Hate the new Evernote

[CalS 5,307]

My experience is that the import function of all the the other services I have tried (admittedly not that many) has failed to import all the notes in a 500 note test ENEX.  Could be a use case thing but worth a test if one seriously considers moving from EN.

[s2sailor 2,440]

I tried to import one of my local notebooks into Onenote, and it cranked away for over 8 hours.  Then after completion told me that about 1000 notes could not be imported.  I haven’t looked into this any further.

I tried Devonthink a year or so ago and that appeared to import everything flawlessly.  At least as best as I could tell with some cursory checking.  Since it is a Mac app, it is not a work solution for me, but I was interested in trying it out.

[PinkElephant 8,802]

The process is probably different: DEVONthink is AFAIK using an API interface to draw the notes directly from the EN server. From postings in the DT Forum this seems to work pretty flawlessly, since DT supports a similar logical structure, using tags as well.

Two things: As you mentioned, it is Mac only, and sorry guys, you need to buy it. No free ride on this train. Which probably renders it useless for the 85% of EN users who just want to put their notes somewhere, without giving a dam about how the show is sponsored.

For those on a Mac who need a new free place probably Apple Notes is a good option to check out. No tags, but pretty much of everything else.

[QFieldBoden 48]

12 hours ago, DTLow said:

Some services are able to import directly from the Evernote app, or from the .enex file

Personally, as part of my backups I run a weekly export in .html format
The notes are read-able using any browser app

Which services can import ENEX files directly and still retain the "structure" from Evernote  tags? What I'm looking for is a truly workable alternative system that allows ENEX files to be directly imported which does not then need a ton of work to get things into some kind of order.

I understand the ability to export as HTML but that's not really a good end point in terms of an electronic filing system.

I'm just trying to establish whether there really is a decent alternative to Evernote, which will quickly and easily digest ENEX files, my current belief is that there isn't.

[QFieldBoden 48]

11 hours ago, CalS said:

My experience is that the import function of all the the other services I have tried (admittedly not that many) has failed to import all the notes in a 500 note test ENEX.  Could be a use case thing but worth a test if one seriously considers moving from EN.

That is my impression also, I'm glad it isn't just me!

[QFieldBoden 48]

11 hours ago, s2sailor said:

I tried Devonthink a year or so ago and that appeared to import everything flawlessly.  At least as best as I could tell with some cursory checking.  Since it is a Mac app, it is not a work solution for me, but I was interested in trying it out.

Devonthink is not something I've looked at, I might check it out, thanks.

[DTLow 5,744]

12 hours ago, s2sailor said:

I tried Devonthink a year or so ago and that appeared to import everything flawlessly.

Another vote for Devonthink (Mac only)    
It's my exit plan A
Warning: tags are converted correctly, but hierarchy is lost and poorly supported    
Also, for Blade Runner fans - there are replicants 🙂

[Piotas 128]

14 hours ago, QFieldBoden said:

I know what you mean about being able to get your notes out of Evernote by exporting ALL notes to a single ENEX file, I do that as a backup.

Dumping ALL your notes into single ENEX file doesn't save your folder structure. If you import this one XML file, you will have a big pile of notes in one folder.

Not useful backup option for me as I use about 20 folders to organize thousands of my notes.

[Piotas 128]

1 hour ago, QFieldBoden said:

Which services can import ENEX files directly and still retain the "structure" from Evernote  tags? What I'm looking for is a truly workable alternative system that allows ENEX files to be directly imported which does not then need a ton of work to get things into some kind of order.

I used ENEX files to import my current notes to Joplin.

Only element missing is tree structure of tags, as Joplin currently uses flat tags approach, but - as opposed to Evernote - has tree structure of folders.

Joplin is very good for text notes, not so useful if you dump many / big attachements info your workflow - BECAUSE current state of Joplin mobile app replicates ALL notes, there is not partial replication implemented (yet).

[s2sailor 2,440]

2 hours ago, DTLow said:

Warning: tags are converted correctly, but hierarchy is lost and poorly supported

I think those that made heavy use of tag hierarchy in Evernote, and want to maintain that, will have more of a challenge finding an app replacement without some restructuring first.

[Wanderling Reborn 186]

3 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

I think those that made heavy use of tag hierarchy in Evernote, and want to maintain that, will have more of a challenge finding an app replacement without some restructuring first.

Those who want a direct replacement of Evernote, should stick with Evernote. The same goes for pretty much any other note taker save for uncategorized plaintext notes. 

[ek12 14]

6 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

I think those that made heavy use of tag hierarchy in Evernote, and want to maintain that, will have more of a challenge finding an app replacement without some restructuring first.

10+ year Evernote paid user here.  I have found Devonthink to be feature-complete (and in many cases superior) in tag hierarchy and management.  

Full disclaimer: Plenty of other tradeoffs to consider and I haven't made the full leap yet.  But have spent a month trialing DevonThink in parallel, and it does tagging better.

[Piotas 128]

2 hours ago, ek12 said:

10+ year Evernote paid user here.  I have found Devonthink to be feature-complete (and in many cases superior) in tag hierarchy and management.  

Full disclaimer: Plenty of other tradeoffs to consider and I haven't made the full leap yet.  But have spent a month trialing DevonThink in parallel, and it does tagging better.

There are other downsides: DevonThink is platform-locked: APPLE only, a complete showstopper for me as I do not use and do not intend do use Apple devices.

[ek12 14]

23 minutes ago, Piotas said:

There are other downsides: DevonThink is platform-locked: APPLE only, a complete showstopper for me as I do not use and do not intend do use Apple devices.

Yup. this is true DT is Apple only.  I am all apple and do not use or intend to use anything non Apple, so this is not a showstopper for me

[toao 148]

17 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

The process is probably different: DEVONthink is AFAIK using an API interface to draw the notes directly from the EN server.

it turns out DevonThink does not take the data from ENs servers but instead from the local database of the mac "legacy" client. this allows it to keep not only the notebooks and tag structure intact, but also import all the local, i.e. non synced notebooks.

and it is keeping that local data local that was one of my key points for moving over to DT after the release of V10 in october (am very happy I switched). have summarized my experience over there in case somebody is interested: https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/moving-from-evernote-to-devonthink-in-2020/59211

[marianomartene 0]

Didn't read all the conversations (obviously). 
Just came here before leaving Evernote to check if I was the only one who was hating the new version.

 

[PinkElephant 8,802]

Obviously you are (alone, I mean).

For me anyhow there is much too much hate in the world. Hate is making faces ugly, breath smelly and minds dark.

And most haters hate themselves above all.

So in short - hate is for losers, electionwise and else.

Have a nice day, stay safe !

[Piotas 128]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

For me anyhow there is much too much hate in the world. Hate is making faces ugly, breath smelly and minds dark.

I just realized that I don't hate new Evernote; I am just a fan of older, better, fully-featured and fast Evernote.

Older Evernote (now called Legacy Evernote) spoiled me to the point that all competitive offerings are, in some aspect, of note taking, INFERIOR to Legacy Evernote.

Even Joplin I started to like so much doesn't have (yet) a reliable weblink to connect its notes from the world outside (for example: Google Contact links, external CRM solutions etc.) while Evernote delivers, with downside that new desktop app v10 is currently useless for me (due to conflict with default keyboard binding of PL-PL keyboard - I cannot type some letters without activating Evernote v10 actions like screenshot).

