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cswsteve

Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks

Idea

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As a person who has deep-seated pigeon-hole tendencies myself, it's been a difficult retraining.  But speaking up for tags (and I have 5400+ notes right now), their greatest value is one note appearing in many places based on tags.  It is seldom a note has utility in just a single domain, even if it's not immediately apparent when you gather it.  

I'll search all my notes several times using different parameters as needed for a project, give them a common tag for that project, and then using that tag gather all those into a special folder for that project.  When I'm finished, I'll create a TOC note as a reminder, and them dump the notes all back into the shared folder with that project tag still attached.   Some of my notes have a dozen tags from being associated with many writing projects.  

Think of it as 'catch, tag and release' for ideas.  

Maybe the preference for tags or subfolders really has something to do with innate cognitive differences and personality types/learning styles.   That would be an interesting psych study.  

 

As an old, old SQL dB development hand, I've watched the machine side go from deep nesting to flatter, fuzzy logic, NO SQL-style of Big Data/HADOOP manipulation.  It's been a jaw-dropping transformation in the data world, which makes me think EN is on the right side of dB history in the tags vs ratholes debate.  

 

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I must agree with those who find tags less than intuitive and that being able to have multiple levels of notebook nesting easier to use.  The concept of multiple levels fits nicely with wide spread outline experience in which topics can be nested to multiple levels.  I have also found the search function on everynote to be less than optimal.  It brings up many items that are not at all relevant and frankly at times I can't understand why a particular note was "hit"

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I must agree with those who find tags less than intuitive and that being able to have multiple levels of notebook nesting easier to use.  The concept of multiple levels fits nicely with wide spread outline experience in which topics can be nested to multiple levels.  I have also found the search function on everynote to be less than optimal.  It brings up many items that are not at all relevant and frankly at times I can't understand why a particular note was "hit"

 

I also agree that tags are initially less intuitive,  and that there is a 'brain training' period of months during which tags can be downright infuriating.  But once you get used to the concept it's like riding the proverbial bike.  I don't think either method is better - but from all appearances Evernote has no plans to change from the present layout,  so it's get used to the practice,  or find different software. 

 

Getting false hits is par for the course with any large database.  It's inevitable that the more (and longer) documents you store,  the more likely any given series of words is to have matches.  The search syntax also takes a little getting used to,  but once you can use it effectively it is possible to find exactly the material you need within one or two operations.  You can then tag that material permanently or temporarily to make searches easier,  or save the successful search for further use.

 

There's lots of discussion and many suggestions for data organisation throughout the forums if you wish to delve further..  or if you have any specific questions please feel free to raise them.

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I have read a lot of post on why having subnotebooks have advantages and speed up the organization and recall of idea's.  So what is EN reason for not including this feature.  Would it slow people down? Are they trying to teach us a better way and we just can't grasp it? Is it to to much processing power? Bandwdth? What is the reason.   

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I have read a lot of post on why having subnotebooks have advantages and speed up the organization and recall of idea's.  So what is EN reason for not including this feature.  Would it slow people down? Are they trying to teach us a better way and we just can't grasp it? Is it to to much processing power? Bandwdth? What is the reason.   

 

There are innumerable posts in the forums covering both sides of the argument - for and against hierarchies.  Evernote don't generally seem to feel a need to justify their product design - the simple fact is that this has been the choice since it's inception,  and they've shown no inclination to change.  They may have given it some thought,  or they may simply have followed Google who use the same structure - and have even more accounts than Evernote. 

 

As a user,  either you learn to use it,  or you find a different product.  :( 

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Well, I've been waiting for years to see nested sub-notes in Evernote. I started using outliner apps since the era of the Palm smart phones, and I have accumulated legacy notes with as much as 5 layers of hierarcal sub-notes deep. As of now, I use CarbonFin for iOS and Windows. I believe that it is the last of multi platform outliner apps. I'd feel better if they would charge a fee for their services in order to stay in business, but they are not monetized by any means that I can see: not by ads, nor by subscription. Any one who knows of a similar outliner, please advise me.

As for Evernote, I believe they never envisioned the use of their app as an OUTLINER with ability of infinite collapse and expansion: which is no small fit of programming either. Furthermore the newcomers in information management perhaps never experienced the practical benefits of an outliner, so they are not compelling the app creators like EN to offer such depth in their apps. Let' hope that some new startups find it profitable to court the outliner users, and save this effective tool of information management.

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Any one who knows of a similar outliner, please advise me.

 

 

workflowy.com

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All good reasons for requesting sub stacks- basically Evernote thinks they know best and is not listening to their customer base. I don't want to open Evernote and see 100s of Notebooks or stacks- I want to control what I see.

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Many power-users (customers) on this forum have pointed out the effectiveness of minimizing the # of notebooks.

 

They control what they see with: 

1.) tags

2.) structured consistent titles

3.) YYMMDD title prefixes

4.) Evernote search grammar terms

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I understand that many would prefer a more hierarchical notebook structure.  It just seems EN is disinclined to implement such a thing.

 

IMHO, the more notes you have the more a pain search can become if you have a lot of notebooks/stacks.  Notebooks and stacks segregate your notes in searches so if you didn't put it where you thought you did you won't find it.  Then you end up doing an all notes search or something close.  Tags don't segregate your notes, but if you tag something wrong, same issue and solution. 

 

So for me, as few notebooks and tags as possible is the solution.  Currently I have 8 notebooks, 2 stacks, and 300 or so tags (named so I can remember them) with 30k notes.  Typically I will get a search result with less than 20 notes which makes it easy to find what I was seeking.  FWIW.

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IMHO, the more notes you have the more a pain search can become if you have a lot of notebooks/stacks.  Notebooks and stacks segregate your notes in searches so if you didn't put it where you thought you did you won't find it.  Then you end up doing an all notes search or something close.

 

Sorry Cal, I don't see how having more Notebooks causes you to "have the more a pain search".

If you have more than one Notebook, then you will need to search using "All Notes", which is very easy to do, if you want to search outside of the current selected Notebook.  So it is irrelevant whether you have two, twenty, or 200 Notebooks.

 

Using a Notebooks is just one more way to organize and find your Notes.  Mis-filing is always a concern, but that can happen just as easily with tags and keywords in Note Titles, as with Notebooks.

 

I have found Notebooks to be a very effective tool, especially with entities like projects.

I can first easily filter on Notebook (using the "Jump to Notebook" shortcut), and then, if needed, ADD tag filters using the "Jump to Tag" shortcut.

Also, showing Reminders (used to indicated key notes) AFTER a Notebook and/or tag filter is very powerful.

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I found a huge reason for more than one notebook when I started syncing some notebooks into Jorte Calendar.

Tested and put all my (over 15000) notes into the calendar crashed my phone, twice.

 

If you don't need for more than one notebook, don't have more...

I need more than one...

 

And I tag all notes .NB "notebooks name" so I easy can restore from ENEX (I export stacks)  if I need to. But I still use notebooks

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IMHO, the more notes you have the more a pain search can become if you have a lot of notebooks/stacks.  Notebooks and stacks segregate your notes in searches so if you didn't put it where you thought you did you won't find it.  Then you end up doing an all notes search or something close.

 

Sorry Cal, I don't see how having more Notebooks causes you to "have the more a pain search".

 

No need to be sorry, as always different strokes for different folks.  I simply view notebooks as the way to segregate notes for searches, not to fully organize the notes.  So fewer notebooks makes sense in my world (assuming one puts like notes in the same notebook).  And I would say the bulk of my searches are all notes, some are by stack, and rarely by notebook.  But it ain't for everyone.  :)

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In the beginning, I started off creating a lot of notebooks. Because the notebooks were specific for a topic, each notebook contained just a few notes. Using Evernote's search grammar and consistent title structures allowed me to find the information just as fast as if they were in just one notebook. In other words, the dozens of notebooks were not offering me any advantage. 

 

So I reached a compromise between 1 notebook and the 250 maximum.

 

After a few months, I consolidated the notebooks into broad categories (work, home, leisure, financial, and miscellaneous).  This has worked well for me over the past 7 years and 30,000+ notes.

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When I started working with Evernote I used it with an organization I was used to before. The concept of tags was new to me and it took some time to digest. But after some time I started to appreciate it. It actually allows you to organize the information in a similar way as your brain works. Your brain does not put information into a hierarchical tree-like structure (notebooks and sub-notebooks). It keeps it in context and creates relations between information in a very complex way. With tags you can do the same. You can link a note to different contexts using tags. Today I am using just two stacks, one for work related notes one for private and less than 10 notebooks per stack but about 200 tags. And actually I could live with one notebook only and exchange e.g. the stacks 'work' and 'private' by two additional tags.

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Please. Using Evernote makes me feel somewhat retarded everytime I can't stack items as they should

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18 minutes ago, Ãxel said:

Please. Using Evernote makes me feel somewhat retarded everytime I can't stack items as they should

I'm not sure Evernote can be blamed for your problems.

Why wouldn't you use tags for stacking items, for example: Insurance > House  or Insurance > Car

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the main reason i mainly stick to notebooks is because it requires slightly less effort than tagging. like when creating a new note on the desktop version, the notebook will automatically be selected but tagging involves 2 extra steps, clicking "add tag" or "f3", and then typing the name of the tag. when a tag is selected from the left menu and you make a new note, its created in the default notebook but the tag that was being viewed isn't added to the note. it's the same deal on android but slightly more awkward because of the screen size.

it sounds fairly insignificant but even though ive tried tags many times i still end up adding to notebooks because its just that bit quicker and easier. i think if the process of adding tags had a bit more polish i might be able to switch.

like having the tag list pop up on windows instead of having to type first would mean a tag could be using only a mouse. if 3 or so recent tags were listed it would make it quicker and maybe 3 suggestions/predictions, something similar to how the web clipper works. these would make it even easier on the mobile version of evernote.

also when typing tags it just uses a basic search instead of fuzzy. why hasn't that ever been updated? for example if you want to add the tag "SomeName" and can only remember part of the name and type "Name" it wont show up... you have to type "Some" from the very beginning or else it disappears from the list. 

there are plenty other little things about tag entry that could be improved that i wont get into but i think its all very strange when people say evernote is best suited to tag use instead of notebooks, yet evernote seems to be designed better to add things to notebooks. so something doesn't add up. even the new android widget lets you quickly add a note to a notebook, but not to a tag. 

