Evernote for Mac 6: Design Feedback

[Jackolicious 808]

Hey Evernote land!

 

We've just launched a newly redesigned Evernote for Mac and we'd love your feedback. There has already been quite a lot of discussion, so let me sum up what we understand from it so far:

 

Text contrast: We've attempted to improve text legibility significantly from version 5. This is directly in response to your feedback. We have several upcoming updates that take even further steps to respond to your feedback and bump contrast even more! 

 

Light background: With the new version, we have adopted many of Apple's design queues from Mac OS X Yosemite (10.10). Lighter backgrounds and translucency (what Apple calls Vibrancy) are among the design themes for Apple's new OS (our new home). We've worked closely with Apple and their design guidelines to craft a beautiful new look without removing any existing functionality. Users on Yosemite should now see that Evernote fits right in. Users on 10.9: we’ve heard your feedback and you should see more contrast coming back to your UI in versions 6.0.2 and above.

 

If you have any additional feedback, please feel free to voice it below. Please keep the discussion constructive. We read every post, we put our hearts into this product, this is our life's work, and we love your feedback. It only helps us get better. 

 

[Michael_Costa 2]

One quick question for EN Desktop Product rep Jackolicious:

In the previous thread on the new color theme, upon Locking the thread you mentioned that "Many of the concerns here have been addressed with 6.0.2".  I have 6.0.2 on my system and the new color scheme situation (which was the primary concern in that thread) was not addressed at all.  How was the "concern" "addressed" in 6.0.2?  I don't find an option to revert to the previous scheme or an option for customization of shading.  What am I missing?

Many thanks for your help.

 

6.0.2 appeared to slightly darken the background of the sidebar, thus allowing it to be better discerned from the section immediately to its right.  It is a very slight improvement, no question.

I think there's more to do here though.  

 

And a a Premium user, I'm a little bothered by the political style response from Evernote, almost denying the issue.  Of course those in the forums will be a vocal minority but the swing of opinion here shouldn't be ignored or denied.

[Ko107 1]

The lines around the notes are WAY TOO THIN.

Thanks.

[Mel Matsuoka 18]

 

I dont care what view you chose....

The sidebar in std Yosemite Finder DOES NOT have coloured ICONS... 

 

That is NOT the standard or default YOSEMITE LOOK! Infact the look you posted looks VERY different to the default yosemite look... That looks more like a previous Apple OS.

 

I disagree with your unquestioning loyalty to the new Evernote 6 UI design, but in the interest of fairness, I do believe you are correct that JMichael's Finder screen grab portrays an inaccurate view of the "real" Yosemite Finder. It appears that he is using the "TotalFinder" tweak, which restores colored sidebar icons, as well as the characteristic "Chrome" style tabs:

 

http://totalfinder.binaryage.com/tweaks

 

None of this changes the fact that Apple's UI & usability standards for the Finder are extremely questionable, as I posted about in another thread. This is not just a simple issue of being "resistant to change". As a matter of fact, on the whole, I totally love the new Yosemite UI. But monochrome/low-contrast sidebars still makes for extremely bad usability. Your point about how a background app appears when another app is in the foreground, such as Safari, is well taken...but it seems like truly grasping at straws to defend the value of the new low-con EN6 look with that specific use case. I'd hazard to guess that most people are more concerned with how the app they're running in the foreground looks, even if the UI design of an underlying background app may look more distracting than they would prefer.

[JMichaelTX 4,108]

@Mel:  You are correct.  I do have TotalFinder installed, and had forgotten about it.

 

I'll provide an update and comparison later, but my main points in showing the Yosemite Finder are:

1. Clarity in fonts used in the sidebar, size, weight, etc -- very readable
2. Items currently selected are clearly highlighted by a very visible background color.
3. The main body does is opaque.
4. All of the icons/buttons are large enough to be easily identifiable
5. The selected icon is clearly indicated by a highlighted background

EN Mac 6.0.2 does not do any of these nearly as well as the Finder.  So when it is claimed that Evernote is just "following" Apple, it seems to me that they have fallen way short.

 

I do believe you are correct that JMichael's Finder screen grab portrays an inaccurate view of the "real" Yosemite Finder. It appears that he is using the "TotalFinder" tweak, which restores colored sidebar icons, as well as the characteristic "Chrome" style tabs:.

