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Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks


cswsteve

Idea

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It'd be cool if there was a way to organize/put notebooks within notebooks.  Like, for example-  the outer notebook is called Tree" and the other(s) are called "Branch" and "Leaf".  Like, if you were to click on the outer notebook, there would be its notes and the inner notebooks.  

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My subscription is running out in a few months. I never started using EN because I want separate large collections of data (flight plans in Flight Simulator notebook for example, which belongs to Games stack which belongs to Personal stack). I will definitely extend the subscription when this feature is available. The team is doing great job otherwise and I love your CEO.

Stack levels doesn't need to be infinite. 3 levels would be enough for most of ppl. 2 levels would be fine for me. 1 level is a no-go.

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One of the main reasons because I don't adopt Evernote completely as my main and only productivity tool, is because after the stacks and notebooks structure they lack the capacity of group folders or create sub folders under the notebook tree structure. 

 

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15 minutes ago, denysoft said:

capacity of group folders or create sub folders under the notebook tree structure. 

Agreed; Stacks and Notebooks are a poor tool to emulate group folders and sub folders
You'll notice Evernote supports two tree structures   
- Notebook tree    
- Tag tree

The Tag feature is Evernote's primary organization tool,   
and includes a hierarchy supporting unlimited levels   
I use Tags to emulate group folders and sub folders

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6 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Agreed; Stacks and Notebooks are a poor tool to emulate group folders and sub folders
You'll notice Evernote supports two tree structures   
- Notebook tree    
- Tag tree

The Tag feature is Evernote's primary organization tool,   
and includes a hierarchy supporting unlimited levels   
I use this tool to emulate group folders and sub folders

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but as a standard in the use of interfaces, when working with hierarchical structures, we are used to the use of folders and subfolders at different levels of the information hierarchy. Almost all competing Evernote apps have it built in. Thank you.

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8 minutes ago, denysoft said:

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but as a standard in the use of interfaces, when working with hierarchical structures, we are used to the use of folders and subfolders at different levels of the information hierarchy. Almost all competing Evernote apps have it built in. Thank you.

@denysoft, Evernote has been refusing to implement this feature for over a decade.  Apparently they sell enough software into their niche that they don't care about attracting a wider user base.  We are wasting out time even asking, as the response from EN zealots is always the same: a workaround using tags.  I continue to subscribe to this thread just in case lightning strikes, but without hierarchical folders EN will continue, for me, to be just a handy place for web clips.

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44 minutes ago, denysoft said:

we are used to the use of folders and subfolders at different levels of the information hierarchy

Evernote has no support for "folders and subfolders"    
We are provided Notebooks and Tags    
and can emulate folders with the notebook/tag tree structures

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On 8/17/2008 at 6:37 PM, engberg said:

We don't have sub-notebooks, but you can organize tags into a hierarchy. This may allow you to set up the organizational scheme you're looking for.

Not really the same thing. I use Paperless software on a Mac. It uses a hierarchical structure and also allows me to place a file into multiple folders if I choose. It's a very different experience than using hierarchical tags. I would use Paperless in a flash on other devices except there's no iOS version. I keep hoping for a good alternative. Unfortunately, Evernote isn't it, even though I've explore it several times (including trying out hierarchical tags).

I said earlier: it seems you're either a hierarchy person or a tag person ☹️

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26 minutes ago, HarveyBeck said:

Why would you assume it requires rebuilding everything from scratch? 

Adding a notebook hierarchy requires    
- a database update (notebook parent field)   
- update of the software

A significant undertaking, but not "from scratch"   
Evernote has already experience this process when they added the notebook stack field   

>>it seems you're either a hierarchy person or a tag person 

I'm a tagger    
I also make use of the hierarchy installed in the tag feature

Evernote has designed Tags as the primary organization tool; and Notebooks for other purposes

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The Paperless software looks more like a real DMS, so they put managing documents into the focus. Mac only, no iOS. It reminds me a little of DEVONthink, which is sort of in between. If it serves your needs, go with it.

EN uses tags to organize information in a flexible, multi-dimensional und if wanted hierarchical way, and that is it. Everybody’s darling is everybody’s fool - if you don’t like the way it is working, use another tool.

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While migrating all my contents from other Note taking apps to evermote, what I missed that within Stack their should be sub stack or down ward steps too. Eg. Suppose under Business stack I can put my different businesses, but here I missed the sub stack for these different businesses. Because under stack we can put various Notebooks  but not a sub stack.
As keeping stack under stack will clear the clutter with multiple stacks, thus organising lesser stacks only.

 Means under a Main stack more new sub stack can be added and under that Notebooks and then notes can be kept.
How the Stack Tree looks like:
Business(Primary Stack)
     Work 1(Sub stack) and more sub stacks can be added, just adding a + button near stack.
         Notebook
               Notes> tasks>Space for a mini note under task apart from Heading or title and a space for Attachements under task too, etc. Bit complicated but very very very useful.
        Work 2(Sub Stack 2)
            Notebook
                  Notes
        Work 3 (Sub Stack 3)
           Notebook
                 Notes

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Hi.  All due respect,  but wishing for more levels of stack or notebook  is like wishing for chocolate-flavour notes.  Evernote doesn't do that,  has never done that,  and while they haven't said they won't ever do that,  they haven't said they'd consider it either.  The only way to differentiate 'levels' is to go the route of stacks > notebooks > notes > titles | tags. 

Different businesses can have their own tags,  as can different activities and actions;  so August tax returns for Acme Industries can be found by tag:aug tag:tax tag:acme

Some folks here like to personalise tags rather more by something like Acme_tax or Acme_sales - and tags,  if you require it,  can be set up in an 'infinite' (or pretty deep anyway) parent-child level,  subject to the proviso that you can't duplicate tag names.  It's not possible to have 'aug' (for example) as a child of more than one parent.

There have been requests for some kind of hierarchical system of notes and sub-notes for 12 years - search the forums for a LOT more on the subject if you wish...

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2 hours ago, bhavesh025 said:

what I missed that within Stack their should be sub stack or down ward steps too.

