Evernote legacy ending on 2024-03-23

[PinkElephant 8,196]

Oh, this is a brilliant idea. I have heard someone who participates in a class action should remain silent in public places (like user forums).

Yes, go for it, a brillant idea 😎

[Cristiano478 158]

23 minutos atrás, ben353253 disse:

I've heard that end of Legacy has been delayed in perpetuity and that Evernote have agreed that the most sensible thing for their users and their pocket is to keep the API running.

 

End of Legacy postponed to March 26:

 

[s2sailor 2,258]

Note to self - change start of vacation from March 23 to March 26.

[Boot17 1,473]

 

[s2sailor 2,258]

6 minutes ago, fuchsfr said:

All I want is the part of the subscription that I paid for, that I will be unable to use after the end of Legacy.
I just want to know if anyone else thinks that's a fair position. 

I think the problem that you may run up against is that Legacy was declared ended several years ago and that you have kept on renewing is on you, but reach out to support.  Maybe they will surprise us.

[FredJ 36]

18 hours ago, MDA13 said:

i've tried Notion, same en10 problems - fat and slow.
now i'm trying the Obsidian, it looks much much better, than Notion and EN10 

Thanks, it looks like I might need to JUMP SHIP... lets hope EN has a last minute change of heart!!

 

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,979]

3 hours ago, fuchsfr said:

Thanks for the sarcasm,

Actually it's real easy to prove deprecation.  It's not a grey area.  It either does what the early version does or does not.  As an industry insider I am really aware of deprecation.

All I want is the part of the subscription that I paid for, that I will be unable to use after the end of Legacy.
I just want to know if anyone else thinks that's a fair position. 

I don't think it's fair, but that's not news. Part of my point was that v. 10 does things that Legacy never did. Does being forced to have backlinks available (to take a fairly noncontroversial example, I hope) also count as deprecation? Or should the value of backlinks be subtracted from what is owed to you for not being able to sort as before?

More to the point, can you prove in court, before a judge and jury, that you are unable to use v. 10, as opposed to being inconvenienced by having to use it? To take a more trivial example, should a newspaper be sued because they cease carrying a particular columnist or comic strip during the course of people's subscriptions? (I actually think this may have been tried in the U.S. I may be wrong, but you might want to look for it to see if it worked.)

All right, I've had my say on this. To me it's not worth continuing to talk about, and I will let you carry on the discussion with those who are really interested.

[PinkElephant 8,196]

Who is still on legacy has decided to stick with software that was deprecated more than 3 years ago.

Anybody who is subscribed today has decided several times to renew his subscription, knowing that the only supported version at the moment of subscribing again was v10. This was already public knowledge for anybody subscribing in 2021, and in 2022 when he renewed, and in 2023 when he renewed again.

That is part 1 of the story. All victims, I know, of evil corporate marketing voodoo that made them renew 3 times, even when knowing they will use the unsupported part of the service.

Part 2 of the story is the fact anybody can keep his legacy client as long as he wishes for, and use it local only. It is just the access to the cloud server that is removed, for security reasons. 

But sure, class actions are made to force companies to put all users data at risk just to shield the procrastination of a few ***** (fill in the stars, but think about something NICE when you do).

[CalS 5,284]

Comes back to BS/EN not setting a date certain as to sunsetting legacy.  It left a crack.  Anyone who has a remainder of sub left could feel they were shortchanged.  Logically anyway.

Not saying  a law suit makes any sense.  Not saying whining about it makes any sense.,  Not saying hanging on to the hope of Legacy lasting forever.  Just saying not having hard knowledge of this year you are signing up for is not a full year is valid.  I have no sympathy, but I understand the point.

[Pavel Sapehin 41]

7 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Who is still on legacy has decided to stick with software that was deprecated more than 3 years ago.

Anybody who is subscribed today has decided several times to renew his subscription, knowing that the only supported version at the moment of subscribing again was v10. This was already public knowledge for anybody subscribing in 2021, and in 2022 when he renewed, and in 2023 when he renewed again.

That is part 1 of the story. All victims, I know, of evil corporate marketing voodoo that made them renew 3 times, even when knowing they will use the unsupported part of the service.

Part 2 of the story is the fact anybody can keep his legacy client as long as he wishes for, and use it local only. It is just the access to the cloud server that is removed, for security reasons. 

But sure, class actions are made to force companies to put all users data at risk just to shield the procrastination of a few ***** (fill in the stars, but think about something NICE when you do).

 

9 minutes ago, CalS said:

Comes back to BS/EN not setting a date certain as to sunsetting legacy.  It left a crack.  Anyone who has a remainder of sub left could feel they were shortchanged.  Logically anyway.

Not saying  a law suit makes any sense.  Not saying whining about it makes any sense.,  Not saying hanging on to the hope of Legacy lasting forever.  Just saying not having hard knowledge of this year you are signing up for is not a full year is valid.  I have no sympathy, but I understand the point.

What is the point of telling people who sticked to Legacy to stop using it? Why just not let people here to rumble about what they don't like? What is here for people who decided to move with the latest version?

Anyway, if there is no future for legacy as you say, why not just open source legacy clients? People could made it compatible with the latest API in days. BS may focus on their API and it's security (as they said that security is the most critical issue for them), and people who still want to use legacy will be able to do so.

[thunderblade 0]

@agsteele

Hi,

Could you please tell where you got the Android app compatibility information (Android 9, as you mentioned)?

I can't seem to find any official consistent source for this.

For example, on this page, only Android 10 is said to be supported:
https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360061882314-How-Evernote-delivers-app-updates-to-our-customers

Thank you in advance for your help.

[CalS 5,284]

Best I can tell Legacy does not play nice with the new backend.  BS is removing the overhead.

[PinkElephant 8,196]

You tell people were taken by surprise, could not prepare. You tell what happens now is that people find out there is a lot to do, and little time left. That is your story line.

And it is wrong.

Notes are on the server. Nobody needs to panic - every v10 client will sync with the cloud server, even if all notes were created on legacy. It makes no difference, each note gets a one time conversion, and is then enabled for everything, including new features like Tasks and Backlinks.

The users data is safe and can be used on the new clients. It is not the service going offline, it is outdated software taken down from syncing.

The v10 app has all necessary functions for note taking. Who believes he needs more had ample time to think it through, and find a solution. It was clear from the very beginning that the new app will never have all functions of the old clients (which is clear from the fact that none of the legacy clients among themselves had a „full“ feature set - they all had a little more here, and a little less there).

If you want to be helpful, you could engage in building bridges. My impression is that instead you want to burn them.

