Please give us old and good Evernote back

[persiomenezes 39]

Ijust found Evernote Legacy and Evernote site, the software as it was before the big atualization of Evernote 10. This is the good Evernote I ever used. Simple, clean, fast and pratic. Everything in it is better than the new Evernote. The main diference is the "search" function. In the old software, when we start to write the word we want to find, the interface automaticaly filter the notes showing only notes with that sequence of letters. This is a very fast way to work. Developers created a new Evernote full of non sense functionalities, but the spirit of the software simply was lost. The old version is so fast to scroll the notes. Please, dev, give us back the old and good Evernote. This new version will kill the software. Changes should happen to improve something, but the ol version is supperior to the new on in all aspects.

Evernote was the most important tool in my notebook during years. I used to feel pleasure in using it. I have lost all pleasure with this new slow ugry version. Please, I beg!

[PinkElephant 8,114]

OK, you are happy with your horse. It is aging, but looking good as it always did as long as you can remember. If you find it one morning looking less mobile, don’t be worried, we have solid advise for that situation:

 

1. Get a better whip.
2. Change the riders.
3. Set up a special committee to analyze the dead horse, or even better, hire an army of consultants and perform an in-depth analysis of the dead horse.
4. Organize visits to other organizations and countries, and understand how foreign cultures manage to ride dead horses.
5. Lower the standards at a level where dead horses become competitive.
6. Reclassify dead horses into “life-disabled resources”
7. Hire external staff to ride the dead horses. 
8. Harness dead horses together, to increase overall speed. 
9. Allow additional budget to boost performance of dead horses
10. Conduct a study on productivity and find out if lighter riders could improve a dead horse’s performance. 
11. State that « it is crystal clear: since dead horses don’t need to be fed, they are less costly and thus contribute more to profit than live horses. » 
12. Redefine the standards to include all horses’ categories.

Or get a new horse, ‚ya know what I mean …

Make your peace with v10, if you can - I use it nearly exclusively by now, and it feels fresh, lean and productive for me. V10 will not go away, and legacy is as dead as it can be, just nobody told it yet.

If v10 is no option for you switch to another app, one that does spark joy again. Because dead horses are neither productive nor joyful to ride.

[Stathis 98]

@persiomenezes

Evernote has a chosen a path that is better from a business POV. Their ‘Electron’ approach means that they now have to write code once and it would then build into multiple platforms, after minimal amendments. 

I have myself complained a lot about those changes, including features that are no longer supported, like EN Moleskine notebooks for example, which I had stocked for good or glitches and performance issues that got better but not completely eliminated. The thing is, the architectural approach will never compete with native apps, which is why I ended up switching to Craft since I am solely in the Apple ecosystem

They are not going to change their path now, since they are highly invested in it. Maybe if they see substantial drop in user count, they might listen.

This is why I recommend switching to one of the solutions that I analyzed in my post below

 

[PinkElephant 8,114]

I completely agree that everybody should use the solution which objectively and from the gut feeling is best. Since every user is different, no single solution will do it for all.

From my feeling (no inside knowledge) EN currently is gaining new subscribers. Probably they lost some very longtime users in getting there, but in the subscription business model what counts is a positive balance - more subscribers adding to the income pool than leaving. I think even when there are much more solutions today than 5 years ago (and definitely more than when EN launched), EN is still a front runner for notes and document management.

[ehrt74 240]

4 hours ago, Stathis said:

@persiomenezes

Evernote has a chosen a path that is better from a business POV. Their ‘Electron’ approach means that they now have to write code once and it would then build into multiple platforms, after minimal amendments. 

I have myself complained a lot about those changes, including features that are no longer supported, like EN Moleskine notebooks for example, which I had stocked for good or glitches and performance issues that got better but not completely eliminated. The thing is, the architectural approach will never compete with native apps, which is why I ended up switching to Craft since I am solely in the Apple ecosystem

They are not going to change their path now, since they are highly invested in it. Maybe if they see substantial drop in user count, they might listen.

This is why I recommend switching to one of the solutions that I analyzed in my post below

 

I'm not sure about the architectural approach being that bad. Evernote was unable to write stable native apps for all the platforms because they just don't have the resources to write 5 apps with vastly different code bases. 

having code running in a virtual machine on the client (be it a web rendering engine or the JVM or whatever) makes it much easier to optimise the app for all the clients. as time goes by we might well see the advantages of this.

buggy non-performant code can be written in native apps as well. for something as lightweight as note-taking the technology involved is not that important from a performance standpoint---evernote is not a 3d game. 

personally, being able to share my notes with others is more important to me than having a native app limited by being tied to one particular type of computer.

[persiomenezes 39]

Em 25/03/2022 at 16:55, PinkElephant disse:

OK, you are happy with your horse. It is aging, but looking good as it always did as long as you can remember. If you find it one morning looking less mobile, don’t be worried, we have solid advise for that situation:

 

1. Get a better whip.
2. Change the riders.
3. Set up a special committee to analyze the dead horse, or even better, hire an army of consultants and perform an in-depth analysis of the dead horse.
4. Organize visits to other organizations and countries, and understand how foreign cultures manage to ride dead horses.
5. Lower the standards at a level where dead horses become competitive.
6. Reclassify dead horses into “life-disabled resources”
7. Hire external staff to ride the dead horses. 
8. Harness dead horses together, to increase overall speed. 
9. Allow additional budget to boost performance of dead horses
10. Conduct a study on productivity and find out if lighter riders could improve a dead horse’s performance. 
11. State that « it is crystal clear: since dead horses don’t need to be fed, they are less costly and thus contribute more to profit than live horses. » 
12. Redefine the standards to include all horses’ categories.

Or get a new horse, ‚ya know what I mean …

Make your peace with v10, if you can - I use it nearly exclusively by now, and it feels fresh, lean and productive for me. V10 will not go away, and legacy is as dead as it can be, just nobody told it yet.

If v10 is no option for you switch to another app, one that does spark joy again. Because dead horses are neither productive nor joyful to ride.

 

@PinkElephant

Dude, your text simple is not abour my topic is about. I am talking about Evernote, I dont know anything about horses, please go to some horses forum.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

If you knew anything about software, you would know when a program has reached the end of its lifeline.

Remember the last years with legacy ? No improvements, hardly keeping up with OS development, bug fixes months too late etc.

This is what you you are hyping and wish it would return ?!

It has more to do with riding dead horses than you want to admit.

But you got the message, didn’t you ? It just doesn’t fit into your storyline, I assume.

[persiomenezes 39]

@PinkElephant

 

Dude, please go talk someone else, search a blue elephant os such.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Just to mention it: You post your personal view, I post mine. If you don’t like what I post, you can answer.

But neither you nor me owns the forum, or even a specific thread.

You think v10 is a big mistake. Time will tell.

I think all that legacy stuff had already lived beyond its viable lifetime. And this time has already told - legacy is history, allowed to coexist until it disappears by itself.

To ask it to be revived is nonsensical at best (because nobody will try), disastrous in worst case (if tried, which will not happen).

If unhappy with v10, I think you probably need to seek an alternative for yourself.

[MalSproull 0]

Can I just check that I am understanding this correctly?  Has my history of note taking prior to 2016 been deleted?  If so I would call that criminal. I've been using evernote since around 2010 and it held a lot of historical info for me. I chose it because of the name EVERnote.  What am I missing????

[PinkElephant 8,114]

You are missing notes ?

Either post a better description here ( you don’t really tell anything that would help to look into the matter), or contact support.

We have a lot of long term users, and they don’t miss their notes. I think in the end we will find out where yours are.

Just for the wording: Note history is something else than old notes.

[JohnLongney 83]

@persiomenezes

hello to you, and yes, Evernote would do well to keep the Legacy version going.

I tried the new Win Evernote app a year ago and decided I am not ever changing to their electron app and I also know why Evernote opted for it.

My reason for refusing an electron app for note-taking/document storage/web-clipping is the sluggish nature of such apps because they were never meant to substitute full-blown desktop applications with complete local database storage.

Evernote either never had the cash and/or competent programmers to redevelop the MacOS and Win desktop apps nor the mobile Android/iOS apps to finally have  identical functions and user interfaces which was overdue. So Evernote decided to go the cheap and nasty way to suit themselves. 

I had the nerve to install the latest Android app on my Samsung S10+ phone today, actually went without a hitch.   Snag is the horrific battery drain, and worst of all,  not all notes auto-resized.

A short visit to the Evernote YouTube channel (123,000 subscribers) was worthwhile.  Mostly very short clips, sub-standard quality (audio&video), no way to win business customers outside of the Evernote hard-core aficionado bubble.

 

@PinkElephant

FYI, the Legacy version is rock-solid, never crashes, with spot-on synchro and web-clipping. Whoever was responsible for that version at Evernote deserves praise. Preview of a web-clipped note is linked to a PDF editor, in my case, Acrobat Pro which makes it an absolute dolly to edit and tidy up.

