Hate the new Evernote

[pansovic 68]

2 hours ago, Heffalump said:

I've been an EN user for maybe five years. Basic to Premium to Plus to Premium. With the latter change, and for the privilege of paying significantly more, I was welcomed with an upgrade for the worse. Not the first time I have experienced this.

Being a large elephant, I am not gifted technically, but I do have a long memory. Weakly managed companies allow themselves to be dominated by transient salespersons and/or equally transient IT experts, neither of which group has any real grasp of the value of the product customers like and continue to pay for in cash and loyalty.  

Witnessing the disappearance of so many practical features, and their replacement by purposeless gloss, is sufficient to spook this elephant to another watering hole.

Let me know when you find your new watering hole. Happy to replace EN, but I haven't found any satisfaction in Google Keep, Notes, etc. Have you?

[pansovic 68]

10 hours ago, ArjenC said:

For work we switched to the MS product, this is not perfect but less frustrating and the focus is back on our real work. But it has it flaws too, like every product I assume.

For personal use I'm still searching what fits the best. For now I us the MS product for new content and Evernote for historical use. Less than ideal, I know, but don't want to import 10k+ items in a new application before I've decided.

In the end, I would have liked Evernote to deliver the quality they stand for. That's why I waited for so long to acknowledge that Evernote failed big time, not only with V10 but in trust... 

With MS product, do you mean Microsoft? Like which MS product? 

[pansovic 68]

3 hours ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

For simple text notes, Joplin is indeed great.

After a quick trial, cannot search a word in a picture, nor pdf. EN is still a better version

[Peter Olins 66]

1 hour ago, oded said:

  4 hours ago, ArjenC said:

And if you try to reach support all they can answers is: working on it

I have had the opposite experience! Support was very prompt, courteous and attentive—just like my experience a year or two ago when I had a database problem (thanks Shane). They gave me some suggested actions, and when these didn't solve the problem, we scheduled an online consultation.

Presumably, Support has to cope with the consequences of misguided Management decisions with EN 10+. I don't envy them.

[NetRanger 2]

Finally glad to know this isn't just me.  Been using Evernote for 10+ years.  I just installed the legacy version and was so relieved to have all the old functionality back.  Tired of tech companies "improving" things just for the sake of improving them.  The webification of the new version has made things slow and cumbersome even though the new interface is clean (too clean so that I can't find anything).  On my Mac, if I don't have an active Internet connection, I can't even open the app (or if it opens, I have no notes). Yes, sometimes that happens such as when the network is down.

Also, the new version will only let you export 50 notes at a time.  The legacy version allowed me to export everything all at once.  I've been trying to get my wife to user Evernote for years and she just complains about it.  Will be switching Apple Notes.  Yes, I know it doesn't have all the same functionality, but for what I do it's adequate and will work across all my devices.  And, it's already included.  Sorry Evernote - you've been my right hand for a long time but I can't put up with this anymore.  It's a sad farewell but I just can't fight with this any longer.

[tavor 668]

6 hours ago, gazumped said:

Legacy on Mobile Android is (relatively) easy.  Download an APK from one of these - 

Android original 8.13.3 

• https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/evernote-corporation/evernote/evernote-8-13-3-release/ 
• https://apkpure.com/evernote-notes-organizer-daily-planner/com.evernote/versions 
• https://evernote.en.uptodown.com/android/download/2259282 

Search online for how to install if you're in doubt; likewise how to turn off automatic updates on the Evernote app.

I'm still using the old version.

In iOS the situation doesn;t seem so bad now with the latest updates...

At least when I was providing an apk link, I was specifically pointing out that these are 3rd party sites and these app versions are not verified or endorsed in any way by Evernote. In other words, you install these unverified apk's at your own risk. None of us knows if these apps are hacked with malicious code or if they are sending user data to a hacker.

I think it's irresponsible of you to provide these links without some kind of disclaimer. You know that some new people on this forum will look at your Lvl5 status and post count and assume you are either an EN employee or acting in some official representative capacity.

That said, I think EN should be providing a way for people to revert on Android, but since they are refusing to do so, people may be willing to assume the risk of these 3rd party apk's.

[marmamrm 0]

Have to agree. The new one is just barely usable for me, but more trouble than it's worth. I can't fit everything into one view so I have to open every note on it's own. But after a couple of days all the open docs go blank and I can't open new docs, so I have to restart EN which loses all my open docs.. going to try reverting to an older version and if that's troublesome, time to move on

[Wanderling Reborn 185]

6 hours ago, pansovic said:

After a quick trial, cannot search a word in a picture, nor pdf. EN is still a better version

I said that Joplin is great for simple text notes. 

Pictures and PDFs are not simple text notes. 

Joplin is not for me, because I need more than simple text notes. If someone takes text notes with an occasional photo or attachment they don't expect to do much with, Joplin is fine.

That said, I think there is a way to OCR PDFs and pictures in Joplin using a plugin. I have not investigated this in depth, because at this moment, Joplin simply does not work for my needs, and OCR is just a small part of missing functionality that I consider essential for my needs. And to be honest, neither does Evernote. 

It's hard to objectively say "service xxx is better than yyy" because everyone has different needs or habits. Joplin is near totally useless for me, but it's a godsend for other people. Evernote stopped working for me a while ago, but for many people, there's nothing better - either because it is what they need, or simply because it is what they are used to and nothing else will ever match, because nothing else is exactly the same. 

[AdamJ 24]

13 hours ago, tavor said:

That said, I think EN should be providing a way for people to revert on Android, but since they are refusing to do so, people may be willing to assume the risk of these 3rd party apk's.

I think that will only float for a small number of people.  I think a lot will just change app.  That's what i think I'm going to do. Currently researching alternatives.

[pansovic 68]

1 hour ago, AdamJ said:

I think that will only float for a small number of people.  I think a lot will just change app.  That's what i think I'm going to do. Currently researching alternatives.

I couldn't find any alternative that pleases me that also includes accepting to import the Evernote files. If you have, I like very much to hear about it.

[tavor 668]

1 hour ago, pansovic said:

I couldn't find any alternative that pleases me that also includes accepting to import the Evernote files. If you have, I like very much to hear about it.

Have you tried Joplin (base app + whichever plugins interest you)? For my use case, Joplin + plugins has *more* functionality than Evernote. For others that may not be the case - this is true of all the serious note apps - they are all slightly different in feature set from one another, so it's a matter of finding which app has features one prioritizes while giving up lower priority features. For some, that will be EN v6, which is still a great note app.

[tavor 668]

2 hours ago, AdamJ said:

I think that will only float for a small number of people.  I think a lot will just change app.  That's what i think I'm going to do. Currently researching alternatives.

Can't blame you. It's a terrible choice EN has pushed Android users, who were negatively surprised by the v10 update, into making. There are app categories where I'd be willing to download an apk from a third party site (even then, only from apk sites that have a very good reputation), but there's no way I'd download a note app from a third party site. Too much risk to have all my notes in a non-verified version of EN Android.

[ArjenC 124]

1 hour ago, pansovic said:

I couldn't find any alternative that pleases me that also includes accepting to import the Evernote files. If you have, I like very much to hear about it.

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=alternative+evernote 👍

This link: https://www.guru99.com/best-alternatives-to-evernote.html provides some alternatives, but only you can decide what works best for you.

[pansovic 68]

29 minutes ago, tavor said:

Have you tried Joplin (base app + whichever plugins interest you)? For my use case, Joplin + plugins has *more* functionality than Evernote. For others that may not be the case - this is true of all the serious note apps - they are all slightly different in feature set from one another, so it's a matter of finding which app has features one prioritizes while giving up lower priority features. For some, that will be EN v6, which is still a great note app.

Is there a plugin to search within a picture, a pdf? To distribute the columns of a table evenly?

[tavor 668]

17 minutes ago, pansovic said:

Is there a plugin to search within a picture, a pdf? To distribute the columns of a table evenly?

There is an addon to run OCR, but it's not in plugin form, so it requires some tech savvy. I would guess that at some point OCR of pdfs will be available as a plugin. OCR of pictures, I have no idea, but if someone with coding ability decides they want that feature, I would guess the lead dev would welcome that additional functionality.

I haven't noticed any issues with table columns - just checked a table and the columns look good to me. Check for yourself - no need to import your EN notes. Just download and install (or use the portable version), it comes with some introductory notes. The easy way to create tables is in the rich text editor.

[Piotas 121]

5 hours ago, tavor said:

Just download and install (or use the portable version), it comes with some introductory notes. The easy way to create tables is in the rich text editor.

In addition to Joplin's build-in MarkDown editor that you can extend with external editors of your choice (I use  Typora when external note window is necessary) - I am not aware about similar concept within Evernote.

Not to mention Joplin's browser addon (natives for chrome- and FF-based) is IMHO superior to Evernote's, especially if you transition from HTML-based notes to MarkDown-based.

