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Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks

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You never mentioned an intimate knowledge of Evernote code. You said, "people who have no intimate knowledge about a particular piece of software."

You're really reaching here. Oh, well, if that's what floats your boat.

i can't imagine subfolders represent much of a hurdle technically for EN, .

when it's so easy to implement.

Neither you or dloebs or me or anyone else who does not work for EN can know what's easy to implement. Period.

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can't we just say we would REALLY like to have this feature and leave it at that? they don't seem willing to say if it is a technical or a management decision, until we do we cannot know. I would really like to be able to group my searchable notes in bundles together so i can find them in groups by browsing in addition to the searching method, i hope others would as well.

brad

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Thanks to those who posted long examples of how they organize/manage with tags & searches, instead of subfolders. I, too, am craving subfolders and find it very awkward to get going without them. It was hard to wrap my mind around how to organize with tags & use searches, so the detailed extended examples were very helpful.

If the Evernote team is reading, I'd love to see the Tips & Tricks blog (& videos) have articles that focus on how exactly people organize their stuff. I'd also, just for the record, love to see subnotebooks too. :?

Thanks,

Karen

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can't we just say we would REALLY like to have this feature and leave it at that? they don't seem willing to say if it is a technical or a management decision, until we do we cannot know. I would really like to be able to group my searchable notes in bundles together so i can find them in groups by browsing in addition to the searching method, i hope others would as well.

Yes, you can say that, and I believe that your opinion is welcomed by Evernote staff. Me, I don't really care to organize my notes in hierarchical folders, as tags are plenty for me. I understand that others want that, but I've seen no interest in providing that in anything I've read by Evernote staff, so it's a moot point for me.

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Hello,

I have just registered and I cannot find option which is necessary for me if I would still be using Evernote.

I'd like to create hierarchical tree (similarly as directories in Windows, Linux or any other operating system) to put my notes to the proper categories, subcategories, sub-subcategories and so on. Is there such a possibility?

Regards!

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Nope. Each note in inside of exactly one notebook. Notebooks can be nested, to one level, inside a Stack, but you cannot nest a notebook inside another notebook. Stacks cannot be nested. Notes can be associated with tags, and tags can be organized in a hierarchical tree, but they are not themselves functionally hierarchical. There's plenty of discussion here on the forums on this topic, if you care to search.

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Thank you for your answer!

I have tried to find topics on the forum with the word "hierarchical" and found this (viewtopic.php?f=56&t=24233&p=104002&hilit=hierarchical#p104002). It looks like this person does with the tags what I'd like to do with them. That's not intuitive way (maybe better, maybe worse, I don't know - using it will answer me if it is good way) from my point of view but at least it offers the same functionality which I'd like to have (and that's the most important).

However, I have also checked the help to find in the most popular questions how to nest the tags. There was no such a question here (http://www.evernote.com/about/kb/search ... ledge+Base) and the most similar topic was "An Introduction to Tags" (http://www.evernote.com/about/kb/articl ... gs?lang=en). Unfortunately, the picture in that article doesn't look like what I see when I log in to my Evernote account. I see tags at the left of the window. I don't see any picture in that article describing how to nest tags. So - how to nest tags?

I don't quite understand the terms which you use. Is it something like default hierarchy which looks like:

-> stack

-> -> notebook

-> -> -> note

I don't see any need to have more than one, default stack.

In other words, please, tell me how to nest tags as shown on this picture (http://i.imgur.com/TlJKX.png) in this thread (viewtopic.php?f=56&t=24233&p=104002&hilit=hierarchical#p104002). I couldn't find the answer here (http://www.evernote.com/about/kb/search ... ledge+Base).

Regards!

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Tags are nested by merely dragging and dropping in the tag tree. Drop a tag onto another tag, and the tag (and all of its children) will become nested under the second tag. Drop a tag on the "Tags" label (it's not a real tag) and the tag and its children will become top-level tags.

Stacks are merely collections of notebooks; they're nice because they allow you to organize your notebook list (you have a max of 250 notebooks -- managing them as a flat list can be onerous) and certain operations, like search can be applied on a stack of notebooks. Notebooks are merely flat collections of notes.Notebooks and stacks appear in the Notebooks list. Stacks cannot be nested: if you drag a stack onto another stack, the notebooks will be moved from the first stack into the second stack, and the first stack will be deleted. Notebooks cannot be nested in other notebooks. However, notebooks and stacks coexist in the root of the Notebooks list; stacks are there to allow you to organize that list better.

The Knowledge Base is a work in progress, and more topics are being added.

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Thank you for your answers!

I have been looking for such a solution for some time and the alternative websites with notes (notebooks) had much lower functionality. I'm glad that I have found this useful website and got good support from the forum. And now I know how to nest the tags.

Now I just wonder if those have to automatically be grouped alphabetically (what I don't want to happen) but perhaps I will check it later. There are two other things which I will check sooner or later, about security of my data (e.g. encryption on server and ability to make backup of the data myself by saving it on the hard disc) and capabilities (limitations in the number of notes, tags etc.). I guess tutorial based on screen shots or, what would be even better, movie on youtube, would be very useful. But for now I know all the things which I need to start using the notebook with hierarchically nested tags. Maybe with exception for alphabetical sorting but I'm going to check it in a moment.

Regards!

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I am interested in other people's alternative solutions to hierarchy trees using Evernote. I am new to the software, and am accustomed to the hierarchical approach. How would you approach the following simple example to keep notes organized...

Art Projects

- Current Projects

* Project Name 1

* Project Name 2

- New Ideas

* Idea 1

* Idea 2

Design Projects

- Bidding

- Concepts

- Resources

and so on...

Thanks for your input.

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I am interested in other people's alternative solutions to hierarchy trees using Evernote. I am new to the software, and am accustomed to the hierarchical approach. How would you approach the following simple example to keep notes organized...

Art Projects

- Current Projects

* Project Name 1

* Project Name 2

- New Ideas

* Idea 1

* Idea 2

Design Projects

- Bidding

- Concepts

- Resources

and so on...

Thanks for your input.

Tags.

(Search the board, if you need more info. This has been discussed a lot, already.)

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Can't help myself; all the discussion about notebook hierarchies in an unstructured, dynamic storage and retrieval system is interesting. Sometimes less is better than more (general search having to be reliable for sure). :)

(Resurrecting an old post from an old thread that someone else resurrected.)

If I'm understanding you correctly, I absolutely agree. I have thousands (literally) of notes in EN & rarely have a problem finding the one I'm looking for. I primarily search all notebooks with "keywords" and sometimes tags. I almost never use saved searches.

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I am interested in other people's alternative solutions to hierarchy trees using Evernote. I am new to the software, and am accustomed to the hierarchical approach. How would you approach the following simple example to keep notes organized...

I would toss the notes for all these subjects into one single notebook and tag the notes accordingly.

Tag examples:

  • Art-current
    Art-job
    Art-idea
    Des-bid
    Des-idea
    Des-ref
    And then some tags to describe the specific jobs or ideas (Metropolitan Museum, Louvre, Tate Museum, etc)

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I'd really love to hear more suggestions on creating "hierarchies". I'm experimenting with Evernote as a permanent solution to my info management project, and not having a fairly intuitive way to build in a structure that mimics an outline format could very well be the showstopper for me. Which I would hate because I really love everything else about Evernote.

