Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks

[cswsteve 85]

I think Evernote is a fantastic product, especially with the iPhone integration. I currently use a program called UltraRecall because of it's heavy use of subfolders. This makes organizing my data very logical. I was wondering if Evernotes has a way to create subnotebooks under existing notebooks to help group numerious notebooks together?

Example Notebooks:

Work

Clients

Customer1

Customer2

Customer3

Customer4

Personal

Electronics

Web Clips

[DTLow 5,736]

46 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

Nested folders are how we have all learned to use computers. Search fails if you can't remember the exact words, so effective browsing will always be necessary.

Evernote has no support for folders      
- the organization tools are notebooks and tags (note metadata fields)   
For "effective browsing", try using the notebook/tag trees

[lemonsalt 2]

21 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Evernote have never given any indication of approval or otherwise.  One of their techs has commented that adding a hierarchy to their current structure is IMPOSSIBLE,  so I don't think they can do anything about losing customers for the moment.  There is however a major restructuring going on which may improve things from your point of view.  Meantime I'm managing to maintain a database of 51,000 notes and I can find what I need,  when I need it, with very little difficulty. 

If you don't get on with the flat database style though,  that's fine - there are lots of options for you.

This is helpful. I didn’t realize it was impossible, and that clarifies things. There are lots of other options, but most of them are from startups that may prove no more stable than Evernote has been in recent years. 

[DTLow 5,736]

48 minutes ago, olek3a said:

I only wish they wouldn't discontinue search by geolocation. 

I wasn't aware of any plans to discontinue this   
Can you explain how you use "search by geolocation"
The search documentation has this

[olek3a 2]

14 hours ago, DTLow said:

I wasn't aware of any plans to discontinue this   
Can you explain how you use "search by geolocation"
The search documentation has this

I meant the user-friendly Atlas UI. Those search attributes I would use only in desperate need. I can't remember all my 'POI's, so I would need to check a map first for that.

[Gone South 1]

What a long discussion... been going on for years. There's clearly a user desire for nested Notebooks beyond the current 2 levels. And there's clearly technical reasons Evernote can't offer the feature. Stalemate!

Tags can work as a substitute, but require rigorous maintenance. You can't just create a tag off the top of your head and... forget it. Do that often enough, you won't find your special tree in the forest.

My solution is to use the Stacks and Notebooks for Big Topic areas. Then I use tags to emulate the menu structure below the Notebook level.

I have two gigantic tag hierarchies:

My business tags are all A-Z alphanumeric: A0000 to (theoretically) Z0000. So... > C0600 Insurance > C0603 Medical.

Non-business tags start numeric: 1...99. So... > 20 Investments > 21 Software setup.

It takes some discipline to keep it clean, but it's all I can do to keep thousands of Notes from getting lost.

I'd still like to see nested folders, which would simplify the vast number and rigid structure of my tag system.

 

[lemonsalt 2]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:21 PM, Ian Small said:

1) I would be legitimately interested in understanding what others think the difference between these two things are.  To me (admittedly, not having read the entirety of this 11-year-long forum discussion because I think the general drift is right there in the discussion thread title), they seem at first blush to be the same.  Note:  I think this is a question solely about notebooks, not about tags.

2) When we get on the other side of this huge lift we are in the middle of, I look forward to moving on to dealing with issues like putting this 11-year-long forum discussion to bed.  Not next week, not next month, but certainly not taking another 11 years to get there...  That's the kind of thing we're trying to free ourselves up to do - provide functionality improvements that are made impossible by the knots our current infrastructure and app layer has us tied up in.  But right now it's one thing at a time, and this first thing we're tackling is proving to be a difficult beast to tame.  Apparently, there's something to that thing they used to say on the Bugs Bunny / Road Runner Show:  "Watch that first step... it's a big one."

Back to lurking
ian

Hi Ian,

To me, notebooks are for browsing and tags are for search. I use EN for lots of web clippings as well as notes, so people don't always use the same name for things. Yesterday I needed to find all my notes and clippings about the "meta description tag", but some of them didn't come up in search because the authors had called it "the "description" meta tag" or other ways of saying the same thing. And I hadn't tagged the articles "meta description" at the time I saved them, because that hadn't been the focus of those notes at that point.

So I went to one of your competitors, where I'd recently imported my Evernote to give it a try. I had made nested notebooks the way I wish I could in Evernote, and all my HTML notes were in a sub-notebook that had few enough notes that I could browse and find the notes I was after.

This feature - plus the ability to custom sort notebooks in the sidebar - is so important to me that I've tried a lot of competitors who offer it. All of them lack something I really like from EN, but then EN lacks two features I really need, so I'm going to have to make a choice.

[DTLow 5,736]

5 hours ago, lemonsalt said:

notebooks are for browsing and tags are for search.

Browsing???     
Does that mean navigating using the notebook tree in the sidebar?    
Is there a reason "browsing" can't use the tag tree?
 

[lemonsalt 2]

17 hours ago, DTLow said:

Browsing???     
Does that mean navigating using the notebook tree in the sidebar?    
Is there a reason "browsing" can't use the tag tree?
 

No, it means browsing through each individual note in the notebook. Skimming the content of each note, which is much easier when you have 12 notes in a subnotebook than when you have hundreds in a more general notebook.

I'm anticipating someone will next ask why I don't have hundreds of notebooks in stacks to break it all down. I used to, but a lot of the stacks were too similar and it made things confusing. I research hundreds of topics a year, and I find a nested directory structure much more efficient for my brain to find things it only vaguely recalls.

It seems clear from this thread that EN could now add the nested notebooks due to the recent changes in the base code, but they still don't understand why it's important to some of us, and that's why I've replied here. Seeing that EN doesn't get it, but Nimbus Note, Notejoy, Notion and OneNote do, I accept that it's time to cancel my subscription and move to one of the others.

[DTLow 5,736]

22 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

No, it means browsing through each individual note in the notebook. Skimming the content of each note,

Same question, why not "browsing through each individual note in the notebook tag"
given that notebooks and tags are two fields in the note metadata

[lemonsalt 2]

2 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Same question, why not "browsing through each individual note in the notebook tag"
given that notebooks and tags are two fields in the note metadata

Again, I hadn't tagged the notes with "meta description" when making them because that wasn't the focus of them at that point. So which tag would I have browsed? Looking now, I see quite a few that could have the notes I needed, and it still adds up to skimming hundreds of notes.

[DTLow 5,736]

20 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

So which tag would I have browsed?

Here's an example; Notebook "Recipes"
                               or Tag "Recipes"

If I want to browse my recipes notes, I would browse tag "Recipes" 
 

[lemonsalt 2]

1 hour ago, DTLow said:

Same question, why not "browsing through each individual note in the notebook tag"
given that notebooks and tags are two fields in the note metadata

As I said, the various relevant tags in this case included hundreds of notes to skim. Maybe I’m the only EN a user trying to find specific articles I only vaguely recollect. Maybe this is a researcher thing, and EN is for people who live their lives from project to project at work or school, who will finish a project and never need to see the notes for that project again. But I need to be able to retrieve specific  notes and web clippings I saw years ago, and more hierarchy is helpful. That’s why computers were designed with directories within directories - that’s how researchers, librarians and academics classify information. I get that EN isn’t for me and doesn’t want to be for me, so I will find another tool. 

