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Evernote Legacy


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14 hours ago, Nux said:

Thank You so much for the Links!

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Hello everybody!
We are actively working to update more and more customers from Legacy to the latest version of Evernote. Many don't even know they are using an unsupported version, so we are making that more evident through in-app communication and by testing a new update popup on Windows.

As part of that plan, we also removed the H&L article with links to the Legacy versions. The links remain available through Support in case people need them to fix some issues.

The Legacy versions remain available, and the download links continue to work, but we decided to make the download links less accessible at this time.

Hope this clarifies!

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Vast majority of legacy users don't know they are using legacy. More than two thirds of them never even installed v10. I saw this personally in many conversations: they think they are using "Evernote". But legacy is breaking more and more with each OS update.

Plus it makes backend teams worry about backwards compatibility. We need to speed up development and legacy is one thing preventing us from doing so.

@HeBoIz What's the key reason you use legacy vs v10?
I daily run v10 and occasionally try using legacy, but I can't stand it, it's too buggy.

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One remaining pain point for me is moving a large number of notes from one notebook to another.  It was pretty much instantaneous on Legacy.  On V10 I start it and then go out for dinner.  Fortunately, I don't need to do that often.  Maybe the new sync will improve/fix that.  It hasn't been rolled out to me yet.

17 minutes ago, Federico Simionato said:

Plus it makes backend teams worry about backwards compatibility. We need to speed up development and legacy is one thing preventing us from doing so.

Maybe it is time to just rip off the bandaid and be done with it?  Put an end date out there ... 3 months ... 6 months ... 1 year, or whatever and just get it over.

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6 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Maybe it is time to just rip off the bandaid and be done with it?

I don't know enough about the reasons behind using legacy (except habit) to rip it off right now. Hopefully I'll be more confident of the decision in a few months as I learn more.
But in any case we will still need to understand how many users are on legacy because they don't know about the alternative and how many are there because they need/want it. That's why we are ramping up communication and creating a path of least resistance that brings people to the newest version.

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36 minutes ago, Federico Simionato said:

But in any case we will still need to understand how many users are on legacy because they don't know about the alternative and how many are there because they need/want it. That's why we are ramping up communication and creating a path of least resistance that brings people to the newest version.

Increasing communication with users is always a great and welcome idea.  To be honest though, I have to believe that anyone that uses the app even a little must know there is a new version out there.  There have been plenty of forum posts complaining about upgrade nags.  Also plenty of posts stating they have upgraded and then reverted back to Legacy or left EN entirely and have given their reasons why.  There is a lot of information to be found here already in the forums as well.

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25 minutes ago, ENnut said:

FWIW I use the Legacy Mac client because custom software developed for my business breaks on any Mac OS after High Sierra 10.13.6.

In this case you have 3 problems: Relying on a not supported OS, relying on a deprecated software, and running a business based on it.

Personally I would solve all 3: Update MacOS to the latest, install a VM, install your business software into it, install v10 on the Mac and skip using legacy. But maybe that’s too simple.

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1 hour ago, s2sailor said:

Increasing communication with users is always a great and welcome idea.  To be honest though, I have to believe that anyone that uses the app even a little must know there is a new version out there.  There have been plenty of forum posts complaining about upgrade nags.  Also plenty of posts stating they have upgraded and then reverted back to Legacy or left EN entirely and have given their reasons why.  There is a lot of information to be found here already in the forums as well.

I've seen quite a few people state on Reddit -- and actually, even here in the forums -- "I'm on the latest version." They think they are on the latest version because they go to the in-app "check for updates" menu and it would say "No new updates". You ask them what version number they are using and often they don't know how to provide that information. They have/had no clue they were on a legacy version and you have to manually download and install Version 10 the first time.

Usually people on these forums are more dialed in and there is a lot of good info here, but I'm betting the high majority of Evernote users don't even know there is a forum. I know it's just anecdotal, but I had an Evernote account for 8+ years before I finally started coming to the forums.

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19 minutes ago, Boot17 said:

I've seen quite a few people state on Reddit -- and actually, even here in the forums -- "I'm on the latest version."

Now that I think about it more, I believe the nag messages I was thinking of were for plan upgrades, not a software version upgrade.  Ok, makes more sense now.

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If they know they run an deprecated software, or if they doesn't: Does this change anything ?

Yes for the communication, no for the outcome. The horse is dead already, although some fellow users insist to continue to ride it.

You can now be social, talk with people about how horses die, show that it is not moaning even when pinched, or wait until it starts to smell.

Or you draw a gun, and shoot it to make everybody aware that, yes, it is dead for sure.

In this case better tell people with a red alert that this software will be closed down for good in (say) 6 months, and offer some help (YT, help documents, support) in making the shift.

I think there is an external reason as well to close it down: We have a more and more hostile web environment, with malware of all kinds, driving an evil industry of stealing data and ransom attacks. This legacy client, deprecated as it is, should be removed from the computers before a gang of IT-thugs is using it as a stepping stone to enter a system. Several millions of legacy client installations, most of them on vulnerable Windows PCs, running on outdated 32bit-code are a large enough target. Nobody can be sure that deprecated software is free of loopholes, and there is no way to fix them any more. So better close it down in a controlled manner.

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On 4/24/2023 at 8:24 PM, Nux said:

You're a godsend, thank you so much!

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6 hours ago, Federico Simionato said:

I don't know enough about the reasons behind using legacy (except habit) to rip it off right now. Hopefully I'll be more confident of the decision in a few months as I learn more.
But in any case we will still need to understand how many users are on legacy because they don't know about the alternative and how many are there because they need/want it. That's why we are ramping up communication and creating a path of least resistance that brings people to the newest version.

In this thread a user discusses why he needs the Legacy version because of medical issues with his vision. That's the kind of thing that I think Evernote should take into consideration in v. 10:

 

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12 hours ago, Federico Simionato said:

Plus it makes backend teams worry about backwards compatibility. We need to speed up development and legacy is one thing preventing us from doing so.

So you should focus on adding stuff from the legacy version. I'm quite sure you have many tickets with information on what is missing. Mine should be there. It's still not feasible to work remotely as you cannot sync (f9) on demand.

And suggesting that users don't know they are using the legacy version... Well that frankly is absurd. The icon is gray, the name is different. We know!

The new version is just ridiculously slow, especially on mobile. So much so that I stopped using it on mobile. The app is slow even thought my new phone is much faster. I use Telegram for quick notes now. I would definitely not start using Evernote if you would start using it with the current version. Your greatest advantage of doing quick notes that get synchronized to all devices is broken.

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@Federico Simionato  @Nux 

 

Lost features - The old users are grumbling only about the 'lost features'.As a power user, i can feel what they go through, but the fact remains that [ look up the old Evernote tech blogs between 2015 and 2019 - The back end was stuttering and the tech debt was inevitable. Evernote Version 8.0 for IOS released in O'Neill's term, the tech debt was so bad that they could not fix, that they killed an amazing Version 7 [ Phil Libin's era] and re-wrote the code of Version 8.0 from scratch. Some of the [Augmented Intelligence features of Version 7 was lost, as a result. Most users have not realised that the tech side of legacy code development for each platform is no longer feasible, and were not realising that each release was slowly killing features, it just wasnt obvious, at that point]. 

Many legacy users who tried the first version of V10, left it due to many missing features from the legacy, they were used to. 

