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Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks


cswsteve

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I think Evernote is a fantastic product, especially with the iPhone integration. I currently use a program called UltraRecall because of it's heavy use of subfolders. This makes organizing my data ve

I don't understand why after almost 10 years this has not been implemented yet. Also, I don't understand why workarounds such as tags are considered a good solution. Is it that complicated to add

To all Guru's that keep saying the same thing about being able to do the same thing with tag. This maybe so but is not the point.  Clearly for at least the last 9 Years people have been asking fo

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On 12/24/2018 at 11:42 AM, gazumped said:

Slight typo I think - maximum tags is 100,000...

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/209005247

No typo; I was just relying on (faulty) memory. Thanks for the correction. :) 

Even so, 10,000 tags is a lot to manage. My count is much lower, an order of magnitude or more. But the higher count does bolster the point I was making, I suppose...

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7 hours ago, jefito said:

Even so, 10,000 tags is a lot to manage.

Totally agree - I topped out at just over 1,000 tags with lots of duplications and typos.  As I frequently mention,  I then re-thought tags and went on to 'smart' titles - the note date / type / source / keyword(s) - which is how my primary indexing now works. 

Tags are a curation afterthought - an easy way to include or exclude notes from search results,  because adding a tag is quicker than editing the title. 

Having 100,000 tags would be a nightmare for me to manage - but maybe somewhere,  somehow,  there's a system for doing that.  Certainly means you can hierarchify (new word for the Holidays) tags to your hearts content and (probably) never run out...  ☺️

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5 hours ago, gazumped said:

I then re-thought tags and went on to 'smart' titles - the note date / type / source / keyword(s) - which is how my primary indexing now works.

I'm at 400 tags; minimal notebooks.
Likewise, I also use the same tags as keywords, within the title and note contents.  I use scripting (Mac) so I'm working from a controlled list.

I still make use of the hierarchy; it's useful for organization.  Since the hierarchy isn't always available, I also parallel the hierarchy in the tagname.

My purpose for the tag/keyword parallel is

  1. Backup; I maintain an html export.  There is no tag metadata database.
  2. Search; Tags retrieve the note; keywords are highlighted in the note contents. 
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5 hours ago, gazumped said:

...

Tags are a curation afterthought - an easy way to include or exclude notes from search results,  because adding a tag is quicker than editing the title. 

...

I have been hunting through this thread and the suggestions linked to from it on-and-off for a year or so, hoping to find out how I can use tags to get the shelf/notebook/section/page hierarchy that I need.  It seems to me that those espousing tags as doing everything that can be needed are focussing on *search* rather than *browse* capability.  That's fine if I want to search for a page with a particular comment on it, but less useful if what I want to do is read sequentially through a set of notes - for example, if I want to revisit my notes from part of a project or a course I was working on a while ago.

The model in my head of what I want is to have:

  1. SHELF - Shelves (or "stacks" in EN terminology) corresponding to, for example, "Professional Development", "Projects", "Domestic", and so on
  2. NOTEBOOK - Within shelves (stacks), notebooks corresponding to, for example", particular professional development courses I have taken, projects I have worked on, etc.
  3. SECTION - Within a notebook, I want sections for the parts of the course - for  example, in a notebook for a Machine Learning course, I might have sections of Introduction, Linear Regression 1V, Linear Regression MV, Logistic Regression, Regularisation, etc
  4. NOTE - Within each section I want to put my actual notes, with a logical order

So, if I want to refresh myself on Logistic Regression, I go to the "Professional Development" shelf, take the "Stanford Machine Learning 2014/15" notebook, turn to the "Logistic Regression" section, and read through the notes there in sequence. 

I am unclear how to use the EN tag hierarchy to do that.  I have tried various ways, but I end up having to do messy clumsy things of going via a search form, having to remember tags I used these things when I saved them, and then trying to guess what order to look at the search results in to get the logical order that part of the course happened in.  It seems to me that it is easy an obvious how to browse to things in hierarchical storage metaphor, but that tagging and searching doesn't fit this particular access need.

(Don't get me wrong - tags are great, and I can use tags to meet subsidiary *search* requirements I have, but I can't make it fit well to this more common access need I have).

Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here, and how to get what I want using tags?

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10 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

So, if I want to refresh myself on Logistic Regression, I go to the "Professional Development" shelf, take the "Stanford Machine Learning 2014/15" notebook, turn to the "Logistic Regression" section, and read through the notes there in sequence. 

I am unclear how to use the EN tag hierarchy to do that.

I would recommend making an individual note for each topic. 

Professional Development (Stack)

> Stanford Machine Learning (Notebook)

>> Logistic Regression (Note)

 

This is how I have my "library" stack set up. I have a notebook for each book, an individual note for each chapter.

Library

> Book Title

>> Chapter 1: The beginning

 

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27 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

focussing on *search* rather than *browse* capability.  That's fine if I want to search for a page with a particular comment on it, but less useful if what I want to do is read sequentially through a set of notes - for example, if I want to revisit my notes from part of a project or a course I was working on a while ago.

Evernote is more focused on search, however you can use the notebook/tag trees for browsing376970676_ScreenShot2018-12-26at15_05_40.png.2463583a003de7fd6f13f70710194de9.png.98b592212217bf31661e7b3d073247ce.png
The attached is a screenshot from my Mac

The notebook tree is similar, but with only two levels

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

Evernote is more focused on search, however you can use the notebook/tag trees for browsing376970676_ScreenShot2018-12-26at15_05_40.png.2463583a003de7fd6f13f70710194de9.png.98b592212217bf31661e7b3d073247ce.png
The attached is a screenshot from my Mac

The notebook tree is similar, but with only two levels

My biggest (and only) issue with using tags instead of folders for hierarchical organization is that tags are not well supported on mobile (iOS), which I use heavily.  In particular, the hierarchy is missing completely (it's flattened out).

Other than that, folders vs tags is more or less cosmetic, and I couldn't care less.

So, here's me, writing this comment, and hoping that someone from Evernote reads it and acts on it, however unlikely that may be.

 

 

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7 hours ago, phault said:

tags are not well supported on mobile (iOS), which I use heavily.  In particular, the hierarchy is missing completely

Confirmed; the tag hierarchy is not displayed in IOS.  The hierachy is also missing on some of the Mac pages. 

To compensate, I use a naming standard that parallels the hierarchy, for example "Budget - Home - Rent", "Budget - Home - Insurance"

>>using tags instead of folders

Folders are not supported in Evernote; the choice is Notebooks or Tags

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54 minutes ago, phault said:

My biggest (and only) issue with using tags instead of folders for hierarchical organization is that tags are not well supported on mobile (iOS), which I use heavily.  In particular, the hierarchy is missing completely (it's flattened out).

Curiously, it *is* supported on Android. Why it's not is a mystery. You should go to the iOS feature request forum (here: https://discussion.evernote.com/forum/215-evernote-for-ios/), find an existing request for this feature (there's at least one), and add your vote there, since your request concerns nested tags on iOS, rather than nested notebooks.

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On 12/27/2018 at 10:18 AM, D-Nick said:

The model in my head of what I want is to have:

  1. SHELF - Shelves (or "stacks" in EN terminology) corresponding to, for example, "Professional Development", "Projects", "Domestic", and so on
  2. NOTEBOOK - Within shelves (stacks), notebooks corresponding to, for example", particular professional development courses I have taken, projects I have worked on, etc.
  3. SECTION - Within a notebook, I want sections for the parts of the course - for  example, in a notebook for a Machine Learning course, I might have sections of Introduction, Linear Regression 1V, Linear Regression MV, Logistic Regression, Regularisation, etc
  4. NOTE - Within each section I want to put my actual notes, with a logical order
  1. Shelf = Stack = Professional Development
  2. Notebook = Notebook or Tag = NameOfCourse
  3. Section = Tag = Introduction
  4. Note =Note = yyyy_mm_dd Note title

So either a notebook:NameOfCourse tag:Introduction or tag:NameOfCourse tag:Introduction search will return the set of notes which can be displayed in title sequence or created date sequence if that is how the notes were entered.  If you can use created date not necessary to have date in the note title. Caps in naming just for emphasis.  I would opt for tags versus notebook for NameOfCourse, more flexibility in the EN architecture in my view.

