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Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks


cswsteve

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I think Evernote is a fantastic product, especially with the iPhone integration. I currently use a program called UltraRecall because of it's heavy use of subfolders. This makes organizing my data ve

I don't understand why after almost 10 years this has not been implemented yet. Also, I don't understand why workarounds such as tags are considered a good solution. Is it that complicated to add

To all Guru's that keep saying the same thing about being able to do the same thing with tag. This maybe so but is not the point.  Clearly for at least the last 9 Years people have been asking fo

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3 hours ago, Mike P said:

It's not a feature I personally use for many of the reasons you outline. If I do need to select all the child tags I manually select them by clicking the parent tag and then shift + clicking the last child tag in the list and then changing "all" to "any" in the search details. 

Yup. I thought the idea was cool when it was introduced, but too many times I clicked on a tag with subchildren without realizing, and got my search filter bombed with all of those tags (sometimes 20 or more). I don't use the tag tree for hierarchical searching, just to organize them loosely. If Evernote ever offered better tools to do hierarchical tag search, I'd consider using them, but I seem to be doing OK as it is.

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On 1/25/2020 at 10:55 AM, mixpix said:

... Could someone please explain how tag hierarchies are created, or point me to somewhere where it is explained in detail? ...

 
Simply Right-Click on an already created tag and select 'Create tag in "<this>"...' to create a sub-level tag (if you are a Windows user - if not, I'm sure that other platform offer similar functionality 😉).
 
I've done so with groups of tags to describe note attributes like "When?", "Who?", "Where?", "Type" and so on. My current tag tree looks like the following:
image.png.71968349ac50607351bf065dc79d3b39.png 
You can find a more-in-detail description of this methodology in http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/114779-using-tags-to-implement-dynamic-todo-lists/. This makes it completely unnecessary to structure notebooks in deep hierarchies.
 
I've around 10 stacks of several notebooks organized by tags like described above. Nobody needs more. Full stop 😉
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On 1/25/2020 at 9:55 AM, mixpix said:

My apologies if I am repeating what anyone else has said/asked... I simply do not have the time to read through all 15 pages of this discussion! One thing I did notice is people saying they would rather use OneNote because of this feature lacking. Idu... OneNote has notebooks, sections, and pages; EN has stacks, notebooks and notes - what's the difference?

I am a PhD level researcher and have tried every piece of note-taking/annotation software/app to annotate, keep and organise hundreds of academic papers and journals. Some do some things well, but EN has the most of the different functions I need in one place (not ALL, but it minimises the amount of different programs I have to jump between to do different things).

I currently use tags to label notes with areas in the research they are relevant to, but I would like to create another layer(s). Could someone please explain how tag hierarchies are created, or point me to somewhere where it is explained in detail? I do think another level of subnotes would be great, so upvoted this fwiw, but could use some help making what is available work for me in the meantime, thanks!

Hi.  You've not said what device(s) or OS('s) you're using,  which is a relevant factor in that some OS's show tags in slightly different ways,  and mobile OS's generally don't support a tag hierarchy (TH).  You'll get a flat list of all tags regardless of parent/child relationships.  TH's are otherwise pretty simple - it's possible to 'nest' tags as deeply as you'd like,  so subtags down to 100 levels could be set up,  if rather impractical. 

Plus.  searching for a sub-level tag can also display all 'parent' levels.  Or not - it's an option.

477426164_Clipboard1.jpg.31e034e99d39dc0ad89f059effa60d12.jpg

The Note options you have are:

  • Stacks - contain notebooks only: no notes (selecting a stack gives you a listing of all notes in the notebooks in that stack)
  • Notebooks - contain notes only - no 'deeper' level
  • Notes - various types of content - can be linked directly to other notes

Tags and note titles add extra dimensions - forinstance I always start note titles with the date the contents were created in yyyymmdd format.  That date is likely different to the created date of the note,

Another grouping of notes can be engineered by Tables of Content - also referred to here sometimes as 'dashboards'.  Maintenance is an issue,  but I use an app Filterize to automate that.  I have one notebook for Dashboard notes and one dashboard note with links to all the others which is the ultimate parent reference point.

From that note - call that 'level one' - I can choose any of the others (level two) which contain links to notes anywhere in my database (level three) which can also be local dashboards for more specialist subjects (level four) which can also be dashboards... ad infinitum until you eventually get to an actual note containing data!

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I used to use EverNote for everything, using single-level notebooks and lots of tags. When they added the ability to stack notebooks, I was happy for awhile, but it really wasn't enough. I recently started using Bublup, which lets me nest folders as many levels deep as I want. This makes it very easy for me to organize things in whatever way works for those things. Any given folder can hold any kind of data: links, notes, images, files, even more folders. The only thing Bublup doesn't do is tags. But I've discovered that for almost everything I'm doing right now, I don't need tags, because I can set up multiply-nested folders.

So the only thing that I consistently still use EverNote for is collecting recipes and other food-related info. Everything goes into one folder, and I tag the heck out of it: meal category, ingredients, special equipment, tips, etc. I've found that tags work better for the recipe collection than multiple folders, because there's a lot of overlap. To get the same effect with folders, I'd wind up putting a copy of any given recipe into each of a bunch of folders. For example, a muffin recipe might be sweet or savory, it will have ingredients that I always have on hand (so I won't tag those unless it requires an unusual amount of something), but it also has ingredients that I don't always have on hand. Describing that recipe for search purposes is easier with tags; instead of putting it in a folder (Muffins/Sweet/Pumpkin/Sour Cream/Freezable), I can just tag it with all those characteristics. Then, when I have several cans of pumpkin puree and feel like making muffins that I can then freeze, I just search for the tags muffins + pumpkin + freezable, and I'm good to go.

Tags work really well for my recipe collection, but for everything else I'm doing, nested folders are so much easier to organize. If we could do multiple layers of nested folders (matryoshka folders, anyone?), then I'd probably go back to using EverNote for everything. I might even divvy up the recipe collection into folders, in addition to using tags.

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3 hours ago, Andrea Johnson said:

for everything else I'm doing, nested folders are so much easier to organize.

If that's your personal experience,  then it's absolutely fine to use whatever method you prefer.  It's a fact that Evernote does not currently directly support 'nesting' notebooks beyond Stacks > Notebooks > Notes.  There have been hints that they might change the system used for the application's administration of notes to allow more flexibility,  but we don't yet know what that might look like.  Meantime there are 'work arounds' like tags, tables of content etc which may or  may not apply to your use case.

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6 hours ago, Andrea Johnson said:

I don't need tags, because I can set up multiply-nested folders...        

If we could do multiple layers of nested folders...

Notebooks, Tags, Folders;  they're just labels for an organization tool      
Evernote supplies us with two note metadata fields; Notebooks and Tags 
For this discussion,  the important thing is hierarchy (nesting)

For myself, the important thing is identifying the categories that apply to a note   
Do the Bublup folders allow for multiple assignments?