Which will not happen, no matter what you try. There are enough users in the forum who know both client generations and can help anybody asking questions in good faith. 3-2-1-Done.

[PinkElephant 8,196]

You had more than 3 years to adapt your workflows, or find a solution.

Today you insist you did everything right, and the world should have done what you want. That's what I call "circular thinking", and in this case aggravated by assuming your use cases are the hub of the world. The world didn't care, as you found out.

You believe myself (or probably anybody else) had nothing to adapt ? We all had, but the difference is that we DID.

The new app doesn't do what you NEED for a workflow ? Move that workflow to another place. Or change it.

Hint: If I want to undo a checklist, I select it, hit the checklist icon to remove the formatting (or use shift-cmd-C), then I apply it again. This produces an empty checklist - even indents to structure the checklist are preserved, but all boxes are empty now. You may argue "it is not perfect", which again is your choice of NEEDING this level of perfection. 

[FredJ 36]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

You had more than 3 years to adapt your workflows, or find a solution.

Today you insist you did everything right, and the world should have done what you want. That's what I call "circular thinking", and in this case aggravated by assuming your use cases are the hub of the world. The world didn't care, as you found out.

You believe myself (or probably anybody else) had nothing to adapt ? We all had, but the difference is that we DID.

The new app doesn't do what you NEED for a workflow ? Move that workflow to another place. Or change it.

Hint: If I want to undo a checklist, I select it, hit the checklist icon to remove the formatting (or use shift-cmd-C), then I apply it again. This produces an empty checklist - even indents to structure the checklist are preserved, but all boxes are empty now. You may argue "it is not perfect", which again is your choice of NEEDING this level of perfection. 

@PinkElephant you are so into yourself it's rediculous!  You have ZERO empathy for others, and I'm sure glad i don't live in your body, house, or city (and what country?).  Others CAN be right, actually much more often than you think!  Many things in v10 are BAD, and we've trusted and invested in EN for many years.  They just needed to fix things BEFORE forcing us to move!

[PinkElephant 8,196]

Don‘t you realize you belong to a small group of left overs ? You just believe anything must go your way - reality is different.

Practically all users have moved up to now. Many to v10, many others to other services. From what I see most going elsewhere do so for monetary reasons (which is perfectly ok).

Actually many seasoned forum users like me have offered assistance to fellow users who make the move to v10 - and we do so since more than 3 years now.

We have a lot of empathy for our fellow users, else we wouldn’t be here, and dedicate endless hours. I have personally zero empathy for users like you, who only insist they are special, their use cases are special and anybody beside themselves needs to take action.

You take away our time to help others. There is false information posted (like the one checklists could not be resettled - I just explained how they can), that just falls on the feet of other users following the breadcrumbs into the wrong direction. So we correct it, and I don’t care if you feel embraced by it.

Anybody who wants to preserve a legacy install beyond the 23rd of March should have prepared it by now. Anybody who wants to continue with EN should be running on v10 already.

3 days and counting.

[agsteele 2,957]

The end date is dragging on and will now be 26th. So six days and counting...

[FredJ 36]

7 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Don‘t you realize you belong to a small group of left overs ? You just believe anything must go your way - reality is different.

Practically all users have moved up to now. Many to v10, many others to other services. From what I see most going elsewhere do so for monetary reasons (which is perfectly ok).

Actually many seasoned forum users like me have offered assistance to fellow users who make the move to v10 - and we do so since more than 3 years now.

We have a lot of empathy for our fellow users, else we wouldn’t be here, and dedicate endless hours. I have personally zero empathy for users like you, who only insist they are special, their use cases are special and anybody beside themselves needs to take action.

You take away our time to help others. There is false information posted (like the one checklists could not be resettled - I just explained how they can), that just falls on the feet of other users following the breadcrumbs into the wrong direction. So we correct it, and I don’t care if you feel embraced by it.

Anybody who wants to preserve a legacy install beyond the 23rd of March should have prepared it by now. Anybody who wants to continue with EN should be running on v10 already.

3 days and counting.

I have no issues upgrading.  But you continually 'answering' just hides the fact that there are issues with the V10 client that need to be fixed, so if you didn't answer them in a lame way, without acknowledging that there's a problem that needs to be fixed,  then maybe Evernote could take note and fix the problems which would make everybody happy.

[PinkElephant 8,196]

Fixing bugs in one app has nothing to do with continued syncing for obsolete software.

EN as many others have switched to agile software development. By definition agile software is never complete, and never free of bugs. 

Opposite to classical software development it allows to innovate fast, and to fix issues very fast. You must not love it to understand the approach.

[Razmataz 220]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

Fixing bugs in one app has nothing to do with continued syncing for obsolete software.

EN as many others have switched to agile software development. By definition agile software is never complete, and never free of bugs. 

Opposite to classical software development it allows to innovate fast, and to fix issues very fast. You must not love it to understand the approach.

This world would be a very bad place, if all agile and DevOps development produced so many bugs, like we have in EN. Agile software development is releasing  software as it is being developed, starting with less functionality. Everybody understands that. Agile development doesn't mean -- in the accepted use of the term -- that the software is very buggy and every new feature comes with new issues. And it certainly doesn't mean that 3 year old bugs are acceptable, because bugs are normally eliminated (not: introduced) in an agile fashion, too (as you say yourself above). Now, I would argue that EN underperforms currently in the "fix issues very fast" part.

[testYYer 27]

It's simple.

For me, Evernote is now one of those useless apps.

The old version was the last hope.

[testYYer 27]

Forcing a minority to update is not a

is not democracy.
 

[testYYer 27]

I like the latest products and I'm an early adopter by nature.

But why would I, an early adopter, pay for Evernote and stick with legacy, 

and stick with legacy to the end, 

I wonder if the company has ever thought about why I, an early adopter, would pay for

Evernote and insist on using legacy.

[Boot17 1,473]

IMO Evernote is really awesome software. I love it. I loved Legacy and I've gotten used to and love v10. Many things are better in v10 than in Legacy. I wish we could take the best of Legacy that we don't have in v10, but such is not the case.

2 hours ago, Razmataz said:

This world would be a very bad place, if all agile and DevOps development produced so many bugs, like we have in EN. Agile software development is releasing  software as it is being developed, starting with less functionality. Everybody understands that. Agile development doesn't mean -- in the accepted use of the term -- that the software is very buggy and every new feature comes with new issues. And it certainly doesn't mean that 3 year old bugs are acceptable, because bugs are normally eliminated (not: introduced) in an agile fashion, too (as you say yourself above). Now, I would argue that EN underperforms currently in the "fix issues very fast" part.

