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GrumpyMonkey last won the day on May 15

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  1. So it does exist. Thanks for discovering that and letting us know!
  2. I agree that the limit imposed on how many notes you can select at any one time is a barrier. We’ve got another thread where I weigh in on that issue. In fact, the senseless restriction is one of the reasons I am still using the Legacy app. While I don’t have a strong affinity for the toc feature (it just streamlines an already easy workflow), in principle I am unhappy that a feature that was requested, was developed and promoted by Evernote, was used (at least by me), and was never (?) complained about was stripped out for no apparent reason. I think whatever decision making process led to the abandonment of this feature, but the imposition of a note selection limit, needs to be overhauled. But, in the end, as Pink Elephant has suggested, it is what it is. With any app, I recommend tailoring your workflow for what it is, not what we want it nto be. Legacy, as the name implies, is abandonware. The new Evernote is the shape of things to come (a BSG reference here for fans of the show). The situation may improve, but we cannot count on it, so its best to assume the feature is gone and adapt. One thing that has helped me over the years is to having a consistent naming scheme. Random organizational codes have also helped. Combine these two and a saved search will basically create the same effect as a toc (in its crudest form). An added benefit of this is that the organizational scheme is future proof and quite handy if you ever export out of Evernote. I’ve written about it ad nauseum on the forums if you want to read more.
  3. Hi. Before the table of contents option, we selected a bunch of notes, copied the note links, and pasted those into a note. In my opinion. that was never terribly difficult, so the table of contents option was nice, but not necessary. Give it a try, and I think you’ll find it is pretty easy to do. I often link up clusters of notes this way by appending the list of note links to the end of each note, creating a kind of mini wiki of related content within your database.
  4. Hi. I don't have a solution for this problem beyond deleting and re-installing the app. I've had to do it several times since changing to an Android phone a couple months ago. Each time has been a different problem, so the bugs keep me on my toes, but last time it was a sudden, inexplicable inability to open the app without crashing it. Eventually, after a week or two of that, I just deleted and re-installed. Is it fixed? Well... downloading the notebooks for offline use has taken a really long time. I don't remember how many days it has been, but I still have a long, long way to go before everything is sorted. I assume this offline sync thing is causing my other headaches: for some reason the note counts don't match with my computer, notes are missing, and recent notes are not appearing. Interestingly, when I make a new note on Android, it appears immediately on my desktop, but not vice-versa. And, on Android it still has the green un-synced mark in an apparent effort to trick me into thinking it isn't syncing. Go figure. Anyhow, it is opening, so even if the sync is only working one direction, it is an improvement!
  5. I don’t know how many notes would be many, but I currently have several thousand in Evernote (5,000+) and several tens of thousands if you count the stuff I have exported into other apps after partially migrating my workflow out of Evernote (when 10 was released). From its origins, Evernote has emohasized tags over notebooks, so I guess lots of folks who bought into this strategy have few, if any, notebooks. Again, my issue with 10 is not that one workflow is better than another, but rather that 10 breaks workflows (see examples above—some of which Evernote have been promoted by Evernote) for no reason that I can see (do any other apps limit the number of notes you can select at any one time?) and without any obvious benefits. <backups> I think “give me a full backup” would be a wonderful idea. And, it seems quite elegant to me. Having notes on someone else’s computers without a backup, to continue your sartorial analogy, is like keeping all of your clothes at a neighbor’s house. Convenient, I suppose, unless they accidentally wash colors and whites (data corruption has happened), leave the door to their house unlocked and open (hacking has happened), or lose your clothes (data loss has happened). If you have a backup, you just pull your clothes out of storage and get on with things. If anything, making backups ought to have been made easier and more robust, because users could be confident of not getting trapped in a data silo. <organize according to the lowest common denominator> In the end, Legacy makes it pretty easy to backup your data, especially if you do not rely on Evernote-specific tools to organize your notes. In my case, I use certain naming conventions and other primitive methods rather than notebooks and tags. I’ve written at length about this on the forums (using only the organizational tools available on every client and an organizational method that would survive export into another app)—your mileage may vary with this system, but it is well-suited to the way Evernote was structured up until version 10 (tried and tested over 12 years of use). However, Legacy is not a long-term solution (it has been abandoned), and I agree with the original poster that restricting the number of notes selected in this way is an undesirable “feature” of the