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On 12/27/2018 at 4:30 AM, gazumped said:

Totally agree - I topped out at just over 1,000 tags with lots of duplications and typos.  As I frequently mention,  I then re-thought tags and went on to 'smart' titles - the note date / type / source / keyword(s) - which is how my primary indexing now works. 

Tags are a curation afterthought - an easy way to include or exclude notes from search results,  because adding a tag is quicker than editing the title. 

I've stuck with tags.  Don't add many anymore (trips or new projects) and just too lazy for the extra typing in the note title.  Horses for courses, but all that stuff in the title just isn't feng shui for me.

Definitely, main purpose of tags for me is to get to a workable list to find the note I want.  When all else fails, there is always raw text search.  

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On 1/4/2019 at 4:58 PM, BushWacker_x81 said:

Evernote needs to add this feature. 

You should join the chorus of folks who've already asked for this here (from the General Feature Requests subforum): 

Add your upvote at the top of the topic, and your own discussion if you desire, though it's been discussed pretty thoroughly already.

Some folks just use other methods of organization...

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On 1/4/2019 at 1:58 PM, BushWacker_x81 said:

It's so bad that a product based solely on organizing notes can't do more than one layer of embedded notebooks.  

Evernote offers two fields for organizing notes; Notebooks and Tags

Tags are the primary organization tool, and support an unlimited hierarchy.

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It occurred to me a couple of weeks ago,  that Evernote companion app Filterize nicely fills this gap in Evernote's architecture - it's possible to create multiple self-updating Tables of Contents for a client,  a customer,  a product or any general class of note that you may have. 

Put general notes in one notebook,  and a set of ToC notes in another,  and you can browse through your ToC "drawer" to find all your current clients listed in one note - even if you added one 5 minutes ago. 

Click on that client's link in the ToC to see a note listing your entire contact history and all the current projects you have in hand and quoted for.  It's a set of virtual folders as individual ToC notes.

Filterize also answers any problems with saved searches and favorites - your ToC notes are searches that are running constantly;  so 'next tasks' and open to-do items are also ToC notes.

Still getting around to setting this up for myself,  but it should work...

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16 hours ago, mikefinleyco said:

look at how tags have been a poor man's workaround for 10 years with users continually requesting nested notebook tree structure.

I  use both notebooks and tags; and use the tag tree structure
Please explain the difference between a tag tree structure, vs a notebook tree structure.
Why the "poor man's workaround" designation?  The term seems more appropriate to the Notebook/Stacks structure. 

>>export the majority of my data to archive it, but it sure sucks to have to recreate note books everytime you import data back into evernote. 

Not clear on your exact usercase but separate exports per notebook will preserve the notebook info. 

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On 1/21/2019 at 9:34 PM, gazumped said:

It occurred to me a couple of weeks ago,  that Evernote companion app Filterize nicely fills this gap in Evernote's architecture - it's possible to create multiple self-updating Tables of Contents for a client,  a customer,  a product or any general class of note that you may have. 

Put general notes in one notebook,  and a set of ToC notes in another,  and you can browse through your ToC "drawer" to find all your current clients listed in one note - even if you added one 5 minutes ago. 

Click on that client's link in the ToC to see a note listing your entire contact history and all the current projects you have in hand and quoted for.  It's a set of virtual folders as individual ToC notes.

Filterize also answers any problems with saved searches and favorites - your ToC notes are searches that are running constantly;  so 'next tasks' and open to-do items are also ToC notes.

Still getting around to setting this up for myself,  but it should work...

With Filterize you can also combine multiple tables of contents into one note. So you can build a dashboard with all your todos or important notes. If you have any trouble with the setup feel free to contact us. It's a pleasure for us to help you.

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I've started to work on this feature - 

6 hours ago, Pascal Held said:

combine multiple tables of contents into one note.

- and while the basics are easy(ish) to set up,  I need to get my head around some hierarchies.  My vision was to have a 'grandparent' note that would list parent notes for projects / to-dos / contacts etc,  that would list their own child notes for individual tasks and actions.  Working towards that means a lot of tagging,  and/ or testing of reliable searches for specific keywords - something I wish I'd done before having 45k notes to work with!  Still,  my note 'entropy' is actually declining into a somewhat better order as a result.  I think...

 

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53 minutes ago, gazumped said:

My vision was to have a 'grandparent' note that would list parent notes for projects / to-dos / contacts etc,  that would list their own child notes for individual tasks and actions.

We've gone off topic, but here's my implementation of a grandparent ToC and drilling down887882753_ScreenShot2019-01-25at08_12_12.png.d4166e315a3fb5e3057e83e1e532ce64.png

My "grandparent" note is my daily journal; I set this up each morning from a template
An example is a section for Active Projects
This is a simple search but I'm interested in automatic updates as per Filterize
For now, i just use the search, and drag the links under the heading

To drill down; I click on the note and then use the Flter-By-Tag feature
1240657919_ScreenShot2019-01-25at08_16_02.png.c9691d4a92c9bed269b8c714a91c9cfd.png

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I use Evernote (premium) to organize/document my work, meeting notes, todos, task progress and so on. I find it limiting that you can stack notebooks only one level. If infinite notebook stacking will not be available in the near future I will go with another solution. 

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6 hours ago, spikebogdan said:

I find it limiting that you can stack notebooks only one level. If infinite notebook stacking will not be available in the near future I will go with another solution. 

Welcome to the discussion.

Notebooks have their purposes but there's no indication of plans for infinite notebook stacking.
For infinite hierarchy, use the Tag feature on the Windows/Mac platforms.

There is a feature request posted at the top of the discussion. To indicate your support, use the voting buttons at the top left corner of the discussion.

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6 hours ago, Ariadx said:

We need this, Its very important to organize notes.  

Welcome to the discussion.

There is a request posted at the top of the discussions; you can indicate your support using the voting buttons at the top left corner of the discussion.

Notebooks have their purpose, but Evernote's primary note organization tool is the Tags feature.

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19 hours ago, TonyMontanaSlot said:

Yes, please. I need this feature too. It should be very simple to implement, why not to give just one more option to your users?

Welcome to the discussion.

There is a request posted at the top of the discussions; you can indicate your support using the voting buttons at the top left corner of the discussion.

I question your estimate of "simple to implement".  This would require a major overhaul of the database structure, and the UI of each app.

It's not clear as to your "need".  Evernote supplies user with an infinite hierarchy via the Tag feature.

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14 hours ago, Flier said:

... must approve your need or it does not exist...

Approval is irrelevant; I'm interested in hearing more details of @TonyMontanaSlot's needs.  With more information, we may be able to identify a solution.

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On 2/2/2019 at 5:23 AM, DTLow said:

Welcome to the discussion.

There is a request posted at the top of the discussions; you can indicate your support using the voting buttons at the top left corner of the discussion.

I question your estimate of "simple to implement".  This would require a major overhaul of the database structure, and the UI of each app.

It's not clear as to your "need".  Evernote supplies user with an infinite hierarchy via the Tag feature.

Nah, that shouldn't be difficult at all if that stack -> notebook hierarchy was implemented in an optimal way in the first place. I have a degree in computer science and had been working with SQL databases from 2010 to 2014. I don't remember any significant difference difficulty-wise in implementing 2-level vs XX-level parent-child hierarchy. The UI changes also shouldn't be all that difficult to implement. Of course, doing that will require some work, but hey, you gotta work for your money.

Now, if there are so many people have been requesting this feature for so long, there must be reasons that are valid enough and you should at least consider hearing them out and maybe even participate in a discussion, come out and tell them why this feature is not worth implementing. Maybe it breaks the core principles of Evernote mission (although I'm not sure how, lol).