 

[Gnopps 29]

18 hours ago, pansovic said:

I couldn't find any alternative that pleases me that also includes accepting to import the Evernote files. If you have, I like very much to hear about it.

This is a good (but not complete) starting point: noteapps.info

[Brian Handscomb 28]

2 hours ago, Gnopps said:

This is a good (but not complete) starting point: noteapps.info

Very nice and have looked at this before but I wish there was an option "not an Electron app". There are plenty of ways to do cross platform apps with "real code" rather than write a bunch of HTML, CSS and JavaScript... Qt, GTK, wxWidgets, Mono, IUP (I've at least tried most of these myself). The lure of writing a web app and magically creating a desktop app is too great for many people. Even Microsoft have gone down that dark path in recent years...

[gazumped 11,661]

1 minute ago, Brian Handscomb said:

The lure of writing a web app and magically creating a desktop app

I think not having to create the same feature several times in different operating systems is also quite important...

[Piotas 121]

5 minutes ago, gazumped said:

I think not having to create the same feature several times in different operating systems is also quite important...

true, lazy programming is near future, AI programming in the future - we may soon return to potato-capable apps

[tavor 668]

4 hours ago, Piotas said:

true, lazy programming is near future, AI programming in the future - we may soon return to potato-capable apps

It's not about lazy programming, it's about competitive realities. EN could afford to maintain 5 different codebases back when Evernote and OneNote were the only "real" cross platform note apps. But times have changed, and the note app market has lots of competitors, a number of which have surpassed Evernote in some aspects of functionality. EN simply could not afford to move at a lumbering elephant's pace with 5 different codebases while their competitors are zooming ahead.

That's not to say I think they managed this transition well - in fact, I have been very critical of this spectacularly bungled process. But I do understand that the transition to a unified codebase was necessary.

[pcryan5 71]

On 2/11/2021 at 4:18 AM, pansovic said:

I couldn't find any alternative that pleases me that also includes accepting to import the Evernote files. If you have, I like very much to hear about it.

FWIW - I use and like Devonthink 3.

[PinkElephant 8,091]

Good to know - if you are exclusively on Mac and iOS devices.

Sorry guys, no Windows or Android clients, and the makers of DT just made it clear again they are not working on anything for these platforms.

[JRC 11]

A week or two ago, I received my annual subscription renewal notice from Evernote which prompted me to revaluate the situation with this disastrous new Windows version.  I had already reverted back to the legacy version some months ago due to the removal of some important features (to me) such as the right click and save from Microsoft Outlook. 

I have no confidence in that feature or others ever being reintroduced into the Windows version nor do I have confidence that the legacy version will continue to be supported so I embarked upon a trial migration to Microsoft Onenote (which I already had as part of my Office 365 subscription).

The Onenote import tool did a good job of importing the Evernote data and, after a couple of hours of learning the Onenote structures and reorganizing my notes, I commenced a two week period of using both Evernote and Onenote.

Largely due to the removal of the Outlook right click save option, I have now let my Evernote subscription expire yesterday and will be moving exclusively to Onenote over the next 1-2 weeks. It's extremely  disappointing to me that, after so many years of using Evernote, I am forced to make that change but this latest version of Evernote has simply taken too much of a backwards step for me to continue with it.

[tavor 668]

2 hours ago, JRC said:

A week or two ago, I received my annual subscription renewal notice from Evernote which prompted me to revaluate the situation with this disastrous new Windows version.  I had already reverted back to the legacy version some months ago due to the removal of some important features (to me) such as the right click and save from Microsoft Outlook. 

I have no confidence in that feature or others ever being reintroduced into the Windows version nor do I have confidence that the legacy version will continue to be supported so I embarked upon a trial migration to Microsoft Onenote (which I already had as part of my Office 365 subscription).

The Onenote import tool did a good job of importing the Evernote data and, after a couple of hours of learning the Onenote structures and reorganizing my notes, I commenced a two week period of using both Evernote and Onenote.

Largely due to the removal of the Outlook right click save option, I have now let my Evernote subscription expire yesterday and will be moving exclusively to Onenote over the next 1-2 weeks. It's extremely  disappointing to me that, after so many years of using Evernote, I am forced to make that change but this latest version of Evernote has simply taken too much of a backwards step for me to continue with it.

^ This experience is something some of us pointed out a while back. It's easy to say "oh, just go back to v6 for now", and that's certainly very easy for Basic users (on desktop, but not so much on mobile), but for Premium users who aren't happy with recent events, that renewal date forces a bit of a choice. Do I cough up another $70 in light of broken workflows and uncertain prospects (not helped by terrible communication from the company)?

~8% of Premium users are having to answer that question every month. November, December, January, February - that's ~1/3 of the paying userbase having to answer that question.

v10 has probably allowed EN to shed some staff given the unified codebase, but it has undoubtedly been a significant hit to revenues.

[gazumped 11,661]

10 hours ago, tavor said:

v10 has probably allowed EN to shed some staff given the unified codebase, but it has undoubtedly been a significant hit to revenues.

You seem to have access to inside information that the rest of us don't - I'd think the wastage Evernote is seeing from the 'power' users is probably more than being made up with new business.  The number of newbie queries on the forums has gone through the roof lately...

[ArjenC 124]

2 hours ago, gazumped said:

 The number of newbie queries on the forums has gone through the roof lately...

Yes, but will they stay the coming months or even years? 
Evernote made a risk analyzes and concluded that this was the right way and released V10. 
Some customers left, some joined... but the trust issues (for me personally) with Evernote are not restored. Lost multiple notes, and when you create new notes it is not guaranteed your data will stay the same or available. This is a big trust issue because you cannot check all your notes, every single update or new feature.

For example, day to day usage:

- You make a screenshot with web clipper and store your note in a safe place.
- After a while you decide to export your notebook for archiving.
- Later you import this notebook again... the screenshot is not shown  any more...

OR
- you annotate the screenshot. Same result: image is deleted... 

Yes it is a bug and will be fixed later...
But data integrity should have the highest priority for a note taking app which stores all data in the cloud environment. 

We will see if this data bug has higher priority that lets say: a shortcut key for the find command.

Edited February 14, 2021 by ArjenC

[oded 42]

22 minutes ago, ArjenC said:

For example, day to day usage:

- You make a screenshot with web clipper and store your note in a safe place.
- After a while you decide to export your notebook for archiving.
- Later you import this notebook again... the screenshot is not shown  any more...

OR
- you annotate the screenshot. Same result: image is deleted... 

OR
you choose a certain tag which has more than 500 notes, but only 17 are displayed 😞
 

[Mike Mouse 5]

When the new Evernote was released, I installed it. I use it predominantly on Macbook and iPhone, I immediately noticed it wasn't working properly.

I found changes to a note had not been saved. So, I made changes, but when looking at the other device the changes hadn't happened. So, I made the changes on the second device. Evernote then created 2 notes

I've worked in I.T. for years, so did a few tests and established that behaviour was erratic, whenever using the new MacOS version things got messed up.

What I always loved was that Evernote was so reliable in saving changes. Not anymore.

So, I discovered the Legacy edition, and have been working with that, which is all fine.

The new Evernote has been through a few updates so this weekend I gave it another chance. I found a note, changed a single word in that note. It said it had saved in the corner, went to my iPhone version. Nope. No change. I was NOT prepared to wait for propagation, as my whole faith in it was undermined.

So... I have now completed hours of work, mimicking my notebook structure in Apple Notes and then exporting one notebook of notes at a time, importing, and dragging into the appropriate folder in Apple Notes.

Evernote, I'll be cancelling my subscription. You've lost another customer, and simply because your new version doesn't work properly for me, just as so, so many other customers are saying.

I used to recommend Evernote to anyone and everyone, but sadly now it is the complete opposite.

 

[eric99 980]

4 hours ago, oded said:

OR
you choose a certain tag which has more than 500 notes, but only 17 are displayed 😞
 

I've never seen this. Did this happen in EN 10.8.4 ?

This is normal behaviour if the search string was filled in before: the intention is that you first type the search string and then refine via the tag filters...

 

[oded 42]

1 hour ago, eric99 said:

I've never seen this. Did this happen in EN 10.8.4 ?

This is normal behaviour if the search string was filled in before: the intention is that you first type the search string and then refine via the tag filters...

 

I'm not sure because I've deleted Evernote 10 after all these problems and moved to Legacy.
Anyway, no search string was filled in before.
All notes were displayed, I've selected a certain tag which had more than 500 notes and only 17 were displayed.
And every extra trial a different number of notes were displayed, but never the right one...
During the years I spent thousands of hours inserting "all my life" into EN, feeling I found exactly the perfect application - just what I needed!!
Like others, I've recommended EN to my family, friends etc.
Completely trusted EN.
No more.
I gave up.
Looking for an alternative.
Bye Bye EN.

