Jump to content
  • 355
cswsteve

Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks

Idea

Recommended Posts

  • 0

Your responses read like a smug Apple forum fanatic. I'm sorry this topic burns your soul, but it's a legitimate request. Your attitude is unwelcome.

 

I never said it wasn't a legitimate request.  Sorry if you don't like my answer.  But I post accurate & valid answers.  Not just an answer that you want to hear.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Your responses read like a smug Apple forum fanatic. I'm sorry this topic burns your soul, but it's a legitimate request. Your attitude is unwelcome.

Actually, her answer is correct, in lieu of any definitive response from Evernote on the topic (other than what they've already said, essentially, "we have no plans to offer subnotebooks"). Her attitude of providing help to other users here on the forums (on her own, unpaid time) for their problems with using Evernote is actually *very* welcome, and one that would be useful for more forum-goers to exhibit.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Nested stacks are absolutely needed. The Evernote team should seriously consider this issue, this is very important.

I've got used to Chrome style bookmarks: I store my bookmarks in multi-level nested structure. Although I use Xmarks to sync my bookmarks across different browsers, I use Chrome for organizing them because it has a very intuitive and efficient bookmark manager which lets you manage bookmarks and bookmark folders like regular files and folders with the same shortcuts and mouse operations you use in your OS (Windows shortcuts are the de facto among OSes) like holding down Shift or Ctrl, multi select, drag and drop, easily rename, even Ctrl+Z to undo your actions, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+X, Ctrl+V. I think notebooks should be considered as folders rather than notebooks, then you don't need stacks anymore, you can put your notes in these folders, and of course you can have multiple folders inside each other (as many hierarchical levels as you need). Stacks are not the best concept for organizing notes, you cannot put single notes in them. If you consider folders you can have both folders and notes inside another folder (again like bookmarks), which is needed most of the times. And of course, we should be able to use regular desktop interactions with them, like using the same keyboard shortcuts, drag and drop, and so on.

 

Does it have any impact to request this feature here?

 

Thank you in advance.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Nested stacks are absolutely needed. The Evernote team should seriously consider this issue, this is very important.

I've got used to Chrome style bookmarks: I store my bookmarks in multi-level nested structure. Although I use Xmarks to sync my bookmarks across different browsers, I use Chrome for organizing them because it has a very intuitive and efficient bookmark manager which lets you manage bookmarks and bookmark folders like regular files and folders with the same shortcuts and mouse operations you use in your OS (Windows shortcuts are the de facto among OSes) like holding down Shift or Ctrl, multi select, drag and drop, easily rename, even Ctrl+Z to undo your actions, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+X, Ctrl+V. I think Evrnote notebooks should be considered as folders rather than notebooks, then you can put your notes in these folders, and of course you can have multiple folders inside each other (as many hierarchical levels as you need). Stacks are the best concept for organizing, you cannot put single notes in them, but when you consider folders you can have both folders and notes inside another folder (again like bookmarks), which is needed in my opinion. And of course, we should be able to use regular desktop interactions with them, like using the same keyboard shortcuts, drag and drop, and so on.

 

Does it have any impact to request this feature here? Or should we write directly to the Evernote team?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

EN is fully aware that many users want nested notebooks and/or stacks.  It's doubtful they will appear any time soon, if ever.  Options (tags, keywords, etc) have been discussed at great length already on the board. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Does it have any impact to request this feature here?

Yes, it does. Evernote staff do read and evaluate every post. But some features are just not in line with the Evernote vision of what their product is, so they may not implement any given requested feature at all, or they may not implement it in the way requested.

In this case, the model is:

Stacks are used to organize notebooks.

Notebooks are used to organize notes.

Notes contain the stuff that you want to remember.

Changing how these concepts are considered still means large changes to the Evernote architecture, from the servers that hold notes to all of the various clients. Not so sure that this is in the cards any time soon.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I have several Stacks for previous projects that I am no longer working on and I would like to create a new Stack and drag all of those other stacks inside of it, however, I am unable to do this. Is there some other way to achieve what I am trying to accomplish?

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Sorry, STACKS is the top level in EN.

STACKS can have notebooks but not stacks.

 

There are workarounds: You could re-name your old stacks, something like "X-name" and the stack will move down in the list.

If you don't have too many notebooks in your stacks, you can create an "Archive-stack" and move all your notebooks into that one.

Hope this helps.

Wern

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I created a new Prior Projects Stack and moved Notebooks from my other Stacks into it. I would like to make a new Notebook inside of this Stack for each of my prior projects that would contain all of the Notebooks from the previous Stacks. Can you not have Notebooks inside of Notebooks either?


 


Thanks.


Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I created a new Prior Projects Stack and moved Notebooks from my other Stacks into it. I would like to make a new Notebook inside of this Stack for each of my prior projects that would contain all of the Notebooks from the previous Stacks. Can you not have Notebooks inside of Notebooks either?

 

Thanks.

You cannot have notebooks inside of other notebooks:

* Notes contain only text, attachments and tags.

* Notebooks contain only notes.

* Stacks contain only Notebooks.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

No, sorry. No notebooks inside notebooks either. You can move a notebook into a notebook but EN will then create a STACK automatically.

The hierarchy from bottom to top is:

  • notes
  • notebooks
  • stacks
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Why can't we have both nested notebooks and tags? Is there a technical reason? The ability to organise files into a hierarchy of folders (notebooks) and sub folders (sub notebooks) is a reasonable request, isn't it? Why can't we stack notebooks?

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Why can't we have both nested notebooks and tags? Is there a technical reason? The ability to organise files into a hierarchy of folders (notebooks) and sub folders (sub notebooks) is a reasonable request, isn't it? Why can't we stack notebooks?

Sure, its a reasonable request. However, software architectures are the results of choices that the developers make. Evernote could do this if they chose. They've chosen not to, at least at this time.

Thant being said, you *can* stack notebooks. That's why they added stacks. But stacks only add one level of hierarchy: stacks only contain notebooks, notebooks only contain notes. That's it.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Because Evernote has not chosen to make nested notebooks a feature. It's not their organizational model.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Some of my old files are stored in a complex folder structure on my external archival drive. Earlier this week, I had a bear of a time locating one specific file due the labyrinth of folders, subfolders, and nested folders. It is so, so much easier to find stuff in Evernote using tags and structured titles. Even though I've got 20,000+ notes, I try to keep the number of notebooks down to just 7.

 

Hi. I don't know if this will help you with locating a specific file, but for me this freeware program has been a life saver:  http://www.snapfiles.com/get/everything.html.

I hope this proves helpful.

Alan.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Why can't we have both nested notebooks and tags? Is there a technical reason? The ability to organise files into a hierarchy of folders (notebooks) and sub folders (sub notebooks) is a reasonable request, isn't it? Why can't we stack notebooks?

We are users of Evernote so we don't know what is the mind of Evernote developers, but putting a few pieces of the puzzle together - here is my assumption:

 

Several of the power users on this forum have run into problems with large numbers of notes. Some people have solved the problem by off-loading their larger notes or switching to text based notes. Other people have resorted to running multiple accounts of Evernote thereby reducing the number of notes in each account.

 

If the Evernote database has difficulty with large numbers of individual notes, then the problem managing multiple levels of notebooks could just make this scaling problem worse.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

The context:

many users are used to being limited by physical reality and so don't really 'get' tags, search and other evernote features - they understand a notebook and that if something is in a notebook it's in a notebook.

 

My suggestion is for the following purpose:

 

1 allow new users to quickly pick up and 'get' evernote, and to be able to use it to do what they need it for effectively

(using evernote effectively can feel more like a mindset than a skill sometimes)

 

2 futureproof said new users from being stuck in an old way that no longer works for them once they 'get' evernote and want to change

 

aka reduce the learning curve whilst maintaining the features

 

The suggestion:

turn notebooks into 'notebook tags'

 

essentially the interface would remain the same in that 'notebook tags' would be located where notebooks are now and they would be a different 'class' of tag (i.e can't nest them together)

you could drag and drop notes from one 'notebook tag' to another (this would 'remove' the old notebook tag and 'add' the new notebook tag to the note)

you can nest notebook tags as deeply as you like

you can have the same note 'in' multiple 'notebook tags' 

 

why?

new users can use them as notebooks

it allows all users to have a primary division of notes (whilst still allowing some notes to be in multiple notebook tags) and still having normal tags to tag everything else with.

in the future if they decide they'd rather have the notebook tag as a tag they can convert it to a 'normal tag'

if the user starts to get the power of tags they can use their notebook tags in a more tag-like way, 'tagging' notes in other notebook tags or converting their notebook tags to regular tags

if you never want to have notes in multiple 'notebook tags' you don't have to

 

 

 

I haven't read every single post in the forum, far from it

If I've repeated something someone else has said feel free to ignore me, link to another post or delete this thread.

