Real-Time Editing is out for everybody – Feedback conversation

[gazumped 11,780]

21 minutes ago, Tcellguy said:

My install says "Evernote 10.57.10 is currently the newest version available."

You would be able to download and install 10.58 from Evernote.com if you wish...

[tyoung77 40]

Hello,

12 hours ago, Tcellguy said:

Is this a beta? My install says "Evernote 10.57.10 is currently the newest version available." and the note status toggle is still active. I hope it's not gone as I'm still experiencing disconnected notes and have to restart Evernote every time I use it. 

I'm a long time user of EN as many of you. Quite honestly EN is the most bug ridden application that I pay for and I'm very unhappy. But they have fixed some of the synch problems I was experiencing. I submitted a support ticket for slow notes opening and to their credit they responded promptly. A ticket is truly the best way to tell them how much pain you're feeling. Just my 2 cents.

[Peter Olins 66]

14 hours ago, Tcellguy said:

My install says "Evernote 10.57.10 is currently the newest version available." and the note status toggle is still active.

1.  The latest app version is available for direct download at the website. Automatic notifications for "Update Available" appear to be rolled out at staggered rate (presumably to reduce demand?).

2.  I discovered that the toggle for the Help/Troubleshooting menu (Opt key + select Help) works when viewing the All-Notes window, not a single Note window, explaining why this feature appeared to be intermittent for me  :~)

 

My Setup:

2020 M1 macbook

OSX Ventura 10.13.1

EN 10.58.3 (downloaded from En website, not App Store)

[PinkElephant 8,304]

The pushed rollout of new versions is always staged - maybe because it keeps the servers from melting, when all clients would show the message at the very same time.

Who goes to the download page on the website gets the newest version, no matter what the Update assistant in the client tells. The stores are usually a little behind, but the AppStore is pretty fast, listing 10.58.3 only 2 days after it was released on the website, if I’m not mistaken.

[MvdH 454]

FYI: I am trying out https://cdn1.evernote.com/boron/win/builds/Evernote-10.58.5-win-ddl-ga-4156-1089b118bb-setup.exe right now.

[Tcellguy 71]

Still no resolution of failure to reconnect on wake from sleep with 10.58.5 macOS version for me. I'll submit a ticket. This disconnected sign will never update to connected unless I restart the app. Oddly, uni-directional sync can still occur with new text added to a disconnected note. So that new test will add to on an outdated copy of the note, but it will show up on server version. Add to this that many notes are fully connected at the same time and it's very confusing to know what is synced and what is not. The "All changes saved" appears to have no meaning in my experience. 

I still have remember to restart the app every time I use it now. 

 

[PinkElephant 8,304]

The „All changes saved“ refers to the local database - it doesn’t imply a sync to the server.

I had a similar situation a few days ago when trying some note merge aspects. I went to a other note, came back, and the status bar returned to normal.

Another trick might be a reload (cmd - R). Can’t try, since my client (10.58.5 direct download) behaves OK.

[Tcellguy 71]

Thanks I’ve tried all the note reload operations without success. Only app relaunch seesaw to fix it. 

[eric99 1,023]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

The „All changes saved“ refers to the local database - it doesn’t imply a sync to the server.

Are you sure about that? With unplugged network, I get "offline", never "All changes saved".  So I think the intended meaning is that it is synced to the server.

[PinkElephant 8,304]

I checked on network traffic. It said „All changes saved“ in a blink, even before network traffic was picking up. This when saving attachments in the multi-MB-range, that needs a time to sync, even on a fast connection.

That‘s my indication that it shows the message when it saved locally. Just an outside view - I have no inside knowledge and can only observe what‘s going on.

[Tcellguy 71]

I may have found a solution. I usually have 10+ Evernote windows open. I found the disconnected notes will sometimes reconnect if I close the opened window. I closed all open windows individually and then restarted the application and so far notes are now reconnected after sleep. 

[tyoung77 40]

15 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

I checked on network traffic. It said „All changes saved“ in a blink, even before network traffic was picking up. This when saving attachments in the multi-MB-range, that needs a time to sync, even on a fast connection.

That‘s my indication that it shows the message when it saved locally. Just an outside view - I have no inside knowledge and can only observe what‘s going on.

@PinkElephantConsider this reason for why I believe it is saving to the server. When I open a very small note I see "saving..." then "All changes saved" sometimes it is in a blink but sometimes it takes like 10 seconds. BTW much better than about a week ago! I believe it is saving to the server because of the amount it takes to save these small notes and the time varies randomly. Just an observation. 