 AFAIC that horse has umpteen miles left under its hooves. Should a silly lieutenant decide to shoot it, I'll pull the trigger as well. 😇

[Boot17 1,450]

I think the old Evernote was great too, but perhaps there was some writing on the wall that EN was able to see before some of us. Lots of new note taking apps were exploding: Amplenote, Notion, Obsidian, Craft, Nimbus, etc. (see https://www.noteapps.info/apps/compare) and EN was having a hard time adding new features to keep up. Likely they thought this unified Electron code-base was was the better way to go. Too bad for some. Ok or good for others. Too bad it hasn't been a seamless switch for many.

[Chris Darby 11]

@JohnLongney, @Boot17 Frustrating as it has been for me to work through the changes with Evernote (as discussed here), ultimately abandoning my previous decade-old massive database and essentially start over, I'm walking away with a couple of significant "lessons learned" from the year-long experience. First, it was foolish of me to become so dependent on Evernote as my "auxiliary brain" and use it as a catch-all, and from this I'm taking steps towards becoming more cognizant and accountable for how I manage my information (less of a "tag it, store it and forget it" mentality). Second, while I recognize the value had by Evernote deciding to create new consolidated source code that is more cross-platform compatible, thereby saving time and reducing the need to hire additional developers to support multiple platforms, I'm also coming to realize that making everything cross-platform is not always the right move. There really are some significant differences between the way that the native "Evernote Legacy" software for Windows performs and the new multi-platform Evernote performs, with respect to responsiveness and features. It's a tough call to choose between spending maybe 500 K USD and 1 M USD (wild guesses here) on extra staff to support optimized performance and features, versus maybe half or a fraction of that on a multi-platform solution with mostly shared code. I don't know the answer in the case of Evernote and they probably made the right decision, but from an end-user perspective, the present iteration of the new software is still significantly behind how well the legacy software for Windows performed. Regardless, as I continue to focus on my first lesson learned, I'm grateful to have gone through this experience and I look forward to better managing my personal data collection going forward, without being so dependent and disorganized.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Thanks for the insight into your personal decision finding process.

The question of moving on to a better, integrated code base was not one between spending more or less money. If you look at the release cycles before the switch to v10, there were hardly any improvements any more. Anything that happened was to keep up with the OS changes, and the browser development. That was all, and it was not enough.

The way the old code base had evolved, it was re-inventing the wheel 4 times, and in each case a different set of construction principles and materials were to be followed. Maybe some algorithms could be exchanged, but no significant part of the code. The Windows client you are hyping was probably the worst of them all: Still running on a 32bit code base, it was completely outdated and only kept alive because Microsoft tunes Windows to be compatible with the oldest piece of software ever written. MacOS had already cut support for all 32bit code, legacy 7.14 is already running on 64bit code. 

With the new framework-based approach, the framework provider cares for changes in the operating system. EN devs can focus on the app itself. I think they made the transition when it was still possible to do. My list of features that work better in legacy than v10 is shrinking, not much left. I prefer an app that is still growing, with fast release cycles and a potential of new features (and new users) over a stagnant piece of software with users oriented to the "good old days".

Not because I would care if there are more or less devs working on the app - because I want to continue to use EN as my tool to manage information. Legacy would have been (already was) a death spiral, and I am glad it was abandoned.

[Boot17 1,450]

@Chris DarbyYour points reminded me of this post: https://sive.rs/plaintext (he mentions Evernote), that I read about here (with comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30521545

From that link:

Quote

My written words are my most precious asset. They are also a history of my life. That’s why I only use plain text files. They are the most reliable, flexible, and long-lasting option. Here’s why.

It might be an interesting read for you too.

[Chris Darby 11]

2 hours ago, Boot17 said:

It might be an interesting read for you too.

 

@Boot17, thank you for sharing those articles, as both are indeed very familiar. It's nice to hear from others who have had similar experiences and given these things further thought. I used to use plain text files extensively for many years, categorizing different topics by different sections within text files, different files within directories, and different sub-directories within directories. I ended up (for the most part) abandoning this approach since I ran into search problems when trying to find past content consistently, usually an issue of there being too many false positives in search results, due to a lacking complex multi-field Boolean queries. I still use various plain text files daily for various notes, but not nearly as extensively due to searching and scaling problems. On the other hand, in the "Write plain text files" article by Derek Sivers that you shared, he does make a good case for using standard field strings such as "date:" and "tags:" (which could be expanded further) in all text files, which might be able to solve searching problems.

With plain text files I'd like to be able to perform complex multi-field Boolean searches such as:

select * from MyBrain where (DateUpdated > '2022-04-01 00:00:00' and DateUpdated < '2022-04-05 00:00:00') and (tag = 'Chevy' or tag = 'Ford') and Author not like '%smith%'

This type of a query is possible with a SQL-style database. I've regularly made use of a Microsoft Access database for about fifteen years, since it is highly customizable (with tables, columns, queries, forms, reports) and it supports complex SQL queries for searching. It works great, but this only runs on Windows. It would get more frequent use if it would also run on Linux and Android.

I'd like to develop a custom backend synchronization library (Linux so, Windows dll) with interfaces that can be called from multiple platforms leveraging either SQLite or some other low profile multiplatform dataset storage technology (XML/JSON), which would also require developing multiple custom frontend user interfaces on multiple platforms in order to interact with those synchronized datasets via the backend synchronization library... but these are only concepts that lack the necessary implementation effort (i.e., me daydreaming and not doing).

I've also given some thought to making use of Git repositories beyond just source code (as per your Hacker News article). This would leverage the organizing capabilities that are native to all file systems (in the form of sub-directories), combined with git commit date/time values, comments/messages, revisions/branches and other features of Git. There are some included searching capabilities, such as git grep, but the built-in capabilities are not robust enough to support complex multi-field Boolean queries.

An "auxiliary brain" would ideally support the following capabilities: multiple platforms; full synchronization/mirroring of all data; grouping by hierarchies (e.g., sub-folders); tagging records; linking records; and complex multi-field searches.

Since it seems unlikely that I'm going to dedicate the time to "reinvent the wheel" by trying to create my own custom multi-platform data synchronization software product, I've been researching available file system indexing solutions that run on Linux and/or Windows, with the thought that I might return to using files and sub-directories as my primary mass information/concepts storage destination, but only if I could find a way to perform robust complex searches. Some candidate software that I've been looking at include: Elasticsearch/OpenSearch; Tracker; find; locate; rlocate; FSearch; Catfish; Recoll; Cerebro; Synapse; Search Monkey; ANGRYsearch; Doodle; and Everything. It's going to be some time before I've finished testing these various products.

Another advantage to falling back on files and sub-directories on a standard operating system file system is that it's portable and can be easily synchronized/mirrored using a variety of methods. Even simple tar gzip commands can be used to backup content. And git could be utilized for more robust computer to computer synchronizing on a per-file basis.

The only downside to these various software candidates for indexing files on Linux and Windows file systems is that this doesn't carry over to Android. This is why products such as Evernote and OneNote are so popular: they've managed to unify much of the described functionality into a backend that can be interacted with via their proprietary API by multiple platforms.

Evernote has been one of the closest candidates for fulfilling all of these capabilities over the past decade, until recently.

It seems likely that one will need to relax their expectations and divide these different capabilities between different products running on different platforms, as it seems unrealistic to expect all of these capabilities to run everywhere with one's full collection of data. This also relates back to the first "lesson learned" that I mentioned in my previous post: We shouldn't allow ourselves to become dependent on any single resource being used to capture all of our notes, thoughts and ideas. We should instead become more cognizant and accountable for how we manage our information, with more flexibility and diversity in the techniques utilized, while also striving to be minimize the quantity of data that we amass.

I'll try to remember to come back here and share any noteworthy findings if I make any headway with alternative solutions in this regard. In the meantime, the "Write plain text files" article is something that some of us might give more thought to. Thank you again for sharing those two websites.

 

[Chris Darby 11]

56 minutes ago, Chris Darby said:

In the meantime, the "Write plain text files" article is something that some of us might give more thought to. Thank you again for sharing those two websites.

@Boot17, I also found the below article interesting (stumbled upon while reviewing the articles that you shared):

https://www.al3x.net/blog/2009/01/31/the-case-against-everything-buckets

 

[RJLUK 307]

47 minutes ago, Chris Darby said:

It seems likely that one will need to relax their expectations and divide these different capabilities between different products running on different platforms

@Chris Darby= correct. @Boot17The two articles are irrelevant to most users I suspect as anyone who is concerned about pure text and offline storage etc knows which apps to use and where to place data.

If you want more than that then use Evernote. I can not find anything that searches as well as EN.

If you want both- perhaps create /save text files to local computer then PDF file ( to make it easy to search) and upload to EB with the TXT file as an attachment.

Many local storage/text only apps such as Obsidian are useful and developing constantly BUT they are a distraction and encourage "tinkering". 