Now, you're asking why am I requesting this feature. I will tell you. No, my world won't fall apart if it never gets implemented. You see, I just don't like to be dependent on tags too much because they're just not notebooks. Every note can be tagged with many tags but only can belong to one notebook, so it's a more solid structure already. Of course, you might say that it's my problem that I won't stick to just 1 tag per note. But it's kinda limiting. Maybe I want to tag a note with "Summer", "Love" and "Sad" tags but at the same time I want it to be exactly in this Hobbies -> Art -> Music -> Songwriting -> My solo stuff -> Second album hierarchy. Of course, you can always find a thousand of counter-arguments to that, like "you can do basically the same with tags, blah blah blah", but no, it's not the same, even if you can achieve similar results with tags.

I'd say just give it a shot and give your users a little bit more freedom.

Sorry, it's really late and I'm not an expert in English. I don't really care about being right and continue arguing beyond this message. I just said what I wanted to say, even if it sounded like a complete BS to you guys. I spoke from my heart :D

EDIT: Yeah, maybe convert those stacks to notebooks so that even the root object would be able to hold the notes in it. As well as notebooks. Basically what I'm suggesting is a folder-file approach, just like in Windows Explorer. We all know that notebooks in real life don't hold "sub-notebooks" in them but maybe make a poll and see if users would like this approach and you could get away with this concept. I'm not gonna suggest renaming notebooks to folders and files altogether as that will obviously make the brand name "Evernote" irrelevant :D

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28 minutes ago, TonyMontanaSlot said:

I don't really care about being right and continue arguing beyond this message.

OK.  Your comments duly noted - thanks for giving a more reasoned explanation.  It's certainly OK to wish for this option,  but the fact is that Evernote don't provide sub-notebooks at this moment,  and haven't shown any sign of wishing to do so in future.  None of us knows what they actually plan to develop however,  so all opinions so far are just guesses.  We'll just have to wait and see.  Meantime it is possible to stumble along using tags,  titles and searches.

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On 2/3/2019 at 5:59 AM, TonyMontanaSlot said:

Nah, that shouldn't be difficult at all if that stack -> notebook hierarchy was implemented in an optimal way in the first place.

Right, as a hierarchy, the stack>notebook implementation seems a hack; a text field in the notebook record.

I'm guessing it made for an easier UI update.  
The notebook hierarchy was rolled out to each platform; tag hierarchy is still not available on some platforms.

>>Of course, doing that will require some work, but hey, you gotta work for your money.

As to money; the majority of users are unwilling to pay.
I see you have a non-paying account.

>>I just don't like to be dependent on tags too much because they're just not notebooks.

Basically the same; two fields in the note's metadata.
I'm not concerned with the fieldname; just the restrictions with the field use.

>>Every note can be tagged with many tags but only can belong to one notebook

My primary reason for selecting which field to use.  
The majority of my notes fit multiple categories.

>>Basically what I'm suggesting is a folder-file approach, just like in Windows Explorer.

You are definitely looking at the wrong product.  
From the beginning, Evernote has rejected the folder filing methodology (speaking of "core principles of Evernote mission")

Some users simulate a folder-file approach using the notebook/tag trees in the sidebar.

edit; And I am specifically welcoming  @Shellah to respond to any posts they wish to comment on.

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21 hours ago, JoelArt said:

Last I checked this doesn't work on iPhones. So this is a non valid solution.

Confirmed; the hierarchy is not accessible on some platforms (like IOS).  
It can be accessed on Evernote/Mac, but only on specific panels.

Most of the time we're using lists in alpha sequence.

A request discussion for IOS hierarchy is here

>>Also, there is no reason not to support both hierarchical folders and tags

Evernote currently has no support  for folder elelements
For note organization we only have Tags and Notebooks

Actually I don't care what the name is; I can work with anything.
Do we need two/three hierarchies?

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On 12/29/2018 at 12:31 PM, BakaGoy said:

For anyone still really wanting this feature and not wanting to use OneNote - NimbusNotes is an excellent alternative, with support for all major platforms.

Wow, dude, thank you so much. Already trying it out. It seems like these geniuses abandoned the concept of notebooks altogether and just named them "folders". Simple solution.

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On 2/3/2019 at 1:32 PM, bpang33 said:

exactly what we're all asking for here.

Which part of "Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks" are you failing to understand.

6 hours ago, TonyMontanaSlot said:

Wow It seems like these geniuses abandoned the concept of notebooks altogether and just named them "folders". Simple solution.

A concept Evernote could use? Change the name "tags" to "folders".  Simple solution.

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Googling for this question brought me here and I've had a very entertaining half hour reading through the waging holy wars on both sides. I gave up on Evernote 5-6 years ago after dramatic price changes made me feel like my notes were in constant jeopardy due to an inconsistent pricing model. Now I'm learning that a heavily requested and common sense feature is ignored by Evernote for over a decade with the suggestion that you rethink your entire organizational scheme with tags. 

I'm not here to debate the merits of hierarchical folders vs tags. I'd just like to say for a company that advertises itself as your personal knowledge library, it's an odd decision to dictate the terms of how you should organize that library. Especially when it's such a dramatic departure from our normal approaches to information management. 

Thank you everyone for your participation and contributions here, you helped me make the decision to move off EV Premium. I don't harbor any resentment against EV, but they've made it clear that they did not design this tool for users like me so I'm headed back to OneNote. Maybe I'll check back again in a few years. 

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On 12/27/2018 at 5:44 PM, DTLow said:

Evernote is more focused on search, however you can use the notebook/tag trees for browsing376970676_ScreenShot2018-12-26at15_05_40.png.2463583a003de7fd6f13f70710194de9.png.98b592212217bf31661e7b3d073247ce.png
The attached is a screenshot from my Mac

The notebook tree is similar, but with only two levels

I have no idea how I would create a browseable hierarchy doing that.  Where's the best place to find instructions for how that works?

A hierarchy of notebooks/sections etc is intuitive to me, but this is not, so I need to find instructions.

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On 12/28/2018 at 5:11 PM, CalS said:
  1. Shelf = Stack = Professional Development
  2. Notebook = Notebook or Tag = NameOfCourse
  3. Section = Tag = Introduction
  4. Note =Note = yyyy_mm_dd Note title

So either a notebook:NameOfCourse tag:Introduction or tag:NameOfCourse tag:Introduction search will return the set of notes which can be displayed in title sequence or created date sequence if that is how the notes were entered.  If you can use created date not necessary to have date in the note title. Caps in naming just for emphasis.  I would opt for tags versus notebook for NameOfCourse, more flexibility in the EN architecture in my view.

That seems really confusing to me - are you saying I would have to type in those long red texts somewhere just to be able to navigate to the part of a notebook that I want to read?  That seems a lot more complicatred - more typing and a heavier memory load - than just be able to see and expand folders.

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On 12/27/2018 at 5:33 PM, Kruger2147 said:

I would recommend making an individual note for each topic. 

Professional Development (Stack)

> Stanford Machine Learning (Notebook)

>> Logistic Regression (Note)

 

This is how I have my "library" stack set up. I have a notebook for each book, an individual note for each chapter.

Library

> Book Title

>> Chapter 1: The beginning

 

Thanks for the suggestions.  That makes the notes (=sections) quite a lot bigger than I would like them to be (courses typically have a collection of different items within a section, such a lecture notes, my own reading, exercises, etc), but if this is the only way it can work, at least it *can* work and be brwseable, unlike these really complicated and enthusdiast-only tagging techniques.

So, are you not using tags at all?  Or just using them for secondary searching?

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18 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

Thanks for the suggestions.  That makes the notes (=sections) quite a lot bigger than I would like them to be (courses typically have a collection of different items within a section, such a lecture notes, my own reading, exercises, etc), but if this is the only way it can work, at least it *can* work and be brwseable, unlike these really complicated and enthusdiast-only tagging techniques.

So, are you not using tags at all?  Or just using them for secondary searching?

Arrrggghh ... just tried, and this still doesn't work for me, because I need a further level of hierarchy I'd not realised until now.