I merged your post with an ongoing discussion for notebook hierarchy    
You're welcome to add your vote to the request   
  
Evernote's primary organization tool is the Tags feature   
Tags include a hierarchy for unlimited levels

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14 hours ago, gazumped said:

Hi.  All due respect,  but wishing for more levels of stack or notebook  is like wishing for chocolate-flavour notes.  Evernote doesn't do that,  has never done that,  and while they haven't said they won't ever do that,  they haven't said they'd consider it either.  The only way to differentiate 'levels' is to go the route of stacks > notebooks > notes > titles | tags. 

Different businesses can have their own tags,  as can different activities and actions;  so August tax returns for Acme Industries can be found by tag:aug tag:tax tag:acme

Some folks here like to personalise tags rather more by something like Acme_tax or Acme_sales - and tags,  if you require it,  can be set up in an 'infinite' (or pretty deep anyway) parent-child level,  subject to the proviso that you can't duplicate tag names.  It's not possible to have 'aug' (for example) as a child of more than one parent.

There have been requests for some kind of hierarchical system of notes and sub-notes for 12 years - search the forums for a LOT more on the subject if you wish...

Thanks for the Valuable feed back. Yes, have read other articles too about these hierarchical system demand from Evernote, and this is in demand from long back.  I have just joined the forum  and came to know about this demand but I think forums are made for this purpose only to provide your feedback on new features or any technical issues to the developer, now this is our feeling for a better and cosy system in an app or for an app. Hope they may feel these as a necessity or one has to mould as per the app or if he doesn't meet the required then better to shift to some other system or app.

I am using this app since 2012 but was not a active user due to this hierarchical system, but when they introduced stack and Task within the Note, with all tasks consolidating to a single Task page, made me shift all my notes from other apps to this app. And during this process I felt of Sub-Stack. 

Hope Developers may understand the need of time.

Thanks Gazumped.

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+1. While yes, you can do the same thing with tags.. it doesn't work for everything and is not as simple / good (I can explain if you'd like). At the end of the day.. this only serves as a BONUS, evernote. It helps your customers and brings in more people. What if evernote is a mostly stack > notebook notetaking app? it can always use sub notebooks. Those that prefer single hierarchy - no problem. Those that want more - there you go! Nothing is being removed. So do consider it. 

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5 minutes ago, Bluamasyu said:

is not as simple / good (I can explain if you'd like)

Please explain
afaik  Notebooks/Tags are two metadata fields in the Note record

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

Please explain
afaik  Notebooks/Tags are two metadata fields in the Note record

Shiiiit. I had a note written and now it's lost. Good work evernote xd. Here's what I wrote basically cuz I totally forgot and am really sad: I have a stack called resources, and under it there are subjects and languages. Psychology and Human Geography for example can be categorized under another stack, Social Sciences, and so can Spanish and Japanese under languages. I also have tech-based resources: Knowledge, Code, Setup, Sensitive. They can all USE additional hierarchy: Social Sciences, Languages, Tech, but its not so necessary that I need to make tags for it. Tags can be useful for those who have lots of notes & notebooks, but I put a lot of information into single notes that if I switched to tags, the layout would be practically the same as notebooks, with some using additional hierarchy (mostly resources), so then, why use two systems: notebooks and tags when you can use just one: notebooks. Additionally, the notebook view & ui is much better. If you collapse the left menu (which I highly recommend) hovering over notebooks will give you a better looking view than tags, which is smaller and is really there to be more accurate, to TAG (and quickly access) notes. This is best seen when after pressing a tag, it appears blue on the top. Basically telling you where exactly you've decided to land in your very big hierarchy, but with my layout it'll only mostly go up to two levels and that tag at the top is just unneeded. Stacks and Notebooks however is there to store the notes, and because I don't use much notes and know exactly where things are, I have no need for tags. I think it's the same for a lot of people.. Who either are not a fan of the tags view & ui in general, or have no major need for it.. We just want to further organize and clean our hierarchy. 

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You have not understood the basic difference between notebooks and tags: Notebooks are linear, one dimensional - the worse when layered, because they split information in ever smaller segments.

Tags allow multi dimensional access, transforming the structure into a network. Where hierarchical trees split information, the tags build a true metadata network that enriches it.

Maybe EN needs to work on the UI - they don’t need to work on the underlying concept. And if something is not worth creating a tag, it is for sure not worth creating a notebook !

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1 hour ago, Bluamasyu said:

if I switched to tags, the layout would be practically the same as notebooks

Agreed, I'm seeing the same thing; practically the same "layout"; with the option for more levels

Another difference is that multiple tags can be assigned to a note   
In your example, a note can be assigned "Human Geography" and "Knowledge"

>>so then, why use two systems: notebooks and tags

Notebooks have a special function in Evernote   
I use notebooks to identify notes as private/shared, online/local, offline

>>If you collapse the left menu (which I highly recommend)

I use a minimized sidebar   
The notebook/tag trees are easily displayed when needed

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35 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

You have not understood the basic difference between notebooks and tags: Notebooks are linear, one dimensional - the worse when layered, because they split information in ever smaller segments.

Tags allow multi dimensional access, transforming the structure into a network. Where hierarchical trees split information, the tags build a true metadata network that enriches it.

Maybe EN needs to work on the UI - they don’t need to work on the underlying concept. And if something is not worth creating a tag, it is for sure not worth creating a notebook !

It must be quite a burden to be smarter than everyone else.  But being so smart, it is a little surprising that you didn't notice that @Bluamasyu didn't actually ask for opinions on whether he needs hierarchical folders or not.

But that is the way it goes here.  Newbie says he needs hierarchical folders, one or two fanboys* jump in to tell him he does not, then one of them offers an ugly workaround that he believes solves the problem.  Then the fanboys lay in wait until the next person requests the feature.

Silly, really, that I have been subscribed to this thread for years.  Childlike faith, I guess, that EN product architects will finally recognize the marketing value of offering a product that is not as crippled as this one is.

*Second fanboy, the irrepressible DTLow jumped in as I was typing.  ROFL.