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On 1/13/2020 at 4:54 PM, DTLow said:

Please provide some details on your use-case and why it requires Notebooks instead of Tags
afaik  Tags and Notebooks are interchangeable (except for the share/sync/offline thing)

That's it; i need to share many notes and we want to have a structure.

2.) I don't want to remember my tags. When i create a Note, i have to tag it by typing, thus remembering the explicit Tag for the usecase. That is not practical, cause Evernote is for storing Information so i don't NEED to remember everithing. 

 

I just would like to store/file away like i do with my Files in my Computer or in my Head: in Categories and folders. Someones with a flat Hierarchie, cuase simple and some with a deep hierarchy, cause complex.

 

Used Evernote for 3 Companys and private and need more Power...

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1 hour ago, Andre Doernemann said:

Used Evernote for 3 Companys and private and need more Power...

Sounds like you might need Evernote Business - it still doesn't support nested notebooks,  but there's an additional option called spaces that might help...

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2 hours ago, Andre Doernemann said:

I don't want to remember my tags....

You prefer "remembering" notebooks?

>>I just would like to store/file away like i do with my Files in my Computer

Thats Folder methodology   
It's not supported in Evernote; we get Notebooks and Tags    
Some users emulate folders using the notebook/tag trees in the sidebar

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1 hour ago, krestor2 said:

And I need to see the visual org of a particular project. 

Is that a reference to the notebook/tag trees in the sidebar?484786005_ScreenShot2020-02-12at11_59_48AM.png.24cc0c2c461a612f5d1f4aa9e573798a.png

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There needs to be a better way to store your notes besides a simple notebook and a notebook stack. I have multiple subcategories that necessitate a better folder/subfolder structure. Only being able to stack notes under two categories is inadequate. Yes, it's possible to use multiple tags/subtags and sub-subtags, but that is really only supported on the desktop version on not on the mobile version.

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4 hours ago, CodyB1 said:

There needs to be a better way to store your notes besides a simple notebook and a notebook stack ... Yes, it's possible to use multiple tags/subtags and sub-subtags, but that is really only supported on the desktop version on not on the mobile version.

Evernotes primary organization method is the Tags feature   
From the latest beta testing, tag hierarchy will be supported on other platforms

I merged your post with an ongoing request discussion for this feature

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5 hours ago, CodyB1 said:

Yes, it's possible to use multiple tags/subtags and sub-subtags, but that is really only supported on the desktop version on not on the mobile version.

If your mobile version is Android, then multiple tag filtering is supported, as is navigating through the tag tree.

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6 hours ago, CodyB1 said:

Yes, it's possible to use multiple tags/subtags and sub-subtags, but that is really only supported on the desktop version on not on the mobile version.

Hierarchical tags are NOT supported on the iOS platform, a very popular platform for Evernote.

Even if they were, using hierarchical tags, in lieu of true folder-like hierarchical Notebooks, is a poor second to a real NB solution.  I know because I have been using Tags in EN Mac as pseudo Notebooks for several years now.  There are two main issues with this technique:

  1. Tags must be unique, so you can't have two child tags with the same name.
  2. In EN Mac and EN iOS, there is no way to apply a Parent Tab to tag filters or tag search, and have it automatically include all of its child tags.

@Ian SmallSo we really do need true, OS folder-like, hierarchical Notebooks.  There is no good workaround today.  As you design the new foundation for Evernote, please consider this.

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10 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

So we really do need true, OS folder-like, hierarchical Notebooks

I disagree;  I'm very happy not using true OS folder-like notebooks 
I'm content with flat storage for my notes; tagging where approriate   
Let's just stick with the notebook hierarchy request

>>Tags must be unique, so you can't have two child tags with the same name.

This is an artificial restriction imposed by Evernote    
If duplicates are allowed, we would have to quote hierarchies with each notebook/tag reference

btw  Using shared notebooks can result in duplicate notebook/tag names

>>In EN Mac and EN iOS, there is no way to apply a Parent Tab to tag filters or tag search, and have it automatically include all of its child tags.

Child search is an Evernote/Windows option;   and only not available for notebooks
We can implement child search on a Mac with scripting for both notebooks/tags

I prefix my tagnames to replicate the hierarchy; for example Colour, Colour-white, Colour-red   
I can search for    tag:Colour*

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

In EN Mac and EN iOS, there is no way to apply a Parent Tab to tag filters or tag search, and have it automatically include all of its child tags.

Child search is an Evernote/Windows option; and only available for notebooks  

Child tag search in Windows is a hack and a botch and ultimately a misfeature in Windows, as far as I'm concerned (and have whined elsewhere).Implemented properly, as a part of the search language, it could be quite useful to some folks (I still would probably not use it due to the way I use tags).  Unfortunately in the Windows application it's implemented as a global flag in Options, and supplies some pretty good UI surprise if you accidentally add a tag that's a parent tag to your search.. It should never have

Actually, I don't know what t "only available for notebooks" means: it fails just as poorly in "All Notes", too.

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2 hours ago, DTLow said:

I disagree;  I'm very happy not using true OS folder-like notebooks 
I'm content with flat storage for my notes; tagging where approriate   

It is not a matter of agreement.  What some of us need, others do not.  That applies to many features of any app.  There are some users who prefer to use only plain text files for their notes.  Others of use see the benefit of rich text, hyperlinks, tables, and attachments as being part of our Notes.  Use of most features is optional.

I have proven, at least to myself and a few others, that using Mac Finder Folders (which are fully hierarchical) WITH Finder Tags (which are not hierarchical) is an extremely effective and efficient method of organization. If you, or anyone, do not see this benefit, or do not need it, that's fine.  Many of us do see the benefit.

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3 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

I have proven, at least to myself and a few others, that using Mac Finder Folders (which are fully hierarchical) WITH Finder Tags (which are not hierarchical) is an extremely effective and efficient method of organization.

I'm a Mac user, and interested in Mac Finder Folders; not too interested in Finder Tags

However the purpose of this discussion is Evernote and Notebook hierarchy (Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks)

Evernote Notebooks are not fully hierarchical, hence the above request.   
Evernote Tags are fully hierarchical, each tag record stores an optional parent reference

>>If you, or anyone, do not see this benefit, or do not need it, that's fine.  Many of us do see the benefit.

I see the benefit; hierarchy is an "extremely effective and efficient method of organization" for our notebooks/tags

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

However the purpose of this discussion is Evernote and Notebook hierarchy (Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks)

Glad you recognize the purpose.  Unfortunately you seemed to have missed the point of my analogy and testing.  But let's not digress into a side issue.

1 hour ago, DTLow said:

Evernote Tags are fully hierarchical, each tag record stores an optional parent reference

Perhaps the tags themselves are hierarchical, but I'm sure you know that hierarchy (i.e. its child tags) has no influence on the selection of Notes  are assigned to the Parent tag.  To be clear, we expect that if a Parent tag is selected, that all Notes with the Parent tag and any its child tags are also selected, just like when we select a Stack, it includes all Notes of its NBs, or if we select an OS folder, it includes all of its files and the files of its sub-notebooks.

