Jump to content
  • 318
cswsteve

Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks

Idea

Recommended Posts

  • 0
3 hours ago, AndreasM said:

create a note Note1 tagged with TagA only. Does it mean that by clicking on parent TagAB I will see Note1?

Sorry for the confusion.  Your understanding of tag hierarchies is correct.  If TagAB has NOT been assigned to Note1, then clicking on TagAB will NOT show Note1 in the filtered note list.

My point with pseudo NBs (tags) is that you can create a tag hierarchy in the way you would like to view your Notes.  But if you want any parent tag to include notes of its child tags, the parent tag most also be assigned to the same notes.  Think of the top-level pseudo NB like a book cover. When you open a book you don't see all of the pages.  You have to go to each chapter/page to see it.  The pseudo NB tag hierarchy lets you describe the chapters in the book in a visual way.

So, as I have said before, it is NOT a perfect system, but I believe it is the best we can do to simulate an unlimited number of notebooks and sub-notebooks.  If it is important to you for the parent pseudo NB to "contain" all of the notes of its child tags, then you will need to do a search like this:
any: tag:ChildA tag:ChildB tag:ChildC   etc

This will select all note with any of the child tags.  Then assign the parent tag to those notes.

This is less than ideal for sure, but it is workable.  If you need to do this a lot, then create a Saved Search.

My workflow goes something like this:

  1. All new notes go to ".INBOX" an actual notebook
  2. If tags were not assigned via web clipping (usually they are), then I usually assign two or more tags:
    1. A top-level pseudo NB, like ".NB.IT"
    2. A primary category tag, like "IT.SW" or "EN.Mac"
    3. Additional sub-category tags if I feel they are important, and likely to be used
  3. Move the Note to "Active", my primary actual notebook

Most of my new notes now come from web clippings.  I have to say that I am very impressed with the EN Web Clipper.  After having used it for a while, it accurately auto-selects the proper notebook and top-level pseudo NB (tag).

I hope this helps.  Please feel free to ask more questions and challenge my approach.  I expect to learn from this, and will adapt my approach over time as I learn more.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

JMichaelTX,

thank you for replying to my post. I think using any: tag:ChildA tag:ChildB tag:ChildC   etc. is the solution here. Likewise, most of my notes come from the Web, and I'm very happy with the EN Clipper in Chrome.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

@all discussing here about how to replace lack of Evernote's support through using tags: your effort and sharing is great for all. But @evernote don't forget that all those techniques are nothing but workarounds for an incredible dab design of the notebooks feature by thinking the can have only two levels.

"Tags" are TAGS, and "notebooks" are a synonym of what it's currently called directories in computing, applied to a system where items are called "notes".

Trying to use tags as directories is a pain in the ass:

  1. Because you know that you are using something the way it wasn't intended to be used, and you know that the efforts on the development team of the product won't match you current work style. Using a software the against its design sucks.
  2. Because you know that when this finally gets addressed you won't be able to replace tags with notebooks in the end. Using a software the against its design sucks, again.
  3. Because it clobbers your tag list with pseudo notebooks. Using a software the against its design sucks - surprise!
  4. Because managing groups of notes by its tag has some usability issues vs managing a ***** notebook. Using a software the against its design sucks and it's obvious.
  5. You can't share a tag because... it's not a notebook containing notes. And that's why using a software the against its design sucks.

That's only why I can achieve to imagine using only 5 minutes of my time and without joining the adventure of misusing tags.

I am very surprised about @evernote not addressing this when the software is so cool, stable and mature nowadays, but also very surprised about some people here blaming others about "this is not an evernote's problem, but a problem of you because you don't know how to use the software".

Greetings.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
53 minutes ago, Ãxel said:

Trying to use tags as directories is a pain in the ass:

Actually it is not.  Have you  tried it?

I get it that that is not your preferred solution, but to be practical it is highly unlikely that Evernote will change its basic notebook design.  Users have been complaining/requesting improved notebook features for many, many years now, and Evernote has made only one, small change in all that time:  Added "Stacks".

So, you have a choice:  Make the best of the tool you have, or change tools.

If you don't let the term "notebook" mislead you, or limit you, then almost all of the functionality you want from a notebook can be obtained using tags.

Let's take a very broad category of information that I will call "Personal".  If I create a bunch of notes that I want to be associated with "Personal" I can use either a notebook named "Personal", or a tag named "Personal"

There is no material difference between a notebook of "Personal" and a tag of "Personal" in how I reference those notes:

  • In the left Sidebar, I can click on the label for either to filter the notes
  • In the Search box, I can filter the list using qualifiers for either ("notebook:" vs "tag:")
  • In the Notebook filter (dropdown list at top of note list), I can select the "Personal" notebook, which is analogous to selecting the "Personal" tag in the Tag Filter.
  • For each note, I would need to choose either the "Personal" notebook, or the "Personal" tag

So, from an user's organization perspective, use of a notebook and tag are the same.

The difference comes in when the user wants to either:

  1. Have more than 250 broad categories (like Project 100 - Project 500)
  2. Use logical, hierarchical subdivisions of the category (often called "sub-notebooks")

So, notebooks do NOT offer any organization advantage over tags.
Whereas tags offer many organization advantages over notebooks

  1. Virtually unlimited number of tags
  2. Can have a many sub-tags (sub-categories) in the tag hierarchy as you like
  3. Can assign multiple tags to the same note
    (so, for example, a computer asset Note can be referenced by both "Business" and "Personal")

This is not just theory.  I have demonstrated the use of tags as pseudo Notebooks for several months now, and I can say it works extremely well.  I have NOT found any usage or organization issues.  I have NOT found any missing features using tags vs using notebooks.  In fact my experience has been extremely positive since using tags has eliminated a number of obstacles I had with notebooks.

There are definitely some use cases that require notebooks, like sharing and mobile off-line storage.  One of the many benefits of using pseudo Notebooks is that I can create an actual EN notebook for sharing that still has my pseudo Notebook tag.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On 10/14/2015 at 3:43 AM, Stuhrer said:

When I started working with Evernote I used it with an organization I was used to before. The concept of tags was new to me and it took some time to digest. But after some time I started to appreciate it. It actually allows you to organize the information in a similar way as your brain works. Your brain does not put information into a hierarchical tree-like structure (notebooks and sub-notebooks). It keeps it in context and creates relations between information in a very complex way. With tags you can do the same. You can link a note to different contexts using tags. Today I am using just two stacks, one for work related notes one for private and less than 10 notebooks per stack but about 200 tags. And actually I could live with one notebook only and exchange e.g. the stacks 'work' and 'private' by two additional tags.

I'm trying to bend my mind around this Evernote concept of hierarchy by tag, in order to see if I can convert hundreds of CarbonFin outlines to Evernote. Maybe you can help me make the transition. I have created a drawing, representing the (Stack, Notebook, Tags) approach that you have suggested but this forum wouldn't allow me to upload it.

When browsing an outline system for notes about Car Loan for example, one would normally  start from a larger category like "Private" note, then drill down to “Car” subnote> “Loan” sub-subnote etc.

How then do you browse in Evernote?
In Evernote, do you star by filtering the whole stack for the “Loan” tag, then test each “Loan” tag to see if they are related to the “Home” notebook, the Finance notebook, or the car notebook?

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
5 hours ago, Christozoid said:

In Evernote, do you star by filtering the whole stack for the “Loan” tag, then test each “Loan” tag to see if they are related to the “Home” notebook, the Finance notebook, or the car notebook?

For this purpose; a tag is just a tag, nothing else. There is no real hierarchy.
You can have a combination search   tag:Loan tag:Home  tag:Private .....
however there is no hierarchy *** This may have changed in the recent Windows beta

Regarding your chart.
Evernote does not allow duplicate tag names.
You can call your tags     Private-Car-Loan       Private-House-Loan
or use multiple tags         Private Car  Loan      Private  House  Loan

My preference is to use multiple tags

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
18 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

Actually it is not.  Have you  tried it?

I get it that that is not your preferred solution, but to be practical it is highly unlikely that Evernote will change its basic notebook design.  Users have been complaining/requesting improved notebook features for many, many years now, and Evernote has made only one, small change in all that time:  Added "Stacks".

@JMichaelTX I've seen this kind of scenario several times before (enterprise is sure that all complaining users are wrong and its implementatrion is best for the user, user tries it, user is happy) and in all cases I finally agreed with the enterprise, but this time seems impossible to me to agree:

Notebooks are useful for some things and tags are useful for others; trying to assume that notebooks are limited on its functionality because they are not stackable, and that you must stop using notebooks for its natural feature and use tags for two different features (tagging and stacking) trying to cover the usability lack of the notebooks is terrible and leads to error prone management. Software developers know the users are prone to committing errors and tools must help us avoid that.

Also, lack of ability to manage shared work when you stop using notebooks and begin using tags turns the software much less useful when you migrate from notebooks to tags.

18 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

So, you have a choice:  Make the best of the tool you have, or change tools.

I know. I am just trying to make the user feedback on this post even more complete adding my humble opinion about that, gathering the users feedback with the best quality is valuable for the company.

I think with no doubt (I say this with all my respect) that not addressing this issue is a terrible decission from the EN team, but also know that even with this design issue, EN is still a better product than any on the competition and that is why happy-with-tags an unhappy-with-tags users are we all still using it.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
4 hours ago, Ãxel said:

I've seen this kind of scenario several times before (enterprise is sure that all complaining users are wrong and its implementatrion is best for the user, user tries it, user is happy) and in all cases I finally agreed with the enterprise, but this time seems impossible to me to agree:

I should clarify.  My preference would be for Evernote to support unlimited number of Notebooks and sub-Notebooks, just like folders on my Mac.
But they don't, and they do not show any interest in doing so, maybe never.
So, I'm using the tools provided to me, regardless of the original intent by the developers, to get the most out of Evernote that I can.