And sorry, 10,000 tags is not enough for me IF that is the only way I can create hierarchies. (If Evernote really works for me, I would end up with *at least* 50,000 individual outline elements.) Stacks won't work because I need at least four levels deep for my projects. I have tried the "double naming" concept (Contacts-Work, Contacts-School, etc), but that does not truly express the nuances of why I use hierarchies in my research projects.

I love how OneNote allows for infinite amount of hierarchal organization (which is really the only thing I like about it). Even a free blog on Wordpress allows for very complex hierarchies of "categories", so it's hard for me to believe such a concept is too difficult to do. I'm really surprised and sad that Evernote doesn't have some kind of more robust hierarchy functionality.

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I'd really love to hear more suggestions on creating "hierarchies". I'm experimenting with Evernote as a permanent solution to my info management project, and not having a fairly intuitive way to build in a structure that mimics an outline format could very well be the showstopper for me. Which I would hate because I really love everything else about Evernote.

And sorry, 10,000 tags is not enough for me IF that is the only way I can create hierarchies. (If Evernote really works for me, I would end up with 50,000 individual outline elements.) Stacks won't work because I need at least four levels deep for my projects. I have tried the "double naming" concept (Contacts-Work, Contacts-School, etc), but that does not truly express the nuances of why I use hierarchies in my research projects.

I love how OneNote allows for infinite amount of hierarchal organization (which is really the only thing I like about it). Even a free blog on Wordpress allows for very complex hierarchies of "categories", so it's hard for me to believe such a concept is too difficult to do. I'm really surprised and sad that Evernote doesn't have some kind of more robust hierarchy functionality.

I suggest you read some of the existing threads on tags vs sub-folders/sub-notebooks. Many people (including myself) have posted extensive posts about how to use tags. IMO & IME, if you're using anywhere near 10,000 tags (or more), then you're overtagging. (I have just under 40,000 notes & probably only have ~150 tags.)

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Thank you, I will look at previous posts. If you could, it would help me greatly if you could suggest either some specific threads or good keyword searches to find these posts.

I agree with you that anything over 10,000 in *tags* says that some reanalysis is necessary. However, my scenario assumed I was using tags, in a sense, as a substitute for creating pure hierarchy-based info organization. I would much rather use tags as they are meant to be used in all info management systems. :)

My project work has been going on for 25 years and truly does require tens of thousands of hierarchal levels because the information itself requires that kind of breakdown. Trust me, I am NOT partial to very complex hierarchies or to breaking down information to insignificant detail; my work actually is trying to pull these details up into less complex models. But I have to start with the details. :)

Thanks again!

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I don't use tags or multiple notebooks at all. Instead I use keywords in the titles of all my notes. Here are some example note titles:

myco - TODO = my TODO list at My Company, where I work.

myco - proj1 - mtg notes = all my meeting notes about Project1 at My Company.

myco - proj1 - work notes = my ongoing work notes about how I'm implementing Project1.

etc...

Then I have a saved search for "intitle:myco". I click on that, then I can do a "intitle:proj1" search to get just myco / proj1 notes. Doing a search after clicking on a saved search will search only within the saved search results so it's kind of like a refined search.

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I don't use tags or multiple notebooks at all. Instead I use keywords in the titles of all my notes. Here are some example note titles:

That's fine, but working with tags is generally better supported in Evernote than is working with free text in titles. For example, in the Windows client, you have an easy way to tag multiple notes, which would be difficult to do with keywords in titles. You must be very disciplined. :D

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Or they could add Stacked Stacks for those people (and this topic keeps coming up enough times to indicate its a not-insignificant number) who want to use "notebook level hierarchy" since adding it shouldn't in any way force anyone to change the way they currently use Enote if they don't want to.

Those who want Stacks within stacks (in other words a Project > Section > Subsection way of organising their notes without resorting to tags) are happy.

Those who just want to use Tags are happy as the change in no way effects them.

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Or they could add Stacked Stacks

I'd guess they would have done this from the get go, if it were feasible. As you can see from Dave Engberg's post above, EN has suggested using tags, instead of the "sub notebook" way of organizing notes.

Additonally, stacks currently aren't even rolled out on all platforms. Since the iPhone app has been totally redone since stacks were rolled out on the Windows/Mac desktops and it does not have stacks, I'd guess that stacks aren't that easy to implement on the various platforms that EN supports. I would imagine stacked stacks would be at least as problematic.

As has been said multiple times before on the board, if you plan on using Evernote very much, you need to learn to be comfortable with using notebooks, tags, keywords & stacks (single level) for organizing your notes. Otherwise, you should find another app.

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Thank you, I will look at previous posts. If you could, it would help me greatly if you could suggest either some specific threads or good keyword searches to find these posts.

I agree with you that anything over 10,000 in *tags* says that some reanalysis is necessary. However, my scenario assumed I was using tags, in a sense, as a substitute for creating pure hierarchy-based info organization. I would much rather use tags as they are meant to be used in all info management systems. :D

My project work has been going on for 25 years and truly does require tens of thousands of hierarchal levels because the information itself requires that kind of breakdown. Trust me, I am NOT partial to very complex hierarchies or to breaking down information to insignificant detail; my work actually is trying to pull these details up into less complex models. But I have to start with the details. :)

I understand where you are coming from. I am in the same boat as you of liking what it does, while being disappointed with what it does not do. My professional work is also very project oriented and personally I would never attempt to use EN for it, but maybe you'll be able to adapt it to your work. I don't know what is driving you to EN but IF you only need a desktop application you may want to take a look at InfoQube. InfoQube has no mobile client of any type though, it is strictly a desktop app. From a power users standpoint it makes EN look like a toy, but like everything it has its own shortcomings, and the GUI is not as beautiful as EN's. OneNote, EN and InfoQube are the three PIM's/info managers I like. IQ is the most powerful by far but also the most obtuse.

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Evernote is a very handy tool but to ever gain the corporate market, tags will never suffice for folders & sub-folders. Tags are a great search tool but not an organization structure. Really Evernote boys... how difficult can sub-folders be? So please consider sub-folders or sub-stacks... even Google gave up with tags in email and went imap and the folders route!

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Evernote is a very handy tool but to ever gain the corporate market, tags will never suffice for folders & sub-folders. Tags are a great search tool but not an organization structure. Really Evernote boys... how difficult can sub-folders be? So please consider sub-folders or sub-stacks... even Google gave up with tags in email and went imap and the folders route!

First, Evernote is not trying to be in the corporate market. As an aside, there's no reason the corporate world couldn't adjust to tags, which function pretty much the same way as nested folders do. (shrug)

Second, I don't know how difficult it would be to implement sub-notebooks/stacks, nor do you. However, I think it's safe to assume that if it were all that easy to implement across all the platforms EN lives on, that either they or someone else would have done it.

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Evernote is a very handy tool but to ever gain the corporate market...

Some comments from the Evernote CTO about their past experiences with corporate software issues found at this link.