Sometime down the road maybe EN will offer ability to store as plain text? ......Text blocks.........bidirectional internal linking...and so on but at the moment with the new Tasks facility with tasks linked and contained within notes as opposed to a not being linked to a task it is a killer app. I am back it works for me and I look forward to the next phase of development.

The simple test I guess is - at the moment can you do what you need to do with evernote? No then use something else. It is not going to revert to the old legacy system as they are looking to future. Yes they should have warned users of their plans but they HAVE provided the legacy version for those that want it.

Im back on board- loving new version and using EN for a lot more than I used to.

[kthesun 101]

Well, I can only say that I agree on the title of the topic. I used to love Evernote, now I hate it. The new app is not reliant anymore. That makes notekeeping stressful and that means the app fails in its main purpose. 
 

I will one day have the time and energy to migrate to something else. Maybe I am forced to because Evernote is shutting down. I actually even hope it. 
 

[PinkElephant 8,114]

.....

13) Tell the doctor who diagnosed the horse is dead to stop calling dead horses dead

.....

Instead of posting your wish a service that does a good job for other should vanish, I think you better care for your own affairs.

[RJLUK 307]

54 minutes ago, kthesun said:

 The new app is not reliant anymore. That makes notekeeping stressful and that means the app fails in its main purpose. 

Main purpose as in keep notes for ever- ( clue is in the name)?

Maybe I have too much time on my hands but.......I tried= I really tried to replace EN with apple notes and returned to EN

If I want to create a note.....task....reminder...sketch on my mobile device can I with EN? =Yes

Does it have a functional webpage clipper that er clips web pages = Yes  ...............Apple does not- the "share" option is almost useless.

Is it synched and accessible across multiple devices ( and web page- oddly yes I have paid extra for that)? = yes ...............APPLE NOTES simply did NOT synch some notes

Does it search within all content=yes ...............Apple notes does not

If I take hand written notes- photograph and upload does it find text within IMAGE=yes  ...............Apple notes does not

Can I build my own menu of Saved Searches and links= yes  ...............Apple sort of using tags but easy

Can I backup/extract data= yes ...............Apple notes no way.

I suspect a silent majority here and on say Reddit simply get on with with USING EN.

Apart for Onenote and perhaps Devonthink none of the other APPS/SYstems have LONGEVITY- they have not proved themselves to be in the game for the long run so I will let others beta test them while I get on with it.

I am not some En fan boy and there are many things I would like to see added/changed - they scored a massive own goal by not actually telling people what they planned to do by stripping back options as they re built the system, but no use crying over spilt milk.

At the moment Evernote works for me and I don't have the time or the energy to risk experimenting with " new" tools and utilities.

I can't comment on windows /android but even the Web version is ballistic these days.

I guess each to his own- if note taking is stressful you are either doing it wrong or this product is the not the right one for you so best you go off and use an alternative.

[DTLow 5,736]

2 hours ago, kthesun said:

I will one day have the time and energy to migrate to something else. Maybe I am forced to because Evernote is shutting down. I actually even hope it. 

As a long time Evernote Legacy (old and good) user, I experienced that day more than a year ago
(Actually Evernote Legacy is still functional, but it's clearly "shutting down")      
So, I made my decision as to where "to migrate to something else"   

It's up to you to evaluate the alternatives, and make a selection  
Evernote Version 10 is one of alternatives; possibly requiring the least "time and energy" for migration

[RJLUK 307]

3 hours ago, DTLow said:

Evernote Version 10 is one of alternatives; possibly requiring the least "time and energy" for migration

I think you might get a pleasant surprise. Maybe the approach should be to treat v10 as a new app that actually imports enex files.

[DTLow 5,736]

52 minutes ago, RobertJLee said:

Maybe the approach should be to treat v10 as a new app that actually imports enex files.

That's my approach (new app)    
btw; enex file import not required for migration; both products use the same cloud database

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Maybe it is really not a bad idea to treat v10 as a new app, and simply make a decision based on the personal (!) feature set, and the personal (!) impression of the look & feel. I don’t think somebody should use a tool that does simply not feel right - this will prevent a productive use as much as a lack of capabilities.

Because use cases and use happiness are subjective, we can argue about our personal view here. But we all should respect there is no right or wrong, just chances to share insight.

[kthesun 101]

My main point isn't feature set. This is something i could find workarounds for. My main point is that Evernote v10 is simply a very bad piece of software in terms of stability, speed and user experience.

[scojjac 61]

I disagree that v10 is a "very bad piece of software". It has room for improvement, for sure. But no one has a better web clipper. No one searches my attachments - including handwritten notes - better.  Evernote best covers my needs. There are definitely things I want - iOS keyboard shortcuts, better internal link support, publishing (kind of like Obsidian Publish), related notes, bulk-tagging notes - but for me the app is stable, fast, and easy-to-use.

Edited April 12, 2022 by scojjac
added a wanted feature

[Boot17 1,450]

I have tried a lot of different note taking tools out there and I think that the Evernote v10 UI/UX is among the best. Feature-set wise, it is also the best for my use cases even though there are others that have some features that I wish Evernote had. Some of the note taking apps that I have personally downloaded, installed, and tried: Bear, Craft, Apple Notes, Notion, UpNote, Notesnook, Ample Note, Obsidian, One Note, Nimbus, Rome Research, Joplin, Dendron, Google Docs, Notejoy. Most of that testing came just over a year ago when I was experiencing some frustration with v10.

Fortunately, there are so many great note taking tools out there that we could use. Unfortunately, none of them are the old Evernote. It does take a lot of time to evaluate software though and could take even longer to migrate to it depending on the number of notes and the import/export options of the note apps.

I sympathize with those that wish for the old Evernote back. It really is like v10 is another alternative app as others have already mentioned -- it's like the "default" alternative app because our notes were "converted" automatically to it. But many are continuing to find that they now need to migrate to something new because old Evernote is EOL and v10 still doesn't have a lot of the features as the old/legacy (and may never get them).

[DTLow 5,736]

38 minutes ago, Boot17 said:

Fortunately, there are so many great note taking tools out there that we could use.

I'm more concerned with storage and organization for my notes/documents/files   
I like the concept of using a digital file cabinet

As to "note taking", I agree there's no shortage of note editors available   
I've found Evernote's integrated editor to be the best at wysiwyg editing for html based notes   
(my preferred note format)

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Personally I agree that strong document management capabilities are a big pro for EN, especially combined with the search.

However this could be solved (even better) by document management software DMS.

What makes EN stand out is the combination of a DMS with file storage, and the ability to enrich the storage with information added by myself. All this with a much higher level of flexibility than typical DMS systems offer.

Task have been a really useful extension introduced with v10 last summer - they make content actionable.

In total the support for my (!) use cases is today much better than it ever was based on legacy.

[RJLUK 307]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

Task have been a really useful extension introduced with v10 last summer - they make content actionable.

In total the support for my (!) use cases is today much better than it ever was based on legacy.

My thoughts exactly - it does what I ask and I am looking forward to the next "expansion".

[eric99 980]

11 hours ago, DTLow said:

I've found Evernote's integrated editor to be the best at wysiwyg editing for html based notes   (my preferred note format)

Do you mean .enex format which is based on html? 

[DTLow 5,736]

5 hours ago, eric99 said:

Do you mean .enex format which is based on html? 

Actually enml format based on html (https://dev.evernote.com/doc/articles/enml.php)   
The local database in Evernote Legacy (Mac) actually presents a content.enml for every note   
  
I have trouble working with the .enex format because attachment files are embedded,    
(instead of separate files in native format)

[kthesun 101]

On 4/12/2022 at 3:02 AM, scojjac said:

I disagree that v10 is a "very bad piece of software". It has room for improvement, for sure. But no one has a better web clipper. No one searches my attachments - including handwritten notes - better.  Evernote best covers my needs. There are definitely things I want - iOS keyboard shortcuts, better internal link support, publishing (kind of like Obsidian Publish), related notes, bulk-tagging notes - but for me the app is stable, fast, and easy-to-use.

I have major stability and reliability issues on iOS and this is my key problem. The bugs are so numerous and haven't been fixed for more than 1 year so I don't think they will ever do it.

for example, when you paste a picture into a note, it is pasted 3 times. This is since release. No one ever cared. Just riddicolous. 
 

 

 

[scojjac 61]

Hm, I've never had that problem @kthesun. (In fact, I just tested it with a local photo and a web photo.) But I did have a weird list view issue in one app that also cropped up in Evernote - only on my iPhone. I tried re-installing the app, as well as restoring the OS using iTunes and then restoring from backup, but the solution ended up being RECOVERING the iPhone in DFU mode and NOT restoring from backup. Thankfully there's very little I keep only on my phone. I've been restoring from backup for years, so I'm positively looking at it as an opportunity to start fresh. ha

[RJLUK 307]

58 minutes ago, kthesun said:

when you paste a picture into a note, it is pasted 3 times. This is since release.

Just tested it no issues just pasted......on iOS and Mac.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

There is a specific problem with screenshots - they are in fact pasted 3 times.