[Tcellguy 71]

Regarding the disconnected note on wake from sleep. I can now reproduce that opening the note in its own window, then closing, then changing to a new note then back will reconnect the note. There appears to be a problem with open note status and reconnection for some notes. 

 

I showed this in a video to support and they informed me that my internet connection must be the problem (despite showing that reconnection occurs after closing the open note) 😕 

[realistdreamer 23]

On 5/15/2023 at 1:42 PM, Scott T. said:

@realistdreamer I was looking at our connection logs today and I see large bursts of traffic coming from various API keys. This seems to indicate that on update failure, third party clients are retrying over and over again, sometimes multiple times a second. API keys have limits on the number of calls per user per key. So if the client does not implement a retry backoff strategy, it can very quickly hit the rate limit. 

Our devs were discussing the issue today and we'll be talking to product as well about what to do next. But in the meantime, it seems that evaluating your retry logic would be a good way to handle the problem for now. 

I am replying to this comment as it's the last on this issue by Evernote staff @Scott T. or @Federico Simionato.  

We were advised that after RTE, if a note was "closed" it could be edited by Legacy apps (AKA the API).  Since that time, there is another thread suggesting the API can't update notes at all.  Developers are told to go to Stackoverflow for help, but the same has been posted there with no response since June (2 months at this time).  

Back in May, staff indicated the decision was made NOT to deprecate all ability for updates via the API, but that the decision was "at least not at this time."  Has this changed?

Before we invest in retry backoff strategies or other logic, it would be good to get an update on the "talking to product as well about what to do next," you mention above.

More specifically,

1. Is the plan to continue to allow API apps to update notes (such that users can actually interact with those updates)?
2. If so, is there a consistent way for apps to have their updates added since having the note "closed" is not working (multiple user reports, stackoverflow posts and testing)?
3. If the plan is to discontinue updates via the API, can Evernote let consumers know that a) this is a thing and b) how long they can expect to live without the integrations  being able to update or otherwise interact with notes?

Why this matters

While I have all kinds of "feelings" about this as a developer, I know as an avid Evernote user, it matters.  The entire trend of the industry (except Apple) is to allow relatively easy integrations to support use cases not supported by the base software.  Evernote was a pioneer in this area (see defunct app center) and so many users have developed use cases they rely on and don't expect Evernote to solve everything.  If this part of Evernote's value proposition is changing, users ought to know.  

Users are leaving not just because Evernote is not meeting their expectations, but because they don't know what expectations to have in the first place.  They can't expect Evernote to stay the same and they don't know how to expect it will change.

I have all kinds of sympathy for the technical debt being carried on the front end and especially on the backend.  I know hard choices have to be made and everything has pros and cons.  Evernote's a private company that doesn't need to please the markets yet.  It could live with a bit more transparency, especially if you're going to break something important to add something else.  If "Legacy" apps are not important at this time, I'm sure users and developers alike want to know.

We appreciate the hosting of these forums to discuss these issues.  

[gazumped 11,780]

20 minutes ago, realistdreamer said:

If "Legacy" apps are not important at this time, I'm sure users and developers alike want to know.

You mean the 'deprecated and unsupported' move a couple of years ago wasn't enough of a clue?

[realistdreamer 23]

7 minutes ago, gazumped said:

You mean the 'deprecated and unsupported' move a couple of years ago wasn't enough of a clue?

Guess I missed that one.  Do you have a link? 

I will say the state of the app center and developer site has indeed been a clue, but there has been relatively consistent support available for the API until the most recent layoffs.  I understood the need to focus on the core app from a stability and unification standpoint.  I trusted Ian to let the API limp along until it could be addressed more fully.  However, I continue to find it hard to believe that Evernote would forgo an API entirely in an environment where Notion, OneNote and most they are competing against have one.  But, if the technical debt is that bad and the band aid and glue sticks aren't worth it, I'd just appreciate the clarity.

[bwydoogh 71]

5 hours ago, realistdreamer said:

Users are leaving not just because Evernote is not meeting their expectations, but because they don't know what expectations to have in the first place.  They can't expect Evernote to stay the same and they don't know how to expect it will change.

This.

