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cswsteve

Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks

Idea

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Well, the only way to do what I want was to emulate folders using tags... and nope.. not doing it.

1 hour ago, raphaelaguiar said:

Yeah I strongly suggest you to give a look into Notion.so. 

*maybe this is a coincidence (or I guess Notion is just becoming real stronger), but all of this situation made me want to check others softwares and Notion really got my attention! (the only one thou) 

34 minutes ago, raphaelaguiar said:

Yes. You can nest pages any depth you want.

You end up building your personal wiki. A website built in the way your mind works.

So true!
Since yesterday I'm really digging it, AND A LOT.  I don't know if it suit everybody, but for me: That's pretty much it!
Notion is also like evernote and tellus combined. To have some boards/dynamic-tables here and there, to have really nice easy layouts and infinite folders/subfolders is just what I want.
I'm considering leaving evernote for good. *I kinda already started to move on tbh... but I'm not gonna hurry. Let's see what these firsts days will be like.

 

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I also wish if there were such a mechanism to nest notebook. This mechanism is used by Atlassian Confluence and is extremely popular. So I request EN devs to prioritise this feature if they can.

Thanks

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16 hours ago, Vitor Arantes said:

It would be awesome to have a stack in a stack.

Stacks aren't an entity, just a notebook grouping; you should join the notebook hierarchy discussion.

In the meantime, Tags have an unlimited hierarchy.

 

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I've enjoyed using Evernote but I'm a really organized person and it's been hard to do so with the current capability that Evernote offers. Currently you can have one level of stacked notebooks but you can't keep adding other levels. For example I can create a notebook named education and stack notebooks:

  • Education
    • College
    • Education Program 1
    • Education Program 2

That's what you can currently do but I need to be able to expand on that.

  • Education
    • College
      • Fall Semester
        • MAT 110
          • Week 1
          • Week 2
        • ENG 201
        • PS 101
        • ART 101
    • Education Program 1
      • Laws
        • Laws A
        • Laws B
      • Contracts
        • Bi-Lateral

To have the ability to create notebooks (not just notes) within a notebook then one truly has the ability to organize their notes however better suites them to find information they're taken down. This feature will greatly improve Evernote and customer satisfaction.

 

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7 hours ago, AG1524 said:

I've enjoyed using Evernote but I'm a really organized person and it's been hard to do so with the current capability that Evernote offers.

Evernote supports two note fields for note organization; Notebooks and Tags752700305_ScreenShot2019-05-09at21_39_15.png.c6c25ec4468da6a1187c597fabada8ca.png

Notebook/Tag trees can be displayed in the sidebar on the windows/mac platforms

Notebooks are limited to two levels, but Tags have an unlimited hierarchy; your sample hierarchy can be stored.

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7 hours ago, mastix said:

Nesting, Nesting, Nesting ..... Why is it so difficult to implement this feature 

1298148589_ScreenShot2019-05-12at10_08_48.png.8ba2aa32e8d9aea11044383b002f53ee.png"Nesting" is a useful feature
I have no preference to naming; Labels/Folders/Notebooks/Tags works for me.

Evernote implemented "nesting" long ago; unlimited levels.
Check out the Tags feature.

>> people want a more visual approach

The screenshot is from my Mac and shows the Tag Tree in the sidebar

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Yes Nesting is possible but only 2 levels deep and the appearance of my left bar is after many years very looong now why because I can only create 2 levels deep. I dont see those "unlimited levels" unless there is some hidden feature you have to activate and I am not aware of.

The Tag Tree is precisely what I am talking about....not very visual I would say , a list of text.........when that list is long it is really easy to get lost. The saying an image is worth........ is more alive than ever but somehow Evernote sadly is not evolving in this direction.

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23 minutes ago, mastix said:

Why is it so difficult to implement this feature when so many people ask for it. 2 levels is just NOT enough.

A prior post indicated that it may be a current architecture limitation.  A more recent post indicates they may be rethinking this.  No idea if we will ever see a change, but until then, many use tags as a work around.

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18 minutes ago, mastix said:

The Tag Tree is precisely what I am talking about....not very visual I would say

Do you have a better visual presentation?  I've been looking at mind mapping.

Also,  I find Evernote's "nesting" is limiting; single parents.  I prefer relational; multiple parents.

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Yes i use tags and it is great to search for notes but sometimes I don't have a clear idea what  I am searching for and having some notes in particular folders makes me remember a piece of information I would have been forgotten. Tags is many times very useful but not always. Also seeing all notes inside a folder gives you a perfect view of the dimension of it. 

Sometimes you forget to tag but having a piece of info inside a parent folder is an invaluable safe system so that the it does not get lost in chaos.....

if 2 levels have been possible don't see why 5,6 or 100 are not possible. It is really weird that they cannot give this demanded option to their users. 

I love all the capture options of Evernote , the simplicity to use, to share, to tag ,etc but this limitations is really frustrating me on an on.....

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6 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Do you have a better visual presentation?  I've been looking at mind mapping.

I also find Evernote's "nesting" is limiting; single parents.  I prefer relational; multiple parents.

I think that a adding an image or icon to the left list would make locating what you are looking for much faster that text.

Yes multiple parents is what I use as a workaround to the two level limit, no other way out. I get that some people might like the option to multiple parents but there is a huge number (me included) that prefer 1 parent with multiple levels inside, it cannot be so difficult to give their users the freedom to choose what is the more comfortable way to organize your info. The brain of every person likes to structure things in a particular way and I think over the years the scream to multiple nesting levels has grown louder and louder. But still here we are.....

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On 5/12/2019 at 6:39 PM, mastix said:

it cannot be so difficult to give their users the freedom to choose what is the more comfortable way to organize your info. The brain of every person likes to structure things in a particular way and I think over the years the scream to multiple nesting levels has grown louder and louder. But still here we are.....

I find it pretty comfortable to tag my notes rather than 'filing' them into a hierarchy - and my brain certainly isn't 'screaming' anything about multiple nesting levels.  Evernote is aware that some users would like to have nested folders, and -maybe- at some stage it will implement this.  Meantime what you have here is a hammer.  If you wish to drive screws,  please choose a different tool.

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2 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Meantime what you have here is a hammer.  If you wish to drive screws,  please choose a different tool.

Or switch from screws to nails. 😋

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17 hours ago, gazumped said:

If you wish to drive screws,  please choose a different tool.

Oh, you surely can drive screws with a hammer. Not recommended, but at least possible. This, I suppose, is roughly analogous  to using tags to structure your notes hierarchically (you can do it, but tag names must be unique, which is an awkwardness not found in file systems)

But good luck trying to drive a nail with a screwdriver...Which, I also suppose, is akin to trying to emulate tags using a hierarchical folder system...

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19 hours ago, gazumped said:

If you wish to drive screws,  please choose a different tool.

s12s.jpg.74eee6651742b4eeb9b7b9564fa906a2.jpg

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Hmmn.  Lessons to live by.  Give a someone a straight answer,  and they know where they stand.  Give some people an aphorism and they'll milk it for ever.  Apologies for apparently disrupting this thread with the funny section...   <_<

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Where do we vote on this?

And what is a good alternative to Evernote that DOES allow a decent / additional levels directory hierarchy.