EN is aware of it, and works on a fix. I doubt it is very urgent - nothing crashes or gets lost, it is just the nuissance to delete 2 of the copies.

[kthesun 101]

21 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

There is a specific problem with screenshots - they are in fact pasted 3 times.

EN is aware of it, and works on a fix. I doubt it is very urgent - nothing crashes or gets lost, it is just the nuissance to delete 2 of the copies.

As I said, no one cares...

[ehrt74 240]

9 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

There is a specific problem with screenshots - they are in fact pasted 3 times.

EN is aware of it, and works on a fix. I doubt it is very urgent - nothing crashes or gets lost, it is just the nuissance to delete 2 of the copies.

oh strange. i wonder what iOS does differently with a screenshot than with other sources for image files. And more importantly: why? The only thing i can think of is a "shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted" approach to security: screenshots from banking apps for example can be filtered out if apps know that it's a screenshot and have some meta information about which app has been screenshotted. 

[PinkElephant 8,114]

It happens, it looks very much like a bug, it got confirmed as such. That’s all I can tell about it.

It does not happen when sharing the screenshot into EN.

It happens when taking a screenshot, then copying it, opening EN and pasting from the clipboard. 

3 circles appear, and the picture is pasted 3 times. The source of the screenshot must not be Safari, can be any screen.

You usually use it when you want to add a picture from a screenshot to an existing note.  Then you won’t share it to EN (which creates a new note), you will copy &  paste.

It does not happen either when copying a picture from the camera roll and pasting it to a note. It is specific to copying a screenshot.

And it does not happen when copying a screenshot into other apps.

Weird enough ? Still happens in EN 10.30 on iOS 15.4.1.

10 more releases, and it reaches feature status 🤪

[gewappnet 79]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

3 circles appear, and the picture is pasted 3 times. The source of the screenshot must not be Safari, can be any screen.

It is interesting to use Yoink to analyze the clipboard after copying a screenshot. There you can see that copying a screenshot in iOS actually puts two files of the screenshot in the clipboard: A PNG version and a JPEG version. When pasting such a stack of files the target app should decide which format it prefers and then it will get just that format. Somehow the Evernote app can not deal with this mechanism and seems to get confused by it.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Kudos for the idea to use Yoink to look up the clipboard. It holds 2 pictures, 1 PNG, one JPG in a clipboard container.

Inserted into the note in EN is the PNG-picture twice, followed by the JPG. So it seems it really tries to import both pictures from the clipboard, and for whatever reason it does it twice for the PNG.

When sharing, only the PNG is imported.

[Chris Darby 11]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

Inserted into the note in EN is the PNG-picture twice, followed by the JPG. So it seems it really tries to import both pictures from the clipboard, and for whatever reason it does it twice for the PNG.

On the surface, it seems like this would be a straightforward update, although the developers would probably need to either make a decision about which image type to select (PNG/JPG) or add a new setting for the user to choose as the default. A new technique (function logic) also needs to be created for deciding which single item in an array of items to choose from the clipboard. The clipboard object in different operating systems might require if-then-else or switch-case conditional calls (since JavaScript doesn't support preprocessor directives) to handle respective O.S. clipboard library APIs differently. Or it could be that the electron.clipboard library performs in an O.S. agnostic fashion (cross-platform abstraction) such that the same lines of code can be utilized on all supported platforms to interact with the clipboard. In either event (object handling pun intended), the real issue here is the payload that is entering the app from the clipboard, which could be a single item (text, HTML, RTF, image) or an array of items. Determining how to handle the content to be pasted into an app can be helped by trying to understand the context (user intent), otherwise the "just dump everything from the clipboard" is the safe default approach, if the code isn't able to discriminate and choose just one element in an array of items in the clipboard. It's an interesting challenge, because the clipboard on any O.S. can contain a variety of different types of data, but I would start by having the code first determine if the clipboard contains an array of only images on every paste event, and if that result is true, then iterate through all items in the array and select a single image in the desired default format. But this is just guesswork, not knowing more about their development environment, and I'm rambling on about it here only because it seems like an interesting challenge to be resolved.

 

[gewappnet 79]

2 minutes ago, Chris Darby said:

On the surface, it seems like this would be a straightforward update, although the developers would probably need to either make a decision about which image type to select (PNG/JPG) or add a new setting for the user to choose as the default.

As I said above, the mechanism of iOS/iPadOS is pretty clear: In the clipboard could be stacks with many file format versions of the same content. The target app automatically states its preference of these formats and gets the one fitting. E. g. if I mark this sentence of my posting in Safari and copy it, there will be a stack with five(!) different files in the clipboard: RTFD (flat), RTFD, Text, RTF and HTML. But if I paste it in Evernote, it can handle it and the result will be just the sentence as text without multiple copies. So Evernote is already able to process the iOS/iPadOS clipboard - just not for screenshots that come as PNG-JPEG-stack.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Currently it seems pretty simple: The PNG is much larger than the JPG. It is like 4MB for the PNG vs. 550MB for the JPG, read from an iPhone screenshot.

Probably quality oriented subscribers would prefer the PNG, and Free users with limited upload would choose the JPG. When using the sharing process, the PNG is used.

Flip a coin ...

[panterazero 12]

 

Although this thread has wandered far from its roots, I really must present a counter to the original post, because I believe I understand the substance of the debate here. My credentials: I have worked in both software development and application support. I have used Evernote since 2014; I believe that the first distribution I used was 8.xx. I also had recourse to Evernote Legacy at some point in the last couple of years to bypass an annoying bug, which got fixed.

I agree that Evernote Legacy was quite intuitive and had a very easy learning curve. There are one or two things about it that I frankly still miss. But today Evernote has grown into a completely different productivity app. Of the applications I use other than social media, I suppose I am in Evernote at least a third of the time.

Now, it is certainly possible for a mature application to become so feature-rich that it is topheavy, and I believe that this has happened for example to Microsoft Office, which I no longer use except as a dictation app. My usual remark about Microsoft Word is “Just the thing when you want a nice crunchy bowl of sparklines!” But Evernote is not at that point; it is not toppling with features. It is an application that takes time to learn to use, and more time to learn to use efficiently, but dedicating ths time is worth it. /panterazero

[basketballlarry 1]

I've used Evernote for several years now, but I'm looking for a new program now. Every time I log on you want me to upgrade I don't need an upgrade.  It is impossible to get ahold of Evernote.  Not good.  I used to be able to e-mail you now, I go around in circles.  Even this note probably wont get to the right people but I feel better.  

 

Looking for what Evernote use to be.

 

 

[PinkElephant 8,114]

There is no email access to support since long, and no support access for Basic/Free plans since long either.

You will get upgrade notifications if you use EN for Free. Either don’t use it for Free (it causes cost to carry your account), upgrade or accept the messaging as part of your own choice.

As it is your own choice which Note app to use. Nobody holds a gun to your head …

[ynsglr 0]

On 11.04.2022 at 21:43, PinkElephant said:

Belki de v10'u yeni bir uygulama olarak ele almak ve sadece kişisel (!) özellik setine ve görünüm ve hisle ilgili kişisel (!) izlenime dayalı olarak bir karar vermek gerçekten kötü bir fikir değildir. Birinin doğru hissetmeyen bir araç kullanması gerektiğini düşünmüyorum - bu, yetenek eksikliği kadar verimli bir kullanımı da engelleyecektir.

Kullanım durumları ve kullanım mutluluğu öznel olduğundan, burada kişisel görüşümüz hakkında tartışabiliriz. Ama hepimiz saygı duymalıyız, doğru ya da yanlış yoktur, sadece içgörüyü paylaşma şansı vardır.

Merhabalar, EN avukatı gibi konuşuyorsunuz. Fakat buna gerek yok. EN çok iyi program. Senelerdir kullanıyorum. Fakat yeni sürümler geldikçe yavaşlıyor, hantallaşıyor. Çok kötü duruma geldi. Yeni özelliklerin gelmesi kie faydası var. Mobil uygulama geç açılacaksa, notlar arası geçişler yavaş olursa kime ne faydası var. 1.5 senedir uygulama böyle. store puan 3,8 lere düşmüştü. Şimdi 4.0 lere çıkmış. Hala çok düşük. EN neden yavaşlama problemine çözüm bulmaz ki. Herkese diyorsunuz ki ; başka uygulama kullanınan ozaman. İnsanlar EN nin hatalarını söyleyince neden rahatsız oluyorsunuz.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

You don’t tell on which device, you don’t tell which functions you see as slow. I could name a few (a few because most functions today work as fast as necessary - there is no relevant difference between a note opening in 1.7 vs. 2.1 seconds), but it depends on the use cases, and the way you use EN to support them.

In general, the old legacy code base was dead even before the new client was prepared and launched. Maintenance was getting impossible, which everybody noticed who was using the old clients. Something had to happen, and it happened.

Now life is all about changes. Some you choose yourself, others may come after you, and you need to adapt to a changed situation. The only thing that is not available in the big plan of life is - no change. Personally I think it is better to welcome change as an opportunity than to mourn about what is now past.