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5 minutes ago, savagecabage said:

stick to notebooks is because it requires slightly less effort than tagging. like when creating a new note on the desktop version, the notebook will automatically be selected

That is true, there is no default tag - not sure I'd want it
I have a default notebook (@inbox) where everything goes until I process it.
On my mail-to-evernote process, I have the option of specifying notebooks or tags; I don't use it too much because I prefer the inbox process.

How do you handle the situation where a note belongs in more than one notebook?

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3 hours ago, AndreasM said:

create a note Note1 tagged with TagA only. Does it mean that by clicking on parent TagAB I will see Note1?

Sorry for the confusion.  Your understanding of tag hierarchies is correct.  If TagAB has NOT been assigned to Note1, then clicking on TagAB will NOT show Note1 in the filtered note list.

My point with pseudo NBs (tags) is that you can create a tag hierarchy in the way you would like to view your Notes.  But if you want any parent tag to include notes of its child tags, the parent tag most also be assigned to the same notes.  Think of the top-level pseudo NB like a book cover. When you open a book you don't see all of the pages.  You have to go to each chapter/page to see it.  The pseudo NB tag hierarchy lets you describe the chapters in the book in a visual way.

So, as I have said before, it is NOT a perfect system, but I believe it is the best we can do to simulate an unlimited number of notebooks and sub-notebooks.  If it is important to you for the parent pseudo NB to "contain" all of the notes of its child tags, then you will need to do a search like this:
any: tag:ChildA tag:ChildB tag:ChildC   etc

This will select all note with any of the child tags.  Then assign the parent tag to those notes.

This is less than ideal for sure, but it is workable.  If you need to do this a lot, then create a Saved Search.

My workflow goes something like this:

  1. All new notes go to ".INBOX" an actual notebook
  2. If tags were not assigned via web clipping (usually they are), then I usually assign two or more tags:
    1. A top-level pseudo NB, like ".NB.IT"
    2. A primary category tag, like "IT.SW" or "EN.Mac"
    3. Additional sub-category tags if I feel they are important, and likely to be used
  3. Move the Note to "Active", my primary actual notebook

Most of my new notes now come from web clippings.  I have to say that I am very impressed with the EN Web Clipper.  After having used it for a while, it accurately auto-selects the proper notebook and top-level pseudo NB (tag).

I hope this helps.  Please feel free to ask more questions and challenge my approach.  I expect to learn from this, and will adapt my approach over time as I learn more.

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@all discussing here about how to replace lack of Evernote's support through using tags: your effort and sharing is great for all. But @evernote don't forget that all those techniques are nothing but workarounds for an incredible dab design of the notebooks feature by thinking the can have only two levels.

"Tags" are TAGS, and "notebooks" are a synonym of what it's currently called directories in computing, applied to a system where items are called "notes".

Trying to use tags as directories is a pain in the ass:

  1. Because you know that you are using something the way it wasn't intended to be used, and you know that the efforts on the development team of the product won't match you current work style. Using a software the against its design sucks.
  2. Because you know that when this finally gets addressed you won't be able to replace tags with notebooks in the end. Using a software the against its design sucks, again.
  3. Because it clobbers your tag list with pseudo notebooks. Using a software the against its design sucks - surprise!
  4. Because managing groups of notes by its tag has some usability issues vs managing a ***** notebook. Using a software the against its design sucks and it's obvious.
  5. You can't share a tag because... it's not a notebook containing notes. And that's why using a software the against its design sucks.

That's only why I can achieve to imagine using only 5 minutes of my time and without joining the adventure of misusing tags.

I am very surprised about @evernote not addressing this when the software is so cool, stable and mature nowadays, but also very surprised about some people here blaming others about "this is not an evernote's problem, but a problem of you because you don't know how to use the software".

Greetings.

 

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53 minutes ago, Ãxel said:

Trying to use tags as directories is a pain in the ass:

Actually it is not.  Have you  tried it?

I get it that that is not your preferred solution, but to be practical it is highly unlikely that Evernote will change its basic notebook design.  Users have been complaining/requesting improved notebook features for many, many years now, and Evernote has made only one, small change in all that time:  Added "Stacks".

So, you have a choice:  Make the best of the tool you have, or change tools.

If you don't let the term "notebook" mislead you, or limit you, then almost all of the functionality you want from a notebook can be obtained using tags.

Let's take a very broad category of information that I will call "Personal".  If I create a bunch of notes that I want to be associated with "Personal" I can use either a notebook named "Personal", or a tag named "Personal"

There is no material difference between a notebook of "Personal" and a tag of "Personal" in how I reference those notes:

  • In the left Sidebar, I can click on the label for either to filter the notes
  • In the Search box, I can filter the list using qualifiers for either ("notebook:" vs "tag:")
  • In the Notebook filter (dropdown list at top of note list), I can select the "Personal" notebook, which is analogous to selecting the "Personal" tag in the Tag Filter.
  • For each note, I would need to choose either the "Personal" notebook, or the "Personal" tag

So, from an user's organization perspective, use of a notebook and tag are the same.

The difference comes in when the user wants to either:

  1. Have more than 250 broad categories (like Project 100 - Project 500)
  2. Use logical, hierarchical subdivisions of the category (often called "sub-notebooks")

So, notebooks do NOT offer any organization advantage over tags.
Whereas tags offer many organization advantages over notebooks

  1. Virtually unlimited number of tags
  2. Can have a many sub-tags (sub-categories) in the tag hierarchy as you like
  3. Can assign multiple tags to the same note
    (so, for example, a computer asset Note can be referenced by both "Business" and "Personal")

This is not just theory.  I have demonstrated the use of tags as pseudo Notebooks for several months now, and I can say it works extremely well.  I have NOT found any usage or organization issues.  I have NOT found any missing features using tags vs using notebooks.  In fact my experience has been extremely positive since using tags has eliminated a number of obstacles I had with notebooks.

There are definitely some use cases that require notebooks, like sharing and mobile off-line storage.  One of the many benefits of using pseudo Notebooks is that I can create an actual EN notebook for sharing that still has my pseudo Notebook tag.

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On 10/14/2015 at 3:43 AM, Stuhrer said:

When I started working with Evernote I used it with an organization I was used to before. The concept of tags was new to me and it took some time to digest. But after some time I started to appreciate it. It actually allows you to organize the information in a similar way as your brain works. Your brain does not put information into a hierarchical tree-like structure (notebooks and sub-notebooks). It keeps it in context and creates relations between information in a very complex way. With tags you can do the same. You can link a note to different contexts using tags. Today I am using just two stacks, one for work related notes one for private and less than 10 notebooks per stack but about 200 tags. And actually I could live with one notebook only and exchange e.g. the stacks 'work' and 'private' by two additional tags.

I'm trying to bend my mind around this Evernote concept of hierarchy by tag, in order to see if I can convert hundreds of CarbonFin outlines to Evernote. Maybe you can help me make the transition. I have created a drawing, representing the (Stack, Notebook, Tags) approach that you have suggested but this forum wouldn't allow me to upload it.

When browsing an outline system for notes about Car Loan for example, one would normally  start from a larger category like "Private" note, then drill down to “Car” subnote> “Loan” sub-subnote etc.

How then do you browse in Evernote?
In Evernote, do you star by filtering the whole stack for the “Loan” tag, then test each “Loan” tag to see if they are related to the “Home” notebook, the Finance notebook, or the car notebook?

 

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5 hours ago, Christozoid said:

In Evernote, do you star by filtering the whole stack for the “Loan” tag, then test each “Loan” tag to see if they are related to the “Home” notebook, the Finance notebook, or the car notebook?

For this purpose; a tag is just a tag, nothing else. There is no real hierarchy.
You can have a combination search   tag:Loan tag:Home  tag:Private .....
however there is no hierarchy *** This may have changed in the recent Windows beta

Regarding your chart.
Evernote does not allow duplicate tag names.
You can call your tags     Private-Car-Loan       Private-House-Loan
or use multiple tags         Private Car  Loan      Private  House  Loan

My preference is to use multiple tags

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18 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

Actually it is not.  Have you  tried it?

I get it that that is not your preferred solution, but to be practical it is highly unlikely that Evernote will change its basic notebook design.  Users have been complaining/requesting improved notebook features for many, many years now, and Evernote has made only one, small change in all that time:  Added "Stacks".

@JMichaelTX I've seen this kind of scenario several times before (enterprise is sure that all complaining users are wrong and its implementatrion is best for the user, user tries it, user is happy) and in all cases I finally agreed with the enterprise, but this time seems impossible to me to agree:

Notebooks are useful for some things and tags are useful for others; trying to assume that notebooks are limited on its functionality because they are not stackable, and that you must stop using notebooks for its natural feature and use tags for two different features (tagging and stacking) trying to cover the usability lack of the notebooks is terrible and leads to error prone management. Software developers know the users are prone to committing errors and tools must help us avoid that.

Also, lack of ability to manage shared work when you stop using notebooks and begin using tags turns the software much less useful when you migrate from notebooks to tags.

18 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

So, you have a choice:  Make the best of the tool you have, or change tools.

I know. I am just trying to make the user feedback on this post even more complete adding my humble opinion about that, gathering the users feedback with the best quality is valuable for the company.

I think with no doubt (I say this with all my respect) that not addressing this issue is a terrible decission from the EN team, but also know that even with this design issue, EN is still a better product than any on the competition and that is why happy-with-tags an unhappy-with-tags users are we all still using it.

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4 hours ago, Ãxel said:

I've seen this kind of scenario several times before (enterprise is sure that all complaining users are wrong and its implementatrion is best for the user, user tries it, user is happy) and in all cases I finally agreed with the enterprise, but this time seems impossible to me to agree:

I should clarify.  My preference would be for Evernote to support unlimited number of Notebooks and sub-Notebooks, just like folders on my Mac.
But they don't, and they do not show any interest in doing so, maybe never.
So, I'm using the tools provided to me, regardless of the original intent by the developers, to get the most out of Evernote that I can.