Thank you for your message; it describes exactly how I experience things. I'm currently torn between Readwise and Evernote due to this exact same problem. And one refers to the other. To be honest... it closes the door for me regarding Evernote, especially since nowadays there are so many other note-taking / PKM apps that do focus (or continue to focus) on integrations with external parties.

[gazumped 11,780]

8 hours ago, realistdreamer said:

Do you have a link?

There was a little fuss about it starting a few years ago - https://www.engadget.com/evernote-cross-platform-note-taking-app-redesign-interview-130026972.html (October 2020)

Having said which you need to talk to Evernote about API issues - the services I use as Evernote add-ins (Backupery / Filterize / Postach.io) seem to be continuing their interface.

[realistdreamer 23]

8 hours ago, gazumped said:

There was a little fuss about it starting a few years ago - https://www.engadget.com/evernote-cross-platform-note-taking-app-redesign-interview-130026972.html (October 2020)

Read the article and still a bit confused at the comment.  In 2020, no one would have thought "Legacy apps" meant the API.  The API is access to the database that stores everything.  If there is an Evernote, there is a database.  I've never heard anyone describe an API as a Legacy app until now, nor have I seen any going concern company deprecate an API without having a different one available.  Sure, companies incorporate new data structures and need to change or rewrite their API.  Maybe they even charge for the privilege.  They don't eliminate one without having another. 

[gazumped 11,780]

AFAIK the API is alive and -mostly- well,  since bits of it drive the three apps I mentioned that are connected to my account.  RTE caused a literal hiccup because apps that were used to notes opening immediately,  suddenly found they were taking some seconds for processing; so any intricate operations had issues.  What limited feedback I got from the various third party companies was that once they worked out what the problem was,  things got adjusted.  Whether by them,  or by Evernote I don't know.  My deprecated and unsupported comment was prompted by your apparently wanting some clarity on Legacy ("If "Legacy" apps are not important at this time").

I'm not clear where you're going with this - do you have an app that won't work with v10? Do you need access for scripted activities? Like I said earlier - you're best off talking to Evernote about all the above.  We're mostly only users here.

[realistdreamer 23]

39 minutes ago, gazumped said:

I'm not clear where you're going with this - do you have an app that won't work with v10? Do you need access for scripted activities? Like I said earlier - you're best off talking to Evernote about all the above.  We're mostly only users here.

Thanks for your message.  This post was started by staff to gather feedback on experiences and impacts of RTE.  As part of that discussion, Evernote staff posted several messages including messages indicating that they would respond in the future after "talking to product" and workarounds beyond "retry and backoff strategies".  Where I'm going with this is following up on the responses we've not heard. 

When you say "talking to Evernote", what other strategies are you aware to do that?  Have you tried "talking with customer support" about such issues?"  I have.  Have you tried talking with developer support, or stackoverflow?  I have.  Have you tried submitting tickets as a customer or developer?  I have.  It's best I remain polite and not speak about those efforts.

In more than 2 apps and internal testing with two API keys, the "workaround" of making sure notes are "closed" before updating is not working reliably (if at all) which suggests the API is not working reliably.  Again, the issue is the impact of RTE on the ability update notes via the API.  Seems like reasonable feedback on a post dedicated to such, which staff has already responded to. 

 I'm not clear on how you use the services you indicated, but I'm aware that they all can be used without the need to update existing notes, so not sure whether you're facing this issue.

In any event, what I seek is the clarity that the relevant staff indicated they were seeking to provide.  I'm also discussing these concerns with fellow users, which I thought was one of the purposes of forums. 

[gazumped 11,780]

21 minutes ago, realistdreamer said:

I'm not clear on how you use the services you indicated, but I'm aware that they all can be used without the need to update existing notes, so not sure whether you're facing this issue.

? Backupery creates enex files from notebooks / Filterize adds tags, moves notes between notebooks and maintains themed 'table of contents' notes with (forinstance) "all tasks due in the next 7 days" / Postach.io converts existing notes into blog pages" - all of which is done by them -not me- as a new edit is syncing,  so no - I'm not facing any issues other than the fact RTE works alongside these services and I can edit notes on more than one device at the same time.

I do interact with Evernote staff - they're mainly friendly and as helpful as they can be,  and my last couple of tickets got cleared within a few days. No big drama.  Sorry if that's not your experience.

Other than the 'two devices, one edit' thing I doubt any of us here have any in depth experience at API level.  Since that's Evernote's ball (so to speak) you're kind of stuck with interacting with them if you want more.  I have no axes to grind - I'm just a user,  with limited experience here.