EN offered the legacy clients (except for iOS, where in the AppStore it is technically not possible). This means that every user could review the new app, explore alternatives and then decide which course to take. I think fair enough - legally there is a maximum of a 1 year subscription period, and support for legacy is already going on for 1 1/2 year now. Sufficient time to see, evaluate, search and maybe switch to an alternative.

And no, I am just another user, paying my subscription as many of us, and stating my own thoughts and opinion here.

[tatertwo 0]

I agree. I'm ready to dump evernote.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

You agree to what ?

The old version is still around, and we agree: Not many features left before I can dump it, finally.

[RJLUK 307]

On 4/23/2022 at 11:15 PM, tatertwo said:

I agree. I'm ready to dump evernote.

@tatertwoOne post in 3 years? I'm not sure how we will cope without you.😂

[scojjac 61]

I get the frustration when an app you rely on doesn't work the way you expect. Tons of people have already moved on from Evernote and found solutions they like; a web search will find more "Evernote to X app" than "X app to Evernote" results, it seems like. But this discussion board is dominated by people who have stuck with Evernote through thick and thin. To me, this should be the place to share ideas, tips and tricks, and ways to improve the app and our own workflows. (I'd love for the subreddit to be that, too, instead of being dominated by complaints.) 

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Talking about frustrations:

1. For everybody sticking with old use cases or specific features discontinued with v10 there is still legacy around. Sure, it is a dead end, but it is not going over the cliff right away. Nobody has been forced to close a critical workflow up to now, 18 month into the transition.
2. The new version offers in total more opportunities than it creates in restrictions. Sure, if that one feature now missing is breaking your central workflow, you won’t be amused. But back to #1: There still is legacy, at least for now. So enough time for everybody to reassess the process and either adapt it or move to another platform.
3. Nobody can expect services and platforms to go on forever without changing things. And contrary to what some forum users are posting, it happens quite often that with new releases features of old versions are terminated. There is no birth right to have every feature of any software or service to be continued eternally. EN offers excellent ways to take the own data and move on. If there is another service better suited to host my data and workflows, why not. Personally I doubt that this has really happened in a large number of cases.

Frustration from change can only result if I expect any new day to be just a repetition of the last one. But case nobody told it yet: We are not living out personal Truman Show.

[AndrewDG 3]

I completely understand what you are saying. I used to *love* Evernote and frequently recommended it to people. Now I hesitate to do so, in case they experience some of the many frustrations I continue to have. I understand why programs have to be rewritten at times (see Firefox and Thunderbird for example) but it is really frustrating when basic functionality is lost in the process. For me, the new versions have no advantages, only disadvantages. I started to take notes on some of these and had a *very* unsatisfying email exchange with support over one issue (I have subsequently given up):

1. The messing up of headings and bullet points when pasting from Word (PC app). Wrote to Evernote about this but no reply from tech person for weeks! [Finally replied and I had a long, hopeless exchange]
2. The app never opens on the monitor I last used it on, but always opens on laptop screen. According to my research this is the fault of individual apps, not Windows.
3. I can't paste PDFs and other attachments into the app, I have to attach them by browsing (old app did this fine). [This has been fixed now, after a year or two]
4. When I add a tag to a note it sends the note to the top of the list, i.e. registers it as "modified". The old app didn't do this and was more logical.
   1. Moving a note seems to do the same.
5. Syncing in the iOS app is very slow and poor. Very frustrating when sharing a note, such as a list, and wanting to have two people constantly access it. Sometimes I have to choose the actual notebook the note is in, then pull down to manually sync it. The problem is that if I have accessed the note from the shortcuts, I am not in that notebook. Several wasted steps.
6. No facility to move the stored files to another directory. In fact, it looks like nothing is really stored now. The support people were no real help with this, except to say it couldn't be done (no real explanation).

There is a list of some of the issues. One would think that when rewriting software, one would check that all f the previous functionality is still working properly, and not just focus on the new toys. None of the above points were problems previously.

To those who say that "nothing stays the same": granted, however, I am talking about good/basic functionality, not particular features relating to redundant add-ons or whatever.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Just a comment on some points:

(3) No idea what you want to do, and say it doesn’t work any more. Can you explain ?

(4) One can argue about which action is an update, and which isn’t. It was defined in a certain way in the old clients, and in another in the new ones. For me the new way is more logical. When I add a tag or move it, it is an update to the note - even if I did not touch the content inside of the note.

(5) My experience is that sync is super fast on iOS. My wife and me share some notebooks, one with recipes. I discovered an interesting one, clipped it on my iPad, and moved the note into the shared notebook. She had it open by accident on her iPad. I could not even tell her that I will send her some new recipe - because before I could tell, it had already appeared on her view. So upsync to the server, save it to the database there and downsync to her iPad had all happened in less than say 10 seconds !

If you experience slow sync, it can have many reasons - most of them outside of EN.

(6) There is a full copy of the desktop client on the computer (if not deselected by the user) - it is for example used for offline work with EN. To install in a different place there is a method described in the forum (search for symbolic link). It is not official and used on your own peril, so support won’t tell, but it works and allows to install on another drive.

 

[AndrewDG 3]

The above list includes the first 6 issues I have had with the new Evernote. There are other problems that have arisen since I made that list. But to your questions:

(3) Previously I could copy a file (e.g. a PDF) and paste it (via ctrl+v) into a note. For many months I could not do this and had to browse to a directory and attach the file (multiple steps). As indicated above, this has been fixed now in the Windows app.

(4) Fair enough. I happen to see it differently, especially as I often add tags at a later date for the purpose of searchability, not to change the content of the note. Given that it is a change, giving users a choice would be helpful.

(5) I have seen that contributors to these forums have had very different experiences. One commented on being in a country that doesn't have EN servers (I am in NZ, not sure it that makes a difference). Another obvious factor is the speed of the internet. This hasn't changed for me, and I use EN on 4G data as well as wifi. The change is noticeable before and after the new version, not in my internet provider. My iPhone is quite old (8) but apparently others are still able to use EN on version 6s and 7 (several have trouble on v.6). If my phone can take the latest iOS, which it can, I expect the app to be able to function well, especially if it's simply a matter of syncing data  I also have shared notebooks and this has been a huge source of frustration to me,

Most recently I have had a terrible time trying to take notes on my phone. Whenever I pause from note taking, the screen goes back, and I turn it on again, or if I quickly check another app and return to EN, I frequently experience the loss of text. I have experimented with not tapping the "tick", tapping it once, tapping it multiple times. It seems to make no difference. Sometimes it also creates a copy of the note with either a blank title or with the title but no text. In short, it is extremely unreliable and frustrating. This seems to be worse in the latest version.

(6) The old version enabled one to install the (Windows) program where I install all my programs but simply move the data file (in my case, to an encrypted volume). There is no facility to do this any longer. Not a big deal to most people but it was significant to me for a period of time. Again, it represents a loss of features/functionality. I have used symbolic links on a Mac but my personal computer is a PC. My devices are iOS.

I hope this explains things more clearly.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Some comments:

(5) We have to keep in mind that Apple supports devices for a very long time with new iOS releases. The oldest iPad able to run iOS 15 and EN iOS is the iPad Air 2, released 2014. The oldest iPhone is the 6S/6S+, released 2015.

The transistor count of these old devices is appr. 1/10th of an iPhone 13 (and less than that compared to the M1 chips on the new iPad Air/Pro). With all optimism: This is noticeable for sure.

What you describe speaks for another problem: Batteries age with loading cycles. When they age, the voltage on the device drops off. A lower voltage means the SOC, the main processor will run on a lower clock speed. This reduces computing power very significantly.

If you have a chance get it checked by an Apple service. If it is below 80% it should be replaced. Here in Europe a new battery including work and materials is 55€ for an older iPhone. You will feel the change immediately.

(6) There is no need to move anything to another drive for encryption. Both Windows and Mac have tools in the OS that will encrypt the drives on the computer by default. No problem, just needs to be switched on.

SymLinks are a natural on a Mac, but they work as well on Windows. I think using them is safe - the EN master copy is on the server anyhow.

In general no completely new software needs to have all features of a prior version - there is no law and no rule to that. Since it was clear some features will take time to implement, the legacy client was and is available. So nobody can claim on desktop that anything would actually be missing.

A user can still completely ignore there is a new version, and continue with legacy.

On iOS it is different, the AppStore does not allow for older versions. But the iOS client is already much better than the old one has ever been. So IMHO no problem there.

[Amarna 5]

 

On 4/9/2022 at 5:45 PM, Chris Darby said:

@JohnLongney, @Boot17  I'm walking away with a couple of significant "lessons learned" from the year-long experience. First, it was foolish of me to become so dependent on Evernote as my "auxiliary brain" and use it as a catch-all, and from this I'm taking steps towards becoming more cognizant and accountable for how I manage my information (less of a "tag it, store it and forget it" mentality).