+1 level would be great. +2 levels would be awesome! No change = look for an alternative as it's becoming a pain in the derriere. 

Cheers,

Iain

 

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11 hours ago, IainBev said:

Where do we vote on this?

And what is a good alternative to Evernote that DOES allow a decent / additional levels directory hierarchy.

+1 level would be great. +2 levels would be awesome! No change = look for an alternative as it's becoming a pain in the derriere. 

Cheers,

Iain

 

Hi.  At the very top left of this page you should see a number:  currently 350 for me.  Click the up-arrow above it to add your vote.  Evernote has been sharing videos of changes in progress to the various clients*,  so you may get lucky soon.  Meantime if you really want to switch,  Notion or OneNote seem to be the options of choice. 

* See >

 

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11 hours ago, IainBev said:

And what is a good alternative to Evernote that DOES allow a decent / additional levels directory hierarchy.

Mac/Windows OS allow unlimited levels of directory hierarchy. 

Personally I stick with Evernote, and use the Tags field for unlimited hierarchy

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11 hours ago, IainBev said:

And what is a good alternative to Evernote that DOES allow a decent / additional levels directory hierarchy.

Ask the Internet for Evernote alternatives. All have different approaches/architectures; only you can tell which ones suit you.

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11 hours ago, IainBev said:

Where do we vote on this?

And what is a good alternative to Evernote that DOES allow a decent / additional levels directory hierarchy.

+1 level would be great. +2 levels would be awesome! No change = look for an alternative as it's becoming a pain in the derriere. 

Cheers,

Iain

 

I had to move to Nimbus Note to get this feature, its an evernote clone built purely based on user feedback and feature requests, wish evernote was built the same way 😞

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If you are happy with Nimbus, you did the right thing for yourself.

The organisation concept of EN is to build the logical structure of the notes with tags. The result is not a tree, but a net, which is way more flexible, linking notes of all types together, with multiple links. Finding information is driven by search.

But a I say: If you want to create a one-way, tree type structure in which you force your information, go to another place (or create it by nested tags in EN, which is easily possible- but does not unlock the real power behind tags).

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Thanks to all who responded to me questions.

What the EV team and PinkElephant fail to grasp is that when you are moving quickly you want to grab something and drop it somewhere logical. 

e.g. Work / Energy / Storage / Flow

or. Work / Clients / Company Name / research topic 

I (and it seems many others) do not want to take time to add tags - we want to file it logically and go.

This is an extremely familiar process to most - why try and force them to do things another way? I don't get it. 

Also... I have a lot of existing notebooks - so something of a task to re-visit and tag them all. No time for that.

Please explain WHY Evernote cant / refuse to make this simple development?

Looking into alternatives now - voting with wallet. Nimbus sounds good. 

Shame - I like Evernote - but it's limitations in this regard are becoming a pain in the derriere - and the developers point blank refusal to address this with anything other than 'use tags' is starting to irk. 

Best regards,

Iain

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Each one has it's own approach - this said before saying other things.

A technical issue first: The EN database is build in a way that enforces each note to be in one and only one notebook. To change this would mean to rewrite the whole thing, set up a new server structure, migrate all user databases (local and central) etc. Tags are already set up in the way you find it, with complete flexibility. So if you feel you must create a deep, treetype notebook structure and file away into this, you should probably move somewhere else. 

Now why this is not necessary, if you look a little bit deeper into ways to organize information:

Notebooks in EN have very limited logical function. They are more like a large container than a filigreed filing structure. They are used to control things like being shared, being local, being offline etc. And you can control search easily, by first selecting a notebook and then entering a search string, or search for a tag in the selected notebook only.

Tags are used to make searching easier, and to give a logical structure. This structure is not tree-type, it is a net. 

  • If you search for "2018", you will find everything tagged 2018
  • If you search "invoices", you will find all docs tagged invoices
  • If you search for both, you will find all invoices from 2018.
  • If you want to search for all invoices from 2015 to 2018 containing the ZIP-Code 12345, it is easy to do this as well (ZIP as text search)

If you set up a tree structure (nested folders / notebooks), one of the 2 initial searches above is easy, the other is not. The combined search maybe is easy, for example if you file 1st "Invoices", and below this "Years". It is hard if your tree is "Invoices" - "Suppliers by Name", or other.

With tags, it is always easy. And you can search for initially unrelated tags as well, the search will create the relation.

Tagging is an effort if you have a lot of notebooks. First you have to think about the right notebook, then about the tags. It is no effort if you have few notebooks, and do the main filing work by tagging. Tagging is easy, because you do not have to decide about "Putting it here, putting it there" - just apply all tag wanted, and be done. And tags make it easy to avoid duplicates, because you do not need duplicates. Adding a new tag creates a duplicate by logic, while still needing just one note.

Probably you do not want to make the step, because you have invested a lot into your notebook structure. I have been there some time ago as well. Then I realized that this is not the best way to set it up, it was just like that because I came from the traditional folder-tree Windows forces on us.

In fact it is pretty easy to reorganize: Use one of the desktop clients (Win or Mac). First select all notes in one notebook, and mass-apply the notebook-name as a tag. Or apply 2 or more tags, that combined make up the notebook name. Then move all the notes into the new "container-type" notebook. Even with a lot of notebooks and notes, this can be done with little time spend to reorganize. You will find everything you had in the notebooks structure now in the tag list. The tags can be nested (however it will not show on the mobile clients yet, EN is working on this).

This is the way I would set it up, and have done so for my data. Do what you think is right for you, but do not expect software that was designed differently to follow this. As I say - maybe switch to another tool.

 

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2 hours ago, IainBev said:

I (and it seems many others) ...

I (and it seems many others) do not want to take time to file in folders/subfolder/subfolder/... - we want to file it and go

>>Companies who don't listen to their users [ or worse... lecture them! ] are unlikely to do well.

Evernote has over 200 million user accounts

Have you heard the story about Henry Ford not listening to his clients - they wanted faster horses

>>Looking into alternatives now

Good plan.  In fact, if you need folders why did you chose the Evernote product in the first place

It's like a person choosing a hammer and complaining how terrible it is with screws
Use a screwdriver

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23 minutes ago, IainBev said:

Companies who don't listen to their users [ or worse... lecture them! ] are unlikely to do well.

You should bear in mind that people like @PinkElephant, @DTLow, and myself are not Evernote employees, nor are we compensated for being present in the forums. We're just Evernote users with opinions, like everyone else. Evernote employees are clearly marked as such, and do not lecture their users. They may in fact, sympathize with their users on many issues, but large architectural changes are not taken lightly, and Evernote has not chosen to take this particular direction. Despite that, Evernote is, by a number of measures, "doing well", no matter how unlikely that may seem. That being said, there are any number of competing products out there that may suit your needs better. If Nimbus Note, Notion, Bear, etc. turns out to be the one for you, nobody here would feel bad about it. We all deserve tools that work well for what we need; Evernote fills that bill for a lot of people, but it's not the only tool in the world.

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47 minutes ago, IainBev said:

Companies who don't listen to their users [ or worse... lecture them! ] are unlikely to do well. 

I use one more step with email and it works well for me - finding anything is easy. You can order by date. Outlook lets us search any search string for any directory tree [your Zip Code example].