 

 

[Mel Matsuoka 18]

 

EN Mac 6.0.2 does not do any of these nearly as well as the Finder.  So when it is claimed that Evernote is just "following" Apple, it seems to me that they have fallen way short.

 

 

 

What's horrible about this statement is that--despite my overall approval of the new Yosemite UI conventions--I think a lot of people would agree (including John Siracusa) that the Finder still remains the one major UI blunder Apple made in Yosemite.

 

Saying that Finder does anything better than Evernote 6 is a rather scathing indictment of the Evernote 6 UI.

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

Question what would you like to be green?

 

 

Green is traditional evernote colours... HOWEVER... Before we had tags etc as green on white background... That is very bad for visibility... Blue does a lot more justice from a visual point of view in my opinion.

 

This is a good point. I suppose I imagined UI designers with far greater creativity than me would be able to come up with something. A few places might be the tag "pill". Also, any interface elements that get highlighted when enabled, or the "Add a reminder to NOTEBOOK X" text which is currently in a light blue could potentially be made green. 

 

That being said, making any text green could be misleading as it might be confused with note links. 

While I agree with Chirmer about the green, and I don't want to speak for her, I think for me and I'm assuming for her, the desire for green is very low on the design priority list. 

[lykoz 147]

 

 

I dont care what view you chose....

The sidebar in std Yosemite Finder DOES NOT have coloured ICONS... 

 

That is NOT the standard or default YOSEMITE LOOK! Infact the look you posted looks VERY different to the default yosemite look... That looks more like a previous Apple OS.

 

I disagree with your unquestioning loyalty to the new Evernote 6 UI design, but in the interest of fairness, I do believe you are correct that JMichael's Finder screen grab portrays an inaccurate view of the "real" Yosemite Finder. It appears that he is using the "TotalFinder" tweak, which restores colored sidebar icons, as well as the characteristic "Chrome" style tabs:

 

http://totalfinder.binaryage.com/tweaks

 

None of this changes the fact that Apple's UI & usability standards for the Finder are extremely questionable, as I posted about in another thread. This is not just a simple issue of being "resistant to change". As a matter of fact, on the whole, I totally love the new Yosemite UI. But monochrome/low-contrast sidebars still makes for extremely bad usability. Your point about how a background app appears when another app is in the foreground, such as Safari, is well taken...but it seems like truly grasping at straws to defend the value of the new low-con EN6 look with that specific use case. I'd hazard to guess that most people are more concerned with how the app they're running in the foreground looks, even if the UI design of an underlying background app may look more distracting than they would prefer.

 

Your points are well taken. And they make sense.

 

 

However monochrome sidebar is the same in finder, mail, contacts, reminders... And just about every apple app...

 

So only thing I don't understand is how you can be on-board with Yosemite UI but not with Evernote's integration of the same principles.

 

I am not saying Evernote look can not be improved... I just like the fact that are on-board with yosemite..

I also believe improvement needs to be left up to designers... Its not for us to say how it should be, because hollistic design has a lot of professional aspects to consider. I understand fielding your displeasure... Or asking for improvements... However when the thread starter spoke of those improvements, a lot of posters wanted to jump away from yosemite principles altogether.

[lykoz 147]

 

@Mel:  You are correct.  I do have TotalFinder installed, and had forgotten about it.

 

I'll provide an update and comparison later, but my main points in showing the Yosemite Finder are:

1. Clarity in fonts used in the sidebar, size, weight, etc -- very readable
2. Items currently selected are clearly highlighted by a very visible background color.
3. The main body does is opaque.
4. All of the icons/buttons are large enough to be easily identifiable
5. The selected icon is clearly indicated by a highlighted background

EN Mac 6.0.2 does not do any of these nearly as well as the Finder.  So when it is claimed that Evernote is just "following" Apple, it seems to me that they have fallen way short.

 

I do believe you are correct that JMichael's Finder screen grab portrays an inaccurate view of the "real" Yosemite Finder. It appears that he is using the "TotalFinder" tweak, which restores colored sidebar icons, as well as the characteristic "Chrome" style tabs:.