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The thread that lives on....  I think that most taggers, well me anyway, couldn't give a shite if EN adds nested notebooks or not.  The workarounds represent what is possible hierarchically with the current product as EN has not expressed an iota of interest in adding nested notebooks. 

The horse is dead until EN decides it isn't.  No matter the merits of the case which has been presented here so many times.  Not for me to judge the use case, I just know there doesn't seem to be anyone listening at EN.  Definition of insanity at this point.

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It really depends on the user. Some people have a lot of data, and link information between different tags, building a large network. Then, there are others who just group everything by notebooks, and don't need a network, which is why evernote should give them the option. Tags are for a purpose, separate from notebooks and are not a good replacement for notebooks. I understand the purpose of tags.. but I don't need it! It's extra annoyance, for the user to have to deal with tags as well as notebooks when they can fix everything with just nested notebooks. Having to add tags every time, dealing with UI that is different from notebooks, is just extra hassle for the user who doesn't use tags to link information BETWEEN DIFFERENT NOTEBOOKS. That's the purpose of tags here, and if the user is not going to be using them to do that then it's not the best solution. It really is unfortunate.. a request from 2008 so simple as this.. Though I guess that's cuz of the codebase previously. Evernote has the power to do great things in the notetaking market by introducing these wanted features, that literally do no harm to current users and only help those IN NEED of them as well as bring in more customers. Hopefully we can see some of these features soon. 

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1 hour ago, Bluamasyu said:

For a beginner.. what purpose do tags serve?

You might want to post this subject as a new topic for discussion

Tag/Notebook/Label methodology is the latest advancement in filing organization; replacing the legacy folder methodology

>>to label notes into different tags?

This is a requirement for me     
Few of my notes fit a single organization category

>>It's really simple.. what do you need? To find a book?

Subject and Author are useful tags

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@Bluamasyu Author, title, language, maybe you want to add a genre or an evaluation after you read the book, plus the year of reading. Or you have a Book shopping list, from where they go to a „waiting to read“ list.

All this is easy to build with tags, impossible to do with notebooks if you follow stringent rules. Tags give you all flexibility that notebooks don’t have.

About implementation: There is already a lot said about it in this thread. You can look it up. The answer is simple: Go ahead, it just means rebuilding EN from scratch - database, clients and most important the server side as well.

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9 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

@Bluamasyu Author, title, language, maybe you want to add a genre or an evaluation after you read the book, plus the year of reading. Or you have a Book shopping list, from where they go to a „waiting to read“ list.

All this is easy to build with tags, impossible to do with notebooks if you follow stringent rules. Tags give you all flexibility that notebooks don’t have.

About implementation: There is already a lot said about it in this thread. You can look it up. The answer is simple: Go ahead, it just means rebuilding EN from scratch - database, clients and most important the server side as well.

I do all of that in just a single note within a table. The notebook is books and the notes are books, manga, manhwa, manhua, novels. Tables are very powerful.. one just needs to make good use of them. I just open a note within books and have sections for Caught Up, Reading, Paused, Want To Read, Completed with information on book title, current page, where to read / buy, author, etc. Tags work, yes, but the same can be accomplished with notebooks and looks + functions even better.. within books note I could just ctrl + f author name for example. With tags, you would probably have to create a note for just one book.. that is very tiring and if you have different types of books, it can take a long time whereas storing everything within a single note allows you to know exactly where everything is. 

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43 minutes ago, Bluamasyu said:

storing everything within a single note allows you to know exactly where everything is. 

- Not sniping or objecting, but just to point out: storing everything within a single note also allows you to lose everything with one mistake or system glitch.  Also also: I use Calibre for book management - it does lots of nice specialised Librarian things that Evernote does not.

I doubt taggers will ever convince the folder-tree brigade that their system is better,  or vice-versa;  but the point remains that

  • Evernote doesn't (currently) do sub-notebooks
  • Until recently they didn't have the technical ability to do sub-notebooks (looking at you you v10!)
  • It looks probable that conversion to sub-levels would be a major project.
  • Evernote already has a lot of tidying up to do with its new software.
  • They have their own priorities to follow, and don't tend to share whether or not they're planning or working on specific features (check out the recent 'we're not increasing our prices' email!!)

The logical conclusion of which being:

  1. Sub-notebooks may or may not be coming at some unspecified future time. 
  2. If you can't live without them - find another solution for your workflow.
  3. If you can manage within the existing software,  please get on with your life!

Personally I probably wouldn't use sub-notebooks,  but I have no objection whatsoever to others having that option should they wish.  They clearly would be popular,  because users have been banging on this subject for 13 years. 

- Maybe this year will be your lucky year!

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I always, always wonder why people choose to employ a certain software for their uses, invest a tremendous amount of work and effort into it - and ignore all the available (!) free (!) advise covering a trillion of use cases and best practices.

The advise is NOT all the same, because for different use cases the approach needs to be different. And different approaches can serve one use case - this is not baked in steel either. A good software (like EN) is flexible enough to support this multiverse of uses.

But there is a limit, where creative use ends and stupid use begins. This is where main elements of „how to do things“ are ignored, or when even trying to override key software functions just because they get into the way of „doing it differently“.

One day these users come here, still ignorant of simple facts and tell „the world“ the software devs did everything wrong, they know it all better and the devs just need to start from scratch.

Is it really that difficult ?

No, I do not mean anybody here in special, just generally speaking.

OK, frustration OFF.

P.S. And if EN after trying and taking advise still is not up to the job, then maybe it is simply not the right tool for the job. Then move on, there is most likely another tool better suited to help you solve your problem.

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54 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

...One day these users come here, still ignorant of simple facts ...

Oh, wise one, please enlighten us about these simple facts.  Possibly you can save the world from its abysmal ignorance.  Also, please tell us how you manage to remain so humble given your obvious superiority to mere users.

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If you would read the thread, you could know why nesting won’t work without rewriting the database, the clients and the server software (= creating a whole new app).

You would find enough examples of what I wrote about uses and use cases. No problem if you don’t find it, I will just assume you didn’t even try.