[PinkElephant 8,802]

We can all agree to this, I think.

Although the team at EN is working (hard or not is difficult to tell from the outside) on getting v10 off the ramp, finally.

They released iOS 10.3 these days, and it is working quite snuggly, much improved. In some features it tops the old client, like a nice editor, nested tags, better search and the like. Some more are still missing ´til feature parity, like mail a note, send business cards to contacts and search in pdfs - plus getting the Apple Watch App back.

On desktop, there is still more to do, but there is legacy as well to ease the worst pains.

Personally I tend to prefer encouraging the developers who are working to get it done, than blaming them for a premature release. I doubt that this decision was engineering-driven.

[CalS 5,307]

30 minutes ago, Piotas said:

Older Evernote (now called Legacy Evernote) spoiled me to the point that all competitive offerings are, in some aspect, of note taking, INFERIOR to Legacy Evernote.

YUP!

[MB11 17]

55 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Personally I tend to prefer encouraging the developers who are working to get it done, than blaming them for a premature release. I doubt that this decision was engineering-driven.

VERY good point. Thank you!

[tavor 668]

On 1/7/2021 at 7:47 AM, Piotas said:

Joplin is very good for text notes, not so useful if you dump many / big attachements info your workflow - BECAUSE current state of Joplin mobile app replicates ALL notes, there is not partial replication implemented (yet).

Tools > Options > Synchronization > Advanced Settings - change attachment download behavior to Manual. Only the attachments you select for download get downloaded to your mobile device.

[Mark - 2021 1]

Why are we surprised? Pretty much very new version since way back in the version 4 days has been horrible! I will say that this one takes the cake though. It's so dysfunctional, I had to take it off of my machine and go back to the previous version to even use it. (Thanks for offering the prior version by the way, I guess I should at least give credit for that.)

We seem to see this cycle over and over. Releasing software that is sooo bad it cannot even be used, then hoping it isn't updated to another train wreck before it's fixed enough to be functional again. We seem to only get about a year or two of useful software before it gets destroyed again in the name of a new revision.

Please understand, it is not that Evernote is the best software out there, it's the functionality that Evernote tries to convince is it can do, that is. Great design, horrible, horrible execution.

Is anybody listening? Please fix this. My life is in there. (I've tried to get it out, but the export function isn't working either.)

[avalon 11]

On 1/2/2021 at 4:57 PM, TaskClone said:

For the record, I don't think that's the major issue here.  I think the major issue here is some of the compromises needed to create a unified base across platforms given the limitations of the tools available.  Combine that with the limitations of beta testing such widely used software and POOR communications. 

 

The major issue for me is that they have released something that is almost unusable and riddled with bugs. I can no longer switch between notebooks without errors, half the time I open it the notebooks are empty, and they have removed the basic functionality of being able to drag/copy images - which I somewhat expect (and hope) is a bug. Thats not acceptable for a product that people are paying money for. It should have been rolled back by the company. Its been a long time now and issues that affect the basic stability and functionality of the app still have not been repaired.

[pcryan5 71]

=> Riggar

Sorry for the lame question - what version do YOU prefer and what version do you hate?

I’ve been off Evernote for the last year due to illness and trying to figure out what version to go forward with.

thanks!

 

[gazumped 12,063]

2 hours ago, pcryan5 said:

=> Riggar

Sorry for the lame question - what version do YOU prefer and what version do you hate?

I’ve been off Evernote for the last year due to illness and trying to figure out what version to go forward with.

thanks!

 

Don't be put off by all the negativity - the best option for you depends on a number of factors including your hardware, tech ability, network connection(s) and actual use case. 

Various new(ish) users have said the new version is great, and with the latest version iOS users seem happier with that option - although if you use iOS the update is NOT reversible.  With everything else you can try the new version*,  reinstall Legacy on Desktops, or even step back to the last public release if you find v10 too bad.

As always, the best way to decide is to try it out for real.

*on Android you may not be able to do that - the roll out seems rather slow...

[PinkElephant 8,802]

The Android situation is nothing related to EN.

While all iOS devices are tested for downward compatibility, plus receive a solid 5-6 year full OS upgrade, the situation is very mixed on Android. Very few (among them the Pixels) run a clean Android, some are „enriched“, and many come charged up with bloatware from their (Chinese) creators.

Usually nearly all iOS devices that are able to run the new OS get updated within a few weeks. This allows for an equally clean release strategy for apps. With Android, many devices are never upgraded, or only during a brief initial time slot. Probably many devices out there are simply not able to load the new EN client, and others have to wait for their phone manufacturer to release an adapted version of „their“ flavor of Android.

On iOS, it is simple: If your device can and does run iOS 13.2 as a minimum, EN v10 can be loaded and used. I could not make my backup iPhone 6 with iOS 12.5 load any version of EN, not the current and not the older app. So it is easy to find out whether EN on iOS is still for you, if you hold an older iPhone or iPad. With Android, it is probably not that easy to know.

[pcryan5 71]

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

Don't be put off by all the negativity - the best option for you depends on a number of factors including your hardware, tech ability, network connection(s) and actual use case.

Thanks very much for the note. I must say I’m glad to come back and discover folks aren’t arguing about the infamous price increase anymore. 😆

[PinkElephant 8,802]

Guys, c‘me on: It is the equivalent of a cup of to-go per month. So WTF, less coffee is even healthy.

[Piotas 128]

On 1/9/2021 at 4:07 PM, tavor said:

Tools > Options > Synchronization > Advanced Settings - change attachment download behavior to Manual. Only the attachments you select for download get downloaded to your mobile device.

In Joplin automatic attachement download is one thing, another is that it currently requires COMPLETE sync after new install or after moving your sync to different provider, and by COMPLETE I mean FULL sync, that after any interrupt restarts from very beginning. It may be unnoticeable for few notes, but with few thousands notes means you have to put your phone on charger, disable screen-off and wait a long time; the slower sync medium you choose - the longer.  Dropbox is fast, but WebDAV or NextCloud may be pretty slow. Any interrupt of initial sync (like answering a phone call) mean the sync is restarted from 0. This ensures that there are no conflicts but takes A LOT of time.

[kthesun 102]

I really wonder how EN is doing economically after this desaster. Are there still many people turning their free membership into premium?

The ratings in the App Stores turned very very bad, so it's very unlikely that we are a small, ignorable bubble that is unsatisfied how the product evolved while the vast majority doesn't care or is even happy.

At the same time I observe that EN started a -40% discount campaign on premium. I don't know if they do that always in January or if its a reaction on a decline in premium sign ups.

 

[Vidalia 23]

It will be hard for EN to do good financially now. Majority of people in the world don't need or use any cross platform note apps. EN user base is long tail, very few users use it heavily where as most users use it very sparingly.

I don't think EN is competing against its competitors like Onenote, Notion but EN is competing against all those who simply think apps like EN is not worth paying for.

Historically EN was good as 2nd brain because one could access all personal notes at work which was indeed beneficial for productivity.

However, this trend has seen 2 big changes.

[1] Many corporate organizations now block cloud notes like EN, ON etc. to prevent data leaking.
[2] People mostly working from home, so they can access their personal data anyway.

[DTLow 5,744]

17 minutes ago, Vidalia said:

Majority of people in the world don't need or use any cross platform note apps.