If we had fully hierarchical NBs, then we would not necessarily need for hierarchical tags to behave in this manner.  I can see the benefit of having the tag structure as we have it now in that case.

So the focus is, and remains, on the request for fully hierarchical Notebooks that work like OS folders.

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On 3/4/2020 at 5:19 PM, JMichaelTX said:

So the focus is, and remains, on the request for fully hierarchical Notebooks that work like OS folders.

No, the focus is, and remains, "Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks"   
It's written at the top

Instead of hijacking this discussion, post a separate request for "like OS folders" and "child search"

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2 hours ago, DTLow said:

No, the focus is, and remains, "Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks"   
It's written at the top

Instead of hijacking this discussion, post a separate request for "like OS folders" and "child search"

I am NOT hijacking the discussion.  The topic title, "Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks" and "fully hierarchical Notebooks that work like OS folders" seem the same to me.

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16 hours ago, Ian Small said:

I would be legitimately interested in understanding what others think the difference between these two things are... Note:  I think this is a question solely about notebooks, not about tags.

Yes, solely about notebooks.

Tags get mentioned because    
1. Both notebooks/tags have been implemented as fields in the note metadata    
2.  Tags are a hierarchical model with unlimited levels in the tag tree   
Folders get mentioned because    
1. Users are familiar with folders,    
2 . Users relate folders to notebooks (but not tags)   

Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks

  • The same feature we have with Tags (hierarchy)   
    Unlimited levels supported in the Notebook tree instead of the current Stack/Notebook levels

Notebooks that work like OS folders

  • The same feature we have with storing files (hierarchy)   
    Unlimited levels supported in the Notebook tree instead of the current Stack/Notebook levels
  • Folder names don't have to be unique   
    Instead of assigning notebook zzzzz to a note      
    the note is filed in folder pathname  aaaaa/bbbbbb/ccccc/.../zzzzz
  • There was an indication that child search is supported
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1 hour ago, Ian Small said:

1) I would be legitimately interested in understanding what others think the difference between these two things are.  To me (admittedly, not having read the entirety of this 11-year-long forum discussion because I think the general drift is right there in the discussion thread title), they seem at first blush to be the same.  Note:  I think this is a question solely about notebooks, not about tags.

Same thing.  I think that folks see OS folder systems and nested notebooks as the same hierarchical structure.  They've been using the structure forever and are comfortable with it.

Not pertinent to your question but I'm not one of those.  I'm less concerned about where I put it but more about how I find it, which is where EN's search capability and tags excel.  With very few notebooks.  🤷‍♂️

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7 hours ago, Ian Small said:

1) I would be legitimately interested in understanding what others think the difference between these two things are.  To me (admittedly, not having read the entirety of this 11-year-long forum discussion because I think the general drift is right there in the discussion thread title), they seem at first blush to be the same.  Note:  I think this is a question solely about notebooks, not about tags.

My humble(ish) opinion - it's a  mind-set difference,  not a real-world issue. 

Everyone is used to Folders (Notebooks),  because that's the way classic computing works. You have pigeon holes for apps and documents,  pictures and music,  because that splits your otherwise random pile of thousands of operating files into smaller portions. The list of possible hits is reduced to human-manageable lengths by segregation. Users extended this to manage files into work vs personal / insurance vs recipes and so on. 

Practical problems arise though when you get to some level of specialization - do you file that business meal receipt in your expenses folder,  or the tax folder,  or the Acme Industries (that's who you ate with) folder... and how about the next meal and the next one - do all the receipts wind up in the same place,  or did you file one in each option because you forgot what you did last time?  Then you use a search to track them all down.

Then there are tags.  Everything is in that one incomprehensible pile.  I have 49.3K notes and until recently (more on that in a moment*) they were mostly all in one notebook and identification was done by tags.  (Actually I use title words as tags so I can search intitle:<keyword>,  but it's the same thing really - I find that more convenient than tagging.) 

My three receipts would all have <Acme>, <receipt> and <food> tags,  but would otherwise be floating around in my default notebook along with thousands of other receipts and other tagged items.  Finding my notes requires a search first.

I think most long-term Evernote users took a while to get used to the lack of folders.  I know I tried to start using the service several different times over a couple of years before I 'got' it and piled on board.  Then I tried several different tagging schemes and forgot lots of tags - at one stage I had <banks> <bankers> <banking> options (don't ask) until I gave up on tags per se.

*Most of us 'old noters' have adapted things so Evernote fits into our activities in the way we feel most comfortable.  My system now involves a notebook for each contact point - suppliers / friends / projects - they all get a notebook to themselves so my 50K pile of notes is split into a smaller chunk of a few hundred.  This is mainly for search efficiency - I don't have to add that one term to my searches - all my notes related to Acme are in one spot,  regardless of what they contain.  I add tags to show <receipt> etc so I can winnow the 300-note pile down as necessary - but at least Search doesn't have to find 300 notes out of 50,000 to start with.

So:  TL:DR - Nestable Folders are familiar, tags requires a system.  Big advantage of Evernote - it's adaptable to pretty much any system: except for nestable folders...  I wouldn't use them now,  but lots of people would,  because they understand that process and don't need to develop new systems to use their data.

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9 hours ago, Ian Small said:

1) I would be legitimately interested in understanding what others think the difference between these two things are.  To me (admittedly, not having read the entirety of this 11-year-long forum discussion because I think the general drift is right there in the discussion thread title), they seem at first blush to be the same.  Note:  I think this is a question solely about notebooks, not about tags.

No difference as far as I can tell.

Tags come in very early, right from the first reply, which was from Dave Engberg himself, as a workaround for lack of nested notebooks, with a hint of tags being TheBetterWayTM. (I have to confess that i think they are, too, but I like to think I'm less militant about it now). Certainly the return to tags in the topic.is due to folks who understandably haven't read the whole thing and have missed the tag workaround, and so it gets repeated in various formulations every so often. Also, as the tag concept seems to be less widely understood  as compared to the nested folder model, some explanation about how they work relative to nested folders is sometimes also required.

Explanation about  the 2 level stack / notebooks vs. a full-blown notebook hierarchy also seem necessary at times.

11 hours ago, Ian Small said:

2) When we get on the other side of this huge lift we are in the middle of, I look forward to moving on to dealing with issues like putting this 11-year-long forum discussion to bed.  Not next week, not next month, but certainly not taking another 11 years to get there...  That's the kind of thing we're trying to free ourselves up to do - provide functionality improvements that are made impossible by the knots our current infrastructure and app layer has us tied up in.  But right now it's one thing at a time, and this first thing we're tackling is proving to be a difficult beast to tame.  Apparently, there's something to that thing they used to say on the Bugs Bunny / Road Runner Show:  "Watch that first step... it's a big one."

No question that adding a fully nested notebook structure would be a big architectural change for you all (and us). I'm doubtful that I'd take much advantage of them, but I'm not ruling it out. My biggest concerns / curiosities are about how they fit into (or take over) the existing architecture:.