Many legacy features came back in Ver 10.x - Some of those features include [IMPORT NOTE FOLDER], [QUICK SWITCHER Cntrl+Q] ,[TOGGLE VIEWS], [TRADITIONAL KEYBOARD SHORTCUTS], [ QUICK WIDGETS ON MOBILE]  etc. The Evernote team made it clear that a lot of these features would come back, and they have been added back, now , i'd say functionally, the new V10 is now about 80-85% on par with Legacy functionality. I feel that the old features which were later been added to Version 10, is not known to many old power users, who got annoyed and just probably left. 

Performance issues - Secondly, over the last few months, there was major performance issues, and this turned off many users. The peformance is much better particualrly after the bending spoons take over. yes, there are issues around, but some major changes are coming, and the changes do get fixed up rather quickly, in my opinion. and the performance of Version 10, is way way better, off late. 

Many users still think of Version 10.x as the 2020 version. The 2023 Version has not been given a trial, by many who left. But there is a strong possibility that those who come back and give it a try, without any prejudices, may like it. 

New (and some amazing) Features - Since they have not tried Version 10, many are not aware of the new features. I feel that the Evernote team, has not publicised this enough on their blog, and inform users, why the Version 10 is more powerful than the legacy - 

see this note for reference - https://www.evernote.com/shard/s200/sh/57a18d65-a50f-7062-efd6-a866512375ba/iM4zwFTaiE3O1BRgUTz3JpMzu56WBRjsdUYS1RAKDtZncFl872GuKrUVwQ 

 

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22 minutes ago, HeBoIz said:

I have a hard time imagining that those who still use the legacy version today don't really know that there is an entirely new Evernote version with lots of new functionality with version 10, which was introduced 2 1/2 years ago.

I speak to a lot of folk who think they are on the latest Evernote and they are really on legacy. When I show them V10 they are surprised, happy, glad to see it being updated even though it happened years ago.

We are not typical users, we tend to live inside the Evernote bubble and see things differently.

EG. We probably all use tags and imagine everyone else uses tags but Ian Small said around the time of the V10 launch that around 5% of users used tags. This blew my mind as I thought everyone did 😂

If I think about myself and Microsoft Word. I have absolutely no idea what version I'm using, it could be years old. I think it gets updated when I reboot, could be wrong. I don't visit the Word forums and I'm not in the slightest bit interested in how it works. Its just there and I open it. There's a huge number of folks who use EN just like this.

Personally, I'm happy V10 came out. I left EN around 2016 because the app hardly ever got updated and it felt like I was using an old fashioned app like Word 97 or something. My workflows and the way I worked with clients changes all the time and my software needs to change as well. My workflows now are unrecognisable from 10 years ago and so is the software I use. So, for me progress is good.

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27 minutes ago, HeBoIz said:

I have a hard time imagining that those who still use the legacy version today don't really know that there is an entirely new Evernote version with lots of new functionality with version 10, which was introduced 2 1/2 years ago.

I think most Evernote users don't follow these forums or subreddit or other sources for Evernote-specific news. Most users probably don't even know that Evernote was acquired by Bending Spoons. Probably no way to know for sure though.

I think the "More than two thirds of them never even installed v10" is pretty telling that people don't know it's out there unless you think that well over half of that two-thirds number has read comments in the forums and not bothered to try because of legacy-specific features they rely on that they know aren't there yet -- I highly doubt.

31 minutes ago, HeBoIz said:

It is not just a simple update to a newer Legacy version, but to the fundamentally new and different V10 version of Evernote. It may be difficult to go back after that. This decision has to be considered carefully. It should be clearly stated that (and why) an update to a fundamentally different version is recommended.

Yeah - This then is the quandary I think. I don't envy the job that Bending Spoons has ahead of them in this regard. I imagine that many legacy users have local-only notebooks and so if they upgrade to the new version, those notes vanish and they don't know why nor how to explain it. They might not even know that they even had local-only notebooks. Then they might have two different Evernotes on their computer and they don't understand where or how their data is being stored and why they are different. It's all very complicated to an average user and it's very hard to educate a person that doesn't care to be educated about the product, they just want to keep using it like it is in perpetuum -- which is understandable.

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5 hours ago, Nux said:

And suggesting that users don't know they are using the legacy version... Well that frankly is absurd. The icon is gray, the name is different. We know!

Doesn't seem absurd to me. Yes - forum members most likely know, but I would guess there are tens of millions (?) of active Evernote users. How many of them have an Evernote forum account? Maybe 1% -- if that? I have no idea, but it would be interesting to see the statistics on that.

 

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4 minutes ago, Boot17 said:

I imagine that many legacy users have local-only notebooks and so if they upgrade to the new version, those notes vanish and they don't know why nor how to explain it. They might not even know that they even had local-only notebooks. Then they might have two different Evernotes on their computer and they don't understand where or how their data is being stored and why they are different. It's all very complicated to an average user and it's very hard to educate a person that doesn't care to be educated about the product, they just want to keep using it like it is in perpetuum -- which is understandable.

Slightly off topic, but I suspect this is why local notebooks were never included in the v10 roadmap and why we won’t see them come back.  It must have been a support nightmare.  Much simpler to manage if all data is server side.  I would have liked to have seen encrypted notebooks added, but the focus appears to be ai, so I’m not holding out any hope for that.

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17 hours ago, Federico Simionato said:

@HeBoIz What's the key reason you use legacy vs v10?
I daily run v10 and occasionally try using legacy, but I can't stand it, it's too buggy.

@Federico Simionato I've written down my key reasons in Evernote (it's not a big task to find and follow the link 😉)
I daily run both versions - V10 in an Teams environment and Legacy for private (much more) purposes - but I cannot run V10 for both because I cannot have two accounts open in parallel 😡

@Sugeeth Krish THX for your shortlist of new V10 features. I'll compare it to mine and maybe add some hints how to overcome lost functionality with new tricks. But is it really a "brand new feature" to "Bulk action @ 100 notes"? 🤔 

I often use temp. tags to narrow down searches amoung masses of notes. Not even the "100" is a limit of EN10 - much more dangerous is the fact that assigning tags to notes makes the notes "changed" - horrible (or more polite: un-usable...) 🤧

All-in-all I agree with many arguments of @PinkElephant regarding "riding a dead horse" and need to run supported software for security reasons. But not with EN10 today - maybe EN11 🙏. I will not leave EN - I just want to really work with it...

 

 

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Some simple math - Legacy has different codes from different "operating systems" [ including seprate parts]. Evernote needs to support all these operating systems. But each OS evolves in its own direction. Sometimes, the API's written by one version of android or apple, may not be compatible, two or three versions later, which may need a major re-write. Suddenly, some OS may stop a particualar function, which may break in one OS, and all of this. 

Not only does EN have to keep its different code bases running all along the OS's [ and keep them running in parallel, the sync engine running across all of them], with its versions, it may need to keep supporting 4 or 5 versions of Android / 4 or 5 versions of Apple/ 4 or 5 versions for Windows ( Windows 8 was a totally new code writeup, in parallel to the regular Windows, i recall), and also at the same time, keep sorting out its never ending stream of inevitable - tech debt. 

Unlike say a service like Dropbox or Drive, which primarily deals as virtual hard drives, EN is different. Its systems are a lot more complex, with miniscule feature additions, across each platform, one of those featues may be developed as an API in form in Android, which may totally be unusable in Apple. So, this means not only redundancy of code, but also, a bigger pain, to make them compatible, all across, the board. 