4 hours ago, Ãxel said:

Notebooks are useful for some things and tags are useful for others; trying to assume that notebooks are limited on its functionality because they are not stackable, and that you must stop using notebooks for its natural feature and use tags for two different features (tagging and stacking) trying to cover the usability lack of the notebooks is terrible and leads to error prone management.

I have no idea what you mean by "error prone management", but I have actually tried using Evernote with a lot of well organized Notebooks, and now with a lot of well organized Tags.  There is no "error".  The management of my notes, using tags, is working very well.
Perhaps you just don't understand it.  People often condemn or have bias against things they don't understand.

Perhaps you missed the part where I said "This is not just theory. I have demonstrated the use of tags as pseudo Notebooks for several months now, and I can say it works extremely well."

4 hours ago, Ãxel said:

Also, lack of ability to manage shared work when you stop using notebooks and begin using tags turns the software much less useful when you migrate from notebooks to tags

You must have missed this part of my previous post:

22 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

There are definitely some use cases that require notebooks, like sharing and mobile off-line storage.  One of the many benefits of using pseudo Notebooks is that I can create an actual EN notebook for sharing that still has my pseudo Notebook tag.

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6 hours ago, DTLow said:

In Evernote a tag is just a tag, nothing else. There is no real hierarchy.

There is a real hierarchy, it just does not have full inheritance on the notes that have been assigned the tag.

It is hierarchy of tags, but not of notes.  Hierarchy simple means the data has a parent-child relationship.  And that is true of Evernote tags.

So, it turns out that it is more of an organizational tools for tags than for notes, unless the user ensures that all of a tags parents are also assigned to the same note.

Having said all that, I still find using a tag hierarchy to be a useful tool to organize my notes.  
Yes, it would be better if tag hierarchy:

  1. Applied the parent-child relationship to the notes, so that if I only assign certain child tags to a note, then a search/filter using the Parent tag would include all notes that have its child tags
  2. I could use the same tag name in multiple tag hierarchies.

However, one of the big issues is that tag hierarchies are NOT supported on mobile devices.

EDIT:  2016-04-04  18:13 CT

I should add that real tag inheritance *could* be coming soon to EN Mac.  It is already in the New Evernote for Windows, v6.0 Beta 

57 minutes ago, csihilling said:

Tag inheritance is included in the new Windows beta.  So if you create a tag hierarchy with Animal as the parent and the rest as children, you would be able to do a tag:Animal search and get all the notes even without any of them being tagged with Animal. 

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On 4/4/2016 at 11:47 AM, Christozoid said:

When browsing an outline system for notes about Car Loan for example, one would normally  start from a larger category like "Private" note, then drill down to “Car” subnote> “Loan” sub-subnote etc.

How then do you browse in Evernote?
In Evernote, do you star by filtering the whole stack for the “Loan” tag, then test each “Loan” tag to see if they are related to the “Home” notebook, the Finance notebook, or the car notebook?

Because of the greater capability and flexibility of tags over notebooks, I would model your needs using tags, specifically Using Tags as Pseudo Notebooks 

  • .NB.Private
    • .NB.Home
      • other sub-categories as you like
      • I have quite a few "Home." tags, probably more than most people
      • It is totally up to you how broad or detailed you get with sub-categories
      • Here's my list: (which will be more than most people want)
        EN-Mac-6.6-Tags-Home-List.png
    • .NB.Car
      • I have a similar sub-cat tag list for my cars (which I call "Auto")
    • .NB.Finance
      • Loan
    • .NB.Travel
    • etc

Just like you would always assign a Notebook to a Note, I would always assign at least one pseudo NB (those tags with a prefix of ".NB.") to a note.  So in your diagram, all "private" notes would have a tag of ".NB.Private".

For a note that is info about a loan, I would tag it like this:

  • .NB.Private
  • .NB.Finance
  • Loan
  • and then whichever other category applied, could be both:
    • .NB.Home
      OR
    • .NB.Car

Now when you search for, say car loans, it would be:
tag:.NB.Car tag:Loan

If you want to browse through your home stuff, then click on the .NB.Private tag to expand, and then expand the .NB.Home tag.  There you would see all of your "Home." tags, and click on whichever one you want to explore.

If you want to see cross-cutting tags like "Loan", click on ".NB.Home" to filter the list for that tag.
Then click on the Tags filter, and ADD "Loan".
Now you see a list of notes related to loans for your home.

I have one other tag hierarchy I call "MY STUFF".  I use these tags to clearly identify notes about stuff that is actually mine, vs about the same subject, but is just information.  For example, "MY.Books" are books that I actually own, whereas "Books" would include those as well as other books I may have some interest in, or that are reviews of, use as a reference, etc. 

You could use just one tag named "Mine", but I like having:

  • MY.Books
  • My.Doctor
  • MY.History
  • MY.House
  • etc

This has become a very long list, so it is probably better to to use one tag for "Mine" and then another tag that I already have, like "MED.Doctor" instead of also having "MY.Doctor", OR like "Mine" and "Books".
You decide which way you like best.

Please see my post on  Using Tags as Pseudo Notebooks for more details and examples.

Well, I hope this gives you some ideas.  Please feel free to come back with questions.

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Ho-hum.  I have been an unenthusiastic user of Evernote for several years.  Its capabilities for me to put web clips, documents, emails, etc. into shared notebooks and enable offline notebooks makes it extremely useful for travel planning.  Unenthusiastic because it is so crippled by its cave-man folder structure.

I check these forums every 6 months to a year and it is always the same:  Never is there an announcement that the deficiency is being fixed.  Instead, there is always an Evernote zealot, having newly discovered the wheel, patiently explaining how tags can be used as a workaround for the lack of a folder hierarchy.  Workaround, children.  It's a workaround.  Workarounds are bad and they come to bad ends.

I do marvel though at the cave-man level of intelligence at Evernote that does not admit that this is a major design flaw.  I had many exposures to computer file systems before MS-DOS came along and I do not remember, even then, that any of them were as fundamentally crippled as Evernote is.  Maybe some were, in which case I will emit a sigh of gratitude that they have passed into the distant mists.

So I use Evernote as the limited, special-purpose tool that it is and I hope that, somehow, some way, the cave men will see the light.

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4 hours ago, Flier said:

Instead, there is always an Evernote zealot, having newly discovered the wheel, patiently explaining how tags can be used as a workaround for the lack of a folder hierarchy.  Workaround, children.  It's a workaround.  Workarounds are bad and they come to bad ends.

I'm not an " Evernote zealot", but I am a big user of Evernote and have learned how to take advantage of what it offers.  Are you just whining because you can't get what you want, or have you actually tried using tags?

Few things in life are perfect, and we most always have to adapt the tools available (or affordable) for our specific uses.  Workarounds are NOT necessarily bad.  Sometimes a "workaround" is just a clever way of using a product for other than its original intended use.  Ignore the tools offered by Evernote at your own peril loss (bad choice of a word).

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1 hour ago, Flier said:

So I use Evernote as the limited, special-purpose tool

Evernotes has notebooks/tags/searches as tools to fulfill user note collection requirements.
I'm not sure what your requirements are but if you identify them first; I'm sure you'll see that there are tools for them.
Its not a great process if you start your requirement definition by specifying a specific tool.

Examples of requirements:
- I need to identify all notes having xxxx in the text
- I need to identify all notes that I classed as xxxxx
- I need to share this collection of notes with other users
- I need to keep this collection of notes local and not sync/d to the cloud
 

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54 minutes ago, JMichaelTX said:

I'm not an " Evernote zealot", but I am a big user of Evernote and have learned how to take advantage of what it offers.  Are you just whining because you can't get what you want, or have you actually tried using tags?

Few things in life are perfect, and we most always have to adapt the tools available (or affordable) for our specific uses.  Workarounds are NOT necessarily bad.  Sometimes a "workaround" is just a clever way of using a product for other than its original intended use.  Ignore the tools offered by Evernote at your own peril.

I'm not going to get into an extended debate here but I will tell you what I have learned during a career in engineering and computing:  Bad tools are bad.  They are bad even if one can figure out how to use them via workarounds.  True craftsmen never use such tools willingly and, if they must use them in a limited way, they do not accept them as anything but an interim necessity while waiting for the better tool.  Poor craftsmen, OTOH, accept poor tools without even understanding what they are doing.

"Peril"  ??!! The zealots will attack?  I am terrified.

(I guess the attack has already started.) DTLow:  My requirement is for an information organizing tool whose basic approach, hierarchical folders, is consistent with every other computer file system in the known universe.  I do not need a car where the gas pedal must be pulled upwards to accelerate, despite the fact that such a car would meet the requirement of having an accelerator.

End of discussion from my end.  I'm gone again for another six months, at which time I'll be back to check on the cave men.

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10 hours ago, Flier said:

My requirement is for an information organizing tool whose basic approach, hierarchical folders, is consistent with every other computer file system in the known universe.

I think you're looking at the wrong software.  Evernote doesn't use a note folder methodology.

I'd describe it more as a note label methodology.
Its kind of the latest thing in organization.  Even computer file systems are starting to use it by adding file tags

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3 hours ago, Flier said:

"Peril"  ??!! The zealots will attack?  I am terrified.

Sorry, no attack intended.  I really meant "loss", as in your loss by not using the tools Evernote provides.

3 hours ago, Flier said:

I'm gone again for another six months, at which time I'll be back to check on the cave men.

Too bad.  Us cave men and women just unearthed a gold mine in the EN Win 6 Beta -- full tag inheritance.  Probably coming to a Mac near you soon.  But then you don't use tags . . .

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Dear Evernote Forum,

I am using Evernote since 2 years now and now I am feeling that I am missing a function within EN. Sometimes I want to write long texts within Evernote (like Texts for a Blog or even a book), but I want to chop up the scenes in to different notes. That results in a lot of notes which have to be organized within a notebook. Therefore I would like to be able to have notebooks within notebooks. So generally I would like to be able to have a notebook with limitless folders.  Right now it is only possible to have a notebook with several folders. But the folders in the notebook themselves cannot have folders too.

 

What do you think about this request? Do you think that this feature would ease your work within EN? I already wrote to the support and they said that they marked my ticket as a feature request. They also recommended me to share my idea with you.

Best regards.