  • What happens to stacks?.They have always seemed like a bit of a quick&dirty hack, but they have their uses -- even by me.  But they exist, even if they're only a special attribute of a notebook, and they're supported in the search language. Maybe they just turn into notebooks?
  • One of the iron-clad rules with notebooks currently is that their names must be unique in a single account (duplicate names, standard example, my Work "Todo" notebook shared to my personal account which also has a "Todo" notebook, can come in via sharing, but that makes things confusing). But we all know that file systems allow for the same name to be used elsewhere in the hierarchy. And that affects search, which is a real strength of Evernote. 
  • More on search: if duplicate notebook names are allowed, then a search like "notebook:abc" becomes ambiguous if there are multiple notebooks named 'abc'. Yes, we cope with this in our file system browsers, but gosh, I don't really want to have to use another tree browser in application (though they're not unknown, as I fully understand, say in GIS, where I work as a developer). Is this an opening for hiearchical search, e.g. the ability to search a notebook and all of its subnotebooks? And can we then get hiearchical tag search, e.g. a search for a tag and any of its subtags?
  • Export and sharing: can we export or share a notebook without any if its subnotebooks,? Or all of its subnotebooks?  

Anyhow, good puck pushing forward on your current road. After 12 years, Evernote still does it for me. I look forward to improvements, when they come. Cheers, and carry on!

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17 hours ago, Ian Small said:

1) I would be legitimately interested in understanding what others think the difference between these two things are.  To me (admittedly, not having read the entirety of this 11-year-long forum discussion because I think the general drift is right there in the discussion thread title), they seem at first blush to be the same.  Note:  I think this is a question solely about notebooks, not about tags.

Hey Ian, thanks for taking an interest in this topic, and for jumping in.  We all really appreciate the attention you are paying to a sound restructuring of Evernote.

Obviously I don't see a difference, since I made that statement.  😎

I have three succinct points about having Evernote "fully hierarchical Notebooks that work like OS folders":

  1. This would be very intuitive for just about all users, since all of us have used either the Mac or Windows OS, and know how OS folders work.
  2. They are essential for modeling real-world objects, like Projects, that are inherently hierarchical.
  3. Their use with tags is very, very powerful,  allowing us to file Notes in an organized structure, while still allowing cross-cutting categories, easily overcoming the "where to file" issues several users have raised.  If you'd like some detailed examples of this please let me know.

Finally, if you do provide fully hierarchical Notebooks, I don't see a need to change how tags work in Evernote.

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33 minutes ago, JMichaelTX said:

Finally, if you do provide fully hierarchical Notebooks, I don't see a need to change how tags work in Evernote.

Amen.

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When will this be implemented?  I've seen posts over a decade old asking for this functionality.

I've switched to Notion for now. Takes some getting used to after using Evernote for 8 years, but it allows nested notebooks and helps immensely with keeping my classes and lectures organized.  I cancelled my Evernote sub and signed up for Notion's premium.  Might check back on Evernote in a few years if it's still around to see if they added this, because aside from missing this feature, Evernote is pretty great.

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20 hours ago, 011011011 said:

When will this be implemented?

Hi.  If you read any part of this thread (or many other related ones) you will know that Evernote has never commented on when, whether,  or how they would try to implement any kind of a further hierarchy in Notebook structures.  There have been many requests and arguments,  but this is a normal user-provider situation; users can request any and all features be added,  but the provider is not obliged to listen or comment.  A major refit of all clients is under way,  but we'll only find out if a hierarchy is possible when it's available to be used.

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20 hours ago, 011011011 said:

When will this be implemented? 

Evernote has not indicated an interest in expanding Notebook hierarchy
Evernote's hierarchy focus has always been centered on the Tags element.

For the Notebook element, we have only seen the Stacks implementation

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2 hours ago, gazumped said:

Hi.  If you read any part of this thread (or many other related ones) you will know that Evernote has never commented on when, whether,  or how they would try to implement any kind of a further hierarchy in Notebook structures.  There have been many requests and arguments,  but this is a normal user-provider situation; users can request any and all features be added,  but the provider is not obliged to listen or comment.  A major refit of all clients is under way,  but we'll only find out if a hierarchy is possible when it's available to be used.

Well, there was this:

On 3/12/2020 at 12:21 AM, Ian Small said:

When we get on the other side of this huge lift we are in the middle of, I look forward to moving on to dealing with issues like putting this 11-year-long forum discussion to bed.  Not next week, not next month, but certainly not taking another 11 years to get there...  That's the kind of thing we're trying to free ourselves up to do - provide functionality improvements that are made impossible by the knots our current infrastructure and app layer has us tied up in.  But right now it's one thing at a time, and this first thing we're tackling is proving to be a difficult beast to tame. 

So I think that the intention is there, but it's not going to be for a while...

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3 hours ago, gustavo_luiss said:

I need folders to organize my notebook's this is a bullshit use only tags when we can have both.

Evernote has notebook and tag fields; no support for folders

This discussion is for the addition of hierarchy (levels) for the notebook field     
Yes, this can be useful for both fields

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I would love to see EN add the ability to create sub-folders. It would be a great addition to using tags in keeping my data organized. I've been using OneNote for a long time and I like how I can have a notebook with different sections and then different pages in each section.

 

The ability to have a main folder for a specific topic and then to have sub-folders in the main folder allows me to place all my data concerning the main topic into separate folders according to sub-categories. Once I have these sub-folders filled with some data I can add tags to help me locate what I need.

 

The way I used OneNote, and how I would use EN with sub-folders: I process commissions for employees where I work. Each year has a main folder. Then each month has a folder in the year's folder. Then I have sub-folders in each month's folder for each category of commissions that gets paid out. In the year folder I also have a folder for each employee. If EN were to enable sub-folders, I would be able to switch over to it and leave OneNote. I like OneNote but it has its limitations. If EN can make it happen, I would definitely use it a lot more.

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On 4/19/2020 at 4:24 PM, Me_in_VA said:

If EN can make it happen, I would definitely use it a lot more.

Well,  they may be in the process of expanding the options available... or they may not. We won't know until the next iteration of the Editor is launched onto an unsuspecting world.  Have to say that I feel I could manage your situation in one notebook with tags for years,  months and categories and saved searches to generate 'virtual' folders for (forinstance) Gaz for the month of April 2020 and commission for 'random replies'. But that's just me.  (Oh - and the saved searches could be made into Dashboards showing the constantly updated status of each employee for all their commissions with an add-in called Filterize... if you wanted.)

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On 4/19/2020 at 8:24 AM, Me_in_VA said:

I would love to see EN add the ability to create sub-folders. It would be a great addition to using tags in keeping my data organized.

Evernote has no support for folders 

Instead, Evernote has two metadata fields; Notebooks and Tags

>Each year has a main folder. Then each month has a folder in the year'sfolder. Then I have sub-folders in each month's folder for each category of commissions that gets paid out.