4 hours ago, Ãxel said:

Notebooks are useful for some things and tags are useful for others; trying to assume that notebooks are limited on its functionality because they are not stackable, and that you must stop using notebooks for its natural feature and use tags for two different features (tagging and stacking) trying to cover the usability lack of the notebooks is terrible and leads to error prone management.

I have no idea what you mean by "error prone management", but I have actually tried using Evernote with a lot of well organized Notebooks, and now with a lot of well organized Tags.  There is no "error".  The management of my notes, using tags, is working very well.
Perhaps you just don't understand it.  People often condemn or have bias against things they don't understand.

Perhaps you missed the part where I said "This is not just theory. I have demonstrated the use of tags as pseudo Notebooks for several months now, and I can say it works extremely well."

4 hours ago, Ãxel said:

Also, lack of ability to manage shared work when you stop using notebooks and begin using tags turns the software much less useful when you migrate from notebooks to tags

You must have missed this part of my previous post:

22 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

There are definitely some use cases that require notebooks, like sharing and mobile off-line storage.  One of the many benefits of using pseudo Notebooks is that I can create an actual EN notebook for sharing that still has my pseudo Notebook tag.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
6 hours ago, DTLow said:

In Evernote a tag is just a tag, nothing else. There is no real hierarchy.

There is a real hierarchy, it just does not have full inheritance on the notes that have been assigned the tag.

It is hierarchy of tags, but not of notes.  Hierarchy simple means the data has a parent-child relationship.  And that is true of Evernote tags.

So, it turns out that it is more of an organizational tools for tags than for notes, unless the user ensures that all of a tags parents are also assigned to the same note.

Having said all that, I still find using a tag hierarchy to be a useful tool to organize my notes.  
Yes, it would be better if tag hierarchy:

  1. Applied the parent-child relationship to the notes, so that if I only assign certain child tags to a note, then a search/filter using the Parent tag would include all notes that have its child tags
  2. I could use the same tag name in multiple tag hierarchies.

However, one of the big issues is that tag hierarchies are NOT supported on mobile devices.

EDIT:  2016-04-04  18:13 CT

I should add that real tag inheritance *could* be coming soon to EN Mac.  It is already in the New Evernote for Windows, v6.0 Beta 

57 minutes ago, csihilling said:

Tag inheritance is included in the new Windows beta.  So if you create a tag hierarchy with Animal as the parent and the rest as children, you would be able to do a tag:Animal search and get all the notes even without any of them being tagged with Animal. 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On 4/4/2016 at 11:47 AM, Christozoid said:

When browsing an outline system for notes about Car Loan for example, one would normally  start from a larger category like "Private" note, then drill down to “Car” subnote> “Loan” sub-subnote etc.

How then do you browse in Evernote?
In Evernote, do you star by filtering the whole stack for the “Loan” tag, then test each “Loan” tag to see if they are related to the “Home” notebook, the Finance notebook, or the car notebook?

Because of the greater capability and flexibility of tags over notebooks, I would model your needs using tags, specifically Using Tags as Pseudo Notebooks 

  • .NB.Private
    • .NB.Home
      • other sub-categories as you like
      • I have quite a few "Home." tags, probably more than most people
      • It is totally up to you how broad or detailed you get with sub-categories
      • Here's my list: (which will be more than most people want)
        EN-Mac-6.6-Tags-Home-List.png
    • .NB.Car
      • I have a similar sub-cat tag list for my cars (which I call "Auto")
    • .NB.Finance
      • Loan
    • .NB.Travel
    • etc

Just like you would always assign a Notebook to a Note, I would always assign at least one pseudo NB (those tags with a prefix of ".NB.") to a note.  So in your diagram, all "private" notes would have a tag of ".NB.Private".

For a note that is info about a loan, I would tag it like this:

  • .NB.Private
  • .NB.Finance
  • Loan
  • and then whichever other category applied, could be both:
    • .NB.Home
      OR
    • .NB.Car

Now when you search for, say car loans, it would be:
tag:.NB.Car tag:Loan

If you want to browse through your home stuff, then click on the .NB.Private tag to expand, and then expand the .NB.Home tag.  There you would see all of your "Home." tags, and click on whichever one you want to explore.

If you want to see cross-cutting tags like "Loan", click on ".NB.Home" to filter the list for that tag.
Then click on the Tags filter, and ADD "Loan".
Now you see a list of notes related to loans for your home.

I have one other tag hierarchy I call "MY STUFF".  I use these tags to clearly identify notes about stuff that is actually mine, vs about the same subject, but is just information.  For example, "MY.Books" are books that I actually own, whereas "Books" would include those as well as other books I may have some interest in, or that are reviews of, use as a reference, etc. 

You could use just one tag named "Mine", but I like having:

  • MY.Books
  • My.Doctor
  • MY.History
  • MY.House
  • etc

This has become a very long list, so it is probably better to to use one tag for "Mine" and then another tag that I already have, like "MED.Doctor" instead of also having "MY.Doctor", OR like "Mine" and "Books".
You decide which way you like best.

Please see my post on  Using Tags as Pseudo Notebooks for more details and examples.

Well, I hope this gives you some ideas.  Please feel free to come back with questions.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Ho-hum.  I have been an unenthusiastic user of Evernote for several years.  Its capabilities for me to put web clips, documents, emails, etc. into shared notebooks and enable offline notebooks makes it extremely useful for travel planning.  Unenthusiastic because it is so crippled by its cave-man folder structure.

I check these forums every 6 months to a year and it is always the same:  Never is there an announcement that the deficiency is being fixed.  Instead, there is always an Evernote zealot, having newly discovered the wheel, patiently explaining how tags can be used as a workaround for the lack of a folder hierarchy.  Workaround, children.  It's a workaround.  Workarounds are bad and they come to bad ends.

I do marvel though at the cave-man level of intelligence at Evernote that does not admit that this is a major design flaw.  I had many exposures to computer file systems before MS-DOS came along and I do not remember, even then, that any of them were as fundamentally crippled as Evernote is.  Maybe some were, in which case I will emit a sigh of gratitude that they have passed into the distant mists.

So I use Evernote as the limited, special-purpose tool that it is and I hope that, somehow, some way, the cave men will see the light.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
4 hours ago, Flier said:

Instead, there is always an Evernote zealot, having newly discovered the wheel, patiently explaining how tags can be used as a workaround for the lack of a folder hierarchy.  Workaround, children.  It's a workaround.  Workarounds are bad and they come to bad ends.

I'm not an " Evernote zealot", but I am a big user of Evernote and have learned how to take advantage of what it offers.  Are you just whining because you can't get what you want, or have you actually tried using tags?

Few things in life are perfect, and we most always have to adapt the tools available (or affordable) for our specific uses.  Workarounds are NOT necessarily bad.  Sometimes a "workaround" is just a clever way of using a product for other than its original intended use.  Ignore the tools offered by Evernote at your own peril loss (bad choice of a word).

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
1 hour ago, Flier said:

So I use Evernote as the limited, special-purpose tool

Evernotes has notebooks/tags/searches as tools to fulfill user note collection requirements.
I'm not sure what your requirements are but if you identify them first; I'm sure you'll see that there are tools for them.
Its not a great process if you start your requirement definition by specifying a specific tool.

Examples of requirements:
- I need to identify all notes having xxxx in the text
- I need to identify all notes that I classed as xxxxx
- I need to share this collection of notes with other users
- I need to keep this collection of notes local and not sync/d to the cloud
 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
54 minutes ago, JMichaelTX said:

I'm not an " Evernote zealot", but I am a big user of Evernote and have learned how to take advantage of what it offers.  Are you just whining because you can't get what you want, or have you actually tried using tags?

Few things in life are perfect, and we most always have to adapt the tools available (or affordable) for our specific uses.  Workarounds are NOT necessarily bad.  Sometimes a "workaround" is just a clever way of using a product for other than its original intended use.  Ignore the tools offered by Evernote at your own peril.

I'm not going to get into an extended debate here but I will tell you what I have learned during a career in engineering and computing:  Bad tools are bad.  They are bad even if one can figure out how to use them via workarounds.  True craftsmen never use such tools willingly and, if they must use them in a limited way, they do not accept them as anything but an interim necessity while waiting for the better tool.  Poor craftsmen, OTOH, accept poor tools without even understanding what they are doing.

"Peril"  ??!! The zealots will attack?  I am terrified.

(I guess the attack has already started.) DTLow:  My requirement is for an information organizing tool whose basic approach, hierarchical folders, is consistent with every other computer file system in the known universe.  I do not need a car where the gas pedal must be pulled upwards to accelerate, despite the fact that such a car would meet the requirement of having an accelerator.

End of discussion from my end.  I'm gone again for another six months, at which time I'll be back to check on the cave men.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
10 hours ago, Flier said:

My requirement is for an information organizing tool whose basic approach, hierarchical folders, is consistent with every other computer file system in the known universe.

I think you're looking at the wrong software.  Evernote doesn't use a note folder methodology.

I'd describe it more as a note label methodology.
Its kind of the latest thing in organization.  Even computer file systems are starting to use it by adding file tags

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
3 hours ago, Flier said:

"Peril"  ??!! The zealots will attack?  I am terrified.

Sorry, no attack intended.  I really meant "loss", as in your loss by not using the tools Evernote provides.

3 hours ago, Flier said:

I'm gone again for another six months, at which time I'll be back to check on the cave men.

Too bad.  Us cave men and women just unearthed a gold mine in the EN Win 6 Beta -- full tag inheritance.  Probably coming to a Mac near you soon.  But then you don't use tags . . .

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hi there.  Amazing product you have.  Unless I'm missing something, I would love to have the ability to nest multiple notebooks.  Like sub-notebooks

For example:

Notebook Stack:
     To-Do
           Work
                 Job1234
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
                 Job4321
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
          Home
                 To-Buy
                       Shoprite
                       Costco
                       Lowes
                 To-Fix
                       Kitchen
                       Master Bedroom

 

Thanks so much.  I couldn't live without evernote.  I use it on my phone, ipad, laptop, desktop.  Truly a terrific product.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
8 hours ago, magkcbw said:

I would love to have the ability to nest multiple notebooks.  Like sub-notebooks

For notebooks, the best you can do is store a collection of notebooks in a stack.
Only one level of nesting.