  • "Basically, a bunch of the people who built Evernote have a lot of experience in the "Enterprise software sales" business, and it's completely 180-degree different than Evernote's "freemium" personal memory service. It's hard to do both business models under the same roof, in my experience."
http://forum.evernote.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=24540&p=105140&hilit=experience#p105140

And Phil Libin, the Evernote CEO said:

  • "You're right about corporate being the revenue stream for most tech vendors, but happily that's not the case for us. Our direct consumer revenues from premium subscriptions and partner products are more than enough to make us a profitable and sustainable long-term company. The consumer business is booming for us and we have no financial incentive to switch focus."

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Evernote is a very handy tool but to ever gain the corporate market, tags will never suffice for folders & sub-folders.

Interestingly, I'm currently working on some software for a multi-national, multi-billion dollar enterprise customer that is completely tag driven.

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I can create a stack of two notebooks. Is it possible to create a stack of more than two notebooks? Has anyone tried this.

Thanks

Mahesh

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Mahesh,

Yes, you can have more than 2 notebooks in a stack. Just right-click on the stack and choose "Create Notebook in ..."

For existing notebooks, just drag the notebook onto the stack.

Thanks,

Max

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Thanks Max.

I'm not sure if I conveyed the message properly. What I meant by 'multiple notebooks in a stack' is having multiple levels of notebooks. When I do 'right click' on a notebook it gives the option of adding the notebook at the top level 'notebook'.

NB1

|

+----NB2

.......|

.......+----NB3

............. |

..............+----NB4

(ignore the dots, I had to insert there to get the right format)

I know following works:

NB1

|

+---- NB2

|

+---- NB3

|

+---- NB4

Thanks

Mahesh

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Mahesh,

From what I understand, you are asking for multiple levels of notebook stacks. Evernote does not support it. You can only have notebooks in a stack, you cannot have another stack inside a stack.

Thanks,

Max

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Interestingly, I'm currently working on some software for a multi-national, multi-billion dollar enterprise customer that is completely tag driven.

You forgot to mention what you are working on. A CRM system? Maybe on the LHR? So even it is "enterprise" and "multi-billion dollar" it is not necessarily justifies not having a tree structure in information organizing.

Facts: people usually use computers, and those computer organize information in file-systems, and it is logical. Therefore it is no wonder these people would like to use the same information organizing method they have been used to for ages.

Why these people don't accept the logic behind the "we have only tags instead of notebook hierarchy"? Because Evernote has hierarchy, although it is 1 level deep.

A flat level tag system will never be able to organize information like a file-system or a tree hieararchy would do, because the tags currently used in Evernote have no hierarchy, so you can't reproduce this in Evernote: foo/bar/foo/bar.

Not to mention that small work I have to do when I want to move a bunch of my notes form one place to another. Currently it has to be done by renaming tags (for the missing depth in hieararchy) and moving those notes (because Evernote has that 1 level deep hierarchy).

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A flat level tag system will never be able to organize information like a file-system or a tree hieararchy would do, because the tags currently used in Evernote have no hierarchy, so you can't reproduce this in Evernote: foo/bar/foo/bar

You can't have that exact wording but you can replicate it enough to be at least as useful while being so more flexible than sub folders, which end up being restrictive when you have thousands of notes. You do have to think outside the box. This has been already discussed in depth many times on the board, so please use the search function for more info.

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And yet, the topic of structure (be it sub notebooks or stacked stacks) keeps coming up. That in and of itself says something.

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And yet, the topic of structure (be it sub notebooks or stacked stacks) keeps coming up. That in and of itself says something.

As is the case with so many new ideas, that some people are opposed to change or learning a newer, better way of doing something. :)

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In the end I think you have to accept that Evernote are not going to implement a deeper hierarchy than Stacks and Notebooks. They have been very very clear about this.

If this design doesn't work for you, well then maybe Evernote is not the right application for you.

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As is the case with so many new ideas, that some people are opposed to change or learning a newer, better way of doing something. :)

That is an incredibly arrogant and insulting position to take. Even with the smiley. I suggest you look in a mirror. Your way is not the ONLY correct way of doing things. It is painfully obvious that the virtual organisation that tagging employs is simply not enough for some people. And insulting people with opposing viewpoints is not the way to evangelise a product. :-x

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As is the case with so many new ideas, that some people are opposed to change or learning a newer, better way of doing something. :)

That is an incredibly arrogant and insulting position to take. Even with the smiley. I suggest you look in a mirror. Your way is not the ONLY correct way of doing things. It is painfully obvious that the virtual organisation that tagging employs is simply not enough for some people. And insulting people with opposing viewpoints is not the way to evangelise a product. :-x

It's not my way. It's Evernote's way. I didn't invent it & I had a bit of trouble adapting at first, too. But once I realized the tags are every bit as useful as nested sub folders and yet offered so much more flexibility, then I was sold.

And, IMO, the best way to evangelize a product is to show people how to use it as it is, rather than gnash their teeth, wring their hands & lament the lack of a feature that does not exist & (from all indications) may never exist in the product. Of course, for some people, that will be a deal killer & that's why there are other apps out there.

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That is an incredibly arrogant and insulting position to take. Even with the smiley. I suggest you look in a mirror. Your way is not the ONLY correct way of doing things. It is painfully obvious that the virtual organisation that tagging employs is simply not enough for some people. And insulting people with opposing viewpoints is not the way to evangelise a product. :-x

Funny, I keep getting the sense that people who want a more defined hierarchy seem to think that their way is the only valid way. If how EN has chosen to do things doesn't work for you AND they've said they don't really intend to change, why are you continuing to frustrate yourself by trying to use the wrong tool?

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I do not believe I have EVER in insinuated that tags are wrong, that hierarchical organisation is the only solution to all organisational issues, nor have ever insinuated that people who believe differently are ignorant luddites who refuse to adapt.

And for the record, I do use Tags. I just would like the option to mix and match tags and stacks to suit the particular need I have at the time. Tags are not the answer in every case. Stacks are not the answer in every case. Sometimes, it helps to use both.

Edit: I'm not saying the Enote is a piece of poo, or far from perfect. Out of all the software solutions I've tried, its comes close to being perfect. I adapted to not having Onotes "write anywhere" method, and no prefer Enotes. I find the cross-platform existence of clients incredibly useful when sharing notes. There are just a few features I wish it had that would bring it just that one step closer to perfection. Stacked stacks is just one, having a button on the toolbar (desktop, mobile and web to strip the formatting from selected text (or the entire note) is another.

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And yet, the topic of structure (be it sub notebooks or stacked stacks) keeps coming up. That in and of itself says something.

Coming from a marketing background, I agree with your comment. For every written comment, there are dozens of unwritten, but similar supporting views.

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which end up being restrictive when you have thousands of notes.

How can "having more depth in hierarchy" be more restictive than having 1? :D

I understand your point and it works well for people who have so much information that they have to use search functionality all the time. They really need to categorize the data (tagging), that data can be anywhere, because its location just doesn't matter. These people wouldn't be harassed by even a totally flat note structure.

However project managers like me (and around me) are cursed with some data organizing habit. So I keep my projects in folders (named by the project's name), and when I want to work with something I can usually pinpont it, I don't need to search. This makes tags completely useless to me.