I learned a long time ago that if you give the  same task/objective to different talented people thy often approach it differently. Even their use of software and tool preference is likely different. There is no right way, and rarely an 'only way'. Flexibility empowers people.

So many of your users have explained this, endlessly. Clearly you are not listening. 

You should be enabling users, not lecturing them.

Your approach however is to say … actually, doing that our side is hard - so you all adapt your working habits to us. 

Poorly done Pink Elephant. 

@IainBev Just one comment: Not reflecting the respect I showed to your posting.

And a German proverb, about EN listening or not: „Everybodies darling is everybodies fool“.

Have a nice day !

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On 12/27/2012 at 4:13 PM, jefito said:

Nobody said that it isn't a legitimate action. However, you need to be prepared for it to take some time before they deliver such a feature (and they may never do so), and put up with a product that doesn't do what you want in the meantime. So in the here and now, you pretty much have only two practical choices.

Yeah, that's a super useful mentality. 🙄

Plus 3,030,301 for nesting, the entire world revolves around nested file systems and evernote just ignores it. Will not cry but say I told you so when this company eventually goes BK and people 10 years later reminisce  about "do you remember that program evernote? yeah, I do, was pretty good, but man they were ridiculous about lacking simple features like nested file structures, whatever happened to them?"

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On 2/20/2018 at 6:58 PM, DTLow said:

 

A work-around is to use a standard naming convention; for example

  • Novel
  • Novel - Characters
  • Novel - Characters - David
  • Novel - Characters - Sarah
  • Novel - Theme

Yep like it's 1997 again. 

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1 hour ago, mikefinleyco said:

Will not cry but say I told you so when this company eventually goes BK and people 10 years later reminisce  about "do you remember that program evernote? yeah, I do, was pretty good, but man they were ridiculous about lacking simple features like nested file structures, whatever happened to them?"

Uh-huh, sure. People have been saying this sort of thing for the 10 years this request has been around.

1 hour ago, mikefinleyco said:

Yeah, that's a super useful mentality. 🙄

It's a perfectly good and useful mentality, as it relates to practicality. If the tool you have doesn't do what you want/need it to do, then you should seek another tool, rather than wait around for it to magically grow the capability you require.

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16 hours ago, mikefinleyco said:

the entire world revolves around nested file systems and ...

Evernote revolves around notes and notebook/tags fields in the note metadata

It works for me for the past 10 years

edit: Of course I'm an Evernote fan.  If not, I would be using a different service

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4 minutes ago, jefito said:

Uh-huh, sure. People have been saying this sort of thing for the 10 years this request has been around.

It's a perfectly good and useful mentality, as it relates to practicality. If the tool you have doesn't do what you want/need it to do, then you should seek another tool, rather than wait around for it to magically grow the capability you require.

Was actually hoping for some replies by real people, not fan boys. Everybody already knows what your replies are going to be before you type them...

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47 minutes ago, mikefinleyco said:

Was actually hoping for some replies by real people, not fan boys. Everybody already knows what your replies are going to be before you type them...

<Sigh> So.  Evernote Forum 101:  Evernote (whom I assume you mean by "real people") tend not to respond to individual queries here in this User Forum,  so what you tend to get is responses from actual current users who are using Evernote despite the crippling restriction of a couple of levels of nested folder.  We don't actually find that is a major handicap.  If you do find that this app doesn't do what you need it to do,  maybe you should be looking somewhere else?

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2 hours ago, mikefinleyco said:

Was actually hoping for some replies by real people, not fan boys. Everybody already knows what your replies are going to be before you type them...

800658613_download2.jpg.1b52b0d658817d6332dc6034c3e71a5a.jpg

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2 hours ago, mikefinleyco said:

Was actually hoping for some replies by real people, not fan boys. Everybody already knows what your replies are going to be before you type them...

Ooh, you went there, and pulled out the "fan-boy" blah-blah. Yawn.

Anyways, you really are getting real answers from real people who just happened to have used Evernote for a long time, and have found it works for us. The approach I laid out (use a tool for what it's good for) applies to many other things than Evernote; it's actually good advice. As it happens, Evernote works well for me, and I've never spent a second wishing for nested notebooks. But other folks have, and have validly asked for them; it's all understandable, and if they're not getting it here, there is a horde of other alternatives that may work better for them. It's no skin off my nose: they *should* use tools that work for them. More power to them.

And hey, I make suggestions, too,  which haven't been implemented, and I haven't found that it bothered me all that much. The reasons that Evernote appealed to me are still valid.

For other real people who have actual problems with using Evernote, the so-called "fan-boys" are around to help them out, so I'll leave things at that. 

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2 hours ago, mikefinleyco said:

Was actually hoping for some replies by real people, not fan boys. Everybody already knows what your replies are going to be before you type them...

Unfortunately all you get in this forum are fan boys, they are right we are wrong, thats Evernote in a nutshell. I left en for nimbus note a long while ago but unfortunately still have to use en for all my scanned documents. Trust me its not worth wasting your breath here, no one at en cares...

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10 hours ago, x9sim9 said:

no one at en cares...

It's worth noting that this being a -mainly- user-supported forum,  none of us "fan boys" are actually 'at' Evernote,  and subscribers can always use the Support system to contact Evernote directly with feedback and chat,  if necessary with support staff to get their point,  or requests across....

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15 hours ago, gazumped said:

<Sigh> So.  Evernote Forum 101:  Evernote (whom I assume you mean by "real people") tend not to respond to individual queries here in this User Forum,  so what you tend to get is responses from actual current users who are using Evernote despite the crippling restriction of a couple of levels of nested folder.  We don't actually find that is a major handicap.  If you do find that this app doesn't do what you need it to do,  maybe you should be looking somewhere else?

What a brilliant response. Why do you even reply? This thread and forum is about improving moving forward not jerks running users off with "maybe you should be looking somewhere else". When you run out of intelligent responses that add to the solution you can just not reply and move on because "if it's not for you..." is about as juvenile a response as you can make, it demonstrates you're out of ideas to contribute so do us all a favor and don't troll treads where people are looking for positive change with your negative infantile responses that you've made 200 times before, its boring.

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12 hours ago, mikefinleyco said:

This thread and forum is about improving moving forward

That's BS
This thread has degenerated into users posting BOOHOO, Evernote's so bad

>>If it is why does it bother you? 

This clutters up my use of the forum; learning to better use the Evernote product, and to help other users

>>How about the ultimate uncluttering for you, ignore this thread.

I participate in all the discussions.  It's an opportunity to learn, and assist users.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story. 
Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.

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1 minute ago, DTLow said:

That's BS
This thread is users posting BOOHOO, Evernote's so bad

If it is why does it bother you? Bit too much fanboy? What do you care if it is or isn't? You're the self-appointed protector of evernote?

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9 minutes ago, mikefinleyco said:

What a brilliant response. Why do you even reply? This thread and forum is about improving moving forward not jerks running users off with "maybe you should be looking somewhere else". When you run out of intelligent responses that add to the solution you can just not reply and move on because "if it's not for you..." is about as juvenile a response as you can make, it demonstrates you're out of ideas to contribute so do us all a favor and don't troll treads where people are looking for positive change with your negative infantile responses that you've made 200 times before, its boring.

ditto for you.