 

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2 hours ago, CreativeSoul said:

Therefore I would like to be able to have notebooks within notebooks. So generally I would like to be able to have a notebook with limitless folders.  Right now it is only possible to have a notebook with several folders. But the folders in the notebook themselves cannot have folders too.

Its been discussed often in the forum.

An alternative is to use tags
You could even call your tags Folder-1 Folder-1.5 Folder-2 etc
The Mac platform allows for tags to be arranged in a limitless hierarchy,
for example      Folder-1
                              Folder-1.5
                                   Folder -1.5.1
                         Folder-2

Personally, I use tags for organization/classification;
I use notebooks for their special features like Local and Sharing.

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You can create a table of contents note with links to your notes in it.  A quick search found this help.

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On 4/16/2016 at 8:08 AM, CreativeSoul said:

Therefore I would like to be able to have notebooks within notebooks. So generally I would like to be able to have a notebook with limitless folders.  Right now it is only possible to have a notebook with several folders. But the folders in the notebook themselves cannot have folders too.

What do you think about this request? Do you think that this feature would ease your work within EN?

This is one of the most frequently made requests, and has been for many years.  Yet Evernote has given no sign that they will even consider such a request.  For an example of these requests, see Nested notebook stacks? 

However, you can achieve most, if not all, of what you want to use Notebooks for, by using a system I call Pseudo Notebooks.  These are actually tags, but you can use them in every way like you would a real notebook1, PLUS you can have a virtually unlimited number, and have as many sub-[pseudo Notebooks] as you like.  See Using Tags as Pseudo Notebooks 

[1] The exception is that pseudo notebooks cannot be use for sharing or offline storage.

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Thank you all for your interesting and creative work-arounds. I think table of contents or the workaround with the tags are useful, but I don't know whether I could integrate them into my workflow in EN after 2 years. I barely use tags (i don't feel comfortable with them). Anyways thanks again for your help, I hope that the EN-Team will think about this feature again! Does somebody know, why Evernote is not implementing this feature? 

On 16. April 2016 at 1:20 AM, JMichaelTX said:

This is one of the most frequently made requests, and has been for many years.  Yet Evernote has given no sign that they will even consider such a request.

 

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19 hours ago, CreativeSoul said:

I barely use tags (i don't feel comfortable with them).

From its inception, surely tags have been regarded by most as being one of Evernote's most useful organisational features, one that takes it head and shoulders over nearly all the other note apps for ease of navigation.

Could you explain why they make you uncomfortable and why notebooks within notebooks would be more accessible than nested tags?

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On April 16, 2016 at 7:37 AM, DTLow said:

Therefore I would like to be able to have notebooks within notebooks. So generally I would like to be able to have a notebook with limitless folders.

 

On April 23, 2016 at 2:22 AM, CreativeSoul said:

I barely use tags (i don't feel comfortable with them).

To all you notebook and folder people
I'm sorry to break this to you - for digital filing, there are no REAL notebooks or folders.
You can't have notebooks inside of notebooks

These are just labels assigned to a note.

These labels go by various names: Notebook, folder, tag, keyword etc.
But the truth is - they are just labels

It doesn't make much sense when people are specifying their preference for tag, notebook, folder without consideration of the features and limitations of each. Its just a name.

For example, this makes more sense:
I used a notebook instead of a tag for these notes so I could share them.

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.... or I used a notebook/stack to get one click context for searches

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Hi there.  Amazing product you have.  Unless I'm missing something, I would love to have the ability to nest multiple notebooks.  Like sub-notebooks

For example:

Notebook Stack:
     To-Do
           Work
                 Job1234
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
                 Job4321
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
          Home
                 To-Buy
                       Shoprite
                       Costco
                       Lowes
                 To-Fix
                       Kitchen
                       Master Bedroom

 

Thanks so much.  I couldn't live without evernote.  I use it on my phone, ipad, laptop, desktop.  Truly a terrific product.

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8 hours ago, magkcbw said:

I would love to have the ability to nest multiple notebooks.  Like sub-notebooks

For notebooks, the best you can do is store a collection of notebooks in a stack.
Only one level of nesting.

Have you looked at tags; there's no limit to the nesting levels
People do use notebooks for organization, but notebooks have limitations. 
They are more suited for their special features with collections of notes such as Trash, Local, Offline, Shared

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Hi there, thank you for the reply and your workaround.  It's appreciated. I thought tags were just keywords to search by, but if you are saying no limit to nesting levels I must have not understood it properly.  I'll read up on it.

Just out of curiosity, why the restriction?  If evernote is about note taking and organization and all that, what is the purpose of locking it down with restrictions.  Since it wouldn't change the way people who use it as it is, it would only be an enhancement for organization freaks like me.  If it's just a matter of wording, make a sub-notebooks or some such. 

No restrictions my friend DTLow...where are we?  Communist China? ***** Germany?  Give me nesting or give me death!  

In all seriousness, I appreciate your help.  Thanks for your time.

 

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On May 14, 2016 at 9:24 AM, magkcbw said:

Just out of curiosity, why the restriction?  If evernote is about note taking and organization and all that, what is the purpose of locking it down with restrictions.  Since it wouldn't change the way people who use it as it is, it would only be an enhancement for organization freaks like me.  If it's just a matter of wording, make a sub-notebooks or some such. 

Maybe restrictions was the wrong word - how about limitations. I edited my post.

Notebooks and Tags are different tools.

If I want my notes to be  local/offline/syncd/sharedI use a Notebook

If I want to organize my notes with multi-levels, I use a Tag

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I need this functionality too it is severely crippling and illogical to use pseudo tagging. Here's 90% of my workflows:

  1. Gather data for things I research on the internet.
  2. Clip found data into evernote, thanks to webclipper it almost always picks the right notebook to clip into.
  3. Brainstorm/grade collected data later on, easy to do with almost folder like hierarchy.

But I've ran up a ton of note stacks. I need deeper nesting. 

So this is what my new workflow should be?

  1. Gather data on the internet.
  2. Clip it into evernote.
  3. Think about hierarchical tag structure for that note
  4. Implement tag structure to each clipped note manually
  5. Note down my tag structure in some graphical overview/make a picture
  6. Use the correct tag search to get all my tags for the "folder"
  7. Brainstorm/grade collected data later on

Seriously? That's extremely primitive. I'll jump ship towards another note taking tool as soon as I find one with pdf and ocr searching which is somewhat as advanced as Evernote. Does Evernote realize/care that it's ruining its industry leading product by simply not caring about a functionality that has been requested for 8 years and has been shoved aside without a single explanation why it will not be implemented?

Also please consider how annoying this would be on an android. I don't know about everyone else but my typing speed on a mobile is at least halfed compared to the desktop if not quartered. So am I really expected to type out PDFs.Biology.Cancer.Research.In-Vivo.Finished to find my pdf's? You know what would help a lot in this case? Folder-like tree navigation that you simply open up with a finger tap.

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On 6/3/2016 at 9:46 AM, vetmode said:

Clip found data into evernote, thanks to webclipper it almost always picks the right notebook to clip into.

I find the EN Clipper also almost always picks the right primary tag to use.

In my case, those are pseudo Notebook tags, which, for most purposes, work just like an actual Notebook.
Now that EN Win has tag inheritance (as an option), clicking on a top-level tag, shows all Notes that have it, or any of its child tags, as a tag.

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In my opinion, the difference between a folder structure and tag structure is the role of the order.
In a folder structure AB is not the same as BA where is in a tag structure they are the same

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9 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

In my opinion, the difference between a folder structure and tag structure is the role of the order.
In a folder structure AB is not the same as BA where is in a tag structure they are the same

Can you explain that further,
and how folders enter this discussion?  So far we have Stacks, Notebooks, and Tags

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I think the reference to folder is to make it clear that the notebook structure is analogous to the folders structure in Windows.

Tags is definitely the way to go. I ditched most of my notebooks and put everything in one notebook except for special notebooks which I have for shared or offline notes. The multiple tags means that you can tag with tags that are not in the same tree (it's not just the equivalence of AB and BA). So in the OPs original folder structure a note  could be tagged with "to buy" and "kitchen". There would also be no need for two notebooks (or tags) named "on-site notes". 

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7 hours ago, Mike P said:

I think the reference to folder is to make it clear that the notebook structure is analogous to the folders structure in Windows

So A and B are folders (like Windows filing)  compared to A and B tags in Evernote
and

>>@Mata Hari: In a folder structure AB is not the same as BA where is in a tag structure they are the same

Indicating using folders, you would have to copy the note to put it into both folders A and B

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To me the structure of EN built on Notes Notebooks Stacks is just a tree structure  with 3 levels (or 2 if you like to see the Notes as level 0) 
The theoretical basis is tree structure and there are many variations on that, the usual is folders and menus etc
In a tree structure, AB is not the same as BA (A and B are example of folder names)
But with MULTI TAGS you have no order. I can have tag T1 T2 or T2 T1 and it points to the same notes
Nesting tags is possible in EN to several levels.  But it is not a true tree structure.
If you search tag T2 it will return notes with that tag but not with T1. 
Therefore tags and folders are not the same thing.
I use both folder and tags to structuring. 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

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2 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

To me the structure of EN built on Notes Notebooks Stacks is just a tree structure  with 3 levels (or 2 if you like to see the Notes as level 0) 

It is not a tree structure

Many users are trying to emulate the the file folder structure used in the computer operating systems, or physical filing cabinets.  IMO That emulation is more suitable to tags than notebooks.

>>Nesting tags is possible in EN to several levels.  But it is not a true tree structure.
That is correct, although a recent update in Windows makes the emulation more of a tree structure (hierarchical inheritance)

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I add to the plea for nested folders on stacks.  I have a stack for training, then general certification stuff, then my MCSA, Yes I have a tags in place, I could just start folders for each exam name under the training stack, Logic in the ADHD brain says tree structure - training should be geek and non geek.  I would rather have training --> MCSA server --> 70-410, 70-411 and 70-412.  Then have training --> MCSE server/cloud --> 70-413, 70-414, 70-246 and 70-247.  Then I could comfortably add other training aka ITIL and product training for work.  Tags are useful, but when you want just certain info in a single spot w/o a lot of searching.  