You can use multiple levels in the Tag feature   
Folders can be emulated using the TagTree in the sidebar

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On 4/19/2020 at 11:24 AM, Me_in_VA said:

The ability to have a main folder for a specific topic and then to have sub-folders in the main folder allows me to place all my data concerning the main topic into separate folders according to sub-categories. Once I have these sub-folders filled with some data I can add tags to help me locate what I need.

Tags can be used across notebooks, and are an effective way to group related notes, wherever they are. One other option: if you have a main note, you might want to turn it into a "table of contents" note by using note links to directly link to other, related notes. I use a combination of tags and note links myself.

 

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Clearly reasons don't matter after 10+ years, so I won't even bother.  This would be a great feature to have.  I find it difficult to believe customers would be turned off to EN if such a feature was implemented, yet many of us fight this lack of function all the time.  I will keep looking for a replacement.  Being a software developer, I find it hard to believe there is a technical reason to not implement this,  hence my reason not to even bother with reasons.  EN has to want to ....

Please implement more nesting in the stacks.  Thank you!

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I use OneNote for personal notes and lists specifically because of the page feature within each note. It's a game changer. That platform isn't supported by my organization and I almost lost a ton of days when I started using it for work notes. So I switched to Evernote, which is supported. As soon as my org starts supporting One Note, which or plans to do, I will be switching back. OneNote not only has the page feature, it also allows you to type or handwrite anywhere on the page--just like in a paper notebook. It's so great! Evernote catch up and I can stay with you.

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Unfortunately we can only have 3 levels of organization:

"Pile of notebooks > notebooks > notes"

This is a big problem for me. Thats the specific point i cant use evernote for everything. I cant understand why we cant have the option to create more levels

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I am organizing my EN-Notebooks via STACKS. Stacks usually are based on anchor topics under which I organize particular notebooks (threads). Over time, for me it became apparent that it would help if there were the possibility of a >STACK Hierarchy< meaning >a stack in a stack in a stack< .... the depth of 3 would be my best guess.... after that it gets hard (at least for me) to manage oversight.

Appreciate your consideration.

h-o-m-a

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3 hours ago, h-o-m-a said:

it would help if there were the possibility of a >STACK Hierarchy< meaning >a stack in a stack in a stack< .... the depth of 3 would be my best guess

I've merged your post with the discussion for Notebook hierarchy.  
Stacks were never implemented as a defined entity and a stack hierarchy is impossible
(a stack with no notebooks doesn't exist) 

Currently, the only hierarchy supported is the Tags feature, with an unlimited hierarchy

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16 hours ago, FigueiredoLuis said:

Unfortunately we can only have 3 levels of organization:

"Pile of notebooks > notebooks > notes"

This is a big problem for me. Thats the specific point i cant use evernote for everything. I cant understand why we cant have the option to create more levels

Notebooks can be organized into stacks   
For unlimited organization levels, use the Tags feature

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This has turned into a never ending cycle of "we want this thing", "you can't do that thing but you can do this thing", "No, that's not the same thing at all, I want the thing done properly", " no, you can't do that but you can do this", "face palm"

 

It's just insane that so many people have asked for a decent hierarchy in Evernote, only to be told that they don't really when actually, they do and it's not an ureasonable thing to ask. So I[m going to cut myself off from this discussion before the sheer stupidity of it explodes my head.

 

Byby.

 

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5 hours ago, kimaldis said:

It's just insane that so many people have asked for a decent hierarchy in Evernote

@h-o-m-a is a new user to the forums, and seems unaware of the Evernote feature-sets 
The user is asking for assistance in using levels of organization

>>So I'm going to cut myself off from this discussion before the sheer stupidity of it explodes my head.

And others will continue to assist users with their inquiries

 

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5 hours ago, kimaldis said:

This has turned into a never ending cycle of "we want this thing", "you can't do that thing but you can do this thing", "No, that's not the same thing at all, I want the thing done properly", " no, you can't do that but you can do this", "face palm"

 

It's just insane that so many people have asked for a decent hierarchy in Evernote, only to be told that they don't really when actually, they do and it's not an ureasonable thing to ask. So I[m going to cut myself off from this discussion before the sheer stupidity of it explodes my head.

 

Byby.

 

100% this. We know what we need and we know what we're asking for. It's possible. Very unclear why Evernote won't deliver.

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2 hours ago, mpmahone said:

100% this. We know what we need and we know what we're asking for.

There is a request posted at the top of the discussion.  To indicate your support, use the voting button at the top left corner

Discussion is not required

>>It's possible.

Agreed, it's quite do-able;    
Evernote has already implemented a hierarchy with the tags feature, the same technique can be used for notebooks 

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19 minutes ago, DTLow said:

And others will continue to assist users with their inquiries

By answering qeustions that have been asked and ansered dozens and dozens of times. It's a waste of time and it's poor forum etiquette. Most forums you wouldn't get away with it.

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5 minutes ago, kimaldis said:

By answering qeustions that have been asked and ansered dozens and dozens of times. It's a waste of time and it's poor forum etiquette. Most forums you wouldn't get away with it.

From the forum Code of Conduct

  1. Do not chastise new users/newbies for asking questions or posting comments that may already be answered elsewhere. We get new users in the forums every day.
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In fact this is the feature i miss in evernote.
I waitied and hesitated more than six months to move from OneNote to Evernote only because Evernote does not have this feature.
But due to OneNotes non-userfirendly mobile app, finally i had to move to Evernote. Since then I have been longing for this feature.
Now, the moment I get this from RELANOTE, I will defintely jump out unless Evernote bring this Sub-Folder features very quickly.

 

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2 hours ago, Abu.Aabdullah.Ahsan said:

In fact, this is the feature (more Sub-Folders of NoteBooks) i miss in evernote for last 3 years.
I waitied and hesitated more than six months to move from OneNote to Evernote only because Evernote does not have this feature.
But due to OneNotes non-userfirendly mobile app, finally i had to move to Evernote. Since then I have been longing for this feature.
Now, the moment I get this from RELANOTE, I will defintely jump out unless Evernote bring this Sub-Folder features very quickly.

I stuck with Evernote for almost 3 years waiting for this to arrive, then I found Nimbus Note imported everything from Evernote and switched over. Annoyingly I still have to use Evernote as I have an Evernote scanner but cancelled my premium account. This thread was started well over 10 years ago now, this is just never going to happen, I feel sorry for everyone who has stressed their frustration and the response on the forums has always been the same. You are wrong you don't need subfolders, tags is amazing, its so sad when a company lectures their customers instead of actually listening. I had an issue with Nimbus a while back, emailed them and got a response back straight from the development team, was fixed a few weeks later services just does note compare with Evernote!!!

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1 hour ago, x9sim9 said:

the response on the forums has always been the same. You are wrong you don't need subfolders, tags is amazing, its so sad when a company lectures their customers instead of actually listening.

I think the response is correct - subfolders aren't absolutely necessary for everyone - I manage 50,000+ notes happily within this current system.

But some users clearly feel that they're essential to their particular workflow,  which is perfectly reasonable - except that Evernote never has had subfolders and has never suggested that subfolders will be available in future.  It's fair enough to request that a new feature be added,  but whether or when that gets done is up to the company. It's entirely their choice.