Then I tried to think outside the box, as you suggested :D , because the file-system example is wrong if we look at the fact that file-systems don't support tagging functionality at all and that's why we are used to use folders. But I immediately missed features which would ease the pain on tags:

Introducing tags in the note creation process very early: There are a lot of people arguing about the missing stacked notebook feature, and the answer is usually 'use tags'. So these people need to be taught to use tags. But - for example - if I select a tag (or more tags), the right-click menu does not contain a "Create note with tags" entry. I don't know how much of the documents are automatically imported into Evernote instead of creating it in Evernote, but I usually do the second (and not scan, send a document into Evernote, or whatever).

The illusion of usefulness of nested tags: adding the deepest entry of nested tags won't add its parents. Which makes tag nesting useless and confusing. A simple tag grouping would have been better to understand, although useless as well. Even if there were some "auto-adding nested tag's parents" feature, it would be still useless, as when tags are added to a note, they immediately loose their child/parent hierarchy (so why create them in the first place?).

I hope I wasn't nitpicking too hard, I might have done lot of UX and UI projects this year :)

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Like others, I've wished for the ability to have deeper hierarchy of notes. I have to think harder about using tags to achieve this; it just hasn't been a "natural" approach for me.

For those looking for an alternative, check out PersonalBrain - http://www.thebrain.com/products/personalbrain/. Actually, I'm a heavy user of both apps, so maybe alternative isn't the right word. Frankly, I've been struggling with how to either 1) create a workflow leveraging both apps or 2) settle on one over the other. I don't have the inclination to go into a detailed comparison of the two atm, but here are a few top of mind thoughts...

What I like about PersonalBrain is that it allows me to be more organized (with parent / child hierarchical relationships). What's nice, though, is that you can have multiple parents for any though, so it's much more powerful than the traditional folder structure people are used to. You can also have "jump" thoughts to connect one thought to another ("sideways") without making either one a parent or child to the other.

PB also allows you to assign both multiple tags AND thought types to any thought. It's incredibly flexible.

What I've been trying most recently is to use EN as the initial repository, dumping everything into it. And then seeing if how it works to put what I think is the more powerful PB interface on top of it: i.e., copying EN hyperlinks and pasting them into PB. Ideally, though, I would just use one app to reduce the amount of time spent organizing data. It sometimes feels like I'm doing double the work.

While PB lets you publish your brains to the cloud, this means I need to have connectivity in order to access. I appreciate that I can store notebooks locally with EN and access them from anywhere regardless of whether I'm connected.

Anyway, if you haven't checked out PB, I would encourage you to do so. There's a free version. I think it will give you some interesting thoughts (no pun intended) on how you organize your data. Perhaps when I have more time, I'll show some examples of how I would tackle the same activity in either app... and what I see as the pros and cons of each for my own usage.

Any other joint PB and EN users out there? I would definitely like to hear how you're managing the relationship between the two apps.

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Funny, I keep getting the sense that people who want a more defined hierarchy seem to think that their way is the only valid way. If how EN has chosen to do things doesn't work for you AND they've said they don't really intend to change, why are you continuing to frustrate yourself by trying to use the wrong tool?

You need to get to now Set theory deeper :D . If you want exactly 1 level of stacks and I want unlimited level of it, my "valid" way contains your "valid" way. If the software knew unlimited levels of stacks you could still use only 1 and we could both have our "valid" ways without clashing. Those "valid" ways would collide only if we wanted the same thing but with a different predefined property (you want 1 level, I want 2).

And you are generalizing that the whole tool is wrong just because one of its - smaller - functionality is wrong. Evernote has problem, but for this one there are no workarounds. Take "Paste as Text" as an example. A very simple function, yet it is a *****. I don't know what it does wrong, because it is irreproducible. Every time I try it, the text looks good in Evernote, but if I copy/paste it into another software, it becomes garbage. So I paste text first into Notepad++, then copy it from there, then paste it into Evernote. Then it will be good everywhere. But I'm lazy to file a ticket, because this workaround solution is fine for me.

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You need to get to now Set theory deeper :D . If you want exactly 1 level of stacks and I want unlimited level of it, my "valid" way contains your "valid" way. If the software knew unlimited levels of stacks you could still use only 1 and we could both have our "valid" ways without clashing. Those "valid" ways would collide only if we wanted the same thing but with a different predefined property (you want 1 level, I want 2).

All of which might be a valid point if EN had infinite resources. You apparently missed the rest of my post where I stated that I didn't care if they added additional levels of hierarchy unless the time spent on that detracted from other things. They're a small company. I'd hate to see them waste time becoming like other programs when the direction they're going in suits me so well.

We will have to agree to disagree.

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The illusion of usefulness of nested tags: adding the deepest entry of nested tags won't add its parents. Which makes tag nesting useless and confusing. A simple tag grouping would have been better to understand, although useless as well. Even if there were some "auto-adding nested tag's parents" feature, it would be still useless, as when tags are added to a note, they immediately loose their child/parent hierarchy (so why create them in the first place?).

Nested tags in Evernote are mainly for organizational purposes, and not for exposing semantic hierarchies. It's been that way since Evernote added the nesting capabilities, and was acknowledged by them at the time. And they understand the difference. That tag nesting exists doesn't make them non-useful; they are exactly as useful as before nesting came around, but now you can organize them, which makes them more manageable, so long as you don't fall into the trap of assuming that they behave hierarchically with respect to searching. Auto adding tag parents is problematic; in my opinion; it's coming at the problem from the wrong end. I think that enhancing search to allow for hierarchical functionality would be the way to go: i.e., the ability to search for notes labelled by a tag and any of its subtags would give users the ability to treat their tag trees as semantic hierarchies, which seems to be what some of them want.

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I think that enhancing search to allow for hierarchical functionality would be the way to go: i.e., the ability to search for notes labelled by a tag and any of its subtags would give users the ability to treat their tag trees as semantic hierarchies, which seems to be what some of them want.

Agreed. I ended up using prefixed tags to get around this problem.

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And yet, the topic of structure (be it sub notebooks or stacked stacks) keeps coming up. That in and of itself says something.

Coming from a marketing background, I agree with your comment. For every written comment, there are dozens of unwritten, but similar supporting views.

+1

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Agreed. I ended up using prefixed tags to get around this problem.

This is the proper sign of an underlying architectural problem. These "tags" are tied together on the wrong level, which results in tags like "project_documents" and "project_info" and you'll have "project" duplicated. Although the Search functionality is smart enough to find text fragments, that way searching for "projec" will work.

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Agreed. I ended up using prefixed tags to get around this problem.

This is the proper sign of an underlying architectural problem.

Not necessarily.

The prefixed tags are a helpful mnemonic device to remember the tag name.

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I think that enhancing search to allow for hierarchical functionality would be the way to go: i.e., the ability to search for notes labelled by a tag and any of its subtags would give users the ability to treat their tag trees as semantic hierarchies, which seems to be what some of them want.

If I understand properly, this would result in multiple levels of notebooks represented by tag hierarchy.

Which leads back to my original question (which popped in my mind, reading a lot about the tagging system): If the tagging system is to be enhanced (and not the notebook hierarchy), why there is a one level depth at all?