Have you looked at tags; there's no limit to the nesting levels
People do use notebooks for organization, but notebooks have limitations. 
They are more suited for their special features with collections of notes such as Trash, Local, Offline, Shared

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hi there, thank you for the reply and your workaround.  It's appreciated. I thought tags were just keywords to search by, but if you are saying no limit to nesting levels I must have not understood it properly.  I'll read up on it.

Just out of curiosity, why the restriction?  If evernote is about note taking and organization and all that, what is the purpose of locking it down with restrictions.  Since it wouldn't change the way people who use it as it is, it would only be an enhancement for organization freaks like me.  If it's just a matter of wording, make a sub-notebooks or some such. 

No restrictions my friend DTLow...where are we?  Communist China? ***** Germany?  Give me nesting or give me death!  

In all seriousness, I appreciate your help.  Thanks for your time.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On May 14, 2016 at 9:24 AM, magkcbw said:

Just out of curiosity, why the restriction?  If evernote is about note taking and organization and all that, what is the purpose of locking it down with restrictions.  Since it wouldn't change the way people who use it as it is, it would only be an enhancement for organization freaks like me.  If it's just a matter of wording, make a sub-notebooks or some such. 

Maybe restrictions was the wrong word - how about limitations. I edited my post.

Notebooks and Tags are different tools.

If I want my notes to be  local/offline/syncd/sharedI use a Notebook

If I want to organize my notes with multi-levels, I use a Tag

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I need this functionality too it is severely crippling and illogical to use pseudo tagging. Here's 90% of my workflows:

  1. Gather data for things I research on the internet.
  2. Clip found data into evernote, thanks to webclipper it almost always picks the right notebook to clip into.
  3. Brainstorm/grade collected data later on, easy to do with almost folder like hierarchy.

But I've ran up a ton of note stacks. I need deeper nesting. 

So this is what my new workflow should be?

  1. Gather data on the internet.
  2. Clip it into evernote.
  3. Think about hierarchical tag structure for that note
  4. Implement tag structure to each clipped note manually
  5. Note down my tag structure in some graphical overview/make a picture
  6. Use the correct tag search to get all my tags for the "folder"
  7. Brainstorm/grade collected data later on

Seriously? That's extremely primitive. I'll jump ship towards another note taking tool as soon as I find one with pdf and ocr searching which is somewhat as advanced as Evernote. Does Evernote realize/care that it's ruining its industry leading product by simply not caring about a functionality that has been requested for 8 years and has been shoved aside without a single explanation why it will not be implemented?

Also please consider how annoying this would be on an android. I don't know about everyone else but my typing speed on a mobile is at least halfed compared to the desktop if not quartered. So am I really expected to type out PDFs.Biology.Cancer.Research.In-Vivo.Finished to find my pdf's? You know what would help a lot in this case? Folder-like tree navigation that you simply open up with a finger tap.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On 6/3/2016 at 9:46 AM, vetmode said:

Clip found data into evernote, thanks to webclipper it almost always picks the right notebook to clip into.

I find the EN Clipper also almost always picks the right primary tag to use.

In my case, those are pseudo Notebook tags, which, for most purposes, work just like an actual Notebook.
Now that EN Win has tag inheritance (as an option), clicking on a top-level tag, shows all Notes that have it, or any of its child tags, as a tag.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

In my opinion, the difference between a folder structure and tag structure is the role of the order.
In a folder structure AB is not the same as BA where is in a tag structure they are the same

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
9 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

In my opinion, the difference between a folder structure and tag structure is the role of the order.
In a folder structure AB is not the same as BA where is in a tag structure they are the same

Can you explain that further,
and how folders enter this discussion?  So far we have Stacks, Notebooks, and Tags

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I think the reference to folder is to make it clear that the notebook structure is analogous to the folders structure in Windows.

Tags is definitely the way to go. I ditched most of my notebooks and put everything in one notebook except for special notebooks which I have for shared or offline notes. The multiple tags means that you can tag with tags that are not in the same tree (it's not just the equivalence of AB and BA). So in the OPs original folder structure a note  could be tagged with "to buy" and "kitchen". There would also be no need for two notebooks (or tags) named "on-site notes". 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
7 hours ago, Mike P said:

I think the reference to folder is to make it clear that the notebook structure is analogous to the folders structure in Windows

So A and B are folders (like Windows filing)  compared to A and B tags in Evernote
and

>>@Mata Hari: In a folder structure AB is not the same as BA where is in a tag structure they are the same

Indicating using folders, you would have to copy the note to put it into both folders A and B

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

To me the structure of EN built on Notes Notebooks Stacks is just a tree structure  with 3 levels (or 2 if you like to see the Notes as level 0) 
The theoretical basis is tree structure and there are many variations on that, the usual is folders and menus etc
In a tree structure, AB is not the same as BA (A and B are example of folder names)
But with MULTI TAGS you have no order. I can have tag T1 T2 or T2 T1 and it points to the same notes
Nesting tags is possible in EN to several levels.  But it is not a true tree structure.
If you search tag T2 it will return notes with that tag but not with T1. 
Therefore tags and folders are not the same thing.
I use both folder and tags to structuring. 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
2 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

To me the structure of EN built on Notes Notebooks Stacks is just a tree structure  with 3 levels (or 2 if you like to see the Notes as level 0) 

It is not a tree structure

Many users are trying to emulate the the file folder structure used in the computer operating systems, or physical filing cabinets.  IMO That emulation is more suitable to tags than notebooks.

>>Nesting tags is possible in EN to several levels.  But it is not a true tree structure.
That is correct, although a recent update in Windows makes the emulation more of a tree structure (hierarchical inheritance)

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I add to the plea for nested folders on stacks.  I have a stack for training, then general certification stuff, then my MCSA, Yes I have a tags in place, I could just start folders for each exam name under the training stack, Logic in the ADHD brain says tree structure - training should be geek and non geek.  I would rather have training --> MCSA server --> 70-410, 70-411 and 70-412.  Then have training --> MCSE server/cloud --> 70-413, 70-414, 70-246 and 70-247.  Then I could comfortably add other training aka ITIL and product training for work.  Tags are useful, but when you want just certain info in a single spot w/o a lot of searching.  

You could compare this to onenote Stack is the actual file, folders are top tabs, what I want is the useful side tabs aka chapters in the book.  at work I have generic tabs at top and then the tabs on side are for single key points aka product points.  for my studying I have an MCSE/MSCA Note book -aka stack, I have tabs each exam and general ones too, then on the right I have pages for each chapter reading or training course.  Since Evernote helps me orginize my entire life I need the opportunity to have stuff a layer or two deeper.  I would also love to see the ability to password protect single folders, such as a journal folder.  Tags are nice but many of us organize our lives around a tree structure,  Tags are great because you can use them across folders.    

 

That is just my opinion.  Thank you

 

Laura

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
2 hours ago, Crochetgeek2010 said:

I would rather have training --> MCSA server --> 70-410, 70-411 and 70-412.  Then have training --> MCSE server/cloud --> 70-413, 70-414, 70-246 and 70-247.  Then I could comfortably add other training aka ITIL and product training for work.

Is this the hierarchical organization that you want?

EN-Win-6.7.1-Tag-Example.png

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On 14.5.2016 at 10:07 AM, magkcbw said:

Hi there.  Amazing product you have.  Unless I'm missing something, I would love to have the ability to nest multiple notebooks.  Like sub-notebooks

For example:

Notebook Stack:
     To-Do
           Work
                 Job1234
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
                 Job4321
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
          Home
                 To-Buy
                       Shoprite
                       Costco
                       Lowes
                 To-Fix
                       Kitchen
                       Master Bedroom

 

Thanks so much.  I couldn't live without evernote.  I use it on my phone, ipad, laptop, desktop.  Truly a terrific product.

Please... I need this, too... I work in Music Production, Graphic Design, Web Design and Photography -among others.

There's no system of tags (as it is actually) that can help me to get my notes properly organized. I just need the ability to nest multiple notebooks. If I would do that with tags, that would be a terrible mess (not to mention that I can't have two tags with the same name!) There is "Noise" in Music Production, and in Photography, too. There is "Composition" in Music, in Design, and in Photography. What can I do, name the tags "Composition Music", "Composition Photography"? No, I won't, because that will make me loose a lot of time.

I need nested notebooks in unlimited levels, or at least five levels, or ten.
OR: The ability to color-code tags, so that I can have two or three "Composition" tags (one red for Photography, one blue for Design, ...)

I hope you can understand what I mean... There are people who just need a Notebook for Math, one for Geography, one for Chemistry... But there are many other people who need deeper, much deeper levels of Organization. Thanks.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Moved to the feedback forum to be better addressed as a feature request.

Please indicate your support for this request using the voting buttons in the upper left corner  Screen Shot 2016-06-21 at 7.30.47 AM.png

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
2 hours ago, Moolzel said:

Please... I need this, too... I work in Music Production, Graphic Design, Web Design and Photography -among others.

There's no system of tags (as it is actually) that can help me to get my notes properly organized. I just need the ability to nest multiple notebooks. If I would do that with tags, that would be a terrible mess (not to mention that I can't have two tags with the same name!) There is "Noise" in Music Production, and in Photography, too. There is "Composition" in Music, in Design, and in Photography. What can I do, name the tags "Composition Music", "Composition Photography"? No, I won't, because that will make me loose a lot of time.

I need nested notebooks in unlimited levels, or at least five levels, or ten.
OR: The ability to color-code tags, so that I can have two or three "Composition" tags (one red for Photography, one blue for Design, ...)

