality that somewhat mimics native behavior), their application gobbles down compute and memory resources to an absurd degree, and the performance is like molasses to boot (which is a particularly terrible sin in a note/productivity app).

To add insult to injury, after running absurdly brief preview and beta periods, during which they largely ignored the flood of alarmed feedback from the customers who were selected to act as preview/beta testers, they then forcibly foist this steaming pile of garbage onto their loyal customers that have been faithfully paying them upwards of $70/year (a number which has kept climbing) for their product (and had been fanatically evangelizing about it for well over a decade).

Then, to try to distract customers from the fact that this new app is a steaming pile of garbage that has lost 90% of its functionality, gained a huge number of new bugs, and now runs slower than a pig in molasses, they waste development effort on slapping together a new near-worthless bug-riddled "home" feature that nobody had asked for.

Yet fear not dear reader, for DTlow is here to whisper soothing lies about the status of v10 and wax enthusiastically about the relative gloriousness of the abandoned and unsupported legacy native apps, on whose backs this company attained the reputation that it has now ruined and the fanatical customer base that are now fleeing this sinking ship in dismay.

For me as an Android and Web user, evernote has never been better. It has more features and is more stable than ever before. Also behaviour is now consistent between the apps and the rate of development is 10 times higher than it used to be.

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2 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

For me as an Android and Web user, evernote has never been better. It has more features and is more stable than ever before. Also behaviour is now consistent between the apps and the rate of development is 10 times higher than it used to be.

For my workflow, I also prefer the windows V10 in dark theme now above the legacy version except for the missing import-folder and html export

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2 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

I'm really not sure Evernote can stop the legacy apps from working. The evernote API is rock solid, so much so that the blackberry OS client (which was last updated 6 years ago) still works just like it ever did. If the legacy apps stop working it will be because the OS manufacturer through incompetence or malevolence breaks stuff so the app cannot run anymore (e.g. apple with the new chips).

That is the strength of EN: eml is a strong well defined xml format,  described in a xml scheme. This can't be said from other note apps where less standardized export formats are used (joplin...)

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51 minutes ago, eric99 said:

That is the strength of EN: eml is a strong well defined xml format,  described in a xml scheme. This can't be said from other note apps where less standardized export formats are used (joplin...)

Yep. many people here think that evernote is a desktop application. for companies it isn't. Evernote is a stable and reliable implementation of the evernote APIs, and companies have their own in house workflows which connect directly to these APIs. If Evernote ever changed these APIs in a manner that is not backwards compatible, they would literally no longer have a customer for their product.

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19 hours ago, Kolmir said:

I'm happy and better suited with another tools for knowledge management.

Hello, Kolmir:

Which tool have you decided to migrate to... and why?

THX.  ~ Alan

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3 hours ago, ab1kenobee said:

Hello, Kolmir:

Which tool have you decided to migrate to... and why?

THX.  ~ Alan

Hi Alan,

You can find main info in this post

Why?

Apple/Google/MS are big firms, maybe a bit slow but stable/reliable enough. With clear rules about support and app lifecycle. And I like/respect their CEOs.. 😉

Moreover, Apple Notes and OneNote are still native apps, fast, and UX-friendly. Their workflows are more appropriate for my goals/needs, i.e. knowledge management and R&D. For example OneNote hierarchy is especially useful to me with: Notebooks/Sections/Note-pages and few levels of Subpages - which I can order as I like. Plus, after reopening ON always remember the exact place in every Section/page from the previous session - a small but nice thing. And many others adventages...

As a bonus: during import from EvN I rediscovered many old useful notes (which I forgot) and also found some new ways to utilize them better.

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9 hours ago, eric99 said:

That is the strength of EN: eml is a strong well defined xml format,  described in a xml scheme. This can't be said from other note apps where less standardized export formats are used (joplin...)

This would be a more relevant argument if people in this thread were complaining about XML or the API. But they aren't, are they? They're complaining about the client software and (especially) the poor decisions being made by Evernote the company. Your TLAs aren't magic shields that can protect you from Ian Small.

Your Joplin comment manages to be both ignorant and specious. The GitHub version of Markdown is widely used but even if Joplin used a lesser known version of Markdown I wouldn't care. Joplin's export options include HTML and PDF -- both of which I think you'll grant are reasonably standardized.