I'm thinking most people use multiple devices (desktop and mobile)
This can be addressed in the cloud, except when offline access is required

[PinkElephant 8,802]

Just a few ideas:

• Blocking EN is not that easy, because it is a web service. Of course an admin can disallow  all except a whitelist, but in general when port 443 is open, EN should work.
• Most mobile devices are able to support ENs offline data base for mobile clients. There are few cloud based note apps that can do the same.
• It is not important whether you are in the home office: The issue is not to have physical access, it is to find it when needed.

IMHO EN is well positioned to thrive in a new, more flexible work setup. They just need to get the v10-transition done. The newest releases are not „there“, but they are steps forward.

[jlady 9]

I admit to being puzzled by all the negativity around version 10, but maybe I'm not a power user. I fail to see what the "disaster" is.

• The tagging feature hasn't changed, and haven't found anything equivalent in another app for Windows 10 - OneNote doesn't even come close. I use Evernote primarily for saving tax-related receipts, and it continues to work well for that. I can scan directly into EN. Again, the tags, and the ability to nest tags is a great feature.
• The web clipper works beautifully. When I last tried this in OneNote, it was very inferior to EN.
• The note-taking capability has improved with the introduction of pre-defined headings.

My one complaint: When I scan receipts, I want the creation date to be the date of the receipt, not the date I scanned it. V10 makes it a bit more awkward to change the creation date.

[SimoneGBR 1]

Hi,

 

this is the first time I write on this blog. I'm using extensively evernote since few years.

I also find the new interface pretty irritating.

It is slow and not reliable, the old one was much more user friendly.

• tagging was better at the top of the note close to the notebook button
• the change notebook button is now smaller, every time I have to look for it
• the sidebar does not report anymore note counts for tags and notebooks, to view note counts it is necessary to access the specific interface for notebooks and tags
• etc

I could not find one single advantage in the new interface.

I am also considering to change platform

Hope this feedback helps.

[gazumped 12,063]

5 hours ago, jlady said:

I admit to being puzzled by all the negativity around version 10, but maybe I'm not a power user. I fail to see what the "disaster" is

Good for you - the only test around here is "whatever works for you" - so ignore the grumbling and enjoy your day!  🙂

[luvmyc6 46]

6 hours ago, jlady said:

I admit to being puzzled by all the negativity around version 10, but maybe I'm not a power user. I fail to see what the "disaster" is.

Wow, count yourself lucky. I’m glad the new version 10 is working for you without any issues.

However, there are many people, like myself, who are experiencing major issues, such as lost or corrupted data, or erroneously duplicated data, or broken workflow processes due to significantly reduced functionality (which have been well documented in these forums).

I do like the new version overall and have hope that things will continue to get better.

However I’m struggling right now with the integrity of my data, and therein lies my issue with EN version 10. I have spent a significant number of hours (months and months) collecting and refining my data in EN on a daily basis. I am having trouble with my data being corrupted. For example, the very first version of iOS 10.0 caused over 100 erroneously duplicated records within the first 10 minutes of doing edits after the upgrade, and these were hard to find. EN got this particular issue fixed in the next release (thank goodness), but I still have 4 phantom Notes that cannot be deleted. Now, even with iOS v10.3, I continue to get duplicated records periodically, when only doing edits on a single device. Therefore, I must be very diligent to constantly check my Notes count so I can catch these duplicates in a timely manner as there is no easy way to find them. I also have to keep using the legacy version on my Windows computer so I can easily do daily backups of my data in HTML format so I at least have my data in a human readable format in case I need to recover it.

[PinkElephant 8,802]

The first release of the EN iOS app was not what anybody expected, quite bad.

Regarding the corrupted notes, I had this problem twice, both from a sharing job that went bad. I could get rid of them by doing a "deep" uninstall job: Uninstall the app, dump all data, switch the i-device completely off, switch it on again (Apple logo must show), install the app from the AppStore, log in, let it sync completely. If this still does not do the job, you could try the same, with a forced restart (how to depends on the device you have, see Apple support https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/force-restart-iphone-iph8903c3ee6/ios ).

After this, I could delete the bad notes on the device where they were stuck, and this deleted them through normal sync on all devices.

Regarding duplicating, I luckily never had that problem. Maybe you need to go through a real uninstall on all devices, to allow the data bases to rebuild from the server. This means on a Mac use the app AppCleaner to really purge the existing EN data. On Windows there are similar tools, like the Revo Uninstaller.

Or decide on desktops to stick with legacy for the moment.

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052560314-Install-an-older-version-of-Evernote

[luvmyc6 46]

18 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Regarding the corrupted notes, I had this problem twice, both from a sharing job that went bad. I could get rid of them by doing a "deep" uninstall job: Uninstall the app, dump all data, switch the i-device completely off, switch it on again (Apple logo must show), install the app from the AppStore, log in, let it sync completely. If this still does not do the job, you could try the same, with a forced restart.

Thanks very much for your response. I have already done a “deep” uninstall job on my iPad as you described (delete app+data/i-device completely off with soft reset/wait/back on/install/sync completely). This solved a sync issue I had but the four corrupted Notes are still there. I’m not too concerned about them at this time. I only found them purely by accident when I did a search; they do not show up in a view, only in search results and only on my iOS devices. My main concern is how many other hidden corrupted Notes do I have that I cannot ever hope to find...???

[luvmyc6 46]

55 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Regarding duplicating, I luckily never had that problem. Maybe you need to go through a real uninstall on all devices, to allow the data bases to rebuild from the server.

The duplicating issue is actually conflict Notes that are being created while doing edits on a single device. For example, I’ll be editing a Note on my iPad. I go in, make some changes, click the save check mark, then the arrow to return to the view. Then I’ll go right back in to the same note, make more changes, then save and return to view. When I go back in for the third time, the note now tells me there is a conflict note, the edit time difference between the two notes is 1 minute. My guess is that the first edit event had not yet synched back to the server when I started the second edit event, so a conflict was generated when the second edit got synced overtop of the first edit. I usually try to make sure the green “needing to be synched” indicator in the corner is gone (by swiping down several times) before going back in to edit, so not sure why this happened. Lesson learned is to wait a few minutes before editing the same note in succession.

BTW, on my Windows desktop, I never did upgrade to v10, so I am still running the original v6.25 with the green icon.

[PinkElephant 8,802]

My 2 corrupted notes (created on different occasions) were deletable after doing the uninstall - cycle. Before I could delete them, but they were back within seconds.

Thanks about the hint about conflicting notes - never had that issue, even when switching between notes while editing. Do you have another device running at the same time, with an open EN client ?

[Joey4u 2]

Version 10 ist in not working as expected. Just two things that hinders me to be productive with this version:

1. check boxes are now list boxes: How clever is this decision from Evernote? - Things are working for years in a certain way. And now it is broken :-(

2. HTML-Desaster: On my MacBook articles are showing as "HTML" and then there aren't any changes possible. - In Windows (where I am not using version 10) everything looks ok.

   Now I am running the "legacy version" on my Mac an still everything is fine.

==> The version 10 (the "*****" version) will I never usee.

By the way: It 's the first time Evernote offers two version at the same time.