[realistdreamer 23]

43 minutes ago, gazumped said:

I do interact with Evernote staff - they're mainly friendly and as helpful as they can be,  and my last couple of tickets got cleared within a few days. No big drama.  Sorry if that's not your experience.

Glad to hear your experiences were successful.  I haven't had staff be anything but friendly in my interactions over several years.

Thanks for your efforts at assistance. 

I'll wait to see if staff seeks to provide the updates indicated and requested here since other channels have been unsuccessful.

 

[wetter11 2]

Just moved from legacy 6.25 to new 10.60 - honestly, I already regret that I gave in to the reminder notes to transition that would show up 6 times per day. And I really understand that legacy versions cannot be 'kept' forever. However: Opening a new note takes about 9 seconds (yes, I timed it ... ) - on Desktop, Win 10, super fast Internet and Notebook. Please find a way to fix the RTE (if you feel it is absolutely necessary) in a different way - and allow users to get their work done efficiently. For example, provide an option whether users want RTE or they are fine with sync 5 min afterwards ... so sad.

[PinkElephant 8,304]

If you „just“ switched, it is „still“ downloading everything. So what you get is practically web client plus app overhead. With a full download, on my Mac it usually takes 1-2 seconds to open a note.

Since you likely have several GB of data, that needs to be downloaded, it will take a while.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,986]

1 hour ago, wetter11 said:

Just moved from legacy 6.25 to new 10.60 - honestly, I already regret that I gave in to the reminder notes to transition that would show up 6 times per day. And I really understand that legacy versions cannot be 'kept' forever. However: Opening a new note takes about 9 seconds (yes, I timed it ... ) - on Desktop, Win 10, super fast Internet and Notebook. Please find a way to fix the RTE (if you feel it is absolutely necessary) in a different way - and allow users to get their work done efficiently. For example, provide an option whether users want RTE or they are fine with sync 5 min afterwards ... so sad.

As @PinkElephant said, the new installation (which is what v. 10 is) does take a little time to download the notes database, and while it's doing this it may slow down the creation of new notes, I imagine. Also, when older notes are opened for the first time (not on subsequent opens) they have to be converted to the new syncing data structure, and this can cause a delay of anywhere from 2 or 3 seconds to half a minute, depending on ... on factors that none of us can ascertain, unfortunately.

All which is to say that it will get faster and better as time goes on. And there will be no more note conflicts.

Please be aware that these are basically user-to-user-forums, not a way of addressing Evernote directly. From what I've seen as one of those users here, RTE requires a different structure of the underlying data, and running both the old and new structures simultaneously at user preference is not a good long-term option either technically or economically. Also, there has been some fixing of the RTE in a different way since its introduction in May, I think, and definitely a great improvement in the back-end processes involved, so that it is now working more nearly as it was intended to do.

[dmully 1]

I'm running version 10.60.4 and I'm still experiencing the never ending "Saving..." message with the Evernote app on MacOS Ventura 13.5. While it's saving, it only displays a blank page. I don't think it's a delay/upload issue as some documents create before/after are unaffected. This happens at work and my home network. It's intermittent, as some notes are unaffected, but I can leave Evernote open for hours and the note stays at "Saving...". Any suggestions?

[gazumped 11,780]

14 hours ago, dmully said:

Any suggestions?

These Forums are mainly user 2 user but subscribers can raise support queries here - https://help.evernote.com/hc/requests/new and all users here - https://twitter.com/evernotehelps (or via the feedback option where it is available). 

[agsteele 2,985]

Actually, feedback is available to do via Email to feedback@evernote.com

But remember this isn't a support option. Just a place to submit ideas. So stick with @gazumped's support options.

[realistdreamer 23]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:56 PM, gazumped said:

1. Backupery creates enex files from notebooks
2. Filterize adds tags, moves notes between notebooks and maintains themed 'table of contents' notes with (forinstance) "all tasks due in the next 7 days"
3. Postach.io converts existing notes into blog pages" - all of which is done by them -not me- as a new edit is syncing

@gazumped, just to clarify as I'm not very familiar - You're not using any of these services to actually edit Evernote note content?  From my reading they are reading notes, adding metadata (tags), moving notes, and converting notes.  Is that right? 

I ask because I don't believe any 3rd party app is currently able to edit a note under any circumstances, closed or not (which is different than indicated previously).  I'm looking for any contrary evidence but haven't heard any.  As this is a result of RTE (I believe), I'm posting here. 