...but I also have to agree with this quoted comment. In my own experience, Evernote is probably the buggiest software I think I've ever used -- especially the last 16 months or so has been at least a little bit of a bumpy ride for me personally.

They are fixing a lot of technical debt and doing a lot of rewrite which could cause that (plus not having as many years of experience -- SME -- as the previous team) -- that's bound to cause a few bugs.  However, they are also doing A/B testing on users of a productivity app which I think is counter-productive to productivity IMO.

(And perhaps its always been pretty buggy at various times -- see the infamous https://jasonkincaid.net/evernote-the-bug-ridden-elephant/)

Plus, I also use Evernote just as much or more than most software so I'm more prone to notice bugs I'm sure.

[s2sailor 2,258]

Inappropriate post removed.  Guys , it is pretty clear where you both stand.  Please move on.

[Dr. Fontaine 0]

I can't log in using my Samsung Ultra 24? Can't access any of my notes

 

[MDA13 34]

On 3/19/2024 at 1:36 AM, mackid1993 said:

FYI, Notion, Joplin, Obsidian, Amplenote, UpNote and many other alternatives are either purely webapps or built using Electron.... just like Evernote. OneNote is native as is Apple Notes but those are made by huge firms that have the resources to build software using native API's particularly Microsoft, moreover in the case of OneNote it is a loss leader and was nearly discontinued a few years ago.

If you're angry at Evernote for adopting Electron for v10, your head will explode when you find out that EVERYTHING uses Electron if it is built to be cross platform. Even Microsoft has built the new version of Outlook that will replace win32 Outlook going forward around their Webview2 runtime which is similar to Electron but serviced as an external runtime rather than being packaged with the application, it's built off of their fork of Chromium.

As Javascript has gotten more powerful with frameworks like React and runtimes like Electron and Node and as webapps become more native-like in terms of performance most software vendors have abandoned native APIs for these applications built using web technologies, JS/HTML/CSS.

It's simply not a valid reason in 2024 to choose to not use a product, it's that prevalent.

lots of apps are based on electron.

but evernote is the worst. is seems that there is a mistake in evernote DNA.

obsidian is superfast with tons of plugins drastically extending the functionality!

[MDA13 34]

On 3/19/2024 at 7:20 PM, fuchsfr said:

Is anyone interested joining a class action suit against Bending Spoon for deprecation of functionality during a fully paid Subscription.

 

Basically the suit would force BS to return the delta from March 23 2024 till the end of your current subscription plan. Plus Legal fees.

i would love to do it, but i'm not an USA citizen,

and my english is not enough to read tons of lawsuit papers

[MDA13 34]

On 3/19/2024 at 7:39 PM, agsteele said:

FYI End date for Legacy has been delayed until 26 March.

i will never ever buy EN if they kill the legacy.

[Cristiano478 158]

5 minutos atrás, MDA13 disse:

i will never ever buy EN if they kill the legacy.

It's not "if" it's "when" and the when is 5 days from now.

[PinkElephant 8,196]

If you would have informed yourself, you would know that currently you can view and edit your existing notes under the Free plan.

You can’t move them, and as long as you have more notes than the limit, or more than 1 notebook you can’t create new notes.

If the protection of the existing notes will be maintained forever we will see. I wouldn’t take it for granted, long term.

[PinkElephant 8,196]

The information is clear - except for those who seem to live for muddling the waters and split hairs. Weird hobbies …

Why you feel „threatened“ by getting something for free escapes me. OK, in your case it’s of little use because you are beyond any Free limits anyhow.

[ferol 478]

2 hours ago, MDA13 said:

lots of apps are based on electron.

but evernote is the worst. is seems that there is a mistake in evernote DNA.

obsidian is superfast with tons of plugins drastically extending the functionality!

In my opinion, the main problem is actually the new synchronization method and not Electron...

We have real time, but that means that every single task is immediately synchronized... and apparently every change crawls the Evernote servers first and then comes back locally. If every change to Tag etc..

In contrast, Obsidian actually uses the sync method that Legacy used.. i.e. priority is done on the local database and sync goes in the background. The same is the local Dropbox. But it does mean a risk of conflicts if done at the same time from different locations on the same files..

 

[FredJ 36]

8 minutes ago, ferol said:

In my opinion, the main problem is actually the new synchronization method and not Electron...

We have real time, but that means that every single task is immediately synchronized... and apparently every change crawls the Evernote servers first and then comes back locally. If every change to Tag etc..

In contrast, Obsidian actually uses the sync method that Legacy used.. i.e. priority is done on the local database and sync goes in the background. The same is the local Dropbox. But it does mean a risk of conflicts if done at the same time from different locations on the same files..

 

And how does sync then work if your offline, eg with your phone?

[ferol 478]

23 minutes ago, FredJ said:

And how does sync then work if your offline, eg with your phone?

you need to enable offline sychnonization on your mobile phone for either only specific notes or for specific notebooks. 

And wait until all of them have been reached and then wander how to update offline as well. Of course in a paid account.

[Pavel Sapehin 41]

8 hours ago, ferol said:

In my opinion, the main problem is actually the new synchronization method and not Electron...

We have real time, but that means that every single task is immediately synchronized... and apparently every change crawls the Evernote servers first and then comes back locally. If every change to Tag etc..

In contrast, Obsidian actually uses the sync method that Legacy used.. i.e. priority is done on the local database and sync goes in the background. The same is the local Dropbox. But it does mean a risk of conflicts if done at the same time from different locations on the same files..

 

Personally, I get used to buggy sync in legacy, which was crashing the app from time to time. But the app itself is responsive. You know how in the past times people were saying "you don't need a monitor with a refresh rate more that 60 Hz, your eyes just don't see it"? Well, now we have 244 Hz refresh rates in monitors, and still some people may say it's not enough. Going from the native app experience back to electron app is like going from 244 Hz monitor to 60 Hz. When you try 244 Hz, you can't withstand 60 Hz anymore. And still there are people, and even companies, who are trying to convince you that 60 is OK.

Plus, UX on legacy is much better than in v10. UI on v10 may look sleek and modern, with dark mode support. But guess what - I do not care. I didn't like some aspects of the UX in legacy, but when you use it, you starting to understand why developers did what they did - it convenient. In contrast, in v10 while you are using the interface, you realize - there is no logic behind that justifies the behavior of the buttons, transitions, etc - it's bland. No pun intended to people who was designing that UX, most likely they did what they were asked for.