new Evernote, especially for users with large amounts of data and many notes to manipulate. <refine rather than abandon> As an example of what is possible when restrictions are removed, one app I use can perform actions such as sorting content into specified locations following rules that I define, and depending on what I am doing, I might have hundreds or thousands of items moved about in a day. Today, for example, I scanned or received dozens of documents related to a meeting at work. I just dragged them into a folder and the app did all the work automatically, instantly, and without any effort on my part beyond the time it took to scan in the documents / drag them out of emaills into the folder. When ypu go paperless (nearly 100 percent in my case) and have a steady stream of “input” like this, without tools to manipulate data at scale, you risk becoming overwhelmed by it all. Rather than arbitrarily restricting our ability to select notes, why not leave the feature alone (as it has been for more than 12 years) and add more functionality / power like this? I doubt any users would complain about having their notes automatically tagged and sorted at scale
  6. It makes sense to me. If you rely on tags rather than notebooks, or simply on the notes themselves (with a naming system), then they are organized when exporting 10 or 10,000. - sometimes you want to export the notes related to a project - you want to export notes that match certain search criteria - you want to select a bunch of notes and tag them - you want to select a bunch of notes and move them into a notebook - you want to make a "table of contents" note Now, all of this is impossible. The reduction in functionality breaks my workflow, and while I understand that the loss of functionality may have no impact at all on other folks, I think the default decision with the app should be to avoid breaking things. Wouldn't it be a lot more fun for everyone if features were refined to perfection instead of suddenly stripped out, added in half-baked / radically altered, or broken? In particular, I think this'd be nice for some of the "core" features. Refined to perfection--what do I mean? Well, for example, iOS still doesn't enable us to select all and move stuff around. Instead of removing the feature from v. 10, and being criticized for it on the forums, they could have added it to iOS and been praised for it. Both of the decisions involve "change," so I don't think users are necessarily averse to changes. I think the issue we have is with decisions that break stuff--even if a feature doesn't make sense to developers today, I can say from experience that users have requested improvements to the selecting / manipulating of notes and worked with developers to implement these improvements little by little over the years. It is a little disappointing to see all of the hard work and collaboration go to waste like this.
  7. Hi. Did you mean to post this as a Mac OSX question, because iOS has never been able to select a bunch of notes (without selecting them one by one) or export them (without doing it one at a time). On OSX, my advice is to use the Legacy version of the app, which retains this important feature along with a bunch of others. For my workflow, at least, the new version of the app is a significant downgrade.
  8. I know your screen all too well! I figure, though, that there isn't much point in making a stink about it. I've had some of the same problems ever since the new versions were rolled out (sticking with legacy on OSX), and if they haven't been able to fix the bugs by now, the QC problem is so hopelessly gummed up that being a squeaky wheel isn't going to help us get any grease. I just kind of assume I won't be able to view things at times, the searches are not going to turn up the correct results, and the app will be slow. That seems to be baked into the new version. The problem, though is a bug. By definition, that is an unintended result of the design, though perhaps a known problem that has not been prioritized. This thread is about design, and what bothers me is that they have purposefully designed inefficiency into the app, ignoring lessons learned over the last decade. I've obviously got pretty strong opinions about anything that increases my workload. If you are a casual user of Evernote, maybe a click or two doesn't matter, but someone who does use it a lot will have an extra fifty, hundred taps a day. It really adds up, and what bothers me is that we have already been through this and designed the crud out of it, so I cannot even begin to imagine why they would re-invent the wheel, and on top of that, do it in a less efficient way. My anecdote earlier in the thread addresses what happens when a bug (content failing to appear) intersects with a poor design decision (hijacking my app to introduce a new feature, not asking me to opt-in, and not giving me an option to opt-out). It's all entirely predictable, and the chances that I would encounter this perfect storm of problems are probably pretty high because, like nearly everyone using the app, it is supposed to be about productivity, and I am usually working when I am using it. For some reason, there appears to be a willingness to roll out things even when it is pretty clear that it will disrupt or obliterate workflows. They may have met a deadline and met their short-term, tactical goal, but in the process they are undoubtedly driving away or irritating paying customers, which endangers their long-term, strategic goals. I hope they get this sorted sooner than later. Rethinking the home screen is a great opportunity to turn things around, in my opinion.