You could compare this to onenote Stack is the actual file, folders are top tabs, what I want is the useful side tabs aka chapters in the book.  at work I have generic tabs at top and then the tabs on side are for single key points aka product points.  for my studying I have an MCSE/MSCA Note book -aka stack, I have tabs each exam and general ones too, then on the right I have pages for each chapter reading or training course.  Since Evernote helps me orginize my entire life I need the opportunity to have stuff a layer or two deeper.  I would also love to see the ability to password protect single folders, such as a journal folder.  Tags are nice but many of us organize our lives around a tree structure,  Tags are great because you can use them across folders.    

 

That is just my opinion.  Thank you

 

Laura

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2 hours ago, Crochetgeek2010 said:

I would rather have training --> MCSA server --> 70-410, 70-411 and 70-412.  Then have training --> MCSE server/cloud --> 70-413, 70-414, 70-246 and 70-247.  Then I could comfortably add other training aka ITIL and product training for work.

Is this the hierarchical organization that you want?

EN-Win-6.7.1-Tag-Example.png

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On 14.5.2016 at 10:07 AM, magkcbw said:

Hi there.  Amazing product you have.  Unless I'm missing something, I would love to have the ability to nest multiple notebooks.  Like sub-notebooks

For example:

Notebook Stack:
     To-Do
           Work
                 Job1234
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
                 Job4321
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
          Home
                 To-Buy
                       Shoprite
                       Costco
                       Lowes
                 To-Fix
                       Kitchen
                       Master Bedroom

 

Thanks so much.  I couldn't live without evernote.  I use it on my phone, ipad, laptop, desktop.  Truly a terrific product.

Please... I need this, too... I work in Music Production, Graphic Design, Web Design and Photography -among others.

There's no system of tags (as it is actually) that can help me to get my notes properly organized. I just need the ability to nest multiple notebooks. If I would do that with tags, that would be a terrible mess (not to mention that I can't have two tags with the same name!) There is "Noise" in Music Production, and in Photography, too. There is "Composition" in Music, in Design, and in Photography. What can I do, name the tags "Composition Music", "Composition Photography"? No, I won't, because that will make me loose a lot of time.

I need nested notebooks in unlimited levels, or at least five levels, or ten.
OR: The ability to color-code tags, so that I can have two or three "Composition" tags (one red for Photography, one blue for Design, ...)

I hope you can understand what I mean... There are people who just need a Notebook for Math, one for Geography, one for Chemistry... But there are many other people who need deeper, much deeper levels of Organization. Thanks.

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Moved to the feedback forum to be better addressed as a feature request.

Please indicate your support for this request using the voting buttons in the upper left corner  Screen Shot 2016-06-21 at 7.30.47 AM.png

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2 hours ago, Moolzel said:

Please... I need this, too... I work in Music Production, Graphic Design, Web Design and Photography -among others.

There's no system of tags (as it is actually) that can help me to get my notes properly organized. I just need the ability to nest multiple notebooks. If I would do that with tags, that would be a terrible mess (not to mention that I can't have two tags with the same name!) There is "Noise" in Music Production, and in Photography, too. There is "Composition" in Music, in Design, and in Photography. What can I do, name the tags "Composition Music", "Composition Photography"? No, I won't, because that will make me loose a lot of time.

I need nested notebooks in unlimited levels, or at least five levels, or ten.
OR: The ability to color-code tags, so that I can have two or three "Composition" tags (one red for Photography, one blue for Design, ...)

I hope you can understand what I mean... There are people who just need a Notebook for Math, one for Geography, one for Chemistry... But there are many other people who need deeper, much deeper levels of Organization. Thanks.

You can't have two notebooks with the same name either. Notebooks are not in any way like folders on a PC.

Since v6, tags will be added automatically to a new note if the desired tag is selected (just like if you create a note in a notebook). Therefore the only big sorting issue that separated the two earlier, is no longer an issue. Color coding tags is possible as well. 

PS. People need to stop "confusing" notebooks with folders. Like I have written before. When was the last time you put a physical notebook within another physical notebook? It makes no sense.

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3 hours ago, Moolzel said:

There's no system of tags (as it is actually) that can help me to get my notes properly organized

I don't understand that statement.  Have you really looked into using tags?

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3 hours ago, Moolzel said:

There's no system of tags (as it is actually) that can help me to get my notes properly organized.

Use the same structure for tags as you would for notebooks.  And as previously stated, can't have duplicate names - notebooks or tags, may have to do some prefixing.  Or make the top two levels be your stacks and notebooks and tag the rest.  If your are using the windows version the recently introduced tag inheritance might be a benefit.

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TL;DR: +1 for this request (I'm willing to pay some more to have this feature)

I've read all the discussion above and completely agreed with everyone who need this feature. There are so much useful contexts to have multiple levels notebook including mine (I've been looking for this feature very long time).

In my humble opinion, and in my point of view and in my cases of use, I found TAG completely useless (for me). Yes it is useful, I may use it in other systems. But with Evernote, I've never used it, I always search my note by its title or the parent notebook, why? because 1.) I've already organize it to the right place (although not completely satisfied because of lacking of this feature); and 2.) If using tag, I have another organizing system in my head to remember (actually I've tried to use it but since then, I completely delete all the tags in my Evernote, they don't fulfill my cases of use)

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12 hours ago, kingtrn said:

In my humble opinion, and in my point of view and in my cases of use, I found TAG completely useless (for me). Yes it is useful, I may use it in other systems. But with Evernote, I've never used it, I always search my note by its title or the parent notebook, why? because 1.) I've already organize it to the right place (although not completely satisfied because of lacking of this feature); and 2.) If using tag, I have another organizing system in my head to remember (actually I've tried to use it but since then, I completely delete all the tags in my Evernote, they don't fulfill my cases of use)

That is really sad.
 Supposing instead of TAG, it was called FOLDER.  
Would you consider using it then?

Note - This works for the Windows/Mac Tag Hierarchies.  On my iPad, there is no hierarchy and the Tag<>Folder analogy fails

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11 hours ago, kingtrn said:

I always search my note by its title or the parent notebook, why? because 1.) I've already organize it to the right place

Funny thing, I use tags for just the opposite reason, I don't want to have to remember where I put the note, which is why i use EN in the first place.  I can see why some would like deeper nesting of notebooks, just not for me.

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14 hours ago, kingtrn said:

TL;DR: +1 for this request (I'm willing to pay some more to have this feature)

I've read all the discussion above and completely agreed with everyone who need this feature. There are so much useful contexts to have multiple levels notebook including mine (I've been looking for this feature very long time).

In my humble opinion, and in my point of view and in my cases of use, I found TAG completely useless (for me). Yes it is useful, I may use it in other systems. But with Evernote, I've never used it, I always search my note by its title or the parent notebook, why? because 1.) I've already organize it to the right place (although not completely satisfied because of lacking of this feature); and 2.) If using tag, I have another organizing system in my head to remember (actually I've tried to use it but since then, I completely delete all the tags in my Evernote, they don't fulfill my cases of use)

It sounds to me like you are comparing tags in Evernote with tags in other software, which is unfair since I have yet to come across any other software which has implemented tags in any way similar to the way Evernote does.

The most fair description of tags in Evernote would be "Folders on a PC, except you can also place the same file in more than one folder".

However to mirror folders on a PC you now have to uncheck "automatically select child tags" in options in v6, as this new function makes Evernote behave more similar to how other software uses tags (like labels for filtering).

Take OPs post as an example.

Notebook Stack:
     To-Do
           Work
                 Job1234
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
                 Job4321
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
          Home
                 To-Buy
                       Shoprite
                       Costco
                       Lowes
                 To-Fix
                       Kitchen
                       Master Bedroom

 

This can be solved in many ways but the most easy way would be the following:

1. Have only ONE notebook called "My notes".

2. Create and drag and drop tags in a nest just like above. Done.

Now say I am fixing the kitchen and for that I have to buy a sink. I find a sink online on the Costco website and I clip it. If I am using a folder on a pc or a notebook to store it in, i would be forced to chose between putting the file in Costco under To-buy or in Kitchen under To-fix.

With tags, I put it in both. Now if i want to find it again later, i just navigate the tag nest/tag tree...

And since v6 you don't even have to type the first tag when creating a new note, if it already exists. You just navigate and click the desired tag in the nest and then click new note. The note will then automatically be placed under that tag (like creating a new file in a folder, or a new file in a notebook).

As a side note Evernote is also limited to 250 notebooks, but I have 11.000 tags..

 

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19 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

11.000 tags

Wow.  And I thought I had a lot with 400!  ;)

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4 hours ago, csihilling said:

Wow.  And I thought I had a lot with 400!  ;)

Well, my system is not for everyone that is for sure. :) 

The main reason for why the number is so large is that a lot of my tags are a description of a single note/just a couple of notes, in a complete sentence, which makes tag search work partly like seach suggestions on google, only personalised.

 

Not that this is the best example, but let me give a fictive example:

Say I have a note about the movie Se7en. I might tag it with "Movies" "Thriller" "Scary" "Morgan Freeman" "Brad Pitt" and "Deadly sins"

My tags would be nested like:

Movies
      Actors(empty tag just for sorting)
                Brad Pitt
                Morgan Freeman
      Movie genres(empty tag just for sorting)
                Thriller
Topics(empty tag just for sorting)
      Deadly sins
Emotion(empty tag just for sorting)
      Scary

 

But I might also IN ADDITION to those tags, tag it with

"Se7en - Great movie and scary thriller about deadly sins starring Brad Pitt & Morgan Freeman".

In that way I have myself decided that those are the values i consider extra important for that movie/note. Now if I am in the mood for a scary movie, and do a tag search for "scary" - the whole description for Se7en will show up among the tag suggestions.

So why put this description in a tag and not in the note body? Because then that note about Se7en will compete with 200 other notes that are clipped reviews of different movies where the reviewer thought the movie was "scary" (which I may not agree with at all) or "NOT scary" which will still be displayed in the search results. The search result will also show a note containing an interview with a hockey player, that in one of his irrelevant answers mention a scary cat he saw once..

So why not put it in the note title instead and search intitle:? Because if I then were to clip a note called "10 best thrillers of all time", I can still tag it with "Se7en - Great movie and scary thriller about deadly sins starring Brad Pitt & Morgan Freeman" along with a new tag called "Memento - Great movie and weird thriller that deals with amnesia starring Guy Pearce".