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1 hour ago, mikefinleyco said:

This thread and forum is about improving moving forward not jerks running users off with "maybe you should be looking somewhere else". When you run out of intelligent responses that add to the solution you can just not reply and move on

Moving on is certainly an option, as is putting particular members on 'ignore', which is what I'll be doing for your benefit shortly. For the benefit of the forums, though, you should remember that personal insults and name-calling are expressly forbidden, per the Forum Code of Conduct,  #1. Whatever you may think of me or other folks here personally, you should probably keep out of the forums. And you you may not believe this, I really do hope that Evernote finds a way to please you. Meantime, I'll head back to trying to help other users where I can. Good luck.

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1 hour ago, IainBev said:

and the way I have ALWAYS worked is to drop something into the relevant 'directory'.

You can emulate directories using the notebook/tag trees in the sidebar1624580387_ScreenShot2019-08-05at10_20_49.png.3cca343beb4dd72a2d4663813fcd9932.png

>>One additional level would be great - two would be fantastic.

As you pointed out, notebooks are currently limited to two levels.  
There's a request at the top for additional  levels.  To add your support, use the vote button at the top left corner of the discussion

My request would be for unlimited levels

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6 minutes ago, IainBev said:

The general consensus of the thread

It's not that anyone here has some kind of vested interest in pushing Tags - the fact is we're all users,  and no-one has any idea of when or whether Evernote will increase the number of levels available.  In the meantime the fact of the matter is that users can either work within the limits of Evernote's existing features,  or look somewhere else to find an app that does fill their need.  My basic principal is always - any method you choose is great if it works for you.  The 'consensus' here is a matter of plain fact - Evernote doesn't 'do' hierarchies - yet.  Maybe they will,  but the company doesn't usually give out their plans in advance!

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1 hour ago, IainBev said:

I had hoped that over those years Evernote might have effected this change [for people who don't use tags] but the repeated mantra of 'use tags to do it'  is, as may on here have commented, becoming somewhat tiresome

We tend to repeat certain types the advice because:

  1. Nested notebooks do not exist in Evernote currently: Tags and stacks/notebooks (and Spaces in the business product) are all of the facilities that Evernote has to organize user notes. It would be exceedingly dumb and useless to suggest that someone should use facilities that don't exist.
  2. It's a long thread, and not everyone takes the time to read all -- or even much -- of it.
  3. Some Evernote users don't know that tags can be nested, and can be used in a file system-y way to organize and navigate their notes. Yes, at least in in the Windows application, I can just drop a note on a tag (a facility that should exist in all Evernote platforms).
  4. Giving that advice in no way lessens the effect of other Evernote users' advocacy for nested notebooks. It doesn't lessen the vote total since there's no downvoting (and I'd guess that more than one person who gives out the "try tags" advice has also upvoted the request), nor does it make Evernote forget that there's a demand for them. 
  5. We cannot change Evernote ourselves and have no influence over Evernote's direction than any other user here; the best we can do is to get other users to use Evernote -- as it exists --  better.

So sorry that it's tiresome to you., but it's all just practical advice, and in no way is it meant to rain on your day; in fact, it's not intended for you, since you've already concluded that tags don't work for you.

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6 hours ago, jefito said:

 putting particular members on 'ignore', which is what I'll be doing for your benefit shortly.

Thank you very much, couldn't ask for a better outcome. One less person endlessly replying to new users voicing their desire to have nested notebooks, with the same thing over and over again.

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8 hours ago, DTLow said:

That's BS
This thread has degenerated into users posting BOOHOO, Evernote's so bad

>>If it is why does it bother you? 

This clutters up my use of the forum; learning to better use the Evernote product, and to help other users

 

Are you serious? How about the ultimate uncluttering for you, ignore this thread. It's 1400 posts about the same thing, what exactly is your reason for ever looking at it? 

If it clutters your day, simply don't open it. Believe me nobody is going to miss you cutting and pasting the same replies to every new user which is -"use tags, go use something else..."

You ignore this thread, your life becomes less cluttered, everybody is saved from yet another canned reply. Win/Win/Win

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I have complex projects with multiple layers of subtasks and categories. Please can we have the ability to stack deeper than 2 levels. I would really like subfolder capability.

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Just like the file system, the notebook in most case will have nested tree structure. 

Only having one level of notebook doesn't seem to be efficient for complicated noting process. 

New features like creating folder inside the notebook will be a great add-in to the notebook. 

 

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On 8/18/2008 at 2:37 AM, engberg said:

We don't have sub-notebooks, but you can organize tags into a hierarchy. This may allow you to set up the organizational scheme you're looking for.

Hi Engberg!
Tags are great, but the are bit different:

1. Notebooks/folders are much more familiar for all the desktop computer users, because we all know folders and subfolders well. So multilevel notebooks hierarchy is kind of "essential" notes organazing.

2. If I am within a notebook, creating a new note will assign it to this notebook with no any extra actions. With tags, I shoud not forget to assign tag to the note to find it later.

P.S. BTW, is there an option to find "all notes without any tags" or "all notes without a specific tag"? This is to find such "forgotten notes" from (2)

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On 8/30/2019 at 4:42 AM, gazumped said:

BTW, is there an option to find "all notes without any tags" or "all notes without a specific tag"? This is to find such "forgotten notes" from (2)

Search   -tag:*      to find notes with no tags

For "forgotten notes" with missing notebook assignment, I search    notebook:Inbox    (my  default notebook)

>>Notebooks/folders are much more familiar for all the desktop computer users

From desktop computer use, I'm familiar with "folder" ; not notebook

Regardless of the name folder/notebook/tag, I'm able to work with  the product

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3 hours ago, srideou said:

The two main reasons why I am currently looking to replace EV with another solution are:
1. Their refusal to take on this very popular and very longstanding sub-stacks request—or at least admit that they can't do so (if that's the case) rather than try to pretend it isn't a desirable feature.
2. Their automatic, irreversible and non-refundable subscription renewals, which may be legal but which nevertheless create a sketchy and exploitative vibe. It's not that I would have said "no" so far if they'd asked me to renew—it's just that I would have liked to have been asked.

Hi.  Please read the thread for details,  but 

  1. Evernote have said that implementing a notebook hierarchy is not within the scope of the current architecture of the database,  but they are in process of changing that.  Given that 250M people will be unhappy if anything breaks,  they're probably taking some care not to mess that up.
  2. If you decide at any stage not to renew your subscription you are completely in charge of upgrading,  downgrading or cancelling at any time.  Go to https://www.evernote.com/Settings.action and choose "manage subscription" .  Evernote do not 'ask' every subscriber whether they wish to renew - at least partly because even the lesser (than 250M) number of actual subscribers would require some millions of emails to be sent each year - around 50,000 per day.  If they were expected to deal with queries arising from that volume of customer contact,  there wouldn't be time to do anything else - like redesign that hierarchy...

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4 hours ago, srideou said:

this very popular and very longstanding sub-stacks request

This request is for nested notebooks (sub-notebooks), not sub-stacks.