[pansovic 68]

5 minutes ago, oded said:

I'm not sure because I've deleted Evernote 10 after all these problems and moved to Legacy.
Anyway, no search string was filled in before.
All notes were displayed, I've selected a certain tag which had more than 500 notes and only 17 were displayed.
And every extra trial a different number of notes were displayed, but never the right one...
During the years I spent thousands of hours inserting "all my life" into EN, feeling I found exactly the perfect application - just what I needed!!
Like others, I've recommended EN to my family, friends etc.
Completely trusted EN.
No more.
I gave up.
Looking for an alternative.
Bye Bye EN.

And what has been your alternative of choice? 

[pansovic 68]

3 hours ago, Mike Mouse said:

When the new Evernote was released, I installed it. I use it predominantly on Macbook and iPhone, I immediately noticed it wasn't working properly.

I found changes to a note had not been saved. So, I made changes, but when looking at the other device the changes hadn't happened. So, I made the changes on the second device. Evernote then created 2 notes

I've worked in I.T. for years, so did a few tests and established that behaviour was erratic, whenever using the new MacOS version things got messed up.

What I always loved was that Evernote was so reliable in saving changes. Not anymore.

So, I discovered the Legacy edition, and have been working with that, which is all fine.

The new Evernote has been through a few updates so this weekend I gave it another chance. I found a note, changed a single word in that note. It said it had saved in the corner, went to my iPhone version. Nope. No change. I was NOT prepared to wait for propagation, as my whole faith in it was undermined.

So... I have now completed hours of work, mimicking my notebook structure in Apple Notes and then exporting one notebook of notes at a time, importing, and dragging into the appropriate folder in Apple Notes.

Evernote, I'll be cancelling my subscription. You've lost another customer, and simply because your new version doesn't work properly for me, just as so, so many other customers are saying.

I used to recommend Evernote to anyone and everyone, but sadly now it is the complete opposite.

 

Any alternative that has fulfilled your needs? 

[oded 42]

10 minutes ago, pansovic said:

And what has been your alternative of choice? 

I'm not sure yet.
I have thousands of files, so I'm considering Google Drive, but nothing (except leaving EN) has been decided yet.

[kglah 2]

Just installed the ver 10 and thank god could revert to legacy app.  User since oct 11.....so much of my life and that of my family and our work enterprise is here....

new app needs to allow previous interface option or the major migration will be out ---- can you hear me devs?

this is evenote on a knife edge .....

 

ken

[ArjenC 124]

I know there is an legacy system, I did switch back (with help because of import / export issues) to make a new backup export file. So a had my data and so i can migrate to....

Legacy isn't available on mobile, 80% of the time I'm on mobile. So this is not a real solution, for my personal workflow.

My issue with Evernote today is: They know data is not secured, they know people experience data corruption and loss. And there is no disclaimer, there is no warning that this can happen to you. What does that say about the priority within the core of Evernote? How important is securing your data in the cloud, note-taking in it core is: Once you capture information is says their like it is captured, unless the customer edits.

When installing V10 a message should be displayed : Version 10 is an experimental version, data can be corrupted. Use legacy version for productional / sensitive / important data. 

[Piotas 121]

On 2/14/2021 at 1:43 PM, gazumped said:

You seem to have access to inside information that the rest of us don't - I'd think the wastage Evernote is seeing from the 'power' users is probably more than being made up with new business.  The number of newbie queries on the forums has gone through the roof lately...

being EN user since 2009 I never felt the need to express myself on forum, until I was deceived by "upgrade" in November 2020 and my Evernote v6 become Evernote v10. If only I know what kind of downgrade it is, I would never "upgrade".

[DTLow 5,736]

3 minutes ago, Piotas said:

If only I know what kind of downgrade it is, I would never "upgrade".

Why don't you reinstall the legacy product (https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052560314-Install-an-older-version-of-Evernote)

[ArjenC 124]

1 hour ago, DTLow said:

Why don't you reinstall the legacy product (https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052560314-Install-an-older-version-of-Evernote)

I see more people give this advice, I followed this advice... not without consequences. I lost important notes due to sync issues between v10 and legacy... I had some help in trying to restore notes, but was unsuccessful. Weeks later i've discoverd issues with existing notes. Older notes that that where imported and migrated from old version  to v10 and back again, static notes for reference. Because I cannot check all 10k+ notes I must trust data integrity...

So when you advice install the legacy version please also advice: Make a proper backup in case migration breaks / fails.

[Piotas 121]

2 hours ago, DTLow said:

Why don't you reinstall the legacy product (https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052560314-Install-an-older-version-of-Evernote)

of course I did install the legacy product soon after I encountered a bug that made using EV v10 impossible in several non-US locale, including Polish, Latvian, Turkish and US-International.

Imagine after installing Evernote on your PC, you cannot type text in ANY app because every time you enter letter V, your systems hangs.

They solve this bug in version 10.8.4. After 4 months of pretending this issue doesn't exist.

 

[oded 42]

Every new post I read makes me understand that the sooner I run away - the better...

[PinkElephant 8,091]

Then what ere you doing here - announcing you will run, really, I mean after the shoes are laced, yes now, but first need to take a sip from my water bottle, but believe me, will run, after ...

RUN !

[Gazebo 32]

If you think that Onenote (for example) has no issues then you are wrong. Lots on their Reddits etc about loss of data, lock outs, slow syncing.

I'm no EN fanboy, but surely if it's that bad go somewhere else. Stop complaining here and use the forum for the "new super note app" to tell them how great the new alternative product is.

In my experience the alternative that does it all doesn't exist. Ian Small has been sensible in his interviews, the changes are for the many, not the superusers. I believe him when he says missing features will come back.

Keep the faith. Or tell me where the mythical better product is....

[oded 42]

18 minutes ago, Gazebo said:

If you think that Onenote (for example) has no issues then you are wrong. Lots on their Reddits etc about loss of data, lock outs, slow syncing.

I'm no EN fanboy, but surely if it's that bad go somewhere else. Stop complaining here and use the forum for the "new super note app" to tell them how great the new alternative product is.

In my experience the alternative that does it all doesn't exist. Ian Small has been sensible in his interviews, the changes are for the many, not the superusers. I believe him when he says missing features will come back.

Keep the faith. Or tell me where the mythical better product is....

Reading your post might give the impression that I'm the only one who's complaining here...
Just read all the posts and tell me how many users complain?
Tell me also how many users say they're going somewhere else, just looking for the best place to go.
That's exactly what I'm doing!
The fact that I failed once doesn't mean I have to fail again...
Btw, I don't need any extra features.
I need a very simple application that works flawlessly!!
If EN would continue to support Legacy, just as it is now, that would be all I need!

[PinkElephant 8,091]

There is a nice concept with alternatives. If you believe you have your winner picked, you take your time to find the „best alternative“ - which is the next best fit to your use profile, not a better one.

Then compare both. If they are close, thinking about switching may be worth the effort. But if the next best solution is far off, you learned something as well.

For me currently EN legacy is (still) my best fit. V10 may or may not be the best alternative right now, but it likely will become so while it evolves further. As legacy is still supported, I have no need to actually go down this road NOW.

With many postings here about dread and misery, I have problems to see structured thinking. The typical argument goes „I have a problem, all is bad, the company is doomed, I need to grab my data and run“. OK, when in panic mode, then RUN …

[DTLow 5,736]

12 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

For me currently EN legacy is (still) my best fit.

Likewise, EN Legacy is my choice    
I'm well aware of the alternatives pro & con, but have no need for switching (at present)

[FIFOF 6]

E

N V10.8 for Mac : hope for the poor user we are?

like everyone here I try ro find my future EN

Since 2012 I had 13000 notes in my Macs some says it’s my second brain, it’s an everyday work with the Gtd process (thanks David) . I evaluate all alternatives  without success (Joplin, national, Bear...) and I discover  Roams Research.

i found the same exaltation ( so french !) when I discover EN, with a new way to  create notes.Roams permit you to link notes them in both the way. And I discover the ZETTELKASTEN method an incredible  process to build your references.

But...there is but...

How many times I spend to change? Is it dangerous for my data ? What did i lose in the end ?

The effort is too high !

And there is EN 10.8 I have tried and it seems better than the previous one. It misses many features essential for me but... we progress...

I think now it’s urgent to waiting for the next one.
And organise a big pressure to get what we want. I think now it’s possible.

 

 

 

 

 

[Carter Shanklin 4]

On 2/10/2021 at 9:48 AM, pansovic said:

With MS product, do you mean Microsoft? Like which MS product? 

Microsoft OneNote. I'm back to OneNote (on Mac) and it's not as bad as it used to be, much more stable than it was in 2017. Certainly not as bad as Evernote 10.