I hope you can understand what I mean... There are people who just need a Notebook for Math, one for Geography, one for Chemistry... But there are many other people who need deeper, much deeper levels of Organization. Thanks.

You can't have two notebooks with the same name either. Notebooks are not in any way like folders on a PC.

Since v6, tags will be added automatically to a new note if the desired tag is selected (just like if you create a note in a notebook). Therefore the only big sorting issue that separated the two earlier, is no longer an issue. Color coding tags is possible as well. 

PS. People need to stop "confusing" notebooks with folders. Like I have written before. When was the last time you put a physical notebook within another physical notebook? It makes no sense.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
3 hours ago, Moolzel said:

There's no system of tags (as it is actually) that can help me to get my notes properly organized

I don't understand that statement.  Have you really looked into using tags?

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
3 hours ago, Moolzel said:

There's no system of tags (as it is actually) that can help me to get my notes properly organized.

Use the same structure for tags as you would for notebooks.  And as previously stated, can't have duplicate names - notebooks or tags, may have to do some prefixing.  Or make the top two levels be your stacks and notebooks and tag the rest.  If your are using the windows version the recently introduced tag inheritance might be a benefit.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

TL;DR: +1 for this request (I'm willing to pay some more to have this feature)

I've read all the discussion above and completely agreed with everyone who need this feature. There are so much useful contexts to have multiple levels notebook including mine (I've been looking for this feature very long time).

In my humble opinion, and in my point of view and in my cases of use, I found TAG completely useless (for me). Yes it is useful, I may use it in other systems. But with Evernote, I've never used it, I always search my note by its title or the parent notebook, why? because 1.) I've already organize it to the right place (although not completely satisfied because of lacking of this feature); and 2.) If using tag, I have another organizing system in my head to remember (actually I've tried to use it but since then, I completely delete all the tags in my Evernote, they don't fulfill my cases of use)

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
12 hours ago, kingtrn said:

In my humble opinion, and in my point of view and in my cases of use, I found TAG completely useless (for me). Yes it is useful, I may use it in other systems. But with Evernote, I've never used it, I always search my note by its title or the parent notebook, why? because 1.) I've already organize it to the right place (although not completely satisfied because of lacking of this feature); and 2.) If using tag, I have another organizing system in my head to remember (actually I've tried to use it but since then, I completely delete all the tags in my Evernote, they don't fulfill my cases of use)

That is really sad.
 Supposing instead of TAG, it was called FOLDER.  
Would you consider using it then?

Note - This works for the Windows/Mac Tag Hierarchies.  On my iPad, there is no hierarchy and the Tag<>Folder analogy fails

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
11 hours ago, kingtrn said:

I always search my note by its title or the parent notebook, why? because 1.) I've already organize it to the right place

Funny thing, I use tags for just the opposite reason, I don't want to have to remember where I put the note, which is why i use EN in the first place.  I can see why some would like deeper nesting of notebooks, just not for me.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
14 hours ago, kingtrn said:

TL;DR: +1 for this request (I'm willing to pay some more to have this feature)

I've read all the discussion above and completely agreed with everyone who need this feature. There are so much useful contexts to have multiple levels notebook including mine (I've been looking for this feature very long time).

In my humble opinion, and in my point of view and in my cases of use, I found TAG completely useless (for me). Yes it is useful, I may use it in other systems. But with Evernote, I've never used it, I always search my note by its title or the parent notebook, why? because 1.) I've already organize it to the right place (although not completely satisfied because of lacking of this feature); and 2.) If using tag, I have another organizing system in my head to remember (actually I've tried to use it but since then, I completely delete all the tags in my Evernote, they don't fulfill my cases of use)

It sounds to me like you are comparing tags in Evernote with tags in other software, which is unfair since I have yet to come across any other software which has implemented tags in any way similar to the way Evernote does.

The most fair description of tags in Evernote would be "Folders on a PC, except you can also place the same file in more than one folder".

However to mirror folders on a PC you now have to uncheck "automatically select child tags" in options in v6, as this new function makes Evernote behave more similar to how other software uses tags (like labels for filtering).

Take OPs post as an example.

Notebook Stack:
     To-Do
           Work
                 Job1234
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
                 Job4321
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
          Home
                 To-Buy
                       Shoprite
                       Costco
                       Lowes
                 To-Fix
                       Kitchen
                       Master Bedroom

 

This can be solved in many ways but the most easy way would be the following:

1. Have only ONE notebook called "My notes".

2. Create and drag and drop tags in a nest just like above. Done.

Now say I am fixing the kitchen and for that I have to buy a sink. I find a sink online on the Costco website and I clip it. If I am using a folder on a pc or a notebook to store it in, i would be forced to chose between putting the file in Costco under To-buy or in Kitchen under To-fix.

With tags, I put it in both. Now if i want to find it again later, i just navigate the tag nest/tag tree...

And since v6 you don't even have to type the first tag when creating a new note, if it already exists. You just navigate and click the desired tag in the nest and then click new note. The note will then automatically be placed under that tag (like creating a new file in a folder, or a new file in a notebook).

As a side note Evernote is also limited to 250 notebooks, but I have 11.000 tags..

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
19 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

11.000 tags

Wow.  And I thought I had a lot with 400!  ;)

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
4 hours ago, csihilling said:

Wow.  And I thought I had a lot with 400!  ;)

Well, my system is not for everyone that is for sure. :) 

The main reason for why the number is so large is that a lot of my tags are a description of a single note/just a couple of notes, in a complete sentence, which makes tag search work partly like seach suggestions on google, only personalised.

 

Not that this is the best example, but let me give a fictive example:

Say I have a note about the movie Se7en. I might tag it with "Movies" "Thriller" "Scary" "Morgan Freeman" "Brad Pitt" and "Deadly sins"

My tags would be nested like:

Movies
      Actors(empty tag just for sorting)
                Brad Pitt
                Morgan Freeman
      Movie genres(empty tag just for sorting)
                Thriller
Topics(empty tag just for sorting)
      Deadly sins
Emotion(empty tag just for sorting)
      Scary

 

But I might also IN ADDITION to those tags, tag it with

"Se7en - Great movie and scary thriller about deadly sins starring Brad Pitt & Morgan Freeman".

In that way I have myself decided that those are the values i consider extra important for that movie/note. Now if I am in the mood for a scary movie, and do a tag search for "scary" - the whole description for Se7en will show up among the tag suggestions.

So why put this description in a tag and not in the note body? Because then that note about Se7en will compete with 200 other notes that are clipped reviews of different movies where the reviewer thought the movie was "scary" (which I may not agree with at all) or "NOT scary" which will still be displayed in the search results. The search result will also show a note containing an interview with a hockey player, that in one of his irrelevant answers mention a scary cat he saw once..

So why not put it in the note title instead and search intitle:? Because if I then were to clip a note called "10 best thrillers of all time", I can still tag it with "Se7en - Great movie and scary thriller about deadly sins starring Brad Pitt & Morgan Freeman" along with a new tag called "Memento - Great movie and weird thriller that deals with amnesia starring Guy Pearce".

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
24 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

Well, my system is not for everyone

That's for sure :).  I would start with the keyword "movie" and go from there :D.  I don't have the discipline to pull that level of tagging off for the long term, but I do admire those that use very structured tagging methods.  It is always interesting to me to see how others use the service.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

@gustavgi

Thanks for explanation.  I see how it works for you, which is a good lesson for anyone reading the thread.  It has to be a special tag to still exist for me if it has less than 10 notes using it.

Totally off topic, I like the two movie examples, how would you tag Blade Runner?

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
24 minutes ago, csihilling said:

@gustavgi

Thanks for explanation.  I see how it works for you, which is a good lesson for anyone reading the thread.  It has to be a special tag to still exist for me if it has less than 10 notes using it.

Totally off topic, I like the two movie examples, how would you tag Blade Runner?

"Great movie and sci-fi noir thriller where Harrison Ford probably is a robot" ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
2 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

"Great movie and sci-fi noir thriller where Harrison Ford probably is a robot" ;)

:D

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

why do most of you just troll those of us that like nesting more notebooks?? tags might work great for you and that's cool... i'm glad you like it... but your way doesn't work for me!

Evernote PLEASE listen our request... this won't affect the "tag-fans" and will surely benefit the 

On 5/14/2016 at 11:24 AM, magkcbw said:

organization freaks

as @magkcbw, myself, and many more!!

 

On 6/12/2016 at 0:13 PM, Crochetgeek2010 said:

I add to the plea for nested folders on stacks

We have a tree-structured way of thinking and we prefer to work that way... 

Expecting to hear good news very soon...

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
19 hours ago, guillermo_cb said:

why do most of you just troll those of us that like nesting more notebooks?? tags might work great for you and that's cool... i'm glad you like it... but your way doesn't work for me!

Evernote PLEASE listen our request... this won't affect the "tag-fans" and will surely benefit the 

It's not about trolling or being a fan of tags, but it's about the fact that the request to nest notebooks is basically a request to make notebooks into tags (in the way Evernote has implemented tags).

To give a dumb example, you are basically asking the creator of floppy disks to create a floppy disk with 4,7 gig storage because you prefer floppy disks instead of DVDs.

One of the main problems with making nesting of notebooks possible today, is that you also have a limitation of 250 notebooks and you can't give two notebooks the same name. As a lot of new EN users don't know that there is a 250 notebook limit, I'm pretty sure that EN would receive a lot of complaints from users that start to create a notebook nest system they like, and then would suddenly get the message that you are not allowed to create anymore notebooks at 250.

The funny thing as well is that Evernote notebooks has more in common with tags in other software, than Evernote tags themselves.

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On June 24, 2016 at 4:38 PM, guillermo_cb said:

why do most of you just troll those of us that like nesting more notebooks??

I thought it as offering a solution for users looking for an organization hierarchy

but then, I'm not one of the ???

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On 6/25/2016 at 2:15 PM, gustavgi said:

it's about the fact that the request to nest notebooks is basically a request to make notebooks into tags (in the way Evernote has implemented tags).