And then electron, once again. This beast eats tons of memory, it's sluggish. Evernote Legacy on Windows only takes 260 MB of memory. Evernote Legacy on Android takes less than 100 MB of memory (roughly, I haven't measured it precisely). Tell me how much memory your brand new v10 uses? You may tell "there are tons of electron apps that we are still using - vs code for example". VS Code is great code editor - and what it does well - it has awesome UX, which works around the sluggish electron shell and gives you that feeling of nativeness. v10 does not do that.

So, please, go with your 60 Hz if you want, but stop telling us that it's OK.

[FredJ 36]

6 hours ago, Pavel Sapehin said:

Personally, I get used to buggy sync in legacy, which was crashing the app from time to time. But the app itself is responsive. You know how in the past times people were saying "you don't need a monitor with a refresh rate more that 60 Hz, your eyes just don't see it"? Well, now we have 244 Hz refresh rates in monitors, and still some people may say it's not enough. Going from the native app experience back to electron app is like going from 244 Hz monitor to 60 Hz. When you try 244 Hz, you can't withstand 60 Hz anymore. And still there are people, and even companies, who are trying to convince you that 60 is OK.

Plus, UX on legacy is much better than in v10. UI on v10 may look sleek and modern, with dark mode support. But guess what - I do not care. I didn't like some aspects of the UX in legacy, but when you use it, you starting to understand why developers did what they did - it convenient. In contrast, in v10 while you are using the interface, you realize - there is no logic behind that justifies the behavior of the buttons, transitions, etc - it's bland. No pun intended to people who was designing that UX, most likely they did what they were asked for.

And then electron, once again. This beast eats tons of memory, it's sluggish. Evernote Legacy on Windows only takes 260 MB of memory. Evernote Legacy on Android takes less than 100 MB of memory (roughly, I haven't measured it precisely). Tell me how much memory your brand new v10 uses? You may tell "there are tons of electron apps that we are still using - vs code for example". VS Code is great code editor - and what it does well - it has awesome UX, which works around the sluggish electron shell and gives you that feeling of nativeness. v10 does not do that.

So, please, go with your 60 Hz if you want, but stop telling us that it's OK.

It is so laggy and has so many bugs it makes me want to vomit... Searching is also a terrible experience introduced in V10. Not user friendly at all...

[FredJ 36]

Just now, FredJ said:

It is so laggy and has so many bugs it makes me want to vomit... Searching is also a terrible experience introduced in V10. Not user friendly at all...

It's been 13 years now that I've had a pretty good experience and now this, blah

[PinkElephant 8,196]

A typical comment by one platform users, watching down their narrow tunnel.

Anybody who used legacy clients on several platforms probably remembers that they were not even close in their respective UI. It was like using apps from different developers,

V10 brought the first unified UI for all platforms. Well done !

[FredJ 36]

33 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

A typical comment by one platform users, watching down their narrow tunnel.

Anybody who used legacy clients on several platforms probably remembers that they were not even close in their respective UI. It was like using apps from different developers,

V10 brought the first unified UI for all platforms. Well done !

And a HUGE hit on everything else... so sad

[Jon/t 1,338]

Reviews = nonsense. 1 star after 321 reviews.

Here's a 4 star with 1.82 million reviews.

[Jon/t 1,338]

Here's a 4.4 with 2000+ reviews.

Its based on which review sites you pick.

[McKinnon & Harris 0]

Since moving my legacy account to a new Teams account, we have had problems creating new notes.  If I drag and drop a pdf file from my Windows desktop, the note is created temporarily but then disappears a few minutes later.  When emailing notes we are getting an email back from Evernote stating:

We couldn’t deliver your message

There was a problem communicating with the Evernote service. Please try sending the note again later.

Is anyone else experiencing issues creating notes?

[MDA13 34]

23 hours ago, ferol said:

In my opinion, the main problem is actually the new synchronization method and not Electron...

We have real time, but that means that every single task is immediately synchronized... and apparently every change crawls the Evernote servers first and then comes back locally. If every change to Tag etc..

In contrast, Obsidian actually uses the sync method that Legacy used.. i.e. priority is done on the local database and sync goes in the background. The same is the local Dropbox. But it does mean a risk of conflicts if done at the same time from different locations on the same files..

 

I had real life practical experience when v10 android client was syncronizing notes minutes and hours. Do not blame internet connection, I live in Europe with good mobile operators.

Some notes pretended as syncronized, but later I got several conflicting copies.

I have no ideas, how could developers spoil the sync logic if 3 sequential changes in solely android client note (single note) transformed into 3 conflicting copies!

Some newly created notes stuck locally forever and I copy-pasted them to my dropbox files.

Legacy version - lighting speed fast with very rare bugs.

So my experience told me that v10 is fat slow buggy bu***it, and I have vomiting when I see it.

[MDA13 34]

23 hours ago, fuchsfr said:

Today I canceled my subscription.

They offered my 40% off to stay.

I canceled anyway.

Then they told me I get 1 notebook and 100 notes for free. ( a threat that I will loose my data in the free plan)

I canceled anyway.

Then they said it will not go into effect until the end of my subscription.

 

EN is spamming me now with 60% discount offers.

They can go away and "love" themselves.

[PinkElephant 8,196]

Who wants to know ?

[MDA13 34]

3 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Who wants to know ?

You mean who wants to know your opinion?

Nobody wants.

 

[FredJ 36]

2 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Who wants to know ?

UMM... WHO wants to know WHAT???

 

[FredJ 36]

1 hour ago, MDA13 said:

EN is spamming me now with 60% discount offers.

They can go away and "love" themselves.

I owe you a coffee!  I'm so freakin close to cancelling for good, but I took the 40% offer, and I'll give them til then to fix it up... not holding my breath!  (BUT sure hope they get a bunch of the ***** fixed now that they can apply a lot more resources to the issues!!!)

[PinkElephant 8,196]

Just as a reminder: This is a forum, not your personal bulletin board.

[testYYer 27]

evernote's last candle burns for three more days
I have to pack up and leave. My notes number around 8000. I've been with evernote for a long time.

For me, 10 and legacy are completely different programs.
If legacy was agile and allowed for quick searching like regular notepad,
version 10 is very, very slow, and it's a program for developers only.

So let's get ready, it's almost time to leave. 

[Feitz 180]

3 hours ago, MDA13 said:

Some newly created notes stuck locally forever and I copy-pasted them to my dropbox files.

Legacy version - lighting speed fast with very rare bugs.

Exactly what I was experiencing. 