I suspect you also don't realize the advantages that the simple text format at the heart of Joplin provide: faster and more versatile searches than Evernote provides. If I want to drop a dubious equation into a note I can either take advantage of the included KaTeX feature and jot down "$$ \pi=22/7 $$" for a centered equation as found in books or simply "π=22/7" for inline text. Similarly, if I were to make notes on this thread I'd probably be using "バカ!" a lot. While both Evernote and Joplin allow the use of katakana in a note only Joplin will return search results. Unless you count Evernote's "No notes found" as a search result.

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Thanks to all who contribute to this thread.  Having tried the new Evernote a coupler of times and absolutely hated it, I am glad to see that alternatives are coming along. 

After more than a decade on premium, I am definitely leaving as soon as I see an easy escape, and thanks to folks here, I am seeing plausible exits opening up.  I did port to OneNote as an experiment but that did not work well.  Besides, even on a desktop, ON is very Internet and server dependent and as a consequence, unpredictable, and unresponsive at times, at least when I tried it and the way I was experimenting.

As I am watching, by promoting an alpha grade app lacking essential features and eliminating features I use daily,  Evernote is cutting its own throat, alienating its loyal user base. and foolishly filling in its moat, while lowering the drawbridge and making assaults on its' lead in the note business easier for newcomers.

In another decade EN will be history if this trend continues.   Any company so foolish as to offend and inconvenience its userbase the way EN has is not a company to entrust one's data to.

 

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10 hours ago, allendick said:

Thanks to all who contribute to this thread.  Having tried the new Evernote a coupler of times and absolutely hated it, I am glad to see that alternatives are coming along. 

After more than a decade on premium, I am definitely leaving as soon as I see an easy escape, and thanks to folks here, I am seeing plausible exits opening up.  I did port to OneNote as an experiment but that did not work well.  Besides, even on a desktop, ON is very Internet and server dependent and as a consequence, unpredictable, and unresponsive at times, at least when I tried it and the way I was experimenting.

As I am watching, by promoting an alpha grade app lacking essential features and eliminating features I use daily,  Evernote is cutting its own throat, alienating its loyal user base. and foolishly filling in its moat, while lowering the drawbridge and making assaults on its' lead in the note business easier for newcomers.

In another decade EN will be history if this trend continues.   Any company so foolish as to offend and inconvenience its userbase the way EN has is not a company to entrust one's data to.

 

If you were an Android or a Web user then Evernote had spent 10 years offending and inconveniencing you. v.10 is the first decent Evernote app for these platforms (the most used platforms in the world btw.) that i'm aware of.

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3 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

v.10 is the first decent Evernote app for these platforms (the most used platforms in the world btw.) that i'm aware of.

Hello ehrt74:

Considering the all too many shortcomings of v.10 listed in this thread by long-time EN Subscribers...

HOW do you justify writing: "FIRST DECENT EN APP" ???

From a practical usage perspective... kindly detail your thinking.

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I dropped in to see if the problems I'd been having were a one-off but clearly not - the current evernote is a disaster - too unstable for everyday usage. 

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2 hours ago, ab1kenobee said:

Hello ehrt74:

Considering the all too many shortcomings of v.10 listed in this thread by long-time EN Subscribers...

HOW do you justify writing: "FIRST DECENT EN APP" ???

From a practical usage perspective... kindly detail your thinking.

the web and android versions were a mess before v10. now they are a lot better.

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UPDATE - THIS EVENING WINDOWS 10 UPDATED ITSELF AND EN WEB STARTED LOADING FASTER - DOWN TO 25 SEC VS 45 SEC AND THREE REFRESHES. THAT'S A BIG IMPROVEMENT AND EN UPDATED ITSELF TOO - EN Web Client v 10.11.4 web 241
Editor: v121.2.15734 Service: v1.32.3 - works much better now! (still a lot slower than it used to be)

 

I'm a long term premium member. I mostly use the web client and the desktop (Windows 10) to work on my notebooks.

The web client is MUCH SLOWER than it used to be. I have to load the page 3 times in either Chrome or Edge to get it to load - and then it takes 10-15 seconds to show my notes. Overall, it takes almost 45 seconds to load to the Web Client since I have to refresh the page three times!