Sub-Stacks would be a problem because there's no actual stack object

>>or at least admit that they can't do so (if that's the case)

Evernote has demonstrated hierarchy implementation with the Tags feature. It's actually a simple database change, but the UI requires extensive work

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It would be outstanding if I could add a third-level stack organization in my Evernote Premium notebook organization. My specific use case is for independent information for files related to each project, and business process without getting too detailed. I'm certain this would be popular as more organization offers more productivity. 

Currently I can only create a notebook and drag it into another notebook, so perhaps this feature request is for stacks within stacks. 

Thanks

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On 9/6/2019 at 2:24 PM, Avi Lambert said:

My specific use case is for independent information for files related to each project 

Edit: Someone has merged the stacks discussion with the notebook discussion

I use tags to identify notes related to each project1106376030_ScreenShot2019-09-06at14_58_37.png.8b8954e6728d50d8a08595622ad6d56a.png

 

>>I'm certain this would be popular as more organization offers more productivity. 

Tags offer unlimited levels.

They are the primary Evernote tool for organization

 

>>this feature request is for stacks within stacks.

This is difficult to do because there is no actual stack object.

A more reasonable request is for hierarchy to be added to the notebook object.  This has been requested in the discussion linked below

 

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Thanks, Steve, I noticed the other post and saw the depth of posts on it. Apologies for the duplication. Regarding tags, that's not a good use case from my perspective for what I'm using. I used tags before, and it became far too complex and overly un-organized. 

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Hi Engberg, thanks for your feedback. But again, the use-case I am looking for simply does not work for tags.

Tags are not Notebooks.

Notebooks work much better for my use case, specifically because of the actions that can be used within Evernote with notebooks. More to the point, you can't share an item, idea, picture, our audio to a tag, in the same way you can to a notebook. Also, in terms of organization tags are messy, while notebooks are clean, in my view. It is for that reason that I do not find the tag workflow as worthwhile as the notebook workflow. And, from the negative votes on your post, and the length of the comment thread on this post, it would be smart for Evernote to look to implement this in the feature roadmap. 

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35 minutes ago, Avi Lambert said:

Tags are not Notebooks.

As you  posted, Notebooks have special features.  They identify notes as

  • Sync'd/local
  • private/shared
  • offline
  • default (Inbox)

>>Also, in terms of organization tags are messy, while notebooks are clean, in my view.

In terms of organization, notebooks and tags are two fields assigned to a note.  They are interchangeable.

Please explain how field2 is messy, and field1 is clean

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31 minutes ago, DTLow said:

As you  posted, Notebooks have special features.  They identify notes as

  • Sync'd/local
  • private/shared
  • offline
  • default (Inbox)

>>Also, in terms of organization tags are messy, while notebooks are clean, in my view.

In terms of organization, notebooks and tags are two fields assigned to a note.  They are interchangeable.

Please explain how field2 is messy, and field1 is clean

In reply to your query, the issue is not about field2 or field1. The missing feature is second level organization. The attached image explains was I am looking for, with the OSX/Linux operating system. I have also attached a short of my own Evernote account to show that I use Notebooks primarily and stay away from tags. I have used tags in the past, and I've been using Evernote for over a decade. 

Evernote would do well and be smart to update the Notebook feature for premium and business users. Ian the CEO and the team are more user focused than previously which is good, but the features, long asked for by users like second level notebook organization are still behind what they could be.

 

my-org.png

second-level-stacks.png

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1 hour ago, Avi Lambert said:

The missing feature is second level organization.

The request is for unlimited levels (Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks)

We currently have unlimited organization levels with tags; users are asking for the same with notebooks 

>>tags are messy, while notebooks are clean661243210_ScreenShot2019-09-09at12_05_09.png.2ecbda1cf1a5cb0fa0fcc9f6a5d5c0cb.png

Please explain.  I used your screenshop as an example

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Just shared this on Twitter with the goal of increasing the votes up so it will be taken seriously and acted upon. Just used Adobe Cloud and was able to configure third and fourth level folders without trouble. This should not be an issue for the development team IMHO. Share this in your community to get it voted up also. 

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9 hours ago, Avi Lambert said:

Just used Adobe Cloud and was able to configure third and fourth level folders without trouble.

Adobe Cloud uses Folders and Sub-Folders?

Evernote uses Notebooks/Tags; some users in this discussion have problems adjusting to the name switch

We can emulate folders using the trees in the sidebar

  • The notebook tree has 2 levels
  • The tag tree has unlimited levels; I can easily go 4+ levels using tags

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12 hours ago, Sarabeara said:

Adding my vote. Being able to stack stacks is integral.

I currently have a situation where I want to archive my stacks into one stack and start fresh..   but that's not possible.. and no I don't want to move all the notebooks inside into one stack, the hierarchy that I have is important...

Is there any way we can get this prioritised??

I'd hope it's been mentioned before in this thread,  but just to confirm - Evernote is based on a database layout which was originally designed in a specific way that does not - we've been told by people who work there - allow for a hierarchy of stacks or notebooks.  It would require a redesign of some underlying systems to allow that to be added.  The problem is that Evernote now hosts 250 million (or so) databases in that original format,  and making fundamental changes to the structure is not something that can be done lightly,  or overnight.  Regardless of the number of users who require that style of organisation,  it may simply not be worth it to Evernote to invest heavily in re-engineering the database and running risk of affecting their whole client-base.  Priorities are not involved here - it's like wanting to J-turn a cruise liner - a ship is not set up to make sudden turns and the passengers wouldn't like it if it did.

As to the archiving stacks question - as a subscriber,  you'll be able to switch between accounts on a desktop.  Why not set up your archive(s) in a separate Basic account to get them out of the way? 

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3 hours ago, x9sim9 said:

This is never going to be implemented so its important people arriving at this thread are made aware of this.

You are incorrect.  Evernote has not said that this will 'never' be implemented, nor has anyone else in this thread suggested that. 

Evernote staff have said that through an accident of design this feature is not available at this time.  Future changes may correct that.

Meantime I have an account of around 50,000 notes and an active 'getting things done' system which works very effectively for me based entirely on tags and a database of standard single-level notebooks.  If you are wedded to a system that requires a notebook hierarchy,  then you do need to look for another provider. 

If you are prepared to compromise your principles slightly in order to get Evernote's ease of use,  highly effective search system and multi-platform access,  then  a little experimentation may convince you that this is still a better solution.

Don't just take my word for it...  Steve Dotto likes Evernote too...

 

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<Sigh>  There has been - endless - discussion of this topic.  It's not currently available,  and is unlikely to become available in the short term...

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14 hours ago, Anton R said:

I'm missing the possibility to easily create subfolders with a deeper hierachie.

Evernote doesn't support a folder filing methodology
Instead, we get two metadata fields; Notebooks and Tags
imho  This is a superior organization method

Users can emulate folders using the Notebook/Tag trees in the sidebar
The Tag tree supports unlimited levels

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14 hours ago, Anton R said:

I'm missing the possibility to easily create subfolders with a deeper hierachie.

Mod: Merging to the mother request...

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Tags would be workable as folders if they could automatically inherit the heirarchical labels. I mean if people don't want this then it could be toggled.

Otherwise I have to put all those in by hand separated by dashes, which is unwieldy and difficult to remember. If I tag a subfolder in work, I want it in work too.

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2 hours ago, ipicle said:

Tags would be workable as folders if they could automatically inherit the heirarchical labels. I mean if people don't want this then it could be toggled.