[gazumped 11,667]

5 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

That’s why computers were designed with directories within directories - that’s how researchers, librarians and academics classify information.

Agreed that's how paper filing worked,  which - I believe - simply got translated into computer folders and sub folders at the time.  Alternative ways to index information now exist,  but some users are happy with those,  and others are not.  It's best though to go with what you know - as you've already indicated is your intention.

[DTLow 5,736]

8 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

That’s why computers were designed with directories within directories

There's no support for directories in Evernote   
We only have the Notebook and Tag fields    
Tags are the primary organization tool, with unlimited levels (hierarchy)

[lemonsalt 2]

43 minutes ago, DTLow said:

There's no support for directories in Evernote   
We only have the Notebook and Tag fields    
Tags are the primary organization tool, with unlimited levels (hierarchy)

Obviously notebooks are analogous to directories. Didn’t realize that needed to be spelled out. 

[DTLow 5,736]

17 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

Obviously notebooks are analogous to directories. Didn’t realize that needed to be spelled out. 

That's not correct   
Notebooks, like Tags are simply fields in the note metadata

Directories, also known as Folders, are a legacy filing methodology   
Some users emulate directories/folders using the notebook/tag trees

[CalS 5,280]

2 hours ago, lemonsalt said:

But I need to be able to retrieve specific  notes and web clippings I saw years ago, and more hierarchy is helpful.

In my view text search is the key differentiation for EN.  Whether one is a tagger or a notebooker or neither search in EN works great for finding that elusive note, in All Notes context or whatever.  Type in a couple key words and see what appears.  More than once structure has failed me and text search has saved me.  My structure is tags.  FWIW.

Edited November 16, 2020 by CalS
Clarify text search

[CalS 5,280]

4 minutes ago, DTLow said:

That would be Text search   
which differs from note lists generated by Notebook/Tag search

So amended.

[lemonsalt 2]

20 hours ago, CalS said:

In my view text search is the key differentiation for EN.  Whether one is a tagger or a notebooker or neither search in EN works great for finding that elusive note, in All Notes context or whatever.  Type in a couple key words and see what appears.  More than once structure has failed me and text search has saved me.  My structure is tags.  FWIW.

I've clearly explained why EN search is perfectly useless and won't explain it to you again. You seem to have all day to spend on these forums, because you're in every thread about notebook hierarchy, arguing that tags should be just fine. It's not just us. I don't have the kind of time you appear to, because I've got to move everything over to Nimbus Note today and get away from the timesuck that is EN and its user forums. Enjoy having the last word.

[CalS 5,280]

2 hours ago, lemonsalt said:

I've clearly explained why EN search is perfectly useless and won't explain it to you again. You seem to have all day to spend on these forums, because you're in every thread about notebook hierarchy, arguing that tags should be just fine. It's not just us. I don't have the kind of time you appear to, because I've got to move everything over to Nimbus Note today and get away from the timesuck that is EN and its user forums. Enjoy having the last word.

WOW.  Good luck.  Good last word, luck.

[Flier 19]

2 hours ago, lemonsalt said:

I've clearly explained why EN search is perfectly useless and won't explain it to you again. You seem to have all day to spend on these forums, because you're in every thread about notebook hierarchy, arguing that tags should be just fine. It's not just us. I don't have the kind of time you appear to, because I've got to move everything over to Nimbus Note today and get away from the timesuck that is EN and its user forums. Enjoy having the last word.

Quite funny, actually.  DTLow has spent years on this thread, which I monitor in the forlorn hope that EN will mature someday to the point of giving us the MS-DOS state of the art in data organization.

The  pattern is always the same.  A user posts that they need hierarchical folders. DTLow immediately jumps in to explain to the benighted user why said user doesn't actually need what they need. Sometimes a little dialog ensues, then DTLow posts some kind of tag workaround that makes EN pretend to be something it isn't.  Then the user goes away.

I use EN only as a sort of ragbag, mostly containing web page clips.  I find things mostly with text searches.  My serious data is organized seriously, elsewhere.

There was a post a year or two from an EN employee developer who intimated that they were working on catching up with MS-DOS.  But nothing since.

 

[DTLow 5,736]

2 hours ago, Flier said:

A user posts that they need hierarchical folders. DTLow immediately jumps in to explain to the benighted user why said user doesn't actually need what they need.

Actually I will point out that Folders are not supported by Evernote and suggest work-arounds using the notebook/tag trees

>>state of the art in data organization

"State of the art" replaces folder methodology with tag methodology    
To enable this, Evernote provides two note metadata fields; Notebooks and Tags

>>MS-DOS

I remember MS-DOS; wasn't aware it was being widely used

[Tazzz 21]

Multiple notebooks need to happen as soon as possible.

Folders aka notebooks/stacks is the logical hierachical system that everybody knows and uses, no matter what OS or app they are using. I don't care how they are defined in the backend by developers, if they are "truly" folders or not. Nobody cares. If you get a new Evernote user and ask him to create a hierachical tree, he will do it like this. 99+ out of 100 people will do it like this, and see them as folders.

Tags are great, but not for this purpose. Trying to reinvent the internet in a dumber way and with no real benefit whatsoever is a fool's gambit. You only get user frustration, time waste and a poor user experience & usability.

PS - Humble oppinion of a UI/UX designer with about 15 years of experience under his belt.

 

[gazumped 11,667]

3 hours ago, Tazzz said:

Trying to reinvent the internet

Hierarchical folders aren't the invention of the internet - they're a reflection of how paper files were assembled in the days when offices had filing cabinets and shelving instead of terminals,  which in themselves were an interpretation of the really old days of pigeon holes and rolled parchments.  It's not a 'given' that things should be designed on that format,  but it was a design decision taken by Evernote in the early days,  which up to now has curtailed their ability to change how things work in the app.  Once we've actually got the basics all back and working again,  maybe this is something that they can take a look at.  In the meantime - despite its apparently 'essential' nature - we've managed without the option for more than a decade.  We should be able to struggle on for another year...

[DTLow 5,736]

4 hours ago, Tazzz said:

Folders aka notebooks/stacks

Wrong; Folders are a different filing method than the notebook/tag methodology used by Evernote
Users can emulate folder hierarchy by using the notebook/tag trees

[gazumped 11,667]

5 minutes ago, x9sim9 said:

Take it from someone who has been active on the en boards for almost 10 years

And you posted 14 times?  I keep on making the point that Evernote haven't had the ability to make some of the changes that have been requested until literally this past few weeks when they launched the new code base.

[x9sim9 7]

3 minutes ago, gazumped said:

And you posted 14 times?  I keep on making the point that Evernote haven't had the ability to make some of the changes that have been requested until literally this past few weeks when they launched the new code base.

Why does everyone seem to think this is such a huge Developement job, it really isnt, it is insanely simple to add a 3rd or 4th tier to stacks. This job has never been implemented because they want people to use tags, regardless of whether tags are actually useful to the end user.

[DTLow 5,736]

8 minutes ago, x9sim9 said:

it is insanely simple to add a 3rd or 4th tier to stacks

That's the same mistake as when notebook stacks were implemented   
Do it right with parent/child elements for unlimited levels

[x9sim9 7]

1 minute ago, DTLow said:

That's the same mistake as when notebook stacks were implemented   
Do it right with parent/child elements for unlimited levels

if right takes 12 years+ to be implemented I would more than happy with a quick fix....