Why not Notion? Why not Obsidian? one may ask - These newer gen PKM tools, emerged at a time, when the idea of the cloud was well established, and most of the OS wars were over. Notion didnt need to develop for Blackberry, or Palm Pre or Windows. But Evernote, which came earlier, needed to. Now, these services are no longer there, but to their part, they have added the tech-debt, and gone. More over the back end was formed in 2000, when Apps were still old fashioned. The idea of Mobile didnt even exist. So, Evernote had to fight its way by upping itself, to newer technolgies, without turning off the service. All of this led to the back end becoming rickety, to the point , where entire clients were re-written instead of just adding funtionality to existing clients [ Version 8 IOS was a total re-write, simply because the Engineers couldnt figrure what to do with years of tech-debt]. 

So, does this serve as an excuse? Absolutely not. It is inevitable and undeniable that Evernote has lost its sheen to newer gen apps like Notion or Obsdiain or other apps. 

But my argument here is simple. Evernote V 10 was inevitable. Whether a person lieks V10 or not, or prefers legacy is different. It was only a matter of time, before Legacy broke totally, and something had to be done. 

In the years between 2015 and 18-19, there were hardly any new features added, and even those were added were minor, and not even cross-platform. for the simple fact that EN had gone to a point where it was only possible to improve indiviual clients and try fixing older bugs and ironing the service of specific clients, but not the service and experience as a whole, which in the cloud is meaningless. 

[ Pleae refer to the Old Evernote tech blogs between 2015 and 2018, to know the actual state of the product] 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Boot17 said:

I imagine that many legacy users have local-only notebooks and so if they upgrade to the new version, those notes vanish and they don't know why nor how to explain it.

Moreover: To get them back, they have to re-install Legacy (after having read this thread or contacted support because EN staff declined to simply download it) because EN10 installation removes Legacy (program [*]) from the computer 👎

[*] After having re-installed Legacy, content of local notebooks reappears immediately 👍

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7 minutes ago, AlbertR said:

But is it really a "brand new feature" to "Bulk action @ 100 notes"? 🤔 

I recall 'Windows Legacy' of having a select limit of upto 50 notes. Maybe, i am wrong. 

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Just now, AlbertR said:

Moreover: To get them back, they have to re-install Legacy (after having read this thread or contacted support because EN staff declined to simply download it) because EN10 installation removes Legacy (program [*]) from the computer 👎

[*] After having re-installed Legacy, content of local notebooks reappears immediately 👍

The idea of 'Legacy' Vs 'Windows 10' stems from the idea of 'local notebooks'. 

Legacy was started in 2000+. The idea of 'cloud', 'mobile' or 'collaboration', or 'always online' just didnt exist. It was started just as a client like standalone MS Office. Thats where you get the idea of having 'local notebooks' [ which was the main feature when it started], but later 'local notebooks' became a side feature, as 'Evernote embraced the cloud. 

But in 2019-20, when 'cloud', 'mobile', 'collab', 'always online', 'powerful mobile clients', 'powerful virtual devices' exist, i dont think the idea of 'local notebooks' even makes sense, when your going to have almost all data online. And if you still need 'offline notebooks', just create one in your local machine and use MS word. Thats the best option you have. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Sugeeth Krish said:

I recall 'Windows Legacy' of having a select limit of upto 50 notes

Legacy is unlimited on this. EN10 limits it to 50 notes with its first edition. Some guys found a parameter "multiSelectionLimit" in configuration files to enlarge this limit to app. 1.000 - but not more. 

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7 minutes ago, AlbertR said:

Legacy is unlimited on this. EN10 limits it to 50 notes with its first edition. Some guys found a parameter "multiSelectionLimit" in configuration files to enlarge this limit to app. 1.000 - but not more. 

@Federico Simionato Check The perspectives for legacy - https://www.evernote.com/shard/s333/client/snv?isnewsnv=true&noteGuid=85f05ab8-3a6e-4d89-8620-2a801cc3cff9&noteKey=da2afbc47afb5261003943a8631af329&sn=https://www.evernote.com/shard/s333/sh/85f05ab8-3a6e-4d89-8620-2a801cc3cff9/da2afbc47afb5261003943a8631af329&title=EN10%2B-%2Bmissing%2Bfeatures%2B%28from%2Bbeloved%2BLegacy%29 

Interestingly, i had a bird's eye view of your view points. I would say that a lot of them, are based on perspective. I am happy you created such a detailed list, expressing your views in support of Legacy, while i have been doing some documentation on the other side, arguing that Ver10.x was the way to go :) [ and i am actually happy with the implemenattion of the new check lists :D ] 

Thanks @AlbertR

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33 minutes ago, Sugeeth Krish said:

I recall 'Windows Legacy' of having a select limit of upto 50 notes. Maybe, i am wrong. 

No - no limit at all im my legacy version (still green icon and original pre-v10 Evermote, so no reinstalled "legacy"...)

assigning temporary tags to far more than 50 notes, filtering, moving to a temporary notebook, exporting notebook, deleting temporary tags, moving notes back to original notebook ist done in seconds - at least in legacy...

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3 minutes ago, HeBoIz said:

No - no limit at all im my legacy version (still green icon and original pre-v10 Evermote, so no reinstalled "legacy"...)

assigning temporary tags to far more than 50 notes, filtering, moving to a temporary notebook, exporting notebook, deleting temporary tags, moving notes back to original notebook ist done in seconds - at least in legacy...

I think its a rather 'valid use case' to bring back, in Version 10.x 

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1 hour ago, Sugeeth Krish said:

I recall 'Windows Legacy' of having a select limit of upto 50 notes. Maybe, i am wrong. 

There is no select limit in Legacy, that is an important one if you need to reorganize your tag and folder structure.

And  before killing legacy, V10  html backup should be fixed with working attachments links and  relative note links into the html export folder . After all, what's the point of HTml  without links ?  This  html bug  is still open for 2 years now: Ticket# 3394987 - Re: Ticket# 3340943 - ticket 3309909

 

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I have both v10 and Legacy installed. I don't need much to complete the move and would do so if forced, but why would I? I don't find the new features as valuable as my favorite example in Legacy, "Hide Unassigned Tags," which I use daily. 

I understand I'm on borrowed time; I understand why v10 was inevitable; I understand the nudges; I get it.

And, I fire up v10 every so often and check whether they've added any new and absolutely extraordinary features or better "Hide Unassigned Tags," and such.

 

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3 hours ago, AlbertR said:

Legacy is unlimited on this. EN10 limits it to 50 notes with its first edition. Some guys found a parameter "multiSelectionLimit" in configuration files to enlarge this limit to app. 1.000 - but not more. 

EN v10 is now 100 notes by default, since some updates.

The parameter in the json file does not exist any more - but if added in a text editor, the workaround still works, up to maybe a little below notes. This is my description for the change, minted for a Mac with the direct install:

Note selection: How to raise the limit
/users/xxx/Library/Application Support/Evernote/config.json
 
The limit can be raised to 500 or more. It will run longer, but requires fewer actions. With 1.000 or close to it it stopped working, so there may be another limit.
  1. Quit Evernote 10 
  2. Open Finder
  3. From the menu bar select Go > Go To Folder...
  4. Paste ~/Library/Application Support/ and press Go.
  5. Locate the folder titled Evernote and open it
  6. Save a copy of the config.json file with an addition like .OLD as a safety copy.
  7. Open the config.json file in a text editor
  8. The "qa" section must be changed to this. If there is no QA section, add this code before the end of the config.json file, inside of the last bracket:
"qa": {
"multiSelectionLimit": 500
}
  1. Set the number of notes you wish to allow.  There is a limit of about 1,000 maximum so there's no benefit in going for a larger number.  I have it set at 500.
  2. Save the amended file and restart Evernote 10.
To speed things up you can go offline before doing operations on a lot of notes. Remember after going back online it needs time to sync all changes with the server. Don’t use EN while it is still syncing.
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2 hours ago, Giordie_85 said:

Legacy was WAY FASTER and responsive. It always takes several seconds to load a note, while legacy was almost instantaneous.