If you want notebook nesting and can’t live without it, very simple: Move on to another app.

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What will happen? Someday the - for EN - unexpected will happen and there'll be someone who creates a TRUE alternative... myspace is dead, instagram tries not to go down the same alley, too - like in my industry, Leica, Olympus and other brands didn't see the signs and didn't reacted... so let them refuse to hear their users... this is like buildiing up a huuuuuuge pressure of frustration which will - maybe someday - make the EN-Bubble disappear...

 

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26 minutes ago, Christian H. Klein said:

What will happen? Someday the - for EN - unexpected will happen and there'll be someone who creates a TRUE alternative... myspace is dead, instagram tries not to go down the same alley, too - like in my industry, Leica, Olympus and other brands didn't see the signs and didn't reacted... so let them refuse to hear their users... this is like buildiing up a huuuuuuge pressure of frustration which will - maybe someday - make the EN-Bubble disappear...

 

I prefer to deal with now and the real world.  The situation is what it is;  you need to deal with it or leave.  There are no other choices...  (unless you can create your own app....🤔)

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On 7/15/2021 at 9:17 AM, PinkElephant said:

If you would read the thread, you could know why nesting won’t work without rewriting the database, the clients and the server software (= creating a whole new app).

You would find enough examples of what I wrote about uses and use cases. No problem if you don’t find it, I will just assume you didn’t even try.

If you want notebook nesting and can’t live without it, very simple: Move on to another app.

There is no such thing as cant in software development just EGO and LAZINESS. I think we can guess which one is being used in these forums...

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1 hour ago, x9sim9 said:

There is no such thing as cant in software development ...

Agreed, Evernote has implemented a hierarchy for the tag feature,      
and would be able to implement a similar hierarchy for notebooks

imho None of the posts have provided a convincing argument that Evernote needs two organization hierarchies

Many of the posts indicate confusion with folder methodology which is not supported in Evernote,     
and is a different discussion topic

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27 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Agreed, Evernote has implemented a hierarchy for the tag feature,      
and would be able to implement a similar hierarchy for notebooks

None of the posts have convinced me that Evernote needs two organization hierarchies   

Many of the posts indicate confusion with folder methodology which is not supported in Evernote, and is a different discussion topic

And users are somehow obligated to convince you?  You are the Grand Poobah?  Perhaps you are simply not smart enough to understand.  That would be my conjecture.

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33 minutes ago, Flier said:

And users are somehow obligated to convince you?

No obligation to convince me   
I am a user of Evernote's organization tools,   
with no authority as to Evernote design decisions   
I apologize for any confusion

I have edited the post to "provided a convincing argument" and identified this as a personal opinion

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Hello,

I'd like to submit a feature request. I understand that Evernote has provided a way to organise user notebooks into "stacks", but I find myself in situations where I need to create a stack within a stack. For example, I organise news clips into different notebooks, under the stack "News Clips", but there are times where I would love to have the ability to create subcategories under each notebook. Under "News Clips", I might have Financial News, Politics, Local etc...I would like to have the feature of placing Futures News, Stocks News, Crypto News and Options News under Financial News. At the moment user can only create a single "stack" tree. It would be great to be able to create multiple sub stacks under a major stack. 

Thanks for reading!

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Nesting of information on the notebook side has only 3 levels: note, notebook, stack.

If you want more levels, use tags. These can practically be nested indefinitely.

Personally I don’t think it is a good idea to create such strict, rigid structures. Tagging IMHO is better applied in a broad sense, not in a massively nested way.

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On 8/28/2021 at 11:52 PM, AlbKatYuYu said:

I'd like to submit a feature request. I understand that Evernote has provided a way to organise user notebooks

I merged your request with an ongoing discussion   
To indicate support, use the vote button at the top left corner of the discussion

>>For example, I organise news clips into different notebooks

Evernote's primary organization tool is the Tags feature   
Tags support a parent-child hierarchy, offering unlimited levels

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18 hours ago, ariaza said:

Can you create a notebook and then create sub notebooks?

Hi.  No.  Stacks can contain multiple notebooks,  Notebooks contain notes,  Notes contain pretty much anything you can throw at them;  but that's it.  Tags on the other hand can be  nested as deeply as you require.

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"Can you create a notebook and then create sub notebooks?"

I was so close to pulling the trigger for a year long subscription today, until i found out the simplest of features is not even available and we are to use some work around with TAGS? like seriously? its 2021, why aren't we presented with both features and given the choice to chose? if you told me that was a feature for even business users i might have paid extra for it. Anyways, thanks for your free service, as i may use it sparingly until "sub-stacked" notebooks feature comes along. Until then, its NOTION for me. i was really hoping for a rock solid OneNote alternative, oh well. Cheers and keep at it guys! 

 

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If you don't find what you get, the product is not for you.

Ever heard "Everybody's darling is everybody's fool" ?

I prefer EN to do very good what they do, instead of having as mess of organisational tools, one contradicting the other. Tagging works for me, much better that nested stuff would do. How do I know ? Just need to look at the folder trees of my computers OS to know the problems and limits of this method to set up things.

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18 hours ago, Shane M. said:

we are to use some work around with TAGS?

Not so much a work-around; but definitely different names
Both Notebooks and Tags are fields in the note metadata
Personally, I'm not hung up on the fieldname   

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38 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

If you don't find what you get, the product is not for you.

Ever heard "Everybody's darling is everybody's fool" ?

I prefer EN to do very good what they do, instead of having as mess of organisational tools, one contradicting the other. Tagging works for me, much better that nested stuff would do. How do I know ? Just need to look at the folder trees of my computers OS to know the problems and limits of this method to set up things.

So you're not very good with nested folders, hence EN should not offer the option?  I have literally hundreds of tools, some of which  I use very seldom (Posidrv ***** drivers and Whitworth wrenches, for example.)  That does not mean that I think they should not be sold.  I am  just not that arrogant.

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7 minutes ago, Flier said:

nested folders

Evernote has no support for folder methodology; we get two metadata fields - Notebooks and Tags

Users can emulate folders with the Notebook/Tag trees in the sidebar

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First I would like to say that I love the direction that development has been going with the application.