I've been with Evernote since 2014 and initially I loved it, installing it on 3 devices - tablet, laptop and maybe a phone (it's been a long time so memory is sketchy but regardless back then, Evernote didn't have a limit of the number of devices one could have the Evernote app but anyone can correct me).

Each time there was an upgrade there would invariably be some kind of technical issue. That should have been my first sign to find another provider where the features would be more stable and reliable. Finally in 2017, I took a hike and I haven't created any new notes but my account still has lingering notes that I have yet to transfer/export.

Learned about Nimbus and did register an account but haven't truly relied on its offerings. Instead, it's always been Google who has been steady and true - despite Google's tendency to drop some of their apps, such as Hangout but usually leading to better apps in a more encompassing Voice.

Anyhow, I stopped by to check on one note file and that particular file always remind me of the ability to password protect that entire file instead of what some help article states that I can encrypt select content within the note. Welp, I'm not as tech savvy as many of you but I can manage my way around the fundamental features of an app. Every time I right click on a highlighted text, it just pulls up the universal right mouse click menu options with no encryption.

To anchor back to your comments, totally can empathize and understand. Don't hitch one's wagon too comfortably to just one platform. Have to be flexible to switch course in midstream.

I got myself into a pickle with conflicting notes in Evernote (which working with multiple devices, I can blame only myself for not being more careful in syncing any revision before modifying the same note with another device). Forgot what was the final straw but can't say I want to return except for that one note I still revise every blue moon. Disappointed with the loss of the encryption for an entire note (or I'm in the dark about the new secret method cause what's spelled out in the help article does not work).

Then again, Google doesn't explicitly have a password-protection for its files either. But with Google, I do have a suite of various record/document creation and storage apps all tied together. Much as I do hate to admit it (cause I'm not a fan of big tech), Google has served me well.

Back to my updating with whatever encryption discussion of late....

[gewappnet 79]

2 minutes ago, Amarna said:

I've been with Evernote since 2014 and initially I loved it, installing it on 3 devices - tablet, laptop and maybe a phone (it's been a long time so memory is sketchy but regardless back then, Evernote didn't have a limit of the number of devices one could have the Evernote app but anyone can correct me).

Each time there was an upgrade there would invariably be some kind of technical issue. That should have been my first sign to find another provider where the features would be more stable and reliable. Finally in 2017, I took a hike and I haven't created any new notes but my account still has lingering notes that I have yet to transfer/export.

Then your experiences have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Here it is about the completely new version of Evernote that came out in 2020 and the cry to bring back Evernote as it was before. So actually the people complaining in this thread want exactly the Evernote version back that was the reason for you to leave Evernote.

[Amarna 5]

3 minutes ago, gewappnet said:

Then your experiences have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Here it is about the completely new version of Evernote that came out in 2020 and the cry to bring back Evernote as it was before. So actually the people complaining in this thread want exactly the Evernote version back that was the reason for you to leave Evernote.

Actually I would have liked to see the old version and I was agreeing with Chris Darby's points.

[bmcl26 488]

I must admit, I have used EN since 2011 and tha vast improvement since V10 is outstanding, It has turned me from an occasional user to a power user, the the Dashboard  to my online life a one stop shop wher I can access everything I need.

Hugh thank you to the staff.

[agsteele 2,950]

1 hour ago, Amarna said:

Actually I would have liked to see the old version and I was agreeing with Chris Darby's points.

Which has not gone away. You can choose to use it instead of v10. Either, or, both are all options.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Just to make it easier for you guys:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052560314-Install-an-older-version-of-Evernote

I hardly use legacy my more, just for a small set of useful functions that have not yet made it into v10.

[Frki2 76]

On 6/8/2022 at 10:33 PM, PinkElephant said:

Just to make it easier for you guys:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052560314-Install-an-older-version-of-Evernote

I hardly use legacy my more, just for a small set of useful functions that have not yet made it into v10.

From curiosity point, which set of functions you still miss from legacy?

And form my side, new updates on Mac really made v10 pleasant to work with..no problems. If they would make it work again with Alfred or Spotlight it would be perfect.

Ipad version is still meh and needs a lot of upgrade.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

For me legacy is still useful for

1. Tag review and management - it has a page with a better overview
2. Moving a set of notes to another notebook - this is the only operation where legacy is still a lot faster
3. Better print control

Since I don’t print often, the two other functions are not necessary for my day to day use.

In my opinion the iPad version is better than anything we ever had. It just lacks multitasking.

[gewappnet 79]

6 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

In my opinion the iPad version is better than anything we ever had. It just lacks multitasking.

PDF annotations were obviously better before. And drag & drop of documents worked already in the pre-v10 versions. 

[agsteele 2,950]

23 minutes ago, gewappnet said:

PDF annotations were obviously better before.

I can't say that I'd noticed... I annotate PDFs in just the same way as ever.  That's not to say that it wasn't a better process for you - just that these performance issues are far from being the same for every user. And that's what makes a redesign so challenging. I concur that drag & drop is not working in Windows as it should. Anything in a container has to go via the desktop. But I understand that for Mac users that issue was fixed a long time back.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

The mentioned problem with pdf annotation on the iPad is an unfixed bug. It prevents zooming in in annotation mode.

It zooms in viewer mode, and it zooms in annotation mode on the iPhone. It is quite obviously a bug when the mobile client runs on an iPad.

But it still annotates in page view, so it depends on what you need to do. Placing an arrow, writing some text or blurring an area works even in this view. Precisely highlighting a single word is difficult.

My ticket on this was acknowledged and closed, as usual no time to a fix given.

[gewappnet 79]

39 minutes ago, agsteele said:

I can't say that I'd noticed... I annotate PDFs in just the same way as ever. 

On the iPad? I don't think so. PDF annotations on the iPad (and NOT on the iPhone!) are broken since 2020. Please explain to me how you are able to do annotations in this view. This is the ONLY available zoom option.

[agsteele 2,950]

The problem with long, mixed content, threads is that the focus of a conversation can become lost.  I wasn't commenting on the iPad but it wasn't clear to me that was what you had in mind. My apologies for that.

I was saying, that, in general, I, personally, had not noticed any problems but I concur that each of us has very different experiences. I hope we can be clear about our personal challenges as well as making clear what we are discussing. I'll try to do better in the future.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

It is possible to take every argument to extremes. Especially if a example is picked that does not reflect the typical situation. I have annotated a standard pdf on my iPad Air, using my Apple Pencil. This is the result. As a conclusion, as I said above, boxes, arrows and symbols work. The highlighting of a line of text is slightly off the actual text. I would prefer this zooming issue to be fixed - but it is not a killer problem for me, it is a mild restriction.

Others doing a lot of research probably see it as more important - but still, we are discussing one detail. Who does professional annotation should anyhow use an app like PDF Expert, that offers a completely superior range of annotation and editing tools.

The legibility of the original pdf is far better - the slightly blurred text is a result from posting the screenshot here.

 

[gewappnet 79]

1 minute ago, PinkElephant said:

It is possible to take every argument to extremes.

My example above is not an extreme. That is a typical preprint publication I normally have to annotate. It is literally not possible for me to read the text because it is so small.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

And where is the contradiction to what I posted ?

2nd paragraph as a hint …

[Frki2 76]

12 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

In my opinion the iPad version is better than anything we ever had. It just lacks multitasking.

I dont know how was before, but this one misses:

1.keyword support

2. multiple/splited screens

3.bugs - as for example new iOs widget with tasks and than opening of that new task in ipad

4. tasks management - pretty bad on ipad

5. Finnaly missing of spotlight/search usage

[PinkElephant 8,114]

1) What do you mean ?

2) Was never supported, old version or new. Which is not good, but it is no set back when comparing.

3) The widgets have just been released. If they don't work, contact support.

4) Better bad (v10) than none (old versions) - and I think it is better than "pretty bad". It is no full task manager - I see Tasks in EN as a way to make notes actionable.

5) Has been removed AFAIK quite a while ago. Since each app runs in a sandbox, I don't think spotlight has an easy way to access the notes content. Not even sure if this an EN issue, or a iOS issue. There is no spotlight search for Things 3 either, just for example. The only apps I get offered in spotlight are iOS system apps.

[Frki2 76]

On 6/11/2022 at 8:12 PM, PinkElephant said:

1) What do you mean ?

2) Was never supported, old version or new. Which is not good, but it is no set back when comparing.

3) The widgets have just been released. If they don't work, contact support.

4) Better bad (v10) than none (old versions) - and I think it is better than "pretty bad". It is no full task manager - I see Tasks in EN as a way to make notes actionable.

5) Has been removed AFAIK quite a while ago. Since each app runs in a sandbox, I don't think spotlight has an easy way to access the notes content. Not even sure if this an EN issue, or a iOS issue. There is no spotlight search for Things 3 either, just for example. The only apps I get offered in spotlight are iOS system apps.

1. no keyboard shortcuts support on ipad, makes it unusuable if you want to use it seriously like other productivity apps on ipad.