This is their way to handle the discontent users

[tavor 668]

On 1/10/2021 at 12:03 PM, Piotas said:

In Joplin automatic attachement download is one thing, another is that it currently requires COMPLETE sync after new install or after moving your sync to different provider, and by COMPLETE I mean FULL sync, that after any interrupt restarts from very beginning. It may be unnoticeable for few notes, but with few thousands notes means you have to put your phone on charger, disable screen-off and wait a long time; the slower sync medium you choose - the longer.  Dropbox is fast, but WebDAV or NextCloud may be pretty slow. Any interrupt of initial sync (like answering a phone call) mean the sync is restarted from 0. This ensures that there are no conflicts but takes A LOT of time.

Yeah, new device or new server syncs take a long time and are a hassle for mobile devices. The devs are aware, and are working on a Joplin server (available in pre-release form) that eliminates a lot of the overhead that Webdav uses. Probably not appropriate to post here, but a thread in the Joplin forum shows huge speed improvements in sync speed by eliminating the webdav overhead.

I moved to Drobox from Nextcloud for the sync speed, and am curious to try the Joplin server once they release and package in easy to deploy form for non-techies.

The plugin development pace is great (and has features EN does not - outline view, one-click backlink search and creation, note tabs (I believe EN Mac has tabs, but EN Windows never got this)), so I'm using Joplin for new notes while still having a foot in EN for my old notes and new web clips where Joplin's clipper doesn't get me the desired clip - EN's clipper is probably still best in class.

[luvmyc6 46]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

Thanks about the hint about conflicting notes - never had that issue, even when switching between notes while editing. Do you have another device running at the same time, with an open EN client ?

Due to the ongoing issues, I am very conscientious to always shut down the EN client when done with a session. I don’t leave any client running if not using it. I always make sure there is only one device running the client at a time. The most recent conflicts just happened a couple hours ago. For sure the client on my iPad was the only one runnning at that time. As I mentioned, the conflicts happened within 1 minute of editing the doc on a single device, with no other client running. That is why I think it has to do with the fact that since the database is no longer local, the sync is happening in real time over the network back to their server and one edit stepped on the other resulting in the conflict.

[PinkElephant 8,802]

Legacy is not there forever. It will die of old age, or more likely will be killed off one day by OS changes.

While testing v10 issues I got the impression that the server data base is already split in the background. If this is the case, it would be another reason to switch off legacy one day.

So better prepare, either to use a more mature v10, or an alternative.

[QFieldBoden 48]

2 hours ago, luvmyc6 said:

Due to the ongoing issues, I am very conscientious to always shut down the EN client when done with a session.......

With quite a large number of notes, a bit under 10,000, I've found using Evernote on iOS to be so slow and useless that I've completely abandoned even trying now and I have removed it from my iPhone and iPad completely. Used to work really well but now just useless so I've lost the "portability" of my information that I used to have entirely.

I'm now just running Evernote on an iMac and occasionally using the web so I've taken several huge leaps backwards from where I used to be. As far as I'm concerned if it's not quick and reliable it's useless, it then becomes a toy and a nuisance rather than a reliable tool. I'm hoping things get better but I'm not seeing any sign of them doing so, at the moment I'm just holding station but I've lost a lot of the value of Evernote that I'm paying for. Sad to me that we never seem to see any hard information from the developers about what's happening, unless I've missed something.

[Joey4u 2]

@PinkElephant: "Better be prepared" ... Yes I agree. But the decision of changing behaviour of functions becomes very bad.

The last time I struggled with this, was the new formatting when copying and paste of text (I guess one year ago): Whenever I did this with my E-Mail Code the line spacing is that much that I have to replaced this in Word: (^p with ^l) to copy this in Evernote.

This "list box"-desaster is just another step to ruin my belief in Evernote.  

[QFieldBoden 48]

Just trying to load Evernote on my iMac now, just won't load, utter rubbish.

[Piotas 128]

On 1/11/2021 at 4:26 PM, kthesun said:

At the same time I observe that EN started a -40% discount campaign on premium. I don't know if they do that always in January or if its a reaction on a decline in premium sign ups.

 

I have no problem with Evenote using aggresive marketing strategy to gain new type of causal user, but I find it funny / not professional that they were advertising Evenote to Polish users in Polish after v10 premiere, while V10 is USELESS / NOT READY for Polish market due to conflict of hardcoded key bindings with default PL-PL keyboard.

You may think twice before you start advertising a product that is useless for a certain market and ALL you can get is complaints and user frustration.

[PinkElephant 8,802]

@QFieldBoden For me the iOS client does work ok, just a small delay on opening the app (less than 10sec). On the iPad Air 2 of my wife it is slower, appr. 20sec until open, which is too long. But ok, this is old hardware, nearly end-of-life (still could update to iOS 14, but I think that is it now).

EN has announced a widget and the return of the Apple Watch App. Then it would not be necessary to first open the app to grab a quick note. 

What sort of iMac, and on which MacOS ? I have no problem running both legacy & v10.4.7 in parallel on my Mac (MBP 15“, BigSur).

[PinkElephant 8,802]

@Piotas Since when have the snake oil vendors in the marketing departments ever refrained from blasting humankind with sleazy promises ? 

Hope the devs meanwhile get their act together with EN settings, to give you some rest from bashing the poor guys on this oversight with the national keyboards.

In general: It is pretty standard for software companies to offer a solid first year rebate on conversions and upgrades. EN did this frequently in the past, and will probably continue to do so. The lesson for everybody is you may save 24 bucks if you are willing to wait.

[QFieldBoden 48]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

@QFieldBoden

What sort of iMac, and on which MacOS ? I have no problem running both legacy & v10.4.7 in parallel on my Mac (MBP 15“, BigSur).

High Sierra, 10.13.6 27" 2.8Ghz Intel i5, 16Gb RAM. Not a spanking new machine but Evernote should run on it and they haven't said it won't, everything else does!  Sometimes it loads, sometimes it doesn't but v10 always slow even when it does load. It was absolutely fine before the update. Legacy seems Ok, it's this new junk that's the problem.

[PinkElephant 8,802]

Running on Fusion Drive or on SSD ? Fusion Drive was already a problem with legacy clients.

Apple officially supports the last 3 operating systems. So since BigSur is out, HighSierra is out as well, but out of being supported. Usually this does not effect apps right away, but it may have an effect on newly released apps.

If I were you, I would probably run legacy plus issue a support ticket about v10. If EN wants to quit legacy one day, they need to give directions for Macs running older MacOS versions as well.

[luvmyc6 46]

2 hours ago, QFieldBoden said:

With quite a large number of notes, a bit under 10,000, I've found using Evernote on iOS to be so slow and useless that I've completely abandoned even trying now and I have removed it from my iPhone and iPad completely.

I am using iOS EN v10 on both my iPhone 12 and iPad Pro 10.5 (2017). I am in EN multiple times per day on one or the other device and I find the performance very tolerable. In fact, I even noticed a bit of an improvement with the recent 10.3 release. I have over 2,000 Notes in my app and use the search feature quite often, with reasonable performance.

[Piotas 128]

2 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

In general: It is pretty standard for software companies to offer a solid first year rebate on conversions and upgrades. EN did this frequently in the past, and will probably continue to do so. The lesson for everybody is you may save 24 bucks if you are willing to wait.

I am not claiming my money back because I use Evernote Legacy, till it syncs, I see no reason to ask for compensation/reimboursment. I really liked "old" Evernote app and service since I started using it in 2009 on PocketPC (Windows Mobile 5 and 6) and PC.