Perhaps from your point of view, but I suspect not from that of many others, including the OP and @guillermo_cb.  I would guess they are *requesting* that Evernote Notebooks to work like Mac and Windows folders.

On 6/25/2016 at 2:15 PM, gustavgi said:

To give a dumb example, you are basically asking the creator of floppy disks to create a floppy disk with 4,7 gig storage because you prefer floppy disks instead of DVDs.

Well, you said it, it is a "dumb" example, and is not analogous at all to asking for more full featured Notebook capability.

On 6/25/2016 at 2:15 PM, gustavgi said:

One of the main problems with making nesting of notebooks possible today, is that you also have a limitation of 250 notebooks and you can't give two notebooks the same name.

There are numerous changes that would have to be made in concert with providing hierarchical Notebooks, so I don't see the issue here.

On 6/25/2016 at 2:15 PM, gustavgi said:

The funny thing as well is that Evernote notebooks has more in common with tags in other software, than Evernote tags themselves.

That doesn't make any sense to me.  Tags, in all apps I know of, including lots of blogs, are designed to cut across the main structure of the app/web site, and to allow multiple tags per topic.  This forum is a great example.  Each topic can belong to only one sub-forum, but multiple tags can be assigned to the same topic, and the same tag can be assigned to topics in multiple sub-forums.  As we all know, each EN Note can belong to one, and only one, Notebooks, just like files and folders.

BTW, my statements have nothing to do with my preference to use tags or notebooks.  As some of you may know, earlier in the year I reorganized my Evernote account to primarily use tags, which I call "pseudo Notebooks".  But it was not because I wanted to, it was because I had to due to the way Evernote has highly constrained the use of Notebooks.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
2 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

That doesn't make any sense to me.  Tags, in all apps I know of, including lots of blogs, are designed to cut across the main structure of the app/web site, and to allow multiple tags per topic.  This forum is a great example.  Each topic can belong to only one sub-forum, but multiple tags can be assigned to the same topic, and the same tag can be assigned to topics in multiple sub-forums.  As we all know, each EN Note can belong to one, and only one, Notebooks, just like files and folders.

BTW, my statements have nothing to do with my preference to use tags or notebooks.  As some of you may know, earlier in the year I reorganized my Evernote account to primarily use tags, which I call "pseudo Notebooks".  But it was not because I wanted to, it was because I had to due to the way Evernote has highly constrained the use of Notebooks.

What I meant was that tags in most other software, including this forum, are used only as a keyword to help identify the content that has been tagged and to make collections. The latter is very much the purpose of EN notebooks as the software is today, where you are not allowed to have more than 250 collections/notebooks (a physical notebook is a collection of notes).

Outside of EN they also have a flat structure where every tag has the same visual value, and if you are lucky they will be somewhere sorted in an non-hierarchical alphabetical list similar to EN notebooks or maybe displayed in a tag cloud.

In EN they have been given a locational and navigational function. A tag can be a child-tag to a parent-tag, like a folder can be sub-folder inside another folder. And like folders (and unlike other software where hierarchical tags have been implemented) you can have a file tagged with a child-tag without it also showing up in the parent-tag.

And depending on how picky you are, one could easily say that the first tag a EN note is tagged with is the "actual location" of the note, while the other tags represent Windows folders where you have placed a file-shortcut to the text-file. In EN, there is no similar way to place a shortcut to a file in a different notebook, inside another notebook.

Either way, I will always have a hard time to see why it would be a negative thing to have an OPTION, to also put a note inside more than one location.

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
6 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

What I meant was that tags in most other software, including this forum, are used only as a keyword to help identify the content that has been tagged and to make collections. The latter is very much the purpose of EN notebooks as the software is today where you are not allowed to have more than 250 collections/notebooks (a physical notebook is a collection of notes).

Given your view of Notebooks, I now understand your confusion between Notebooks and Tags.

Each person can, of course, use the tools that Evernote provides in whatever way makes sense to that person.

But if Evernote provided Notebooks that fully modeled computer folders, then I would organize my notes in a very different way.  Below is a very, very simple, incomplete example, just to illustrate the fundamental difference between Notebooks and Tags:

  1. Notebooks would be broad categories of Notes, with the category (Notebook) being the primary category
  2. Sub-notebooks would work just like subfolders, organizing the info, and breaking it down into subcategories
    1. For example, I would file insurance documents in the Notebook the insurance was for, like Home, Auto, Boat (probably in the sub-notebooks for that thing, e.g. "Jeep 2014", or "House Houston", etc)
    2. Since we could have duplicate notebook names with different parents, I would have the same set of sub-notebooks for each Auto, so I would probably have a subnotebook named "Insurance"
  3. Tags would be use for cross-cutting categories, where a category might be useful in multiple Notebooks.
    1. For example, I would have an "Insurance" tag that allows me to pull all of my insurance documents regardless of its notebook -- or at least that is how I'm doing it now
    2. If Notebooks could have subnotbooks with the same name, then maybe I don't need an "Insurance" tag, IF I can just as easily search for all folders named "Insurance".  But for this to be useful, I'd need a results display that also showed the parent Notebook, or maybe the whole path.
    3. I would have tags for Locations, People, etc
  4. Tags would also be used for utility purposes, for things like "Favorite".

So notebooks would be great for browsing, and for viewing by drill-down of all notes for a particular sub-notebook.  For example, I can go to my "Jeep 2014" Notebook to see everything associated with it, including all of its subfolders.

Tags are great when you have a good idea of the keywords for the subject of interest.
Notebooks are much better than tag when you can remember the material, or would just like to browse, kinda like paging through an old scrapbook you made as a kid, or one your grandmother made that you never knew about.

Finally, Notebooks are far superior for things that have a natural hierarchy, like Projects > Sub-Projects > Tasks > Sub-tasks

Let me remind the reader again, all of this is a very, very big IF.  It is theoretical.   It is how I would organize IF we had full featured Notebooks.  But alas, we don't, so I have to resort to using tags as best I can to model Notebooks.  Don't bother to tell me that I can to most everything with tags.  I already know that, and have done that.  But tags and full featured Notebooks are not the same.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
27 minutes ago, JMichaelTX said:

But if Evernote provided Notebooks that fully modeled computer folders, then I would organize my notes in a very different way.  

I have the opposite view; but whatever works for you
I happily left the computer folder model years ago, and never looked back.

Even if Evernote opened notebooks for hierarchy;
I would still only use notebooks for their feature of default/sync/local/offline/share 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
8 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I have the opposite view.

And that is fine.  As often stated in these forums, use what works best for you.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
1 hour ago, JMichaelTX said:

Given your view of Notebooks, I now understand your confusion between Notebooks and Tags.

It's all about perspective I guess.

I see notebooks for what they are, both in the context of EN as well as the physical notebooks they derive from (which are never "nested"). You are saying I'm confused about the difference, when it looks to me like it's you who either wish for or have already made up your mind that EN notebooks are something that they are not, by both ignoring the skeuomorph and the actual implementation.

But like all feature requests, it's a fair request to ask for the replacement of notebooks in favor of a OS folder system. But at the same time I do think it's reasonable to reflect on how likely it is that EN would lift the 250 notebook limit, the ability to nest and the restriction of identical names, while trying to guide frustrated users who think that the pros of folders can't be met with tags (except that two tags can't have the same name just as notebooks).

I also want to mention again that the most important step tags made towards being equal with windows folders was the implementation of automatic tagging of the tag selected, when creating a new note. This mirrors the behavior that when you have opened a folder and create a new note, the note will be placed in that folder. Prior to v6, you had to add the tag manually. Now you can navigate among the nested tags and then create your note.

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
4 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

I see notebooks for what they are

I would suggest a better wording would be "as you perceive them to be".  This is after all, a feature request, so it is only natural and expected that the requester is asking for something different.

7 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

I do think it's reasonable to reflect on how likely it is that EN would lift the 250 notebook limit, the ability to nest and the restriction of identical names,

I don't think any of us is qualified to provide a reliable projection of what Evernote will or won't do.
Very recently, Evernote made a major change in EN Win as to how tags work, which I think was a big surprise to many people.

I think the issue the requesters perceive is that every time this request is made, people like you repeatedly come out and try to tell them what is wrong with their request, and that they should change to the way you are doing it.

This gets old very fast.

Why not just present your approach, without being critical of the request, as an alternative/workaround until/if Evernote implements the request?

15 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

it looks to me like it's you who either wish for or have already made up your mind that EN notebooks are something that they are not

If you read all of my prior post, then you would realize that I am clear on the limitations of the current Notebook design, and have already developed my own workaround to these limitations.  But yes, I would prefer that Evernote provide Notebooks modeled after folders.

18 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

the physical notebooks they derive from (which are never "nested")

Actually, physical notebooks are "nested" all the time -- the "sub-notebooks" are called "dividers".
But the physical notebook metaphor is irrelevant once we get beyond the concept of a collection of notes.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
28 minutes ago, JMichaelTX said:

I think the issue the requesters perceive is that every time this request is made, people like you repeatedly come out and try to tell them what is wrong with their request, and that they should change to the way you are doing it.

This gets old very fast.

Why not just present your approach, without being critical of the request, as an alternative/workaround until/if Evernote implements the request?

Like I wrote, the request regarding a change of the way notebooks work is totally fair, and I have not told anyone that they are wrong about their request. However I do get the impression that most of the requesters do seem to have a wrong idea about what tags are for, and at that point it is natural to discuss difference in functionality.

I also think I have yet to see an answer to why tags isn't working for them, as the standard answer is usually more along the lines like "I just don't like tags".

28 minutes ago, JMichaelTX said:

Actually, physical notebooks are "nested" all the time -- the "sub-notebooks" are called "dividers".

Yeah, and the borders of those individual "divider" pages, where there usually is some room for writing and that often has some color, are called tags (and/or tabs).