  9. Glad to hear there are satisfied users out there! In my opinion, Evernote has never been perfect, at least for my workflow, and I’ve always seen room for improvement (kaizen), so I don’t have much longing for the past. I just want to do stuff, and I want to see less less friction. Alas! The developers have complicated and broken some workflows. But, they have also made some new things possible, so I think the way forward is to suggest concrete ways that the new apps can be improved. Possibly, as aukirk suggests, options exist within the new apps already to be discovered. Where they don’t if the developers have concrete examples, they might be able to address the issues in the future.
  10. Hey gaz. Good strategy. I use EN in tandem with other apps (for example, I need encryption for many things, or not to have them synced at all), so I could shift entirely over to them anytime. As for EN, I have explored all of the new stuff at length, and whatever welcome changes I found, they were insignificant in comparison to everything we have to give up in order to move “forward.” If there comes a point when Legacy is no longer viable, and we are forced into anything like the current state of the new app version, I’d be unlikely to renew my subscription. Actually, I was planning to cancel, and even let the subscription lapse, but the Legacy app tempted me to subscribe one more time. I am not paying for the new features, but in spite of them. LOL. Go figure. Gaz is right. I don’t need the drama. In the end, I have stuff to do. As long as Evernote keeps helping with that, I’ll re-up. No interest at all in being dragged through a house of new-feature/broken-feature/abandoned-feature horrors. I don’t know why the plans to scrap things and plans to add them back in are secret, but I have better stuff to do with my time than play that game.
  11. Thanks for the kind words. I always welcome developer and staff engagement here, but if they are too busy, I also appreciate them just taking our suggestions and implementing them tl;dr I was speaking about the checkmark, actually. <What’s my deal with the checkmark?> In iOS we now need to tap the checkmark to confirm an edit. That is an extra tap of literally no utility. For example, is there an X to reject the edits? No. In fact, you can close the app, open it again, and find the edited content saved, so the checkmark doesn’t even funtion as the icon suggests! It’s like the Hollywood version of Ghost in the Shell when the main character refuses to give her consent to a medical procedure and her owner/creator says they never needed her consent and goes forward with it anyhow (kind of—watch the movie for more). If it’s not serving a purpose, and increases the tapping we have to do, then it fails for all of my criteria. Instead, you could accomplish the same result as the checkmark by just moving away from the note, and then you would be someplace useful. Perhaps they thought we would want to hang out in the note admiring it after finishing our glorious edits. But, it is wisiwyg, so what is the point of staring at the same note after you tap the checkmark? <How do we fix it?> By the way, perhaps because I am several generations behind on my iOS devices, no home screen on my phone and on my ipad I am even running the old version of the app. Whatever good intentions the developers had, and I am sure they had many, as evidenced by comments and peeks behind the scenes, the new app objectively fails to improve the experience in several key ways for the users. On my iPad, I only need one tap to edit a note. Tap in the note and start editing. That’s it. When you are done, just tap in a note from the list displayed on the left and edit another one (in that case, you’d have two taps: one on the list to get the content of the other note to display and another in that note to begin editing). This thing has basically been streamlined to achieve maximum efficiency. How did it get that way? Lots and lots of work by the developers. I know that because users (including me) were brought into the process to help redesign the interface from the ground up, including video calls, so my Zoom meeting reference above was partly a joke / partly a suggestion for inprovement to the design process. Can we get to a single tap in the new app on all iOS devices? Where there’s a will, there’s a way. I have no doubt the developers could do it if they wanted. <Priorities> How do my priorities look in practice? Well, a lot like the old app. One tap to search on the iPad. One tap to access shortcuts. One tap to add a new note, even if you are in the middle of