[Piotas 128]

7 hours ago, tavor said:

The plugin development pace is great (and has features EN does not - outline view, one-click backlink search and creation, note tabs (I believe EN Mac has tabs, but EN Windows never got this)), so I'm using Joplin for new notes while still having a foot in EN for my old notes and new web clips where Joplin's clipper doesn't get me the desired clip - EN's clipper is probably still best in class.

Joplin team is so fast, it takes hours to patch an issue, not weeks (like in case of Evernote); I use Joplin for new NOTES as well, but for HTML dumps (like grabbing current state of web page - my job consist of IT sales so I have to grab a lot of public tender pages etc) I still use Evernote, because I can dump there more MBs compared to Joplin.

[QFieldBoden 48]

3 hours ago, luvmyc6 said:

I am using iOS EN v10 on both my iPhone 12 and iPad Pro 10.5 (2017). I am in EN multiple times per day on one or the other device and I find the performance very tolerable. In fact, I even noticed a bit of an improvement with the recent 10.3 release. I have over 2,000 Notes in my app and use the search feature quite often, with reasonable performance.

I'm glad it's working out for you. Maybe having 20% of the notes and newer hardware Makes a difference. However when performance on Legacy = Ok and performance on v10 = ***** when on the same machine and the same database there is something badly wrong, as I think many of the comments illustrate!

[QFieldBoden 48]

3 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

If I were you, I would probably run legacy plus issue a support ticket about v10. If EN wants to quit legacy one day, they need to give directions for Macs running older MacOS versions as well.

I think TBH my course of action is pretty much decided. I'm now off iOS and just on my iMac. I'm going to just observe for maybe 3 months and see if Evernote get their act together and see if they come up something which satisfies me and many other users, something that at least delivers the same performance as what they replaced.

If things aren't moving in a far better direction I'm going to be reluctantly concluding that Evernote has had it's day and is in terminal decline and take the pain and maybe more to something like Notion which at least seems to be on the way up rather than on the way down. Notion is also half the price and their free version is also probably adequate for many users.

Evernote, in all honesty, has for some time now been on the way down, weighed down by bloatware and really going nowhere fast.

[ryan_mcguinness 1]

What happened?  This was my favorite app for years, now it sucks really really bad!! I relied on it as an extension of my brain.  Now the thing has had a stroke!  It's unusable.  It's slow, crashes and the layout is confusing.  This kills me!

[malex583 3]

OK, I’ve been patient. I’ve waited 3 months for some bug fixes to come along and... nothing. Since October my MacOS Evernote, my second brain, the core of my business where all my records are kept, no longer works. 

I click on a notebook... nothing in it. I click on a note... nothing in it. Click on inbox... nothing in it. It repeatedly tells me to “reload,” as though I’m using a flaky web browser and requires I reboot my Mac to access... THE INBOX!!! Or my client records!!!

No inbox? In Evernote?! You had one job.

I use Evernote for two reasons: reliability and good search. I require both. If you’re not going to fix it in the next month I simply can’t stay. I don’t want to leave, but you’re messing with my livelihood.

Please recognize what your customers are paying for and get back to delivering it.

best,

Mark

[oxuson 5]

On 10/20/2020 at 8:26 PM, gazumped said:

Hi.  You don't mention whether this is Mac, Windows or mobile,  but have you tried stepping back to the last public version?  v10 is pretty much a skeleton so doesn't display much,  but if your data still exists within Evernote (or you have a usable backup) you may find the Legacy versions are the best place to stay for a while... 

Thank you, @gazumped! This is a huge help! I was trying to tag several hundred notes, and the restriction of doing that just 50 notes at a time was excruciating. Also, I was trying to rename notes, and it was taking over a second for each new name to appear. And finally, the renaming was based on looking at the PDF, and each PDF was slow to show up. I've now moved back to the Legacy version on Mac, and these aggravations have disappeared.

[tavor 668]

It's fascinating watching Evernote's response and lack thereof, to this v10 slow motion train wreck. We have seen many paying subscribers complaining about v10, including many who are threatening to leave. The total lack of response on this forum or on reddit from EN (even if it's to encourage Premium subs to roll back to Legacy) is interesting. 

It suggests to me that the argument I made earlier (linked below) that EN (and their VC backers) don't really care about paying subs (right now) because their focus is on growing the userbase (because that's what will drive valuation) is essentially correct. EN's behavior certainly seems to comport with my thesis, does it not? Would love to hear from those who truly believe that EN's focus is on Premium subs - what is your evidence for this belief?

 

[gazumped 12,063]

2 minutes ago, tavor said:

Would love to hear from those who truly believe that EN's focus is on Premium subs

I'd be surprised if anyone believes Evernote has a focus at the moment... I did a little side research via ProductHunt: https://www.producthunt.com/discussions/do-you-use-notetaking-apps-which-one-would-you-suggest-and-why and Evernote still seems to be at the top of the list even for the most recent comments. 

The changes may have been traumatic for those of us who use the app as an essential part of our workflow - and didn't think to sidestep the update when it first arrived - but for the general run of user it seems OK.  

Evernote made some mistakes (which is like saying 'oops' after you hit the big red button) in launching as they did and how they did -  It may have seemed clear to them that they were launching a much cut-down version (which makes sense if you're piloting a brand new architecture) but it wasn't clear to anyone else.

They may have thought that the new wrapper process would make it easy to update and upgrade the app (they may have listened to the sales pitch!) but now find that with thousands of users screaming at the gates wanting everything fixed,  it's a tad harder to concentrate and deliver - but engaging with us is just going to take up someone's time when they could be coding;  so -again probably rightly- they're concentrating on working on what they got and avoiding all distractions. 

I wouldn't bet against some internal management panic too in that if they don't get this fixed investors are going to get worried,  at a time when there's plenty else to get worried about...

It would definitely have been nice if Evernote had done a 'yep - it was an error - go back to Legacy for a while as we fix this' type of thing... but then their lawyers probably said "and what about all those claims for refunds that will follow..."  which is probably what killed that thought.

[CalS 5,307]

@tavor

Not sure what EN's focus is at the moment other than remediating a dumbed down product in a standardized programming language.  Hard to fathom that this, as you put it, slow motion train wreck could be anywhere in the neighborhood of what they expected to achieve.  They've managed to miss the mark in quality and content, no mean feat.  Add lack of communications and you have the trifecta!

Still hoping they can fix this thing.  Meanwhile 6.25.1 is running sweet 

[DTLow 5,744]

46 minutes ago, tavor said:

their focus is on growing the userbase (because that's what will drive valuation)

I'm still confused on the "valuation"
In terms of "growing the userbase", this is already accomplished (over 200 million users)

[Paul A. 677]

12 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I'm still confused on the "valuation"
In terms of "growing the userbase", this is already accomplished (over 200 million users)

200 million users who cost them money, and perhaps a couple million paying users. Huge difference.

As for valuation, I agree with @tavor that valuation is undoubtedly an extremely important metric for the senior leadership and the board. Evernote is owned by investors, many of whom have been waiting a long time to get their money back. The only way they will do that is if they can either IPO or sell to a large software company for a princely sum.

Evernote's valuation is what determines whether they get to sell (or IPO, which still involves selling stock), and the faster that valuation is achieved the faster the faster they will sell/IPO and the faster investors will get to recover their investments.

[Paul A. 677]

1 hour ago, tavor said:

It's fascinating watching Evernote's response and lack thereof, to this v10 slow motion train wreck. We have seen many paying subscribers complaining about v10, including many who are threatening to leave. The total lack of response on this forum or on reddit from EN (even if it's to encourage Premium subs to roll back to Legacy) is interesting. 