Adding search syntax that takes into account tag hierarchy has already been suggested, from me (I could find it, with some effort), at least, somewhere around 8 or 9 years ago. The Windows client has this capability, but it's an all or nothing affair (global setting) rather than a change to the search language, which is what I prefer.

As it happens, though, I don't depend on hierarchical anything in Evernote, except for using a couple of stacks for organization. For me, the fact that a note can be categorized by more than one makes organization a lot easier and more flexible than with nested notebooks. *shrug* Horses for courses...

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3 hours ago, ipicle said:

Tags would be workable as folders if they could automatically inherit the heirarchical labels. I mean if people don't want this then it could be toggled.

Otherwise I have to put all those in by hand separated by dashes, which is unwieldy and difficult to remember. If I tag a subfolder in work, I want it in work too.

We can emulate folders using the notebook/tag trees in the the sidebar (Windows/Mac)

I'm a fan of indicating hierarchy in the notebook/tag names.   
I usually only type this on setup.      
To use the notebook/tags, I'm selecting from a filtered list

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I fully agree and support this idea. Although we have been asking it for 10 years and nothing changed. 

I have been a veeery long user of evernote, for the last years a premium user. But it has started feeling dated. I briefly experimented with Notion lately, a breath of fresh air that is rapidly changing and improving. Most of the characteristics that I see being asked here, they are already present there or keep getting added by the month.

For the moment they lack a couple of things that Evernote does really well: 

- search function in EN is really top class. Can't be matched yet qua speed and accuracy

- snappy feeling for both desktop and mobile apps (one click better for EN)

- security with 2 step verification

- simplicity (Notion feels a bit complex to master and looks a bit cluttered especially if you are transferring your database from EN). Because of the different structure it would take me quite some work to properly reorganize 1500 notes.

For the time being I am staying with EN but it was a pretty close choice. My advice would be to check some characteristics and try implementing them asap, otherwise I see users flocking away.

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A conversation I had on Reddit shows that the development debt is why we can't have second and third level notebooks. The following post on Reddit in the Evernote forum is added because of the clarity of the response.

I would prefer to stay with Evernote, but with so many openly talking about Notion and moving over to it, Evernote must do something about this before too long, or it will lose business users. Also it would be nice to not get the same catch-all answer "use tags". 
 

 
Quote

 

Second level notebook stuff is probably discouraged not because they hate the idea, but because Evernote's databases are all flat - for any one user, there's a single, flat list of notebooks and a single, flat list of tags. It's why you can't have multiple notebooks with the same name or multiple tags with the same name even if they're in different parts of the "folder tree" - the data actually isn't a folder tree. With tags, they can do some shenanigans, but with notebooks that wouldn't be so easy.

But one level of notebooks is not really enough, so back in the day they added a data field to the notebook database. It's the notebook stack the notebook belongs to.

Notice something? There is no such object in the database as a notebook stack. The UI just groups notebooks with the same "stack" field together. This is why you eg. can't have multiple notebooks with the same name even if they're in different stacks (they're just a flat pile in reality) which is what you'd expect out of a real folder hierarchy, and it also means stacking stacks is pretty much impossible since they don't actually exist as any kind of object you might be able to organize.

So when people understandably ask for some kind of hierarchy - nestable notebooks, stackable stacks, something - well, given the company's new mindset of actually improving their product it may happen someday. But it will be a big, big rebuild under the hood.

These kinds of data structure restrictions pop up all over the place. Why can't you share live views into single pages in OneNote the way you can in Evernote? Well, Evernote has a database for notes and a database for notebooks, so they have single note objects they can manage. A OneNote notebook, it turns out, is a folder on disk that contains subfolders to represent section groups, and .one files to contain section data. The pages themselves are stored in the section files and there is no individual page file to share and permission. You might notice that they could manage sharing permissions for individual section files since they actually exist in the filesystem, and 'lo and behold they happen to be working on sharing single sections.

A lot of the time when devs just ignore requests, it's not because they hate their users or because they're stuffy ivory tower jerks. It's usually that design decisions were made years and years ago (OneNote was released in 2003, before the cloud was much of a thing let alone central to Microsoft, Evernote was released in 2008. They're ancient), sometimes under a time crunch that gets some feature shipped in time but comes to haunt the devs later on when the app isn't as adaptable as it could be. The industry term for this is technical debt, and Evernote among others has a lot. The folders issue is one case of it.

Having a lot of technical debt doesn't mean they can't get rid of it or improve the app, but solving tech debt means a lot of work that is invisible to users before you can even start taking advantage of the new, better structure to start developing new features that the users would see. Some stuff they've already announced like the editor changes they're building now are work in this kind of vein.

The best thing is to keep reminding the company that you're willing to stay, that you want the debt solved and the features implemented. From a company POV, it needs stability and patience. Customer, similar deal, and they have to understand that the architecture work isn't stagnation, it's building a solid foundation and replacing all manner of ugly, finicky hacks.

 

 

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On 12/17/2019 at 3:22 PM, Avi Lambert said:

A conversation I had on Reddit shows that the development debt is why we can't have second and third level notebooks.

Not clear about "development debt", but I know Evernote has implemented unlimited levels for note organization; check out the Tag field

>Well, Evernote has a database for notes and a database for notebooks ...Evernote's databases are all flat

On my Mac, Note content is not stored in a database; just folders in the OS for each note    
-  as posted, this organization is flat
Note metadata is stored in an SQLite database, in particular two fields; Notebook and Tags   
These fields are indexed and allow for organization of notes into levels   
The tag record includes a parent-tag, allowing for unlimited levels

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OK... here's an idea.

 

Instead of trying to get Evernote to do this (...with all the reasoning whey it's nigh on impossible)

… why not start from scratch?

Build Evernote as it should have been ( i.e. as many users want it to be) and enable an import rather than an 'update' with a simple set of instructions.

That should / could then populate the 'new' Evernote with all the old content (and set up hierarchies already established, this time as real not faux).

i.e. instead of trying to re forge an existing tool … start again. With all the knowledge and hindsight the development team now have, and listening to the feedback gained from USERS. 

In that way the new Evernote could / should be able both to hold it's users and steal a march on other newer systems?

Just my two pennyworth. 

"they would have to completely re-build it"

So go on then. 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, IainBev said:

why not start from scratch?

To start from scratch, export your notes  in HTML format  (Mac/Windows)    
You will then be able io organize your notes into folders;  as many levels as you like

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12 minutes ago, DTLow said:

To start from scratch, export your notes  in HTML format  (Mac/Windows)    
You will then be able io organize your notes into folders;  as many levels as you like

But that kills the Evernote functionality? You would have to continually sweep Evernote into these directories and manually re-assign... and not have the interface for quick access? Does not sound like a particularly workable solution. Evernote would simply become a harvesting tool... not an access / archive one. If however you could export and then re-import into a new Evernote with a proper hierarchy… that would be worth doing.

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18 hours ago, IainBev said:

OK... here's an idea.

 

Instead of trying to get Evernote to do this (...with all the reasoning whey it's nigh on impossible)

… why not start from scratch?

Build Evernote as it should have been ( i.e. as many users want it to be) and enable an import rather than an 'update' with a simple set of instructions.