As to lecturing users,  Evernote -as is their normal position- has never made any comment about whether subfolders are good or bad,  other than for one of their employees to point out that the design structure of the base database prevents them from adding a hierarchy in the same format as a tag hierarchy. 

Evernote currently service a community of users something like twice the population of Mexico spread around the world.  Changing the structure of a database in daily use by so many would be like changing the tyres on one race car while it's fully committed to overtaking another.

Ironically Evernote are (they say) in process of completely re-coding all of their apps for all operating systems (See the Evernote Blog), so they may have already included some feature upgrades. But they don't preview details, so we'll probably have to wait until the new versions hit the streets to see what new features exist.

...And while new players in this market with way fewer users can react to individual comments,  Evernote simply have too many users to respond individually - hence this forum.

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5 hours ago, x9sim9 said:

its so sad when a company lectures their customers instead of actually listening. ...subfolders...

I don't see Evernote "lecturing", but it's true the product doesn't support folders/subfolders
Users requiring this legacy methodology should be looking at other products   
fwiw  Some users emulate folders and subfolders using the notebook/tag trees

I merged these posts with the primary discussion for this feature

There's a story about Henry Ford not listening to customers - they were asking for faster horses   

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In reading the Posts in the subject of Sub-Notebooks / Nested Notebooks I noticed that these requests go back to 2006/2008 with little if any response from Evernote. I hate tags. They don't work and they are a pain to try and use. They don't work for me. I've tried. It isn't logical and doesn't make sense. I need to be able to see and move around in the hierarchy so that I can properly manage my content. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for Evernote personnel to understand that we all have different needs and ways of doing things and thus Evernote shouldn't seek the lowest common denominator, but rather EN should seek to expand OUR options so that Evernote becomes more flexible and tolerant of it's customers needs. 

My need is to have are as follows. Hopefully someone at Evernote will respond with a respectful,  customer-centric answer

Folder one with Subject name 

+1. Manuscripts = Folder

         +1. Non-Fiction = Folder

               +1. Coding = Folder

                        +1. PHP = Folder

                                   +1. Custom Reference = Folder

                                           Form Handling = Document

                                           Functions = Document

                                           OOP = Document

                       + 2. Javascript

                                   +1. Notes

                        +3. Python

                       + 4. React

                        +5. JQuery

                        +6. JSON

                        +7. MongoDB

                        +8. Ruby

        + 2. Fiction = Folder

                  +1. Literary = Folder

                          + 1.Titles = Folder

                                  +1. Cold Springs Farm = Folder

                                        +1.Characters = Folder

                                           + 1. Charlotte Parker = Folder

                                                        Backstory = Document

                                                        Personality traits and descriptions  = Document

                                            +2. Raymond Stiles

                                        +2. Locations

                                             +1. Cold Springs Farm

                                             +2. Parker County Court house

                                      

                                  +2. The Lighter Side of Death   

                           +2. Reference

                   +Genre

                          +SciFi

                          +Thriller

                          +Fantasy

                          +Romance

 

If there is a way I can see this type of visualization with TAGS, and since I've paid, someone at EN can tutor me in how to use tags to achieve this visualization of the nested folders, then by all means please show me how to do it. Otherwise, nested folders are what is called for and is what I need. 

Thanks 

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7 hours ago, tommy@tommybalassa.com said:

I need to be able to see and move around in the hierarchy so that I can properly manage my content.

Not a function I need, but the notebook/tag trees should be useful

>>I hate tags. They don't work and they are a pain to try and use. They don't work for me. I've tried. It isn't logical and doesn't make sense. 

Notebooks and Tags are two fields in a note's metadata   
I successfully make use of both fields

Tags are Evernote's primary tool for organization   
I see advantages    
- multiple assignments to notes        
- hierarchy for unlimited levels   
- 100,000 limit

 

I merged your post with the primary discussion for this feature   
To indicate your support, use the vote button at the top left corner of the discussion

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Can we have sections in the notebook...?

Like for example there is a topic of say "Chess" and I've some classifications like Journal of ChessLog of my activities, some tactics study, some foundational study, books on chess and my notes on them and so on... As of now If I put them all in one notebook these are gonna get a lot messy - I can use tags but they do not completely serve the purpose... another way is to create a stack of notebooks and create one notebook for each of the mentioned sections... but there's a certain form of hierarchy where a few sections can be clustered into a single notebook which I will have to struggle from within the stack... Having sections IMHO will enhance a better clustering of notes...

It's a feature request...and not something that is totally a blocker. 

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13 hours ago, iamjd said:

Can we have sections in the notebook...?

Requested many times.  Search for nested notebooks and put your vote there.

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13 hours ago, iamjd said:

Can we have sections in the notebook...?

Evernote supports two levels of organization for notebooks; Stacks > Notebooks   
For unlimited organization levels, Evernote supports Tags and hierarchy

I merged your post with the ongoing  request discussion

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Just want to add to this thread again to bring some more notice to it but nested notebooks would be so very helpful. Most people have multiple areas of their lives and it would be nice to organize our notes based on those areas. In our daily lives we might have notebooks for different occasions, but I wouldn't carry all of them to every event. I would put my school related notebooks in a backpack, and my work related notebooks at my office desk, my notebooks for doodling would be in a crafts cabinet, etc etc. With the current layout we just aren't able to organize as much as we would be with Microsoft word documents in folders on a computer. Just as an example of how I would use this, if I had this functionality I would organize my notes similarly to this: 

School 

     Stats

          Homework Notes

          Class Notes

     DatabaseDesign

          Class Notes

          Lab Notes

          Homework Notes

     Government Class 

          Class Notes

          Homework Notes

     Archived School

          2020

               Spring

          2019 

               Spring

               Fall

          2018

               Spring

               Fall

Work

     Meeting Notes

          Weekly Team Meeting

               8/25/2020

               8/17/2020

    Software Packaging

          Training

               MSI/MST 

               EXE Packaging

               .Jav Packaging

... 

This would make evernote so much more productive. I agree that Tags are super handy, but don't completely add this functionality. 

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6 hours ago, umtpro said:

Most people have multiple areas of their lives and it would be nice to organize our notes based on those areas

Evernote's primary organization tool is the Tags feature.    
It supports a hierarchy with unlimited levels

>>With the current layout we just aren't able to organize as much as we would be with Microsoft word documents in folders on a computer

Word documents can be stored as note attachments      
Some users emulate folders using the notebook/tag trees

>>I agree that Tags are super handy, but don't completely add this functionality

imho Notebooks don't completely add this functionality; tags are a better tool

>>nested notebooks would be so very helpful

There is a request posted at the top of the discussion   
To indicate your support, use the vote button at the top left corner

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Another vote for this feature. It seems clear to me that Evernote will never make this available, and they don't care how many customers they lose. I'm a paying customer, and I'm leaving because of this. Notejoy, Nimbus Note, OneNote and a host of others let you nest about as much as you want. Even 1 extra level of nesting from Evernote, and I'd stay because their web clipper is by far the best. Still, it's easier to work around the web clipper issues with another product (and hope it develops the features I need eventually) than deal with not having nested notebooks.