I've been a non-paying / deadbeat user for more than 10 years, not ashamed of that, but given EN's behavior they seem to be firing their old user base and searching for a new one. As a free tier user I don't feel confident that Evernote will keep my data safe and available for the long haul so I had to switch.

[PinkElephant 8,091]

At least Microsoft is sort of a sure bet. Still I am glad I am not any longer subject to the dull decision making of IT departments that take the „industry standard“ and push it on all users.

Tried OneNote, felt like it was from Microsoft, did not like it, and that was it.

[pansovic 68]

23 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Then what ere you doing here - announcing you will run, really, I mean after the shoes are laced, yes now, but first need to take a sip from my water bottle, but believe me, will run, after ...

RUN !

Why are you defending the EN? Have you been able to find anything positive on the v10? This is not a sarcastic question. This is a genuine and honest ask for help in making v10 useful in our everyday life. I can only see that it is a total disaster, and apparently, I am not the only one. As such, I cannot understand your point of view: it's slow, we lose notes, we get duplicates. These are not opinions on some polished version that we like or not. Those are the fundamentals of whatever note-taking program on which EN is not even delivering on. Do they really need our feedback and features request on such basic things? To me, it sounds more like a ship without a captain, or a captain that successfully has destroyed his own ship. Of course, I must be wrong, but I don't know why. Do you? So, I also want to run, but with 20.000 notes over the last 10 years it's easier said than done. 

[pansovic 68]

22 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

There is a nice concept with alternatives. If you believe you have your winner picked, you take your time to find the „best alternative“ - which is the next best fit to your use profile, not a better one.

Then compare both. If they are close, thinking about switching may be worth the effort. But if the next best solution is far off, you learned something as well.

For me currently EN legacy is (still) my best fit. V10 may or may not be the best alternative right now, but it likely will become so while it evolves further. As legacy is still supported, I have no need to actually go down this road NOW.

With many postings here about dread and misery, I have problems to see structured thinking. The typical argument goes „I have a problem, all is bad, the company is doomed, I need to grab my data and run“. OK, when in panic mode, then RUN …

I totally agree with you. Legacy is still better than any other alternative. But doesn't it worry you that the latest version is terribly worse than the previous one? Do you have one example of another company that has done the same? Doesn't that tell you more about the state of EN management and the EN company?

[AdamJ 24]

22 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

V10 may or may not be the best alternative right now, but it likely will become so while it evolves further.

The problem I have personally @PinkElephant is that EN have chosen to develop this in a very slow cross platform tool.   I'm a developer and I find it very hard to see how they are going to get significant performance boosts out of the Electron platform they've chosen to develop the new v10 with.    It's not exactly known for performance, even still I must congratulate the EN team on producing such a slow comparatively simple program.   

This is after all a note taking program.  Not an NLE... not a 3d animation studio... no, a note taking program.   It should run liquid fast on anything made in the last 10 years.     I have a cutting edge brand new top of the range mobile and it runs insanely slow.   It's just an embarrassment. 

And so for me, I really can't see a future with EN as I just can't imagine them obtaining anything near fast performance with this platform they've chosen.

[DTLow 5,736]

4 minutes ago, pansovic said:

I totally agree with you. Legacy is still better than any other alternative. But doesn't it worry you that the latest version is ...

I'm not participating in the Version 10 testing, so ... no worries

I do monitor the progress and I'll get involved when the product is ready for general use

[PinkElephant 8,091]

Maybe I am just not testing the limits as power users may do - I am just running my little setup. Some features are still not supported by v10, so legacy continues to be my work horse. But I shift more and more over to v10, running both side by side.

Now surprise: I am not running into data loss, note duplication, hot CPU, and whatever gets reported here. From threads where I could help solve issues, I have the impression that often there are some corrupted elements from the first v10 generations (that were dreadful) never really removed from the computers. New updates are installed on top, but the underlying problem is not removed.

IMHO this is the main objective reason why some people still suffer problems with the current v10 releases. I am on 10.8.4 on my Mac, 10.5 on iOS, and everything is working.

There are still some features missing on both platforms, which can be compensated on the Mac by using legacy. On iOS it is wait and see until they get it released. But it is far from the disaster cries I read in some postings. Even with the current state of v10, it is hard to find another software that does the same job I am doing day by day using EN.

But everybody can post his alternatives here - it got pretty quiet about that in the last weeks.

[Kolmir 162]

22 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

With many postings here about dread and misery, I have problems to see structured thinking. The typical argument goes „I have a problem, all is bad, the company is doomed, I need to grab my data and run“. OK, when in panic mode, then RUN …

And what makes you so sure, that your way of thinking is correct? Are you a senior Delivery Manager with insider info? Or complexity scientist? Or mayby just someone with over-inflated ego? 😉

Maybe other see, that EvN doesn't deliver trust. EvN team is unable to communicate things properly, unable to assure safety of data. Maybe people just instinctively feel that Evn turned into immature dilettante company. Moreover, a company which may collapse/disappear soon...

Or they main device is iOS based and there is no legacy...

[PinkElephant 8,091]

Did it ever cross your mind that solving a situation very often can’t be reached by reversing course ? When a fat tanker is set for a rock, you can give left or right rudder. But if you try full reverse thrust, you will hit the cliff right on.

EN started 2 years ago to move down the path that led to v10. Even when there are still working legacy clients, I doubt that the structure to support them longer term is still existing. 

This leads to a simple conclusion: EN must make v10 a success - or they are in trouble.

Personally I am more optimistic about a positive outcome than I have been a few month ago. My gut feeling it that legacy will carry MY use cases (that must not be yours) until v10 is ready. Even today I can do appr. 80% of my workflows using only v10.

Others seem to be more pessimistic. If you are, and do not trust EN to be your solution for the next (say) 5 years, you have 2 options: Move NOW, or prepare your alternative, and move when ready.

My understanding for staying with EN and at the same time calling armageddon in the forum is exactly zero. Because it tells that somebody talks one talk, and acts another. This is nothing I can take serious.

[gazumped 11,661]

This is my situation with Evernote.  I know the Legacy system works - I've been using it for some years now.  Still am.

If I have to change from it,  then I'll re-evaluate and consider my options.  But (MHO) all the "OMG it's a disaster" reactions are an irrelevance - there's an easy fix - just use Legacy.  

V10 should never have been released in the way (and in the state) that it was,  but I can understand that there were practicalities that had to be observed.  And - it happened already.

There really is no going back.  Except for Legacy.

I don't plan on trying version 10 until I absolutely have to,  because it will mess with my head and cause me work.

If it's still unusable then,  the one constant in life is that I'll still have stuff to do.  I'll find a way to get it done.  

This may,  or may not,  include Evernote.

Any speculation about their solvency,  intentions,  management style etc is just that.  Like most big companies Evernote don't discuss their intentions in advance.  There is no hard information.  They'll do whatever they decide is necessary.  All we can do is use the app,  or not. 

Your individual choice,  but I still am...

[Peter Olins 66]

10 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Did it ever cross your mind that solving a situation very often can’t be reached by reversing course ?

I agree.

While the premature launch of EN 10 was a fiasco, each update has been getting better and better, and I can now do all my work on the new platform (on mac DT, not iOS). Tech support has been extremely helpful explaining how the new version works, and what is happening behind the scenes; these guys are great. For example, the dev. folks discovered a bug in Electron that was causing a problem with EN 10.

I share your confidence about the future of the app, and your frustration with the large number of users who seem to want to complain, rather than find a fix.

My 32,000 note collection is now behaving well on various mac's from OS 10.13.6 to 11.1. The only minor problem is a slow launch with a large database, so I just leave the app open all the time.

[CalS 5,280]

23 minutes ago, gazumped said:

I don't plan on trying version 10 until I absolutely have to,  because it will mess with my head and cause me work.

Ditto here.  I accidentally updated EN on my iPad last week.  I had been ignoring there after the cluster when I updated my phone.  I accidentally pressed Update All, DAA, geez. 

I will say EN is performing better on a mobile as a lookup device.  The wobbles aren't as noticeable if you aren't doing anything significant.  That is once EN is open.  It takes upwards of 30 seconds to load when first selected.  I have maybe 10 off line notes so nothing in particular to download.  Some administrative handshake SNAFU?

Which is better than the web where I don't even have access to the V10 version.  Too many notes I think is the issue (44,600 synced of 52,600).  The other 8,000 being a whole other kettle of fish with the loss of local notebooks.

So like @gazumped I am waiting it out to see if thing get better before investing a lot of time.  Shadow the forums in the meantime.

[PinkElephant 8,091]

@CalS Just to compare: What type of iPad are you using to run EN iOS ?

We have an iPad Air 2 (the oldest device that still gets iOS 14), which runs pretty well with iOS 14 and most apps. Not so with EN iOS 10.5, it is pretty slow on opening, and on everything else.