It suggests to me that the argument I made earlier (linked below) that EN (and their VC backers) don't really care about paying subs (right now) because their focus is on growing the userbase (because that's what will drive valuation) is essentially correct. EN's behavior certainly seems to comport with my thesis, does it not? Would love to hear from those who truly believe that EN's focus is on Premium subs - what is your evidence for this belief?

 

I think you're right that valuation is very important, and I believe that they may have planned for and expected some short-term churn on Premium subscribers with the transition to a brand new software platform in v10. Where we (perhaps?) differ is that I believe Premium subscribers are extremely important, as valuation of freemium software like Evernote is based on paying subscribers and the conversion rate from free to paid.

So, while they may have been willing to briefly tolerate some declining metrics related to paid subscribers towards the end of 2020 and perhaps very early 2021, the company is bound to be under big pressure to grow their paid subscriber base this year.

[Vidalia 23]

Does EN disclose how many paid users it has got?

Typically the conversion ratio is very low, usually fewer than 5 in every 100. So if EN has 200 million total users, paid users probably 2 million roughly. It is still a very large number though.

But I'd still say, EN does not have any unique selling point as such. Behemoths like Google. Microsoft, Apple are offering notes for free and Onenote is a highly accomplished product. If you don't need to "edit" files frequently in mobile, Dropbox itself is a good proposition as you can "view" most common file types in Dropbox without any other apps.

[DTLow 5,744]

11 minutes ago, Vidalia said:

But I'd still say, EN does not have any unique selling point as such.

I think this more the immediate focus than "valuation"
The first step is to simplify/unify the delivery mechanism i.e the client code base.
After this is completed, we'll see the implementation of features (unique selling point)

[pzampino 0]

Ignoring the obvious usability changes for a moment, I submit that the macos version is unusable. After some period of time, if you switch to another note, no note contents can subsequently be loaded. You can select them, but you cannot view, nevermind modify, any note content.

While restarting the application does resolve this issue, it is a recurring problem, and should not be necessary. I've stopped using the desktop application at this point, and only use the mobile version, which seems to be much more stable.

[tavor 668]

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

It would definitely have been nice if Evernote had done a 'yep - it was an error - go back to Legacy for a while as we fix this' type of thing... but then their lawyers probably said "and what about all those claims for refunds that will follow..."  which is probably what killed that thought.

Perhaps. But ignoring the furor and not soothing concerns is going to leave Premium subs who are unhappy with v10 feeling quite salty - remember ~1/12 of them come up for renewal each month - are these people going to be motivated to pay for one of the most expensive note apps? From the posts I'm seeing here and at reddit (where the discontent far exceeds anything I've seen in the years I've been on this forum), I'd bet they are seeing the largest attrition of Premium subs they have ever seen.

1 hour ago, CalS said:

@tavor

Not sure what EN's focus is at the moment other than remediating a dumbed down product in a standardized programming language.  Hard to fathom that this, as you put it, slow motion train wreck could be anywhere in the neighborhood of what they expected to achieve.  They've managed to miss the mark in quality and content, no mean feat.  Add lack of communications and you have the trifecta!

Right, that lack of comms is going to give people whose renewals come up, some pause before forking over another $70.

1 hour ago, DTLow said:

I'm still confused on the "valuation"
In terms of "growing the userbase", this is already accomplished (over 200 million users)

I think that 200mm is cumulative signups. I'd be surprised if active weekly users is over 50mm or active daily users is over 20mm. Premium subs will be a very small fraction of active daily users.

53 minutes ago, Paul A. said:

I think you're right that valuation is very important, and I believe that they may have planned for and expected some short-term churn on Premium subscribers with the transition to a brand new software platform in v10. Where we (perhaps?) differ is that I believe Premium subscribers are extremely important, as valuation of freemium software like Evernote is based on paying subscribers and the conversion rate from free to paid.

So, while they may have been willing to briefly tolerate some declining metrics related to paid subscribers towards the end of 2020 and perhaps very early 2021, the company is bound to be under big pressure to grow their paid subscriber base this year.

I think where we differ is on timing. I don't think the focus will be on paying subs this year. In the future, for sure, but not this year. Again, I'm basing this on the behavior I'm seeing from EN.

51 minutes ago, Vidalia said:

Does EN disclose how many paid users it has got?

Typically the conversion ratio is very low, usually fewer than 5 in every 100. So if EN has 200 million total users, paid users probably 2 million roughly. It is still a very large number though.

But I'd still say, EN does not have any unique selling point as such. Behemoths like Google. Microsoft, Apple are offering notes for free and Onenote is a highly accomplished product. If you don't need to "edit" files frequently in mobile, Dropbox itself is a good proposition as you can "view" most common file types in Dropbox without any other apps.

I think active daily users is less than 20mm, and paying users is maybe 1mm at best. Just a guess.

Completely agree that EN has a market problem and where it is positioned in that market. @Wanderling Rebornposted a survey and he and I had a discussion around that starting with the following post:

 

The most interesting thing about that survey is that only 20% of the people who responded (presumably all active EN users) were daily users (and I would guess that most of the Premium subscribers are daily users). When you have a daily use product that only 20% of your users use daily, you have a problem - you may need different products - one to really cater to your daily use userbase and another (or multiple others) to cater to your less frequent users. One product cannot possibly maximize value for both portions of your userbase, and by sticking to one product, it may be more difficult to differentiate yourself from the numerous competitors (a problem EN didn't have several years ago when they essentially defined the space), especially the free options you note from the OS giants (MS OneNote, Apple Notes, Google Keep) - I agree with you that for people for whom the "second brain" idea isn't really important, any of these free alternatives will probably be fine and even Dropbox may suffice just to have some notes and documents synced across devices, as you note.

[HeBoIz 247]

1 hour ago, DTLow said:

I think this more the immediate focus than "valuation"
The first step is to simplify/unify the delivery mechanism i.e the client code base.
After this is completed, we'll see the implementation of features (unique selling point)

Totally agree, and how ShaneD's actual post shows, EN starts to announce delivering the first really new feature - with additional content only for paying users, to deliver unique selling points (the former - may be even by EN itselves - leaked "home"-dashboard:

see: 

 

[QFieldBoden 48]

16 hours ago, malex583 said:

I use Evernote for two reasons: reliability and good search. I require both. If you’re not going to fix it in the next month I simply can’t stay. I don’t want to leave, but you’re messing with my livelihood.

Please recognize what your customers are paying for and get back to delivering it.

I feel your pain and I couldn't agree more.

[PinkElephant 8,802]

There are some fixes announced with v10.6 for Windows and Mac.

Maybe you give it a try, and feedback if your problems were solved by this release. Would be good if such a PITA could finally be solved by updating.

[CalS 5,307]

33 minutes ago, HeBoIz said:

Totally agree, and how ShaneD's actual post shows, EN starts to announce delivering the first really new feature - with additional content only for paying users, to deliver unique selling points (the former - may be even by EN itselves - leaked "home"-dashboard:

The dashboard itself and ONE pinned note on that dashboard are new.  The rest exist in the old screen UI or saved searches or shortcuts.  All of which require no more than one or two clicks if one is still using the classic stuff.