[gazumped 11,780]

12 minutes ago, realistdreamer said:

ou're not using any of these services to actually edit Evernote note content?

Filterize is maintaining ToC notes for me - that's searching (I guess) for notes matching a test,  then replacing the existing ToC content with links to the qualifying notes.  So I think that qualifies as either creating a new note with content,  or editing an existing note content. (I'm not sure how the mechanics are dealt with).

Postach.io somehow takes a copy of a note and converts it to an HTML-intensive web format so what's involved there I have no clue.

I did check with Filterize when the number of actions they report to me dropped sharply with the introduction of RTE,  but I was assured that while they initially had a problem with slower response times,  that issue had been resolved...

[realistdreamer 23]

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

Filterize is maintaining ToC notes for me - that's searching (I guess) for notes matching a test,  then replacing the existing ToC content with links to the qualifying notes.  So I think that qualifies as either creating a new note with content,  or editing an existing note content.

Thanks for this.  Turns out they don't edit notes at all at least not via the API.

From filterize:

Quote

 

We store and process only necessary data like your notebook and tag names, but not the content of your notes.

Filterize cannot delete your notes, tags or notebooks permanently. It will not remove or replace your note content.

 

What their TOC or Dashboard does - according to their site - is use a query from Evernote's search syntax, that is then auto-updated by Evernote when the results of that query change.  Very clever,  but not editing a note.

[John in Michigan USA 129]

On 8/18/2023 at 12:51 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

As @PinkElephant said, the new installation (which is what v. 10 is) does take a little time to download the notes database, and while it's doing this it may slow down the creation of new notes, I imagine. Also, when older notes are opened for the first time (not on subsequent opens) they have to be converted to the new syncing data structure, and this can cause a delay of anywhere from 2 or 3 seconds to half a minute, depending on ... on factors that none of us can ascertain, unfortunately.

All which is to say that it will get faster and better as time goes on. And there will be no more note conflicts.

Please be aware that these are basically user-to-user-forums, not a way of addressing Evernote directly. From what I've seen as one of those users here, RTE requires a different structure of the underlying data, and running both the old and new structures simultaneously at user preference is not a good long-term option either technically or economically. Also, there has been some fixing of the RTE in a different way since its introduction in May, I think, and definitely a great improvement in the back-end processes involved, so that it is now working more nearly as it was intended to do.

I've seen no evidence that a new installation "...will get faster and better as time goes on". I sometimes see a modest performance gain, but only until the next couple of app updates. Based on my experience with app updates, they are "updating your database / this may take a few minutes" (an actual message on my Moto phone Android today) with every 2nd or 3rd app update. Today's update is only special in that it actually *disclosed* to me that it was updating my database in some important way, a way that could account for the fact that the app is again slow after today's update. Many database updates happen silently, with a message only displaying briefly, if at all!! the first time you launch the app after update. It is safe to assume that future updates will keep needing to rebuild the database, and this app will stay slow for the foreseeable future. Slowness includes having to rebuild other dynamic lists, such as the menu commands that displays a list of saved searches or shortcuts.

Constant updating is still the normal experience with this app. Constant updating means the app is always rebuilding, so it is always janky, slow, and frustrating to use. And you have to use it excessively, because you're constantly making changes, waiting for slow RTE to sync, then testing to see if your changes really did save. Mostly, they do save, but the failure rate (c. 10-20% at times) is enough that you ave to check every important edit you make!

Only once this app major version is "mature" (i.e. they stop issuing major updates and start talking about replacing it) will we be in a position to evaluate if "it gets faster and better as time goes on" and if these improvements are worth the inevitable new or regressed bugs (re-)introduced along the way. As this is not my first rodeo, I know better than to try  and document those bugs to EN. Most bug reports vanish without a trace, and most bug fixes are detected by "happy accident".

Meanwhile, internal links from legacy pages do not survive many of these database upgrades. I fix them as I find them, only to have them break again with no warning, due to yet another "upgrade".

This is not OK!

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,986]

@John in Michigan USA, there seems to be quite a bit of speculation in that long post. I'm having no problems with Evernote's speeds, on my mid-range Windows 10 laptop with a good home WiFi connection. I've seen no evidence of the database getting rebuilt, unless I uninstall and then re-install. Ordinary updates don't seem to be doing that. All I can say is, I accept your experience of slow performance, but I don't think it's happening to everyone.