2. I belive it was never supported but that is not excuse that you dont support it if you launch new redesigned app.

3. Agree

4.Again, very bad task editing on ipad, and i know there was no tasks before, but this way of editing tasks on ipad is pretty bad.

5. Yeah, i know, but this is one of things that is really influencing quick work on ipad. Step forward is widget with search, but still without split screens it is pretty useless.đ

6. And finaly, very bad pencil support.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

1) Wrong - get a keyboard, open edit mode, long press on the <cmd> key shows the available keyboard shortcuts. Less than on the Mac, but available.

2) This thread is called "Give us the old ... back". Now you post "OK, it was never supported, but I would still like to get it". Know what: Open your own thread if you want new, additional features ... I would recommend one thread per item. You may search before to see if there already are threads on some topics.

3) ...

4) ... see my answer to 2)

5) ... see my answer to 2)

6) You need to elaborate a bit what you do mean by "very bad pencil support". It has the same support as in other apps - depending on your use case. Then it depends on having a Pencil 1 or a Pencil 2 (which depends on your iPad version). It works pretty well in the Sketch mode, it works in annotation mode - that is as far as it goes. You can use the iOS Scribble feature to enter text as well, if you wish. Specialized handwriting apps will do a better job, but this is why they are specialized for exactly this job.

For text editing I never found the pencil really the number one device, with no app. You can use a Trackpad or even a Mouse, which is IMHO the adequate tool for text editing.

And pencil support certainly was worse in the old version, that did not have the Sketch feature. So see again answer to 2) ...

[dmb, lmt 0]

This upgrade is horrific.  They ruined a really great working program.  Now there are features I cannot access.  Support is worse than their new upgrade.  Is there any way to get the old version back.  I'm not paying for this disaster of an upgrade.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

This posting is thin hot air.

Features - Which ?

Support - has not changed, response time is pretty good since last year.

And if you haven‘t found this yet, to avoid a search for you:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052560314-Install-an-older-version-of-Evernote

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,959]

On 6/14/2022 at 5:22 PM, dmb, lmt said:

Now there are features I cannot access.

Can you be specific about this? There were some features (like import folders) which were unavailable initially but have come back. There are others that are gone for good.

[Maru1 5]

For 2 main reasons I hate the new version aswell and I've been messaging support for more than one year now about it and I keep getting promises, but they're never implemented. (Even though they would be totally easy to do)

1. Fast alphabetical scroll has been removed with the new version

2. Much worse the forced start with the new home menu that I totally dislike. I get it, everybody has their preferances, but why not make it optional? It is lessening my productivity, when all I want is to start with my previous view or the notes list.

3. The search function that doesn't start to show results immediately when entering letters

 

 

I also believe that the developers made a step backwards with the new version unfortunately.

[agsteele 2,950]

Answered elsewhere. Please avoid multiple identical posts.

[panterazero 12]

I have read the discussion about adding wildcards at the beginning and end of a search term, and I understand why it is impossible. However, would it be possible to add wildcards within the bounds of a search term, e. g. 12/*/2020 would return all dates in December 2020? Yours, panterazero

[agsteele 2,950]

No. The date format in searches is yyyymmdd

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/208313828-Use-advanced-search-syntax

If you are searching for text in a note then that would still not work. Perhaps you have tried and discovered that. If you write all your dates in the ISO format then you could search for 202012 or 2020/12

I'm not sure how effective it would be. They let would be always writing a date in that format.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

If such a search would be required with some frequency, it is possible to tag the notes. A tag for the year plus a second one for the month allow a lot of combinations.

To apply the tags one can use the date search, plus the multiselection of notes to do it efficiently.

[JR in TX 0]

On 3/29/2022 at 6:00 PM, MalSproull said:

Can I just check that I am understanding this correctly?  Has my history of note taking prior to 2016 been deleted?  If so I would call that criminal. I've been using evernote since around 2010 and it held a lot of historical info for me. I chose it because of the name EVERnote.  What am I missing????

That is entirely possible. I had two EN accounts - personal and commercial (office).  When the big switch took place my office account was toast.   I complained to tech support - nothing but a couple of email exchanges.  Then,  some of my office notebooks turned up in my personal account.   I still use EN, but on a guarded basis.

 

[Tim Y 0]

Yes! Older versions were better. does anyone know how to stop the constant reminders to upgrade to the newest Evernote version (which I have already installed BTW).

Thanks,

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,959]

1 hour ago, Tim Y said:

Yes! Older versions were better. does anyone know how to stop the constant reminders to upgrade to the newest Evernote version (which I have already installed BTW).

Thanks,

 

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,959]

3 hours ago, JR in TX said:

On 3/29/2022 at 7:00 PM, MalSproull said:

Can I just check that I am understanding this correctly?  Has my history of note taking prior to 2016 been deleted?  If so I would call that criminal. I've been using evernote since around 2010 and it held a lot of historical info for me. I chose it because of the name EVERnote.  What am I missing????

That is entirely possible. I had two EN accounts - personal and commercial (office).  When the big switch took place my office account was toast.   I complained to tech support - nothing but a couple of email exchanges.  Then,  some of my office notebooks turned up in my personal account.   I still use EN, but on a guarded basis.

@JR in TX, you're quoting a question from over 3 months ago, which misunderstood the post just prior to it. In that post, @PinkElephant was talking about the legacy app, i.e., Evernote v. 6, which is still downloadable and usable, but which is not the basis for Evernote's future development. That post had nothing to do with data before 2016. If @MalSproull wants to check whether notes before 2016 have been deleted, they can simply look and see; since they didn't say that that happened, perhaps they look and saw that everything was fine. We don't know.

When your office account disappeared, did you contact support? What did they have to say? That would certainly be a huge problem.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

The old „business“ accounts had 2 sections under one account, company and personal. Although it was easier to handle notes between the two, it had some sever shortcomings.

First it did not clearly separate between company and personal data. In case a user left the company it was not clear what he could take with him, and what had to stay. Don‘t tell me „Haw, haw, but I‘m the owner, nobody will fire me“ - what if you decide you will sell, or if the company goes belly up, and you are not allowed to take any data with you ?

Second the Admin necessary for company use could not be effective, or in case he was, he had control of personal data as well.

So EN redesigned the business (later renamed Teams) account. When an old account was split between the new company (Business/Teams) and the new personal (Personal) account, it tried to split data correctly between the two. Who had set it up according to the design, and kept it cleanly separat probably had no problems. Who had mixed things up did have problems. 

But no data got lost - it may just be that a notebook expected in the Personal or the Business section ended up in the other pool. In this case the data needs to be moved to the right side of the split. Who says only a part of his data showed up in his account (Singular, means there is only one) has not understood the split, and has somehow managed to loose access to the second account.

Talking to support and the admin of the business account should do to sort it out.

[JR in TX 0]

1 hour ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

When your office account disappeared, did you contact support? What did they have to say? That would certainly be a huge problem.

Yes it did.  Yes it was -  and is.

As stated, there were multiple emails exchanged.  I was initially given some bland response.  Then, SOME of the stacks appeared in my personal account.   To this day, I cannot say what is missing.  I know the office stacks got significantly smaller in size.   

Hence, my warning that it is  possible to that some data could have been lost when transitioning from the old to the new format.   Now, I will only use EN with the knowledge that my data could be lost or destroyed with an unannounced change from the EN developers.

51 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Second the Admin necessary for company use could not be effective, or in case he was, he had control of personal data as well.

So EN redesigned the business (later renamed Teams) account. When an old account was split between the new company (Business/Teams) and the new personal (Personal) account, it tried to split data correctly between the two. Who had set it up according to the design, and kept it cleanly separat probably had no problems. Who had mixed things up did have problems. 

Thank you for that explanation. 

51 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

But no data got lost - it may just be that a notebook expected in the Personal or the Business section ended up in the other pool. In this case the data needs to be moved to the right side of the split. Who says only a part of his data showed up in his account (Singular, means there is only one) has not understood the split, and has somehow managed to loose access to the second account.

Excuse me, but I have to call BS on that statement.    Data is LOST when you open an account, no matter the data host, and that data isn't where it is supposed to be.  As I said, after contacting tech support -- some -- of it reappeared.

No worries.  I will still use EN, as I think it offers the most features of the many note taking products.  I really need the  multi-platform feature along with OCR.

However, I will not trust that the EN developers won't pull the rug out from under me again.  At this point, it is a trust issue.

 

 

 

[Scott T. 662]

23 minutes ago, JR in TX said:

Data is LOST when you open an account, no matter the data host, and that data isn't where it is supposed to be.

I think this makes sense to you as a user, but is not so clear to Evernote. Our older design where a personal account was tied to a business account with the drop-down to easily switch between the two led to users not having a clear delineation between the two accounts. Many users had cases where business data was in the personal account or potentially vice-versa.

When we decided to change the business accounts to have a clear separation, we needed to take a best guess at where data would belong (personal or business account) when they were separated.