On an iPad Pro 10.5 it runs fast, about 4 seconds on opening, and in the 1-2 second bracket when opening a note later on. Same with iPhones: Pretty slow on an 6S+, quite fast on an 11 Pro Max.

[CalS 5,280]

9 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

@CalS Just to compare: What type of iPad are you using to run EN iOS ?

We have an iPad Air 2 (the oldest device that still gets iOS 14), which runs pretty well with iOS 14 and most apps. Not so with EN iOS 10.5, it is pretty slow on opening, and on everything else.

On an iPad Pro 10.5 it runs fast, about 4 seconds on opening, and in the 1-2 second bracket when opening a note later on. Same with iPhones: Pretty slow on an 6S+, quite fast on an 11 Pro Max.

iPad G6, it's about two years old.  iPhone is SE 2020, less than a year old.

Once the app opens performance when selecting notes is sluggish but not to the point of attention fully straying.   Better for sure on the iPhone than it was with V10.0.  Search is still way slow compared to desktop as it has always been, though worse than legacy IOS EN in my view.  Something else added with V10 that slows things down.

However, I find it most annoying that when searching the results are single pane.  That is only the list but not the list plus contents of the selected note in a right pane.  Aggravating to go back and forth.  The lack of a pane is a pain.  🤷‍♂️

 

[TechPerplexed 222]

4 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

But everybody can post his alternatives here - it got pretty quiet about that in the last weeks.

I still read this forum every now and then but as you may remember I moved over to Joplin a little over a year ago. At the time I posted that in here and recently brought it up too, but at some point the mentioning of alternatives will stop of course. I'd be a proper troll if I kept pushing it every time someone asks for a solution. And what works for me may not be what works for them anyway.

I would imagine that others feel the same - they said they weren't happy with the direction Evernote is going into, posted the alternative of their choice and left. At some point only the die hard and people who genuinely like the new version (possibly even drawn to it) are left over and neither will mention alternatives.

So, I don't see your "conclusion" as proof of anything, just a logical result of human nature in general  

[JRC 11]

6 hours ago, gazumped said:

- there's an easy fix - just use Legacy.  

I would call that a stop gap measure rather than a fix since we have been given no indication by EN of whether the Legacy version will continue to operate on Windows or, even if it does, how long it will be supported. We can also safety assume that it won't be enhanced from it's current state.

What's more, we also don't know whether some of the features of Legacy such as the ability to right click/save from Outlook will ever be implemented in V10 or later because no road map has been provided.

The reality is that I and many others,  are being moved away from a feature rich Windows version to two separate versions with no clear future for either. There is no clear path at all for those dissatisfied with V10. 

I can understand EN's desire to get to a common base BUT doing so at the expense of critical functionality is just crazy.

 

[Brian Handscomb 28]

Part of me still hopes EN "does a Winamp"... A huge amount of time was spent totally rebuilding Winamp and when Winamp3 came out a lot of people found it was unstable and missing features (sounds familiar) and went back to version 2... The Winamp devs took stock of the situation and went back to the version 2 core code for a couple of minor revisions before releasing a version 5 based on version 2 with some new features of version 3 re-built to work with the version 2 code. I think maybe "less than single digit" percent chance of EN following that route as they've "admitted fault" but are pressing on with their new code base (plus they are in a bit of a different situation) but it shows it is not unheard of for total rebuilds to be classed as "oops, we dun goofed" and abandoned in favour of older code by developers.

In the back of my mind I've toyed with the idea of making my own app, maybe with one of several cross platform solutions I've used before, or toyed with, or just thought about toying with (wxWidgets, GTK, IUP, Mono, Qt) - unlikely but in my mind I believe I could do it with 90%+ of the code being the same on all the desktop platforms I use (Mac, Windows, Linux). At least some of these fully support mobile app development too (Electron seems less official) and IMHO would've been a far better route to get a mostly unified code base with the exception of web code. Real code for real machines, web code for web.

For now I'm mostly on classic (not legacy) apps downloaded from official Evernote forum release announcements with the odd bit of API based third-party action. Also an old version on my Android phone that won't run a version of Android that EN supports making it safe from "upgrade". If that stops being an option I'm outta here.

[ArjenC 124]

@PinkElephant If the data corruption wasn't happing then your post makes sens to me... But the data corruption is there, still today... not as much, but still corruption and data loss is part of the V10, and for all I know also in Legacy...

This huge issue and not proper communication about the issues= Mega trust problem for me.

Don't you worry about this new experience some of us (customers) have? Maybe you was lucky or others did some stupid migration things...

But in every day use of the application: windows desktop and mobile usages you are will get sync issues, notes that are magically adjusted, duplicated notes, date of note gets adjusted. Copy pasting will crash app and note data is corrupted... etc...ect... 

I am very curious why you do not think this is a bad development and believe that Evernote is on the right track. What signals did I miss? 

Hope you will or can answer this, because I hope the Evernote fixes things and is trustworthy again.

[ehrt74 240]

1 hour ago, ArjenC said:

@PinkElephant If the data corruption wasn't happing then your post makes sens to me... But the data corruption is there, still today... not as much, but still corruption and data loss is part of the V10, and for all I know also in Legacy...

This huge issue and not proper communication about the issues= Mega trust problem for me.

Don't you worry about this new experience some of us (customers) have? Maybe you was lucky or others did some stupid migration things...

But in every day use of the application: windows desktop and mobile usages you are will get sync issues, notes that are magically adjusted, duplicated notes, date of note gets adjusted. Copy pasting will crash app and note data is corrupted... etc...ect... 

I am very curious why you do not think this is a bad development and believe that Evernote is on the right track. What signals did I miss? 

Hope you will or can answer this, because I hope the Evernote fixes things and is trustworthy again.

I often read "communication problems" or some variant of it in these forums. What do people mean by this? I've found Evernote in the last 2 years to be highly communicative. 

In general, as I've said, I'm a big fan of Evernote v 10. On Android and the web it is already so much better than the old apps, and the web app is moving forwards at a huge pace. The Android app is also regularly receiving updates.

I'm confused about Evernote running slow on iOS devices. It may be because Android just has a better javascript engine, but the Android version is really snappy (once it starts).

[ArjenC 124]

1 hour ago, ehrt74 said:

I often read "communication problems" or some variant of it in these forums.

When v10 was release this seemed like a normal release of the product. Within days it was clear V10 wasn't ment for real production... due to all kind of issues and bugs. I tried to contact support in every way possible, support tickets, social media, communities etc... default responses after days from some... even received message, on topic lossing data, after 17 days: install legacy, maybe it is recoverable... holly.. *** 
This overwhelm of support is also a big big signal that something was really really wrong with the release V10.

But never ever received any email, read any official blog about the issues some (whole companies) experienced. Only how great the new version is, but nothing about how stuff will be fixed. Not missing features, but serious bugs that makes Evernote a real pain in the ***

Again: if I didn't experience any issues and loss of data then I would stay too, maybe even defending Evernote. But seeing the real Evernote, the one who does not seem to be able to deal with problems, made me realize there is something wrong. If you think that a customer with issues is helped with some canned responses (it is a fast way to eliminate the support queue), you are wrong. And every question based on the given advise takes days to get a response... and it doesn't help... legacy on mobile? What, were, how?

My company left Evernote, and I know more and more companies are leaving or already left. Personally I'm trying other applications, in the meanwhile Evernote is my static database. So no real use anymore (thank for that), only searching if needed. When I decide which product will replace EV than data will be migrated.

But just wonder why people don't see it as a problem, data integrity must be prio 1, 2 and 3..

Thanks for asking, so I can refine my statement.👍 Hope you and others will not get into the *** like some others.
 

[ehrt74 240]

9 minutes ago, ArjenC said:

When v10 was release this seemed like a normal release of the product. Within days it was clear V10 wasn't ment for real production... due to all kind of issues and bugs. I tried to contact support in every way possible, support tickets, social media, communities etc... default responses after days from some... even received message, on topic lossing data, after 17 days: install legacy, maybe it is recoverable... holly.. *** 
This overwhelm of support is also a big big signal that something was really really wrong with the release V10.

But never ever received any email, read any official blog about the issues some (whole companies) experienced. Only how great the new version is, but nothing about how stuff will be fixed. Not missing features, but serious bugs that makes Evernote a real pain in the ***

Again: if I didn't experience any issues and loss of data then I would stay too, maybe even defending Evernote. But seeing the real Evernote, the one who does not seem to be able to deal with problems, made me realize there is something wrong. If you think that a customer with issues is helped with some canned responses (it is a fast way to eliminate the support queue), you are wrong. And every question based on the given advise takes days to get a response... and it doesn't help... legacy on mobile? What, were, how?