 

 

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24 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

Well, my system is not for everyone

That's for sure :).  I would start with the keyword "movie" and go from there :D.  I don't have the discipline to pull that level of tagging off for the long term, but I do admire those that use very structured tagging methods.  It is always interesting to me to see how others use the service.

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@gustavgi

Thanks for explanation.  I see how it works for you, which is a good lesson for anyone reading the thread.  It has to be a special tag to still exist for me if it has less than 10 notes using it.

Totally off topic, I like the two movie examples, how would you tag Blade Runner?

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24 minutes ago, csihilling said:

@gustavgi

Thanks for explanation.  I see how it works for you, which is a good lesson for anyone reading the thread.  It has to be a special tag to still exist for me if it has less than 10 notes using it.

Totally off topic, I like the two movie examples, how would you tag Blade Runner?

"Great movie and sci-fi noir thriller where Harrison Ford probably is a robot" ;)

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2 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

"Great movie and sci-fi noir thriller where Harrison Ford probably is a robot" ;)

:D

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why do most of you just troll those of us that like nesting more notebooks?? tags might work great for you and that's cool... i'm glad you like it... but your way doesn't work for me!

Evernote PLEASE listen our request... this won't affect the "tag-fans" and will surely benefit the 

On 5/14/2016 at 11:24 AM, magkcbw said:

organization freaks

as @magkcbw, myself, and many more!!

 

On 6/12/2016 at 0:13 PM, Crochetgeek2010 said:

I add to the plea for nested folders on stacks

We have a tree-structured way of thinking and we prefer to work that way... 

Expecting to hear good news very soon...

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19 hours ago, guillermo_cb said:

why do most of you just troll those of us that like nesting more notebooks?? tags might work great for you and that's cool... i'm glad you like it... but your way doesn't work for me!

Evernote PLEASE listen our request... this won't affect the "tag-fans" and will surely benefit the 

It's not about trolling or being a fan of tags, but it's about the fact that the request to nest notebooks is basically a request to make notebooks into tags (in the way Evernote has implemented tags).

To give a dumb example, you are basically asking the creator of floppy disks to create a floppy disk with 4,7 gig storage because you prefer floppy disks instead of DVDs.

One of the main problems with making nesting of notebooks possible today, is that you also have a limitation of 250 notebooks and you can't give two notebooks the same name. As a lot of new EN users don't know that there is a 250 notebook limit, I'm pretty sure that EN would receive a lot of complaints from users that start to create a notebook nest system they like, and then would suddenly get the message that you are not allowed to create anymore notebooks at 250.

The funny thing as well is that Evernote notebooks has more in common with tags in other software, than Evernote tags themselves.

 

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On June 24, 2016 at 4:38 PM, guillermo_cb said:

why do most of you just troll those of us that like nesting more notebooks??

I thought it as offering a solution for users looking for an organization hierarchy

but then, I'm not one of the ???

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On 6/25/2016 at 2:15 PM, gustavgi said:

it's about the fact that the request to nest notebooks is basically a request to make notebooks into tags (in the way Evernote has implemented tags).

Perhaps from your point of view, but I suspect not from that of many others, including the OP and @guillermo_cb.  I would guess they are *requesting* that Evernote Notebooks to work like Mac and Windows folders.

On 6/25/2016 at 2:15 PM, gustavgi said:

To give a dumb example, you are basically asking the creator of floppy disks to create a floppy disk with 4,7 gig storage because you prefer floppy disks instead of DVDs.

Well, you said it, it is a "dumb" example, and is not analogous at all to asking for more full featured Notebook capability.

On 6/25/2016 at 2:15 PM, gustavgi said:

One of the main problems with making nesting of notebooks possible today, is that you also have a limitation of 250 notebooks and you can't give two notebooks the same name.

There are numerous changes that would have to be made in concert with providing hierarchical Notebooks, so I don't see the issue here.

On 6/25/2016 at 2:15 PM, gustavgi said:

The funny thing as well is that Evernote notebooks has more in common with tags in other software, than Evernote tags themselves.

That doesn't make any sense to me.  Tags, in all apps I know of, including lots of blogs, are designed to cut across the main structure of the app/web site, and to allow multiple tags per topic.  This forum is a great example.  Each topic can belong to only one sub-forum, but multiple tags can be assigned to the same topic, and the same tag can be assigned to topics in multiple sub-forums.  As we all know, each EN Note can belong to one, and only one, Notebooks, just like files and folders.

BTW, my statements have nothing to do with my preference to use tags or notebooks.  As some of you may know, earlier in the year I reorganized my Evernote account to primarily use tags, which I call "pseudo Notebooks".  But it was not because I wanted to, it was because I had to due to the way Evernote has highly constrained the use of Notebooks.

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2 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

That doesn't make any sense to me.  Tags, in all apps I know of, including lots of blogs, are designed to cut across the main structure of the app/web site, and to allow multiple tags per topic.  This forum is a great example.  Each topic can belong to only one sub-forum, but multiple tags can be assigned to the same topic, and the same tag can be assigned to topics in multiple sub-forums.  As we all know, each EN Note can belong to one, and only one, Notebooks, just like files and folders.

BTW, my statements have nothing to do with my preference to use tags or notebooks.  As some of you may know, earlier in the year I reorganized my Evernote account to primarily use tags, which I call "pseudo Notebooks".  But it was not because I wanted to, it was because I had to due to the way Evernote has highly constrained the use of Notebooks.

What I meant was that tags in most other software, including this forum, are used only as a keyword to help identify the content that has been tagged and to make collections. The latter is very much the purpose of EN notebooks as the software is today, where you are not allowed to have more than 250 collections/notebooks (a physical notebook is a collection of notes).

Outside of EN they also have a flat structure where every tag has the same visual value, and if you are lucky they will be somewhere sorted in an non-hierarchical alphabetical list similar to EN notebooks or maybe displayed in a tag cloud.

In EN they have been given a locational and navigational function. A tag can be a child-tag to a parent-tag, like a folder can be sub-folder inside another folder. And like folders (and unlike other software where hierarchical tags have been implemented) you can have a file tagged with a child-tag without it also showing up in the parent-tag.

And depending on how picky you are, one could easily say that the first tag a EN note is tagged with is the "actual location" of the note, while the other tags represent Windows folders where you have placed a file-shortcut to the text-file. In EN, there is no similar way to place a shortcut to a file in a different notebook, inside another notebook.

Either way, I will always have a hard time to see why it would be a negative thing to have an OPTION, to also put a note inside more than one location.

 

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6 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

What I meant was that tags in most other software, including this forum, are used only as a keyword to help identify the content that has been tagged and to make collections. The latter is very much the purpose of EN notebooks as the software is today where you are not allowed to have more than 250 collections/notebooks (a physical notebook is a collection of notes).

Given your view of Notebooks, I now understand your confusion between Notebooks and Tags.

Each person can, of course, use the tools that Evernote provides in whatever way makes sense to that person.

But if Evernote provided Notebooks that fully modeled computer folders, then I would organize my notes in a very different way.  Below is a very, very simple, incomplete example, just to illustrate the fundamental difference between Notebooks and Tags:

  1. Notebooks would be broad categories of Notes, with the category (Notebook) being the primary category
  2. Sub-notebooks would work just like subfolders, organizing the info, and breaking it down into subcategories
    1. For example, I would file insurance documents in the Notebook the insurance was for, like Home, Auto, Boat (probably in the sub-notebooks for that thing, e.g. "Jeep 2014", or "House Houston", etc)
    2. Since we could have duplicate notebook names with different parents, I would have the same set of sub-notebooks for each Auto, so I would probably have a subnotebook named "Insurance"
  3. Tags would be use for cross-cutting categories, where a category might be useful in multiple Notebooks.
    1. For example, I would have an "Insurance" tag that allows me to pull all of my insurance documents regardless of its notebook -- or at least that is how I'm doing it now
    2. If Notebooks could have subnotbooks with the same name, then maybe I don't need an "Insurance" tag, IF I can just as easily search for all folders named "Insurance".  But for this to be useful, I'd need a results display that also showed the parent Notebook, or maybe the whole path.
    3. I would have tags for Locations, People, etc
  4. Tags would also be used for utility purposes, for things like "Favorite".

So notebooks would be great for browsing, and for viewing by drill-down of all notes for a particular sub-notebook.  For example, I can go to my "Jeep 2014" Notebook to see everything associated with it, including all of its subfolders.

Tags are great when you have a good idea of the keywords for the subject of interest.
Notebooks are much better than tag when you can remember the material, or would just like to browse, kinda like paging through an old scrapbook you made as a kid, or one your grandmother made that you never knew about.

Finally, Notebooks are far superior for things that have a natural hierarchy, like Projects > Sub-Projects > Tasks > Sub-tasks

Let me remind the reader again, all of this is a very, very big IF.  It is theoretical.   It is how I would organize IF we had full featured Notebooks.  But alas, we don't, so I have to resort to using tags as best I can to model Notebooks.  Don't bother to tell me that I can to most everything with tags.  I already know that, and have done that.  But tags and full featured Notebooks are not the same.

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27 minutes ago, JMichaelTX said:

But if Evernote provided Notebooks that fully modeled computer folders, then I would organize my notes in a very different way.  

I have the opposite view; but whatever works for you
I happily left the computer folder model years ago, and never looked back.

Even if Evernote opened notebooks for hierarchy;
I would still only use notebooks for their feature of default/sync/local/offline/share 

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8 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I have the opposite view.

And that is fine.  As often stated in these forums, use what works best for you.

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1 hour ago, JMichaelTX said:

Given your view of Notebooks, I now understand your confusion between Notebooks and Tags.

It's all about perspective I guess.

I see notebooks for what they are, both in the context of EN as well as the physical notebooks they derive from (which are never "nested"). You are saying I'm confused about the difference, when it looks to me like it's you who either wish for or have already made up your mind that EN notebooks are something that they are not, by both ignoring the skeuomorph and the actual implementation.

But like all feature requests, it's a fair request to ask for the replacement of notebooks in favor of a OS folder system. But at the same time I do think it's reasonable to reflect on how likely it is that EN would lift the 250 notebook limit, the ability to nest and the restriction of identical names, while trying to guide frustrated users who think that the pros of folders can't be met with tags (except that two tags can't have the same name just as notebooks).