 

Let me know what you think..

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

The context:

many users are used to being limited by physical reality and so don't really 'get' tags, search and other evernote features - they understand a notebook and that if something is in a notebook it's in a notebook.

Notebooks are not, and should not be 'tags'. That just confuses the differences between their individual concepts:

* Notebooks are used to partition your notes into separate sets of notes; tags do no such partitioning: a note belongs to a single notebook, but can have multiple tags.

* Notebooks are the basis for sharing of groups of notes, offline note storage on mobile devices, and local note storage on desktop clients. You cannot perform these useful functions with tags at this point.

* Because you can apply multiple tags to a note, you can do cross-categorization that is just not possible with notebooks.

* Notebooks contain; tags describe.

Tags are not conceptually that difficult to understand, given good description and ties to, yes, 'physical reality'. In the realm of physical reality, we have and use tag-like concept all the times. Do your physical notebooks have labels? Those are tags. Do your users use adjectives? Those are tags.

Tags are tags. Notebooks are notebooks. They do different things. Let's not conflate them into some confusing blob concept/facility (that really isn't because they are, in this proposal, secretly and magically, convertible back and forth).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

alright, alright, you got me........it's not for new users at all....it's just for me.

 

What can I say...I just love nested notebooks so very much!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

It's OK -- I have strong feelings about this stuff. :) And it's good to think about things and make suggestions, too.

I understand the desire for nested notebooks, I'm just not sure how feasible it would be with Evernote's underlying storage architecture (I'm not saying it's impossible, though). The more I think about it, the more I think that the path to nestable note organization might be via notebook stacks rather than nestable notebooks. I have no external evidence that Evernote is thinking any such thing, but it just seems as though that would be a more natural step.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

i dont mean to be a  necromancer but i really would like this feature as well.. A way to have a notebook within a notebook. Eg, i have stuff im working on for a class, i keep most of the information in one notebook, id like to be able to have script snipplets and assignment information in their own notebook within the one i have for class, like someone easily could in real life..

 

My class is online, and spread across multiple devices, evernote is perfect..but id like a bit more orgnaization. Tags are for twitter.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

i dont mean to be a  necromancer but i really would like this feature as well.. A way to have a notebook within a notebook. Eg, i have stuff im working on for a class, i keep most of the information in one notebook, id like to be able to have script snipplets and assignment information in their own notebook within the one i have for class, like someone easily could in real life..

 

My class is online, and spread across multiple devices, evernote is perfect..but id like a bit more orgnaization. Tags are for twitter.

 

Tags are for Evernote also.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I know that the EverNote team is pushing very hard to have people use the tags system.

And tags are great! But it doesn't always work.

 

Tags are cumbersome and require time and diligence to apply them.

 

I use EN for work and personal affairs.

For personal affairs, I have (most of the time) plenty of time. I use it to organise a trip, create a to do list, have some documents in there. Tags are great!

For work however, I do not have time to apply tags, I want to just add a note for a certain customer's project, I quickly want my stuff in EN. Tags are too time consuming!

 

For work I have multiple customers with multiple projects spanning accross multiple software products. 2 levels of folders are not enough! It becomes way too messy.

 

I see the use of tags and I use it when I can. But I also want to be able to use some sort of structure whenever I need to.

I can't see why the two cannot live together...

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Well,  tags aren't always necessary - search by customer and sort by created date to get a list of all actions on all projects;  search by customer and project reference / sort by created date to see actions on that project.  I don't use tags that much - it's easier to rely on smart searching.

 

Plus tags are more efficient and effective - one email covering two projects can be tagged (or searched) to be findable in connection with both.  In a folder structure you'd need to remember to copy that email to all affected folders..

 

Oh - and I think a major redesign of the fundamental structure of 50M+ databases might be a factor too...

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

My baseline opinion is that tags are no more nor less difficult to apply than a location in a folder tree, and in many cases they're more flexible. I think that there are usability improvements that could be made for tags with respect to search, and I think that stacks could serve the purpose of bringing some useful hierarchical organization to Evernote, but overall, I don't look at the absence of nested folders with much regret, if any.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I tend to try and think of a tag as a type of folder. EG. I store my expenses in EN so to add a receipt in a normal hierarchical system I would need to open :

 

Expenses --> 2013 --> September

 

Instead I have a main Archive notebook that holds everything and just tag the receipt September 2013. If I want to view all expenses for that month I can just click on the tag.

 

One point - not sure if its the same on the desktop clients, but in the web interface you can nest tags many levels deep, not sure if this is a new feature but only noticed it recently. 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I know that the EverNote team is pushing very hard to have people use the tags system.

And tags are great! But it doesn't always work.

 

Tags are cumbersome and require time and diligence to apply them.

 

I use EN for work and personal affairs.

For personal affairs, I have (most of the time) plenty of time. I use it to organise a trip, create a to do list, have some documents in there. Tags are great!

For work however, I do not have time to apply tags, I want to just add a note for a certain customer's project, I quickly want my stuff in EN. Tags are too time consuming!

 

For work I have multiple customers with multiple projects spanning accross multiple software products. 2 levels of folders are not enough! It becomes way too messy.

 

I see the use of tags and I use it when I can. But I also want to be able to use some sort of structure whenever I need to.

I can't see why the two cannot live together...

It seems like a fair request to me, and I'd prefer it if Evernote had more notebook options, because that would likely increase its appeal. Personally, though, I don't use notebooks or tags for organization, and I've been getting along just fine.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=367

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I tend to try and think of a tag as a type of folder. EG. I store my expenses in EN so to add a receipt in a normal hierarchical system I would need to open :

In my experience, it's not really useful to view a tag as a folder. Folders imply ownership (a note belongs to exactly one folder), while tags imply description (a note can have multiple tags). So you can then combine separate tags, which allows for multiple ways of organization. Anyway...

 

Expenses --> 2013 --> September

 

Instead I have a main Archive notebook that holds everything and just tag the receipt September 2013. If I want to view all expenses for that month I can just click on the tag.

Sure, you can do that. But then the question is how does that scale over time? Will you have tags "September 2013", as well as "January 2013", "February 2013", etc., in addition to "September 2014", as well as "January 2014", "February 2014", etc., etc.??

Instead, you could have something like tags for each month ("January", "February"...) and for each year ("2013", "2014"...), and apply as needed.

So you can do tag searches for "September" and "2013" (and "Expenses" perhaps, or search in a separate "Expenses" notebook; whatever) and see all of those notes. Or look for all expenses in 2013 using the "2013" tag. Or all September expenses across all years using the "September" tag. Etc.

Of course, it all depends on what works for you.

One point - not sure if its the same on the desktop clients, but in the web interface you can nest tags many levels deep, not sure if this is a new feature but only noticed it recently.

Yes, you can do that on the desktop clients, usually with more ease than on the mobile clients.

As GrumpyMonkey says, adding more hierarchy is a fair request (perhaps via subnotebooks or via stacks (which already allow you to organize -- and search -- multiple notebooks), but my take is that it's probably not going to happen any time soon if at all, so if you want to use Evernote, you'll need to stick with what they have now.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I tend to try and think of a tag as a type of folder. EG. I store my expenses in EN so to add a receipt in a normal hierarchical system I would need to open :

 

Expenses --> 2013 --> September

 

Instead I have a main Archive notebook that holds everything and just tag the receipt September 2013. If I want to view all expenses for that month I can just click on the tag.

 

One point - not sure if its the same on the desktop clients, but in the web interface you can nest tags many levels deep, not sure if this is a new feature but only noticed it recently.

 

I am a premium account user.

I love this service very much except the limitation of notes(250 note books).

I have 2325 notes now.

In order to reduce use the total number of notebooks,I try to use tags.

Now I have 129 notebooks and 198 tags.

Try to tag one note is a hard work in your software (198 tags and increasing @@)

I am also a pro user of Wiznote,tagging is easier in their software.

It need no scrolling and try to find out correct tags of a note.

Can developer improve it?

Change the limitations or change the interface,please!

Can you imagine try to scrolling 10000 tags for correct tagging?

It is surely a nightmare!