[gazumped 11,667]

2 hours ago, x9sim9 said:

it is insanely simple to add a 3rd or 4th tier to stacks.

I bow to your superior technical skills,  but doing that across the (former) several operating systems and varied devices for 200M users active around the world 365/24/7?

I'd bet that not many folks have worked on that sort of project...

[PinkElephant 8,117]

The tree-type folder structures came with computers, and they were rooted in the file systems. There is nothing natural about it, it was how files were organized on disks, back then (and still today).

Ever searched an invoice (before filing it in EN) to claim warranty ? Where may it be - in the invoices folder, with the product documentation, at the accountant with the tax stuff, with the suppliers data etc . ? What is the natural reaction ? Copies. Which translates in IT into duplicates, the bane of all folder type structures.

Yes, EN forces you to rethink this. First, find it all by search. Second, if you want structure, use tags. If there would be deeply nested notebooks, this rethinking would not happen, and we would produce again duplicates. Which makes searching difficult (which copy is the right one ?).

My opinion: Take it, as it is, and learn to use it to its full potential.

Or switch to another app.

[DTLow 5,736]

5 hours ago, Tazzz said:

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Looks like a folder, acts like a folder, so it is a freaking folder. From the point of view of everyone that uses it.

As I said, use the the notebook/tag trees   
They pass the duck test

[x9sim9 7]

4 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

The tree-type folder structures came with computers, and they were rooted in the file systems. There is nothing natural about it, it was how files were organized on disks, back then (and still today).

Ever searched an invoice (before filing it in EN) to claim warranty ? Where may it be - in the invoices folder, with the product documentation, at the accountant with the tax stuff, with the suppliers data etc . ? What is the natural reaction ? Copies. Which translates in IT into duplicates, the bane of all folder type structures.

Yes, EN forces you to rethink this. First, find it all by search. Second, if you want structure, use tags. If there would be deeply nested notebooks, this rethinking would not happen, and we would produce again duplicates. Which makes searching difficult (which copy is the right one ?).

My opinion: Take it, as it is, and learn to use it to its full potential.

Or switch to another app.

As much as I would like things to be different, your words are the only outcome. Evernote will never, ever implement this feature. Its been 12 years since this thread has started, trust me this has been discussed probably more than once by the Evernote development team.

Tags don't work for me, for many reasons already highlighted in this thread so I won't discuss them again here.

I left Evernote because of this missing feature and imported all of my notes into Nimbus Note, if you need this feature then its time consider another app. As this feature will NEVER be implemented in Evernote Ever!

[tavor 668]

4 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

The tree-type folder structures came with computers, and they were rooted in the file systems. There is nothing natural about it, it was how files were organized on disks, back then (and still today).

Ever searched an invoice (before filing it in EN) to claim warranty ? Where may it be - in the invoices folder, with the product documentation, at the accountant with the tax stuff, with the suppliers data etc . ? What is the natural reaction ? Copies. Which translates in IT into duplicates, the bane of all folder type structures.

Yes, EN forces you to rethink this. First, find it all by search. Second, if you want structure, use tags. If there would be deeply nested notebooks, this rethinking would not happen, and we would produce again duplicates. Which makes searching difficult (which copy is the right one ?).

My opinion: Take it, as it is, and learn to use it to its full potential.

Or switch to another app.

I'm a proponent of tags, I love them and find them more useful than folders. But I don't think current EN mgmt is as committed to tags as mgmt from the Libin days. Look at how Ian Small described tag usage as a tiny niche. I cannot imagine Libin talking like that - he'd be trying to spread the gospel of tagging. And apparently v10 has moved tags to the bottom of the interface, away from the note title. And I don't think many or any of the other note apps have ever pushed tags as hard as EN has.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I'm thinking that maybe current EN mgmt has decided EN has fought the good fight on tags, but that it's time to acknowledge that this isn't the hill to die on.

[Flier 19]

15 minutes ago, tavor said:

 ... Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I'm thinking that maybe current EN mgmt has decided EN has fought the good fight on tags, but that it's time to acknowledge that this isn't the hill to die on.

I've been following this inadequacy for years; a few years ago there was discussion/speculation that implementing a folder system might require a rip-up and re-do in an old and often-patched bunch of code.  IOW, risky and expensvie.  Then about two (?) years ago an EN employee intimated that folders were coming, driven by their aspirations of bigger corporate business.  I have seen nothing since, however.  Maybe this big re-write they are currently engaged in will also provide this missing capability.  (@dtlow, please don't bother to comment on my view that this is a "missing capability."  I have seen all your posts.  Over. And over. And over.)

So I continue to use EN as a sort of secondary tool in my box.  I keep looking at Nimbus Notes but the Russian ownership puts me off a little bit.  And I monitor here as the debate flares every month or so.  Someday I hope to see the announcement that the problem is solved.

[tavor 668]

28 minutes ago, Flier said:

I've been following this inadequacy for years; a few years ago there was discussion/speculation that implementing a folder system might require a rip-up and re-do in an old and often-patched bunch of code.  IOW, risky and expensvie.  Then about two (?) years ago an EN employee intimated that folders were coming, driven by their aspirations of bigger corporate business.  I have seen nothing since, however.  Maybe this big re-write they are currently engaged in will also provide this missing capability. 

I would be sad to see EN go this route as I think tags are superior, but yes, it does seem to me that EN is caving to the crowd (i.e., what all their competitors are doing, and what, according to Ian Small's claim that only 2% of users are using tags, what most of their userbase is doing).

Well, I call it caving, but I'm sure the *allegedly* 98% that don't use tags see it as sensibly responding to the userbase. In any case, I think you will get your wish.

[Flier 19]

10 minutes ago, tavor said:

I would be sad to see EN go this route as I think tags are superior, but yes, it does seem to me that EN is caving to the crowd (i.e., what all their competitors are doing, and what, according to Ian Small's claim that only 2% of users are using tags, what most of their userbase is doing).

Well, I call it caving, but I'm sure the *allegedly* 98% that don't use tags see it as sensibly responding to the userbase. In any case, I think you will get your wish.

I don't think anyone in this endless thread has advocated ditching the tags.  Certainly not me.  Having a folder structure is an additional capability not an either/or.  I would expect to use both, but if a tagaholic wanted to stick with tags that should certainly be possible.  Actually, it's requirement due to the size of the installed base.

Confession here:  I actually don't use tags in EN.  My usage is small enough (due to the absence of folders) that simple full-text searches work just fine.

 

[tavor 668]

8 hours ago, Flier said:

I don't think anyone in this endless thread has advocated ditching the tags. 

I get that. My concern is that by caving to the notebook mob, EN will de-emphasize tags. And indeed, that seems to be the case per Ian Smalls comment re: 2% and the rearrangement of the v10 window to put tags at the bottom. It's possible they may continue in that line and possibly eliminate nested tags, which I think is a feature many competitors do not have. For us tagaholics, nested tags is important for creating structure.