With that said however, the ability to create sub-stacks (stacks within stacks) has been wanted by many users for YEARS!
I don't understand why this feature is either ignored or not created.
This is not an unreasonable request.

Whether stacks are logical or not does not matter to the end user.
For the organization of my content I need to have this feature.

I hope you consider creating this feature soon.

Best regards.

 

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32 minutes ago, xxiiSARGEiixx said:

sub-stacks (stacks within stacks)

I merged your post with the ongoing discussion for notebook hierarchy

fyi Evernote never implemented Stacks as an entity; it's a text field on the notebook record.  We will not see sub-stacks

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5 hours ago, xxiiSARGEiixx said:

I don't understand why this feature is either ignored or not created.

Because until this last several months it has not been technically possible to change the architecture of Evernote's database.  Same reason your TV does not make coffee.

5 hours ago, xxiiSARGEiixx said:

This is not an unreasonable request.

No.  it's not - but neither is this a request app.  Evernote is reacting to user feedback and needs across more than 200M accounts.  This development may be in a queue somewhere,  but it's not (AFAIK) a priority - yet.

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Hy Evernote's mates, 

I was thinking that it could be great to add multiple level of Notebooks. For exemple:

  • Customer
    • USA
      • To call
        • note 1
        • note 2
      • on contract 
        • note 1
        • note 2
      • not interested 
    • Switzerland

Like a usual folders that you can always put in another one by a hierarchic order

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This is one of the oldest requests, and I doubt it will be implemented. Building something like this would mean a complete redesign, not only of the clients but of the server platform as well.

You should look into the use of tags instead. 

Tags are the way how to organize information in EN. They can be nested as deep as you wish - however their magic is something different: They organize information in a non hierarchical way.

Taking your example, you create tags for the country, the customer type, the responsible sales person etc. And you create action tags, like call, visit, not_interested etc. You can then assign several tags, and you can shift them depending on the progress of the activities.

The note always stays in the same place - by changing tags you move things ahead.

You can apply filters to only see customers - say - to call (tag) now (tag this week) in Europe (tag, if you nested region-country). By saving searches you can automate your typical workflows - the search is always the same, but the notes that show up will be renewed based on their tags.

Compare this to your example with nested notebooks: It is impossible to see at once all customers on call status. Because the status is down on the 3rd level, you need to click through all levels to find these entries. With tags and (saved) searches, it is a few clicks, and you get them all on one page.

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On 9/15/2021 at 8:07 AM, Ghaeflig said:

Like a usual folders that you can always put in another one by a hierarchic order

Evernote has no support for Folder Methodology   
It uses Tag Methodology with two metadata fields (Notebooks, Tags)   

Some users emulate Folder Methodology by using the notebook/tag trees in the sidebar

As @PinkElephant mentioned, tags are the primary organization tool.  They are structured in a parent-child hierarchy, supporting unlimited layers

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In the tag view, when I add a new note - it creates somewhere else then I have to tag then I click to my tag again to navigate. If you are not going to add subnotebooks, just ad a new note button during tag view and create the note right then and there.

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I have wanted subfolders since I started using Evernote  - nearly from it first becoming available.  The lack of this functionality has been the top reason for me in the past to discontinue using it and not pay for a subscription for many years.  I am back now only because of the redesign that brought it closer to some of today's standards for look feel and user-friendliness but, more importantly, the calendar and task list. 

Please, I think we're begging, add a subfolder function.  Please, please, please!  

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2 hours ago, bobbic24 said:

I have wanted subfolders

Evernote has no support for organization with Folder Methodology   
Instead, Evernote supports Tag Methodology with two fields; Notebooks and Tag methodology is a superior method of organization (imho)

Users have emulated folders using the tag/notebook trees in the sidebar      
The tag tree supports unlimited levels of "subfolders"

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This feature would certainly be beneficial, especially for students in organising notes over the years. Now I am hindered in efficiently organising my notes by the restraints of the current limit of notebooks layers. For example, when I complete the first block of a four-block year, I only have one notebook for previous semesters. In which all the four blocks are located. Making this limitation worse is that every block consists of multiple courses with different components - lectures, readings, assignments and workgroups. Overall, the lack of this function severely limits my ability to keep my notebooks organised and recall notebooks.

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It may keep you away from organizing with notebooks, which is good - ENs main method of organizing notes is through tags, not through notebooks.

You need just one notebook (or not even this) called "Courses", everything else is done by adding tags. Like subject, semester, professor, and then control tags like archived, current, to learn, etc. The advantage of tagging has been described in abundance in this thread.

If you want a deep notebook structure (tree-type, tags create a network-style structure), use another program.

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1 hour ago, Arvid455 said:

I only have one notebook for previous semesters...
keep my notebooks organised and recall notebooks.

I would use separate notebooks    
For example, a naming structure like Calculus 2021-1

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On 12/12/2021 at 6:29 PM, DTLow said:

I would use separate notebooks    
For example, a naming structure like Calculus 2021-1

Now, I indeed take a similar approach. However I am not in favour of creating one Notebook per course or semester, as my Notebooks "stack" display will be viewing all my previous semesters, which looks messy and makes it harder to find specific notebooks due to the quantity of notebooks previewed on the Notebooks display , especially over time. Instead I just use a single stack called previous semester to counter that. As a result all those previous courses - with various separate elements as lectures, skillslabs and assignment -  from various semesters are unorganised in one overall Notebook stack, called 'previous semesters', in favour of a clean start up display of all my Notebooks.

 

In response to #enberg, I have been actively labelling the notes accordingly for two years and is useful to some extend. However, this method excludes visual navigation of some notebooks which be preferable some times, since the tag or name of the course is not always remembered on the long term. Visually going through notebooks in a logic matter, can counter this and would definitely be very beneficial to me. This does require multiple sub-stacks which Evernote has been unwilling to introduce.

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2 hours ago, Arvid455 said:

since the tag or name of the course is not always remembered on the long term. Visually going through notebooks in a logic matter ...