Edited by gustavgi

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
10 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

Yeah, and the borders of those individual "divider" pages, where there usually is some room for writing and that often has some color, are called tags (and/or tabs).

I've never heard them called anything by "tabs".  Even if the term "tags" was used, it would be in a totally different context.
The point is notebooks are subdivided all the time, regardless of what you call the divider.  So, in that context, physical notebooks are nested.

I think the point you are missing is that tags generally are not thought of as containers, but as a means to search across a lot of documents regardless of what container they are stored in.  Whereas notebooks and folders are clearly containers.  Evernote has blurred the line a bit, first with hierarchical tags, and now with the EN Win option to include child tags when the parent tag is used in a search.  But that is still not as solid as full-featured notebooks would be.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Since the "official line" here at EN seems to be "tags rule" and "stackable folders suck" I don't really expect this comment to persist. But, why is this an either/or issue? EN CAN offer both... and they should. People have made it obvious they would pay for this. As I would have. I won't now, of course. There are options out there that already offer this.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On June 27, 2016 at 5:35 AM, lastevns said:

Since the "official line" here at EN seems to be "tags rule" and "stackable folders suck" I don't really expect this comment to persist. But, why is this an either/or issue? EN CAN offer both... and they should. People have made it obvious they would pay for this. As I would have. I won't now, of course. There are options out there that already offer this.

My understanding of the "official line" at Evernote is
- if you want default/sync/local/offline/shared, there is a notebook feature
- a tag feature has been provided as a further organization tool
- the folder model is not a feature; there's only stacks, notebooks, and tags
   I hink this model was rejected from the very beginning
- the software is free

>>tags rule
I'm not sure why you say this, although I do know that a tag hierarchy feature does exist on some platforms

>>There are options out there that already offer this.
Can you provide more details on this.  Actually most of the operating systems provide "stackable folders" as their native file organization

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Thanks for your posts guys, and separate thanks to  JMichaelTX for giving nice detalization of your idea with tags with illustrated examples!!

I have tested your suggested idea a bit creating sample 2 braches of 3 level depth tags and assigning them to notes

What i can say  - on my opinion it solves some part of "problem" indeed,

The search text box for tags helps in this, what i mean is 

If you have such tags hierarchy

  • Home
    •  Home.furniture
      • , Home.furniture.table
  • Office
    •  Office.furniture
      •  Office.furniture.table

And then you process some note which by some means relates to your office table and home table :)

  • Then your note will have all 6 tags 
  • Your note can be found if you go to tag search and enter text 'table' - tag search will smartly recognize this word in both "Home.furniture.table" and "Office.furniture.table" and outputs  both those tags

It solves the problem though you will pay for it:

  • The most low level tags will be very long named - not too user friendly + will take time to pick them when you have big tree of tags
  • Each particular note in most cases will contain very many tags, and remember each tag is pretty long named
  • As mentioned by Flier   - this approach (EN team pushes us to use it) is workaround and breaks logical way of things most people stick to, the user should have small pack of simple tags and nicely structured hierarchy of his notes, not vice versa!   

I have 'book case' and on first 'shelve' i have section regarding 'world war 2' in which i have 'machinery' book with section regarding 'tanks' which is marked as 'Tanks' in book glossary, i dont have one giant book with all human knowledge and really long named glossary! En team what do you smoke? :)

And if seriously if your ideology  is "we care only about notebooks and notes and EN is quick thing to put a quick note, other things are out of scope" - what can we say? we can not argue with that, each finds its own solution

For now i will try approach suggested by JMichaelTX s for some time but by the look of things will eventually use 2 levels of notebooks untill spot some alternative

Cheers guys.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
2 hours ago, qwebek said:

Thanks for your posts guys, and separate thanks to  JMichaelTX for giving nice detalization of your idea with tags with illustrated examples!!

I have tested your suggested idea a bit creating sample 2 braches of 3 level depth tags and assigning them to notes

What i can say  - on my opinion it solves some part of "problem" indeed,

The search text box for tags helps in this, what i mean is 

If you have such tags hierarchy

  • Home
    •  Home.furniture
      • , Home.furniture.table
  • Office
    •  Office.furniture
      •  Office.furniture.table

And then you process some note which by some means relates to your office table and home table :)

  • Then your note will have all 6 tags 
  • Your note can be found if you go to tag search and enter text 'table' - tag search will smartly recognize this word in both "Home.furniture.table" and "Office.furniture.table" and outputs  both those tags

It solves the problem though you will pay for it:

  • The most low level tags will be very long named - not too user friendly + will take time to pick them when you have big tree of tags
  • Each particular note in most cases will contain very many tags, and remember each tag is pretty long named
  • As mentioned by Flier   - this approach (EN team pushes us to use it) is workaround and breaks logical way of things most people stick to, the user should have small pack of simple tags and nicely structured hierarchy of his notes, not vice versa!   

I have 'book case' and on first 'shelve' i have section regarding 'world war 2' in which i have 'machinery' book with section regarding 'tanks' which is marked as 'Tanks' in book glossary, i dont have one giant book with all human knowledge and really long named glossary! En team what do you smoke? :)

And if seriously if your ideology  is "we care only about notebooks and notes and EN is quick thing to put a quick note, other things are out of scope" - what can we say? we can not argue with that, each finds its own solution

For now i will try approach suggested by JMichaelTX s for some time but by the look of things will eventually use 2 levels of notebooks untill spot some alternative

Cheers guys.

 

Let me make a suggestion here, based on the idea that tags are not inherently hierarchical (you you can organize them like that in Evernote if you want), much like words in a language are not inherently hierarchical. Consider that in the English language, for one, the same word can mean different things in different contexts; say for example, the word 'can': it can be a noun, a verb, or a verbal auxiliary. It all depends on the context, and native English speakers rarely get confused (English is rife with examples of words with multiple meanings, particularly since it tends towards being less inflected than more). Now consider that tags can be used as a descriptive vocabulary, rather than a hierarchy, where a tag can mean a different attribute or adjective in different contexts. Let's take your examples:

  • Home
    •  Home.furniture
      • , Home.furniture.table
  • Office
    •  Office.furniture
      •  Office.furniture.table

I would do something like the following. Define four tags: Home, Office, furniture, and table. Then, when I get a new table for my home, I tag it with Home, furniture, and table. Now it's easy to find all furniture via search (search for tag:furniture), or all tables (search for tag:table), as well as all furniture in your home (search for tag:home tag:furniture). Notice that we do this all the time in our everyday use of language: we say "Hey, I just got a new table for my home", we don't say "Hey, I just got a new Home.furniture for my Home; it's a Home.furniture.table" (well, maybe they do in other languages, but I'm an English speaker writing in English, so...). We provide context for understanding what we say by combining simple attributes.

On the other hand, if you're addicted to traversing deep hierarchies to find your stuff, then tags are probably going to be more cumbersome than a true hierarchical storage system (which, by the way doesn't work so well for categorizing human knowledge, at least in my experience, but that's a topic for another day), and Evernote as it stands today may not be best suited for your needs.

Something for you to ponder...

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On 4/4/2016 at 9:06 PM, Flier said:

I'm not going to get into an extended debate here but I will tell you what I have learned during a career in engineering and computing:  Bad tools are bad.  They are bad even if one can figure out how to use them via workarounds.  True craftsmen never use such tools willingly and, if they must use them in a limited way, they do not accept them as anything but an interim necessity while waiting for the better tool.  Poor craftsmen, OTOH, accept poor tools without even understanding what they are doing.

Wow, this is so contrary to what I understand about tools and craftsmanship, it's hard to know where to begin. With respect to tools, tools typically have a designed use; sometimes tools are good for that use, and sometimes they're not so good. And sometimes they can be good for other uses, and sometimes not. But it's safe to say that the designer has an intended use for a tool that they produce.

Often, if you use a tool for what it's not intended to do, you will not produce a good result. With respect to Evernote, it has a simple design for organizing and sharing notes (which are the fundamental units here). Notebooks offer a simple partitioning of your notes database, and are one of the two fundamental units of note sharing, along with notes themselves. On the other hand, tags are just labels that we can apply to notes, and they comprise a way of building up a vocabulary for describing notes in your database. A simple design that has analogues in the real world, not to mention one that's very similar to the organizational scheme used by GMail.

This tool, Evernote, has proven useful to a fair number of people over time; I find that it has a natural design for my uses, and is in no way a workaround for anything. For example, I don't miss nested hierarchies in the least in Evernote; my use of notebooks mainly tends to model my need to share them. So while you may think it's a bad tool, I believe that it's just bad for your intended use, but that doesn't make it objectively bad. And if it's bad for your intended use, it's most likely not the tool for you.

On the subject of craftsmanship, I would say that true craftsmen tend to not use tools for purposes for which they're not intended. A true craftsman would probably not drive a nail with a screwdriver, no matter how perfectly designed that screwdriver was for driving screws (i.e., a good tool, but just not for driving nails). There are exceptions to this, of course: a great guitarist, say, Leo Kottke is going to sound a whole lot better on a bad guitar than you or I on the most exquisite guitar. Great artistry can overcome poor tools, but that's in the realm of outliers.

But overall, Evernote is not an intrinsically bad tool. It's great for some things, and not great at others, mainly because of its design philosophy.

We the cave men (and women) will not be holding our collective breath for your return; we'll just continue on happily using a tool that works for us.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Is it possible to have multiple levels of stacks?  For example, ideally, I will have a root stack named "Audio-Video", which contains stacks "Music" and "Photography".  And under "Music", I will have NoteBooks for each genre, e.g. "Jazz", "Classical", etc.  Can there be multiple layers of stacks?

I tried dragging my "Music" stack under "Audio-Video" and EverNote won't let me...

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
4 hours ago, Gear$Head said:

Is it possible to have multiple levels of stacks?  