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I think that enhancing search to allow for hierarchical functionality would be the way to go: i.e., the ability to search for notes labelled by a tag and any of its subtags would give users the ability to treat their tag trees as semantic hierarchies, which seems to be what some of them want.

If I understand properly, this would result in multiple levels of notebooks represented by tag hierarchy.

I don't think that you have. The suggestion is to allow (but not force) search to be able to honor the tag hierarchy, without affecting the current system of stacks, notebooks or tags. In other words, this mode of search would allow you to search for tag "A", and match not only explicit matches of tag "A" (which is what it does now), but also notes tagged with subtags of "A".

Note that this is something I'm suggesting could be useful, but I've never see any posting by Evernote folks that would lead me to think that they're considering it.

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This discussion forced me to look harder at how I'm using Evernote and how I'm using PersonalBrain. I use both programs on a daily basis and have struggled with getting ONE of them to do everything I want. I think I've decided that PB is better for general projects and data that needs a bit more organization, and EN is better for the stream of consciousness stuff that I just want to quickly capture. For those unfamiliar with PB, I made some screen captures tonight that highlight some of the differentiating features that I wish could be done in EN.

At first, I tried to share the note from EN but the page looked blank to me.... so I sent it to my Posterous instead.

http://supherb.posterous.com/some-featu ... lbrain-vis

http://www.evernote.com/shard/s1/sh/689 ... 388dec00e6

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This discussion forced me to look harder at how I'm using Evernote and how I'm using PersonalBrain. I use both programs on a daily basis and have struggled with getting ONE of them to do everything I want. I think I've decided that PB is better for general projects and data that needs a bit more organization, and EN is better for the stream of consciousness stuff that I just want to quickly capture. For those unfamiliar with PB, I made some screen captures tonight that highlight some of the differentiating features that I wish could be done in EN.

At first, I tried to share the note from EN but the page looked blank to me.... so I sent it to my Posterous instead.

http://supherb.posterous.com/some-featu ... lbrain-vis

http://www.evernote.com/shard/s1/sh/689 ... 388dec00e6

You know, a lot of people seem to want/be searching for a single app that does it all. I don't think such an animal exists. I've been writing/using software for over 35 years & IMO, it boils down to some apps do some things amazingly well but no app is going to do it all (or do it all well.) Fact of life. I don't know why some people seem to think they need to decide between OneNote & EN. I use both. OneNote I use occasionally. EN I use pretty much every hour of every day. Do I use either one for budgeting/balancing our books? No. Use the app that's best suited to the task.

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I tried to share the note from EN but the page looked blank to me

Current bug in web client/service.

I don't think such an animal exists.

Agreed. Evernote does a great job of replacing Delicious and Browser bookmarks. My use of browser tabs is way down now, clip and close. But, I still use other apps e.g. Google Docs/Spreadsheets, Remember the Milk, etc. for what they do best. Evernote is a good repository but it is not, and should not be, a swiss army knife.

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The drawback on tag structuring in flat collections is that you only see the immanent structure by searching and not by showing.

If you want to share structured information, like projects/circumstances where the structure of presentation is part of the information itself

a) it forces you to put all information/notes into a single notebook, because there are no overall tags once shared

B) the structure within has to be outlined by a "keynote" or people won't know the structure inferred otherwise by obvious organisation

This means that Evernote generally is more applicable for sharing collections than constructions.

P.S. The concept of "inheriting" context by nesting entities of understanding is quite a real world model and natural, not so much just "old" thinking habit.

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I usually put structure into my note titles. e.g "Hardware - Scanner - ...", "Evernote - Web -..", "Client - Project -.." etc.

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I usually put structure into my note titles. e.g "Hardware - Scanner - ...", "Evernote - Web -..", "Client - Project -.." etc.

Thanks for the proposal. You're right, flattening out the directory path into the title is a feasible workaround and probably my means of choice.

Nevertheless it's a bit of a drag with growing complexity and only of moderate elegancy ;-). Just imagine a little adjustment in "directory structure" leading to editing all of the titles.

Harald

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I usually put structure into my note titles. e.g "Hardware - Scanner - ...", "Evernote - Web -..", "Client - Project -.." etc.

Thanks for the proposal. You're right, flattening out the directory path into the title is a feasible workaround and probably my means of choice.

Nevertheless it's a bit of a drag with growing complexity and only of moderate elegancy ;-). Just imagine a little adjustment in "directory structure" leading to editing all of the titles.

Harald

Yep. There are times I would kill for a regexp find & replace for a collection of note titles.

On the other hand, the adjustment in structure may not be that useful. What you are talking about is essentially a view problem. Tags and/or saved searches may be an adequate alternative.

If I need an elegant solution to a specific data management problem then in all probability Evernote may not be a perfect solution. The issue becomes one of is it good enough. In many cases the answer is yes. In some cases the answer is that some other tool is needed for the job. e.g. I have very large media libraries. I would not even think of using Evernote to manage those libraries, however, I do use Evernote to keep track of potential acquisitions for those libraries.

The art of the possible.

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The issue becomes one of is it good enough.

It is, I made my mind up about that. I'm just trying to push the limits for greater acceptance by my colleagues where practicability within known concepts is an issue.

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Some people expose a hierarchy in their tag naming schemes. See this earlier post from this thread: http://forum.evernote.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=20719#p116181, for example. Again, not necessarily convenient, but possible.

Quite OK, one could tag each "subdirectory" accordingly so notes of that level will show up when clicking on the tag.

Drawback again: In a client visualizing the shared tag tree the hierarchy of the original is lost and not displayed. Also the introduction of tags by the co-users is not supported.

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Drawback again: In a client visualizing the shared tag tree the hierarchy of the original is lost and not displayed.

Actually, the hierarchy is embodied in the name of the tag, so long as you mirror the hierarchical structure or the original tag tree in the name. Which is sorta the point: you see the tag, you see the implied hierarchy.

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Please add the ability to have multiple folder levels, like notebooks within notebooks. This would make it much easier to organize my (and I'm sure many others) ideas. Thanks.

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Hi 99lives, welcome to the forum :)

Currently, there is only the possibility to have one level of notebooks within stacks

i.e.

Notebook Stack 1

- Notebook 1

- Notebook 2

Notebook Stack 2

- Notebook 3

- Notebook 4

Whether this will change or not in the future, I don't know. I think that the general consensus is that it wont.

One option would be to try a similar thing with tags, and there are various threads about this on the forum.

One example:

http://discussion.ev...nested-folders/

Scott

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and there are various threads about this on the forum.

Indeed. In addition to the thread Scott posted, please use the search function to find other threads as this has already been discussed at great length. As Scott pointed out, there is no indication sub-notebooks will be added any time soon, if at all.

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play around with Note Links also....helps with "subnotes" within Notes....fact you can multiselect entire category of your notes and insert really anywhere.

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Just recently started using Evernote again after having installed it several years ago and not really getting into it. But things have changed in the way I manage my files and I find I am loving Evernote now after having used Catch for a few months after getting an Android.

Anyway, I am unclear about one thing regarding notebooks. I know there is a limit of 250 synced notebooks including stacks. That's where I'm not sure if a stack with 10 notebooks inside it counts as 1, 10, or 11 notebooks of your total Can anyone clear this up.