Does "visually going through" mean navigating the notebook tree?  
We can also "visually going through" the tag tree in a similar manner

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

Does "visually going through" mean navigating the notebook tree?  
We can also "visually going through" the tag tree in a similar manner

Indeed going through the notebook tree, this will work as there are relatively limited amount of notebooks within this sub-stack. If we would apply this trough the use of labels it will be significantly harder to do the same in an organised matter. Since one note can contain a lot of labels, for me this could be to first date general info as #University #semester 1 # year one # course name # block 2 #lecture 4 and then note specific ones as #international law #conflict #humanitarian law # China. Finding a specific note by "going through the tag tree" requires me to find the right tags which can be complicated if multiple notes can contain similar labels and will overall take more time.

 

Furthermore, I think this approach is counter intuitive, as I think generally humans organise information in a more visual matter. Therefore, the ability to organise information this way, by introducing sub-stacks, will make retrieving some information faster and reduce the amount of Notebooks in a singe stack, improving the overall organisation and clean appeal. The absence of the feature I am advocating for is one of my earliest frustrations with Evernote and hope this function will be introduced. Now, all my previous semesters/years are placed in one stack with notebooks that are layered by year, course, type of note (lecture, skills lab, readings and assignment) in a disorganised matter, one extra stack layer could mitigate this problem.

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53 minutes ago, Arvid455 said:

one extra stack layer could mitigate this problem.

I understand your viewpoint,  but the reality is that there are currently no extra Stack 'layers'.  You either need to find a way to discriminate between your notes within the current hierarchy,  or use a different provider.  There are unlikely to be any useful changes in this process available to users for at least 12 months.

I've attached a couple of links which may be helpful.

https://zapier.com/blog/how-to-use-tags-and-labels/#pc

https://medium.com/praxis-blog/how-to-use-evernote-for-your-creative-workflow-f048f0aa3ed1

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4 hours ago, Jts76 said:

To everyone that says: "Use tags, tags are the same thing."

I think you may have misread the posts here - the suggestion is that since there are currently only three levels of Stack > Notebooks > Notes,  plus titles and tags,  users need to find a way to use the current system or migrate to a different one.  It's pointless to argue about the relative benefits when some possible options are not available.  Nice pics though.  Happy New Year!

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Correct, it is a stack (cabinet), in it are notebooks (drawers), in which are notes (physical folders). A note in itself is a container, that can hold various types of information.

If that pile of information can be organized this way, I see no reason somebody can’t, and would need more.

What the drawer method can’t do: Organize information in several dimensions. Get me all „folders“ (= notes) from customers west coast, year 2018. OK, now get me all notes from customers who purchased product xyz together with abc. OK, now get me all sales made by John Doe while he was working here, to customers in Denver and Oklahoma. OK, now …

You could employ the whole company searching for the information if your archive is organized in a classical tree type, linear structure. Tags allow for a extensive logical structure, not stuck with organizing by customer, by region, by year, by product, by provider, by … tree type, no matter how you set it up, it will fail you.

The pictures may be nice (as many stock pics are), but they don’t prove anything.

I am quite confident THIS thread will not go silent in the next year - wish everybody a safe slide into 2022.

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5 hours ago, Jts76 said:

This is tags!   
This is multi-level notebooks!

You posted a picture of physical objects   
The "multi-level notebooks" was actually a picture of a filing cabinet and file folders

I could post a picture of physical notebooks

This discussion is about notes stored in a computer database   
Notebooks and Tags are metadata; fields in the note record

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Hi,

I would really like the feature of Stacks being able to have at least one more level, if not more.

For example, I have a stack titled "2022" and in it I have multiple notebooks. I would like to be able to put other notebooks under the notebook.

2022 > Daily Notes 2022 > BY MONTH WOULD BE GREAT HERE (January, February, etc.) so that I could keep the daily notes in the appropriate month.

Thank you for this consideration!

Tamara Walker

 

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23 hours ago, Tamara Walker said:

2022 > Daily Notes 2022 > BY MONTH WOULD BE GREAT HERE (January, February, etc.) so that I could keep the daily notes in the appropriate month.

Levels for stacks/notebooks is not currently supported in Evernote   

How about using   
2022 > Daily Notes - 01 January    > notes
          >  Daily Notes - 02 February  > notes 
          > etc.

Personally, my note titles are prefixed with yyyy-mm-dd-hh:mm    
I'm not concerned about stacks or notebooks

This discussion has been merged with the ongoing discussion for this topic   
To indicate support for the request, use the vote button at the top left corner of the discussion
 

 

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The original request was not asking if it were supported or how to implement...it was defined as an idea/feature request.  While I appreciate community responses on how they find ways of working around current limitations, my recommendation would be to end your response with just that. I too would like to see this feature implemented and do not particularly care for how others in the community organize their notes...I prefer to organize my notes differently and would love to see additional stack levels.

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1 hour ago, Litlelee9 said:

do not particularly care for how others in the community organize their notes

You can stop reading the discussion after the original posted request   
To indicate support for the request, use the vote button at the top left corner of the discussion

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52 minutes ago, DTLow said:

You can stop reading the discussion after the original posted request   
To indicate support for the request, use the vote button at the top left corner of the discussion

If you had simply supplied your recommendation to address a known limitation...I would have. However, you made the post about you and how you do things...and downplayed the original feature request...which was not necessary. . Again, I applaud you for providing your support and perspective on how you address a current limitation. But please keep an open mind...thats how services and platforms such as this (including the user community) continue to grow and improve. 

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New user - would appreciate if EN can update for Stacks within Stacks. Currently transferring data from another provider and a now have a long list of stacks/folders, which I would prefer to condense further.

Sync is reliable at least in comparison to my previous service.

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This thread is from 2008.

Since it was not implemented until now, here are your options:

  1. OK, it took them some time, but after 14 years it should be around the corner now
  2. Nah, if they did not do it in 14 years, they won‘t change it ever
  3. Don‘t know, but what are the alternatives ?