IMO, you're overtagging. IMO, some folks "overtag". Often, tags are not needed if you use descriptive titles, some tags, some notebooks/stacks & keywords. I have over 62,000 notes & have never reached the 250 notebook limit. I'd guess less than half my notes have any tags at all. Probably only about 1/3 of my notes have tags. Those that do have tags normally have only 1-3 tags. IE, all my bills are in Evernote. Although they are in a "bills" notebook, I can quickly & easily find my Cox cable bill from June 2009 by searching ALL notes because the title of that note includes the vendor (Cox) and the date of the bill in YYYYMMDD format. So a simple search of

intitle:cox intitle:200906*

will quickly find the ONE note which is the bill I'm looking for from over 62,000+ notes. And I didn't even use a tag.

You can also net the tags for organizational purposes only. This allows you to collapse the top tier so the nested tags do not show up. Or even the "hide unassigned" tags may be helpful.

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

 

 

Instead, you could have something like tags for each month ("January", "February"...) and for each year ("2013", "2014"...), and apply as needed.

So you can do tag searches for "September" and "2013" (and "Expenses" perhaps, or search in a separate "Expenses" notebook; whatever) and see all of those notes. Or look for all expenses in 2013 using the "2013" tag. Or all September expenses across all years using the "September" tag. Etc.

 

That's a good way of looking at it and I do have the tags for 2013 nested under "2013" but don't apply the tag as there's no need to see all receipts for a whole year. I used to have an expenses notebook but have recently tried to keep notebooks to a minimum and use tags and search more. Its also easy to go month by month when putting things together for the accountant.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I agree with Tomass that we need  an improved approach to Nesting.  I also tend to agree with Jefito that we should keep Notebooks and Tags separate.  What Tomass is describing is essentially a Nested Tag solution which I believe EN could benefit immensely from.  See my reply on:

Feature request: Autotag notes with tag hierarchy of nested tags

 

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/37385-feature-request-autotag-notes-with-tag-hierarchy-of-nested-tags/

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I am new to Evernote and still learning the ropes.  Can you make nested Notebook Stacks?  Or does Evernote only go one stack deep?

 

For example, I am working on a research project.  I create a Notebook Stack called "Project A", but then I need 4 more Notebook Stacks under that, i.e.:

 

  • Project A
    • Images
    • Plan
    • Research
      • Articles
      • Websites
      • Interviews
      • Papers
    • Supporting Docs

 

Can I create a hierarchy like this?  Or does tagging serve this function and everything just gets lumped under Project A with the tags Research, Plan, etc.

 

Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

The current canon:

 

* A Note contains content (text, attachments, etc.). A note belongs to exactly one notebook, and can be labelled by multiple tags.

 

* A Notebook contains only notes (not other notebooks, and not stacks). A notebook belongs to either one or zero stacks. You are allowed a maximum of 250 notebooks at present.

 

* A Stack contains only notebooks (not other stacks and not notes). 

 

* Tags can only label notes, and not other tags, notebooks or stacks. Tags can be nested for purposes of organization, but are otherwise semantically and functionally distinct, meaning that searches do not pay attention to tag hierarchies.

 

So in a word, no, you cannot make a hierarchy quite like that. You could make a project notebook ("Project A"), and add notes for supporting docs, images, plans, etc. Tag the notes accordingly ("Plan", "Research", etc.). There are other ways of organizing projects.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Thx Mashugana raising this question, I had the same in my mind this morning :-) .


 

So in a word, no, you cannot make a hierarchy quite like that. You could make a project notebook ("Project A"), and add notes for supporting docs, images, plans, etc. Tag the notes accordingly ("Plan", "Research", etc.). There are other ways of organizing projects.

 

Jefito,

any ideas or reference suggestion about different ways of organizing projects in Evernote. Any source that helps to find a way is appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

A lot depends on what you're trying to do; I think the best way to find references like this would be to just search the web for "organizing evernote projects" or just "organizing evernote". There are plenty of articles, and you'll also find posts here in these forums in the results (I usually use Google rather than the actual forum search here).

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Multi-level note books was my first thought when first seeing Evernote a long while ago, but making extensive use of tags is effective.

 

I agree that hierarchical notebooks would be an improvement though.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hello Dev's,

 

Could you add another level to the Notebook hierarchy. Right now when you create notebooks they are all sitting under "Notebooks". It would be great to be able to create sub catagories (collapsible) to better organize them.

 

Example:

 

Notebooks

    +[Level 1]

         Notebook1

         Notebook2

         Notebook3

   +[Level 2]

         Notebook1

         Notebook2

         etc....

 

 

Thanks,

 

Vince

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hi - you're familiar with the whole tags vs folders thing that's documented in detail in the forums?

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hello Dev's,

 

Could you add another level to the Notebook hierarchy. Right now when you create notebooks they are all sitting under "Notebooks". It would be great to be able to create sub catagories (collapsible) to better organize them.

 

Example:

 

Notebooks

    +[Level 1]

         Notebook1

         Notebook2

         Notebook3

   +[Level 2]

         Notebook1

         Notebook2

         etc....

 

 

Thanks,

 

Vince

 

This has been discussed already a lot on the board.  Please search the board for more info.  In a nutshell, EN uses notebooks, stacks (groups of notebooks), tags, descriptive titles & "keywords" to organize your notes.  This is a much more flexible method than nested notebooks, IMO & IME, especially the more notes you have.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

You are invited to seek out existing discussion on this topic in the forums. There's plenty. Short form: probably not in the foreseeable future.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Thank you everyone for the quick replies. I've tinkered with the tags but will look at them in more detail. I guess it's a matter of workflow usage coming from other products.

 

 

Vince

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

A couple of things to note:

 

A notebook only contains notes, not stacks and not other notebooks.

A stack contains only notebooks, and not other stacks or notes.

A note belongs to exactly one notebook, but may have multiple tags.

 

Notebooks are the coin of the realm when it comes to sharing groups of notes, keeping local notes (notes that are not synced to the Evernote server, for desktop apps) and offline notes (notes that are always available on mobile devices, even when you're not connected to the internet -- a premium feature). You can only use these facilities using notebooks, and not stacks or arbitrary groups of notes. Consider only creating notebooks when you must.

 

Searches have essentially three contexts: a single notebook, a single stack, or all notes (some clients allow you to search "personal" only or "business" only notes, but that's just behind-the scenes flim-flammery -- I'm talking about searches that use the search language, including saved searches). You can only have one context per search: either a single notebook or a single stack; otherwise it's all notes. Since stacks can hold multiple notebooks, that's the only way that you can search a strict subset of your notebooks at one time. Note that you cannot search for notes *not* in a particular notebook or stack.

 

Tags go across notebooks. This gives them a lot of flexibility in terms of categorization, since multiple tags can apply to any single note. You can also search for notes that do not have a particular tag. Note that the tag hierarchy is for organization only; tag searches do not take into consideration a tag's sub-tags when searching.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

We do all love a new hierarchy thread don't we?

Apparently we do. :)

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

A couple of things to note:

 

A notebook only contains notes, not stacks and not other notebooks.

A stack contains only notebooks, and not other stacks or notes.

A note belongs to exactly one notebook, but may have multiple tags.

 

Notebooks are the coin of the realm when it comes to sharing groups of notes, keeping local notes (notes that are not synced to the Evernote server, for desktop apps) and offline notes (notes that are always available on mobile devices, even when you're not connected to the internet -- a premium feature). You can only use these facilities using notebooks, and not stacks or arbitrary groups of notes. Consider only creating notebooks when you must.

 

Searches have essentially three contexts: a single notebook, a single stack, or all notes (some clients allow you to search "personal" only or "business" only notes, but that's just behind-the scenes flim-flammery -- I'm talking about searches that use the search language, including saved searches). You can only have one context per search: either a single notebook or a single stack; otherwise it's all notes. Since stacks can hold multiple notebooks, that's the only way that you can search a strict subset of your notebooks at one time. Note that you cannot search for notes *not* in a particular notebook or stack.

 

Tags go across notebooks. This gives them a lot of flexibility in terms of categorization, since multiple tags can apply to any single note. You can also search for notes that do not have a particular tag. Note that the tag hierarchy is for organization only; tag searches do not take into consideration a tag's sub-tags when searching.

Great explanation, Jeff.

 

I should mention that I was really frustrated with the lack of hierarchical structure with Evernote when I first started, but once I fully embraced tags, I realized that I could find any note faster by good use of tags than by drilling down through the hierarchy. Now I am actually thinking I can make do with less notebooks and more tags.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hi,

it's been years that I await this feature to be incorporated.

It's really annoying to be limited to 1 level of nesting folder.

When working on projects, I need more and i'm sure i'm not the only one.