The argument for the benefits of a unified code base for different clients is first and foremost a benefit for BS. 

When I work with Evernote I never skip from Windows to Mac and add some Android as well - while within one note.

I need V10 to work properly on the one client I am using to get something done - and where Legacy was really good at. Who in his right mind edits a note on three different platforms AT THE SAME TIME??? 

Legacy sync was rock solid, never had text magically disappear, only once had a sync error in 13+ years.

V10 is another story, at least TBH it seems to improve on fundamental issues, now I am more plagued by the many inconsistencies within the app. 

[CalS 5,284]

Comparing EN and cloud storage companies is a bit of apples and oranges isn't it?  Unless one used EN simply as a file repository I suppose.  Not an existential question, but do folks buy EN for storage or function?

[Feitz 180]

8 minutes ago, fuchsfr said:

box specs for $180 a year

But it's a business account and you need 3 users minimum so not an option for individuals.

For Mac users I would suggest to use a service that syncs xattrs (finder tags etc.). 

[CalS 5,284]

20 minutes ago, fuchsfr said:

Maybe tomorrow when I'm fresh.

Add Microsoft 365 to the mix to confuse things.  $100 for some software and 6 TB of space for family. 

For me app feature trumps storage, so not really a meaningful compare.  Storage to storage with storage specific features a different story.  But that's just me.

[FredJ 36]

2 hours ago, CalS said:

Add Microsoft 365 to the mix to confuse things.  $100 for some software and 6 TB of space for family. 

For me app feature trumps storage, so not really a meaningful compare.  Storage to storage with storage specific features a different story.  But that's just me.

On this one I agree with you ... function is huge (I've never used my limit either).  That's why it's so important that v10 works as well as v7 did, and I hope they get there... SOON! 

 

 

 

 

 

[MDA13 34]

39 minutes ago, FredJ said:

On this one I agree with you ... function is huge (I've never used my limit either).  That's why it's so important that v10 works as well as v7 did, and I hope they get there... SOON! 

 

 

 

 

 

i was waiting for years that v10 will be acceptable for use.

no. no way. it is impossible.

sh*t will stay sh*t forever!

no miracle will happen!

[CalS 5,284]

2 hours ago, FredJ said:

On this one I agree with you ... function is huge (I've never used my limit either).  That's why it's so important that v10 works as well as v7 did, and I hope they get there... SOON! 

I made the decision in 2021 not to wait for V10 to achieve functional parity, pre BS. I thought it unlikely and was sure local notebooks weren’t coming back in any case.  So I moved on at the end of 2021. A hard decision but function drove it. 

I have been coming back to the forums to check V10 progress. Still misses the mark for my use case. No drama, it is what it is. 

[FredJ 36]

Oh ya, EN, and all this BS about AI... forget it!  Just give me a good search that works well!  (EG make it auto jump to first occurrence automatically, not give false positives, etc... Just good working basics!)

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,979]

18 hours ago, Feitz said:

Exactly what I was experiencing. 

The argument for the benefits of a unified code base for different clients is first and foremost a benefit for BS. 

When I work with Evernote I never skip from Windows to Mac and add some Android as well - while within one note.

I need V10 to work properly on the one client I am using to get something done - and where Legacy was really good at. Who in his right mind edits a note on three different platforms AT THE SAME TIME??? 

Legacy sync was rock solid, never had text magically disappear, only once had a sync error in 13+ years.

V10 is another story, at least TBH it seems to improve on fundamental issues, now I am more plagued by the many inconsistencies within the app. 

WRT the unified code base, I have several disagreements here. For one thing, it has nothing to do with Bending Spoons; it was one of the fundamental changes to v. 10 back in 2020. More importantly, it is absolutely a benefit to users who want to user Evernote for something more than a glorified indexing program on a single computer. The point is not editing a note on multiple devices at the same time (though I have done that with Android and Windows), but editing a note on multiple devices on different platforms and having a consistency of appearance, features, and functions across them all. Evernote Legacy never did that at all, period. "Let's see, can I do superscript on this device? What about strikethrough? I used a different font there for emphasis on Windows -- oops, Android doesn't have that font, emphasis gone." It is a useful and valuable capability, and worth the slower processing time to me, and apparently to others as well. And this doesn't even address the matter of Evernote's owners being able to develop the program in new ways across all platforms without running into insuperable obstacles, and the cost of having multiple teams of programmers doing the same thing at once.

As for "Legacy sync was rock solid, never had text magically disappear, only once had a sync error in 13+ years." And never any conflicting changes either? That would be a miracle; or a result of only every using it on one device.

[Razmataz 220]

I agree with that, @Dave-in-Decatur, unified code base is good. Less expense to the company, possibly faster development and more innovation.

The problem of V10 is not even that it is slower. It's problem is that many useful functions are gone and that it is very buggy by any standards. There are 3 year old serious bugs, for crying out loud. 

And now BS/EN had to decide if they fix the problems (see Ferol's list) or introduce new, glitzy features (with many new problems, as it appears).

They have opted for the latter. This is a problem for me (customer for 15 years).

If it isn't for you, congratulations! I envy you.

[Feitz 180]

2 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

but editing a note on multiple devices on different platforms and having a consistency of appearance, features, and functions across them all.

Well, my main workspace is MacOS and Android for mobile.

Not having certain formatting options in Legacy for Android didn't bother me if I ever even noticed. Checklists behaved differently, but I did have all my notes available offline and could rely on them as opposed to V10 on Android.

V10 on Android was until recently completely unusable for me and I had to run circles to revert to Legacy and stop Android from instantly updating to V10 again. 

I either had a blank screen on start-up, V10 not loading at all or many stuck notes that simply would not sync and therefore prevented other notes to sync back to Android. Tons of waisted screen area on top.

I updated to V10 Android a couple of days ago and does seem to have improved but I haven't tested much yet. 

 

2 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

As for "Legacy sync was rock solid, never had text magically disappear, only once had a sync error in 13+ years." And never any conflicting changes either? That would be a miracle; or a result of only every using it on one device.

That was the sync error I referred to, I had one conflicting note in ages of use.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,979]

1 hour ago, Razmataz said:

I agree with that, @Dave-in-Decatur, unified code base is good. Less expense to the company, possibly faster development and more innovation.

The problem of V10 is not even that it is slower. It's problem is that many useful functions are gone and that it is very buggy by any standards. There are 3 year old serious bugs, for crying out loud. 

And now BS/EN had to decide if they fix the problems (see Ferol's list) or introduce new, glitzy features (with many new problems, as it appears).