If you choose the 3rd option, you should take a look at tags. In EN tags are the main way of logically organizing information - they can be nested (if you wish), and you can apply several tags to one note, whereas a note can only be in 1 single notebook at any time.

My general notebook structure is pretty flat - roughly 20 notebooks. Much more tags - and while the notebooks stay the same (or are even getting less, by joining some), the tags are permanently growing

Notebooks are useful for other things - for example: I share a notebook with my wife for our recipes. Each of us puts new recipes in there, we automatically both have access to them. When cooking, which be both do, we add little tricks or improvements right into the note.

Or I share (temporarily) a notebook with my accountant with all the documents for the yearly tax declaration. It is much easier to set up a shared notebook than to share individual notes, one by one. But to find these documents, I use tags (in this case „Tax“ and „2022“, for this year).

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6 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

This thread is from 2008.

Since it was not implemented until now, here are your options:

  1. OK, it took them some time, but after 14 years it should be around the corner now
  2. Nah, if they did not do it in 14 years, they won‘t change it ever
  3. Don‘t know, but what are the alternatives ?

If you choose the 3rd option, you should take a look at tags. In EN tags are the main way of logically organizing information - they can be nested (if you wish), and you can apply several tags to one note, whereas a note can only be in 1 single notebook at any time.

My general notebook structure is pretty flat - roughly 20 notebooks. Much more tags - and while the notebooks stay the same (or are even getting less, by joining some), the tags are permanently growing

Notebooks are useful for other things - for example: I share a notebook with my wife for our recipes. Each of us puts new recipes in there, we automatically both have access to them. When cooking, which be both do, we add little tricks or improvements right into the note.

Or I share (temporarily) a notebook with my accountant with all the documents for the yearly tax declaration. It is much easier to set up a shared notebook than to share individual notes, one by one. But to find these documents, I use tags (in this case „Tax“ and „2022“, for this year).

I see, not a big deal - I'll take a look at utilising Tags going forward - thanks

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There is no „just add this“ like „I don‘t want cherry muffins today - let‘s put cranberries for a change“.

Nesting notebooks would require a complete rewriting of app and server backend - the reasons are already explained above in this thread.

So better just learn to use tags.

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5 hours ago, x9sim9 said:

can we not just have an official statement from Evernote

I can't see any company being willing to say "never ever",  because they may find a need or a way to do something - indeed this feature may be planned for next month or next year,  or it may be in reserve in case a competitor comes out with a different killer feature and they need a way to compete.  Evernote are under no obligation to reassure users that their favourite feature is in development,  and indeed it would be dumb for a user to subscribe to a product on the basis that a new feature is coming,  if that feature is as essential as many here make it out to be.

If you can't work without nested folders,  then I totally agree with you:  find another product that does the job.  If you like Evernote's other features,  then it makes sense to try out the 'titles and tags' approach,  but continuing to work that way unwillingly and under protest is just inefficient and unproductive.

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10 minutes ago, gazumped said:

I can't see any company being willing to say "never ever",  because they may find a need or a way to do something - indeed this feature may be planned for next month or next year,  or it may be in reserve in case a competitor comes out with a different killer feature and they need a way to compete.  Evernote are under no obligation to reassure users that their favourite feature is in development,  and indeed it would be dumb for a user to subscribe to a product on the basis that a new feature is coming,  if that feature is as essential as many here make it out to be.

If you can't work without nested folders,  then I totally agree with you:  find another product that does the job.  If you like Evernote's other features,  then it makes sense to try out the 'titles and tags' approach,  but continuing to work that way unwillingly and under protest is just inefficient and unproductive.

12 years since this post was started, 12 years of people wasting their time commenting on this board expecting something to change, it hasn't... it won't its just an exercise in futility.

Its long past due and long past ignored by evernote

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20 minutes ago, x9sim9 said:

12 years of people wasting their time commenting on this board expecting something to change,

They must not've been reading the history then,  because for 10 of those years there were posts about Evernote not being technically able to even to consider the request.  And who writes to Microsoft or Google asking for changes in their software,  and expects to see them implemented?  This ain't a special request live disco...

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19 minutes ago, gazumped said:

They must not've been reading the history then,  because for 10 of those years there were posts about Evernote not being technically able to even to consider the request.  And who writes to Microsoft or Google asking for changes in their software,  and expects to see them implemented?  This ain't a special request live disco...

Sigh what did I expect... You are right, I am wrong, I know nothing, you know everything, god I am glad I no longer depend on this product, its such a joke that this even needs to be discussed in 2022...

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22 minutes ago, x9sim9 said:

…., its such a joke that this even needs to be discussed in 2022...

Correct. The platform is not build to support it. If somebody wants nesting, use another product.

Nobody is forced to use EN, and especially nobody who insists in this specific feature. Just move on, nothing to see here.

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This is the number #1 reason I'm searching for a different note taking app at this point. I love Evernote, tasks are awesome, and the features work really well together. 

But I have a lot of notes across a wide range of topics, and as a one stop shop for web clipping and other things, it's missing stuff. 

However the one that is causing me pain is this inability to manage a collection of notes more than one level deep. Make it a paid feature, whatever, I'm a paid member, but this needs to be there... you know, like templates and resizing images needed to be for many years.

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2 hours ago, Leif Ashley said:

you know, like templates and resizing images needed to be for many years.

Hi.  Well,  templates is now a feature,  but resizing images is really an image editor type of thing.  And 'sub notebooks' has been requested for 12+ years - so why you'd expect any action in that regard in the forseeable future I am unable to see...

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21 hours ago, Leif Ashley said:

This is the number #1 reason I'm searching for a different note taking app at this point.

Have you tried UpNote? I believe it has multiple level of nesting notebooks and is very Evernote-like. They have a web clipper too. I really like it, but I like Evernote quite a bit better and I don't need multiple levels of notebook nesting.

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On 5/13/2022 at 10:41 PM, gazumped said:

Hi.  Well,  templates is now a feature,  but resizing images is really an image editor type of thing.  And 'sub notebooks' has been requested for 12+ years - so why you'd expect any action in that regard in the forseeable future I am unable to see...