My company left Evernote, and I know more and more companies are leaving or already left. Personally I'm trying other applications, in the meanwhile Evernote is my static database. So no real use anymore (thank for that), only searching if needed. When I decide which product will replace EV than data will be migrated.

But just wonder why people don't see it as a problem, data integrity must be prio 1, 2 and 3..

Thanks for asking, so I can refine my statement.👍 Hope you and others will not get into the *** like some others.
 

Maybe i'm incorrect but i seem to remember Evernote clearly communicating that v10 was missing a lot of features and was buggy before they released it. They even recommended that customers stuck with the older versions, if I remember correctly.

[ArjenC 124]

1 minute ago, ehrt74 said:

Maybe i'm incorrect but i seem to remember Evernote clearly communicating that v10 was missing a lot of features and was buggy before they released it. They even recommended that customers stuck with the older versions, if I remember correctly.

I didn't see any of this... Some day i received an update message that V10 was released and if I want to install the version. Years (10+) of quality updates as track record... I never blinked and updated the release... Took some time, was happy... missed some features but read that new release should come quickly... 

Then i used the version, holy *****

Update on Andriod, same story... autou pdates pushes the new version. And still today, when looking on the Evernote pages, they want you to use V10.
Translated from my language, the page about install legacy software:

We realize there are situations where it is necessary or desirable to use an older version of Evernote. This version is available for a limited time while we are working on adding some of the legacy features to our new apps.

This seems to be based on missing features..., i don't miss features, I'm missing data and in some cases (copy pasting MS-Word data on Andriod) you loss existing notes as well... or when you edit screenshot taken with web clipper

[ehrt74 240]

2 minutes ago, ArjenC said:

I didn't see any of this... Some day i received an update message that V10 was released and if I want to install the version. Years (10+) of quality updates as track record... I never blinked and updated the release... Took some time, was happy... missed some features but read that new release should come quickly... 

Then i used the version, holy *****

Update on Andriod, same story... autou pdates pushes the new version. And still today, when looking on the Evernote pages, they want you to use V10.
Translated from my language, the page about install legacy software:

We realize there are situations where it is necessary or desirable to use an older version of Evernote. This version is available for a limited time while we are working on adding some of the legacy features to our new apps.

This seems to be based on missing features..., i don't miss features, I'm missing data and in some cases (copy pasting MS-Word data on Andriod) you loss existing notes as well... or when you edit screenshot taken with web clipper

I haven't yet lost data on the Android app. I don't use the desktop apps (just web and android) and in my experience both are much better than the legacy apps. 

However many people report problems with the new apps, so I presume these problems exist, it's just i haven't experienced them myself.

[gazumped 11,661]

Everyone is still unproductively arguing the same points - it was a disaster / the company didn't respond / missing features / Legacy is a stop-gap / support unavailable...  

Reality check: it happened already.  We are where we are. Nothing more to see here - please move on.

I played this theme before,  but - Evernote supports 250M users. That's like running a country three-quarters the size of the USA. These people all need 24/7/365 access to servers,  storage space,  support and processor time. 

They're a big company - the largest (I believe I saw quoted somewhere) repository of curated user data on the planet.  Big companies don't communicate well,  and they definitely do not 'apologise'.  It invites litigation.

IMHO they screwed up big time,  and it will take a while to work towards recovery.  But they are clearly moving swiftly in that direction,  with 8 update releases on most version 10 apps so far.

Meantime you have choices.

1. Find another provider (quietly please) that better suits your needs.
2. Stick with the new version and factually report issues and queries as they arise.
3. Avoid anything to do with this and stay on 'legacy' old versions until you feel inclined to come in from the cold.

AFAICS anything else is just unproductive wingeing - we all have tasks to complete;  lets find a way to work around any issues and just get things done.

[ArjenC 124]

1 minute ago, ehrt74 said:

However many people report problems with the new apps, so I presume these problems exist, it's just i haven't experienced them myself.

Count your blessings 👍. The issues I had are really frustrating... but every "crisis" brings new possibilities. This was a eye-opening event and made me realize that even a company as Evernote is a vulnerability when it comes to data safety and availability. 

[ArjenC 124]

@gazumped I get your point, but this is a discussion forum,  and in a topic called Hate the new Evernote you won't find positive messages. 

I know my options, and executed them as we speak. So I'm happy how things turn out at the end. But I'm curious why people, like you i seems, are not in doubt about this. 

The End...

[gazumped 11,661]

Just now, ArjenC said:

I'm curious why people, like you i seems, are not in doubt about this. 

 

10 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Reality check: it happened already. 

9 minutes ago, gazumped said:

IMHO they screwed up big time

I have an undoubted aversion to cold and snow,  but that doesn't stop them happening.  I just deal with the situation and get on with life.  I'm pragmatic about stuff.

[pansovic 68]

4 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

I often read "communication problems" or some variant of it in these forums. What do people mean by this? I've found Evernote in the last 2 years to be highly communicative. 

In general, as I've said, I'm a big fan of Evernote v 10. On Android and the web it is already so much better than the old apps, and the web app is moving forwards at a huge pace. The Android app is also regularly receiving updates.

I'm confused about Evernote running slow on iOS devices. It may be because Android just has a better javascript engine, but the Android version is really snappy (once it starts).

"once it starts" - doesn't that says everything? It doesn't even sync in the background, so you have to wait to get it all synced each time you open it on Android. Is that something that we have to accept 20 years in the 21st century, especially when the previous version was way much better?

Concerning the communication problems, we are referring that we are clueless about what is happening with EN because I think we all agree that putting a v10 on the market was not a healthy, smart, reasonable thing to do for a company. By the way, have you received any reply on a feature request? I send more than 20, and I never got any feedback. Of course, they must be overloaded. 

[pansovic 68]

2 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

I haven't yet lost data on the Android app. I don't use the desktop apps (just web and android) and in my experience both are much better than the legacy apps. 

However many people report problems with the new apps, so I presume these problems exist, it's just i haven't experienced them myself.

We talk about the desktop version. If you don't use it, then there is nothing to discuss.

[ehrt74 240]

8 minutes ago, pansovic said:

"once it starts" - doesn't that says everything? It doesn't even sync in the background, so you have to wait to get it all synced each time you open it on Android. Is that something that we have to accept 20 years in the 21st century, especially when the previous version was way much better?

Concerning the communication problems, we are referring that we are clueless about what is happening with EN because I think we all agree that putting a v10 on the market was not a healthy, smart, reasonable thing to do for a company. By the way, have you received any reply on a feature request? I send more than 20, and I never got any feedback. Of course, they must be overloaded. 

I'm not sure if the evernote android app syncs in the background. I'm not sure i'd want it to. it would just use up the battery. and it starts it 2-3 seconds anyway. 

I've had some replies to feature requests i've made. Evernote has been excellent at replying to bug reports btw. 

[toao 148]

On 2/15/2021 at 11:48 PM, FIFOF said:

E

N V10.8 for Mac : hope for the poor user we are?

like everyone here I try ro find my future EN

Since 2012 I had 13000 notes in my Macs some says it’s my second brain, it’s an everyday work with the Gtd process (thanks David) . I evaluate all alternatives  without success (Joplin, national, Bear...) and I discover  Roams Research.

i found the same exaltation ( so french !) when I discover EN, with a new way to  create notes.Roams permit you to link notes them in both the way. And I discover the ZETTELKASTEN method an incredible  process to build your references.

But...there is but...

How many times I spend to change? Is it dangerous for my data ? What did i lose in the end ?

The effort is too high !

And there is EN 10.8 I have tried and it seems better than the previous one. It misses many features essential for me but... we progress...

I think now it’s urgent to waiting for the next one.
And organise a big pressure to get what we want. I think now it’s possible.

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to look at DevonThink as you are a mac user...it is apple eco system only and is not as flexible in sharing data but otherwise superior to EN in any way that matters to me....also you can do backlinks like in roam or obsidian, however without the graph view at this point...

[toao 148]

16 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

But everybody can post his alternatives here - it got pretty quiet about that in the last weeks.

might be as people have simply left...like me for Devonthink...just checking in less and less frequently when feeling nostalgic..:-)

[CalS 5,280]

8 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

Maybe i'm incorrect but i seem to remember Evernote clearly communicating that v10 was missing a lot of features and was buggy before they released it.

Not really correct, particularly on IOS.  The new version landed with no warning other than glorious praise of how good it was.  Turned out to be a complete cluster.  IOS version is working its way back but still not the performance of before, as you say, particularly when starting up.  And it is full of new presses which don't help much.

Pretty much the same on Windows other than one could backtrack to the previous version.  I tried V10 for about 15 minutes back in October and have not been back since.  Monitoring the forums to see if Win EN makes its way back, particularly with performance and the key for me missing features.