editing another one. Elegant simplicity. Is it perfect? Well, no. The old app could have used some improvements. When you tapped to make a new note on the ipad, the note filled the screen, and there was a word (完了 in Japanese for me) in the upper left corner you had to tap to confirm the content and go back. Basically, it was detritus from the earlier iterations of the app, but instead of taking this opportunity to excise it, the developers added checkmarks into every edit, and put a home screen on for good measure. New crud on top of old crud, if you ask me, and their redesign time could have been better spent building on the great work earlier developers did in refining the app. By the way, using three different versions of the app (old ios, deprecated ios?, and android), some of the problems are glaringly obvious in daily use. ios downloaded all of my notebook content for offline use in a timely manner. Android still hasn’t after about three weeks, and that was after reinstalling the app when it became unable to recognize the existence of any content at all in some notebooks. Yes, it’s a bug of some kind, and I am not suggesting they abandon development of new things for debugging, but the layering of a home screen on top of a poor experience was especially unwelcome. Timing and execution—fix the broken stuff in the premium features I pay for first and then give me the option to upgrade to the new features rather than hijacking the app (if I am using it you can assume I am working) to show me a tutorial about a feature I don’t even want. Definitely too long. Sorry about that. And, totally the opposite of my message: Keep it simple! In practice, that could mean making it faster, reducing the effort involved, making sure the core features work as intended, and gently rolling out new features (including the option not to have them at all or to turn them off).
  12. I am not sure what the subscription has to do with it. I am a premium user with the Home window. I don't want it. But, now I am forced to use it. If I crashed one of the Zoom development meetings at Evernote, I would recommend having some of these concepts / questions at the front of my mind for any design issues. 1. Does it require more clicks / taps? If so, then it probably isn't worth it. For example, we now have to tap several times just to edit a note on mobile. I have no idea why more clicks / taps were added to the process. 2. Does it increase the information density while keeping things easy to read / making them easier to read? If not, then it probably isn't worth it. Why in the world would you remove data about our notes and make it impossible to know some basic stuff like how many notes have been downloaded in an offline notebook? There is space for it. A while back in mobile (a few versions ago) we could see it. Not anymore. Days and days I have been waiting for the notebooks in my Android to download. Maybe next month will be the one when I finally get to see everything. 3. Is it faster (to do what you want to do)? If not, then it probably isn't worth it. The entire app is slower (on iOS and Android). I don't see how that makes it more productive. My notes aren't downloaded, so that slows me down. I have to tap more to edit notes. That is definitely not speeding things up. And, now we have a home screen to tap through as well. It's as if Evernote re-designed the app to be slower to use. If anyone is still around reading this, I'd suggest re-thinking how resources are prioritized and getting back to some of the core features of the app that have kept some of us around all of these years. Search, for example, is one of the most important features of the app for me (on OSX, Windows, Android, and iOS). Sometimes it has worked better than other times over the years, and we have often had long discussions about search discrepancies. I don't know about other folks, but my search results are all over the place (working with CJK, so that may have an effect). In my opinion, new search features, better search quality, and so forth will pay off more in the long run than any visual enhancements or widgety / portal screens (in general, it is never a good idea to add new screens to anything, in my opinon). OK. That's enough. I can see that Evernote has invested a lot of time and effort into developing the Home screen, and they are probably loathe to backtrack. Maybe they even think I will learn to like being slower, less productive, and irritated Until that day comes, please just give me a way to turn it off--an added benefit is that I won't be able to complain about it on the forums anymore!