I've got nearly 5,000 notes, but I'm starting to clean them out using Legacy and export them while I still can. I have loved Evernote and promoted it to many of my friends. But, I do a lot of research, and I need a reliable note app that won't take away my favorite features! I like the Legacy app but it's only temporary and not being supported.

I'm probably switching to One Note since I already pay for Office. One Note for Windows 10 will let you dictate notes and I really like that feature.

 

Edited by Stories By Steve
add new info - update to web client
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I'd love to love the new EN.  I have been an evangelist for it in the past, but its reliance on web syncing all of the time means it is not as stable as it should be.  I am WFH today, so have good, fast internet. There have been no connection problems here today, but working in EN and suddenly a table I am working in disappeared and is replaced by an "Unable to Load" notification.

I tried closing, re-opening etc and eventually I got most of it back, but the table is one that I need to update on site tomorrow on 4G and I'm very worried that it will do the same again.  

I have been with EN as a Premium user since August 2013, so a lot of my personal and work life is in EN.  I have never had a problem with syncing or loss of data before. This is the second time since v10 that I have encountered this, and one of my main reasons to support EN was that it just worked.  Now it doesn't quite so well.

I want to be loyal, and not have to mess around moving stuff to other apps.  Onenote looks nice, but seems to lack some of the speed that used to be the USP of EN.  I have looked at Nimbus, and like the look, tasks features etc, but I am worried that my data will be somewhere in Siberia.

I really hope that there are upgrades soon as my subscription expires in May and at present I'm not inclined to renew.

 

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On 4/7/2021 at 7:13 AM, rts said:

Not addressed to me, but for what it's worth here are a few thoughts from someone who's shifted to using Joplin unless a feature of Evernote is absolutely needed. I mostly used Evernote to write notes, import PDF documents, and search through that information. On the writing notes part Joplin is perfectly usable and the search aspect is much faster than Evernote.

When it comes to OCR, however, Joplin is not (so far) a viable option. It's one thing to be able to insert a screenshot or attach a PDF to a note as a record for research, taxes, expense reports, etc. Creating a note that supports searching the text of a PDF or an image is a different matter entirely. Can you get around that limitation through external programs or the creative use of tags, sub-notebooks, etc.? Absolutely. Will that workflow be as easy as it used to be in Evernote? Probably not.

On the first few pages of this thread you can read people's woes because their fonts and carefully tweaked note formats were altered by v10. I'd be surprised and happy to discover they've found alternatives that didn't muck with their carefully crafted note designs. I'm not optimistic about their options. Certainly Joplin is not that alternative.

Joplin cannot OCR reliably PDFs (like Evernote legacy did) and due to single DB replicated to mobile isn't best solution for HUGE pile of data, BUT is perfect if you consider formatted text data, with speed superior to Evernote v10, provides unlimited nesting of folders and backups retain unique identifiers (as opposed to Evernote backups - links no longer works after restoring from backup!).

I use both Joplin and Evernote Legacy in paralel, but most of my new text entries go to Joplin, while attachment-heavy dumps go to Evernote.

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A big concern for me is the reliance on an Internet connection.  That is an issue with OneNote, too.

I am often out of coverage or in sketchy regions and the legacy desktop is perfect for me because I have all notes at hand locally.  The mobile apps are less useable that way and I have had problems when I tried changing a note to offline on the Android app.  Actually it would be nice to be able to have all the notes on my Android. I have lots of room. Maybe it is possible with one simple action?  Probably not.

Maybe developers think it is cool to keep moving things around, hiding actions in small icons, and adding and subtracting features seemingly randomly and updating with unexpected minor changes constantly,  but for users who expect to open an app, find it familiar and working as expected, such tricks are annoying. 

hen in a meeting and opening the app to see an important page and finding the app updated and  perhaps intercepting with a 'look at the new whatever' screen one realizes they have no clue what we actually need and want.

We (I) don't want useless 'home' screens and neat gimmicks. 

Guys like me just want the old familiar page customized the way we like it.  Sure there were issues like formatting and non functional forward and back features, but we've learned to live with that and hope for a fix. 

I don't see any way I will ever switch to ten.

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