 

This is the only feature missing that keep me from using Evernote for all my projects.
Any plan to add this ?

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hi,

it's been years that I await this feature to be incorporated.

It's really annoying to be limited to 1 level of nesting folder.

When working on projects, I need more and i'm sure i'm not the only one.

 

This is the only feature missing that keep me from using Evernote for all my projects.

Any plan to add this ?

 

  • EN does not discuss their roadmap or ETAs
  • There is no indication EN has any plans to add sub notebooks
  • Stacks, notebooks, tags, keywords & descriptive titles are very effective at organizing & retrieving notes.  This has been discussed at great length on the board already.  Please search the board on sub notebooks/sub folders/nested notebooks/etc. for more info, should you need/want it.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Just adding my voice to the forum. I completely agree that nested stacks would be amazingly useful. I know that many EN users will say "That's boring." or "You need to get over the directory/subdirectory thing and use tags.", but nested stacks would be useful for tag users or non-tag users. I need to be able to file things quickly. I collect so much random data throughout my day: pictures, one sentence notes, voice clips, whatever, and then at the end of the day I sort it into the appropriate notebook. Sure tagging works well, but sometimes I want to see all of my notes (tagged explicitly for the notebook or not) contained within one notebook. Sure, other times I want to see all relevant tagged info, but having a notebook view is more convenient for me. I just really feel that having nested stacks would be a great feature for those of us that are less tag-oriented.

 

That being said, I LOVE Evernote, and the team has done an AMAZING job creating a product I use every day, and they even make it viable to use for free with minimal advertisement. Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Sure tagging works well, but sometimes I want to see all of my notes (tagged explicitly for the notebook or not) contained within one notebook. Sure, other times I want to see all relevant tagged info, but having a notebook view is more convenient for me. I just really feel that having nested stacks would be a great feature for those of us that are less tag-oriented.

I really don't understand the conclusion, based on your premise (which I'm also at odds to figure out). You want to see all of your notes "contained within one notebook" (even though they're really not; btw, the phrase "tagged explicitly for the notebook" doesn't really make sense in the Evernote world: tags are not notebooks), but somehow this implies that nested stacks are the solution? I don't follow; if you want to see all of your notes, then just use the "All notebooks" feature. You don't need nested stacks for that.

That being said, I do understand that many folks would find nesting of stacks (or notebooks) useful. It's just not clear to me how your example supports that usage. Did I miss something?

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

The problem with Tags is they can get out of control.  You end up with so many of them you forget what  your options were.  I know this can be quelled through planning but they are so easy to create by accident the list becomes unweildy.  Plus they have no context.  Nesting notebooks give specific context tags cannot.

 

I learned this trying to implement the The Secret Weapon setup.  It made perfect sense until you have to do extensive tag management.  I loved it because it played to my need to over organize, which is my biggest fault.  The goal is to keep this simple and a hierarchy to guide you is the only real way to do this.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

The problem with Tags is they can get out of control.  You end up with so many of them you forget what  your options were.  I know this can be quelled through planning but they are so easy to create by accident the list becomes unweildy.  Plus they have no context.  Nesting notebooks give specific context tags cannot.

 

I learned this trying to implement the The Secret Weapon setup.  It made perfect sense until you have to do extensive tag management.  I loved it because it played to my need to over organize, which is my biggest fault.  The goal is to keep this simple and a hierarchy to guide you is the only real way to do this.

Yes, you need to do some planning and forethought before you begin with Evernote, just as with any organizational scheme in any other endeavor.

 

This is not either-or: you can use tags *and* notebooks.

 

I only occasionally create a tag by accident (I wish it were even harder to do that), but in practice I don't find that difficult to deal with. An occasional scan over the list takes care of mistake tags.

 

Tags give themselves context (the context of description, much like adjectives),even more-so when used in conjunction with other tags, notebooks, attributes and text search. Plus tags do things that notebooks cannot: they allow you to cross-categorize notes, rather than have them be stuck in rigid hierarchies. Not everything fits in exactly one place in a hierarchy. Traipsing up and down nested hierarchies is the epitome of unwieldy-ness. Let me describe what I want, not remember where I put it.

 

I don't do extensive tag management. I keep things simple. Don't over-tag. Don't over-notebook. Don't kid yourself: hierarchy is not the only effective organizational scheme in this world.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

 The goal is to keep this simple and a hierarchy to guide you is the only real way to do this.

For my purposes, I would rephrase, the goal is to keep things simple and the best way to do that is avoid structures, such as a hierarchy, that cause you to spend too much time trying to remember where you put things.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

The problem with Tags is they can get out of control.  You end up with so many of them you forget what  your options were.  I know this can be quelled through planning but they are so easy to create by accident the list becomes unweildy.  Plus they have no context.  Nesting notebooks give specific context tags cannot.

 

I learned this trying to implement the The Secret Weapon setup.  It made perfect sense until you have to do extensive tag management.  I loved it because it played to my need to over organize, which is my biggest fault.  The goal is to keep this simple and a hierarchy to guide you is the only real way to do this.

I was thinking of this differently. If you have a fault that you tend to over organize, then simple using tags helps keep it simpler. The hierarchy is the complex part. Or trying to over organize by creating a tag hierarchy is also complex. I almost never have problems finding notes with search and simple tags. I have stopped using the Notebook hierarchy as a way to find things except where I am sharing a whole notebook with a client or student.

 

Yes, I do end up with many tags, but it is easy to find the one you want as they show up when you start typing. And if I created 2-3 different ways of tagging the same thing, it is easy to review my tag list and retag some note and remove tags. 

Certainly this takes less time than trying to have a tag hierarchy.

 

I am in favor of "free range" tags. :)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Thank you all so much.  I am converting my mind set to tags.  I discovered that you can nest tags into logical groups (work, home, etc.) and that you can quickly tag a not by dragging it over the tag - that made things really fast.

 

Thanks again for the help.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Using Evernote as it is, or finding another piece of software is needlessly restrictive list of the choices available.

Lobbying Evernote to support a feature you want is a perfectly legitimate choice. Nested Notebooks is an example of just such a feature, and lobbying for it's inclusion is perfectly reasonable.

Unfortunately, the choice of nested structures versus tags is a matter of the original Data Structure decision and is probably fundamental.  To Google, it makes sense since most of the data they address is unstructured and is difficult to keep a directory in a tabular format.  In Evernote, it was just a bad choice and is probably irreparable without a complete rewrite, or a performance-diminishing overlay structure.

 

Evernote is still very useful, but it really is a shame that it can't be so much more so.  Use tags where you can.  I know it's twice the work, but it will help you index important data.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

 In Evernote, it was just a bad choice and is probably irreparable without a complete rewrite, or a performance-diminishing overlay structure.

 

Evernote is still very useful, but it really is a shame that it can't be so much more so.  Use tags where you can.  I know it's twice the work, but it will help you index important data.

 

 

The fact that Evernote does not rely on what I consider to be an outdated metaphor of a filing cabinet is why I chose and continue to use Evernote. I find tags infinitely more powerful and at the same time more simple. Combined with the ability to search, I can actually find and use what I need rather than spending time trying to remember which of several possible folders I may have put something in. 

 

My larger point is that Evernote did not make a mistake. They made a considered choice that works extremely well for lots of people. It is unlikely that they are going to change anytime soon. 

 

Best of luck. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Which I suppose brings me to whether or not, given the depth of change you speculate is required, nested notebooks would give you anything that a bit of familiarity with tagging wouldn't? I think probably so.

If you can nest notebooks, you then have a more flexible and discrete method of offline notebook access / notebook sharing.

It's fun to speculate, but I'm not really seeing that (I don't actually understand the bit about 'discrete method of offline access'). Might depend on how they go about implementing such properties. Does a nested notebook get shared if the parent is shared? Same question for offline access. Does a note belong to a notebook that's not its immediate parent (this goes to goes to notebook: search)? Having answered these basic questions, ow do the answers affect the flexibility and discreteness of offline access?

If EN allowed you to offline / share on the basis of a tag, that advantage would evaporate I suppose.

Tags are different beasts altogether. They can cut across the current stack / notebook hierarchy, and I'd expect them to do so across any deeper notebook hierarchy. That makes them *a lot* more flexible than notebooks in general.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Evernote is still very useful, but it really is a shame that it can't be so much more so.  Use tags where you can.  I know it's twice the work, but it will help you index important data.

My philosophy is somewhat different: use notebooks only where you must, and use tags for everything else.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

 

My philosophy is somewhat different: use notebooks only where you must, and use tags for everything else.