They have opted for the latter. This is a problem for me (customer for 15 years).

If it isn't for you, congratulations! I envy you.

Every discussion here is subjective (despite anyone's claim to the contrary). I really don't think there's a single function of Legacy that I miss personally (not that I remember it that well, TBH), and I like the features of v. 10 that Legacy lacked (not only consistency across platforms, but, for instance, backlinks). But that is due to my own needs, experiences, and expectations. There are people who did things with Legacy that I didn't, and for them the loss of some features really is a problem. But that doesn't make v. 10 useless overall.

As for "buggy," that's something that almost needs to be defined every time one uses it. Does it mean "a function that doesn't work as it is planned to" (my understanding)? Or "a function that is poorly implemented" (subjective, but for instance the / commands with their everlasting nags)? Or "a feature that is missing" (which is not a bug at all IMHO)? Ferol's list is almost entirely feature requests of various kinds, with only a relatively small section labeled "bugs" at the end. So "buggy" may boil down to "has features, and will have new features, that I don't care for, but lacks functions that I need."

[Feitz 180]

2 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

As for "buggy,"

In my view we have both missing - essential - features and software bugs.

I wouldn't call it a feature request if e.g.

- text I have written just vanishes without a trace (no previous version to go to, happened multiple times)
- attachments disappear or are transformed to 'untitled attachments'
- shortcuts not working (like 'undo/redo' which is really a basic feature of every piece of software)
- Macos standards not followed

I recently listed more than these issues and missing features as well.

 

[Pavel Sapehin 41]

5 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

not only consistency across platforms, but, for instance, backlinks

During 10 years of using different note-taking apps (evernote, notion, one note, plain.md doc, obsidian, diagramming and mind-mapping tools, paper notes, etc) I developed my own system of cross-links, so back links is too late to the party in my case. Though it's a great feature, I avoid using it because my system allows much more than just "backlinks".

Nevertheless, this feature could be implemented without introducing breaking changes to the existing clients. I don't know why they did how they did it, most likely there was a good technical reasons. As for other features. Tasks - well, for me it's just a distraction because I use Azure DevOps, Jira or Notion for task tracking. Task tracking in Evernote looks like a child game for 5+. And then "home page/dashboard", which goes above "All Notes". First of all, this dashboard is not flexible enough to be called a dashboard; secondly, it's not useful enough, because this page takes from 3 to 10 seconds to open for me, and it does not contain what I need 90% of the time. That's why I would prefer not having it at all. It's so annoying.

I can go on explaining why other new features are not useful in v10, but many people already explained it in other posts. Sure, it's subjective in a sense, and not everyone have an experience with other apps which do many of what "new features" do in Evernote, but much much better.

[PinkElephant 8,196]

V10 uses a different basic data structure than legacy. This means that as long as there are legacy clients syncing with the server, the server needs to service 2 interfaces and 2 sets of data.

The old server code is difficult to maintain. Assuring backward compatibility for changes is even worse. The consequence is obvious and will now be implemented, by taking the old part of the server setup offline.

If v10 works for you you need to find out yourself.

[Pavel Sapehin 41]

7 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

V10 uses a different basic data structure than legacy. This means that as long as there are legacy clients syncing with the server, the server needs to service 2 interfaces and 2 sets of data.

Until the legacy clients itself would support the new data structures. Not sure how much it could cost for BS, but dedicating a separate team to update legacy could be another option. At least to keep up with the new sync API. They should still have the source code. Supporting the old API may be adopted by all legacy clients, but if it is so complex as you say, hard to say what is cheaper. Outsourcing some obsolete parts is another option which may allow to keep or even build upon legacy for less than having a dedicated high-paid team. But probably someone is already calculated costs and what we discuss here is the result.
 

18 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

If v10 works for you you need to find out yourself.

I wish it could be so easy. It depends on the company's success. Because if it fails, there is no points to invest efforts into legacy or v10. IMHO Evernote took the wrong turn somewhere around 2018. There is still a chance to make it "right". And maybe this is what many people in this thread are trying to convey?

[PinkElephant 8,196]

The legacy clients are deprecated since 2020. This means no more changes, even if an OS update breaks things. This is the case on the Mac - legacy Mac is practically unusable since MacOS Ventura, released late 2022.

Furthermore the EN team of old doesn’t exist any more. The US and chilenian offices are closed, the employees have left.

There is a new team run from the new Italian HQ (but maybe located elsewhere, who knows). There is nobody left with the skill set to touch this outdated software.

And be assured: It would not be worth a single dime spend on it. Legacy and it’s technical debt was what nearly killed the company, and finally led the owners to put it on the block.

Stopping the legacy server infrastructure is done to cut down this technical debt, in terms of maintenance, data volume and operational cost.

EN took the only possible solution in 2018, to start the transition to a future proof technology. They just missed to pull it through on the operations / economical side as well.

[Razmataz 220]

12 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

As for "buggy," that's something that almost needs to be defined every time one uses it. Does it mean "a function that doesn't work as it is planned to" (my understanding)? 

Yes, let's start with that.

1. Print simply doesn't work (HTML blocks are empty, preview doesn't work) (all shown in Preview)
2. Export to PDF ditto (and it shows all attachments as "untitled attachment")
3. Export to HTML same  "untitled attachment" problem (ca. 2 months old bug)
4. Export to HTML generates dead links to attachments (and now no titles either, see 3) (ca. 3 years old bug) It is impossible to generate a simple website from a note with attachment.

Dave, this isn't the subjective view of a single user. (On latest release).

All of these worked just fine on legacy (and still do). But I don't want legacy back (anymore). I just want a V10 that works (for me).

BTW, all these issues are reported and have ticket #. Just no action.

[PinkElephant 8,196]

@fuchsfr Sure the servers will migrate.

Do you really expect a company that is looking ahead to stick with an outdated server infrastructure, after you request they stick with outdated server code and outdated clients ? Nice industrial museum you want them to keep.

The old server software is called Monolith - that probably describes it all: Immutable, impossible to adapt or move ahead.

You are really fun to listen to: You tell the obvious, and at the same time ask to stay stuck with the past because you are afraid of what’s ahead.

Of course there is more to come once they got rid of the ballast ! Or did you really believe once they streamlined everything, these guys will lean back and take it easy ?

[Razmataz 220]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

Of course there is more to come once they got rid of the ballast ! Or did you really believe once they streamlined everything, these guys will lean back and take it easy ?

I hope not. So you are saying that the development team is so bugged down with the legacy back-end (there is no work on the legacy client anymore) that they cannot take care of the needs of the V10 client? What exactly do they do?