I knew that back in the Libin era when the gospel of tagging was sung from the rooftops, us tagaholics should have driven you notebook heathens out with pitchforks! Alas, we turned the other cheek, and now the notebook hordes are taking over while Small tacitly approves. The brotherhood/sisterhood of the tag is going to be overrun.*

 

 

* OK, that was perhaps a bit melodramatic, but I thought it was appropriate given the nature of this thread. 😛

[x9sim9 7]

On 1/3/2021 at 3:14 PM, Red Raven said:

Please please please, add this feature. It is the one and only feature that is making me consider dropping my Evernote subscription and finding an alternative. It seems like a hugely popular feature. If it's never coming to Evernote, I think it would be nice to hear from someone as to why, especially considering I pay for the program every year.

This feature request was made in 2008, its not going to happen, move to an alternative package, and migrate all of your existing notes, I had to...

[DTLow 5,736]

13 minutes ago, x9sim9 said:

move to an alternative package

I'm looking at Devonthink
Great product but no Notebooks

[s2sailor 2,204]

On 12/17/2020 at 10:52 AM, tavor said:

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I'm thinking that maybe current EN mgmt has decided EN has fought the good fight on tags, but that it's time to acknowledge that this isn't the hill to die on.

I’ve wondered if the reason why tags have been moved to the bottom of the window is to allow UI space at the top for displaying a future notebook tree.  Probably not, but moving the tag location must have been done for a conscious reason.

[CalS 5,280]

1 minute ago, s2sailor said:

I’ve wondered if the reason why tags have been moved to the bottom of the window is to allow UI space at the top for displaying a future notebook tree.  Probably not, but moving the tag location must have been done for a conscious reason.

Per one of the recent videos, and I  paraphrase from memory "... to move the not much used tag stuff out of prime screen real estate for something else more important..."  No definition of what that something else is though.

Interesting as well.  I updated my phone to V10 before the impact was obvious, shame on me.  Tags are at the top.  Not sure what that says about adherence to a a uniform experience.  It's a bit haphazard IMO.  There may be reasons no obvious to me though.  🤷‍♂️

[olek3a 2]

On 1/3/2021 at 9:14 AM, Red Raven said:

Please please please, add this feature. It is the one and only feature that is making me consider dropping my Evernote subscription and finding an alternative. It seems like a hugely popular feature. If it's never coming to Evernote, I think it would be nice to hear from someone as to why, especially considering I pay for the program every year.

I think OneNote would suit you. please, please, please consider it and let us enjoy the freedom of tags instead of folders.

[DTLow 5,736]

3 minutes ago, mikefinleyco said:

a search hierarchy (tags) instead of a visual hierarchy (Folders)

There's no support for Folders   
Instead, Evernote provides two metadata fields: notebooks and tags    
For visual hierarchy, use the notebook/tag trees in the sidebar

[PinkElephant 8,117]

@mikefinleyco Right, this comment is a no-brainer:

Nested folders are one-dimensional, which leads to duplication of information elements, be it  notes or files. Just because computers were build this way decades ago, "everybody“ uses it, when probably „nobody“ should. EN is by its design a no-nester for notes.

If you love nesting of folders so much, you should probably move to another service.

[PinkElephant 8,117]

@mikefinleyco Probably you should rethink your position.

You remember me of these thinkers of old age, that thought because they exist, the whole universe must rotate around them. Was proven wrong, just in case you were on sick leave when this was treated at school.

Everybody who joined EN joined a „no-notebook-nesting“ service. Obviously many did employ it with success, building sound structures with the building blocks offered to them. One can get the impression a few others failed to do so, and are now bitching around they need nesting and hierarchy to serve their linear way of thinking.

IMHO if you are mainly thinking in linear, hierarchical ways, you are better of with other services, that support organizing information the way you like it to be done. This is not offensive, humans are different, and one size does not fit all.

Others like me prefer to connect information network-like, non hierarchical. We are happy with how things are structured right now - and think EN should put their resources into more productive features.

If you look at the new „Home“ feature: This is classical networked design, simply can’t be done by organizing information by hierarchy.

[CalS 5,280]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

If you look at the new „Home“ feature: This is classical networked design, simply can’t be done by organizing information by hierarchy.

Well it is kind of a page with five sub pages, sort of hierarchical in view.  Just sayin''....   

[DTLow 5,736]

12 minutes ago, Tazzz said:

And many also think EN should put their resources into this as a priority

And many don't consider this feature a priority (in relation to other requests)
Personally, I have minimum notebooks
                    For organization, I use tags which supports a hierarchy (unlimited levels)

>>because sorting things based on tags is *****.

As noted - sort by Tags is not supported
I've always exported data to a spreadsheet to sort by tags (notes may have multiple tags)

[gazumped 11,667]

1 hour ago, Tazzz said:

sorting things based on tags is *****

There are other views on this...

Quote

 

But why use tags, when you could just use folders?

A file can only be in one folder at a time—but it could have an unlimited number of tags. Say you've made a project brief for a client and you want to save it in the specific project folder and to the client’s main folder. With folders, you'd have to pick one folder or duplicate the file, which could cause issues. Tags, on the other hand, are perfect for adding category data like this, since you can add as many tags as you want to a file. You could tag the document with both the project’s name and the client’s name, then save the file just in the project's folder.

 

https://zapier.com/blog/how-to-use-tags-and-labels/

[CalS 5,280]

4 minutes ago, Tazzz said:

And many consider it a priority. We can do this all day.

Folks been doing it for over 10 years now...  To no avail at this point.

[DTLow 5,736]

25 minutes ago, Tazzz said:

And many consider it a priority. We can do this all day.

Or for years, as per this discussion
I prefer to be more productive

1. Indicate support for this request using the vote button at the top left corner of the discussion
2. Adjust your workflow to make the best use of this product's feature set

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

[Tazzz 21]

Just now, DTLow said:

Or for years, as per this discussion
I prefer to be more productive

1. Indicate support for this request using the vote button at the top left corner of the discussion
2. Adjust your workflow to make the best use of the feature set for this product

1. That's what people here are doing. Voting and requesting. And then you come along being super productive for the last 10 years and tell each one they are wrong and how they should change the way they use a computer.
2. I am. And it includes folders.

[DTLow 5,736]

23 minutes ago, Tazzz said:

I am. And it includes folders.

Evernote has no support for folders; we only get the notebook/tag metadata fields

We can emulate folders using the notebook/tag trees

[DTLow 5,736]

Just now, Tazzz said:

Except notebooks are folders.

No, they're not.  As I said, Notebooks and Tags are metadata fields

[DTLow 5,736]

27 minutes ago, Tazzz said:

Yes, they are. From the user standpoint, which is what matters. Nobody cares how they are defined in backend.

It's off topic but please explain why you think Notebooks are folders    '

[CalS 5,280]

14 hours ago, tavor said:

Ouch. Checkmate.

2% (or was it 5%) according to no less an authority than the CEO.

Of what has been the question.  All accounts?  Active accounts?  Customers as opposed to users?  Mind numbing if this argument has been raging for 10 years through leadership changes. That really is spitting in the face of 98% of your users. 