That should / could then populate the 'new' Evernote with all the old content (and set up hierarchies already established, this time as real not faux).

i.e. instead of trying to re forge an existing tool … start again. With all the knowledge and hindsight the development team now have, and listening to the feedback gained from USERS. 

In that way the new Evernote could / should be able both to hold it's users and steal a march on other newer systems?

Just my two pennyworth. 

"they would have to completely re-build it"

So go on then. 

There are many reasons why this is not a great idea. For a general overview, see the classic  https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/. This doesn't imply that Joel's analysis is completely correct  for all cases-- sometimes a complete rewrite is warranted -- but still, this article frames things a bit. 

Me, I doubt that a complete rebuild would be required, but certainly there'd be a pretty sizable level of effort involved, and right now they'focused on a different large product (https://discussion.evernote.com/forum/306-behind-the-scenes-series/)...

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I so much HATE Evernote as a company, for not answering to this really Basic Request, which so much of their competitors offer.

Just make a deeper hierarchy possible for people, that need it. And NO, i can not achieve the same with tags - not in my collaboration/Teamsetting and not in my preference of using, thinking and filing Stuff. 

It would be such a great App, absolutly unbeatable, if they woudl offer some Hierarchy, (and some Functionality in Tables; please look at Notion). And make the Dark Mode for Windows Users already; the Mac Users already got it!

 

As soon, as Notion improves their Android App and implement Handwiriting: i'm out. If nothing changes. And many others time by time for sure also.

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15 hours ago, Andre Doernemann said:

And NO, i can not achieve the same with tags - not in my collaboration/Teamsetting and not in my preference of using, thinking and filing Stuff. 

Please provide some details on your use-case and why it requires Notebooks instead of Tags
afaik  Tags and Notebooks are interchangeable (except for the share/sync/offline thing)

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8 hours ago, Andre Doernemann said:

I so much HATE Evernote as a company

Life is way too short....

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

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11 hours ago, Andre Doernemann said:

I so much HATE Evernote as a company, for not answering to this really Basic Request, which so much of their competitors offer.

Just make a deeper hierarchy possible for people, that need it. And NO, i can not achieve the same with tags - not in my collaboration/Teamsetting and not in my preference of using, thinking and filing Stuff. 

It would be such a great App, absolutly unbeatable, if they woudl offer some Hierarchy, (and some Functionality in Tables; please look at Notion). And make the Dark Mode for Windows Users already; the Mac Users already got it!

 

As soon, as Notion improves their Android App and implement Handwiriting: i'm out. If nothing changes. And many others time by time for sure also.

Its a case of evernote telling customers what it thinks is best rather than listening to customers, probably why they have had so much financial trouble in the past.

If it helps I ended up moving to nimbus note (which has unlimited folder depth), its not as well polished as evernote but you can actually email the developers directly and participate in its development which is definitely the right direction. If only evernote was the same way 😞

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On 5/17/2018 at 3:02 AM, rocketguy said:

A note to Evernote ;)

The lack of this feature is why my company chose Quip over Evernote. And it's why I am finally getting around to moving my personal Evernote content to some other (yet undecided) service.

I've just checked Quip out. It kind of leaves Evernote in the shade, doesn't it. I'm still messing with it but right now I see no reason not to make a move over to it.

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1 hour ago, kimaldis said:

I've just checked Quip out. It kind of leaves Evernote in the shade, doesn't it. I'm still messing with it but right now I see no reason not to make a move over to it.

Looks like Quip is rather more expensive per user than Evernote.  It's aimed at a business market with spreadsheets and powerpoint-a-like features included.  If you need that type of thing, of course it makes sense to move over. Since I don't have time to road test new apps and Evernote (still) works for me...

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We are talking completely different use cases here.

Quip is an add-on tool for Salesforce-users, to get some document handling, edit and spreadsheet functions added to Salesforce. And secondly it is focused on being teamware, which means it is not created with an individual user in mind.

Prices start at 10$/user/month (with an advertised discount package of 30$/month/first 5 users, but only available with these 5 licenses as a block) plus one probably needs Salesforce. Many functions EN offers are not advertised, so probably they do not exist.

So everybody who wants to test it: Have fun.

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2 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

We are talking completely different use cases here.

Quip is an add-on tool for Salesforce-users, to get some document handling, edit and spreadsheet functions added to Salesforce. And secondly it is focused on being teamware, which means it is not created with an individual user in mind.

Prices start at 10$/user/month (with an advertised discount package of 30$/month/first 5 users, but only available with these 5 licenses as a block) plus one probably needs Salesforce. Many functions EN offers are not advertised, so probably they do not exist.

So everybody who wants to test it: Have fun.

It's free for personal use. I'm using it with no Salesforce account. It works fine for single users. It offers more of what I need than Evernote does and they seem to have a better understanding of end users' needs than Evernote does. Evernote isshowing it's age and there's no sign that anyone treats that seriously.

 

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The switching costs of going to another application are too high. I just tried Nimbus Note, which does a fair job. But the things that Evernote has in my workflow just aren't worth switching to another app. Therefore it's very much a circumstance lock-in.

In which case, until Ian leads the development to make numerous sub-folders in stacks, I'll stay with Evernote. At which point hell might freeze over. 

Here are a three points where I'm confident Evernote creates value above the competition:

  1. Encrypting text
  2. OCR and Screencapture
  3. Integration into OSx

 

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1 hour ago, kimaldis said:

there's no sign that anyone treats that seriously.

This request has over 400 user votes
however there's a skeuomorphism problem; they want an organization hierarchy and it must be called Notebooks, no other name is acceptable

Evernote has taken the organization hierarchy seriously - this was implemented long ago with the Tag feature

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53 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Please add more detail

tags have to be uniquely named. So I can't have 2 nodes both with, say, a notes tag undereneath. Why wouldn't I want to have identically named nodes in several places in my note structure? I know there are naming workarounds but they're just that, workarounds. It's kludgy and I don't want to have to deal with it.

consider this structure:

  • aaa
    • bbb
    • ccc

If I select tag 'aaa'in the sidebar it only shows notes contained in 'aaa'. It should show notes in the child tags

The full path of any given tag doesn't show in the note header. This doesn't seem like a problem now but it is if non-unique tag names are allowed.

Why can't I create and rearrange notebooks and tags by D&D in the sidebar. Who would anyone miss that out?

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19 hours ago, kimaldis said:

tags have to be uniquely named

Confirmed - Unique names is a restriction Evernote applies to Notebooks/Tags    
Personally, it works for me; for example I assign notebook/tag "Insurance" to a note without caring about it's place in the tree

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49 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Confirmed - Unique names is a restriction Evernote applies to Notebooks/Tags    
Personally, it works for me; for example I assign notebook/tag "Insurance" to a note without caring about it's place in the tree

sure, and that's how tags should be. There's the problem, though, they've shoe-horned a partially hierarchical system into tags when really notebooks are more suited. So they have a half hierarchical notebook system - only two levels - and a half-hierarchical tag system, neither of which provide much of why anyone would need a tree structure for thier notes. It's like nearly everything in Evernote; done in the most unhelpful possible way.