Many of my professional development courses are grouped together into what some providers call "specialisations" and others call "programmes" - a sequence of courses that follow on from each other, and lead towards an end ("capstone") project that pulls it all together.  So, my hiearchy of notebooks needs to look like this (just some parts of the tree are expanded)

...
Ancient Scripts Project
   ...
Professional Development
   UCSD Big Data Specialisation
      Course 01 Introduction to Big Data
         ...
      Course 02 Hadoop
         a) Hadoop Basics 
            i) Hadoop Stack Basics
            ii) Apache Framework Modules
            iii) HDFS
            iv) The Hadoop Zoo
            v) Hadoop Ecosystem
            vi) Cloudera Distribution hands-on
            Module Readings
            Exercise
         b) Hadoop Stack Details
            i) HDFS & HDFS2
            ii) MapReduce Framework & YARN
            iii) Hadoop Execution Environment
            ....
         c) HDFS Details
           ...
         d) Map/Reduce Details
      Course 3: ...
         ...
      Course 4: ...
         ...

and so on.  I make that 5 levels of hierarchy of folders or shelves, or stacks or sections or whatever we want to call them, assuming I can make the sections that start with small Roman numerals into notes, although they would be fairly lengthy (several pages each), I think.

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3 hours ago, JD Santos said:

Googling for this question brought me here and I've had a very entertaining half hour reading through the waging holy wars on both sides.

Any "holy war" is really exacerbated by those who want to make Evernote into something it's not, and maybe to a lesser extent by people who don't want Evernote to become something different from what it is. It's Evernote's product; they can make it into what their vision requires; we can choose to use it, or not. Suggestions are of course fine, but calling Evernote names -- and there's a lot of that, but I'm not saying that you are, btw -- over the lack of support for that seems pointless to me. I find tags and a flat notebook structure to be fine for my organizational purposes. You may not. There's no holy war there, just a determination of appropriateness of a tool to one's desired usage.There are plenty of tools out there; if OneNote serves your purposes, then that's great, and as it should be. The middle ground is where people want to use Evernote (for whatever reason), but don't really understand tagging, so are at a loss as to how to use Evernote effectively. There are folks here who are willing to try to coach their uses, without arguing the merits of each system (which has been pretty much done to death already). In any case, if OneNote works for you, then congratulations -- we all deserve tools that work well for our needs.

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1 hour ago, D-Nick said:

I have no idea how I would create a browseable hierarchy doing that.  Where's the best place to find instructions for how that works?

A hierarchy of notebooks/sections etc is intuitive to me, but this is not, so I need to find instructions.

The tag hierarchy is a Windows/Mac feature.1581769767_ScreenShot2019-02-05at13_24_16.png.eada1f4abbdc7ebd7e194efa818669cd.png

On a Mac, you work in the Tags page
As you can see in the screenshot, there's a button for creating new tags.

This creates a flat list.
For a hierarchy, click on a tag and drag it to another tag.
This is a similar process to notebooks but with an infinite hierarchy

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4 minutes ago, DTLow said:

The tag hierarchy is a Windows/Mac feature.1581769767_ScreenShot2019-02-05at13_24_16.png.eada1f4abbdc7ebd7e194efa818669cd.png

On a Mac, you work in the Tags page
As you can see in the screenshot, there's a button for creating new tags.

This creates a flat list.
For a hierarchy, click on a tag and drag it to another tag.
This is a similar process to notebooks but with an infinite hierarchy

 

 

 

 

I am using on Windows, and I don't see anything that looks like that at all.  Is this tags hierarchy maybe just for Mac users?

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5 hours ago, JD Santos said:

I'm not here to debate the merits of hierarchical folders vs tags.

"Notebooks vs tags" would be a different discussion, and "folders" another discussion.
I use both notebooks and tags.

Hierarchy is a useful feature for organizing notebooks and tags.
Evernote only supports two levels for notebooks; hense the feature request at the top of the discussion.
Infinite hierarchy is supported for tags (Windows/Mac)

 

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1 hour ago, D-Nick said:

That seems really confusing to me - are you saying I would have to type in those long red texts somewhere just to be able to navigate to the part of a notebook that I want to read?  That seems a lot more complicatred - more typing and a heavier memory load - than just be able to see and expand folders.

Square peg and round hole comes to mind here.  You asked for a way to use EN with your hierarchical strategy, that is what I proffered.  Basically you would select a notebook/stack and then use tags.  🤷‍♂️

Not being tied to hierarchies I would set it up with tags for all of your breakouts and put all the notes in my main notebook.  Simple searches would get me what I needed.  But then that is why the notebook/tag holy war rages on....  ;)   As I've said many times before, no issue at all with EN adding layers of notebooks for them that want them  I probably wouldn't use them.

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2 minutes ago, CalS said:

Square peg and round hole comes to mind here.  You asked for a way to use EN with your hierarchical strategy, that is what I proffered.  Basically you would select a notebook/stack and then use tags.  🤷‍♂️

Not being tied to hierarchies I would set it up with tags for all of your breakouts and put all the notes in my main notebook.  Simple searches would get me what I needed.  But then that is why the notebook/tag holy war rages on....  ;)   As I've said many times before, no issue at all with EN adding layers of notebooks for them that want them  I probably wouldn't use them.

I am not following what you are saying at all.  What is the square peg and what the round hole - are you now saying that Evernote can't do what I need it to do?

Could you say some more about "Basically you would select a notebook/stack and then use tags.  🤷‍♂️" means, please?  Use tags how?

You also say "Simple searches would get me what I needed " - could you explain for someone still pretty unfamiliar (even after several years as a paid subscriber) of how Evernote works how I can use "simple searches" to browse?  I looked for "simple searches" in such documentation as I can find for Evernote, and I couldn't find a function or feature called that.

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On 12/27/2018 at 10:18 AM, D-Nick said:
  • SHELF - Shelves (or "stacks" in EN terminology) corresponding to, for example, "Professional Development", "Projects", "Domestic", and so on
  • NOTEBOOK - Within shelves (stacks), notebooks corresponding to, for example", particular professional development courses I have taken, projects I have worked on, etc.
  • SECTION - Within a notebook, I want sections for the parts of the course - for  example, in a notebook for a Machine Learning course, I might have sections of Introduction, Linear Regression 1V, Linear Regression MV, Logistic Regression, Regularisation, etc
  • NOTE - Within each section I want to put my actual notes, with a logical order
26 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

I am not following what you are saying at all.  What is the square peg and what the round hole - are you now saying that Evernote can't do what I need it to do?

Could you say some more about "Basically you would select a notebook/stack and then use tags.  🤷‍♂️" means, please?  Use tags how?

You also say "Simple searches would get me what I needed " - could you explain for someone still pretty unfamiliar (even after several years as a paid subscriber) of how Evernote works how I can use "simple searches" to browse?  I looked for "simple searches" in such documentation as I can find for Evernote, and I couldn't find a function or feature called that.

Square peg in a round hole, wanting EN to perform as a deeply nested folder structure, it can't.  EN can do what you want, but not in a Windows folder metaphor.

Using tags in you parlance, applying the tags as needed to the appropriate notes:

  • Shelf tag would contain values for Professional.Development, Projects, Domestic ...  precede the tag name with !
  • Notebook tag would contain values for Courses, Projects, ....   precede the tag name with .
  • Section tag would contain values for the parts of the courses, projects... some of which might repeat   precede the tag name with _

Searches set up the browse.  A search for tag:!* sorted in tag order will return all "Shelves", "Notebooks", "Sections" notes in shelf/notebook/section order.  A search for tag:notebook.tag.name sorted in tag order will return all notes for the notebook.tag, be it course or project.  Plus other tag searches for other lists of notes.  Lists one can browse at that point.  Horses for courses.

You may want to look at the shelf and notebook breakouts in your layout, there may be some redundancy built in re projects.

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7 minutes ago, CalS said:

Searches set up the browse.  A search for tag:!* sorted in tag order will return all "Shelves", "Notebooks", "Sections" notes in shelf/notebook/section order.  A search for tag:notebook.tag.name sorted in tag order will return all notes for the notebook.tag, be it course or project.  Plus other tag searches for other lists of notes.  Lists one can browse at that point.  Horses for courses.