I also want to mention again that the most important step tags made towards being equal with windows folders was the implementation of automatic tagging of the tag selected, when creating a new note. This mirrors the behavior that when you have opened a folder and create a new note, the note will be placed in that folder. Prior to v6, you had to add the tag manually. Now you can navigate among the nested tags and then create your note.

 

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4 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

I see notebooks for what they are

I would suggest a better wording would be "as you perceive them to be".  This is after all, a feature request, so it is only natural and expected that the requester is asking for something different.

7 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

I do think it's reasonable to reflect on how likely it is that EN would lift the 250 notebook limit, the ability to nest and the restriction of identical names,

I don't think any of us is qualified to provide a reliable projection of what Evernote will or won't do.
Very recently, Evernote made a major change in EN Win as to how tags work, which I think was a big surprise to many people.

I think the issue the requesters perceive is that every time this request is made, people like you repeatedly come out and try to tell them what is wrong with their request, and that they should change to the way you are doing it.

This gets old very fast.

Why not just present your approach, without being critical of the request, as an alternative/workaround until/if Evernote implements the request?

15 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

it looks to me like it's you who either wish for or have already made up your mind that EN notebooks are something that they are not

If you read all of my prior post, then you would realize that I am clear on the limitations of the current Notebook design, and have already developed my own workaround to these limitations.  But yes, I would prefer that Evernote provide Notebooks modeled after folders.

18 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

the physical notebooks they derive from (which are never "nested")

Actually, physical notebooks are "nested" all the time -- the "sub-notebooks" are called "dividers".
But the physical notebook metaphor is irrelevant once we get beyond the concept of a collection of notes.

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28 minutes ago, JMichaelTX said:

I think the issue the requesters perceive is that every time this request is made, people like you repeatedly come out and try to tell them what is wrong with their request, and that they should change to the way you are doing it.

This gets old very fast.

Why not just present your approach, without being critical of the request, as an alternative/workaround until/if Evernote implements the request?

Like I wrote, the request regarding a change of the way notebooks work is totally fair, and I have not told anyone that they are wrong about their request. However I do get the impression that most of the requesters do seem to have a wrong idea about what tags are for, and at that point it is natural to discuss difference in functionality.

I also think I have yet to see an answer to why tags isn't working for them, as the standard answer is usually more along the lines like "I just don't like tags".

28 minutes ago, JMichaelTX said:

Actually, physical notebooks are "nested" all the time -- the "sub-notebooks" are called "dividers".

Yeah, and the borders of those individual "divider" pages, where there usually is some room for writing and that often has some color, are called tags (and/or tabs).

Edited by gustavgi

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10 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

Yeah, and the borders of those individual "divider" pages, where there usually is some room for writing and that often has some color, are called tags (and/or tabs).

I've never heard them called anything by "tabs".  Even if the term "tags" was used, it would be in a totally different context.
The point is notebooks are subdivided all the time, regardless of what you call the divider.  So, in that context, physical notebooks are nested.

I think the point you are missing is that tags generally are not thought of as containers, but as a means to search across a lot of documents regardless of what container they are stored in.  Whereas notebooks and folders are clearly containers.  Evernote has blurred the line a bit, first with hierarchical tags, and now with the EN Win option to include child tags when the parent tag is used in a search.  But that is still not as solid as full-featured notebooks would be.

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Since the "official line" here at EN seems to be "tags rule" and "stackable folders suck" I don't really expect this comment to persist. But, why is this an either/or issue? EN CAN offer both... and they should. People have made it obvious they would pay for this. As I would have. I won't now, of course. There are options out there that already offer this.

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On June 27, 2016 at 5:35 AM, lastevns said:

Since the "official line" here at EN seems to be "tags rule" and "stackable folders suck" I don't really expect this comment to persist. But, why is this an either/or issue? EN CAN offer both... and they should. People have made it obvious they would pay for this. As I would have. I won't now, of course. There are options out there that already offer this.

My understanding of the "official line" at Evernote is
- if you want default/sync/local/offline/shared, there is a notebook feature
- a tag feature has been provided as a further organization tool
- the folder model is not a feature; there's only stacks, notebooks, and tags
   I hink this model was rejected from the very beginning
- the software is free

>>tags rule
I'm not sure why you say this, although I do know that a tag hierarchy feature does exist on some platforms

>>There are options out there that already offer this.
Can you provide more details on this.  Actually most of the operating systems provide "stackable folders" as their native file organization

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Thanks for your posts guys, and separate thanks to  JMichaelTX for giving nice detalization of your idea with tags with illustrated examples!!

I have tested your suggested idea a bit creating sample 2 braches of 3 level depth tags and assigning them to notes

What i can say  - on my opinion it solves some part of "problem" indeed,

The search text box for tags helps in this, what i mean is 

If you have such tags hierarchy

  • Home
    •  Home.furniture
      • , Home.furniture.table
  • Office
    •  Office.furniture
      •  Office.furniture.table

And then you process some note which by some means relates to your office table and home table :)

  • Then your note will have all 6 tags 
  • Your note can be found if you go to tag search and enter text 'table' - tag search will smartly recognize this word in both "Home.furniture.table" and "Office.furniture.table" and outputs  both those tags

It solves the problem though you will pay for it:

  • The most low level tags will be very long named - not too user friendly + will take time to pick them when you have big tree of tags
  • Each particular note in most cases will contain very many tags, and remember each tag is pretty long named
  • As mentioned by Flier   - this approach (EN team pushes us to use it) is workaround and breaks logical way of things most people stick to, the user should have small pack of simple tags and nicely structured hierarchy of his notes, not vice versa!   

I have 'book case' and on first 'shelve' i have section regarding 'world war 2' in which i have 'machinery' book with section regarding 'tanks' which is marked as 'Tanks' in book glossary, i dont have one giant book with all human knowledge and really long named glossary! En team what do you smoke? :)

And if seriously if your ideology  is "we care only about notebooks and notes and EN is quick thing to put a quick note, other things are out of scope" - what can we say? we can not argue with that, each finds its own solution

For now i will try approach suggested by JMichaelTX s for some time but by the look of things will eventually use 2 levels of notebooks untill spot some alternative

Cheers guys.

 

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2 hours ago, qwebek said:

Thanks for your posts guys, and separate thanks to  JMichaelTX for giving nice detalization of your idea with tags with illustrated examples!!

I have tested your suggested idea a bit creating sample 2 braches of 3 level depth tags and assigning them to notes

What i can say  - on my opinion it solves some part of "problem" indeed,

The search text box for tags helps in this, what i mean is 

If you have such tags hierarchy

  • Home
    •  Home.furniture
      • , Home.furniture.table
  • Office
    •  Office.furniture
      •  Office.furniture.table

And then you process some note which by some means relates to your office table and home table :)

  • Then your note will have all 6 tags 
  • Your note can be found if you go to tag search and enter text 'table' - tag search will smartly recognize this word in both "Home.furniture.table" and "Office.furniture.table" and outputs  both those tags

It solves the problem though you will pay for it:

  • The most low level tags will be very long named - not too user friendly + will take time to pick them when you have big tree of tags
  • Each particular note in most cases will contain very many tags, and remember each tag is pretty long named
  • As mentioned by Flier   - this approach (EN team pushes us to use it) is workaround and breaks logical way of things most people stick to, the user should have small pack of simple tags and nicely structured hierarchy of his notes, not vice versa!   

I have 'book case' and on first 'shelve' i have section regarding 'world war 2' in which i have 'machinery' book with section regarding 'tanks' which is marked as 'Tanks' in book glossary, i dont have one giant book with all human knowledge and really long named glossary! En team what do you smoke? :)

And if seriously if your ideology  is "we care only about notebooks and notes and EN is quick thing to put a quick note, other things are out of scope" - what can we say? we can not argue with that, each finds its own solution

For now i will try approach suggested by JMichaelTX s for some time but by the look of things will eventually use 2 levels of notebooks untill spot some alternative

Cheers guys.

 

Let me make a suggestion here, based on the idea that tags are not inherently hierarchical (you you can organize them like that in Evernote if you want), much like words in a language are not inherently hierarchical. Consider that in the English language, for one, the same word can mean different things in different contexts; say for example, the word 'can': it can be a noun, a verb, or a verbal auxiliary. It all depends on the context, and native English speakers rarely get confused (English is rife with examples of words with multiple meanings, particularly since it tends towards being less inflected than more). Now consider that tags can be used as a descriptive vocabulary, rather than a hierarchy, where a tag can mean a different attribute or adjective in different contexts. Let's take your examples:

  • Home
    •  Home.furniture
      • , Home.furniture.table
  • Office
    •  Office.furniture
      •  Office.furniture.table

I would do something like the following. Define four tags: Home, Office, furniture, and table. Then, when I get a new table for my home, I tag it with Home, furniture, and table. Now it's easy to find all furniture via search (search for tag:furniture), or all tables (search for tag:table), as well as all furniture in your home (search for tag:home tag:furniture). Notice that we do this all the time in our everyday use of language: we say "Hey, I just got a new table for my home", we don't say "Hey, I just got a new Home.furniture for my Home; it's a Home.furniture.table" (well, maybe they do in other languages, but I'm an English speaker writing in English, so...). We provide context for understanding what we say by combining simple attributes.

On the other hand, if you're addicted to traversing deep hierarchies to find your stuff, then tags are probably going to be more cumbersome than a true hierarchical storage system (which, by the way doesn't work so well for categorizing human knowledge, at least in my experience, but that's a topic for another day), and Evernote as it stands today may not be best suited for your needs.

Something for you to ponder...

 

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On 4/4/2016 at 9:06 PM, Flier said:

I'm not going to get into an extended debate here but I will tell you what I have learned during a career in engineering and computing:  Bad tools are bad.  They are bad even if one can figure out how to use them via workarounds.  True craftsmen never use such tools willingly and, if they must use them in a limited way, they do not accept them as anything but an interim necessity while waiting for the better tool.  Poor craftsmen, OTOH, accept poor tools without even understanding what they are doing.