 

 

Tags are indeed useful.  That notwithstanding, they are not a hierarchical structure.  They are...tags!  You're not being organized using tags - you're tagging.  That's OK if your data search needs are significantly random and your frequency of access is small.

 

Consider this.  You use evernote to keep records of product builds.  You have software products and hardware products.  Ignoring the former, you have seven families of hardware products.  Any family has 2-4 SKU's, and each SKU has 30-200 components, assembly instructions and reams of test data.  How are you going to organize efficiently with tags?

 

Tags are very useful for those component that span SKUs, but are you really going to tag each test report as "Product" and "Hardware" and "Family 4" and "SKU 3" and "FadeMarginReport27"?  Let's be real!  Then lets say you want to find those reports whose outlier case was +32dBm.  This is a real world use for evernote and it simply can't be properly done with tags!  So for those who say 'antiquated' your agenda (or simple use case) is showing.

 

As you can see, I have only great respect for the inclusion of tags.  And I believe that it's so obvious that a hierarchical structure is better, that the only conclusion left is the data structure decision is made and there is no turning back.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

And I believe that it's so obvious that a hierarchical structure is better, that the only conclusion left is the data structure decision is made and there is no turning back.

 

 

And I believe it's so obvious that hierarchical structures can be a waste of time. Did I put the car insurance information in the folder called "Car"? Or did I put it in the folder called "Bills"? Or the folder called "Financial"? Do I put the article on some of the less expected benefits of exercise under "Fitness"? Or "Mental Health"? Or "Productivity"? Do I need to make an entirely new folder for the copy of the score of Vivaldi's Gloria?  Yes, many of my notes have multiple tags; it takes but seconds to add them. Between them and searching, I  generally find what I want more quickly that trying to remember in which of the many possible folders I might have carefully filed something. Way too many things in my life cross categories. This is a real world use for Evernote. You may think it a "simple use case" but trying to keep a life full of documents organized hardly seems so to me. 

 

Needs vary. It sounds as if yours are not met by Evernote. That's ok. But to think that makes Evernote's decisions on how it should structure data some how deficient seems to indicate a certain rigidity of thought. Perhaps it's all that hierarchical filing?   ;)

 

Best of luck. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

 

Sure tagging works well, but sometimes I want to see all of my notes (tagged explicitly for the notebook or not) contained within one notebook. Sure, other times I want to see all relevant tagged info, but having a notebook view is more convenient for me. I just really feel that having nested stacks would be a great feature for those of us that are less tag-oriented.

I really don't understand the conclusion, based on your premise (which I'm also at odds to figure out). You want to see all of your notes "contained within one notebook" (even though they're really not; btw, the phrase "tagged explicitly for the notebook" doesn't really make sense in the Evernote world: tags are not notebooks), but somehow this implies that nested stacks are the solution? I don't follow; if you want to see all of your notes, then just use the "All notebooks" feature. You don't need nested stacks for that.

That being said, I do understand that many folks would find nesting of stacks (or notebooks) useful. It's just not clear to me how your example supports that usage. Did I miss something?

 

 

I was all on the Nested Stacks bandwagon, but in making an argument against tags, I had to explore them. I'm now ignoring notebooks and focusing on tags. They let me create as many layers of nesting as I want like Outlook folders or file folders, plus I can have more than one tag on a note, so it can be associated with more than one concept.

 

Downside, at least in the desktop app, is that with a stack, if I click on the top level of the stack in the sidebar, I can see a list of all notes in all of the stack's child notebooks. If I click on a parent tag, I don't see all the notes in its descendant tags. I think if showing notes in a tag's descendant tags was possible (maybe a setting users can toggle), it would make the tags more useful and better fit the scenario zuzubeas is describing.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Tags are indeed useful.  That notwithstanding, they are not a hierarchical structure.  They are...tags!  You're not being organized using tags - you're tagging.  That's OK if your data search needs are significantly random and your frequency of access is small.

Correct, but not necessarily so. There have been a number of suggestions made in the forums as to how Evernote could expose the hierarchical nature of their tag organization to the search language.

 

Consider this.  You use evernote to keep records of product builds.  You have software products and hardware products.  Ignoring the former, you have seven families of hardware products.  Any family has 2-4 SKU's, and each SKU has 30-200 components, assembly instructions and reams of test data.  How are you going to organize efficiently with tags?

 

Tags are very useful for those component that span SKUs, but are you really going to tag each test report as "Product" and "Hardware" and "Family 4" and "SKU 3" and "FadeMarginReport27"?  Let's be real!  Then lets say you want to find those reports whose outlier case was +32dBm.  This is a real world use for evernote and it simply can't be properly done with tags!  So for those who say 'antiquated' your agenda (or simple use case) is showing.

You need a database, not Evernote for this sort of thing. Evernote employes a database, of course, but doesn't expose it to the the user. There's no question that some organizational problems are particularly well-suited to hierarchical solutions, but that doesn't imply therefore all products that deal with collections of objects need to offer a hierarchical model. You use the tool that suits your problem set. In this case, that tool is probably not Evernote.

Of course, if you insist on using Evernote, I see a mix of notebooks combined with tags or possibly just note titles might handle it. Depends on how you intend to use this collection, what your searches would be like, etc. ...

As you can see, I have only great respect for the inclusion of tags.  And I believe that it's so obvious that a hierarchical structure is better, that the only conclusion left is the data structure decision is made and there is no turning back.

The decision was made, and they could change their minds at any time. But in the current world of Evernote, there are some problems that don't lend themselves to their current architecture. That's all most of us are saying here, and not that it's wrong to ask.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Downside, at least in the desktop app, is that with a stack, if I click on the top level of the stack in the sidebar, I can see a list of all notes in all of the stack's child notebooks. If I click on a parent tag, I don't see all the notes in its descendant tags. I think if showing notes in a tag's descendant tags was possible (maybe a setting users can toggle), it would make the tags more useful and better fit the scenario zuzubeas is describing.

Right. There have been suggestions made to extend tag search to handle this case, but that's not something that Evernote has chosen to implement. It might be related to (or at least complicated by) the fact that tag hierarchies get lost when they're shared with other users

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

You can avoid multiple tags per note by creating "full pathname" tagnames.

For instance :

A root tag name:      "Software"

a nested tag name:  "Software/SKU1" 

and a component inside this gets the tag name  "Software/SKU1/Comp1"  and so on. If you like you can hide these tags inside a nested tag view.

This way you need to assign one tag only to a particular note...

 

Eric

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

You can avoid multiple tags per note by creating "full pathname" tagnames.

For instance :

A root tag name:      "Software"

a nested tag name:  "Software/SKU1" 

and a component inside this gets the tag name  "Software/SKU1/Comp1"  and so on. If you like you can hide these tags inside a nested tag view.

This way you need to assign one tag only to a particular note...

 

Eric

Yep, this approach is known, and it can help out with certain scenarios (for example, if you want hierarchical tag searches, it's basically the only way), *plus* you can accomplish mixed AND / OR searching in some cases. The down side is that it's awkward to build and maintain this explicitly coded hierarchy. Otherwise, a strict application of this approach does diminish the flexibility of tags to cut across hierarchies, and you need to know the hierarchy in order to search effectively -- if you don't know that one tag, you may find it hard to find your notes.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Why can't we just have stacks within stacks?  Seems unnecessarily limiting, especially for people who like to visually organize collections of data.

 

For example, I would love to have a stack called "Creative Projects" where I store notebooks for projects I'm working on, or stacks for similar projects.  For example  

  • Notebook: Default
  • Notebook: Work
  • [ Stack: Creative Projects ]
    • [stack: Special Effects ]
      • Notebook: Zombies
      • Notebook: Appliances
      • Notebook: Animatronics
    • [ Stack: Programming ]
      • Notebook: Raspberry Pi
      • Notebook: Node JS
      • Notebook: lolcode
  • Notebook:  Things to complain about on the internet

 

A parent/child relational hierarchy seems like a very logical/natural way to organize notebooks.  

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Why can't we just have stacks within stacks?  Seems unnecessarily limiting, especially for people who like to visually organize collections of data.

 

For example, I would love to have a stack called "Creative Projects" where I store notebooks for projects I'm working on, or stacks for similar projects.  For example  

  • Notebook: Default
  • Notebook: Work
  • [ Stack: Creative Projects ]
    • [stack: Special Effects ]
      • Notebook: Zombies
      • Notebook: Appliances
      • Notebook: Animatronics
    • [ Stack: Programming ]
      • Notebook: Raspberry Pi
      • Notebook: Node JS
      • Notebook: lolcode
  • Notebook:  Things to complain about on the internet

 

A parent/child relational hierarchy seems like a very logical/natural way to organize notebooks.  