And once legacy is shut down, then we will have all those developers (with infrastructure and back-end skills) developing the client, making design decisions of the UI etc.? 

Asking for a friend.

[CalS 5,284]

7 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

V10 uses a different basic data structure than legacy. This means that as long as there are legacy clients syncing with the server, the server needs to service 2 interfaces and 2 sets of data.

I always thought this was an interesting choice by EN.  Was surprised they didn't change the data structure for all and create 2 wrappers to supply the clients.  One for Legacy and one for V10.  Still need to sunset Legacy but maybe a smoother transition.  Or maybe this was more BS post acquisition.  Don't know, I lost focus a bit at the end of 2021.

[PinkElephant 8,196]

@Razmataz Problem #1 is that with every new feature introduced for the modern client, the devs need to check backward compatibility.

Not to introduce it into legacy, but to make sure there are no side effects. This is important for users who use legacy and v10 in parallel.

Problem #2 is that the old API and database is exposed to the internet. You need to monitor and defend it, even when there are no changes.

To reach these conclusions you just need to read the official blog post about it.

Killing outdated software is the better approach than taking risks. It needs to be killed anyhow, there is no gain in waiting. Or what would be different in 3 months, 6 months or a year ? Just more money burned by operating a zombie.

So let’s nail the coffin, and move on.

[Razmataz 220]

41 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

So let’s nail the coffin, and move on.

All right, we will come back to the "move on" (in the sense of "making progress") part in due course.

I am looking forward to it.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,979]

21 hours ago, Feitz said:

In my view we have both missing - essential - features and software bugs.

I wouldn't call it a feature request if e.g.

- text I have written just vanishes without a trace (no previous version to go to, happened multiple times)
- attachments disappear or are transformed to 'untitled attachments'
- shortcuts not working (like 'undo/redo' which is really a basic feature of every piece of software)
- Macos standards not followed

I recently listed more than these issues and missing features as well.

 

All I can say is that the first example is definitely a bug, but I personally have not experienced it (unless the experience has vanished from my brain, which I admit has bugs of its own). The second bug I can generally fix by backing out of the note and returning to it--almost every time, but not quite--but yes, it's a bug, and needs to be fixed. The 3rd item was acknowledged as a bug and fixed in a matter of days, as I recall. I can't speak to #4.

11 hours ago, Razmataz said:

Yes, let's start with that.

1. Print simply doesn't work (HTML blocks are empty, preview doesn't work) (all shown in Preview)
2. Export to PDF ditto (and it shows all attachments as "untitled attachment")
3. Export to HTML same  "untitled attachment" problem (ca. 2 months old bug)
4. Export to HTML generates dead links to attachments (and now no titles either, see 3) (ca. 3 years old bug) It is impossible to generate a simple website from a note with attachment.

Dave, this isn't the subjective view of a single user. (On latest release).

All of these worked just fine on legacy (and still do). But I don't want legacy back (anymore). I just want a V10 that works (for me).

BTW, all these issues are reported and have ticket #. Just no action.

1. I don't have much experience regarding this, since I don't print much from Evernote. To try to understand it, I just tried printing a note that has a page of text and what should be a 2-page Web clip. It printed: the page of text; a p. with "Web clip" at the top and nothing else; the 2 pages of the clip, but with a few rows of a table missing; a blank page. So buggy, yes. Of course, Web clips simplified for editing print OK, though that's not always what's needed. In my limited experience Evernote generally prints what I need. It certainly has problems sometimes, but to say it "simply doesn't work" is the kind of exaggeration that makes these discussions difficult.

2. I just exported a note consisting entirely of 5 images to PDF, and it worked fine.

3.-4. I also don't have experience with HTML export.

I don't think anyone has claimed that v. 10 was without bugs. Anyone who used versions 6 and prior for any length of time will remember the bugs that they had, and the long, long times it took to get some of them fixed. I invite anyone who doesn't mind getting their rose-colored glasses a little fogged to browse through the forum for those versions (https://discussion.evernote.com/forums/forum/225-evernote-for-windows-issues-versions-6251-and-under/), starting around the middle of 2020 (before v. 10 was released) and working backward. The level of criticism leveled at v. 10 now is no greater than what v. 6 received back then. Software has bugs. Sometimes they take a long time to get fixed. When a software company gets purchased and existing staff are let go, it can take a very long time for new support and technical staff to get things working well. Evernote is in the middle of all that. Such is my viewpoint.

And that's it for me in this thread. It turns out I have actual work to get done in the coming months, and I need to step back from these forums for awhile. I'll probably pop in occasionally, esp. if I run into any issues myself. I truly wish everyone the best of luck in the weeks ahead.

[PinkElephant 8,196]

Wish you success with getting things done - I'm afraid it will still be allowed for some users here to abuse the forum as their personal billboard when you come back.

Some statements (like long lists of stuff anybody can look up) would even be amusing, if they weren't that hollow.

[Timur Aliev 10]

DO NOT DELETE LEGACY!

[agsteele 2,957]

Too late. It will go in two days.

[s2sailor 2,258]

25 minutes ago, fuchsfr said:

Now if the moderators won't rein you in, then I am free to criticize your misdeeds.

It is time for the both of you to start using the ignore button.  These posts are not adding to the discussion and will be removed if they continue.

[Razmataz 220]

15 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

It certainly has problems sometimes, but to say it "simply doesn't work" is the kind of exaggeration that makes these discussions difficult.

2. I just exported a note consisting entirely of 5 images to PDF, and it worked fine.

3.-4. I also don't have experience with HTML export.

Dave,

let's call it a day. There is no point in arguing anymore.

You say: It's only a bug if it doesn't work at all

I say: here are a few examples that it doesn't on run-of-the-mill, totally standard functions

You say: If I do something like it (but not what I said), it works OR I don't do that OR I have no experience…

I have nothing to gain by convincing you that I have issues. You don't, and that is stellar for you.

But the bugs I described exist, are not intermittent, easy to reproduce. And some very old.

I don't understand why you are trying to deny the obvious, but that's your good right.

I stand by my story: V10 is of very poor quality. And yes, certain things do not work. At all.

Bad luck for me, that I need them.

Peace.

[testYYer 27]

That's exciting. 

I can't wait to see Evernote get rid of all the legacy users.

all legacy users today.

I guess we'll find out today how Evernote treats its users.

Will removing legacy make it more friendly to newer users?

No. They might just abandon the app if it doesn't make money.

This is just the beginning. 