Thanks for the time you put into that - much appreciated.
I have read through it a few times, and am still finding it really confusing.  I need to set it aside and come back to it when I have the brainspace to work through it, which will be the weekend after next.

I think that I need to say that is quite revealing about the difference between a folder-type hierarchy for notes and Evernote-style tags - the tags are just so damned confusing and non-intuitive.  From what I can tell in what you say here, it looks like I am going to need some kind of Evernote-specific search search language to type search commands to be able to browse my hierarchy of course notes, rather than just clicking to expand a hierarchy of folders.

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On 12/28/2018 at 11:31 PM, BakaGoy said:

For anyone still really wanting this feature and not wanting to use OneNote - NimbusNotes is an excellent alternative, with support for all major platforms.

On 12/28/2018 at 11:31 PM, BakaGoy said:

For anyone still really wanting this feature and not wanting to use OneNote - NimbusNotes is an excellent alternative, with support for all major platforms.

Please keep us posted on this.  I looked at Nimbus and it seems attractive, but as we all know the best software in the world is the stuff we just bought and have not yet installed.  Nimbus claims an Evernote import function, too.  I'd be interested to hear from anyone that has tried it.  I like the Evernote concept but the lack of a folder hierarchy has kept it out of my mainstream work.  I just use it as a sort of trash can for random things that I might want to find some day.  These elaborate workarounds for its architectural deficiency have no attraction to me, no matter how many times DTlow tries to tell others what they need and what they don't need.

Related comment:  I too have been watching this thread for years.  My theory on EN's reluctance to implement nested folders is that the underlying code was written years ago with a totally different view of what the app would do.  Since then it has probably been patched, scabbed, and gumballed into what it is today and they are terrified to touch it any more than absolutely necessary.  It is unlikely that they dumb guys, but rather guys that see the certain market reward as too risky and costly to chase.  IOW they will just ride this horse into the ground as more capable applications replace it as the tools of choice.

I will be interested to see how Nimbus Notes does.  I believe that its ownership is Russian, which has its own uncertainties.  Good for them, anyway, they are not owned by Huawei.

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1 hour ago, D-Nick said:

I am using on Windows, and I don't see anything that looks like that at all.  Is this tags hierarchy maybe just for Mac users?

I'm 🍎 only.  I know the hierarchy is available but we need advice from a Windows person.

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2 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

why users should just accept Evernote as it is.

At the risk of facing further wrath from the masses; Because, it is what it  is.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself  ... Shaw

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18 minutes ago, DTLow said:

At the risk of facing further wrath from the masses; Because, it is what it  is.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself 

 

Well, "if it is what it is," then why in the world would they set up a forum to collect enhancement requests?

Your selection of a quotation to back up your position is either ignorant or duplicitous.   Either way I think it's quite funny.  Then next sentence following the one you cherry-picked is: "Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw

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On 2/5/2019 at 4:06 PM, Flier said:

why in the world would they set up a forum to collect enhancement requests?

This is a request forum and there's a request posted at the top of the discussion.  
You're welcome to indicate your support using the voting buttons at the top left corner of the discussion.

>>"Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." 

imho  there has been no progress with this request.
I'm making use of other solutions for hierarchical organization.

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself  ... Shaw

Do you really believe that?  If everyone followed that advice, then there would never be any progress -- we'd all still be living in caves.  LOL  All real breakthroughs have come because one or more people were not willing to settle for status quo.

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On 2/5/2019 at 5:33 PM, JMichaelTX said:

Do you really believe that?  If everyone followed that advice, then there would never be any progress -- we'd all still be living in caves.  LOL  All real breakthroughs have come because one or more people were not willing to settle for status quo.

In regards to using the Evernote product/service, Yes, I "really believe that".  
Living in caves is a different discussion; I'll need Wi-Fi.  LOL

Ultimately, it's Evernote's decision as to the priority for development work.  
I'm not part of the decision making; I can only provide feedback, and add my vote to feature requests I support. 

In the meantime, I learn all the features and how to make best use of them.

>>one or more people were not willing to settle for status quo.

Here's To The Crazy Ones / Think Different

Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can't do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.

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13 hours ago, Flier said:

Your selection of a quotation to back up your position is either ignorant or duplicitous.   Either way I think it's quite funny.  Then next sentence following the one you cherry-picked is: "Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw

That's a nice pickup on the complete quote, but let's not pretend that unreasonableness always leads to progress. I'd guess that the guy who thought it was a good idea to use a loaded gun as a hammer wouldn't in hindsight consider the loss of his big toe to be progress. Truth be told, the whole quotation is something I find appealing on the surface, but otherwise not particularly convincing (i.e., clever, but so what?); progress really is made by people both reasonable and unreasonable, not by unreasonable people alone. Is there progress made in collecting, cataloging and understanding some part of our world without trying to change it? I think so. On the other side, nobody doubts Einstein's genius at seeing things differently, but he wasn't a math whiz and had to have help with it, and beyond that, years and years of exhaustive experiments to validate his theories. Progress depends on both types. Somebody's gotta do the math.

But hey, all of this is just a diversion. Do you really think it's a bad thing to try to understand how Evernote works as it actually exists, and with the realization that you can't change that on your own, get on with your Evernote life? And maybe try to help others to understand what's available, and what's not, and what works for you and might work for them?

13 hours ago, Flier said:

Well, "if it is what it is," then why in the world would they set up a forum to collect enhancement requests?

Speaking of quotations, it's amusing to see a quote often associated with the most recent Super Bowl winning coach (sorry, native New Englander here, and yes, I understand that you're quoting DTLow's  original use). Really, "It is what it is" doesn't signify resignation, though, it signifies an understanding of where you're starting, and the realization that you must adjust yourself, your situation, your surroundings, or whatever if you want to achieve your goals. But to your question, there's a disconnect between it and your premise. Ultimately, "It is what it is" is something one Evernote user said (though I believe it represents the situation all of us Evernote users are in), but has nothing at all to do with whatever reasons Evernote had for setting up a feature request mechanism. "It is what it is" does not imply that posting requests is foolish.

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On 3/26/2018 at 7:30 PM, DTLow said:

>>tags ... don't meet the need for sub-notebooks.

I'm not seeing proof of this, just that some users need the tags feature be called something different - like folders.  I think they would then find the feature more acceptable.

I often see assertions in this thread that tags can be used as a replacement for the missing folders/sub-notebooks/sections feature, but I have not yet seen a concrete suggestion for how to do that.  Rather than having to keep repeating yourself, could you give a worked example of how this would work, please?

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14 hours ago, CalS said:

Square peg in a round hole, wanting EN to perform as a deeply nested folder structure, it can't.  EN can do what you want, but not in a Windows folder metaphor.

Using tags in you parlance, applying the tags as needed to the appropriate notes:

  • Shelf tag would contain values for Professional.Development, Projects, Domestic ...  precede the tag name with !
  • Notebook tag would contain values for Courses, Projects, ....   precede the tag name with .
  • Section tag would contain values for the parts of the courses, projects... some of which might repeat   precede the tag name with _

Searches set up the browse.  A search for tag:!* sorted in tag order will return all "Shelves", "Notebooks", "Sections" notes in shelf/notebook/section order.  A search for tag:notebook.tag.name sorted in tag order will return all notes for the notebook.tag, be it course or project.  Plus other tag searches for other lists of notes.  Lists one can browse at that point.  Horses for courses.

You may want to look at the shelf and notebook breakouts in your layout, there may be some redundancy built in re projects.

I have burned a chunk of today's lunch break in looking at this again, and I'm afraid I still don't understand it.  I suspect it's like a Wikipedia article - that if one already knows the subject, one can nod and agree with the text, but it doesn't help the tyro :)

I am unclear on what you mean by "Shelf tag" containing values.  Do I need to create some kind of "container" or list of values that defines something called "shelf tag" as being that list?  I have hunted through the UI and documentation, but cannot find that described anywhere.