Nested folders are how we have all learned to use computers. Search fails if you can't remember the exact words, so effective browsing will always be necessary. And that needs at least one more level of subcategorization than Evernote is apparently willing to give. I don't get it.

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9 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

Another vote for this feature. It seems clear to me that Evernote will never make this available, and they don't care how many customers they lose. I'm a paying customer, and I'm leaving because of this. Notejoy, Nimbus Note, OneNote and a host of others let you nest about as much as you want. Even 1 extra level of nesting from Evernote, and I'd stay because their web clipper is by far the best. Still, it's easier to work around the web clipper issues with another product (and hope it develops the features I need eventually) than deal with not having nested notebooks.

Nested folders are how we have all learned to use computers. Search fails if you can't remember the exact words, so effective browsing will always be necessary. And that needs at least one more level of subcategorization than Evernote is apparently willing to give. I don't get it.

That obsolete paradigm is used by OneNote, those who need it are not Evernote customers. If you can classify things thoroughly before capturing them, you just chose the wrong tool. I want to capture quickly without thinking what folder should I choose first. Or putting new notes to inbox and sorting them manually later. For effective browsing I learned advanced search in Evernote and it helps a lot. I only wish they wouldn't discontinue search by geolocation. 

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23 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

It seems clear to me that Evernote will never make this available, and they don't care how many customers they lose

Evernote have never given any indication of approval or otherwise.  One of their techs has commented that adding a hierarchy to their current structure is IMPOSSIBLE,  so I don't think they can do anything about losing customers for the moment.  There is however a major restructuring going on which may improve things from your point of view.  Meantime I'm managing to maintain a database of 51,000 notes and I can find what I need,  when I need it, with very little difficulty. 

If you don't get on with the flat database style though,  that's fine - there are lots of options for you.

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46 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

Nested folders are how we have all learned to use computers. Search fails if you can't remember the exact words, so effective browsing will always be necessary.

Evernote has no support for folders      
- the organization tools are notebooks and tags (note metadata fields)   
For "effective browsing", try using the notebook/tag trees

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21 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Evernote have never given any indication of approval or otherwise.  One of their techs has commented that adding a hierarchy to their current structure is IMPOSSIBLE,  so I don't think they can do anything about losing customers for the moment.  There is however a major restructuring going on which may improve things from your point of view.  Meantime I'm managing to maintain a database of 51,000 notes and I can find what I need,  when I need it, with very little difficulty. 

If you don't get on with the flat database style though,  that's fine - there are lots of options for you.

This is helpful. I didn’t realize it was impossible, and that clarifies things. There are lots of other options, but most of them are from startups that may prove no more stable than Evernote has been in recent years. 

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48 minutes ago, olek3a said:

I only wish they wouldn't discontinue search by geolocation. 

I wasn't aware of any plans to discontinue this   
Can you explain how you use "search by geolocation"
The search documentation has this2037317382_ScreenShot2020-09-08at11_05_16AM.png.4055d26fb283586588e5879f9a667859.png

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14 hours ago, DTLow said:

I wasn't aware of any plans to discontinue this   
Can you explain how you use "search by geolocation"
The search documentation has this2037317382_ScreenShot2020-09-08at11_05_16AM.png.4055d26fb283586588e5879f9a667859.png

I meant the user-friendly Atlas UI. Those search attributes I would use only in desperate need. I can't remember all my 'POI's, so I would need to check a map first for that.

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What a long discussion... been going on for years. There's clearly a user desire for nested Notebooks beyond the current 2 levels. And there's clearly technical reasons Evernote can't offer the feature. Stalemate!

Tags can work as a substitute, but require rigorous maintenance. You can't just create a tag off the top of your head and... forget it. Do that often enough, you won't find your special tree in the forest.

My solution is to use the Stacks and Notebooks for Big Topic areas. Then I use tags to emulate the menu structure below the Notebook level.

I have two gigantic tag hierarchies:

My business tags are all A-Z alphanumeric: A0000 to (theoretically) Z0000. So... > C0600 Insurance > C0603 Medical.

Non-business tags start numeric: 1...99. So... > 20 Investments > 21 Software setup.

It takes some discipline to keep it clean, but it's all I can do to keep thousands of Notes from getting lost.

I'd still like to see nested folders, which would simplify the vast number and rigid structure of my tag system.

 

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On 3/11/2020 at 11:21 PM, Ian Small said:

1) I would be legitimately interested in understanding what others think the difference between these two things are.  To me (admittedly, not having read the entirety of this 11-year-long forum discussion because I think the general drift is right there in the discussion thread title), they seem at first blush to be the same.  Note:  I think this is a question solely about notebooks, not about tags.

2) When we get on the other side of this huge lift we are in the middle of, I look forward to moving on to dealing with issues like putting this 11-year-long forum discussion to bed.  Not next week, not next month, but certainly not taking another 11 years to get there...  That's the kind of thing we're trying to free ourselves up to do - provide functionality improvements that are made impossible by the knots our current infrastructure and app layer has us tied up in.  But right now it's one thing at a time, and this first thing we're tackling is proving to be a difficult beast to tame.  Apparently, there's something to that thing they used to say on the Bugs Bunny / Road Runner Show:  "Watch that first step... it's a big one."

Back to lurking
ian

Hi Ian,

To me, notebooks are for browsing and tags are for search. I use EN for lots of web clippings as well as notes, so people don't always use the same name for things. Yesterday I needed to find all my notes and clippings about the "meta description tag", but some of them didn't come up in search because the authors had called it "the "description" meta tag" or other ways of saying the same thing. And I hadn't tagged the articles "meta description" at the time I saved them, because that hadn't been the focus of those notes at that point.

So I went to one of your competitors, where I'd recently imported my Evernote to give it a try. I had made nested notebooks the way I wish I could in Evernote, and all my HTML notes were in a sub-notebook that had few enough notes that I could browse and find the notes I was after.

This feature - plus the ability to custom sort notebooks in the sidebar - is so important to me that I've tried a lot of competitors who offer it. All of them lack something I really like from EN, but then EN lacks two features I really need, so I'm going to have to make a choice.

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5 hours ago, lemonsalt said:

notebooks are for browsing and tags are for search.

Browsing???     
Does that mean navigating using the notebook tree in the sidebar?    
Is there a reason "browsing" can't use the tag tree?
 

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17 hours ago, DTLow said:

Browsing???     
Does that mean navigating using the notebook tree in the sidebar?    
Is there a reason "browsing" can't use the tag tree?
 

No, it means browsing through each individual note in the notebook. Skimming the content of each note, which is much easier when you have 12 notes in a subnotebook than when you have hundreds in a more general notebook.

I'm anticipating someone will next ask why I don't have hundreds of notebooks in stacks to break it all down. I used to, but a lot of the stacks were too similar and it made things confusing. I research hundreds of topics a year, and I find a nested directory structure much more efficient for my brain to find things it only vaguely recalls.