 

 

Much discussion already exists on nested/folders/stacks/notebooks/sub notebooks/sub stacks/etc.  Please use the search function, if you want more info. Everyone seems to think posting an example will "enlighten" Evernote.  Believe me, they get it.  However, they've chosen a different methodology.  And in a nutshell, I find nested whatevers limiting.  Using tags, descriptive titles & keywords is MUCH more flexible.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Why can't we just have stacks within stacks?  Seems unnecessarily limiting, especially for people who like to visually organize collections of data.

The simple truth of it is that Evernote has chosen not to implement all but a minimal amount of hierarchical structure to their note storage. In this, they're akin to GMail (as opposed to MS Outlook).

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Much discussion already exists on nested/folders/stacks/notebooks/sub notebooks/sub stacks/etc.  Please use the search function, if you want more info. 

 

I'm well aware that there are many threads where this issue is being discussed (a good indicator of the demand for this functionality), and with all things being equal (and this thread popping to the top of my search, yes, I used search), I chose to post here.

 

 

Everyone seems to think posting an example will "enlighten" Evernote.  Believe me, they get it.  However, they've chosen a different methodology.  And in a nutshell, I find nested whatevers limiting.  Using tags, descriptive titles & keywords is MUCH more flexible.

 

 

That rather negative statement sets off so many alarm bells with me.  1: So a lot of users have this desire?  2: All those users are wrong for wanting that functionality?  3: They are also wrong for trying to clarify their desire with practical examples?  It's all a bit reminiscent to the "You're holding it wrong" iPhone debacle.  If a significant volume of users have an expectation of functionality that is unmet, maybe it should be looked into until a resolution or compromise is found.  (clearly we are not there yet)

 

At the end of the day, an application should be able to meet the needs of its users and adapt to how users wish to use it.  Not all users are the same in terms of needs, experience, preferred interaction patterns, etc.  And through good UX you can meet the needs of a varied user base.

 

With good UI design you can have several methods of accomplishing a specific goal without any negative impact on other functionality.  Just because tags are powerful (which I completely agree with) does not mean other methods of organization (especially visual) should be abandoned or are irrelevant.  The addition of nested stacks does not detract from the value of tags, it merely supplements it and provides a visual representation of an organizational structure than many people are familiar with and inclined to expect.  One great thing about good UI design is you can have apples AND oranges if you plan properly and the additional functionality does not create conflicts, clutter, or paradox of choice.

 

Please keep in mind that just because I am expressing desire for an additional feature does not mean I don't like the application.  I love Evernote, and I understand your desire to rush in and defend it.  But lets not slam users for respectfully wanting more or varied functionality.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

 

Much discussion already exists on nested/folders/stacks/notebooks/sub notebooks/sub stacks/etc.  Please use the search function, if you want more info. 

 

I'm well aware that there are many threads where this issue is being discussed (a good indicator of the demand for this functionality), and with all things being equal (and this thread popping to the top of my search, yes, I used search), I chose to post here.

 

 

Everyone seems to think posting an example will "enlighten" Evernote.  Believe me, they get it.  However, they've chosen a different methodology.  And in a nutshell, I find nested whatevers limiting.  Using tags, descriptive titles & keywords is MUCH more flexible.

 

 

That rather negative statement sets off so many alarm bells with me.  1: So a lot of users have this desire?  2: All those users are wrong for wanting that functionality?  3: They are also wrong for trying to clarify their desire with practical examples?  It's all a bit reminiscent to the "You're holding it wrong" iPhone debacle.  If a significant volume of users have an expectation of functionality that is unmet, maybe it should be looked into until a resolution or compromise is found.  (clearly we are not there yet)

 

At the end of the day, an application should be able to meet the needs of its users and adapt to how users wish to use it.  Not all users are the same in terms of needs, experience, preferred interaction patterns, etc.  And through good UX you can meet the needs of a varied user base.

 

With good UI design you can have several methods of accomplishing a specific goal without any negative impact on other functionality.  Just because tags are powerful (which I completely agree with) does not mean other methods of organization (especially visual) should be abandoned or are irrelevant.  The addition of nested stacks does not detract from the value of tags, it merely supplements it and provides a visual representation of an organizational structure than many people are familiar with and inclined to expect.  One great thing about good UI design is you can have apples AND oranges if you plan properly and the additional functionality does not create conflicts, clutter, or paradox of choice.

 

Please keep in mind that just because I am expressing desire for an additional feature does not mean I don't like the application.  I love Evernote, and I understand your desire to rush in and defend it.  But lets not slam users for respectfully wanting more or varied functionality.

 

 

First, no one said you are wrong for wanting this desire or asking for it & I don't even know where you pulled that from.  I'm simply saying many of us who devote (freely) our time to this board are not going to reinterate what we've already posted in other threads. It's simple common courtesy to search a board on a topic that may have already been discussed.  No software app is going to please all their users.  It's impossible.  Again, if you want more info on this topic that has already been discussed at great length, please use the search function.  If you elect to not do that, that's fine with me as well.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hi all, thanks for the discussion. Stack a notebook underneath another notebook was my first thought to use Evernote too. So it's glad to know the restriction and ways to work around. @Jeff - appreciate your 1st post to the question. Very useful for a beginner for Evernote.  :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hi everyone,

 

This is my first post, so please bear with me.

 

I'm using Evernote 4.6.1 on Windows 7 64 bit. I'm trying to create nested notebook stacks, but I haven't found any menu option that enables that function. Is it possible to do what I want to accomplish?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Hi everyone,

 

This is my first post, so please bear with me.

 

I'm using Evernote 4.6.1 on Windows 7 64 bit. I'm trying to create nested notebook stacks, but I haven't found any menu option that enables that function. Is it possible to do what I want to accomplish?

 

Thanks

Stacks cannot be nested & notebooks canot be nested. Stacks can contain notebooks but not other stacks. Notebooks cannot contain other notebooks or stacks. For more intricate organizing, you can use tags, descriptive titles and "keywords".

 

Hey all - AND WHY IS IT  that stacks can't contain stacks??

It would be a powerfull feature.

I know EN want us to have the business edition, then you can have multiple accounts, and in that way have another dimention to EN, but EN is in competition with OneNote in businesses, and because OneNote has several more layers it wins. I like EN because it supports all my platforms: Android, Windows, FireOS, IOS.

If OneNote were to be available to all platforms, I think because of lack of layering, nesting and so on EN will loose the battle in businesslife by far. That would be a shame.

 

If stacks were could contain stacks and they were colored if containing stacks, it was easy to oversee. Maybe EN development can see the potential?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hey all - AND WHY IS IT  that stacks can't contain stacks??

It would be a powerfull feature.

I know EN want us to have the business edition, then you can have multiple accounts, and in that way have another dimention to EN, but EN is in competition with OneNote in businesses, and because OneNote has several more layers it wins. I like EN because it supports all my platforms: Android, Windows, FireOS, IOS.

If OneNote were to be available to all platforms, I think because of lack of layering, nesting and so on EN will loose the battle in businesslife by far. That would be a shame.

 

If stacks were could contain stacks and they were colored if containing stacks, it was easy to oversee. Maybe EN development can see the potential?

Trust me, this topic has been revisited many times (search the forums for "hierarchy", etc.). To date, Evernote has not seemed interested in providing notebooks that contain notebooks or stacks that con stacks or any other arbitrarily nestable organizational constructs except for tabs. That's not to say that it wouldn't be useful for some users, nor that it won't ever happen, just that it's been requested before.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hi everyone,

 

This is my first post, so please bear with me.

 

I'm using Evernote 4.6.1 on Windows 7 64 bit. I'm trying to create nested notebook stacks, but I haven't found any menu option that enables that function. Is it possible to do what I want to accomplish?

 

Thanks

 

Hi everyone,

 

This is my first post, so please bear with me.

 

I'm using Evernote 4.6.1 on Windows 7 64 bit. I'm trying to create nested notebook stacks, but I haven't found any menu option that enables that function. Is it possible to do what I want to accomplish?

 

Thanks

Stacks cannot be nested & notebooks canot be nested. Stacks can contain notebooks but not other stacks. Notebooks cannot contain other notebooks or stacks. For more intricate organizing, you can use tags, descriptive titles and "keywords".

Hey all - AND WHY IS IT  that stacks can't contain stacks??

It would be a powerfull feature.