[Tazzz 21]

52 minutes ago, DTLow said:

It's off topic but please explain why you think Notebooks are folders    '

Because they are. They look like folders, they act like folders, they are used like folders, almost all users see them as folders etc. If you'd replace the name Notebook/Stacks with Folder nobody would bat an eyelid. Because most users think the names Notebook/Stacks/Note are just a fancy and more appealing way of saying Folder/Sub-folder/Document, that goes well with the Evernote brand.

[tavor 668]

33 minutes ago, CalS said:

Of what has been the question.  All accounts?  Active accounts?  Customers as opposed to users?  Mind numbing if this argument has been raging for 10 years through leadership changes. That really is spitting in the face of 98% of your users. 

Right, we have no idea. Though I'm guessing monthly or weekly active users is the denominator. Not much point for EN to include people who aren't at least somewhat active.

As someone who has very few notebooks and relies more heavily on search and tagging, I'm disappointed that tag use hasn't really caught on with a larger segment of EN userbase. Most seem mired in the folder structure and the hierarchy it provides. I don't even rely on hierarchical tags that much. Don't have much interest in "browsing" my notes. I find what I need by search and related notes (e.g., notes related to a project) are located via tags.

All that said, if you have a large proportion of users preferring notebooks to tags, at some point, as a company, you have to yield, unless you think you can be the Apple that will eventually lead your stubborn users to the light.

Nested notebooks seem to be fairly common among other note apps. Joplin, which I'm test driving has infinitely (not that I've tested, but it's certainly at least 5 layers deep) nested notebooks. As the note app competition grows, you will have many note app users who are used to nested notebooks and will not consider EN as an option unless it has that feature. Of course we are a long way from there as EN is still the elephant(!) in the space, and gets new users from people new to the space, not from the competition.

[tavor 668]

9 minutes ago, Tazzz said:

Because they are. They look like folders, they act like folders, they are used like folders, almost all users see them as folders etc. If you'd replace the name Notebook/Stacks with Folder nobody would bat an eyelid. Because most users think the names Notebook/Stacks/Note are just a fancy and more appealing way of saying Folder/Sub-folder/Document, that goes well with the Evernote brand.

They also share a critical limitation of folders - a note can reside in only one folder. So yes, they are folders from the user perspective. 

[DTLow 5,736]

2 hours ago, tavor said:

I don't even rely on hierarchical tags that much.

I represent hierarchy by prefixing the name   
For example:      
     Budget    
     Budget-Computer     
     Budget-Computer-Software    
Works for both Notebooks and Tags

>>They also share a critical limitation of folders (Notebooks)

Agreed, it's a critical  limitation     
It's a different request but I support  multiple notebook assignments per note 

[CalS 5,280]

24 minutes ago, tavor said:

Right, we have no idea. Though I'm guessing monthly or weekly active users is the denominator. Not much point for EN to include people who aren't at least somewhat active.

You may give more credit than is due.  😇

Ditto on usage for me.  A tagger myself, five notebooks of record mostly due to backup and local (down to three if I were to move to V10).  I don’t care where it’s stored, I will simply search for it  

No horse in the race but I’d just as soon nested notebooks were added so as to have this debate disappear.  They aren’t included in the V10 rewrite which maybe says some serious back end plumbing to address?  Supposition on my part. 

[tavor 668]

1 hour ago, CalS said:

They aren’t included in the V10 rewrite which maybe says some serious back end plumbing to address?  Supposition on my part. 

That may be a good guess. If it was easy to do, seems like a no-brainer to include that early on in v10, as nested tags could have been held up as evidence of the unified codebase reaping rewards. And it surely would have neutered at least some of the furor that accompanied v10 release.

Instead, months after initial v10 release, we get a dashboard - a feature I don't recall seeing among the highly requested features such as nested tags, outline mode, etc.

[gazumped 11,667]

4 minutes ago, tavor said:

And it surely would have neutered at least some of the furor that accompanied v10 release.

I somehow doubt it - everyone who wanted a different feature would have complained that tag hierarchies got fixed first...  plus my furor was about Import Folders and backups/ the lack of a local database.

6 minutes ago, tavor said:

Instead, months after initial v10 release, we get a dashboard - a feature I don't recall seeing among the highly requested features such as nested tags, outline mode, etc.

Dashboards were all the rage a while back - Googling "how do i create a dashboard in Evernote" generates nearly 700,000 hits so I guess they may have thought it was a popular idea.  I use Filterize to build all sorts of dashboards,  so I pretty much don't care - but new users seem to think it's wonderful.

[CalS 5,280]

2 hours ago, tavor said:

Instead, months after initial v10 release, we get a dashboard - a feature I don't recall seeing among the highly requested features such as nested tags, outline mode, etc.

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

Dashboards were all the rage a while back - Googling "how do i create a dashboard in Evernote" generates nearly 700,000 hits so I guess they may have thought it was a popular idea.  I use Filterize to build all sorts of dashboards,  so I pretty much don't care - but new users seem to think it's wonderful.

They even had that contest of sorts some time back. 

I'm not sure dashboards are that important if you use EN as the engine for paperless and GTD , to me anyway.  Mostly when I go to EN I have something specific in mind to get done.  Not to navel gaze. 

1. Left panel closed provides two click access to tasks (some of which are simulated with an AHK combo so one click).
2. Shortcuts across the top provide quick access to repetitive dynamic sets of notes. 
3. The existing hotkeys and some roll your own facilitate search on the fly. 

So I guess the existing 6.25 interface is my dashboard.  But I am a Luddite for sure.

[gazumped 11,667]

6 minutes ago, CalS said:

But I am a Luddite for sure.

No comment...

I agree with you though on dashboards generally.  It's pretty to have a bunch of notes / reminders / recent searches etc all presented neatly in one interface.  But there are already requests to have more space for one or the other. 

I use dashboards as a convenient way to replace searches;  Filterize (forinstance) will show me a list of all notes with outstanding tasks due up to today.  There's another list of task due in the next 10 days,  and a mega list of everything else.  I have a 'home' dashboard with links to all of them (it doesn't show any note details) but if I want to make sure I'm up to date I can easily check my 'due today' dashboard,  and if that's clear I can check what's coming up.  I could do the same with saved searches,  but that takes time for each search to complete.  The dashboards are pre-filled pages,  so available immediately on any device.

It's a menu system - any I don't want to see all the content all the time: especially not on a phone screen.

[CalS 5,280]

2 minutes ago, gazumped said:

No comment...

I agree with you though on dashboards generally.  It's pretty to have a bunch of notes / reminders / recent searches etc all presented neatly in one interface.  But there are already requests to have more space for one or the other. 

I use dashboards as a convenient way to replace searches;  Filterize (forinstance) will show me a list of all notes with outstanding tasks due up to today.  There's another list of task due in the next 10 days,  and a mega list of everything else.  I have a 'home' dashboard with links to all of them (it doesn't show any note details) but if I want to make sure I'm up to date I can easily check my 'due today' dashboard,  and if that's clear I can check what's coming up.  I could do the same with saved searches,  but that takes time for each search to complete.  The dashboards are pre-filled pages,  so available immediately on any device.

It's a menu system - any I don't want to see all the content all the time: especially not on a phone screen.

10-4.  Rather than using TOC's I use the saved searches.  Three AHK hotkeys, Ctrl+1 2 3 for Today Late and Tomorrow.  Then clicking the magnifying glass for the less used.  In essence the note list created by the search becomes my TOC.  As we always say, horses for courses, whatever meets your eye the best.