Why do those values need to be preceded with !, _, ., etc?  I also note that you have changed my "Professional Development" to "Professional Development" - must things be named without spaces, rather than the user friendly names that a folder hierarchy might have?

I understand the tag:!* syntax, I thnk, but I just don't get the tag:notebook.tag.name syntax - what is that doing?  What do you mean by "Shelves" etc notes?  Are you saying perhaps that the top levels of the hierarchy also contain all the notes that are further down the hierarchy?  If so, that seems rather confusing.

By "list one can browse" are you meaning that these searches return a browseable list, rather than me having a folder hierarchy I can browse?  The (albeit Apple) screenshots DTLow showed suggest that the tags can themselves be arranged in a hierarchy.

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14 hours ago, DTLow said:

I'm 🍎 only.  I know the hierarchy is available but we need advice from a Windows person.

Just to answer this question,  here's a screenshot from my Windows database tag list after right-clicking the parent tag.

ScreenClip.png.931ed1a72cac5166ca5cd83bb69ad84a.png

I generally don't use hierarchies these days.  I'm getting back into tags.  Currently 45K notes in (mostly) one notebook and (AFAIK) I haven't lost anything yet... :crossed fingers:

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2 hours ago, D-Nick said:

I often see assertions in this thread that tags can be used as a replacement for the missing folders/sub-notebooks/sections feature, but I have not yet seen a concrete suggestion for how to do that.  Rather than having to keep repeating yourself, could you give a worked example of how this would work, please?

Folder/Notebook/Tag is just the name of a field.376970676_ScreenShot2018-12-26at15_05_40.png.2463583a003de7fd6f13f70710194de9.png.98b592212217bf31661e7b3d073247ce.png.516adfc4485c107750fcf12fe7869091.png
For notes, Evernote supports two fields; Notebooks and Tags

The example I posted was a screenshot from my Mac of the sidebar.  

The tree structure is available for notebooks and tags (only two levels for notebooks)
You drag-and-drop the entries to create the structure

On Macs, you have to work in the notebook/tag page.  
For Windows, you can work in the sidebar,

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2 hours ago, D-Nick said:

This is what I am seeing on this Win 10 machine:1750161768_ScreenShot2019-02-06at07_52_54.png.bf3215e48d869da439f1cc6b27a7a7c8.png

I'm seeing a caret to the left of Notebooks.
Add some tags to notes and you'll see the same for Tags

Click on the caret to show the tree

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33 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

I often see assertions in this thread that tags can be used as a replacement for the missing folders/sub-notebooks/sections feature, but I have not yet seen a concrete suggestion for how to do that.  Rather than having to keep repeating yourself, could you give a worked example of how this would work, please?

I think it would be better for you (and this topic) to pursue this sub-conversation in a new, separate forum topic, maybe here: https://discussion.evernote.com/forum/280-organization/. While it would be great for you to find a Evernote solution for organizing your notes, it's not particularly germane to the feature request, which is already way too long for it to be much benefit to anyone else in your situation. Just my 2 cents, though.

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3 minutes ago, jefito said:

I think it would be better for you (and this topic) to pursue this sub-conversation in a new, separate forum topic, maybe here: https://discussion.evernote.com/forum/280-organization/. While it would be great for you to find a Evernote solution for organizing your notes, it's not particularly germane to the feature request, which is already way too long for it to be much benefit to anyone else in your situation. Just my 2 cents, though.

Is this not exactly what this thread is about?  I support the feature request, because I cannot see how else to do what I need to in Evernote.  People opposing the feature request say it isn't necessary, because it can all be done with a hierarchy of tags, but the concrete description of how to do that doesn't seem to have been provided.  If what I want can be done adeqautely with tags, I'll withdraw my support for this feature request.

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8 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

People opposing the feature request say it isn't necessary

That phrase is used a lot, however there is no "opposing" indicator, just arrows to indicate your support.

For users wanting organization hirearchy, there are solutions posted in the discussion.  For Notebooks, two  levels; for Tags, unlimited levels.

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29 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I'm seeing a caret to the left of Notebooks.
Add some tags to notes and you'll see the same for Tags

Click on the caret to show the tree

I do already have a bunch of tags.  I can show them by clicking the Tags item in thAre you sure this works in Windowse left panel, but no caret, no expansion, and I can't right click to create sub-tags.  

Evernote_screenshot_win10.PNG

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15 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

Is this not exactly what this thread is about?  I support the feature request, because I cannot see how else to do what I need to in Evernote.  People opposing the feature request say it isn't necessary, because it can all be done with a hierarchy of tags, but the concrete description of how to do that doesn't seem to have been provided.  If what I want can be done adeqautely with tags, I'll withdraw my support for this feature request.

It's actually fine to support the request without needing it yourself. Beyond that, going though a lengthy discussion of your individual needs is hardly likely to sway Evernote one way or another (the purpose of feature requests), while it might make it easier to get better advice on how to proceed with your own use case rather than have it be wrapped up in this already too-long thread. No concrete discussion of how to proceed with tag use is provided because any solution is likely to be highly personal -- I've refrained from offering mine as it will almost certainly differ from someone else's. But it's your choice, and it was just a suggestion that I thought would help you to sort things out. Carry on...

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2 hours ago, D-Nick said:

I am unclear on what you mean by "Shelf tag" containing values

This means a tag for each of what you refer to as shelves.  So a a tag called !ProfDEv, a tag called !Projects, as many tags as needed to represent your shelve concept.  The leading ! groups the shelf tags and makes it so that when you sort by tags these tags will be on the front.  Ditto for the grouping and sorting of the . and the _.Best not to have spaces in tags, so either put the words together or put a .or whatever.

2 hours ago, D-Nick said:

I just don't get the tag:notebook.tag.name syntax - what is that doing?

Just using a variable tag .  If you had a course in Communications and created a tag named .Communications, then a search of tag:.Communications would return all notes with that tag.

2 hours ago, D-Nick said:

Are you saying perhaps that the top levels of the hierarchy also contain all the notes that are further down the hierarchy?

Saying that if you search for tag preceded by an ! you will get all notes with that tag, and when sorted by tag the notes will display in the order of your "notebook" tags.  Less about hierarchy, more about grouping notes to area of focus, course/project, and subject within course/project if I rename your groupings a bit. 

  • If I want to see the notes for the .Communication course a search for tag:.Communication will display them all. 
  • If I create a syllabus note for each course summarizing it and only tag it with a shelf and notebook tag (ProfDev and Communications for example), a search for tag:.* -tag:_* will return only syllabus notes.  Something you can't do with folders.
  • Ditto the above with a search for tag:!* -tag:_*, will provide a list of the syllabi for all ares of interest.  Or a search of tag:ProfDev -tag:_* will return all syllabus notes for ProfDev

Personally, I like to provide structure on the fly which tags enable, not so much where they are stored.  I have 4 notebooks of merit across 41k notes.  But it isn't for everyone.  The purpose of this exercise was to show you how one could set your use case up in EN.  Hey, if this is too painful, just don't do it or think about it.  Find the method that works best for you.  Good luck.

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11 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

but no caret, no expansion,

On a Mac, right clicking the notebook/tag icon gives a show/hide option512823862_ScreenShot2019-02-06at08_30_35.png.28d3e07e4ee3e5ddc8d422ca874c30b6.png

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10 minutes ago, DTLow said:

That phrase is used a lot, however there is no "opposing" indicator, just arrows to indicate your support.

For users wanting organization hirearchy, there are solutions posted in the discussion.  For Notebooks, two  levels; for Tags, unlimited levels.

As I have said elsewhere in this thread, I have seen several times people saying that the folder hierarchy/nested notebooks/notebook sections functionality can be found by using tags, but I have not yet seen a concrete and understandable explanation of how to do that.  CalS took some steps towards that last night, but the arcane syntax of that solution has me bamboozled.  You have twice posted a screengrab from your Mac showing a tag hierarchy, but have offered no explanation of how to use this to provide (or simulate) the folder/nesting/sections notebooks functionality that is requested.  If after 10 years no-one is able to explain how using tags can meet this requirement, it is tempting to conclude that it isn't actually possible, so the feature request stands.