BTW, this limit is what finally swayed me to switch over from Catch. I actually did like that app, even though it didn't have a desktop application - only phone and web. But the free account only allows 3 streams (their equivalent of notebooks). Now I'm finding Evernote vastly superior in almost every way as i use it more and more.

Thanks for any help,

Rick

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Anyway, I am unclear about one thing regarding notebooks. I know there is a limit of 250 synced notebooks including stacks. That's where I'm not sure if a stack with 10 notebooks inside it counts as 1, 10, or 11 notebooks of your total Can anyone clear this up.

A stack of 10 notebooks = 11 notebooks

A word of caution - many of the Evernote power users have found fewer notebooks are more useful than many notebooks.

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OK. Thanks!

I'll keep your advice in mind as I continue to decide how I really want my Evernote set up in the long term. I currently have 28 notebooks but am still trying to decide if that number should be more, less, or is about right for the number of subjects. It's kind of a balancing act between the effective use of stacks, notebooks, and tags.

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I have ~9,000 notes in one notebook, and I recommend trying out that setup. Notebooks are very weak for searching, since you can't search more than one notebook, and you can't remove individual notebooks from your search. (That is, of your 28 notebooks you can only search in one of them or in all of them, not in 2 through 27, unless you create stacks just for the purpose of searching.) Tags let you search any number of combinations that you want. And you never have to think, "Does this note belong in Notebook A or Notebook B?" With tags, you just tag it with both.

If you're interested in trying to switch to a tag-heavy, notebook-light structure, we're happy to answer any questions you have about this. You might also want to search the forums for more about this. Here's one conversation to start with:

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That being said, notebooks are still the smallest granularity for offline notes (sets of notes that stay always resident on a mobile device, e.g. Android) and for local notes (sets of notes that reside only one a local machine, and not synced to the Evernote cloud), and are also the containers used for sharing sets of notes all at once. They're also useful as the targets of import operations or other external source that add untagged items to Evernote, like Google Reader via IFTTT or auto-forwarded emails, giving you an Inbox of sorts that you can paw through and categorize at your leisure. Those may be considerations for how you structure your Evernote note database.

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Notebooks are very weak for searching, since you can't search more than one notebook

For people with more than one notebook:

When "All Notes" are selected in the Left Panel, all notebooks are searched.

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They're still weak with respect to searching: you can only use a single Notebook, a single Stack, or All Notebooks as your search scope. A stack lets you get multiple notebooks into a search, but it's not particularly flexible, but not bad if you don't have a lot of notebooks and you don't really care all that much about how they're structured -- just make an ad hoc stack and search away (but you can't really then persist that search, since it's ad hoc).

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Notebooks are very weak for searching, since you can't search more than one notebook

For people with more than one notebook:

When "All Notes" are selected in the Left Panel, all notebooks are searched.

Yes, that's what I hoped to make clear in the next sentence:

Notebooks are very weak for searching, since you can't search more than one notebook, and you can't remove individual notebooks from your search. (That is, of your 28 notebooks you can only search in one of them or in all of them, not in 2 through 27, unless you create stacks just for the purpose of searching.)

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They're also useful as the targets of import operations or other external source that add untagged items to Evernote, like Google Reader via IFTTT or auto-forwarded emails, giving you an Inbox of sorts that you can paw through and categorize at your leisure. Those may be considerations for how you structure your Evernote note database.

What do you mean? I use ifttt, and it adds tags automatically, which is how I organize my different feeds.

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They're also useful as the targets of import operations or other external source that add untagged items to Evernote, like Google Reader via IFTTT or auto-forwarded emails, giving you an Inbox of sorts that you can paw through and categorize at your leisure. Those may be considerations for how you structure your Evernote note database.

What do you mean? I use ifttt, and it adds tags automatically, which is how I organize my different feeds.

You're right -- I guess what I wrote was a little misleading; since I read articles in Google Reader that I would wish to tag differently, based on content, I don't add any tags at all, I just send them to my Inbox notebook, for later winnowing. So yeah, you can add tags; I just don't find it very useful for my purposes.

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Wow! Lots of food for thought. These are all valid considerations for me to mull over.

I had perhaps 100 notes in Catch so far with only two streams and had not yet had a problem finding anything but it just seemed too limiting knowing that I could only create one more stream for free. But one concern I have with a too tag heavy approach is not wanting to have to spend 5 minutes on every note looking through a huge list of tags trying to decide how many are truly applicable and important to a single notebook approach. Perhaps I am overthinking it tough or getting the wrong idea about this approach?

I'm not praising Catch or criticizing Evernote but simply trying to complete my transition - but there was one feature in Catch I really liked that I have not yet figured out how to do in Evernote - or if I even can. That was an easy way to narrow results with multiple tags. For an exaggerated but realistic example, let's say I had 500 notes in a "Hiking" notebook. 250 have a "trails" tag and 25 of those have a "New Hampshire" tag. Other trail notes may have tags of "Virginia", "Tennessee", etc. for trails in those states. 20 of the 25 trail notes tagged "New Hampshire" are tagged "peaks" and 10 of those 25 are tagged "waterfalls" Many of the VA and TN trails notes have varying mixtures of these two tags as well. Now, let's say there are several other notes in this notebook also tagged "New Hampshire" but not "trails". In Catch, while on either All Notes or the Hiking stream, if I pulled up the tag interface and selected trails, it would show all 250 notes tagged "trails" but no other notes. The interface would also show that these notes included 25 New Hampshire tags, X number of Virginia and Tennessee tags, as well as X number of waterfall and peaks tags. The notes with New Hampshire tags but NOT with trails tags have already been excluded. If I then select New Hampshire in the list of tags it will then display only the 25 notes tagged with both "trails" and "New Hampshire". It will also show that there are now 20 notes tagged "peaks" and 10 tagged "waterfalls". Continuing, I select "waterfalls" and am left with only the 10 notes tagged "trails", "New Hampshire" and "waterfalls". I will no longer see notes tagged "waterfall" AND "Virginia" for example. Nor will I see other "New Hampshire" tags that got culled when I originally selected trails.

Is there anything similar and equally easy in Evernote? If not, that would seem to justify a larger number of notebooks to my way of thinking.

Rick

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There are many different ways to attack this.

One solution which I strongly support is to have a well-structured format for the title of your notes.

Saved Searches for frequent searches is also helpful.

In Evernote Windows, I would have the "Show Search Exploration" turned on. (Ctrl + F10)

This will let me see the count of my different searches.

Because I have a lot of tags, I rely on the search window for 100% of my searches.

I use copy and paste a lot, with Notepad. I also always clear my search (Win + Shift + F) before running another search.

Other people might use the Left Panel and selectively "Ctrl-Click" the tags.

My tag format would be Parent / Child.

The notes would be put into the Hiking notebook. The trail notes would contain the word Trail in the title.

State

NH

VA

TN

Sights

Peaks

Waterfalls

Then I would use the search window for:

intitle:Trail tag:NH tag:waterfall

Remember, I said I use the notepad frequently.