[aldair.tinco@gmail.com 0]

vamos 2021  y este problema aun continua.... una lastima

[DTLow 5,736]

1 hour ago, mikefinleyco said:

Yes, it is quite productive to troll a thread for 10 years

No it's not - your reputation is whining posts
I prefer assisting users with my experience in using the Evernote product

[mikefinleyco 52]

On 8/17/2008 at 6:54 PM, engberg said:

We take every request in the forums as a feature request, yes.

Could you provide more information about how you see the difference? What is the task you want to accomplish with hierarchical notebooks that you can't do with hierarchical tags?

Huh?

[mikefinleyco 52]

On 1/29/2021 at 12:40 PM, DTLow said:

I prefer assisting users with my experience in using the Evernote product

UM, I lost count going through this post, I stopped counting at over 50 posts by yourself telling people to use tags... very helpful that advice right there. You're the #1 poster in this 10 year thread saying useless thing over and over again.

"Son, tell me how I could make things better for you at lunch time?"

"Well Dad we would really like to have some chocolate milk once in awhile"

DTlow  - "Well Son, white milk is just as good"

"Dad, why did you ask?"

DTlow - "Good question"

[Flier 19]

6 minutes ago, mikefinleyco said:

UM, I lost count going through this post, I stopped counting at over 50 posts by yourself telling people to use tags...

No need to worry about him.  I think he the basic three or four of his posts on speed dial.  (1) Although I don't know anything about your situation, I am sure that you do not need nested folders. (2) Here is an ugly and clumsy workaround for the lack of nested folders.   (3) .... and so on.

[PinkElephant 8,117]

Pretty senseless story. Chocolate is out ...

This means: The basic structure of EN is 1:n regarding the note-notebook relation, and n:m regarding the note:tag relation. This is basic stuff, right at the bottom of the database. If EN would try to change it, they would need to rewrite the complete app, both clients AND server code. Not change it here and there, rewrite it means from scratch.

After going through the v10-experience, I don‘t regard this as a good idea. No, IMHO it is a very bad idea. But you can open a new voting thread: After we went through v10, we urgently want v11 now, rewritten app and server, nested folders. Good luck with voting.

Chocolate is out ... better learn to live with milk. Or move on to another software with plush nesting in place.

[DTLow 5,736]

There is a feature request posted at the top of the discussion   
To indicate support, use the vote button     
Whining troll posts are not required

Background; For note organization, Evernote provides 2 metadata fields - Notebooks and Tags     
Tags are the primary organization tool
Notebooks can be organized in stacks (2 level)    
Tags can be organized in a parent-child hierarchy (unlimited levels)    

[Tazzz 21]

On 2/1/2021 at 11:18 PM, DTLow said:

Background; For note organization, Evernote provides 2 metadata fields - Notebooks and Tags     
Tags are the primary organization tool
Notebooks can be organized in stacks (2 level)    
Tags can be organized in a parent-child hierarchy (unlimited levels)    

Nobody uses tags. Notbooks are folders. Folders should be organized in unlimited levels. Thank you for being useless.

[PinkElephant 8,117]

@Tazzz Greetings from nobody:

Folders are one dimensional. You have a receipt - where do you put it ? "Receipts 2021", "Purchases Company XYZ", "Inventory MyGarden", "Warranty due 2023". Oh, you put it into all of them - creating duplicates. Or you decide for one main strategy ("By the year, always by the year"), and start searching in all other cases. Or you use your brain to remember where and why you filed it "there" (The brain is made to create information, not to hold it).

Nobody does it better: Use few notebooks, put tags on the note to make it easy to filter, rely on search to knock it down. With tags you can have hierarchy, but it does not need to be deep, because the combination creates the uniqueness - not the 27 levels of folder nesting.

But as you say: Since you don't know how to make use of it, it is useless (for you). Nobody says: You better go and use another tool, that is closer to your linear way of thinking. And now it is hard to discuss this with - nobody !

Cheerio ! 

[Tazzz 21]

1 minute ago, PinkElephant said:

@Tazzz Greetings from nobody:

Folders are one dimensional. You have a receipt - where do you put it ? "Receipts 2021", "Purchases Company XYZ", "Inventory MyGarden", "Warranty due 2023". Oh, you put it into all of them - creating duplicates. Or you decide for one main strategy ("By the year, always by the year"), and start searching in all other cases. Or you use your brain to remember where and why you filed it "there" (The brain is made to create information, not to hold it).

Nobody does it better: Use few notebooks, put tags on the note to make it easy to filter, rely on search to knock it down. With tags you can have hierarchy, but it does not need to be deep, because the combination creates the uniqueness - not the 27 levels of folder nesting.

But as you say: Since you don't know how to make use of it, it is useless (for you). Nobody says: You better go and use another tool, that is closer to your linear way of thinking. And now it is hard to discuss this with - nobody !

Cheerio ! 

If I have a receipt, I will put it in the folder Accounting > 2021 > January > Receipts. Then, if I think it is important to search for it at some point in the future (few receipts are), I will label it somehow ("receipt" "air conditioner"). Same thing you're doing, right? I'm not missing anything, right? Right?

But here's the kicker... also in the same Accounting > 2021 > January folder I will also add the folder Bank Statements. Also there, the folder Contracts. Also there, Other Documents. I will add all my January accounting files here, day by day. Then, sometime in February I will go into my Accounting folder, in the 2021 folder, and select the January folder, then with a few clicks I will send it to my accountant. Because all files are there, well organized and easy to find by anybody.

How are you hadling multiple documents all at once? How do you export / share / create .zip files etc for multiple files? How do you work with multiple cloud documents? Do you explain other people your tagging system in shared projects, and force it down their throat? Of course you do, otherwise you'd have thousand of files all stacked together with no sorting. Every little sh1tty file having 7+ tags just to be able to find it at some point in the future, even if you won't really need it.

Also, do you use tags for all the files in your computer? All documents, all movies, all presentations, all images, excels files etc.? Of course you do. I'm convinced you have everything in dropbox sorted by tags alone. Since folders are so one dimensional, and require such a liniar way of thinking, and you are obviously above all that, I am convinced you do.

[DTLow 5,736]

1 hour ago, Tazzz said:

If I have a receipt, I will put it in the folder Accounting > 2021 > January > Receipts

I scan receipts and store in Evernote    
Title: yyyy-mm-dd [description] keywords    
Tags: Type-Receipt, Budget-aaaaaa, Vendor-bbbbb, ...      

(note - no hierarchy/levels)

>>Then, sometime in February I will go into my Accounting folder, in the 2021 folder, and select the January folder, then with a few clicks I will send it to my accountant.

A simple search identifies the required receipts   
- by date   
- by budget   
No accountant but I generate monthly expense/budget reports
- ...

>>Also, do you use tags for all the files in your computer?

No, I only use tag organization for my notes/documents

[CalS 5,280]

21 minutes ago, Tazzz said:

How are you hadling multiple documents all at once? How do you export / share / create .zip files etc for multiple files?

Folders and tags are points of personal preference as has been painfully discussed in these forums.  Pluses and minuses abound.