In my personal experience, I did not observe any significant difference in speed between V10 and Legacy. I had both versions installed when I upgraded to V10, but after two weeks, I found that Legacy was no longer useful to me, so I decided to delete it.

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In the daily use v10 is as fast as legacy. If it is not (especially when combined with a slow startup time),it is a pretty sure sign for a local database corruption. In this case check not to keep a copy of the data on this computer, then log out of your account. Confirm all data should be dumped.

Restart the computer, open EN, Log In. After been greeted, let the client download all content. It will take quite a while, depending on factors like internet speed and the computing power of your laptop.

There are a few multiple note actions where v10 indeed is much slower than legacy, like moving a bunch of notes into another notebook. In this case it helps to speed things up when you go offline. I am not sure with the new syncing - but with the setup before, offline actions were often significantly faster than online. After you did what you wanted to do, go back online, and better walk away while it syncs the changes.

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The uninstall of the older version is a normal part when you upgrade software to a newer release. In the case of EN you can reinstall legacy after it.

That’s what happened since v10 was released. It is still possible, you just need to contact support to get the installer.

The rest time will tell. One thing is for sure: v10 has gained a lot of new capabilities since it started on its own. None was probably enough for a convinced legacy user to switch (whyever, be it for specific details or out of unwillingness to make the change). 

The new sync changes this in two ways: First it is a quantum leap, not a gradual improvement. Second because it is not compatible with the legacy database any longer. Every legacy user requires to run a second data structure. And every legacy user who is as well using a v10 client (for example mobile) forces a permanent updating between the new and the old database.

This means doubling the data volume on the servers,  and permanently additional background processes. I don’t think this is sustainable, for technical and economical reasons.

Who decided to join EN at any point in the past decided to run a cloud based service. There is no freedom to stick for years and years with an outdated version, and expect all users to sustain the personal inertia. 

This is my personal opinion as a fellow user.

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Then you don’t care, and you shouldn’t expect the other users to care for your hobby, running old software. Especially not if it requires funds that are better invested into the future.

Export works on the new version as well, this is a nonsensical argument, not supported by facts.

Good luck for you - you won’t make it far, riding the dead horse.

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You can export „all notes“ in legacy. Do it, and import again. 

What you get is all notes in one (1) single notebook, with no structure at all. Sure, you can before you export tag each note with its notebook (as a tag), and then use the tags later to group everything into fresh notebooks.

In v10 you export each notebook (no matter how large) and when you import, you get a notebook created from the file, with the file name as notebook name.

You can export by notebooks in legacy as well - this is what EN suggested in their help documentation. When you do so, the 2 versions produce the same results.

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Edit: Somebody removed all his posts here. They were in between mine. No offenses, just an open discussion.

Not the way a forum works, but everybody can of course do with his posts what he wants.

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@Federico Simionato

I have installed and using both versions (Legacy and v10) simultaneously with no problems so far.
The reason I'm still using Evernote Legacy is that version 10 doesn't support Apple Script, which is important for my workflow.
Unfortunately for me, it looks like v10 will never support it.

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Yuck!!!!

I do not like the upgrade that just took place.  Simplicity is the name of the game and you missed out on keep it simple.

Back to legacy and like it just fine.  Upgrade?  Well I won't do that again!!!!

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I find that images I added via Legacy are not loading on v10 (I waited 10 mins for a simple screenshot to appear but still nothing). Is this normal? It makes me very insecure to fully switch over to using v10.  I wonder if anyone else experiences this.

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How long since you installed v10 ?

The client needs to download the content from the server. Keep it running (can be in the background) for a while. You can check in the task manager if there is ongoing network traffic of the EN app.

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On 5/5/2023 at 9:50 AM, PinkElephant said:

This means doubling the data volume on the servers,  and permanently additional background processes.

Are you sure? Is it an insider information or was there an overseen statement from EN?
If it is really necessary to double the data volume on server site, I cannot see the real need for EN to do this. New sync might be more reliable (really? - never had a problem with the old - but like it because I know what's going on 😉) - but doubling data volume on their site and syncing both pools for all that continue using Legacy is very expensive for sure... 🤔

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@Federico Simionato

On 5/3/2023 at 1:21 PM, Federico Simionato said:

Hello everybody!
We are actively working to update more and more customers from Legacy to the latest version of Evernote. Many don't even know they are using an unsupported version, so we are making that more evident through in-app communication and by testing a new update popup on Windows.

As part of that plan, we also removed the H&L article with links to the Legacy versions. The links remain available through Support in case people need them to fix some issues.

The Legacy versions remain available, and the download links continue to work, but we decided to make the download links less accessible at this time.

Hope this clarifies!

 

I will not use the new Windows App, features that I still use constantly were removed in v. 10.

Back during the beta (2020!), I (and many others!) complained about missing features. Our requests for the features we used in what became Legacy were ignored!

This is my post "Evernote Beta 2 Issues - First Look" from September 5, 2020:

1. Outlook Integration was not installed
2 We used to be able to control the interface. I added controls I used all the time in the Toolbar at the top: I have New Note | Activity | All Notes (I used this multiple times every day) | Sync
3. We don't need New Note & Search in the shortcuts panel. In the old one, having Search at the top of the snippets list is much better. New Note can go in the toolbar like in the old Evernote.
4. More wasted space with Account Name on the left
5. The old list of shortcuts (I have many) was much tighter than the new list.
6. We should be able to reindex Evernote
7. We used to be able to control the defaults in Tools > Options.  My default font changed and I don't like the new one
8. New notes get added to the last notebook used; I used to have a default notebook for new notes
9. New titles don't go in automatically
10. Click a link, it opens up the URL instead of going directly to it
11. Moving a note is a pain
12. When is sync happening
13. I turned off automatic numbered lists in the old Evernote, how do I do that in the new Evernote?
14. Evernote isn't in the dictionary (underlined in red as if misspelled)

How many of those issues have been resolved in the most recent version of v. 10?

Personally, I have been looking for a replacement for Evernote for quite some time. Unfortunately, as my total note size is well over 2GB, converting my notes into potential replacements has been a major issue. So I keep on renewing my Evernote subscription!

Until I find a replacement for Evernote, I will continue to use the Legacy Edition. Of course, if all of the issues I brought up above have been (or will be) fixed, I will stay with Evernote ... and start to use v. 10!

Meanwhile, is there anyway to stop the message "Let's update your app. A new version of Evernote is available. Update to New Windows Client (398256)..." from appearing?

Thanks very much,

John

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Girding up my loins, to use an old-fashioned phrase, I will wade in (as someone who stuck with Legacy for over a year after v. 10 first limped out):

1. Don't know if this is still the case.

2. I liked the customizable toolbar. OTOH, many functions are available with keyboard shortcuts, which are faster when you're typing.

3. Please don't try to speak for everyone. KB shortcuts available.

4-5. Aesthetics are subjective, screens are larger than they used to be; I like spaciousness, but on a laptop things could indeed be tighter.