No, there are no multiple levels for stacks (or notebooks)

For a multi-level hierarchy, you would need to look at tags.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Thanks DTLow & briancaldwell for suggesting hierarchy within Tags.  I have tried implementing it in the simple collection of notes that I have and it's working out so far.  Thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

MS One Note has started to encroach upon EverNotes strong areas, it would make sense for them to do so as well. Competition means improvement both sides. 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
9 hours ago, xbliss said:

MS One Note has started to encroach upon EverNotes strong areas, it would make sense for them to do so as well. Competition means improvement both sides. 

Evernote is constantly (in their view at least) improving,  but such a change seems like it would need them to throw away a lot of their current multi-OS multi-platform code,  and probably revamp their server farms too.  They'd need a very strong incentive to consider such a fundamental architecture change.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
21 hours ago, gazumped said:

but such a change seems like it would need them to throw away a lot of their current multi-OS multi-platform code,  and probably revamp their server farms too.

How would you know this?  Are you an Evernote employee, or do you have access to Evernote design documents?

If you have done any real programming, you should know it is pointless to guess about someone else's code, particularly putting your guesses (but stated as if you have real knowledge) in a way that could easily mislead those less informed.  I see no point, no value in it.

Why don't we just leave it up to Evernote to comment (if they choose to do so) on the difficulty and/or incentive to make any change.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On August 4, 2016 at 4:35 PM, gazumped said:

Evernote is constantly (in their view at least) improving,  but such a change seems like it would need them to throw away a lot of their current multi-OS multi-platform code,  and probably revamp their server farms too.  They'd need a very strong incentive to consider such a fundamental architecture change.

My thinking is that it could be implemented by adding a parent field to the notebook record, the same way they did the tag hierarchy.

Not a complicated change, but they would have to change the database and UI on all platforms.  
I'm still waiting for a view of tag hierarchy on my iPad.

There's also an argument along the lines of a Local notebook having child notebooks that are Syncd.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I would LOVE to see at least one more level of nesting added as well.

I understand how tags work completely. They do not suite my needs. They are not as prominently featured in the side navigation. There are many valid reasons as discussed here why they do not suite all users.

Does anyone understand Evernote's current reason for only supporting 2-level deep nesting?

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On 8/8/2016 at 4:14 PM, J Henry said:

I would LOVE to see at least one more level of nesting added as well.

I understand how tags work completely. They do not suite my needs. They are not as prominently featured in the side navigation. There are many valid reasons as discussed here why they do not suite all users.

Does anyone understand Evernote's current reason for only supporting 2-level deep nesting?

I'm guessing that that's just the organizational system that they want to provide, as being more flexible than strict hierarchies (it's also very similar to the folder/label organization GMail uses). Stacks provide limited nesting; it's more of a grouping feature than an expression of any kind of real hierarchy.

I wouldn't expect full hierarchies to appear in Evernote any time soon; they might, but they might not, and in general, basing your tool choice on expectations rather than actual realities is usually a bad idea.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Prezados,

O Evernote carece de ter mais níveis de cadernos. Seria muito útil se pudessem ser criados mais níveis para melhor organizar os cadernos em

sub-cadernos, como se fosse uma árvore de diretórios.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

How is it that a thread created in 2008 with 34 pages of responses has yet to actually be acted on by Evernote? It's one my biggest frustrations that I'm limited in the number of folders I can categorize with. Tags are great for linking between notebooks, but they are definitely not notebooks themselves. For instance, I should have a folder with something like:

Research
   Book Highlights
      Book Title 1
      Book Title 2
      Book Title 3
   Personal Thoughts
   Definitions
   Webclippings
      Political
      Scientific

Personal
   Notes
      Christmas Presents
      House Projects
  Statements
      Bank

Work . . . [you get the idea]

And then my tags become useful as a way of connecting all of the notes together. This way, I'm not forced to have a massive list of stacks to choose from when I'm trying to find that on document or note. Ooooo we should call the next hierarchy "Bookshelf"! In my example, "Research" is one bookshelf with "Book Highlights" as a stack, "Book Title 1" as a notebook, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
8 minutes ago, Matthew Wimer said:

It's one my biggest frustrations that I'm limited in the number of folders I can categorize with. Tags are great for linking between notebooks, but they are definitely not notebooks themselves. For instance, I should have a folder with something like

Yes, another complaint is that Evernote doesn't use a folder methodology, but that's another topic

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Although Evernote does not have an entity named "folder", I think most of us understand that when some person says "folder(s)" they usually mean "notebook(s)".

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
1 hour ago, JMichaelTX said:

Although Evernote does not have an entity named "folder", I think most of us understand that when some person says "folder(s)" they usually mean "notebook(s)".

That may be true, but as I said Evernote doesn't use a folder methodology,
I'm
referring to folder
                            > sub-folder
                                      > sub-sub-folder
                                         ......

People will be disappointed if they equate folders and notebooks.  In addition to the hierarchy issue, notebooks serve a different purpose.

My impression is tha people are using the wrong product if they require a folder structure, although it can be emulated with tags.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hi. As you can tell this is a slightly emotive topic.  You are completely right in that adding an hierarchical structure to the database wouldn't prevent those who prefer tags or titles (that's me) continuing to use the bits of Evernote that they find most useful and ignoring the rest.  (Isn't that always the way..;))

These topics - and this argument discussion is just a replay of several preceding l-o-n-g threads around here - tend to spin off from newer users starting from "how can any self-respecting note-taking software not have a folder hierarchy?"

To which the answer is.  Along with a bunch of other decisions about note size,  upload limits,  search grammar and color schemes,  Evernote decided to build their app the way it is.  If you'd like to use it now,  get used to tags.  Tags can be your friend because....(see previous discussion).

It is perfectly reasonable to want nestable notebooks.  However, in 8 years of arguments,  Evernote have not commented (AFAIK) or demonstrated one way or the other any prospect of this ever happening.  That said,  they worked on a 'common editor' project for a couple of years before mentioning it to users (Macs are just getting this now).  Maybe the nestable folders idea is coming,  or maybe it's not.

Evernote don't (usually) comment publically on any development one way or the other.

If you'd like to vote for folders,  please go ahead - you never know...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On 8/17/2008 at 3:19 PM, cswsteve said:

I think Evernote is a fantastic product, especially with the iPhone integration. :) I currently use a program called UltraRecall because of it's heavy use of subfolders. This makes organizing my data very logical. I was wondering if Evernotes has a way to create subnotebooks under existing notebooks to help group numerious notebooks together?

Example Notebooks:

Work

Clients

Customer1

Customer2

Customer3

Customer4

Personal

Electronics

Web Clips

 

The Evernote Business has this feature. They call it the "Notebook Stack"

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
5 minutes ago, Aurora A. said:

The Evernote Business has this feature. They call it the "Notebook Stack"

I think all platforms/accounts have Notebook Stacks

However this discussion has evolved into requests for unlimited levels, similar to the tag hierarchy.

Alternatively, there are requests for Evernote to add folders and a folder hierarchy.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
55 minutes ago, Aurora A. said:

The Evernote Business has this feature. They call it the "Notebook Stack"

This is available on all platforms, as DTLow notes. This is not, however, a subfolder system; this is just a way to collect notebooks together. A true subfolder system would allow you to put notes into a stack, but that's not allowed here.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

It is disappointing that the request for nesting notebooks has not been implemented after such a long period of time with so many requests. I appreciate the comments concerning the use of tags, etc., but there are many of us who would prefer to have nested notebooks nonetheless. People have different means of organizing and managing their work and the absence of this feature sets limitations for those of us who have long used folder structures as a foundational element of our practice. As I am not willing to take the time to tag every item entered I have either had to create voluminous numbers of folders or limit my use of EVERNOTE. Neither of these makes me more productive.

Please consider this long-standing request for a valuable improvement to EVERNOTE.   Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
49 minutes ago, Tom Brewer said:

there are many of us who would prefer to have nested notebooks nonetheless. People have different means of organizing and managing their work and the absence of this feature sets limitations for those of us who have long used folder structures as a foundational element of our practice.

Please indicate your support for nested notebooks using the voting buttons in the upper left corner.

For sure, people have different methods of organization.
I happen to like the tag methodology.  I would not chose to use a product that doesn't support tags
I'm wondering: Why are you using Evernote if you need a folder structure?

>>As I am not willing to take the time to tag every item entered

But you are willing to take the time to search through a folder structure to file every item entered

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
2 hours ago, DTLow said:

Please indicate your support for nested notebooks using the voting buttons in the upper left corner.

For sure, people have different methods of organization.
I happen to like the tag methodology.  I would not chose to use a product that doesn't support tags
I'm wondering: Why are you using Evernote if you need a folder structure?

>>As I am not willing to take the time to tag every item entered

But you are willing to take the time to search through a folder structure to file every item entered

 

Thanks for your reply. I respect that you and other folks like the tag method and would not use a product that does not support them. As for myself and the way that I work I agree with one of the earliest posts in this thread that tags are for taxonomy and not organization. A folder structure is a better way to organize (again, in my opinion).

As for why I use Evernote if I need a folder structure, that is a very good question. On the positive side, there are many great features to Evernote that make life easier for me.  Among them are the web clipper and the great editing capability. There are certainly others. On the negative side, I end up using Evernote for some things that fit its model but have to depend upon other tools that include a folder structure for a larger portion of my work. If Evernote had a hierarchical folder structure I would gladly abandon the use of the other tools and consolidate everything therein.

As a matter of record, where I am able to use a folder structure it does not take me any time at all to locate what I am looking for. I have worked this way for many years and know how to use such a structure to my advantage. Also, I did indeed try earnestly to use tags for a while in Evernote. I became overwhelmed by the number of items that showed up with a certain tag. I then had to add tags upon tags to simulate a hierarchy to fit may way of thinking and organizing. This became too much effort for me, so that is why I said that "I am not willing to take the time to tag every item entered". I admire the fact that some folks are very proficient with that model, but I am 65 years old and am one of those dogs that cannot seem to learn new tricks very easily.