I know EN want us to have the business edition, then you can have multiple accounts, and in that way have another dimention to EN, but EN is in competition with OneNote in businesses, and because OneNote has several more layers it wins. I like EN because it supports all my platforms: Android, Windows, FireOS, IOS.

If OneNote were to be available to all platforms, I think because of lack of layering, nesting and so on EN will loose the battle in businesslife by far. That would be a shame.

 

If stacks were could contain stacks and they were colored if containing stacks, it was easy to oversee. Maybe EN development can see the potential?

I don't know why. I think the answer for the last six years has been to use tags.

 http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/28871-feature-request-nested-stacks-multiple-notebook-levels/

I've also suggested they have more of a notebook hierarchy. It wouldn't do me any good, because the vast majority of my notes are in a single notebook, but I do think it would please a lot of users. If i had to guess, I'd say there is a reason on the backend that an infinite number of notebooks and an infinite amount of nesting would affect performance.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Had a browse through the Evernote App Center (see below) - formerly known as Trunk.  There's a link to Tusktools in there who do have a folder hierarchy thingy - Treeliner - that looks as if it might be interesting...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I've also suggested they have more of a notebook hierarchy. It wouldn't do me any good, because the vast majority of my notes are in a single notebook, but I do think it would please a lot of users. If i had to guess, I'd say there is a reason on the backend that an infinite number of notebooks and an infinite amount of nesting would affect performance.

Not sure that it it's a performance thing; it seems to just be a choice on their part. And at this point, it would entail some measure of re-architecting to make stacks nest arbitrarily. Currently they only exist -- so far as the API reflects, and maybe in actual implementation -- as a string in a notebook (http://dev.evernote.com/doc/reference/NoteStore.html#Fn_NoteStore_listNotebooks and http://dev.evernote.com/doc/reference/Types.html#Struct_Notebook). Changing that means changes to the Evernote API, which means changing the Evernote clients plus their respective UIs, and also any third party applications that use on stacks. Not impossible, for sure, but they'd probably need to want it a lot to take on that amount of work. I don't get any sense that they do (not that I know what's going on inside their doors).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Gazumped, thank you for the Treeliner tip! I just signed up for the beta testing. It looks very promising!

Wordsgood :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

(first time poster here) - I've been trying EverNote for several months now... seeing if it is comfortable to use. In general, I really like it. I have to agree though, nested categories (regardless of terminology) is the one single downfall to the system. And it really is a huge one.

 

If it's true that this has been a highly requested feature for many years, why in the world don't they find a way to deliver what people want? That doesn't make any sense to me. At least offer it as a 'paid' feature, or sell a plug-in we could install, or something.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

(first time poster here) - I've been trying EverNote for several months now... seeing if it is comfortable to use. In general, I really like it. I have to agree though, nested categories (regardless of terminology) is the one single downfall to the system. And it really is a huge one.

 

If it's true that this has been a highly requested feature for many years, why in the world don't they find a way to deliver what people want? That doesn't make any sense to me. At least offer it as a 'paid' feature, or sell a plug-in we could install, or something.

If you want arbitrary nesting, then you should use tags, which offer arbitrary nesting (by the way, when someone uses the term "category", I think tags or labels, not notebooks / folders; things in the world belong to multiple categories, which is expressible using tags). As to why they don't offer that in the notebook structure, I don't exactly know, but if you read  this (lengthy) topic, you might get an idea of where they're coming from: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/28871-feature-request-nested-stacks-multiple-notebook-levels/. For my use case, tags work great, and they're much more flexible than nested notebooks / stacks / folders / what-have-yous, organization-wise. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

OK, interesting....  I don't automatically associate tags with the ability to organize in a hierarchical structure. That being said, I can see the benifits and I’m going to give that a try to see how it works. That may make all the difference in my overall experience with this software.

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

(first time poster here) - I've been trying EverNote for several months now... seeing if it is comfortable to use. In general, I really like it. I have to agree though, nested categories (regardless of terminology) is the one single downfall to the system. And it really is a huge one.

 

If it's true that this has been a highly requested feature for many years, why in the world don't they find a way to deliver what people want? That doesn't make any sense to me. At least offer it as a 'paid' feature, or sell a plug-in we could install, or something.

There is a lot of discussion on the board already on the topic. Please search the board for these threads which may be very helpful. In a nutshell, EN's system is MUCH more flexible than a nested folder system, especially the more notes you have. An example jefito has used a lot is how to file a red, rubber ball. Does it go under red? Round? Rubber? Toy? Ball? With tags (and/or keywords) you can use all of them & not have to delve into the bowels of your hard drive looking for the image of the red, rubber ball. I think EN was very wise in choosing this methodology.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

OK, interesting....  I don't automatically associate tags with the ability to organize in a hierarchical structure. That being said, I can see the benifits and I’m going to give that a try to see how it works. That may make all the difference in my overall experience with this software.

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

I have to admit that it took a bit of adjusting on my part when I first started using EN. But once you "get it", you realize how powerful & flexible it is to not be restricted to hierarchical folders.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

OK, interesting....  I don't automatically associate tags with the ability to organize in a hierarchical structure. That being said, I can see the benifits and I’m going to give that a try to see how it works. That may make all the difference in my overall experience with this software.

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

Feel free to ask for other users' experience. There are a number of good approaches, and one or another might fit your use case. Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Hello all, very interesting discussion here, and yes I agree tags can be a great thing, but for sorting not for filling the system. From the perspective of filling EN from multiple sources e.g. your phone, your iPad, your android tablet, from the web via the pc at the library, by PostIts and so many more sources, it is very quickly becomeing cluttered, and you will have to use some time for sorting and tagging. 

 

If there was an opportunity for nested notebooks, it would be a lot easier to fill in the collected information directly in that notebook at that level it belongs to.I think it would be difficult to prove me wrong here, especially because it takes only one process to store information and to sort it. Hence it should be in the spirit of EN. 

 

When it comes to using the notes it is completely true that tags are a very powerful tool. I mean look at Gmail, it's built on it, with great success. But like Gmail and the insight of Google developers, Evernote developers should or ought to look at the ever ongoing discussion about multi level nested notebooks. 

 

From my perspective as a professional collector of information, this is about minimising processes to collect, and minimises the possibilities for storing their note under the wrong subject.

 

I have tried using tags and can now with confidence claim, it took me twice as long to store data with two or three tags, compared to finding one notebook on a list of over 150 notebooks and stored in that.So to be "lean" about it, or should we call it rational, it strikes me as an oddity that this should be such a big topic in Evernote forum. The question must be what stops development from building it into the very great product that Evernote actually is.

 

Of course that's just my opinion, but I do ask of you who has another opinion and swears to tags, please do provide a simple description maybe a link to a discussion where someone has describes an equally easy way to use tags as I describe storing data above here.

 

Another perspective could be, with so much attention on this isn't its about choice and freedom of choice. Maybe if there was a choice both paradigms would be equally popular. Don't you think so?

 

Evernote is in competition with Onenote, that is a fact of market. Evernote is slowly gaining market shares and is becoming ever more popular, but as you can see in this forum, the more professional users are getting, the more we use it for everything, the more often the question about nested notebooks are coming up. It is coming up a lot these days.

 

Sorry for the lenghty argument!

 

/Lars

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

In my opinion one of the key reasons there are so many recurring comments about these big thorny subjects is due to the lack of concrete responses from Evernote.

 

Back in the old days, Dave Engberg (Evenote CTO) kept us aware of what was possible and what was not. But since he has moved on, we are buried in a sea of posts from users asking the same question over and over. The evangelists try to offer some guidance, but they are users as well with no direct knowledge of where Evernote is going. Some Evernote staff jump in on specific issues, but I am talking about the really big issues that never fade away. If there were some official guidance on these issues, it would give many of us the opportunity to tilt at new windmills.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

In my opinion one of the key reasons there are so many recurring comments about these big thorny subjects is due to the lack of concrete responses from Evernote.

 

Back in the old days, Dave Engberg (Evenote CTO) kept us aware of what was possible and what was not. But since he has moved on, we are buried in a sea of posts from users asking the same question over and over. The evangelists try to offer some guidance, but they are users as well with no direct knowledge of where Evernote is going. Some Evernote staff jump in on specific issues, but I am talking about the really big issues that never fade away. If there were some official guidance on these issues, it would give many of us the opportunity to tilt at new windmills.

The general rules governing feature requests are:

1) Evernote staff don't usually like to repeat themselves.

2) Evernote staff are generally not allowed to discuss future development plans.