It may help newbies I suppose who haven't developed their own workflows or someone who wants to see all the actual bits at the same time for some reason.  It seems to be a jump off page wherein you can't edit anything on the page other than maybe(?) the pinned note.

Waiting for 10.7 now.

[PinkElephant 8,802]

Not everybody will master advanced setup right away, so let us be positive about newbies (and others) getting a quicker start into how to use EN. I read about other features and fixes in v10.6, so I think there is enough to explore while waiting.

[HeBoIz 247]

2 minutes ago, CalS said:

It may help newbies I suppose who haven't developed their own workflows or someone who wants to see all the actual bits at the same time for some reason

But isn‘t this what we were talking about here the last hours as potential EN strategy? Just how to deliver enough values  and „unique selling points“ for new users and non power users to change from basic to premium?

This surely is no big thing or game changer for power users and no reason to upgrade to v10, but it is still a step forward in development.

[CalS 5,307]

59 minutes ago, HeBoIz said:

But isn‘t this what we were talking about here the last hours as potential EN strategy? Just how to deliver enough values  and „unique selling points“ for new users and non power users to change from basic to premium?

This surely is no big thing or game changer for power users and no reason to upgrade to v10, but it is still a step forward in development.

I know I am getting a bit caustic and I apologize for that.  My only excuse is that EN has/had such a great product and they just can't seem to get out of their own way.  I'm invested in EN and want to see them succeed for personal reasons if nothing else.  In the worst way.  Do not want to have to convert to something else.

IMO the V10 product in its current form is not worth $70/year.  I'm not sure how much a dashboard adjusts those economics.  Particularly when these forums are replete with premium user complaints of not only function loss but also of fails in performance and data integrity.  I can't even test the web version, it goes paws up after five minutes. One just can't ignore the cornerstones.

Sure the dashboard is something new, but a game changer?  Then again I view EN as my information repository not a note taking app.  Nothing like it on the market for saving and finding stuff.  So that's my bias which comes forth when I see the fru fru.  🤷‍♂️

[s2sailor 2,440]

42 minutes ago, CalS said:

I know I am getting a bit caustic and I apologize for that.

No one can tell, honest 😄

Putting my cynical hat on, EN is not trying to please premium users.  They already have our money.  Some have left.  I doubt it has been a flood ... yet.  Their hope is to attract enough new paying members to compensate for those that left and grow the business.  This would have been a true disaster if they didn’t keep legacy around.  A key decision for them will be when they decide to remove legacy and at what state v10 will be at that time.  Many premium members are waiting and watching.

I think a key miss by Evernote was maybe not realizing that anyone willing to spend ~$70 a year for a note app is very likely using it to the fullest with specialized workflows.  Releasing v10 when they did likely affected every premium user in some way, and many significantly.

[CalS 5,307]

8 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

I think a key miss by Evernote was maybe not realizing that anyone willing to spend ~$70 a year for a note app is very likely using it to the fullest with specialized workflows.  Releasing v10 when they did likely affected every premium user in some way, and many significantly.

Bingo!  I think the same way.  I don't believe they understood all the ways folks were leveraging the product to get that $70 worth of value.  I've seen some inklings of that realization in the bits of communication so far.  Spun for sure, but there.  Again, here's hoping they right the ship. 

[tavor 668]

39 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

I think a key miss by Evernote was maybe not realizing that anyone willing to spend ~$70 a year for a note app is very likely using it to the fullest with specialized workflows.  Releasing v10 when they did likely affected every premium user in some way, and many significantly.

Exactly. Even the forum members who routinely defend EN at every turn are using . . . wait for . . . Legacy.

[ripwit 18]

Just reading the conversations about "valuation" above.

Perhaps EN and its investors are not really interested in the number of paying customers, but more interested in the customers' data and metadata.

I have trusted EN with a lot of private information over the last 5-6 years. I have shared data with others. They have never promised real data security (and many/most cloud providers don't.)

So I'm wondering if this isn't just another way to get valuation from free/cheap customers - especially if it involves being able to capitalize on the data they store.

Tell me I'm being paranoid. Could never happen. Not like google or facebuck.

 

[DTLow 5,744]

20 minutes ago, ripwit said:

Perhaps EN and its investors are not really interested in the number of paying customers, but more interested in the customers' data and metadata.

I've seen no evidence that Evernote is interested in mining our data.

>>Tell me I'm being paranoid. Could never happen.

I don't think it's possible for Evernote to change existing TOS for this without notification and allowing account closure

[tavor 668]

23 minutes ago, ripwit said:

Just reading the conversations about "valuation" above.

Perhaps EN and its investors are not really interested in the number of paying customers, but more interested in the customers' data and metadata.

I have trusted EN with a lot of private information over the last 5-6 years. I have shared data with others. They have never promised real data security (and many/most cloud providers don't.)

So I'm wondering if this isn't just another way to get valuation from free/cheap customers - especially if it involves being able to capitalize on the data they store.

Tell me I'm being paranoid. Could never happen. Not like google or facebuck.

 

All that note data would certainly be valuable to potential acquirers who are active data miners, such as Alphabet/Google.

I use the Local Notebooks feature (pre-v10) keep private notes private.

[toao 148]

7 hours ago, ripwit said:

Perhaps EN and its investors are not really interested in the number of paying customers, but more interested in the customers' data and metadata.

 

very interesting point - I hadn't thought about that. let's assume for a second you are right. some of ENs recent decisions seem to make a lot more sense in that light:

- removing local (i.e. non synced) notebooks as they cannot be data mined,

- not addressing paying customers concerns as their revenue might not matter as much strategically,

also it would be a way for EN to monetize those non paying free customers. might even be a mixed form where you won't get data mined as a premium customer and ad supported for free. they certainly would loose a lot of premium customers, but that might be offset by the ad revenue from 10 or 20 or 50 times as many ad supported customers. very interesting thought indeed.

[gazumped 12,063]

9 hours ago, tavor said:

Exactly. Even the forum members who routinely defend EN at every turn are using . . . wait for . . . Legacy.

<Sigh> Pointing out the facts of life is not 'defending',  it's just being practical. 

And I'm no defender of the current ongoing slow-motion car-crash of a release - I've been actively suggesting that folks go back to Legacy when they hit issues.  I'm still using the last public releases for Android and Windows with updating firmly turned OFF for the time being.

Watching all this breast-beating about the new release being toxic is like watching a kid lie in 2 inches of water and panic about drowning.  Just get up guys - you'll be fine...a little damp maybe,  but generally fine...

[Vidalia 23]

10 hours ago, ripwit said:

Perhaps EN and its investors are not really interested in the number of paying customers, but more interested in the customers' data and metadata.

Remember the golden rule, if you are not paying for the service, you are the product. 😀

[oded 43]

15 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

There are some fixes announced with v10.6 for Windows and Mac.

Maybe you give it a try, and feedback if your problems were solved by this release. Would be good if such a PITA could finally be solved by updating.