It seems clear from this thread that EN could now add the nested notebooks due to the recent changes in the base code, but they still don't understand why it's important to some of us, and that's why I've replied here. Seeing that EN doesn't get it, but Nimbus Note, Notejoy, Notion and OneNote do, I accept that it's time to cancel my subscription and move to one of the others.

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22 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

No, it means browsing through each individual note in the notebook. Skimming the content of each note,

Same question, why not "browsing through each individual note in the notebook tag"
given that notebooks and tags are two fields in the note metadata

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2 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Same question, why not "browsing through each individual note in the notebook tag"
given that notebooks and tags are two fields in the note metadata

Again, I hadn't tagged the notes with "meta description" when making them because that wasn't the focus of them at that point. So which tag would I have browsed? Looking now, I see quite a few that could have the notes I needed, and it still adds up to skimming hundreds of notes.

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20 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

So which tag would I have browsed?

Here's an example; Notebook "Recipes"
                               or Tag "Recipes"

If I want to browse my recipes notes, I would browse tag "Recipes" 
 

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

Same question, why not "browsing through each individual note in the notebook tag"
given that notebooks and tags are two fields in the note metadata

As I said, the various relevant tags in this case included hundreds of notes to skim. Maybe I’m the only EN a user trying to find specific articles I only vaguely recollect. Maybe this is a researcher thing, and EN is for people who live their lives from project to project at work or school, who will finish a project and never need to see the notes for that project again. But I need to be able to retrieve specific  notes and web clippings I saw years ago, and more hierarchy is helpful. That’s why computers were designed with directories within directories - that’s how researchers, librarians and academics classify information. I get that EN isn’t for me and doesn’t want to be for me, so I will find another tool. 

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5 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

That’s why computers were designed with directories within directories - that’s how researchers, librarians and academics classify information.

Agreed that's how paper filing worked,  which - I believe - simply got translated into computer folders and sub folders at the time.  Alternative ways to index information now exist,  but some users are happy with those,  and others are not.  It's best though to go with what you know - as you've already indicated is your intention.

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8 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

That’s why computers were designed with directories within directories

There's no support for directories in Evernote   
We only have the Notebook and Tag fields    
Tags are the primary organization tool, with unlimited levels (hierarchy)

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43 minutes ago, DTLow said:

There's no support for directories in Evernote   
We only have the Notebook and Tag fields    
Tags are the primary organization tool, with unlimited levels (hierarchy)

Obviously notebooks are analogous to directories. Didn’t realize that needed to be spelled out. 

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17 minutes ago, lemonsalt said:

Obviously notebooks are analogous to directories. Didn’t realize that needed to be spelled out. 

That's not correct   
Notebooks, like Tags are simply fields in the note metadata

Directories, also known as Folders, are a legacy filing methodology   
Some users emulate directories/folders using the notebook/tag trees

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2 hours ago, lemonsalt said:

But I need to be able to retrieve specific  notes and web clippings I saw years ago, and more hierarchy is helpful.

In my view text search is the key differentiation for EN.  Whether one is a tagger or a notebooker or neither search in EN works great for finding that elusive note, in All Notes context or whatever.  Type in a couple key words and see what appears.  More than once structure has failed me and text search has saved me.  My structure is tags.  FWIW.

Edited by CalS
Clarify text search
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4 minutes ago, DTLow said:

That would be Text search   
which differs from note lists generated by Notebook/Tag search

So amended.

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20 hours ago, CalS said:

In my view text search is the key differentiation for EN.  Whether one is a tagger or a notebooker or neither search in EN works great for finding that elusive note, in All Notes context or whatever.  Type in a couple key words and see what appears.  More than once structure has failed me and text search has saved me.  My structure is tags.  FWIW.

I've clearly explained why EN search is perfectly useless and won't explain it to you again. You seem to have all day to spend on these forums, because you're in every thread about notebook hierarchy, arguing that tags should be just fine. It's not just us. I don't have the kind of time you appear to, because I've got to move everything over to Nimbus Note today and get away from the timesuck that is EN and its user forums. Enjoy having the last word.

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2 hours ago, lemonsalt said:

I've clearly explained why EN search is perfectly useless and won't explain it to you again. You seem to have all day to spend on these forums, because you're in every thread about notebook hierarchy, arguing that tags should be just fine. It's not just us. I don't have the kind of time you appear to, because I've got to move everything over to Nimbus Note today and get away from the timesuck that is EN and its user forums. Enjoy having the last word.

WOW.  Good luck.  Good last word, luck.

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2 hours ago, lemonsalt said:

I've clearly explained why EN search is perfectly useless and won't explain it to you again. You seem to have all day to spend on these forums, because you're in every thread about notebook hierarchy, arguing that tags should be just fine. It's not just us. I don't have the kind of time you appear to, because I've got to move everything over to Nimbus Note today and get away from the timesuck that is EN and its user forums. Enjoy having the last word.

Quite funny, actually.  DTLow has spent years on this thread, which I monitor in the forlorn hope that EN will mature someday to the point of giving us the MS-DOS state of the art in data organization.

The  pattern is always the same.  A user posts that they need hierarchical folders. DTLow immediately jumps in to explain to the benighted user why said user doesn't actually need what they need. Sometimes a little dialog ensues, then DTLow posts some kind of tag workaround that makes EN pretend to be something it isn't.  Then the user goes away.

I use EN only as a sort of ragbag, mostly containing web page clips.  I find things mostly with text searches.  My serious data is organized seriously, elsewhere.

There was a post a year or two from an EN employee developer who intimated that they were working on catching up with MS-DOS.  But nothing since.

 

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2 hours ago, Flier said:

A user posts that they need hierarchical folders. DTLow immediately jumps in to explain to the benighted user why said user doesn't actually need what they need.

Actually I will point out that Folders are not supported by Evernote and suggest work-arounds using the notebook/tag trees

>>state of the art in data organization

"State of the art" replaces folder methodology with tag methodology    
To enable this, Evernote provides two note metadata fields; Notebooks and Tags

>>MS-DOS

I remember MS-DOS; wasn't aware it was being widely used

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15 hours ago, MancChris said:

Simply put, I would find it very useful if Evernote could allow for a directory structure for organising notebooks and sub notebooks similar to how we can use folders and sub folders on Windows.

 At present, Evernote only allows a two level hierarchy for Notebooks.  This is implemented by grouping notebooks into Stacks

Please add your vote to the request above.  Voting buttons are in the top left corner of the discussion 

>>if I want to organise notes for writing a novel, I could call the main notebook 'Novel', and then have sub notebooks called 'characters', 'theme', etc.  Within 'Character'  I could then have sub-notebooks like 'David', 'Sarah', etc containing notes about those characters.

A work-around is to use a standard naming convention; for example

  • Novel
  • Novel - Characters
  • Novel - Characters - David
  • Novel - Characters - Sarah
  • Novel - Theme

 

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