Dave was pretty clear in the linked topic: they're not looking at adding hierarchical structures, but that wouldn't stop them from doing it some time in the future. The second part, the bit about "some time in the future" is a bit of a hedge ("never say never"), but given rule #2, they're probably not going to talk about that if it's in the works until it's well along in the development process. Which leads us back to the main point: they're not looking at adding hierarchical structures. So unless you know of some statement by Evernote staffers that contradict that, then it's about as concrete a statement of official guidance as you can expect, even if it's not particularly recent.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

In my opinion one of the key reasons there are so many recurring comments about these big thorny subjects is due to the lack of concrete responses from Evernote.

 

Back in the old days, Dave Engberg (Evenote CTO) kept us aware of what was possible and what was not. But since he has moved on, we are buried in a sea of posts from users asking the same question over and over. The evangelists try to offer some guidance, but they are users as well with no direct knowledge of where Evernote is going. Some Evernote staff jump in on specific issues, but I am talking about the really big issues that never fade away. If there were some official guidance on these issues, it would give many of us the opportunity to tilt at new windmills.

 

 

 

In my opinion one of the key reasons there are so many recurring comments about these big thorny subjects is due to the lack of concrete responses from Evernote.

 

Back in the old days, Dave Engberg (Evenote CTO) kept us aware of what was possible and what was not. But since he has moved on, we are buried in a sea of posts from users asking the same question over and over. The evangelists try to offer some guidance, but they are users as well with no direct knowledge of where Evernote is going. Some Evernote staff jump in on specific issues, but I am talking about the really big issues that never fade away. If there were some official guidance on these issues, it would give many of us the opportunity to tilt at new windmills.

The general rules governing feature requests are:

1) Evernote staff don't usually like to repeat themselves.

2) Evernote staff are generally not allowed to discuss future development plans.

Dave was pretty clear in the linked topic: they're not looking at adding hierarchical structures, but that wouldn't stop them from doing it some time in the future. The second part, the bit about "some time in the future" is a bit of a hedge ("never say never"), but given rule #2, they're probably not going to talk about that if it's in the works until it's well along in the development process. Which leads us back to the main point: they're not looking at adding hierarchical structures. So unless you know of some statement by Evernote staffers that contradict that, then it's about as concrete a statement of official guidance as you can expect, even if it's not particularly recent.

 

 jbenson2 I think your right. Give us a HOW and a WHEN. The more we use EN the more we need to know how we do it better, that is what these thread is about, and where we can expect to find our self in the future if we continue using it. The mere amount of repeated questions imply that you have right, and when we take jefito's 2 points into account, I would say that EN is on a collisioncourse with its users. EN is not just a software, it is a movement, hence it need clear governance. 

 

If knew how to do what I aim to in EN on EN terms, and I like it, I would not say a word against it. If I don't unserstand I would say it loud. How many of us has said it loud only to end up leaving EN in despair. I really do like its versatility. I like I can use it from whatever peice of gadget I wanna use, but - and this is a big but, if I miss the logic and become uncertain - it is often easier to jump back to ones old paradigms than fight to understand. 

 

Evernote people - how about make one of your nice videos for this topic: How to manage your notes in several layers! Cause thats what it's all about. Isen't it?

 

Please show me/us:

 

  1. How to manage subjects and sub-subjects
  2. How to store data with few processes
  3. How to maintain the integrity of my data
  4. How not to loose focus and drown in data and subjects
  5. How to delimit work boundaries within a notebook (hos to create sub, sub and sub topics)

The list may be a lot longer, but this is what I think is what I miss, and what I can find others missing in this forum. I have tried to keep it in the EN creative mood to make it plausible this could be an easy solution. In short: Teach us doubters how to master this tool!

Thanks!

 

Lars

www.lpmathiasen.com

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hello again. I just went trough EN help. After a little help - it pretty mutch ends there. The picture below is the last screen in initial help. 

With so little help, the videos are just good stories, or PR, and so much in the Forum and Knowledgebase. How about make some good old fasion help areas, where us that need help can find it. Just simple and in the EN spirit by example? To me it might solve my problem of ignorance to "how to do it". It also would justify jbenson2's statement: Evernote staff don't usually like to repeat themselves. And it would be possible to show a little future track inside the help area. Just my opinion!

 

Here is a Youtube I found espalining exactly what I did not know from Evernote help about tags: YOUTUBE

 

 

02.04.2014-09.45.png

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I'd definitely appreciate more documentation. How-to videos by Evernote exist, but are still scattered about and not well-known. They are also a little too general, in many cases.

I recommend you take a look at the 43 evernote-related posts on my site.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?s=evernote

I talk about how i do stuff in a minimalistic manner.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=367

I also collect links to other (often better) sites for learning more.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=446

A good place to start, if all of this still seems overwhelming, is Brett Kelly's book.

http://nerdgap.com/evernote-essentials-4/

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Additionally, there is a lot of helpful information right here on this board. That's how/why I started spending so much time here is b/c every day, I'd learn something new about EN and how to use it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

In the vein of GrumpyMonkey's post:

A really good place to start is right here in the forums. There are plenty of people who have gathered expertise in using Evernote (and keep it up-to-date, which can be a failing of external sources), including the ins-and-outs of the various clients, and have sorted out approaches for organization that work for them.

It helps to be clear about what you're trying to do with your stuff (i.e., Evernote content). What is it? How do you interact with it? What's your workflow? These are the sorts of questions that you need to be able to answer before someone can suggest an approach that works in Evernote, since Evernote's tools work in specific ways. Anyone here can tell you that tags nest, and how to add them in various ways, and how to use them in search and so forth; that's pretty basic Evernote operation. But unless someone can understand your use case, they won't be able to tell you how to proceed, in the same way that you cannot point to a pile of wood and ask an architect what the best way to build a house is (or try to build it yourself if you don't know how to use the tools).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

jbenson2 I think your right. Give us a HOW and a WHEN.

A How and When for what?

 

The more we use EN the more we need to know how we do it better, that is what these thread is about, and where we can expect to find our self in the future if we continue using it.

I can tell you that the more that you use Evernote, the less you need to know how to use it better: usage breeds better understanding of what Evernote (or any tool) does.

 

The actual thread topic is whether you can create nested notebook stacks in Evernote. That was answered right away: no. Since then, the topic has devolved into a discussion on something else. It should probably be its own topic, in my opinion.

 

The mere amount of repeated questions imply that you have right, and when we take jefito's 2 points into account, I would say that EN is on a collisioncourse with its users. EN is not just a software, it is a movement, hence it need clear governance.

Not sure what you mean about clear governance. On this particular issue, Evernote has spoken quite clearly, and about as definitively as they get, from a position of high authority in the company (CTO).

 

If knew how to do what I aim to in EN on EN terms, and I like it, I would not say a word against it. If I don't unserstand I would say it loud. How many of us has said it loud only to end up leaving EN in despair. I really do like its versatility. I like I can use it from whatever peice of gadget I wanna use, but - and this is a big but, if I miss the logic and become uncertain - it is often easier to jump back to ones old paradigms than fight to understand.

There are resource, as noted elsewhere in the topic. Use them. Ask questions. Ask for features. But don't plan around features that do not exist and seem unlikely to be implemented.

 

It also would justify jbenson2's statement: Evernote staff don't usually like to repeat themselves. And it would be possible to show a little future track inside the help area. Just my opinion!

Please watch your attributions. I said that, not jbenson. The statement's based on 5+ years of active forum participation and direct comments by Evernote staff.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I love the idea that Evernote is a "movement".

 

It's not, it's a commercial company selling a commercial service and as such are able to make any kind of decision that they believe to be the best.

 

That isn't to say that as a user you have to agree with one or every decision and you can certainly voice a contrary argument on these user forums but to assume that your opinion alone (or the relatively small sample set of forum users) validates an argument and makes it The Truth rather underestimates how grown up companies behave.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I, too, am looking for the ability to nest stacks. One of the searches turned up a feature request from 2008 asking the same thing. I can't believe it is that difficult to accomplish.

 

Note to Evernote: You have a good product. When users ask for something that is relatively easy, deal with it quickly. It's visible to the users, makes them happy and eliminates years of negative forum posts. Marketing 101.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I, too, am looking for the ability to nest stacks. One of the searches turned up a feature request from 2008 asking the same thing. I can't believe it is that difficult to accomplish.

 

Note to Evernote: You have a good product. When users ask for something that is relatively easy, deal with it quickly. It's visible to the users, makes them happy and eliminates years of negative forum posts. Marketing 101.

 

I'd suggest Evernote would have done something if 1) it were as easy as you think and 2) if they were prepared to change their philosophy.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...