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31 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

I do already have a bunch of tags.  I can show them by clicking the Tags item in thAre you sure this works in Windowse left panel, but no caret, no expansion, and I can't right click to create sub-tags.  

Right click on the tag icon and un-check Show Tags View.  Though you can drag and drop from the tag view as well.

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26 minutes ago, CalS said:

This means a tag for each of what you refer to as shelves.  So a a tag called !ProfDEv, a tag called !Projects, as many tags as needed to represent your shelve concept.  The leading ! groups the shelf tags and makes it so that when you sort by tags these tags will be on the front.  Ditto for the grouping and sorting of the . and the _.Best not to have spaces in tags, so either put the words together or put a .or whatever.

Just using a variable tag .  If you had a course in Communications and created a tag named .Communications, then a search of tag:.Communications would return all notes with that tag.

Saying that if you search for tag preceded by an ! you will get all notes with that tag, and when sorted by tag the notes will display in the order of your "notebook" tags.  Less about hierarchy, more about grouping notes to area of focus, course/project, and subject within course/project if I rename your groupings a bit. 

  • If I want to see the notes for the .Communication course a search for tag:.Communication will display them all. 
  • If I create a syllabus note for each course summarizing it and only tag it with a shelf and notebook tag (ProfDev and Communications for example), a search for tag:.* -tag:_* will return only syllabus notes.  Something you can't do with folders.
  • Ditto the above with a search for tag:!* -tag:_*, will provide a list of the syllabi for all ares of interest.  Or a search of tag:ProfDev -tag:_* will return all syllabus notes for ProfDev

Personally, I like to provide structure on the fly which tags enable, not so much where they are stored.  I have 4 notebooks of merit across 41k notes.  But it isn't for everyone.  The purpose of this exercise was to show you how one could set your use case up in EN.  Hey, if this is too painful, just don't do it or think about it.  Find the method that works best for you.  Good luck.

Thanks.  I'll clear some time at the weekend to read through that properly and dig into this some more.  It does seem to have a very steep learning curve, compared with a simple folders/nesting model.  I started looking at this maybe 2 years ago, when I moved to a paid subscription, but have so far not been able to use Evernote for anything I wanted it for because I can't get this sorted.

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1 minute ago, CalS said:

Right click on the tag icon and un-check Show Tags View.  Though you can drag and drop from the tag view as well.

Sadly, no such item in the right menu here.  OOI, are you using Window or Mac?

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1 hour ago, D-Nick said:

As I have said elsewhere in this thread, I have seen several times people saying that the folder hierarchy/nested notebooks/notebook sections functionality can be found by using tags, but I have not yet seen a concrete and understandable explanation of how to do that.

I'm not sure this will help, but I will try.  As an example, create three tags, Tag 1, tag a and tag b and you will see these three tags. 

1593192517_Tag1.jpg.ea03930a6f28c04ca015844f1840151e.jpg  

Now drag tab a and drop it on top of Tag 1 and drag tab b and drop it on top of Tag 1 and you should now see this.  tag a and tag b are now child tags to Tag 1 (similar to sub-folders).  Clicking the triangle next to Tag 1 will allow you to collapse and expand the tree.

Tag 2.jpg

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1 hour ago, s2sailor said:

Now drag tab a and drop it on top of Tag 1 and drag tab b and drop it on top of Tag 1 and you should now see this.  tag a and tag b are now child tags to Tag 1 (similar to sub-folders).  Clicking the triangle next to Tag 1 will allow you to collapse and expand the tree.

Tag 2.jpg

Thanks, but that doesn't work here - I can't pick up and drag a tag.  It just selects the text on the screen.  In this screenshot, I tried to drag tag "Egypt 6 - W1" to "Coursera - GIS", but no dice.

evernote_tags_drag.PNG

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@D-Nick Hover over the Tag line and you will see a + and the search symbol.  Use that + to create the three tags I mention and then you should see the three tags in the left hand pane.  After that you don't need to click on Tags to get the tag list, instead do the drag and drop right from the left hand pane.

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8 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

@D-Nick Hover over the Tag line and you will see a + and the search symbol.  Use that + to create the three tags I mention and then you should see the three tags in the left hand pane.  After that you don't need to click on Tags to get the tag list, instead do the drag and drop right from the left hand pane.

Your patience, persistence and politeness are much appreciated, but I'm afraid that doesn't work here.  Hovering over "Tags" in the LH doesn't give a + symbol.  I see the tags only in the RH pane.  The only place I can add tags is from a note.

But don't worry about this - I am confident that I can dig into Evernote and the documentation and find how to do this.  It's hhow to use them to give the multi-level folders that I amm struggling with.

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2 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

Hovering over "Tags" in the LH doesn't give a + symbol.

That is interesting.  Are you using the Windows client and not instead logging into Evernote from your web browser?

All my comments assume you are using the Windows client.  To check which version you have go to Help -> About -> and you will see the version you have.  For example, mine shows 6.17.6.8292

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7 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

That is interesting.  Are you using the Windows client and not instead logging into Evernote from your web browser?

I am connecting to Evernote using Chrome, from Windows 10.  I'd not realised* there was another way in Windows.  Let me hunt around.  Thanks for spotting that.

* Or maybe I used to know, many years ago when I first started this saga, but had forgotten.

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1 minute ago, D-Nick said:

I am connecting to Evernote using Chrome, from Windows 10.  I'd not realised there was another way in Windows.  Let me hunt around.  Thanks for spotting that.

Ok, that explains it.  The web version, how you are accessing Evernote, is currently a work in progress and not that feature rich.  Go to the Evernote site and download and install the Windows version.  Depending on how many notes you have it may take a little bit of time to download all of your notes but once it is up and running, the comments I and others have provided should now start making more sense.  🙂

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27 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Ok, that explains it.  The web version, how you are accessing Evernote, is currently a work in progress and not that feature rich.  Go to the Evernote site and download and install the Windows version.  Depending on how many notes you have it may take a little bit of time to download all of your notes but once it is up and running, the comments I and others have provided should now start making more sense.  🙂

Yes, all your good help now makes a lot more sense - thank you very much.  I'll now see if I can work through the article by @JMichaelTX.

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4 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

Yes, all your good help now makes a lot more sense - thank you very much.  I'll now see if I can work through the article by @JMichaelTX.

Glad to help.  Keep in mind that article was written from a Mac perspective and the Mac and Windows clients differ in some ways so you might see some differences.

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29 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Glad to help.  Keep in mind that article was written from a Mac perspective and the Mac and Windows clients differ in some ways so you might see some differences.

Ta. I can't see that being a problem - I can poke around and find the Windows equivalents, as long as the model/principles are the same. It's the concept of how to use these damned tags to simulate simple folders that is beating me at the moment, and if these guys has actually done it (rather than the others just asserting that tags is all that's needed, with no backup), that's what I need to see.

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On 2/5/2019 at 1:51 PM, D-Nick said:

Thanks for the suggestions.  That makes the notes (=sections) quite a lot bigger than I would like them to be (courses typically have a collection of different items within a section, such a lecture notes, my own reading, exercises, etc), but if this is the only way it can work, at least it *can* work and be browsable, unlike these really complicated and enthusiast-only tagging techniques.

So, are you not using tags at all?  Or just using them for secondary searching?

I don't use tag's much for things like non-fiction books, as the different chapters are their own subjects the note title is enough of a description for me. I'll do a few generic tags, but I don't go crazy.

The only tags I use for school is the class name. Then each note is titled for the topic, eg, Wk1 Discussion board, Wk2 Defining Project Scope, Wk3 HW Project Charter etc. Search is really easy, I select the one tag for my class, and all of my notes pop up, then I can search within that class.