6. Reindex? If you mean manual sync, the newly released sync structure makes that obsolete. If you mean rebuild the database: Settings > Application > uncheck "Keep a copy...", sign out, sign back in and let it rebuild.

7. Many defaults have been added or re-added in Settings. But fonts are now meant to be common across all devices, which means sacrificing special fonts that Windows or Mac users might prefer. It's a tradeoff.

8-10. All working now.

11. Hard to know what the pain was, but it's drag & drop now, or click to the right of the notebook name at top of the note.

12. Always and rapidly with the new rollout.

13. We do seem to be stuck with auto-formatting (if you mean typing 1. starts a list); Ctrl-Z is the workaround, but I too wish it were selectable in Settings.

14. I think spell check uses OS level resources now.

The list of what was missing in 2020, of course, does not get at all that has been added that never was present in v. 6 and under, which have been game changing improvements for many: Home page, tasks, more consistent interface across platforms, Google Calendar integration, more advanced searching, and much else, including the quick syncing and real-time collaborative editing that have just rolled out. Of course, not everyone wants or needs these, and if you don't, you don't. But simply bemoaning what was lost does not address the value that the new version has added for many of us.

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1 hour ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Girding up my loins, to use an old-fashioned phrase, I will wade in (as someone who stuck with Legacy for over a year after v. 10 first limped out):

1. Don't know if this is still the case.

2. I liked the customizable toolbar. OTOH, many functions are available with keyboard shortcuts, which are faster when you're typing.

3. Please don't try to speak for everyone. KB shortcuts available.

4-5. Aesthetics are subjective, screens are larger than they used to be; I like spaciousness, but on a laptop things could indeed be tighter.

6. Reindex? If you mean manual sync, the newly released sync structure makes that obsolete. If you mean rebuild the database: Settings > Application > uncheck "Keep a copy...", sign out, sign back in and let it rebuild.

7. Many defaults have been added or re-added in Settings. But fonts are now meant to be common across all devices, which means sacrificing special fonts that Windows or Mac users might prefer. It's a tradeoff.

8-10. All working now.

11. Hard to know what the pain was, but it's drag & drop now, or click to the right of the notebook name at top of the note.

12. Always and rapidly with the new rollout.

13. We do seem to be stuck with auto-formatting (if you mean typing 1. starts a list); Ctrl-Z is the workaround, but I too wish it were selectable in Settings.

14. I think spell check uses OS level resources now.

The list of what was missing in 2020, of course, does not get at all that has been added that never was present in v. 6 and under, which have been game changing improvements for many: Home page, tasks, more consistent interface across platforms, Google Calendar integration, more advanced searching, and much else, including the quick syncing and real-time collaborative editing that have just rolled out. Of course, not everyone wants or needs these, and if you don't, you don't. But simply bemoaning what was lost does not address the value that the new version has added for many of us.

Thanks Dave. Most of what I was complaining about with the beta back in September, 2020 appears to have been fixed.

However:

1. In Legacy, I use the customizable toolbar every day!
2. I detest the 6 fonts that are available with Evernote 10. Every other app I have allows me to change the default font, why can't Evernote?
3. I cannot turn off auto-formatting of bullets and numbered lists in Settings. Why not?
4. I just looked and didn't see any way to connect up Evernote to Outlook. I use that at least 2 times every week!

I find those 4 to be the most frustrating! If they were added to Evernote 10, I would gladly continue with Evernote.

Otherwise, I'll keep on looking for a replacement. I hope that Notion will come up with a fix for importing huge Evernote DB's like mine!

John

PS: except for advanced searching, the new features you mentioned are not important to me.

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1) Toolbar, not customizable. Because everything IS in the toolbar, what would you customize ?

2) Fonts are not open source. Fonts on Windows don’t exist on Mac/iOS, and these not on Android. EN emphasis to be platform neutral. The installed fonts are the same, no matter on which client. Strategic decision …

3) Because its not there ( can happen if you develop a code base 100% from scratch)

4) Currently connect Outlook to a Google calendar, then the Google calendar to EN. A direct link is announced, without timeline.

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39 minutes ago, johnm243 said:

1. In Legacy, I use the customizable toolbar every day!
2. I detest the 6 fonts that are available with Evernote 10. Every other app I have allows me to change the default font, why can't Evernote?
3. I cannot turn off auto-formatting of bullets and numbered lists in Settings. Why not?
4. I just looked and didn't see any way to connect up Evernote to Outlook. I use that at least 2 times every week!

FWIW, I'll add a few comments as well.

1. I liked it too but now that I've switched over to V10 full time, I find I don't miss it.  Maybe I wasn't using it that much.

2. Fonts - on Legacy there were many that used multiple devices and found that some fonts weren't present on other devices so other fonts were substituted that caused formatting to be different on each device.  There were many, many forum complaints.  For V10 they went the other direction and choice a few fonts that they could consistently use on all devices.  There is no right answer for this one.  One group, or the other will be unhappy.  Maybe in time additional fonts will be added.

3. I agree this should be a setting.  Maybe it will come eventually.  Personally it doesn't bother me.

4. Are you referring to Outlook mail, or calendar.  I believe mail integration is already out.  There is a help file out there.  Outlook calendar integration is in beta and will be out eventually.

The best reason to switch from Legacy to V10, or to another program, is that it will eventually stop working.  It is already unsupported, and now that the new sync architecture has been rolled out, which Legacy does not support,  I doubt it will remain viable for much longer.

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1 hour ago, johnm243 said:

In Legacy, I use ...

For me, the most important use is integrated scripting workflows   
via Applescript on the Mac platform

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16 hours ago, s2sailor said:

FWIW, I'll add a few comments as well.

1. I liked it too but now that I've switched over to V10 full time, I find I don't miss it.  Maybe I wasn't using it that much.

2. Fonts - on Legacy there were many that used multiple devices and found that some fonts weren't present on other devices so other fonts were substituted that caused formatting to be different on each device.  There were many, many forum complaints.  For V10 they went the other direction and choice a few fonts that they could consistently use on all devices.  There is no right answer for this one.  One group, or the other will be unhappy.  Maybe in time additional fonts will be added.

3. I agree this should be a setting.  Maybe it will come eventually.  Personally it doesn't bother me.

4. Are you referring to Outlook mail, or calendar.  I believe mail integration is already out.  There is a help file out there.  Outlook calendar integration is in beta and will be out eventually.

The best reason to switch from Legacy to V10, or to another program, is that it will eventually stop working.  It is already unsupported, and now that the new sync architecture has been rolled out, which Legacy does not support,  I doubt it will remain viable for much longer.

Thanks @s2sailor. I find it interesting that there are more fonts on this forum than are available in v. 10???

I looked for Outlook Mail functionality (https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/209005997). It mentions outlook.com and Office 365. I have Outlook 2021 Desktop for Windows. So it appears as Outlook integration has been deprecated except for online versions of Outlook.

John

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2 hours ago, johnm243 said:

I find it interesting that there are more fonts on this forum than are available in v. 10???

The "forum" is primarily designed to be only a "web only" experience, or will render as a html website. 

The "Evernote Service" however is cross-platform and has to support multiple platforms, so, its not feasible to support too many fonts, cross-platform.

Having said that, as the Editor is a unique engine in itself, i believe that Evernote will, and i hope, add support for more fonts in future. 

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2 hours ago, johnm243 said:

I looked for Outlook Mail functionality (https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/209005997). It mentions outlook.com and Office 365. I have Outlook 2021 Desktop for Windows. So it appears as Outlook integration has been deprecated except for online versions of Outlook.