If we tried to take guesses at which data on the personal side belonged on the business side, that could be disastrous. The data would now belong to the business and if a user was removed from the business, they would lose access to that data. So the safest thing to do was to leave any data that lived in the personal account there, and provide users with a tool to migrate data from a personal account to a business account. That way the user could decide which data belonged in the business account. Any solution that tried to be smarter had potential for getting it wrong and legally we did not feel comfortable trying to make those decisions in an automated way. FWIW, we had a LOT of discussions about that. We considered having a whole tool during the account split process where a user could choose which notes/notebooks to move, but it made the split process even more complicated than it already is and we wanted to try to make the process seamless.

I hope this helps explain things. If you are really having issues with perceived data loss, please reach out to me privately and I can try to assist with locating those items. 

[JR in TX 0]

53 minutes ago, Scott T. said:

I think this makes sense to you as a user, but is not so clear to Evernote. Our older design where a personal account was tied to a business account with the drop-down to easily switch between the two led to users not having a clear delineation between the two accounts. Many users had cases where business data was in the personal account or potentially vice-versa.

Pardon me but that response is more of a justification as to what happened. 

I don't dispute the designer's thinking -- your explanation makes some sense.  But, not completely, since now I have company data in my personal account as a result of this "improvement to data management."   As, I represent a small business, it won't matter in my case.  I cannot, and do not,  speak for others on this forum. At the time of this "account split"   I had personal information, company information and an employee sharing the company information between us. All paid accounts.  I am the Admin to that account.  Or, what was that account.  I no longer have company information stored in EN and have closed the employee's account.

I do maintain and somewhat use EN on a personal (subscription) basis. 

 

53 minutes ago, Scott T. said:

When we decided to change the business accounts to have a clear separation, we needed to take a best guess at where data would belong (personal or business account) when they were separated.

What EN should have done.  was announce they had identified a potential data management issue for commercial users.  Then, announced they were going to introduce a fix and offered a migration path.   Not have the user base wake up one morning to find the mess they did.

53 minutes ago, Scott T. said:

I hope this helps explain things. If you are really having issues with perceived data loss, please reach out to me privately and I can try to assist with locating those items. 

Well, I thank you for the explanation.    Yes, I really had issues with lost data.   That was months ago and I consider it history.  Since I don't know what nor how much is gone, it isn't worth my time to try and figure it out.  My whole point of participating in this dialog was to respond to a post that data could  be lost.  I have experienced this. I have not taken any pokes at the new improved version of EN, although I tend to agree with the postings illustrating it's short comings.  My philosophy there is that the old version is gone.  No point crying about it.  The new version will eventually improve.  We just have to learn the new interface.  I did put forth that effort and it seems OK now.

 Oddly enough, what has prompted me to log into this forum again started last week with my wife purchasing a new iPad and her asking me about "note taking" apps - particularly hand writing recognition and the ability to edit PDFs.     I dragged out EN.  She remembered my fits over it and reluctantly said she would look at it but politely decided to do her own research.  I installed it on her iPad using my account so she could see existing data and experiment as much as she wanted. 

While familiarizing myself with any updates, I noticed my subscription  was set to expire in several days.  I decided it was worth not only maintaining it but the upgraded level appeared to offer some value to me.  I decided to renew and upgrade..  To my surprise and annoyance, the system would not permit it.  Hmmm..???

This resulted in my reaching out to tech support asking how I could not only maintain my subscription but upgrade.   They sent back a list of steps that includes cancelling my existing subscription.     I have yet to perform this as I am really concerned that my account may become burnt toast. 

So, as of this moment, I am considering whether to just let the subscription lapse, or wait until it expires and see what renewal at my current level will be.   EN (the company) is flaky enough that I may not want to spend any more money than has already been invested.

Respectfully

[PinkElephant 8,114]

There was a migration path, and there was a lot of documentation. Just a little reading stuff:

This document describes the migration from old to new business accounts, step by step:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/4409187718931

This document helps with the new account structure:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/115006310828

Here is a Quick Start guide:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/208314358

This document is for the admin job:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/209005497

To wrap it up, EN Teams (Business) is made to set up structures for companies and organizations. What you describe is likely at the low edge of that model - too few participants to really make use of the features specific to the Business / Teams plan. So probably you were admin of that account (because there needs to be one), but it seems the admin job was not really filled.

Otherwise IMHO it would have been a no brainer to make the switch. AFAIK no account was ever converted without the owner and admin being informed. Maybe you did not take it serious enough, but I am pretty sure it was announced, and you confirmed it before it was executed (see the migration help document).

EN made the right move to set up a new data model that is compliant with security and privacy rules and legislation. Probably your use case was not typical for this use, because it was out of scope for the Business accounts in general. From what you told a (then) Premium or (today) Professional account, plus a Free account for you single employee would have done the job as well.

The milk was spilled, it seems. 

[JR in TX 0]

5 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Otherwise IMHO it would have been a no brainer to make the switch. AFAIK no account was ever converted without the owner and admin being informed. Maybe you did not take it serious enough, but I am pretty sure it was announced, and you confirmed it before it was executed (see the migration help document).

in your humble opinion.  And As far as you know  Both subjective points.  Of the links you provided, were they published prior to the change?  Judging from the backlash of negative remarks scattered across the internet about EN's change, I stand by my opinion, which I am expressing as politely as possible,  that EN failed in their roll out.

So, what we are left with is a situation where EN has to earn my trust before I take them seriously because they are likely to change their model without warning.  I am willing to look the product again.  Note: this means I am willing to pay for their product since developers need to eat.  

 

5 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

So probably you were admin of that account (because there needs to be one), but it seems the admin job was not really filled.

Please, expand on how you arrived at this opinion.

 

 

 

 

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Truth lies in the eye of the beholder.

EN up to my observation does not release new features without the help documents. I posted the 4 documents I found to be most relevant, out of 150 you get in total when searching for Business in the EN database. To get release dates you may ask EN support.

We have some (but not many) postings in the forum about separating the old business account into the split structure with the new EN Business/teams. There are 2 main issues: One believe (against the legal situation) that the step was not necessary, the others claim that notes were moved to the wrong account. It showed in the discussion that usually the business and private data in the old account had not been kept separate. The data could be located in the „other“ account. I don‘t remember a permanent loss of data.

These threads show as well that the migration strategy has been in place when the new structure was rolled out, and that it worked. The shift was going on for several years, because EN initially forced nobody to make the move.

About your own role: I do not intend to offend you by pointing to some IMHO pretty obvious points. But without feedback no improvement.

One is that the use of Business for such a small group of persons was likely overkill. The other (linked to the first) is that the admin role was probably lived out in reality more as a „light admin“, comparable to every user managing his own account. For a very small number of account users the business admin will not really need to work. As an example: How do you set up a „Space“ when there are only 2 or 3 users ? This low admin input probably then showed in the transition problems.

Just my view as another user - take it as you wish, or ignore.

[JR in TX 0]

8 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

EN up to my observation does not release new features without the help documents. I posted the 4 documents I found to be most relevant, out of 150 you get in total when searching for Business in the EN database. To get release dates you may ask EN support.

And, they do make sense -- today.  We are, at least I am, discussing something that happened a two years ago.(Timeline corrected.  I lost a year due to COVID)   EN has had time to produce plenty of documents since their changes to the data structures.     I don't need to to play sleuth with tech support. 

There was a major shift in how EN decided to structure their data management.   I am not disagreeing with their motives or with their strategy for long-term management. I do disagree with their implementation.  I just don't trust the fact that they did so without warning and what prevents this from happening again?  Nothing.

As an individual user, I would not have noticed - except  for the new UI.  As a  business, that move was unacceptable as it demonstrated that my data was compromised.  In the world of data management a product that compromises data is just.... unacceptable.   This is why I said, I might use EN personally, but not for anything serious that is business related.

20 hours ago, Scott T. said:

Our older design where a personal account was tied to a business account with the drop-down to easily switch between the two led to users not having a clear delineation between the two accounts. Many users had cases where business data was in the personal account or potentially vice-versa.

As Scott T pointed out - this older structure had the potential to be  confusing to the user, but apparently led to trouble on the backside of the UI separating data sets and thus compromised good security management practices.   IMHO I doubt EN was initially designed with that type of use in mind - multi-user / corporate vs single-user /individual/professional.   

8 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

One is that the use of Business for such a small group of persons was likely overkill.

I don't really understand your statement.  If you are implying the EN is so robust and complicated to administer, it should not be used for small businesses, then I would say the are not marketing it correctly.  Because, I have never seen EN mentioned when it comes to corporate document or information management systems.   

On the other hand, again IMHO, EN should be no more difficult to administer than corporate level Dropbox.   Which works fine for small businesses.  Dropbox can, and does, often replace the need for a dedicated server or NAS in many small businesses. And, it takes very little effort to set up decent security.

 

While this is been an enlightening discussion, I will go back to my corner and review the  products currently on the market for note taking, PDF editing and perhaps cross platform work environments.

 

Thank you for your time.