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18 hours ago, kimaldis said:

... are more suited

Please add more details - these are two fields in the note metadata - interchangeable for most uses

Notebooks are required in Evernote for sync'd/local, private/shared, offline

I think your intent is to assign notes to folders    
There is no support for folders in Evernote    
We can emulate folders somewhat using the notebook/tag trees in the sidebar

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17 hours ago, kimaldis said:

and a half-hierarchical tag system, neither of which provide much of why anyone would need a tree structure for thier notes.

Sigh. Had this discussion with someone else recently. Uniqueness of tag names does not make the Evernote tag tree any less hierarchical than if duplicate tag names were allowed. It's still a hierarchy, much as say, a company org chart that organizes employees into a hierarchy is still, yes, a hierarchy. Splitting hairs a bit, but the tag tree is not a "half-hierarchy".

That being said, sure, it might be convenient to have multiple instances of the same tag name in the tag tree, but what are the implications? Is tag "A" in one part of the tree the same tag as tag "A" in another part of the tree? If you want that, then some things need to be changed. Tagging becomes a bit more complicated, since you're now tagging with is what is in essence a tag path, so you need to disambiguate. How does this affect search? You'd probably need ways to treat a tag as a path or as a pure label (which it is now). It all seems kin of awkward to me.

In the end, the Evernote tag tree can be used to navigate your notes if you want (and you're careful and disciplined), and people do (but I don't, being more lazy than disciplined when it comes to organizing my notes), but it's antithetical to the primary notion of a tag in Evernote. A tag is not a container; it labels a note. A note can have multiple tabs, and that's a strength. Flip side, a note belongs to exactly one notebook, much like a fil ein a file system (modulo hard links, etc.), so I think it's far more likely that Evernote will eventually go to some form of nested notebook structure, rather than  allowing tags to live in multiple parts of the tag tree. I don't really count stacks; they're helpful to some degree, and I use them a little, but I don't use a lot of notebooks either (< 25 across two accounts). For my money, tags are a better way of organizing my notes than yet another hierarchical system to traipse up and down. As usual, YMMV...

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9 hours ago, kimaldis said:

There's the problem, though, they've shoe-horned a partially hierarchical system into tags when really notebooks are more suited.

The contra is actually the truth in my view, users have shoehorned a hierarchical system into tags.  Tags in and of themselves are just that, tags.  They have no structural component.  You can nest tags but that is pretty much just an organizational thing group all accounts together under Accounts for example (other than the option to find all notes for the parent tag and its children). 

You get the same "node" on notes by using the same tag on notes.  So every project doesn't have to have a training tag.  One training tag will do paired up with the appropriate project tag to find all training notes for a project.  It's a tuple view vs a hierarchical view.

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21 hours ago, kimaldis said:

If I select tag 'aaa'in the sidebar it only shows notes contained in 'aaa'. It should show notes in the child tags

In the windows client there is an option "automatically select child tags" which works perfectly.

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42 minutes ago, Mike P said:

In the windows client there is an option "automatically select child tags" which works perfectly.

We don't have the child option on other platforms, but I replicate the hierarchy in my notebook/tag names   
For example  tag:Budget and child tags Budget-House, Budget-Food, Budget-...

I can search for tag:Budget* 

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3 hours ago, Mike P said:

In the windows client there is an option "automatically select child tags" which works perfectly.

Unfortunately, this is a bad, or at least misguided feature in the Windows client, for a several reasons:

  • It's a global setting: you cannot choose to make a search be a subtag search if the option is off, and you cannot choose to make a search be an exact (i.e., no subtags) if it's on
  • The search semantics (i.e., results you get) when the option is on will not match the results in any other client, and also do not match the documented search language (https://dev.evernote.com/doc/articles/search_grammar.php). So your saved searches may not work the same on non-Windows cients.
  • If you are adding tags by choosing tags by clicking them from a list with the option on, you can get a big surprise if you add tags that have subtags: all of the subtags are added explicitly to the search (i.e., you see them in the search info), *and* it turns your search automatically into an ANY search, even if it was an AND search (the default). Surprise!

I'd say that this works much less than perfectly. I  think that someone on the Windows team thought that with would be a clever hack, but it was far too clever for its own good. A much better way to have implemented this would have been to add a way to specify subtag search in the search language (e.g., via something like a +tag:AParentTag term) , and support it everywhere so that searches work the same on all device types. Then you could use it, or not, in specific searches, and also achieve a new set of AND/OR searches by specifying a subtag search term in a standard AND search, much like wildcarded text searches in Evernote work.

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My apologies if I am repeating what anyone else has said/asked... I simply do not have the time to read through all 15 pages of this discussion! One thing I did notice is people saying they would rather use OneNote because of this feature lacking. Idu... OneNote has notebooks, sections, and pages; EN has stacks, notebooks and notes - what's the difference?

I am a PhD level researcher and have tried every piece of note-taking/annotation software/app to annotate, keep and organise hundreds of academic papers and journals. Some do some things well, but EN has the most of the different functions I need in one place (not ALL, but it minimises the amount of different programs I have to jump between to do different things).

I currently use tags to label notes with areas in the research they are relevant to, but I would like to create another layer(s). Could someone please explain how tag hierarchies are created, or point me to somewhere where it is explained in detail? I do think another level of subnotes would be great, so upvoted this fwiw, but could use some help making what is available work for me in the meantime, thanks!

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, jefito said:

Unfortunately, this is a bad, or at least misguided feature in the Windows client, for a several reasons:

  • It's a global setting: you cannot choose to make a search be a subtag search if the option is off, and you cannot choose to make a search be an exact (i.e., no subtags) if it's on
  • The search semantics (i.e., results you get) when the option is on will not match the results in any other client, and also do not match the documented search language (https://dev.evernote.com/doc/articles/search_grammar.php). So your saved searches may not work the same on non-Windows cients.
  • If you are adding tags by choosing tags by clicking them from a list with the option on, you can get a big surprise if you add tags that have subtags: all of the subtags are added explicitly to the search (i.e., you see them in the search info), *and* it turns your search automatically into an ANY search, even if it was an AND search (the default). Surprise!

I'd say that this works much less than perfectly. I  think that someone on the Windows team thought that with would be a clever hack, but it was far too clever for its own good. A much better way to have implemented this would have been to add a way to specify subtag search in the search language (e.g., via something like a +tag:AParentTag term) , and support it everywhere so that searches work the same on all device types. Then you could use it, or not, in specific searches, and also achieve a new set of AND/OR searches by specifying a subtag search term in a standard AND search, much like wildcarded text searches in Evernote work.

It's not a feature I personally use for many of the reasons you outline. If I do need to select all the child tags I manually select them by clicking the parent tag and then shift + clicking the last child tag in the list and then changing "all" to "any" in the search details. 

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3 hours ago, Mike P said:

It's not a feature I personally use for many of the reasons you outline. If I do need to select all the child tags I manually select them by clicking the parent tag and then shift + clicking the last child tag in the list and then changing "all" to "any" in the search details. 

Yup. I thought the idea was cool when it was introduced, but too many times I clicked on a tag with subchildren without realizing, and got my search filter bombed with all of those tags (sometimes 20 or more). I don't use the tag tree for hierarchical searching, just to organize them loosely. If Evernote ever offered better tools to do hierarchical tag search, I'd consider using them, but I seem to be doing OK as it is.

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