Here's one example (windows)
One of my tags has 591 notes.
The new version displays 17 (and each extra attempt displays a different number of notes but never the right one 😞)

[flyteach 16]

Unfortunately, after the 10.5.7 popup debacle, lack of drag and drop, CS closing issue tickets just because they answered it (NOT because it was resolved), I'm moving on after 11+ years of using EN. Most everything that, for me, made EN easy to use and useful in my life, has been changed to some undescribed, uncommunicated vision with seeming little input from users. I can't even check out 10.6 because of the lack of features that remain in legacy while I finish my transition to a new tool. However, reading the release notes, I have to wonder who's brainstorm is was to introduce a new home page without being a major version number. Used to be one could track changes by version, but apparently EN is setting a new paradigm. Small, incremental change forcing large workflow changes on a user who may be ill prepared to realize said changes. I tried to be a beta tester, but when I couldn't even create a new note I had to quit. I couldn't understand how the betas got out of the company in the first place. I was being asked to perform pre-alpha testing and that made actually using the program come to a halt (but not for long). But, then being out of the beta group, there wasn't a way to see what was going on or coming or help guide EN into some good decisions for customers. I'm sure EN isn't worried about losing one customer, it's much more work for me, but I'm convinced it will be worth it as EN has become something that is no longer useful to me. YMMV.

[oded 43]

16 minutes ago, flyteach said:

 I'm moving on after 11+ years of using EN.

Where are you moving to?

[Paul A. 677]

13 hours ago, tavor said:

All that note data would certainly be valuable to potential acquirers who are active data miners, such as Alphabet/Google.

Google doesn't monetize its paid G Suite services, so I wouldn't be too concerned about a Google acquisition. I think it makes a certain amount of sense as a potential Google acquisition, actually. The new v10 is written primarily in Javascript, one of Google's preferred programming languages, and it's cross-platform with a feature-complete web version. The back-end infrastructure is also already running on the Google Cloud. 🤔

[flyteach 16]

40 minutes ago, oded said:

Where are you moving to?

I'm still evaluating Joplin, but am leaning towards Devonthink. I'm Mac centric, so it's a viable option. Another option to check out is theBrain.

[oded 43]

5 minutes ago, flyteach said:

I'm still evaluating Joplin, but am leaning towards Devonthink. I'm Mac centric, so it's a viable option. Another option to check out is theBrain.

Thanks

[tavor 668]

5 hours ago, gazumped said:

Watching all this breast-beating about the new release being toxic is like watching a kid lie in 2 inches of water and panic about drowning.  Just get up guys - you'll be fine...a little damp maybe,  but generally fine...

Seems that is your assessment anytime people justifiably complain about a new EN release breaking workflows.

To each his own. I can empathize with people paying $70 per year and having an inferior, buggy release dropped in their laps and having their workflows disrupted. And as you well know, there is no rolling back on iOS and EN is not providing a link to a prior version on Android, so going back to Legacy and waiting it out is simply not possible for everyone.

[ek12 14]

14 hours ago, ripwit said:

So I'm wondering if this isn't just another way to get valuation from free/cheap customers - especially if it involves being able to capitalize on the data they store.

 

to me, this is the most logical conclusion of their actions to date.  If I consider the possibility of e.g. a Google acquisition, their actions makes sense.

from these forums alone, they've clearly alienated long term highest-revenue users.  their silence makes it clear they don't care, indicating these users are not important to their go forward strategy

their data is in google cloud.  they attempted to evolve their TOS in 2016 in a way that would allow them to mine our data without having opted in.  shedding premium users would actually reduce that objection and make such a change easier.

they've long resisted encrypting Anything.

AND they've removed support for local notebooks.

to me, this suggests there has to be a bigger monetization play in the works.  and to me, the most logical assets are eyeballs (revenue or not) and data (ads)

I've been meaning to pull my more sensitive notebooks out of Evernote for a while, and this whole process has given me urgency.  I'm still using Legacy for the time being, but I'm watching these conversations closely.

[toao 148]

10 minutes ago, ek12 said:

 

to me, this is the most logical conclusion of their actions to date.  If I consider the possibility of e.g. a Google acquisition, their actions makes sense.

from these forums alone, they've clearly alienated long term highest-revenue users.  their silence makes it clear they don't care, indicating these users are not important to their go forward strategy

their data is in google cloud.  they attempted to evolve their TOS in 2016 in a way that would allow them to mine our data without having opted in.  shedding premium users would actually reduce that objection and make such a change easier.

they've long resisted encrypting Anything.

AND they've removed support for local notebooks.

to me, this suggests there has to be a bigger monetization play in the works.  and to me, the most logical assets are eyeballs (revenue or not) and data (ads)

I've been meaning to pull my more sensitive notebooks out of Evernote for a while, and this whole process has given me urgency.  I'm still using Legacy for the time being, but I'm watching these conversations closely.

if we follow this train of thought you will likely not know about a transaction until it is official, which might or might not be too late for saving your data from google (you could argue it is already on theirs servers, but I don't think google can actually access it at the moment). having migrated away to Devonthink in october due to the V10 mess I guess this is the point I start actively deleting my EN data...

[gazumped 12,063]

3 minutes ago, tavor said:

Seems that is your assessment anytime people justifiably complain about a new EN release breaking workflows.

"Justifiably?"  When (except for iOS) you can install a complete fix in 20 minutes or less?

5 minutes ago, tavor said:

EN is not providing a link to a prior version on Android,

That's more due to the way that App Stores Work,  but since Android is less secure than Apple,  sideloads are a possibility.  See https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/evernote-corporation/evernote/evernote-8-13-3-release/ -or-
https://evernote.en.uptodown.com/android/download/2259282 for the historic APKs

6 minutes ago, ek12 said:

their silence makes it clear they don't care, indicating these users are not important to their go forward strategy

"Their silence" has been a corporate policy for the past 12 years.  It doesn't make anything clear.

- And I don't see any buyouts as very likely;  Most (all?) of the main players already have their own skin in the game.  Google has Keep forinstance.  If they bought the Big Elephant they'd have to scrap one or the other,  and most of the current paying customers - who chose Evernote over the competition in the first place - would likely jump ship leaving the new owner with a lot of Basic accounts and very little actual revenue.

Evernote's current T&C's (link above somewhere) are pretty clear that no sharing can take place - "your data is your data".  As others have already said: you'd have to have an opportunity to opt in or out of some scheme if they want to change it,  so you'd get a few weeks notice at least.

But again - rather than stress about this theoretical possibility,  why don't we just get on with business and leave Evernote desperately fixing theirs,  and see what happens in a few weeks?

[Nullen 7]

On the android phone app...every single time I open it I get,  "Just a few moments we're setting up your new app." 

[gazumped 12,063]

5 minutes ago, toao said:

you will likely not know about a transaction until it is official, which might or might not be too late for saving your data from google

So we're accepting this is a real deal now?  While T&C's protect a company from most things,  playing fast and loose with your data during a current subscription is not one of them.  Last time I had a provider 'suggest' another company was ready to look after my account because they were going out of business,  I had to opt IN to that deal a couple of months before it happened. 

If you have any concerns about your Evernote data,  just keep a regular backup (possible through the Legacy options,  the last public releases and third party apps like Backupery and CloudHQ).  You will almost certainly have time to get a final copy before you pull the plug if that's what you want to do,  but you're covered if not.

And if anything happens you don't like - go find your friendly local Data Protection body;  those fine people have the power to impose some eye-watering fines if they want to.

In any event all of this is just locker-room chatter - and don't forget that Evernote's hungry young competitors will be relishing this fuss and palaver,  and possibly adding a bit of fuel to the fire from time to time. 

The more uncertain Evernote's users are,  the more likely they are to move away to someone more deserving of their subscriptions.  Us paying users are quite a valuable resource. 

Which is why it's so dumb of Evernote to leave everyone hanging!