Again, thanks for your response.  Hope to interact with you again.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
36 minutes ago, Tom Brewer said:

As for myself and the way that I work I agree with one of the earliest posts in this thread that tags are for taxonomy and not organization. A folder structure is a better way to organize (again, in my opinion).

Tags are useful for describing things (if that's what you mean by 'taxonomy'), and that's how I tend to use them, but because they can be organized hierarchically, they can be used to reflect hierarchical organization as well -- indeed, multiple independent hierarchical organizations -- with some caveats. The big one is that tag names are unique: if you use a, say, 'Language' as a tag name, it can only exist in one location in your tag hierarchy (or hierarchies). If you assign a single tag from your hierarchy to a note, or to reverse that to resemble a folder analogue, put a note into a single tag in your hierarchy, then you can navigate the tag tree in much the same way as you navigate a folder tree (in the Windows client, anyways). And that's across notebooks, if you wish it, or restricted to a single notebook or a single stack if you wish that.

Sure, you need to tag every note if you want them to appear in your tag hierarchy, but you'd need to make sure that you're creating a note in the correct notebook if there were notebook hierarchies. Level of effort seems similar.

Beyond that, I'd suggest that you already know how to operate taxonomically: if you use Google or any other search engine, it's pretty similar, mentally. Or just describing objects in your world of discourse. Mind, that's with or without tags, as you can filter on either tags or text in a note: you add tags or text terms to filter your note database down to a smaller set of results. But getting used to thinking that way with respect to the world of computing seems to be a hurdle (even though I guess we overcame it somewhat when we kicked the Yahoo approach to the curb after Google appeared).

Don't know what to tell you otherwise. It doesn't look as though Evernote is going to change its mind on nested notebooks any time soon, if at all. I find it to be a great tool regardless, but it's certainly understandable that some folks may not be able to do without notebook hierarchies. Good luck...

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I have a bunch of notebooks I'd like to throw into a single notebook/folder type thing. 

 

A good example would be having a very large project being broken down into multiple steps, and then those steps could still be large enough to create clutter. Having a single notebook to click into would be very orderly for at least some people(I hope I'm not the only one!)

 

Think inception; a dream within a dream within a dream. 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

The way my brain creates the logic for Evernote is by Notebooks, and creating notebooks within notebooks, as sub-folders is something I've wanted for a long time. It seems maybe there was nestable notebooks once upon a time??  It would be fantastic as a Realtor to have the following hierarchy available to me:

REAL ESTATE (Top level stack name)

CLIENTS

Client_name

Purchase Address

Contracts

Correspondence

Disclosures

Inspection Reports

Title/Escrow

 

As you can see, this method requires the ability to have nesting notebooks. Pleeeeeaaaase??????

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
51 minutes ago, Lisa Hines said:

It seems maybe there was nestable notebooks once upon a time

Not in the 8 years since I've been using Evernote, somewhere near the time of the original post in this topic. Look for posts by user 'engberg', he was CTO of Evernote at the time.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
2 hours ago, Lisa Hines said:

It would be fantastic as a Realtor to have the following hierarchy available to me:

REAL ESTATE (Top level stack name)

CLIENTS

Client_name

Purchase Address

Contracts

Correspondence

Disclosures

Inspection Reports

Title/Escrow

 

As you can see, this method requires the ability to have nesting notebooks.

I agree with you, this is a perfect use case for "nested notebooks", or as some call them "sub-notebooks".

Unfortunately, the prospects of Evernote providing this do not look good, since this has been requested many, many, times, for many years, by many, many users; and still Evernote fails to provide this highly requested feature.

If you really want to use Evernote for your use case, the only workaround I know of is to use tags, which can be setup in a hierarchical order, like nested notebooks.  When tags are used like this, I call them "pseudo notebooks".  I have actually used tags like this, and, while not perfect, it does work well.  For more info see:

Using Tags as Pseudo Notebooks 

You would have to make some adjustments, since each tag name must be unique, and cannot be duplicated just because it has a different parent tag.  If you'd like to discuss further, feel free to ask any follow-on questions, and I'll try to answer.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
10 hours ago, Lisa Hines said:

As you can see, this method requires the ability to have nesting notebooks. Pleeeeeaaaase??????

Actually I don't see that as a requirement (I obviously know nothing about the Realtor bus)
- I'd want to use Evernote, and could make it work with tags

Maybe Client/Address as a Notebook 

I'm not even sure the other items need a separate Notebook/Tag
- Is there a point in having Contract as a separate notebook?
  Maybe a tag if you need to retrieve all contracts
- I'd probably just prefix the note title with Contract, Correspondence, .....

So, I would use

Notebook: Client xxxxxx Address xxxx
Note Title: Contract yyyymmdd xxxxxxxxxx
Note Title: Correspondence yyyymmdd xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Note Title: Correspondence yyyymmdd xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Note Title: Correspondence yyyymmdd xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Note Title: Disclosure yyyymmdd
....

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I'd do the same thing with 'smart' titles - my format for both inbound and outbound documentation is:  <date> - <type> - <client> - <keywords> where:

  • <date>         = the incoming or outbound date (not the scanned or saved date which might be different)
  • <type>         = letter / receipt / invoice / brochure / clipping / email / etc
  • <client>       = who?
  • <keywords> = anything else which might help me find this item

So an 'intitle' search for date will find all transactions last Tuesday,  or everything for Client Mr Jones,  or all incoming emails from him last week...

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
12 hours ago, Lisa Hines said:

REAL ESTATE (Top level stack name)

CLIENTS

Client_name

Purchase Address

Contracts

Correspondence

Disclosures

Inspection Reports

Title/Escrow

Not being in the Real Estate business (but having moved twice in the past five years = 2 buys and 2 sells, using the same broker :)), I'd aim to map this into Evernote something like the following:

REAL ESTATE : A notebook containing all current real estate related notes.

Each CLIENT is represented by a single master note that contains contact information plus a list of note links to relevant other notes. Tag with "Client" (so you can see a list of all of your current clients). The idea here is that the Client master note is the map to all relevant information and documents for that client. I'd also recommend having a tag for each client, so you can tag all relevant notes and be able to display them all quickly.

Each Purchase Address (Property?) is represented by a single master note that contains relevant information about the property: address, MLS listing #/web link, etc. Should also have information about the property's status (Available, Under Contract, Sold, etc -- these could be tags)  This assumes that you might have multiple clients interested in the same property. Tag with "Property" (so you can see a list of all of your current properties). Note title should probably contain address information. The idea here is that the Client master note is the map to all relevant information and documents for that property. 

Contracts: relevant contract information: PDF copy, status ("waiting for signature", "signed", etc.). Tag with "Contract". Note title should contain Client name and Contract title, at least. Relevant Client master not should link to this, possibly also relevant Property master note.

Correspondence: Copies of correspondence (ail, email, SMS messages, etc.) with various parties (clients, contractors, owners). Tag with "Correspondence" Relevant Client master not should link to this, possibly also relevant Property master note.

Disclosures, Inspection Reports, Title/Escrow: similar to Contracts and Correspondence above.

Other stuff:

I'm assuming that you have a roster of other businesses that do inspections, contracting, title search, etc.; those would seem to be ripe for inclusion in your system as well. Also, other documents you maintain (boiler-plate documents, checklists, information about your business, contact information for other brokers, etc...)

Also, you might want to have separate notebooks to keep old clients and old properties (or maybe one Archive notebook), so they're still available (I'm sure that you get repeat business, right? :) ), but out of the way of your current set of clients and properties in your active notebook.

You should probably have well-defined formats for certain items like clients and properties; you'd probably want to have note templates for these to make it easier to add new clients and properties.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
5 hours ago, gazumped said:

I'd do the same thing with 'smart' titles - my format for both inbound and outbound documentation is:  <date> - <type> - <client> - <keywords> where:  ,,,

I'm just wondering about having <date> as the first entry in the title
This will allow you to sort your notes into data sequence, but you already have the create/update sequence
My preference is to have a keyword as the first entry
- this gives the option of having a third sort sequence

The trick is to chose the correct keyword
In the above example, Contract/../Escrow seemed a logical choice

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I can only fall back on - it works for me.  In my constant striving to be the world's laziest person I tend to grow a pile of work to be scanned,  which gets processed when it gets done.  Unhelpfully the documents don't pile up in date-of-receipt order - and they get messed up from time to time when I have to search for something;  so they're scanned in pretty random order.  (That reads a lot messier and more casual than it actually is...;))

The created date records the scanned date and I add the actual date of the document - which like a receipt I found a few days ago might be from weeks months or years in the past.  My four title elements are interchangeable though - if a keyword works better...

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
4 hours ago, jefito said:

Does it add anything to the 800+ posts in the current topic?

Probably not, but maybe someone wants to make a research about this issue and publish a doctor thesis regarding this request ;)

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
16 hours ago, CreativeSoul said:

Probably not, but maybe someone wants to make a research about this issue and publish a doctor thesis regarding this request ;)

Not particularly thesis worthy. This is just ordinary software development stuff. Company has one vision, users have another. Free market decides.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On 3.12.2016 at 3:29 PM, jefito said:

Not particularly thesis worthy. This is just ordinary software development stuff. Company has one vision, users have another. Free market decides.

The thesis was more an ironic joke. I agree with the mostly different vision of the company and the users, but this company has a discussion forum, so I assume that they are interested in the opinion of their users. Only this topic is 35 pages long, more then 8 years old and its still being discussed. Let the people discuss, maybe the EN Team wants to stop this discussion, by "just" introducing the future. But maybe I could write a poem about the pain I am going through being a premium user for more then 2 years and not being able to have subfolders in Evernote.

Here are spontaneous song lyrics about my wish to have subfolders in Evernote:

 

"The Elephant is green, 

I am looking at my screen,

I am getting older,

but still no subfolder,

This topic is 35 pages long,

i am writing this song,

about my desire, 

to have a subfolder empire.

But I will hold on,

keep writing on,

for the Evernote Staff

so they work on this stuff."

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...