Microsoft Exchange is required so if you are using the stand alone client then you are SOL.  That said you can forward emails into your account instead.  I set up a short nickname for my Evernote email and then just forwarded to that.  It is not as clean or nice as the plug in, but it works fine.  I did it that way for a long time before there was a plug-in. 

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19 hours ago, Sugeeth Krish said:

The "forum" is primarily designed to be only a "web only" experience, or will render as a html website. 

The "Evernote Service" however is cross-platform and has to support multiple platforms, so, its not feasible to support too many fonts, cross-platform.

Having said that, as the Editor is a unique engine in itself, i believe that Evernote will, and i hope, add support for more fonts in future. 

@Sugeeth Krish every CRM I have used allows you to change fonts. And they are all cross-platform (HTML, Android, & iDevice). So if they can do it, Evernote can!

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9 hours ago, bmcl26 said:

I use a workaround I have Outlook Synced with Google.

@bmcl26 I believe you are synching your Outlook calendar with Google Calendar. Legacy Evernote has a button that allows users to take an email and save it to Evernote. I use it 2 to 4 times a week!

John

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55 minutes ago, johnm243 said:

@bmcl26 I believe you are synching your Outlook calendar with Google Calendar. Legacy Evernote has a button that allows users to take an email and save it to Evernote. I use it 2 to 4 times a week!

John

I binned Legacy over a year ago. There was nothing it could do that I required that I could not achieve in V10.

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2 hours ago, bmcl26 said:

I binned Legacy over a year ago. There was nothing it could do that I required that I could not achieve in V10.

If v. 10 had the features I use all the time in Legacy, I would have dropped Legacy last year also. FYI, that was the last time I took a close look at the features in v. 10 vs. the features I use all the time in Legacy!

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The Outlook plugin started to be deprecated before the arrival of v10. This was, I believe, because of changes in Microsoft Office. The old plugin that was released with Legacy was replaced with something else that only worked with Exchange, or it might have been SharePoint.

I understand that currently connecting to the Microsoft API only works well for business accounts. The Outlook Email add-in had been dropped and I don't believe that there are plans to restore it.

So if that is critical for you then your days with Evernote are numbered. Make a plan to move on when Legacy ends which it will.

I used to run a macro which sent the current Email to my Evernote Email address. Tap a shortcut and the macro would run and the Email would appear as a new note. That is the only option you have at the moment.

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love to see the devs gaslighting users on support forums saying their customers dont know what they're missing. I'm not a fan of this new version. It wastes screen space on the notebook view, if nothing else. I'm looking to export my notebooks for a new platform, which they support very well! Would be nice to have some more visual options to look more like the old windows-native presentation which was much more effective, in my opinion, of how to use screen real estate. Attaching a file showing what i consider waste. On top of that, the distance from users from actual CSAT options is pretty stark to me.

wasted_note_space.png

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I agree 100% about the wasted space  @Elliot Holt ... and that's not even one of my major concerns!

I am intrigued by your comment:

11 hours ago, Elliot Holt said:

I'm looking to export my notebooks for a new platform, which they support very well!

I'd like to know what that new platform is. I have tried several but none were able to import my 2 GB of notes. Notion support told me that improving support for Evernote imports is on their development roadmap ... but they cannot tell me when it will be fixed!

Thanks,

John

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13 hours ago, Elliot Holt said:

love to see the devs gaslighting users on support forums saying their customers dont know what they're missing.

Welcome to the forums. You may have missed it, but this forum is labeled "Evernote General Discussions," meaning discussions among users. Staff have commented lately regarding some specific issues regarding current developments, but as far as I can tell not on this thread. Evernote Staff have "Evernote Staff" badges with their avatars. So no one's gaslighting anyone. If you want to reply to a specific post, you can quote it.

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1 hour ago, johnm243 said:

I have tried several but none were able to import my 2 GB of notes

You have 2GB. I have 55 GB. Good luck to long term power users. 

For all its flaws that Evernote has and needs to be acknowledged, how perfect are the alternatives? 

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On 5/3/2023 at 10:39 PM, Federico Simionato said:

But in any case we will still need to understand how many users are on legacy because they don't know about the alternative and how many are there because they need/want it.

@Federico Simionato If you remove the ability to use the legacy version I will cancel my license and migrate to another platform. The new version is unusable in practice for me.

Here are two of the issues that are completely unacceptable to me.

  1. It frequently freezes for a long time when switching between evernote and another app. I spend as much time waiting for freezes to resolve as using evernote when I need to switch between applications frequently. It drives me up the walls. This is a well known problem, reported again and again by many different users, that you just seem to either be unable to fix, or to not care about. Come on evernote!
  2.  it still has horrible usability for internal links. Whenever I click an internal link the window I am in is hidden, the main window is displayed, and the main window is changed to show the target of that link. Seriously, who thought this up? If chrome or firefox did something this absurd people would be leaving them in droves for the competition. This is beyond bad UI design. I rely HEAVILY on internal links. If they do not open in the same window by default, as all sane software implements it, I refuse to use the application. Come on evernote! 

So again. If you force me to use the disaster that is the new application without fixing these issue, I'm gone!

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Thankfully, you have time to make a plan for your departure. My guess is that you have around a year to sort out where you can move your data to. So, thankfully, good time to make the plan.

Those who have successfully transitioned to the v10 interface will, I think, all agree that it takes a short time to switch but then it becomes OK again.

Whatever change you make will be painful and different.

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1 hour ago, agsteele said:

Those who have successfully transitioned to the v10 interface will, I think, all agree that it takes a short time to switch but then it becomes OK again.

@agsteele Did you read my comment!? If so, please tell me, how does constant long freezes during which I can get nothing done and I am forced to just sit there steaming in my own frustration become "OK again"? I cannot even do work in another application because it is when I switch back to Evernote that it freezes. If i switch away again I'm just resetting the wait time and I'm condemned to wait again from the start as soon as I switch back to evernote. This is not something for me to get used to, it is a severe bug that must be fixed but for some unfathomable reason evernote is simply ignoring. I just don't understand why anyone would suggest I just get used to something like that. Please!

These are not minor feature differences I'm talking about. I'm talking about a bug that makes the software damn near unusable and a horrifyingly bad UI design brainfart that simply should never have been implemented. For crying out loud, implying that I should just get used to it or leave is the exact opposite of helpful! Why in the world would you even post something like that?

 

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3 hours ago, Magnus Lidbom said:
  1. It frequently freezes for a long time when switching between evernote and another app.

I can't reproduce that, on my devices it's instant. Is it when switching between any other app or a specific one?

On what device do you have this problem and is it with the latest release?

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1 hour ago, Magnus Lidbom said:

@agsteele Did you read my comment!? If so, please tell me, how does constant long freezes during which I can get nothing done and I am forced to just sit there steaming in my own frustration become "OK again"? I cannot even do work in another application because it is when I switch back to Evernote that it freezes. If i switch away again I'm just resetting the wait time and I'm condemned to wait again from the start as soon as I switch back to evernote. This is not something for me to get used to, it is a severe bug that must be fixed but for some unfathomable reason evernote is simply ignoring. I just don't understand why anyone would suggest I just get used to something like that. Please!

These are not minor feature differences I'm talking about. I'm talking about a bug that makes the software damn near unusable and a horrifyingly bad UI design brainfart that simply should never have been implemented. For crying out loud, implying that I should just get used to it or leave is the exact opposite of helpful! Why in the world would you even post something like that?