As a tagger I have a set of tags for tax documents prefixed with 1040 and year tags in the form _2020, _2019, etc.  So a search of tag:1040* tag:_2020 yields all notes with pertinent tax data for 2020.  Ctrl+A the list, save attachments to a folder, zip and send.  Not particularly complex. 

Plus I add a tag for whatever entity sent the document.  So if I want to see all 1099-Int across time for BankX I do a tag:1040* tag:bankx search and there it is.  Notebooks are not quite so friendly in this search.  At best an intitle search of some sort is needed.  For sure, it's built for me, not someone else.  🤷‍♂️ 

For whatever reason I don't think hierarchically which helps.

[CyberHiker001 0]

On 8/17/2008 at 7:54 PM, engberg said:

We take every request in the forums as a feature request, yes.

Could you provide more information about how you see the difference? What is the task you want to accomplish with hierarchical notebooks that you can't do with hierarchical tags?

I would like to see some tag lists.

I can probably present at least five different classification systems, two that are probably unusable, and I can explain why; and then the other three, or so, I can describe how they might be useful for specific interests. Such as general knowledge, personal organization for the boring person, political news junkie, and social justice activism - BLM, WOKE, LGBTQRST.

Do you have any tag list that I might be able to start with, and maybe advance to a more sophisticated system as I improve in my note making? Will it make me smarter? Will it make children smarter?

You see, I think that such lists will help make people smarter, and I would think that EverNote thinks that way - how about you? Why else would be the purpose of EverNote and stacks . . .

Edited February 5, 2021 by CyberHiker001
grammar & further reasoning descriptions

[CyberHiker001 0]

On 8/17/2008 at 5:37 PM, engberg said:

We don't have sub-notebooks, but you can organize tags into a hierarchy. This may allow you to set up the organizational scheme you're looking for.

Can you direct us, humble junior notaphiles, to a list of tags as you describe them to be possible?

[gazumped 11,667]

1 minute ago, CyberHiker001 said:

You see, I think that such lists will help make people smarter - how about you?

Hi.  At this point you're responding to a 12-year old tweet from a guy who left the company about 8 years ago.

Evernote has quite a lot about note tagging - these two links may help...

• Organize with tags
• Tips for organizing notes, notebooks, and tags

[DTLow 5,736]

11 minutes ago, CyberHiker001 said:

Can you direct us, humble junior notaphiles, to a list of tags as you describe them to be possible?

Whatever classification system you use can be represented with either notebooks or tags.    
Tags have advantages: Multi assignment per note   
                                          100,000 max     
                                           Unlimited levels

An example from my list   
Note-Types, Type-Receipt, Type-Actionable, Type-...

[CyberHiker001 0]

35 minutes ago, DTLow said:

An example from my list   
Note-Types, Type-Receipt, Type-Actionable, Type-...

Okay. But I am probably going to need one of those tag maps that were prevalent in the 90's web sites - remember those? I had a journal application one time that made such maps from the words I used in my journal. I think that was good idea, but have not seen it elsewhere - I have never really been able to maintain a journal, so I do not know the apps. I have been wanting to try Evernote, but I didn't want to take the time to try and learn something new.

Edited February 5, 2021 by CyberHiker001
spelling correction

[PinkElephant 8,117]

You can go to the tag view - there you see how many uses a tag has. Visually not as nice as a word cloud, but has all the necessary information. From my experience tags should be reviewed from time to time, and weeded out.

Using the "tag word in title" method has the big disadvantage that there is no reliable process to keep the tag words on track. Tags are easier to keep structured, and EN supports it.

If for example I find I have created 2 tags for the same information, I can simply select the notes with the tag I want to remove, assign them all the tag that will stay, and then delete the wrong tag. Very simple on desktop, because I can work on multiple notes at once.

[Tazzz 21]

On 2/5/2021 at 2:15 AM, DTLow said:

I scan receipts and store in Evernote    
Title: yyyy-mm-dd [description] keywords    
Tags: Type-Receipt, Budget-aaaaaa, Vendor-bbbbb, ...      

(note - no hierarchy/levels)

>>Then, sometime in February I will go into my Accounting folder, in the 2021 folder, and select the January folder, then with a few clicks I will send it to my accountant.

A simple search identifies the required receipts   
- by date   
- by budget   
No accountant but I generate monthly expense/budget reports
- ...

>>Also, do you use tags for all the files in your computer?

No, I only use tag organization for my notes/documents

Awesome, so you can search receipts to identify them. Perfect. Great. Amazing.

Now tell me, how do you export multple receipts at once with tags? Tell me, if I have 50 receipts per day, how much time should I alocate and waste to add 10 tags and titles and keywords and descriptions to each receipt, so I can identify it a few weeks later? Then, tell me, how do I share multiple receipts from multiple tags at once? How do you do it, Mr. Productive? since tags are so much better, and you and Pinky are so much smarter then all of us here for using them, how do you use tags to work in teams, and with multiple notes/notebooks at once? If I have 500 files tagged book-research, then after a couple of years I'm working on my second book, and I want to change the tag to book-research-old, how do I edit that once for all the files, and not have to change it 500 times? Tell me, Mr. Productive. Or simply shut up, since you're comments are usless on this topic and have been useless for the last 10 years. Shut up and go organize your entire PC files by tags, to do what you preach.

 

[PinkElephant 8,117]

Maybe beyond your phantasy:

My scanner is set up with workflows. Each workflow has a notebook assigned, and a number of standard tags that make sense in relation to the workflow. Some tags (like the year) is changed once in a while, others stay.

When I scan a receipt, I only need to select the workflow (like business, private, investment). When the scan is complete, it runs the OCR, I select the workflow, this assigns the notebook and the tags automatically, the note is created, done.

80% of my scans happen through workflows, manual effort per scan zero. The 20% that do not fit a workflow are managed through the inbox process (GTD).

100% productive ? No, but 100% is a goal, not a status.

[DTLow 5,736]

15 hours ago, Tazzz said:

Now tell me, how do you export multple receipts at once with tags?

Search > right-click > export (html format)
If it's important to maintain notebook/tag, I do separate exports

>>Then, tell me, how do I share multiple receipts from multiple tags at once? 

For the sharing of mass notes, I use a notebook (Evernote Help - Share Notebooks)

>>and I want to change the tag to book-research-old, how do I edit that once for all the files, and not have to change it 500 times?

Evernote supports batch operation with notes
It's easy to change the notebook/tag for 500 notes 

[aukirk 368]

56 minutes ago, Tazzz said:

Tell me, Mr. Productive. Or simply shut up, since you're comments are usless on this topic and have been useless for the last 10 years. Shut up and go organize your entire PC files by tags, to do what you preach.

 

Wow... a little aggressive for a support forum.  I haven't followed this entire conversation (since Evernote forums are also not great at organizing a conversation since it doesn't default to sort by date), but I can't imagine anything on an internet form about a discussion on nesting notebooks that justifies this sort of behavior.

@Tazzz while you may not appreciate my input either (and I won't try to tell you tags are better than multiple levels of notebooks/folders)... the reality is that you aren't going to get more than Note/Notebooks/Stack any time soon from Evernote.  You can try to work around that with tags, but I agree they are a pain and require a lot of work to maintain.  However, if you feel so strongly about multiple folder levels, Evernote probably isn't the software for you.