My subscription renewed in November so I didn't have much choice but to re-up.  So I have until this November (or the sunsetting of 6.25) to determine what to do.  IAC I have to do something with local notebooks their having been dropped.  It's just a question of does the synced stuff stay with EN or move.  My preference to stay as I would as soon avoid any work.  But the process to accommodate that is not in my hands.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

Hi. I am on Mac and iOS. I don’t hate the new Evernote (thread title), but they have removed support for features I used to use, features I rely on do not work as well, I have experienced numerous bugs, and nothing I see in the current directory of app development meets my needs or promises to improve my situation. That’s a grim assessment, I am afraid.

This update may be a wonderful one for many users, but it hasn’t been for me. In particular, there is no opt-out for iOS. One day your workflow is just destroyed by a sub-par experience, and that is that. There is an opt-out for the Mac, but when you see how the rollout was bungled and what is in store for the future, it’s not a terribly great incentive to re-up. It’s not as if the Legacy version is perfect, either.

<Re-up?>
I am due to renew my premium subscription in one week (my forum account is different than my regular one). I turned off the automatic renewal when I experienced the update. I haven’t decided yet if I will let the subscription lapse, but it seems likely at this point. This isn’t a rage quit post. I am not leaving. I am still going to have the app installed on all of my devices. I’ll continue using it. I just may not be able to justify the cost for its greatly diminished role in my workflow. I want to support companies and their employees when they make products I use and enjoy, but this is such a mess, I’m thinking it doesn’t make sense when my usage has plummeted to just a tiny fraction of what it was.

<What went wrong?>
I’d like to see Evernote do a better job with its rollout of updates, and I would like it to rethink some of its development decisions. Evernote does a lot of things really well, like its syncing, and the general structure of having data in a note as a container linking its contents to other note containers in a flat hierarchy (at least, on the backend). Brilliant. But, that’s been there for 12+ years. Who thought stripping down the sync controls / information (resulting in sync conflicts) would be an improvement? Who thought completely blank notes (I guess while stuff that ought to habe been there already loads) is an improvement, especially on iOS? Who thought making us double-click links would make sense (yes, I realize there is a shortcut-key workaround, but why)? Who thought limiting the amount of notes we can select would improve our workflows? Who thought hiding note content from Spotlight searches would help us? I wonder how many heavy users of the app were brought into the development process.

<Evernote wish list>

- Encrypted notes (all content) and notebooks (Apple Notes, DEVONthink, OneNote, etc. have had equivalent features for years now). Getting rid of local notebooks leaves many of us with no option but to shift sensitive / confidential work to other apps. Eventually, we just migrate other stuff away as well, and then we wonder why we still have a subscription to an app that insufficiently values privacy and security. 

- Fine-grained control over features. Make a default sync, display, etc. for users who don’t care. Give us options for displaying sync information, managing syncs, etc. 

- Improve searches, especially for CJK languages.Search results have often been poor in the past, but now we are stuck with Evernote only, so you have to do better.

- Make Evernote data searchable in Spotlight.This would at least lessen the frustration with search deficiencies in the app.

- The editor still has irritating bugs. I generally don’t get too worked up about such things, but if the rewrite from the ground up was supposed to fix things, but produced a buggy editor instead, especially on iOS, then something has gone terribly wrong. Please don’t ever dump half-baked products onto iOS, because we are stuck with the mistakes.

* Evernote is a great idea, I’ve spent over a decade with it and enjoyed interactions with the wonderful employees, and it seems to have a capable CEO at the helm. Everything is in place to do well, but somehow the design process designed me and my workflow out of the app. Mybe that’s OK for the company, who is angling for better users, but anecdotally speaking, it is not so great for me. At any rate, I am not leaving, and I’ll be keeping an eye on the app, wishing Evernote and all its users well.

[DTLow 5,736]

On 2/17/2021 at 10:39 AM, CalS said:

My subscription renewed in November so I didn't have much choice but to re-up.  So I have until this November (or the sunsetting of 6.25) to determine what to do.

 

On 2/17/2021 at 12:50 PM, GrumpyMonkey said:

<Re-up?>
I am due to renew my premium subscription in one week (my forum account is different than my regular one). I turned off the automatic renewal when I experienced the update. I haven’t decided yet if I will let the subscription lapse, but it seems likely at this point.

I renewed until October 2021, but turned off the automatic renewal
I'm currently using Evernote Legacy on my Mac, but doubt I'll continue after October
Not a hater; the new Evernote doesn't meet my requirements

I've always maintained an Evernote exit plan, more solidly developed in these problem months
I'm completely ready to switch from Evernote at any time

[tavor 668]

Hey GM, haven't seen you around in a while.  😀

8 minutes ago, GrumpyMonkey said:

Encrypted notes (all content) and notebooks (Apple Notes, DEVONthink, OneNote, etc. have had equivalent features for years now). Getting rid of local notebooks leaves many of us with no option but to shift sensitive / confidential work to other apps. Eventually, we just migrate other stuff away as well, and then we wonder why we still have a subscription to an app that insufficiently values privacy and security. 

Similar boat. The abandonment of Local Notebooks combined with no zero knowledge encryption forces me to move a decent portion of my notes to another platform. And then the question is, is Evernote so great that it's worth keeping my not-so-confidential notes on one platform and my more confidential notes on another platform? That's what I've been facing as I use another note app as my daily driver where all new notes are created. And the answer for me is increasingly, "No" - it's becoming too much of a hassle to remember which platform a note is in, or run searches on both platforms.

Evernote is still the top dog for web clipping, so at this point my thinking is all my notes go to one platform, and use Evernote for web clips on difficult websites. 

 

[tavor 668]

6 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I renewed until October 2021, but turned off the automatic renewal
I'm currently using Evernote Legacy on my Mac, but doubt I'll continue after October
Not a hater; Evernote no longer meets my requirements

😲

We need our resident Officer Barbrady @gazumpedto get us to avert our eyes. "Nothing to see here folks, move along."  😛

[Lemini 12]

24 minutes ago, GrumpyMonkey said:

- Improve searches, especially for CJK languages.Search results have often been poor in the past, but now we are stuck with Evernote only, so you have to do better.

+1 to this wish. I recently found out that you can only have two languages (English + one more) active at a time in search which is such an oversight. I don't understand the thinking that if someone is multilingual they're always going to want language + english instead of language + language.

[gazumped 11,661]

10 minutes ago, Lemini said:

which is such an oversight.

I'd doubt it's an oversight as such.  The app is being (re)developed from very little in the way of features.  To avoid having to update translations each time you add a new process,  you wait until it's pretty much complete and then add translations.  An unfortunate result of a complete rebuild - though of course all languages are still available in Legacy...

[Lemini 12]

4 minutes ago, gazumped said:

I'd doubt it's an oversight as such.  The app is being (re)developed from very little in the way of features.  To avoid having to update translations each time you add a new process,  you wait until it's pretty much complete and then add translations.  An unfortunate result of a complete rebuild - though of course all languages are still available in Legacy...

This is actually a server side issue. The person that responded to my ticket confirmed that the OCR search will only work with the language settings you have set on your account (which I had to log into the web client to change) and the only language options in the menu are pairs that include English.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

2 hours ago, Lemini said:

This is actually a server side issue. The person that responded to my ticket confirmed that the OCR search will only work with the language settings you have set on your account (which I had to log into the web client to change) and the only language options in the menu are pairs that include English.

Search will work for any language combination, as far as I know, but OCR is only done for certain language combinations, and this is one reason why I OCR before putting things in Evernote. Of course, this raises the question: why use Evernote at all if feature X isn't working for you?

The problem, as I see it, is that Evernote is probably designed really well for someone who is not me. Again, this isn't necessarily a criticism of Evernote. They have to make design decisions. However, their design decisions increasingly reflect a certain kind of workflow that doesn't fit me--multiple language use, especially with CJK, which tend to require different thinking about search. Some problems I have had for over a decade, and I pop into the forums every once in a while to poke Evernote about them (woefully inadequate encryption options). Others come up with each update that removes or radically alters stuff to "improve" the app. 

@tavor

Good to see you I have posted a few times since the latest update, but I have tried to refrain from saying too much, because I wanted to see how they got this mess sorted without gumming up the works. Unfortunately, in my case, there has been almost no progress on the issues I need to see resolved, so now that I am hitting up against my renewal date, I wanted to let Evernote and other users know my thought processes. It may serve as some useful data for someone. 

@DTLow

Yep. Same here. Well, actually, I've been using a bunch of apps over a decade or so, with Evernote as my main work application sometimes, and shifting work to other ones when Evernote has hit bumps in the road. There is nothing quite like Evernote, but there are some great alternatives (they meet my needs in different ways), and for some reason Evernote has chosen to make its core features even less appealing to someone with my workflow. This time, it seems more like a detour and an entirely new direction, pushing me off onto the bumpy shoulder, so I may not renew for a while. We'll see. 