If I decided to look for peaks instead, I'd change it to:

intitle:Trail tag:NH tag:waterfall

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Excellent! That gives me the exact same fuctionality I was looking for, at least on the desktop and web apps. I had been trying to click on the tags in the left sidebar but that only allowed me to search that one tag and not narrow to notes with that tag and also another by clicking another tag. I had tried typing more tags in the search bar as well but had not yet learned that I needed to add the word Tag: in front of it. Works perfectly now, though having to actually type in the tags isn't quite as quick and simple as clicking on them in succession to narrow results down. Nevertheless, it will work just fine for me.

Is there an easy way to do this on the Android app as well. It would be nice if you didn't have to type existing tag names in the seach bar there.

Rick

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One more question. Since this thread rather quickly veered off the original subject matter, is there any way for me or perhaps a moderator to add another tag to it? Perhaps "folders vs tags"? Other people might also find this thread helpful for that discussion.

Rick

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though having to actually type in the tags isn't quite as quick and simple as clicking on them in succession to narrow results down. Nevertheless, it will work just fine for me.

As jbenson wrote, you can Ctrl_click on tags to add them to your search (or remove them, too).

Is there an easy way to do this on the Android app as well. It would be nice if you didn't have to type existing tag names in the seach bar there.

Not so far as I know.

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Thanks! I am at work messing around with the web-interface now but was going to try the Ctrl_click way on the desktop app once I got home this evening.

Rick

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The way I use Evernote, as an example, is to have notebooks like a student in school, one for each major subject. Tags can go cross-notebooks, of course, so a note in the Math notebook could have "Test material" the same way a note in the English notebook could. I'm not a student but this way of looking at it helps me conceptualize it. I also have tags for year and month for various bills, lab reports, etc. If I get an electric bill I'll tag it "2012" and "04 - April" and "Bill" so I can search them all together if I need to see where my money went - a common occurrence lately :)

The downside to this approach is if I make my notebooks too detailed. "Medical" is fine, if I make one for "Doctor Visit", "Lab Report", "Bill", etc then I'll make myself crazier. Even if they are grouped into the same stack it's easier to not have to decide if this bill for a lab test goes under lab or bill!

The bottom line is, of course, that Evernote is flexible enough for each of us to do what works for us. Do what works for you and enjoy it instead of trying to fit into someone else's model.

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Hi :)

I'm new in Evernote. I'm basically a MyNotesKeeper user, and I've a request about the tree on the left panel !

In MyNotesKeeper, we can have main categories displayed by tabs (on the top), and we can create as many notes and sub-notes as we want in these categories ! I absolutely need the possibility to create as many sub-trees as I want !! For me, it's a must-have, a basic function.

Why?

Because of this :

http://www.evernote....41d6785f24375d9

My use of a notes manager is more complex than what you propose : I sort my thoughts in many subtrees, as you see.

I don't understand why you didn't work about this aspect, wich is, in my opinion, a priority : how represent what is inside our brains, how let people express the complexity of their thoughts ?

It can't be by only 1 sub-level (stacks > notebooks) !!

So, it would be a godlike improvement if you could implement this tiny function, wich is, by the way, known since... the begining of computing ! :D

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There is much forum discussion on the topic of sub-notebooks, sub-folders, sub-notes, etc. etc. Evernote the company and the community are very aware of what these concepts are, and what they mean. The short answer is that chances are, this will not be added to Evernote any time soon, if ever. Hierarchies are not the only way to organize knowledge. Evernote chose tags (the equivalent of MS Outlook categories, or GMail labels), and these are a very flexible way to organize your notes. If you absolutely need subnotebooks, then Evernote may not be the product for you. If you want help on how to use tags to help you organize your notes, then the forum is the right place to be.

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In MyNotesKeeper, we can have main categories displayed by tabs (on the top), and we can create as many notes and sub-notes as we want in these categories ! I absolutely need the possibility to create as many sub-trees as I want !! For me, it's a must-have, a basic function.

I had not heard of MyNotesKeeper before, but after a quick review of their website it looks like an impressive program.

I do like the hierarchical, collapsible folder list in the left panel.

So what brings you to Evernote?

Are you switching to Evernote from MyNotesKeeper?

If so, what Evernote features do you find compelling?

Unfortunately, Evernote has resisted all suggestions that they provide a hierarchical folder/subfolder or Notebook/SubNotebook organization.

It doesn't look like it is in the cards for the foreseeable future.

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Thanks guys for your answers !

@jefito : unfortunatly tags are not the solution, because I feel the need to deploy trees, sub-trees etc. Let's imagine I want to create a 2nd sub-level by cheating and using tags, all these tags will be bulk (is this the right expression in english?) and not connected to any stack/notebook. I could have a thousand tags bulk, lol ! Impossible... Anyway, thank you for this idea.

@JMichael : Yeah, MyNotesKeeper is impressive :

- for the tabs

- for the hierarchical

- the possibility to export in .CHM (Windows Help File), I love this !

One other similar software is TreeDBNotes, but no export in .CHM !

What brings me to Evernote is :

- I was searching something more "modern". I'm a perfectionnist in ergonomy, I like having smooth designs, even if I lost features by using an other software I'll always prefer having a better design (ex : I prefer "Musique" to "Mediamonkey").

- Evernote propose an online account (cloud).

Moreover I love :

- The web clipping feature.

- The attachment possibilities

- The Share function

- The interface...

- Etc, Evernote is well done.

Excepted the problem of the left tree, and the fact that a portable version of Evernote is no longer released, Evernote is perfect for me.

But the fact that the devteam don't want to listen to users and implement the sub-tree feature is a strong sign that I won't adopt this software.

I absolutely HATE when developpers are blinds, depth and bounded. "I don't see the utility, so I won't implement it" = bye bye !

The entire computing is slowed and filled by this kind of mentality.

What is the use of Evernote for me? Nothing.

Why? Just because of a miserable consideration of sub-level.

Bravo !

A guy talking with a car-dealer :

- Your cars don't have trunks?

- No. No need to.

- Yeah yeah... =>Bye.

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Thanks guys for your answers !

@jefito : unfortunatly tags are not the solution, because I feel the need to deploy trees, sub-trees etc. Let's imagine I want to create a 2nd sub-level by cheating and using tags, all these tags will be bulk (is this the right expression in english?) and not connected to any stack/notebook. I could have a thousand tags bulk, lol ! Impossible... Anyway, thank you for this idea.

As I say, sub-whatevers are not the solution in Evernote, since they don't exist.. You actually may be able to organize your data using tags, but if you're uncomfortable/unfamiliar with the idea, then Evernote is probably not for you.

I absolutely HATE when developpers are blinds, depth and bounded. "I don't see the utility, so I won't implement it" = bye bye !

The entire computing is slowed and filled by this kind of mentality.

What is the use of Evernote for me? Nothing.

Why? Just because of a miserable consideration of sub-level.

Evernote makes a fine hammer. If you are looking for a screwdriver, then blaming Evernote for not being a screwdriver is just silly.

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Dude, I saw in your last post that you were not very opened mind. This time, you proved it to me.

Uh, "dude", I am just giving you information. It's nothing to do with how open my mind is, or not.

You actually may be able to organize your data using tags, but if you're blabla...