 489923241_Screenshot2019-02-11at5_04_33PM.png.04721044c5d2d46f10eb0d5ffc1e32be.png 907971322_Screenshot2019-02-11at5_15_52PM.png.1767a0d50f8c32c7026d0bbde6958d2a.png

 

The only thing I go tag heavy on is articles that I've saved in a dedicated archive notebook. I use an asterisk * instead of star or favorite, and subject(s) for example:

525885308_Screenshot2019-02-11at5_12_31PM.png.ba6aa9308065c418722e0dcdec30cafb.png

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Hello i am new to evernote and still trying set everything up.  Ive read and watch several videos and still can not get stacking to work., drag and drop does not work.  FYi  there is nothing popping up on the left or anywhere that will allow me to stack anything.  Could really use some ideas.  Thank you. m For now everything I want in one stack i have started with the same name - not liking it to much, to busy.

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On 3/11/2019 at 1:59 PM, meredithmorin said:

Hello i am new to evernote and still trying set everything up.  Ive read and watch several videos and still can not get stacking to work., drag and drop does not work.  FYi  there is nothing popping up on the left or anywhere that will allow me to stack anything.  Could really use some ideas.  

You'll get more specific directions if you identify your device/platform

I use a Mac and work in the Notebook page259693257_ScreenShot2019-03-13at12_19_29.png.d4cf87e8e1417cae4cdf3fc6d04515cd.png

Drag and drop works, or I can right-click on a notebook

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On 3/11/2019 at 4:59 PM, meredithmorin said:

Hello i am new to evernote and still trying set everything up.  Ive read and watch several videos and still can not get stacking to work., drag and drop does not work.  FYi  there is nothing popping up on the left or anywhere that will allow me to stack anything.  Could really use some ideas.  Thank you. m For now everything I want in one stack i have started with the same name - not liking it to much, to busy.

You are posting in a feature request for nested notebooks. If you want help on operating Evernote, then you'll find people waiting to do it, but you are far better off posting in an appropriate forum for that. I'd suggest starting here: https://discussion.evernote.com/forum/53-evernote-general-discussions/. If you want, one of the moderators can move your post there (I think).

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Well, it seems that evernote is forcing users to use the tags
because the most logical way is to just use sub-folders (of stacks)
*If you started with folders and stacks, why tha ***** do you need tags anyway?!

I'm gonna try it, but i'm not really doing this because I want to, I'm doing this because I'm being forced to... (I really need a 3+ hierarchy stacks of notes now)
If this becomes a bummer i'm leaving evernote (specially the process: I have 50+ folders right now and hundreds of notes...)

I may (or not) comeback and give a feedback of this

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1 hour ago, LeoMPe said:

why tha ***** do you need tags anyway?!

I use Tags (400+) because my notes have multiple reference categories
Notebooks have a purpose, related to private/shared, sync'd/local, offline, dafault

>>the most logical way is to just use sub-folders (of stacks) ... I have 50+ folders right now

Evernote has never supported folders; only the two note fields Notebooks and Tags

As you noted, Tags are supported with an unlimited parent/child hierarchy (on selected platforms).  
There is a request to add the same hierarchy to Notebooks.
You can indicate your support using the voting buttons at the top left corner of the discussion

Also see this post for simulated folders using the notebook/tag tree in the sidebar.  This handles 3+ levels

 

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1 hour ago, LeoMPe said:

Well, it seems that evernote is forcing users to use the tags
because the most logical way is to just use sub-folders (of stacks)
*If you started with folders and stacks, why tha ***** do you need tags anyway?!

Nobody's forcing you to do anything, but if you want to use Evernote, you have to figure out how to organize your notes using notebooks (non-nestable), stacks (which can only hold notebooks) and tags (nestable).

There are many way to approach using tags. A lot depends on what you're trying to do.

That being said, Evernote are aware of the desire for nested notebooks. You might be interested in the following.

 

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thanks for the replies (I already voted!) I'm gonna check the links too, thanks.

But my point is: For the past 3/4 years I've been using evernote without tags, I was doing great without it... no complains at all.
Why wasnt I using tags? well, notebook + notes + stacks is just like a simple folder (windows/mac) and it's ok, very intuitive. 
But hey, here I am now: You can't past 2 levels of hierarchy with this simple intuitive method and now you have to tag ALL the notes and restructure 4 years of evernote usage into tags!!! JUST TO USE A 3+ LEVEL HIERARCHY AND NOTHING MORE THAN IT (in my case)

Anyway, I'm gonna have to stop everything now and try to solve this. MAJOR THUMBS DOWN. And since I'm a premium user and pay for it I am now considering to move to another software because I'm kinda pissed about having to stop everything and restructure the whole thing because evernote is not considering doing ***** about this 10 years old thread.

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2 hours ago, LeoMPe said:

I'm kinda pissed about having to stop everything and restructure the whole thing because evernote is not considering doing ***** about this 10 years old thread.

So let's see -- you've had 10 years to figure things out, knowing about the Evernote architecture which has barely changed in all that time (they added stacks), and your're pissed at them???

Oh, and had you read what I linked to, Evernote *are* indeed "considering" adding nested hierarchies. They're just not able to do it currently. And no promises there, either, but "considering" is not synonymous with "implementing".

You should consider asking for help in your restructuring effort. There are folks here who will gladly help.

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23 minutes ago, jefito said:

So let's see -- you've had 10 years to figure things out, knowing about the Evernote architecture which has barely changed in all that time (they added stacks), and your're pissed at them???

Oh, and had you read what I linked to, Evernote *are* indeed "considering" adding nested hierarchies. They're just not able to do it currently. And no promises there, either, but "considering" is not synonymous with "implementing".

You should consider asking for help in your restructuring effort. There are folks here who will gladly help.

Actually, I wasn't aware about the limitation of the "1 stack only".
I just thought (this whole f*** time) that you could have stacks under stacks! It felt intuitive to think this way"Well, here is the stack option! I can place as many notebooks under this stack!... So it probably can have another stack inside! Ok, cool!" Why would I(anyone) thought that it actually can't have a stack inside another stack?!  People just figures it out until they try to place a stack under another stack. But hopefully, they will try it early on, and just move it to the Tags, early on. But not me, I never had this necessity... until now, 4 years later.

The link you post is just a company telling excuses to the users that they won't do it. I think they want it to be tagged for some reason.
Well, I have no option here. I'll figure out the tags or just take this unfortunately opportunity to look at other softwares... why not.

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3 hours ago, LeoMPe said:

Why would I(anyone) thought that it actually can't have a stack inside another stack?!  People just figures it out until they try to place a stack under another stack.

This discussion is for notebooks hierarchy; Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks

You might want to post in the discussion below

 

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13 hours ago, LeoMPe said:

"Stacks within stacks" is actually a notebook hierarchy...

Well, actually it would be a stack hierarchy, because stacks aren't notebooks. That being said, nesting stacks would probably be closer in spirit to the common folder/file tree metaphor,. 

In any case, you might look at the following to see how you might approach using tags to organize: 

 

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12 hours ago, LeoMPe said:

I'll figure out the tags or just take this unfortunately opportunity to look at other softwares... why not.

Hi.  If all you're looking for is a 'third' level of hierarchy,  then (unless I misunderstood the conversation so far - which is about a 50/50 possibility with me...) it should be fairly easy to set up with Stacks,  Notebooks and Tags. 

Use the tags for either the first,  or the last step in your hierarchy.  Got stacks that  split Work vs Personal?  Use tags instead.  Got a prospective 3rd level that adds Quotes and Invoices for each project under the Work stack?  Use tags for them instead.  I'll assume you have the 1st and 2nd layers in place already though,  so I'll assume the last layer in the hierarchy is the one you need set up.

If you want to see all the outstanding quotes for a given project,  go to its notebook and search tag:quotes.  Your 'virtual' Quotes notebook will be listed there on your screen.

Actually,  there's a way to have this third (virtual) notebook list updated automatically and have it instantly available - use Filterize to create a Table of Contents listing for all 'quotes' notes.  As you add the tag to a note,  it will be added to the list.  If you change the tag to 'invoice' it can be added to a different list.

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