I am not a programmer, but I imagine this is a much bigger problem than us users can appreciate.  The entire Evernote database is built around this limited hierarchy... if it were easy to fix, I imagine they would have added Folders years ago.  This doesn't seem likely to be a problem that will be solved by the move to a new common editor across platforms, but perhaps once all legacy apps are retired they can address this. (But I doubt it).

[Paul A. 623]

3 hours ago, aukirk said:

if it were easy to fix, I imagine they would have added Folders years ago.  This doesn't seem likely to be a problem that will be solved by the move to a new common editor across platforms, but perhaps once all legacy apps are retired they can address this.

I think nested notebooks is going to happen. There's plenty of demand for them, and Evernote has spent the last couple of years performing back-end changes in addition to the front-end software changes to allow them more flexibility to introduce features.

The CEO has also confessed to preferring notebooks over tags in interviews. I'm pretty confident it will happen eventually, but I wouldn't hazard a guess as to when. I think you make a great point about the legacy clients - they might need to be retired prior to introducing nested notebooks.

 

[PinkElephant 8,117]

We will see what happens.

IMHO they already messed around with the code enough for the next decade, so I am not really eager to live through another v10-release situation. At least not unless they really beefed up QA first !

[CalS 5,280]

7 hours ago, Tazzz said:

if I have 50 receipts per day, how much time should I alocate and waste to add 10 tags and titles and keywords and descriptions to each receipt, so I can identify it a few weeks later?

I tag with Receipt and _YYYY for example.  I don't change the title at all from the PDF created by ScanSnap.  If I want to find something I typically use tag:receipt searchtermofsomesort.  Batch saving attachments is simple to save whatever of the PDFs I want.

7 hours ago, Tazzz said:

If I have 500 files tagged book-research, then after a couple of years I'm working on my second book, and I want to change the tag to book-research-old, how do I edit that once for all the files, and not have to change it 500 times?

Right click on the tag in any of the notes and select rename.  Pretty simple.

[Tazzz 21]

On 2/6/2021 at 5:02 PM, aukirk said:

Wow... a little aggressive for a support forum.  I haven't followed this entire conversation (since Evernote forums are also not great at organizing a conversation since it doesn't default to sort by date), but I can't imagine anything on an internet form about a discussion on nesting notebooks that justifies this sort of behavior.

@Tazzz while you may not appreciate my input either (and I won't try to tell you tags are better than multiple levels of notebooks/folders)... the reality is that you aren't going to get more than Note/Notebooks/Stack any time soon from Evernote.  You can try to work around that with tags, but I agree they are a pain and require a lot of work to maintain.  However, if you feel so strongly about multiple folder levels, Evernote probably isn't the software for you.

It's not so much that I feel so strongly about multiple folders, but I do feel strongly about idiots wasting everyone's time. They are free to use the app as they please, nobody cares. But most users want this feature, statistics show this, the CEO of the company admits what they are saying is not the best solution, and here they are coming on a dedicated request threat to tell everybody they are wrong and they are using the app wrong, and patt themselves on the back for being smart and productive not needing it. Imagine being a person doing this for 10+ years, writing probably hundred of posts about this. Funny thing is even if Evernote implements this change, it means absolutely nothing to them, because they can still use it in their way. Waste of air.

[Tazzz 21]

On 2/6/2021 at 4:58 PM, DTLow said:

Search > right-click > export (html format)
If it's important to maintain notebook/tag, I do separate exports

>>Then, tell me, how do I share multiple receipts from multiple tags at once? 

For the sharing of mass notes, I use a notebook (Evernote Help - Share Notebooks)

Wait, did you just admit you're not using tags, but use notebooks instead? But why aren't you sharing by tags, Mr. Productive, since they are so much better?

[DTLow 5,736]

9 minutes ago, Tazzz said:

Wait, did you just admit you're not using tags, but use notebooks instead? But why aren't you sharing by tags, Mr. Productive, since they are so much better?

I use tags for note organization
I use notebooks to identify notes as   
- online/local  
- private/shared      
- offline   
- inbox (default)

[Tazzz 21]

On 2/7/2021 at 12:06 AM, CalS said:

I tag with Receipt and _YYYY for example.  I don't change the title at all from the PDF created by ScanSnap.  If I want to find something I typically use tag:receipt searchtermofsomesort.  Batch saving attachments is simple to save whatever of the PDFs I want.

Right click on the tag in any of the notes and select rename.  Pretty simple.

 

I don't have either the time or patience to waste time renaming, tagging each note/receipt/whatever. This solution is also very limiting.

Thanks for showing me how to rename a tag though. Not very useful since I don't use tags that much, but it's good to know nevertheless.

[Tazzz 21]

1 minute ago, DTLow said:

I use tags for organization of notes
I use notebooks to identify notes as online/local, private/shared, offline, and inbox (default)

And how exactly do you use notebooks to share mass notes, considering your notes are not organized by notebooks?

 

[DTLow 5,736]

28 minutes ago, Tazzz said:

And how exactly do you use notebooks to share mass notes, considering your notes are not organized by notebooks?

Using the Notebook page, I create a shared notebook
The screenshot is a sample for the Development Team
At the bottom, I add team members

We have various project underway (identified by tag:Project-aaaaaa)
A simple search lists all the notes for the project
For notes to be shared, I assign them to this notebook
The tags get shared along with the notes; hierarchy does is not shared

[tavor 668]

On 2/6/2021 at 1:18 PM, Paul A. said:

I think nested notebooks is going to happen.

For sure. I don't use notebooks for subject matter categorization (only for access categorization, similar to what @DTLowdoes), so nested notebooks are irrelevant for me, but the writing is on the wall. The vast majority of users want nested notebooks and per no less an authority than the CEO, only a small minority of users use tags. Also, I'm not aware of any serious note app competitors that do not have nested notebooks.

The green elephant may not live to 100, but it will not die on the tag evangelization hill. 

[CalS 5,280]

19 minutes ago, Tazzz said:

 

I don't have either the time or patience to waste time renaming, tagging each note/receipt/whatever. This solution is also very limiting.

Thanks for showing me how to rename a tag though. Not very useful since I don't use tags that much, but it's good to know nevertheless.

I batch scan and tag receipts and plunk them into a Receipt notebook.  I don't rename them.  Takes very little time.  Not exactly sure what is limiting about it.  I well know what works well for me may not work for all.  You asked though.,

Not sure how denigrating other's work flows does much to support your use case.  The point of fact is EN has not been inclined to incorporate nested notebooks since forever.  No matter the teeth gnashing.  I adapted.

[tavor 668]

8 minutes ago, CalS said:

Not sure how denigrating other's work flows does much to support your use case.  The point of fact is EN has not been inclined to incorporate nested notebooks since forever.  No matter the teeth gnashing.  I adapted.

I think his/her point is what is the point of tag users constantly chiming in on this request thread to essentially preach tagging? If they wanted advice on how to use tags to organize notes, they would ask for it. But this is a feature request thread, not a "school me on tagging" thread. You, @DTLow, myself and some other long term Evernote users don't care about nested notebooks, but what is very clear to me is that we are in a tiny minority. The people want nested notebooks and this thread is their place to express that desire to EN. I think we should let them do so without trying to be overly helpful when our help isn't being requested.