No, NOT AT ALL. Pure pretention. You don't know how complex is my need to write everyday on many subject and organize my thoughts, even by watching a screenshot of the soft I actuallay use.

Did you actually try? Did you ask anyone here to help you? Or did you just assume that you cannot organize your information using tags and notebooks, only based on your experience, as opposed to the experience and advice of some knowledgeable folks here? Is that the open-mindedness that you seek?

Even with a picture you don't see how complex is the organization of thoughts.

Please. It's a rather ordinary tree structure. The question of whether Evernote can help you is not in the picture of your tree, it's actually how you want to use your data (create and access).

This indicates me 2 things :

- you have a small conception of thinking/writing/organizing thoughts, wich is impressive related to Evernote wich is a software that claims to help for this kind of activities, a software that you follow and defend.

- You're blind.

No, but I am half-deaf. :)

I won't waste more time with you, I know so much how people like you are just fanatics and not real users/thinkers.

Yeah yeah, I don't have to blame a software that wants to help me to note many things, yeah yeah... blablabla.

Evernote works the way that it works. *shrug* If you want to use it as it is, then that's cool, we're here to help. If you have suggestions as to how to make it better, then that's cool too, though they might never be implemented. If you are looking for different functionality than Evernote provides today, then that's no problem; go ahead and use something else -- it'll be less frustrating to you.

Seriously, for god sake -_-. Excuse me mate, you just pissed me off. My bad.

On that we agree.

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It's not an ordinary tree structure.

Please explain what is the problem with implementing more sub-levels.

Thanks a lot.

Cheers.

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It's not an ordinary tree structure.

Please explain what is the problem with implementing more sub-levels.

Thanks a lot.

Cheers.

hi. welcome to the forums!

thanks for posting on this topic. personally, i use no hierarchies (no notebooks or tags), so it isn't a concern for me, but i know it is of great interest to many users. i don't know if evernote plans to add more hierarchical possibilities to notebooks.

in the current system, there are some workarounds (i actually prefer some of these to traditional folder hierarchies).

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It's not an ordinary tree structure.

Please explain what is the problem with implementing more sub-levels.

Thanks a lot.

Cheers.

You've been very rude to a moderator who was trying to help. You accuse him of being close minded while you are exhibiting that same flaw you accuse him of. As has been pointed out to you, there is already much discussion on the topic, if you simply use the search function of the board. It's doubtful with this attitude you will receive much more help.

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The attitude of many devs and moderators, wich is fanatism and close-minded, is much more negative than fighting it.

Here again, what is being close-minded :

[EDIT:] Content deleted by moderator. Please watch the language. http://discussion.ev...ore&module=help

The bolded sentence is very important.

Evernote proposes... notes, notebooks. So, the logic of development is : I open my eyes, I watch around how we usually make a Notes Manager, and I use the best ideas. What people need? They need to save their ideas, not only like traditionnal reminders, we have Stickies or PNotes for this. Ideas are complex. Some note managers have trees with unlimited levels, it's cool to store complex structures of notes. Not only mathematicians or physicians need it, but anybody who wants to store information and sort it in many categories, and store categories in other categories to be more logic.

Since the begining of ancient holly times, arborescences in computing are unlimited :

- Windows Explorer (folders, sub-folders, etc)

- Help Files (.chm)

- Even bulleted lists in text editors

Wtf did happen? What did happen is limitation of intelligence in certain people who usually work in softwares development. It's very current.

Until I have a real argument to explain the limitation of Evernote's tree feature, my explaination is the devs only think in 2 levels and want to create a tool FOR THEM.

Thanks for the links ! I'll see if I'm wrong.

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I've been using Evernote for a little while now - around 2 years seriously, and initially I was very uncomfortable because there were no folders and sub-folders in Evernote. It seemed impossible to adequately sort my information into categories and cases that could support a specific thesis. However as I got used to the tagging system I began to see many advantages in using tags, not folders - and as I develop my usage of Evernote I'm beginning to think that I have overtagged my notes anyway. The search syntax is so powerful (again, once you get used to it..) that filing and finding information doesn't really require any organisation on my part. I'm moving towards tagging notes only to show that they form part of an ongoing grouping that relates to a client, or an action.

As example I'll look at dozens of notes related to banking regulation; I'll find them through searches for obvious keywords, and probably discard 70% of what I find as being repetitions, background or just irrelevant static. The ones I'm going to quote from though, in an article, letter or report will be tagged with the name of that action so that if (when) I get any ensuing grief, I can check back with the source material easily and without repeating the search and discard part of the exercise.

Some of the really good notes now have several tags indicating that they've been in different forms of output at different times.

I don't say this style of working couldn't work in a hierarchical filing model, but it is possible to do quite complex things 'only' with tags.

Some visitors to the forum have insisted that post-it notes are essential if they are to use Evernote; others that a Mind Mapping layout is required. I don't suggest that Evernote disregard all such requests - the owners of the software have to make their own decision what development is physically and economically feasible within their own business plan. They'll likely be driven by sales take-up - when numbers of new customers start to dry up, they'll need to see what might restore their attraction; but currently with 20Million (ish) largely satisfied users, Evernote can afford to take the long view.

They have a reasonably smooth, well-liked product and lots of detail work to iron out the rough edges between different clients, not to mention the new ones that come online in the next few years. The existing customer base will get unhappy if the product slows down, or adds unwieldy bloat to the menus, so EN have to keep massaging their infrastructure to keep pace with demand.

For the forseeable future, Evernote will look pretty much like it does now - that's the "if it ain't broke" principle we all know and love - so if you really, REALLY require something else before you'll accept the product, it's not an unhelpful attitude to say "try elsewhere", it's just realistic.

There are apps out there that add in the post-it feature; there are MindMapping and dozens of other specialist tools (I use several myself) to add functionality to Evernote. It's a mistake to think that Evernote should be the singe piece of software that anyone requires - extra features will always be available; it's what your laptop / smartphone / pad is there for!

And of course if the next Better Mousetrap function is sadly lacking from Evernote, the Trunk and the Apps Markets, you always have the Evernote API from which you can develop your own...

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It's not an ordinary tree structure.

I'm not sure what it un-ordinary about it; it's a tree, correct? Similar to the directory (folder) structure in any desktop user's file system, right? Unless there's some cross-linking, or other search operations available in MyNotesKeeper, that's pretty basic (though admittedly you seem to have a fairly elaborate tree).

Please explain what is the problem with implementing more sub-levels.

Given that that's Evernote's choice not to implement nested notebooks, it would probably be better to try to focus on how to organize your data in Evernote.

Example: if you were to create a tag named the same as each folder/subfolder in your system, and apply them in that way, that might be a way to go, but you will lose the hierarchical organization (though if you have unique folder names, you can approximate it by building a tag tree that mirrors your folder structure). But maybe the hierarchy stuff isn't really that important, and you can do without it (that's my approach).

Another way might be to build a system of what, for better or worse, we can call "hierarchical tags", that is, tags that encode the hierarchy in their names. Lot of work to do that, but it has its benefits.

Or maybe you can decide that hierarchies and tags aren't needed at all, and just do content searches to find your stuff (I call this "going commando").

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