 

This is not anything like my experience with EN. 

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30 minutes ago, eric99 said:

I can't reproduce that, on my devices it's instant. Is it when switching between any other app or a specific one?

On what device do you have this problem and is it with the latest release?

There are plenty of threads about the problem on the forums. Here's the first one that pops up when searching: https://discussion.evernote.com/forums/topic/134120-evernote-freezes-for-1-min-when-it-is-put-in-the-background/#comment-607987

Sorry, but I'm not about to start spending tons of time trying to diagnose a bug that has been around for years in an application that I do not want to use.

 

 

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I don't know what I was thinking posting here. It's just these daily freaking reminders to "upgrade" that were driving me nuts enough to think that there would be any point to posting on this forum. I don't know what I was thinking. Bye guys. All the best.  

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Then don’t use v10 !

Sorry, we have had it all when v10 launched, and some of us did a lot of initial work to get it improved. I am way beyond 300 support tickets by now, more than 2/3 related to v10.  The software was basic when it launched, and it has taken several loops to get it where it is today.

We don‘t need this rest of legacy users who now realize there is a new version, switch over and after 5 minutes know they don‘t like it.

Then don‘t like it - stay with legacy, switch to any other app, buy a paper notebook. Up to you.

P.S. Never had that problem mentioned in the thread. The thread has few postings, which shows it was an individual problem of some users, maybe due to an individual setup issue. It pops up again from time to time, individual cases - it is by no means proof for anything related to v10 in general.

By taking this stuff without reflection and tell it would be something general, you are not only fooling yourself, you are fooling other users who maybe don‘t know it better. Bad move.

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5 hours ago, Magnus Lidbom said:

 it still has horrible usability for internal links. Whenever I click an internal link the window I am in is hidden, the main window is displayed, and the main window is changed to show the target of that link. Seriously, who thought this up? If chrome or firefox did something this absurd people would be leaving them in droves for the competition. This is beyond bad UI design. I rely HEAVILY on internal links. If they do not open in the same window by default, as all sane software implements it, I refuse to use the application. Come on evernote! 

Hrm - I see what you are saying, and I'm not sure if I think this is actually a "feature" or not, but I guess I've just found a way to work with this behavior and expect it.

I often have a note open in it's own window and pegged to the right side of my desktop and I use that for a quick links kind of a thing. I find it way more handy than the shortcuts menu.

If I click on a link in that side note and I *don't* want it to open in the main window, then I just pop it out into its own window. (Not sure if you already know this or not, but you can Command/Control click on a link to pop the link out in it's own window instead of in the main program.)

5 hours ago, Magnus Lidbom said:

It frequently freezes for a long time when switching between evernote and another app. I spend as much time waiting for freezes to resolve as using evernote when I need to switch between applications frequently. It drives me up the walls. This is a well known problem, reported again and again by many different users, that you just seem to either be unable to fix, or to not care about. Come on evernote!

I run Evernote version 10 on two Macs and two Window PCs (and one of the Window PCs is from 2013) and switching apps is instant for me on all of them. (Also instant switching apps on my iPhone and iPad.)

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2 hours ago, Magnus Lidbom said:

@agsteele Did you read my comment!? If so, please tell me, how does constant long freezes during which I can get nothing done and I am forced to just sit there steaming in my own frustration become "OK again"? I cannot even do work in another application because it is when I switch back to Evernote that it freezes. If i switch away again I'm just resetting the wait time and I'm condemned to wait again from the start as soon as I switch back to evernote. This is not something for me to get used to, it is a severe bug that must be fixed but for some unfathomable reason evernote is simply ignoring. I just don't understand why anyone would suggest I just get used to something like that. Please!

These are not minor feature differences I'm talking about. I'm talking about a bug that makes the software damn near unusable and a horrifyingly bad UI design brainfart that simply should never have been implemented. For crying out loud, implying that I should just get used to it or leave is the exact opposite of helpful! Why in the world would you even post something like that?

 

V10 works, almost quite well for most users. The most common fix is uninstall your client, install the latest code, and re-allow your machine to sync. Its likely the problem will fix. If your a paid user and still have a specific use case problem, send your logs to customer support. They'll try and fix it for you, and make the product even better. 

If your a free user, tough luck. 

All this will work, only if you have the primary intent to accept the reality that you want to use Evernote for the long term, and give V10 a try. 

If your going to start with a prejudice (anyone who does so), and keep voting in favour of Legacy [ we all love Legacy], you will never get to over come the work around with V10. 

The old days of developing indvidual code bases - platform specific and then making them communicate with each other, is not only a night mare and is no longer financially feasible. This is the way forward, and is the reality. 

 

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@PinkElephant  I was wondering if I was overly sensitive or whether your comment was truly offensive, so I asked asked bing AI chat in more creative mode: how would you characterize the tone of this quote? 

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

Then don’t use v10 !

Sorry, we have had it all when v10 launched, and some of us did a lot of initial work to get it improved. I am way beyond 300 support tickets by now, more than 2/3 related to v10.  The software was basic when it launched, and it has taken several loops to get it where it is today.

We don‘t need this rest of legacy users who now realize there is a new version, switch over and after 5 minutes know they don‘t like it.

Then don‘t like it - stay with legacy, switch to any other app, buy a paper notebook. Up to you.

P.S. Never had that problem mentioned in the thread. The thread has few postings, which shows it was an individual problem of some users, maybe due to an individual setup issue. It pops up again from time to time, individual cases - it is by no means proof for anything related to v10 in general.

By taking this stuff without reflection and tell it would be something general, you are not only fooling yourself, you are fooling other users who maybe don‘t know it better. Bad move.


Rather than give my own subjective opinion, here's what an impartial AI had to say:

Quote

I would characterize the tone of this quote as aggressive, defensive, and dismissive. Here are some reasons why:

  • The quote uses exclamation marks, capital letters, and short sentences to convey a sense of anger and frustration. For example, “Then don’t use v10 !” and “Then don‘t like it”.
  • The quote shows a lack of empathy and respect for other users who may have different opinions or experiences with the software. For example, “We don‘t need this rest of legacy users who now realize there is a new version, switch over and after 5 minutes know they don‘t like it.” and “buy a paper notebook. Up to you.”
  • The quote also attacks the credibility and motives of other users who report problems or issues with the software. For example, “By taking this stuff without reflection and tell it would be something general, you are not only fooling yourself, you are fooling other users who maybe don‘t know it better. Bad move.”

These are some of the indicators that suggest the tone of this quote is not friendly, constructive, or polite.

 Right. That about sums it up. 

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It seems you like to hide behind other opinions - right.

It seems you don't like to participate in improving things, instead ranting and putting a negative twist on anything - right.

Don't need AI to see this. Goodbye.

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8 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

It seems you like to hide behind other opinions - right.

It seems you don't like to participate in improving things, instead ranting and putting a negative twist on anything - right.

Don't need AI to see this. Goodbye.

Bing AI answer:

"I think this is another example of a negative, defensive and dismissive tone. The author of the quote is not addressing the feedback or criticism, but instead attacking the person who gave it. The author is using rhetorical questions and assumptions to imply that the person is wrong, lazy and dishonest. The author is also using words and phrases like "hide behind", "don't like to participate", "ranting", "negative twist", "don't need AI", "goodbye" to convey their hostility and contempt. The author is not showing any willingness to listen, learn or improve."

I would agree with that.