 

[tavor 668]

I Believe It May Finally Be Time to Say Goodbye to the Green Elephant

https://dbvirago.medium.com/i-believe-it-may-finally-be-time-to-say-goodbye-to-the-green-elephant-18c6bdb0cd05

[gazumped 11,661]

16 minutes ago, tavor said:

I Believe It May Finally Be Time to Say Goodbye to the Green Elephant

https://dbvirago.medium.com/i-believe-it-may-finally-be-time-to-say-goodbye-to-the-green-elephant-18c6bdb0cd05

Okay.  Bye..

[Kolmir 162]

12 hours ago, tavor said:

I Believe It May Finally Be Time to Say Goodbye to the Green Elephant

https://dbvirago.medium.com/i-believe-it-may-finally-be-time-to-say-goodbye-to-the-green-elephant-18c6bdb0cd05

Yep. He's right. EvN is no more a premium brand, they are now in mass production business. Providing only fast/junk food kind of services. This will not change any time soon. Moreover, v10 is slow, clunky, and unreliable garbage.

February is for me my last month as an active/premium user. Bye 😉

By the way - migration to the other tool wasn't that scary. I re-discovered a lot of notes which I forgot. I find a few new ways to manage my notes/knowledge. It's good to change.

[pansovic 68]

3 minutes ago, Kolmir said:

Yep. He's right. EvN is no more a premium brand, they are now in mass production business. Providing only fast/junk food kind of services. This will not change any time soon. Moreover, v10 is slow, clunky, and unreliable garbage.

February is for me my last month as an active/premium user. Bye 😉

By the way - migration to the other tool wasn't that scary. I re-discovered a lot of notes which I forgot. I find a few new ways to manage my notes/knowledge. It's good to change.

And you moved to what? I am exploring Joplin, ClickUp, Nimbus, but I haven't found one alternative where the import is flawless. It seems to me that it will be a lengthy move, one note at a time. Then we will end up with some historic Evernotes and newer notes on a second platform, which means losing the great search tool of Evernote to find everything.

[ArjenC 124]

4 minutes ago, pansovic said:

And you moved to what? I am exploring Joplin, ClickUp, Nimbus, but I haven't found one alternative where the import is flawless. It seems to me that it will be a lengthy move, one note at a time. Then we will end up with some historic Evernotes and newer notes on a second platform, which means losing the great search tool of Evernote to find everything.

This is a struggle, that's correct. All tools have different approaches and features. So not all data can be converted that well. Don't know what breaks in your case, but I moved and keep my Evernote database static in BASIC. Later this year (maybe next year) I evaluate the times I searched in Evernote, if this is a couple of times (or not at all) i will delete it... 

Most of my data is migrated, some notes are broken but information is still there .. so not a problem for now. 

[tavor 668]

1 hour ago, ArjenC said:

This is a struggle, that's correct. All tools have different approaches and features. So not all data can be converted that well. Don't know what breaks in your case, but I moved and keep my Evernote database static in BASIC. Later this year (maybe next year) I evaluate the times I searched in Evernote, if this is a couple of times (or not at all) i will delete it... 

Most of my data is migrated, some notes are broken but information is still there .. so not a problem for now. 

This is my approach as well. If you move your notes elsewhere, that doesn't mean you have to delete your notes from Evernote - like @ArjenC, you can keep these notes in Evernote in static form (i.e.,  you don't edit these notes). If you run into a major issue with a note in your new platform, you can go see the original version of that note in Evernote and figure out how to replicate that in your new platform.

To the point of importing into other platforms, keep in mind that even importing enex files back into Evernote itself is lossy (your note links go bye-bye). There is no standard export format in the note app space. One of the smoothest imports is from EN to Joplin (use 1.7.x as there have been many edge case improvements in that import process). And there are many export options from Joplin (export options are an important factor when considering note apps - make sure you aren't locking yourself in; and indeed, EN's lossy enex format is a bit of a lock-in on users with extensive note links - there are workarounds, but ideally you wouldn't have to work around a lossy export to begin with).

[Vidalia 23]

Quote

This is my approach as well. If you move your notes elsewhere, that doesn't mean you have to delete your notes from Evernote

I did the same. I moved my regular notes out of EN and left remaining in EN. I still log in to EN and pull notes when necessary. This way I never had to do any big bang migration.

I am also not replacing EN with any single product. Apps are like tools. There are several screwdrivers in one's toolbox. So I now use specific apps for specific purpose - like Notion for project management, OneNote for those notes which I must need without internet etc.

It seemed crazy at first but now it has become part of my workflow. It never happened that I can't remember which thing I kept in which app. So I feel having all notes in one platform is kind of overhyped concept.

 

[DTLow 5,736]

1 hour ago, tavor said:

your note links go bye-bye

btw    When moving to a new product, those links are still valid;    
           except they point back to Evernote

Another good reason for not deleting your Evernote data

[Kolmir 162]

4 hours ago, pansovic said:

And you moved to what? I am exploring Joplin, ClickUp, Nimbus, but I haven't found one alternative where the import is flawless. It seems to me that it will be a lengthy move, one note at a time. Then we will end up with some historic Evernotes and newer notes on a second platform, which means losing the great search tool of Evernote to find everything.

There is no one perfect solution 😉

This time I chose to diversify. I put part of my notes into Apple-Notes, most of them into OneNote*, and PDF/files into Google-Drive (priv) and One-Drive* (biz)

Export from EvN 6.25 and then import into Apple or OneNote is pretty good. No major complains.

My approach was: one EvN notebook (or small stack) at the time.

[*] I use full/desktop version of OneNote, I have MSOffice subscription.

[kongulu 11]

SLOW SLOW SLOW

The biggest problem the new EN faces is speed. I am afraid that they have chosen to sacrifice speed for the benefits of a less complicated development environment. Maybe this is a good decision for Evernote, but for my use case it is a disaster. I am worried that the new speed problem of the new EN is not solvable, and that my type of user will need to transition to a program capable of handling heavier loads and larger databases in a responsive manner.

After checking in on the competition, I believe Evernote legacy is still the best option for frequent web clippers and large "heavy multi-media" note databases. I have over 32,000 notes in an image intensive database.

However, the competition is closing in, while EN seems to be sliding backward in some ways. The fate of EN will be decided in the next 24 months. I suspect there are a large number of premium users becoming increasingly interested in an EN alternative.

I suppose management is going for mass market Macdonald's type software, but the competition in this area is intense and I do not think the current EN has the management DNA to compete in this category. But if that is where the money is then I can not blame them for following the herd.

In my use case I am not interested in a dumbed-down mass market product. I want a heavy-duty, fast and long term reliable database to preserve all my work. I happily pay the Evernote premium subscription, even as I worry that Evernote is migrating away from my type of user.

I wish there was an economic model that supported a premium user personal database, and I wish there was a company that believed in that vision.

Here is a link for those interested in exploring the EN competition

https://www.noteapps.info/

 

[tavor 668]

28 minutes ago, kongulu said:

Here is a link those interested in exploring the EN competition

https://www.noteapps.info/

 

That site is a good starting point, but be aware that the site is updated by one person, and he's not spending his days checking for updates on all these note apps. So essentially the site is only as current as the messages he gets from people pointing out changes in particular apps.

For example, Joplin has features that are incorrectly reported as being absent - daily notes/templates, pdf viewed within note, E2EE, export note links, Linux app, backlinks, intra-note links, notebook hierarchy, shortcuts, etc.

Another example is Evernote, which is listed as having E2EE, which it absolutely does not.

My advice for dissatisfied EN users is use the noteapps.info site to get a general overview of the competitive landscape, but don't take the specific feature list for any app literally, as it could be very out of date. If you are interested in an app, install it and import just your current working notes and use the app as your daily driver for a couple of weeks. If it fails your test drive, it's easy to import those notes back to Evernote, and you can try out another app. 

[pansovic 68]

25 minutes ago, tavor said:

That site is a good starting point, but be aware that the site is updated by one person, and he's not spending his days checking for updates on all these note apps. So essentially the site is only as current as the messages he gets from people pointing out changes in particular apps.

For example, Joplin has features that are incorrectly reported as being absent - daily notes/templates, pdf viewed within note, E2EE, export note links, Linux app, backlinks, intra-note links, notebook hierarchy, shortcuts, etc.

Another example is Evernote, which is listed as having E2EE, which it absolutely does not.

My advice for dissatisfied EN users is use the noteapps.info site to get a general overview of the competitive landscape, but don't take the specific feature list for any app literally, as it could be very out of date. If you are interested in an app, install it and import just your current working notes and use the app as your daily driver for a couple of weeks. If it fails your test drive, it's easy to import those notes back to Evernote, and you can try out another app. 

ClickUp is another alternative which is not in the https://www.noteapps.info/.I have been exploring it, but not yet convinced as a replacement for EN Legacy