[PinkElephant 8,304]

In fact there is some notification that the database is optimized after each 4th/5th release, as my estimate.

It is not clear if the database is only revised, like recreating the search index, or really rebuild, or even altered in its structure and maybe the fields included. It can be that the database is already altered, even when the changes of the active software have not been introduced.

We were informed it was like that when RTE rolled out: The clients all had the new module already, but it was only activated when the individual users server was taken down to have his database updated as well.

I think it is often necessary to do this "hidden" optimization to allow a seamless upgrading.

About links: I didn't use links much, but up to now I had no broken links. Sure they should survive (as any other user generated content) whatever database magic is done.

[pdenicolao 4]

On 8/20/2023 at 9:44 PM, dmully said:

I'm running version 10.60.4 and I'm still experiencing the never ending "Saving..." message with the Evernote app on MacOS Ventura 13.5. While it's saving, it only displays a blank page. I don't think it's a delay/upload issue as some documents create before/after are unaffected. This happens at work and my home network. It's intermittent, as some notes are unaffected, but I can leave Evernote open for hours and the note stays at "Saving...". Any suggestions?

Try logging out and logging in from the web client, and load the note after logging in. That could fix it.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,986]

There is excellent technical information about what they've actually been doing in the way of changing structures, etc., in the recent blog post: Future-proofing Evernote’s foundations | Evernote Blog.

[Dave Green 214]

On 8/21/2023 at 3:10 PM, gazumped said:

Filterize is maintaining ToC notes for me - that's searching (I guess) for notes matching a test,  then replacing the existing ToC content with links to the qualifying notes.  So I think that qualifies as either creating a new note with content,  or editing an existing note content. (I'm not sure how the mechanics are dealt with).

Postach.io somehow takes a copy of a note and converts it to an HTML-intensive web format so what's involved there I have no clue.

I did check with Filterize when the number of actions they report to me dropped sharply with the introduction of RTE,  but I was assured that while they initially had a problem with slower response times,  that issue had been resolved...

@gazumpedIs Filterize working for you making ToC notes?  It is not working for me.

As an example, I have filterize ToC which produces links to 10 notes chosen randomly.  The page in Evernote is blank, but looking at the note history, the current version shows the list.  Today, I made a new page with the new Toc Marker in it to see if there was crude in the file but no joy -- same behavior.

Can you describe something that works for you?

[AlbertR 571]

6 hours ago, Dave Green said:

Is Filterize working for you making ToC notes?  It is not working for me.

Works fine for me. You may find a short description of my way to create a daily ToC of important notes in https://tinyurl.com/ToCs-by-Make-and-Filterize - HTH

• Overall workflow description
• Preliminary work
  • Filterize: Create a note in EN that defines format of your diary pages
• Defining the workflow
  • Make: Create a note every day at 00:05 o'clock
  • Filterize: Create a ToC rule
  • Filterize: Create filters

[Dave Green 214]

5 hours ago, AlbertR said:

Works fine for me. You may find a short description of my way to create a daily ToC of important notes in https://tinyurl.com/ToCs-by-Make-and-Filterize - HTH

• Overall workflow description
• Preliminary work
  • Filterize: Create a note in EN that defines format of your diary pages
• Defining the workflow
  • Make: Create a note every day at 00:05 o'clock
  • Filterize: Create a ToC rule
  • Filterize: Create filters

Thanks for the reply and document.  I am using the macOS version of the macOS client in case that is relevant, although I have seen the same issue with Web Client and Safari browser.

Interesting.  It appears that you only let Filterize run under controlled conditions -- i.e., at a certain time that you are creating a new note through the API, then letting Filterize not using Evernote with a client -- correct?  That probably avoids any interaction with a client and Real-Time Editing (RTE) on the new note until after Filterize is done.   I want it to work as it did prior to RTE and make changes as the rules are fired even when I am using the client.  I have tried moving away from the page with the marker in the client, and closing the client after the change (faster, I think, than Filterize saw it from looking at the Filterize status page) -- no joy.  All of this worked pre-RTE.

This Evernote-shared page documents my situtation.

[AlbertR 571]

46 minutes ago, Dave Green said:

I am using the macOS ... client in case that is relevant, although I have seen the same issue with Web Client and Safari browser.

Filterize is independant from any EN-client. It works directely with server data.

48 minutes ago, Dave Green said:

That probably avoids any interaction with a client and Real-Time Editing (RTE) on the new note until after Filterize is done.