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@akrde This is the first time I've used an AI in this way, but you know I think we are onto something :)
If I post my own reactions to someone being offensive I tend to feel terrible all through the process. I find it extremely hard to be reasonably objective and not to become offensive myself and participate in starting a flame war. On the other hand, just bouncing back what an impartial AI has to say about the tone of the comment leaves me feeling relieved. I'm almost having fun here instead of having to really work at preventing myself from descending into hurt-and-anxiety driven aggression. I figure I'll be doing this more in the future if the occasion presents itself!

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4 minutes ago, AlbertR said:

Could you all come back to the topic of this thread, please? 🙏
Discussing AI in and around EN and its users is it worth to start a new one elsewhere 😉 

Agreed. No need to discuss using AI as a strategy to deal with offensive comments here. My apologies. 
On the other hand, I do feel that letting the commenter know how their comments sound and thus how they are apt to make others feel was entirely appropriate though. I don't believe in gritting your teeth and bearing it when people are being disrespectful and hurtful.

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2 hours ago, Magnus Lidbom said:

There are plenty of threads about the problem on the forums. Here's the first one that pops up when searching: https://discussion.evernote.com/forums/topic/134120-evernote-freezes-for-1-min-when-it-is-put-in-the-background/#comment-607987

Sorry, but I'm not about to start spending tons of time trying to diagnose a bug that has been around for years in an application that I do not want to use.

 

 

One last note, there is a good chance that this problem has been solved by the new synchronization system. I experienced it myself, all the Android woes of the last 2 years are now gone 🙂  Have you seen this freeze problem with the latest release?

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Regarding freeze-situations in EN10, 

3 minutes ago, eric99 said:

Have you seen this freeze problem with the latest release?

Not here. But saw a similar effect in Legacy now 🤔: With the new sync (RTE - Real-Time-Editing), EN10 opens a so called "RTE room" on server side to distribute note changes immediately to other clients.

As long as such a RTE room is open (means: as long as this note is open to edit in EN10 - and some (unknown) time more), Legacy cannot sync changes to this note. This leads to sync stops for for this time (changes in Legacy are frozen...). In Legacy's log file you will find messages like 

  • [ERROR ] xxx EDAMSystemException: errorCode=RATE_LIMIT_REACHED message="Attempt updateNote where RTE room has already been open for note: xxx"
  • [INFO  ] xxx Client synchronization finished, status: failed
  • [ERROR ] xxx Synchronisierung aufgrund eines unerwarteten serverseitigen Problems fehlgeschlagen
You do not have to explain to me that Legacy does not and will not support RTE, is deprecated and will go to die anytime in future. But as long as [bla bla bla], some of us have to use it and should know about such effects 😉
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10 minutes ago, eric99 said:

Have you seen this freeze problem with the latest release?

No. It is an intermittent problem for me and I have not spent any significant amount of time using the latest version. What exactly triggers it is unclear but once it started happening it kept happening all the time and restarting evernote did not help.  It would be great if it has been fixed. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

However, as long as all internal links open in the main window no matter which window I clicked the link in, leaving that window open but lost in the background somewhere, I will stay with the legacy client. My notes are essentially a large and heavily interlinked website with navigation menus etc. It is an absolutely fabulous way of organizing large amounts of notes and navigating efficiently between them. But it is a huge pain to use it when I cannot follow links within the window I am in!


Before someone tells me to contact support: I spent more than a week over a ton of emails talking to a support person about this when v10 first came out and 90% of my time was spent slowly realizing that they were a total total Evernote novice and I had to explain to them step by step what internal links were and how they worked in v10 vs legacy. Eventually they frankly admitted to being a novice and knowing very little about the application. That's first line support for you.

Once that was accomplished the rest essentially went like this:
Support: "Yes internal links behave as you say they do in v10".
Me: "That is the problem! That's what I keep trying to explain. It shouldn't! Please change it to a sane behavior or at least provide a workaround or configuration setting to make it behave sanely!"
And then there was radio silence.
Talk about an exercise in frustration.

 

This is, sadly, entirely consistent with my life-long experience of support. Getting past first line so that a bug or serious usability problem is brought to the attention of the actual development team? That happens once in a blue moon. Once or twice I have told them, in desperation but absolutely truthfully, that I am a software architect that has been building complicated software for more two decades and been in charge of the architectural aspects of projects for a decade. This has not helped in the slightest. First line support have their flowcharts for how to handle requests and I figure that "forward to development team" is for all intents and purposes not something that they do. 

I'm not in the slightest eager to have another go. Go figure ;)

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@Magnus Lidbom: Yes clicking on an internal link from within a separate EN window should open the target note in this window (like in Legacy) and surely not in the main window. I will add this to my list...

But there is workaround: If you CTRL-click on the link, the target not opens in a new window (like SHIFT-click does in Legacy). Nobody knows why this behavior has been changed and|or will be re-changed in future or will be configurable 🤔

And regarding support: I also have met novices - but I've been moved to second line and even development for some (OK, rare) times in the past - so you must not give up 😉

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35 minutes ago, AlbertR said:

But there is workaround: If you CTRL-click on the link, the target not opens in a new window (like SHIFT-click does in Legacy). Nobody knows why this behavior has been changed and|or will be re-changed in future or will be configurable 🤔

Unfortunately, opening in another window is actually even worse for my workflow. Say I need to click 4 links to get from the note I'm in to get to the one I want to get to and this takes less than a second per link if the links open in the same window. With your workaround, for each click a new window would open somewhere on my screen and get focus. I would have to hunt for the position of the next link in that window, thus opening yet another window etc. The end result is that I now have to spend perhaps 30 seconds hunting down the 3 lost windows among all my open windows and close them so that I can continue working in the last window. This is a huge hassle. Then after a while I often want to go back to where I was and keep working. In the old application that is as easy as Alt+Back 4 times. Takes 1 second. In the new its a huge pain to try to get back to the first note. I might have to do a manual search,  something which also is far slower and more cumbersome in v10 than in the legacy client.

I do this type of navigation constantly since my notes are essentially a large website with a hierarchical navigation menu. This is not a minor inconvenience for me.

Edit:

35 minutes ago, AlbertR said:

Yes clicking on an internal link from within a separate EN window should open the target note in this window (like in Legacy) and surely not in the main window. I will add this to my list...

Nice, thank you :)

Edited by Magnus Lidbom
Expand quote to make it clean what I am responding to.
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On 5/4/2023 at 6:39 AM, Federico Simionato said:

I don't know enough about the reasons behind using legacy (except habit) to rip it off right now. Hopefully I'll be more confident of the decision in a few months as I learn more.
But in any case we will still need to understand how many users are on legacy because they don't know about the alternative and how many are there because they need/want it. That's why we are ramping up communication and creating a path of least resistance that brings people to the newest version.

I need Apple Script that only Legacy has

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@Magnus Lidbom, I can't suggest anything to get note links to work as they used to in Legacy. I do think that expecting support to change the way the software works to match your needs, and suggesting that its current way of working is not sane, was always going to end the way it did. Unless you could show that a large number of users needed this, what could they do?

All the same, with the well-developed system you've worked out, I can see that v. 10 would become a real mess. Reconfiguring (maybe with backlinks) would be a mess also. Exporting to a different program/service might be painful too, unfortunately. I hope Legacy will continue to work for you. If OS changes begin to make it difficult to run Legacy, running it in a virtual machine might be a workaround (not really a solution). Do you use Evernote on multiple devices with multiple OSes? If not, the VM workaround might be manageable if it comes to that.

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