Wow, this is so contrary to what I understand about tools and craftsmanship, it's hard to know where to begin. With respect to tools, tools typically have a designed use; sometimes tools are good for that use, and sometimes they're not so good. And sometimes they can be good for other uses, and sometimes not. But it's safe to say that the designer has an intended use for a tool that they produce.

Often, if you use a tool for what it's not intended to do, you will not produce a good result. With respect to Evernote, it has a simple design for organizing and sharing notes (which are the fundamental units here). Notebooks offer a simple partitioning of your notes database, and are one of the two fundamental units of note sharing, along with notes themselves. On the other hand, tags are just labels that we can apply to notes, and they comprise a way of building up a vocabulary for describing notes in your database. A simple design that has analogues in the real world, not to mention one that's very similar to the organizational scheme used by GMail.

This tool, Evernote, has proven useful to a fair number of people over time; I find that it has a natural design for my uses, and is in no way a workaround for anything. For example, I don't miss nested hierarchies in the least in Evernote; my use of notebooks mainly tends to model my need to share them. So while you may think it's a bad tool, I believe that it's just bad for your intended use, but that doesn't make it objectively bad. And if it's bad for your intended use, it's most likely not the tool for you.

On the subject of craftsmanship, I would say that true craftsmen tend to not use tools for purposes for which they're not intended. A true craftsman would probably not drive a nail with a screwdriver, no matter how perfectly designed that screwdriver was for driving screws (i.e., a good tool, but just not for driving nails). There are exceptions to this, of course: a great guitarist, say, Leo Kottke is going to sound a whole lot better on a bad guitar than you or I on the most exquisite guitar. Great artistry can overcome poor tools, but that's in the realm of outliers.

But overall, Evernote is not an intrinsically bad tool. It's great for some things, and not great at others, mainly because of its design philosophy.

We the cave men (and women) will not be holding our collective breath for your return; we'll just continue on happily using a tool that works for us.

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On 4/23/2016 at 5:22 AM, CreativeSoul said:

Thank you all for your interesting and creative work-arounds. I think table of contents or the workaround with the tags are useful, but I don't know whether I could integrate them into my workflow in EN after 2 years. I barely use tags (i don't feel comfortable with them). Anyways thanks again for your help, I hope that the EN-Team will think about this feature again! Does somebody know, why Evernote is not implementing this feature? 

 

 

I can certainly understand a disdain for tags, I've seen Firefox destroyed because of tags and a misunderstanding on the part of Firefox developers that keywords were the same as tags. 

If I used tags almost all my notes would have useless tags.   I make sure that important words are in the Title or at least in the text.  I might also point out that in web pages if you have keywords (tags in Evernote context) that are not in the content the Google search extracts a penalty, so if you were to extend the same principle to Evernote -- it should be in the content and would be found anyway. I can't imagine it working faster if I used tags instead of actual words in content.

I also rearrange words in the title so most important word is first, so an alphabetical sort of titles works well when sorted as such.  Though I normally use the default -- updated in descending order.   A rule of thumb can be to take the original title, place the most important word first followed by remaining words,  comma, then the beginning words (the comma indicates a break in arrangement).  Anybody familiar with KWIC indexes would recognize the pattern.   Actually I see KWOC, which I never heard the term before is more what I am referring to.

I never heard of KWOC before but I guess it is closer to what I mean -- KWIC / KWAC / KWOC.    Also see Key Word in Context - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With embedding folders within folders in Evernote there would be three problems.

1) You have a specification limit of 250 folders total.  When I discovered that and that I only had 100 more to go, I virtually stopped making new folders unless they were going to be public. 

2) You can only use a folder name once so you cannot use as a folder name within two stacks, nor would you be able to if you could within two different folders.

3) If you make a folder public you specify that folder name in the url, for instance http://www.evernote.com/pub/dmcritchie/foldername1   (l have no such folder)  But that means to me that it would be difficult to have a structure of folders within folders.

Of course Evernote uses the term notebook instead of folder.

Interesting point raised that folders may in fact be a tag in database. For a search of a folder you must place the folder at the beginning of the search and you can't for instance restrict to two or more folders, you have a choice search one folder or all folders.       

notebook:folder1  Evernote feature request

 

 

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11 minutes ago, dmcritchie said:

I make sure that important words are in the Title or at least in the text.

Do you have a master list of these keywords?  I like having the taglist to chose from.

>>I virtually stopped making new folders unless they were going to be public. 

That's my reason for using notebooks, to identify notes as syncd/local/offline/shared

It does bring up an interesting point.  Would a sub-notebook of a Local notebook also be expected to be Local?

 

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On 4/24/2016 at 9:07 AM, DTLow said:

To all you notebook and folder people
I'm sorry to break this to you - for digital filing, there are no REAL notebooks or folders.

I'm not sure why you continue to repeat something that is incorrect.

In the digital world of Evernote (and some other apps), "Notebooks" are real.  They are not labels, they are containers which contain zero or more Notes.

On 4/24/2016 at 9:07 AM, DTLow said:

These are just labels assigned to a note.

These labels go by various names: Notebook, folder, tag, keyword etc.
But the truth is - they are just labels

If there is anything that is not real in the Evernote digital world, it would be "labels".  Evernote does NOT any entity or property called "label".

So if you are trying to state the "truth", then you are far from it.

I have no idea what your point is, or why you keep slamming users who would like to have a more capable Notebook feature in Evernote, that behaves much like Mac/PC folders (which are also containers).  It seems very natural to me that at least some users would like the "folder" feature in Evernote  since from the invention of PCs and Macs, we have had folders (also called "directories" early on).

May I remind you of the title of this topic:  "Feature Request: Notebooks within Notebooks".

The operative words here are "feature request", so why not allow users to make a request without berating them?  

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2 hours ago, DTLow said:
2 hours ago, dmcritchie said:

I make sure that important words are in the Title or at least in the text.

Do you have a master list of these keywords?  I like having the taglist to chose from.

 

I said I avoid using tags.   If I did they would be like  "Firefox",  "Evernote", "Photography" so would be rather useless if everything would be mostly those.  I make sure important words are added to title or text if they are not there an don't rely on or use tags.

For the part you quoted here is an example Actual title of an article was
"Video Lessons: Build your Site with Joomla 3"  which I keep in my note with the link, but my title in Evernote becomes:
"
Joomla, Video Lessons: Build Site"    with the most important word first and remainder shortened to fit in Snippet view for list of articles because the title line does not wrap.   The text of note is  to the article and reads:

Video Lessons: Build your Site with Joomla 3
:: Check out the Brian Teeman's Joomla video course on How to Build a Site. After you watch this video course you'll be able to create a fully-functional Joomla 3 website.
https://www.siteground.com/tutorials/joomla-video/build-joomla3-site/

followed by the outline of the videos (had to use No Style in Firefox or a bookmarklet to be able to extract).

The only use of tags I used was to select articles for presentations  with structured tags like  en-pr-2014, en-pr-2015 (didn't get that far), en-pr-clip, en-pr-link    all could be found in search with  tag:en-pr-* (and they aren't within the articles)   There was a problem perhaps they did not work in web view at time -- they do work now, for sure.

You can get a list of the tags you use under  View > Tags View (toggle). 

 

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10 minutes ago, dmcritchie said:

I said I avoid using tags.   If I did they would be like  "Firefox",  "Evernote", "Photography" so would be rather useless if everything would be mostly those.  I make sure important words are added to title or text if they are not there an don't rely on or use tags.

ok, instead of master list of keywords, do you keep a master list of the important words  that you add to the title or text

I'd like to make sure that my use was consistent so that a a search would be accurate.

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On 4/16/2016 at 9:08 AM, CreativeSoul said:

Sometimes I want to write long texts within Evernote (like Texts for a Blog or even a book), but I want to chop up the scenes in to different notes.

You might consider creating an Outline ahead of time then using that outline for titles beginning with those indexes (03._a)   leave some space in between for insertions.   Just a thought, I'm not that organized.  Someone posted a nice article of what they did but I could not find it.  Most people I think just start writing in Word or similar by Chapters, at least the formatting will be consistent.

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18 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

I'm not sure why you continue to repeat something that is incorrect.

In the digital world of Evernote (and some other apps), "Notebooks" are real.  They are not labels, they are containers which contain zero or more Notes.

Wow, you actually believe notebooks are real containers, which contain notes.
Thats more of a logical view than reality.  Note data is contained in a database table(s).

I know that Evernote uses the notebook field to identify notes that are syncd/local/offline/shared.  
I know some people try to use notebooks for organization, but get frustrated by the lack of hierarchy

>>If there is anything that is not real in the Evernote digital world, it would be "labels".  Evernote does NOT any entity or property called "label".  So if you are trying to state the "truth", then you are far from it

I never said Evernote used the term  "labels"  The EN terms are Stacks, Notebooks and Tags

>>I have no idea what your point is, or why you keep slamming users who would like to have a more capable Notebook feature in Evernote, that behaves much like Mac/PC folders (which are also containers
>> May I remind you of the title of this topic:  "Feature Request: Notebooks within Notebooks".  The operative words here are "feature request", so why not allow users to make a request without berating them?  

It's not so much as "slamming" or "berating"  as trying to present an alternative solution for users frustrated by the lack of hierarchy with notebooks. Like you did with the Pseudo Notebooks   you posted above (possibly more diplomatic than my postings)

Yes, this is a request for notebook hierarchy, and there are others, but to date Evernote has not indicated any plans to implement a hierarchy.  
We can wait it out, but I think an alternate solution is more realistic.

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Is it possible to have multiple levels of stacks?  For example, ideally, I will have a root stack named "Audio-Video", which contains stacks "Music" and "Photography".  And under "Music", I will have NoteBooks for each genre, e.g. "Jazz", "Classical", etc.  Can there be multiple layers of stacks?

I tried dragging my "Music" stack under "Audio-Video" and EverNote won't let me...

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4 hours ago, Gear$Head said:

Is it possible to have multiple levels of stacks?  

No, there are no multiple levels for stacks (or notebooks)

For a multi-level hierarchy, you would need to look at tags.

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Thanks DTLow & briancaldwell for suggesting hierarchy within Tags.  I have tried implementing it in the simple collection of notes that I have and it's working out so far.  Thanks again!

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