It might be influenced by RTE: If Filterize is going to change anything within a note (and creating ToCs is such an activity and this note is currently opened within any client, Filterize fails to change the note because the "RTE room" for this note is open.

Im my use case this this is not a problem because all activity is run by API from Filterize itself early in the morning when nobody has opened the diary note in any client.

So please check your workflow: Avoid having a note open in your client after you have changed anything with the note (including tag changes). This might fire the Filterize action before your client closes the "RTE room" 😞. Exactly this is Filterize's (other other API users') problem. I don't know where Filterize developers have worked around the problem by waiting some minutes if they get an API answer like "cannot sync because a RTE room is open for that note".

I have tried moving away from the page with the marker in the client, and closing the client after the change (faster, I think, than Filterize saw it from looking at the Filterize status page) -- no joy. 

Oups - you got it already. Sorry for my redundant words. 😉

You might implement a procedure like mine to create new copies of your note controlled by scheduling a Make scenario... But this is only wasted time in case Filterize and|or EN find a solution. (Filterize: try to resync after some minutes; EN: find a way to avoid long lasting RTE-room-open operations or give us back an explicitely-sync-button together with an option to not use RTE 🙏.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,986]

I hope this discussion will be submitted to Guinness for World's Most Magnificent Thread Drift. No criticism. Just sayin'.

[Peter Olins 66]

On 8/18/2023 at 10:51 AM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

the new installation (which is what v. 10 is) does take a little time to download the notes database,

Agreed.

A fresh installation of EN on a mac took over 2 months to build a local database of (38K) Notes, with an estimated 5% of Note contents still missing. The build appears to have stalled. This won't matter to many, but is important for people who want  to use EN offline and search for Note contents.

[Dave Green 214]

9 hours ago, AlbertR said:

Filterize: try to resync after some minutes; EN: find a way to avoid long lasting RTE-room-open operations or give us back an explicitely-sync-button together with an option to not use RTE 🙏.

I have talked to both support teams.  Thanks for your thoughts.

4 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

I hope this discussion will be submitted to Guinness for World's Most Magnificent Thread Drift. No criticism. Just sayin'.

Grin (and apologies -- I did not see RTE and Filterize elsewhere and branched off a report on Filterize.) 

[Metrodon 2,187]

On 8/20/2023 at 8:44 PM, dmully said:

I'm running version 10.60.4 and I'm still experiencing the never ending "Saving..." message with the Evernote app on MacOS Ventura 13.5. While it's saving, it only displays a blank page. I don't think it's a delay/upload issue as some documents create before/after are unaffected. This happens at work and my home network. It's intermittent, as some notes are unaffected, but I can leave Evernote open for hours and the note stays at "Saving...". Any suggestions?

I opened a ticket for this, the instructions I received that resolved the problem were:

 

Quote

1. Sign out of your account.
2. Restart your computer.
3. Sign back in to Evernote.

For what it's worth, I didn't reboot my mac and I did remove downloaded data when I signed out so I had to download everything again.

[Boot17 1,490]

I know it's been a while since any comments have been made in this thread, but rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd come back to the OG thread and share a remark.

I just wanted to say that RTE is working fantastically for me as someone that uses Evernote solo on multiple machines at the same time.

I was downstairs watching some training videos and I had some thoughts about something that I jotted down in a note that I had open on my other machine upstairs. I jotted them down and come back to the upstairs machine; woke it up from sleep and my thoughts from downstairs are there ready to go. It was seamless and I didn't have to think about it.

I'll quite often work in Evernote on two different Macs and have no issues working on the same opened note. Have had great success doing it with the iPad too when I need to sketch a thing or two.

I haven't had any lost data issues for many months know (well, that I know of!)

Kudos and thanks to Bending Spoons for this one. Keep up the great work here.

Anybody else having good success with RTE?

[gazumped 11,780]

6 minutes ago, Boot17 said:

Anybody else having good success with RTE?

Yep - similar sort of deal;  I mainly work on Win11 desktop but my tablet is often open with a note on view,  plus the app and a tab on my browser with the web version.  If I happen to be viewing the same note on more than one device,  my changes appear on the other(s) almost instantly.  Very reassuring.  My travelling access is a W10 laptop and like you I occasionally use it in the evening to give myself reminders or save interesting clips.  Again the tablet usually shows the updates going up.