[aukinfo 1]

Just migrated to the new version and my work productivity has ground to a halt. Its a monster, so complicated. I just want a quick, simple app with tags. Not too much to ask is it?

[Razmataz 220]

51 minutes ago, aukinfo said:

… my work productivity has ground to a halt. …

The same happened to me. But it will get better, as you use it more. It will just never go back to the level of legacy, and that is not the goal, either. Productivity is not important now, that's why the menus are so complicated, options put into inconspicuous places, simple actions of legacy need now 6 or more clicks. etc.

But if you need a simple app, it might get there someday, no telling when.

I try to do more with it and my productivity has dropped considerably.

I fact, I did finish a few things today, as tomorrow some things can not be done with legacy, e.. reorganizing notebooks (as there is now a limit of 100 (!) notes that can be selected at one time.

But again, if you find the price acceptable, you can continue with EN. You will get used to the difficulties, the workarounds and the reduced productivity.

[TdeV 88]

On 3/23/2024 at 1:11 AM, CalS said:

I made the decision in 2021 not to wait for V10 to achieve functional parity, pre BS. I thought it unlikely and was sure local notebooks weren’t coming back in any case.  So I moved on at the end of 2021. A hard decision but function drove it. 

I have been coming back to the forums to check V10 progress. Still misses the mark for my use case. No drama, it is what it is. 

What did you move to, Cal?

[s2sailor 2,258]

5 minutes ago, TdeV said:

What did you move to, Cal?

He rolled his own solution.  Search on his username, he’s posted the details several times.

[FredJ 36]

IMPORTANT... (TO MR at least...)...

So, I just noticed I can only select 100 notes of my 3000+... so how do I NOW (v10) do a backup for the day EN / BS announces bankruptcy??  Is there still an .ENEX export??

Also, are all my notes now on a server in ITALY??

 

[s2sailor 2,258]

Just now, FredJ said:

So, I just noticed I can only select 100 notes of my 3000+

Export by notebook and you are not limited to 100.

[FredJ 36]

2 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Export by notebook and you are not limited to 100.

So now I can't just have one single backup file??

[s2sailor 2,258]

11 minutes ago, FredJ said:

So now I can't just have one single backup file??

Selecting all notes like you may have done in the past did not capture the notebook information.  If you want to maintain the notebook info then you need to export by notebook.  I suspect that is at least one reason why they removed the select all option.  Folks were using it not realizing they lost the notebook details.  Evernote still needs to have a backup solution where we can select either all notebooks or only the ones we care about, automated preferred.

Some of us use the github evernote-backup solution.

https://github.com/vzhd1701/evernote-backup

[PinkElephant 8,196]

28 minutes ago, FredJ said:

So now I can't just have one single backup file??

If you ask this, you never tried a restore. You NEVER know a backup has integrity unless you tried.

Case you tried your „one and only“ backup file, you would have noticed it lacks the notebook. All notes on one large heap. But that’s not all: The import creates new notes. These need to upload - consuming your upload limit. If you are above the limit of your Plan, the import will fail, locking up the account for 30 days. The next import will start again at point zero, trying to import the same notes again.

Other apps that in principle would import might choke as well when hit with too large a file.

Even with legacy the advise for a backup always has been to export by notebook. So that was the way back then, and it still is the way with v10. When you did, try to import a notebook to see everything works.

For an automated process you can use the GitHub project:

https://github.com/vzhd1701/evernote-backup

It will run a full download only the first time. After that it will work incrementally, downloading only new or changed content.

And I agree that EN should provide for a integrated backup solution. But they never did, so at least nobody is worse off today than before.

About data hold in Italy: Actually this improved the situation regarding privacy and security. Italy as part of the EU applies GDRP, the European data protection legislation. Some aspects are that your data belong to yourself, the service must protect them (with heavy fines if they don’t) and a ton of more rules. Much better there than in „Wild West“ USA where data protection can be annihilated by moving the operation to another state. Anybody said Xitter here … ?

[Dave Edwards 245]

The cut off date is now March 26. 
here’s more info

 

[s2sailor 2,258]

9 minutes ago, ben353253 said:

This is spam.

Personally, I think these videos should be in a separate forum section, but they are not spam.

[Cristiano478 158]

8 horas atrás, fuchsfr disse:

@s2sailor I appreciate your intervention.  But honestly PE has been on these boards for a very long time and I just got here.  Why are you not telling PE to shut it down?

you consider this acceptable?

 

Pink Elephant is a bit of an ***** in the way he talks despite telling the truth. I don't think you should take this personally. He's like that with everyone here.

[satibo1997 0]

...EN is a great piece of software, with many advantages over other similar note-taking software, and I don't see why it can't strike a good deal in the US. EN has now been successfully de-Americanised, both in terms of its business style and experience, and the result is bound to be the loss of a large number of old users and an inability to attract a new generation of users. This is very sad. As a long-time user and avid supporter of EN, I think it's time to say goodbye to EN and wish it well.

[FredJ 36]

2 minutes ago, Cristiano478 said:

Pink Elephant is a bit of an ***** in the way he talks despite telling the truth. I don't think you should take this personally. He's like that with everyone here.

Ah, I get it! so I can be an ass to 'everybody' and then that's okay... instead of just to a couple of people... Then it's really bad, right? ;-))

[gazumped 11,713]

It's a good job that Pink Elephant can't see this sort of byplay*, otherwise they might be inclined to fire back with even more enthusiasm,  and then you could argue that's unreasonable and should be banned and then you win... something. 

Everyone gets a lot of leeway here,  but how about everyone gets back to complaining about how bad the software is and stops reacting to personal attacks?  And not provoking them would be a good start...

*Oh,  wait...

[gazumped 11,713]

1 minute ago, fuchsfr said:

I bet it's more interesting than any of these posts.

I could not agree more...

[Cristiano478 158]

18 minutos atrás, FredJ disse:

Ah, I get it! so I can be an ass to 'everybody' and then that's okay... instead of just to a couple of people... Then it's really bad, right? ;-))

I didn't say he's right. But I think that being offended and responding back only makes things worse. Ignore him. If he says something bad, don't respond.

[PinkElephant 8,196]

Mildly amused … 🥱

[Razmataz 220]

14 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

For an automated process you can use the GitHub project:

https://github.com/vzhd1701/evernote-backup

It will run a full download only the first time. After that it will work incrementally, downloading only new or changed content.

Just to add to that: one can set up a recurring automated execution of the backup (which is, as mentioned, incremental) by using the Task Scheduler on Windows.

I run it twice a week, fully automated.

Recommended.