  13. I don't have an opinion on the aesthetics. Maybe it is beautiful. Maybe it is not. But, the home screen definitely does nothing for my workflow. Se the default to "home screen" for everyone if you want, but please let us turn it off if we don't want to use the app that way. And, while you are at it, let us turn off any other popup tutorial. I just want to use the app. How does this look in the real world? This is my anecdote from today. Cue the world's tiniest violin to provide background music for it. I open my phone (Android / Premium subscription), press the icon, and wait several seconds for the app to load. Why is the new app slower than the old one? Then, I get ready to search, but the entire screen is covered by some kind of home screen tutorial. Meanwhile, my colleague is waiting for me to find the document I said I'd have in just a second... I navigate through the home screen, search, and finally locate the document. Great! But, it still isn't downloaded. So, it's going to take a bit longer. Actually, I've been waiting for days to get this notebook offline, sometimes leaving the phone unlocked and the app open on my desk for an hour or two. I am kind of unsure I'll ever get to see the file. Eventually, the PDF comes up, but by then my colleague has fished his own version out of his own pile of papers. What's the point of having this productivity app if I'm less productive than a pile of papers? I can pile up my papers on my desk for free My recommendation is to help us use the app to get stuff done instead of slowing it down, hijacking the app with tutorials / home screens, or degrading functionality (notebooks downloaded for offline use not working properly, for example). I don't see how this experience is "better" than what I had last year.
  14. Of course, everyone can respond as they would like, but my recommendation was not to invest such strong emotions into it. I found it helped to step back from it, consider it in relation to my use case, and uninstall it If I could have escaped from the iOS update as well, I would have, but we’re stuck with that. But, this pattern of rolling out an update before it is ready has happened before. We’ve both been around long enough to be wary. In my case, once it became clear that even if Evernote’s stated aspirations for the app matched the reality, it’d still be a terrible fit for me, the decision about what to do was easy. In other words, hating on the update (I think I have some fairly acerbic posts out there) wasn’t productive, but re-evaluating my workflow was.
  15. EN and DEVONthink are unique, and difficult to compare to one another or other apps, so it’s probably best to think about it like this: look for something (or some combination of somethings) that solves your problems with the least amount of effort/stress/money. Compare the apps that way. The solution you choose will probably seem like it requires less effort, because it is working for you. I’d say DT has far more depth, but you can choose whether you want to dig into it or not—I think that within seconds you’ll have everything you need up and running (backups with TimeMachine, databases in the cloud just like with Evernote, smart rules to automatically file everything for you, AI to suggest locations for files, and no limits (upload, file size, database size, etc.)). It’ll even import Evernote in a format that (in my opinion) is better than Evernote’s own export. The iOS app is phenomenal. Show me another app that has zero-knowledge encryption for your entire database and can sync without wifi (if you want). Amazing, but, as gaz said, why bother fiddling around with something else if your workflow is good enough? EN, even in its current state, probably still checks a lot of boxes for a lot of people. I know I really appreciate several of its features. I posted a while back in this thread about letting my premium subscription lapse. I did that for a couple weeks, and then bought another month of premium with EN to iron out some wrinkles in my workflow (legacy). I’ll be a freemium user soon, and that’ll last until the equation changes for my situation. EN used to be well-suited to my workflow (or a decade plus of use has made me well-suited to it), but not so much anymore, and their plans / development priorities make it even less likely to fit my needs in the future. Too bad for me, but they surely have their own reasons. Loyalty is a nice quality to have, but this isn’t a virtual feudal state in which our Silicon Valley overlords require us to bend the knee and pledge fealty to their apps (in this analogy the legacy app might be the Hand (Ned in GoT) and the new app might be... Oh no). I recommend saving the “hate” for something else besides a lackluster update. Instead, I’d say we ought to thank the EN developers for their tremendous effort, point out what does or doesn’t work for you, and figure out what app(s) best suit your needs.
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