[tyoung77 40]

Ditto. I am pleasantly pleased as well. They fixed bugs in the Android app where it would sometime lose the entire body of the first note I wrote in the morning just when I am jotting down a brainstorm. 

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,986]

I had an experience similar to yours a month or two ago, @Boot17. I was working late on my Android phone as its battery was nearly drained. Foolishly, I just kept typing, and the phone died in the middle of a word. I turned on my laptop, fired up Evernote for Windows, and found that everything was there, down to the last 2 letters I typed before the phone died. I was kind of stunned. It really gave me confidence that sync really is happening as I type.

[Dave Green 214]

I have noticed that if I have a separate window open on a note (not the main window), there is a chance the change won't be visible to the note.  In a perfect world, I might close Evernote on my Mac before moving to the iPhone but in practice, it is easier to close Evernote on the Mac when I come back, and immediately reopen it.  I have to relocate these extra windows but it does have everything synced up.

[Tcellguy 71]

I'm glad others are having success. Much of the time RTE is working for me. However, I still have the same bug active on all my computers since RTE was rolled out. If I have a note in an open window and the Mac goes to sleep at some point the note will disconnect and the only way to get it to reconnect is to restart the application. Since they removed the "toggle note status" from troubleshooting I can't tell if the note is disconnected anymore. So I have to remember to restart Evernote every time I use it so I don't merge old and new versions of notes. It does seem to disconnect less often than before, but it's still not reliable enough to trust. 

My iPad experience is a mixed bag and often fully disconnects from RTE and then randomly reconnects and reverts my notes on the server to the older non synced iPad version. I've been doing a lot of restoring from note history. 

[ChristianJB 96]

7 hours ago, Boot17 said:

Anybody else having good success with RTE?

Yes, RTE works very well for me!
In general, the entire synchronization also works very quickly and reliably with my Android device (Galaxy S23).

[AlbertR 571]

The usecase "Working on different maschines" is perfectly covered by RTE.

But I'm working mostly on one maschine and use tags to fire some automation tasks (like ">>n" to shift a reminder by n days, " 'Rename-PDF" adjust scanned PDF file names) and create|update TOCs periodically. Thereby I often change titles and created dates.

Doing such metadata work in parallel to IDE access on server side often leads to problems with RTE where changes cannot be done in the background or will be un-done after some seconds or minutes. Hope these problems will go away with RENT 🙏

[Alxa 483]

RTE for me in general works well for basic note content, too. What still does not work is syncing of tasks. One example: Changing of task titles for example on Android are made undone by the windows clients lateron. Still cannot use tasks at all because of that.

[ChristianJB 96]

30 minutes ago, Alxa said:

What still does not work is syncing of tasks. One example: Changing of task titles for example on Android are made undone by the windows clients lateron. Still cannot use tasks at all because of that.

Just did a quick test, created a new task in the Windows client, changed it on my Android device, it is then displayed correctly in the Windows client. True, it hasn't always worked like this.

[bmcl26 527]

Working seamlessly for me as well Win11 Desktop & Android Phone.  No issues.

[Alxa 483]

I retried after your comments with the new Android 10.67.0 and could reproduce the issue on my end. Setup: two Android clients, one windows client running in the same Wifi with latest clients. All clients are running and online (on screen). Creating a task on one Android, "Test8" in an existing note with other content in it. Immeditaly after sync the task was renamed on all clients to "Test". On another try i get "Test8"  changed to "Test88" several minutes after the initial sync showed "Test8" correctly on all devices. Cannot reproduce this all the time, it is intermittently. Very weird. Reminds me of an early bug, where the last characters typed had not been synced. Maybe tasks are treated as "metadata". Therefore will try tasks again when they introduce RENT.

Some user here, that experience similar issues with task sync since RTE?

 

[Paul A. 652]

A day or two ago I was looking up some saved PDFs on Android and saw the dreaded "Untitled Attachment" instead of the actual file name. Earlier this year this lead to lost attachments and lost data (multiple times). Thankfully, this time the issue resolved itself (not sure what I did exactly, maybe backed out to the note list or did a pull-down refresh) and I was able to open the files.

So, progress, though I would prefer not to see "Untitled Attachment" ever again. And I'm not entirely sure the attachment data loss issue is 100% resolved across all platforms, which still concerns me.

[PinkElephant 8,304]

What usually works for me is to briefly leave the note, open another, and then return. The attachment will then show.

This indicates it might be a issue of loading the note completely.