Resizing an image is unquestionably not an image editor type of thing. If you think that, then I don't think you understand the purpose of Evernote and what the intent of my/our needs are.

I need to put an image in, of whatever size, and be able to not have it take up my entire view. I don't actually want to resize the image resolution, I want to scale it so it's smaller.

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On 5/14/2022 at 5:39 PM, Boot17 said:

Have you tried UpNote? I believe it has multiple level of nesting notebooks and is very Evernote-like. They have a web clipper too. I really like it, but I like Evernote quite a bit better and I don't need multiple levels of notebook nesting.

No, but did literally everything else on the market... I have a lot of checkboxes to pick a notes app. But I'll look at it.

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1 hour ago, Leif Ashley said:

I need to put an image in, of whatever size, and be able to not have it take up my entire view. I don't actually want to resize the image resolution, I want to scale it so it's smaller.

I've been using Evernote for more than a decade and am currently running 3 different versions on 3 different OS's,  including version 10 on Windows 11 to manage something over 55k notes so I think I have a fairly good grasp of what's involved in both the app and the process of note taking.  I already cut images down to size quite easily by using a table - the image is constrained by the cell size unless you select it for Gallery view,  when you can page through a selection of moderate-resolution large images one by one. 

I've not yet had the need to check,  but Legacy had the ability to adjust image size on desktops by grabbing a handle at the bottom right corner.

When I have a bad attack of artistry and need to get creative to adjust the levels or the framing of an image I do that pretty seamlessly in XNView which has keyboard shortcuts for crop / adjust levels / resize / save.  It will open an image direct from a note and save it back there when you're done.  It's like annotating an image,  just not within Evernote.

...But I appreciate you're reviewing the rest of the market to see whom you should favour with your business.  Let us know what you eventually decide - it may help another user!

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1 hour ago, Leif Ashley said:

Resizing an image is unquestionably not an image editor type of thing. If you think that, then I don't think you understand the purpose of Evernote and what the intent of my/our needs are.

I need to put an image in, of whatever size, and be able to not have it take up my entire view. I don't actually want to resize the image resolution, I want to scale it so it's smaller.

Put a table into a note, put the pictures into the table cells. It will resize the viewing to the width of the tables column.

Done … that is the EN way to bring pictures to a certain viewing size. It is very elegant, because to resize a bunch of pictures you just need to change the column width. The original resolution and file size remains unchanged.

If you want something else, use the feedback function build into the clients.

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On 1/29/2021 at 7:29 PM, mikefinleyco said:

Yes, it is quite productive to troll a thread for 10 years telling every new person who adds their voice to wanting this improvement why you think it can't be done, or why you think it shouldn't be done. That's the signature of somebody who is productive. 😄

It's about as productive a use of your time as the pinkelephant trolling the thread year after year telling people they should go find another product if they are asking for an improvement on a forum created by the software company itself asking for suggestions of improvements. 🙄

I'm not saying this feature shouldn't or couldn't be implemented long-term (I am not a coder and I don't think you should have to be in order to post feature requests here in the forums), but I am wondering whether there could be a better way to present the notebooks visually to compensate for the lack of sub-levels in the short term? In Windows/Android the Notebooks are hardly presented visually at all except for general, gray non-customizable stack and notebook icons. There's got to be better ways to present these features to the user without having to change everything under the hood? What could be done to make it FEEL like you're using a notebook?

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On 1/26/2022 at 6:04 AM, User1011 said:

New user - would appreciate if EN can update for Stacks within Stacks. Currently transferring data from another provider and a now have a long list of stacks/folders, which I would prefer to condense further.

Sync is reliable at least in comparison to my previous service.

That might actually be a nice solution. Maybe we will "never" have nested notebook, but it would be a help to have nested stacks.

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For the same reason there are no nested notebooks, there will be no nested stacks.

One view at the data structure, and this is clear to anybody who has a basic understanding of databases. Changing this would mean rewriting backend and all clients.

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8 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

For the same reason there are no nested notebooks, there will be no nested stacks.

One view at the data structure, and this is clear to anybody who has a basic understanding of databases. Changing this would mean rewriting backend and all clients.

Oh, I'm sorry. I don't have access to the Evernote data structure. I have seen some documentation, but it did not include stacks. I'd love to see a more up to data structure. 
Yes, it would require changes, but not a rewrite. But I'm not an expert. I just work with SQL-databases 🙂


But I have understood that you do not have a need for it, and that totally ok. For me it's a raeson for looking a other tools to replace what I have been using for 12 years. 
I would love to see Evernote in a place where it's keeps outperforming that younger products on the market 🙂

But I see a lot of the formers Evernote evangelists switching to get a more modern features set. 
 

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Just watching as another user on what I get:

Notes to notebooks is n:1

Notebooks to stacks is n:1 again 

You follow me ?

This means the structure is quite simple: Notebook is just a field in the notes metadata, stacks is just another field in the notebooks metadata.

If they would go nesting, they would get a complex tree, and probably need intermediary tables to avoid long loops when reading through all of the levels.

Either way, loops or extra table means a complete rewrite of clients and backend. Plus as a one timer a rebuild of the complete search index, both serverside and on all clients.

You still follow me ?

That‘s why I think without any inside knowledge that we will never see deep nesting of notebooks.

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2 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Just watching as another user on what I get:

Notes to notebooks is n:1

Notebooks to stacks is n:1 again 

You follow me ?

This means the structure is quite simple: Notebook is just a field in the notes metadata, stacks is just another field in the notebooks metadata.

If they would go nesting, they would get a complex tree, and probably need intermediary tables to avoid long loops when reading through all of the levels.

Either way, loops or extra table means a complete rewrite of clients and backend. Plus as a one timer a rebuild of the complete search index, both serverside and on all clients.

You still follow me ?

That‘s why I think without any inside knowledge that we will never see deep nesting of notebooks.

Time will tell 🙂

As stack are most likely just an id on a notebook referring to a stacks table, it might be quite "easy" to expand with a parentID on stacks. But if we don't ask, we will never have it 🙂

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