 

 

 

The fact remains that your comparison is null and void, as you did not show yosemite finder... You only did when I told you to google it... (and still persisted that the two screenshots you showed were one and the same, when clearly they were not)

 

So your updated post I assume will be with the real yosemite finder? or with Totalfinder? 

You can do either obviously... That is up to you...

 

But please dont post false statements.. If you use Totalfinder.... Dont call it Yosemite Finder. Or call me a troll when I simply state your obvious blunder.

[landhab 0]

EN is such a powerful and flexible tool for so many of us BUT---the self destruction of Penultimate and the introduction of the low contrast notebooks, in the name of some kind of attempt at a design sync with Apple, are instead myopic and stunningly inept.  They are violating the most basic principles of design in the name of "improvement"!!!  What is driving such shallow attempts?  Are there not at least some betas that are tested by groups outside of those at EN who are already totally immersed in a culture that is losing its way?  WHERE IS THE WISDOM ON THIS SHIP?  Please, just settle down and do the right things!  Thanks for the opportunity to vent a little!    

[frogwell 17]

 

 

EN Mac 6.0.2 does not do any of these nearly as well as the Finder.  So when it is claimed that Evernote is just "following" Apple, it seems to me that they have fallen way short.

 

 

 

What's horrible about this statement is that--despite my overall approval of the new Yosemite UI conventions--I think a lot of people would agree (including John Siracusa) that the Finder still remains the one major UI blunder Apple made in Yosemite.

 

Saying that Finder does anything better than Evernote 6 is a rather scathing indictment of the Evernote 6 UI.

 

 

There are many things that I think Finder does better than Evernote, such as the highlighted menu item (background color), icon deisgn (heavier line width goes a long way... and buttons that actually feels "click-able"! -- the edit tool buttons in EN6 are just abysmal in terms of usability), and so on.

 

This crude comparison is EN vs iTunes, but the points stands.

[Rob Torok 9]

Just adding my voice to the chorus of dismay regarding the new UI.

 

I've been regularly use Evernote on Mac and Windows for the better part of a year now. Both version have worked well and I've become increasingly reliant on Evernote for pretty much everything. Overall though I much prefered the Mac look and feel to the Windows version. I'd struggle to point out exactly what the differences are/were, but the Mac version *just felt easier to use* - until I updated to v6, of course.

 

And then yesterday, after a week of struggling to come to turns with this new bland Mac UI, I found myself back on the Windows version and suddenly that had become the easier one!

 

I would so love to have the option to restore the look and feel of v5.

[NightStalker 407]

But Evernote should not BE all about adhering to Yosemite principles. It should be about adhering to Evernote principles.

 

Otherwise they are ignoring the fact that a large, and significant, proportion of their user base is NOT using Yosemite.

 

Nowhere do they say that Yosemite is a requirement (if they did, they would probably lose a lot of their users), and the app needs to look good AND work properly on Mavericks at least, and probably on earlier OSs as well.

 

I keep coming back to it - but CUSTOMIZATION is the way to go. Let users choose how their own version of the app LOOKS, while Evernote determines how it WORKS.

[Mel Matsuoka 18]

 

 

 

I dont care what view you chose....

The sidebar in std Yosemite Finder DOES NOT have coloured ICONS... 

 

That is NOT the standard or default YOSEMITE LOOK! Infact the look you posted looks VERY different to the default yosemite look... That looks more like a previous Apple OS.

 

I disagree with your unquestioning loyalty to the new Evernote 6 UI design, but in the interest of fairness, I do believe you are correct that JMichael's Finder screen grab portrays an inaccurate view of the "real" Yosemite Finder. It appears that he is using the "TotalFinder" tweak, which restores colored sidebar icons, as well as the characteristic "Chrome" style tabs:

 

http://totalfinder.binaryage.com/tweaks

 

None of this changes the fact that Apple's UI & usability standards for the Finder are extremely questionable, as I posted about in another thread. This is not just a simple issue of being "resistant to change". As a matter of fact, on the whole, I totally love the new Yosemite UI. But monochrome/low-contrast sidebars still makes for extremely bad usability. Your point about how a background app appears when another app is in the foreground, such as Safari, is well taken...but it seems like truly grasping at straws to defend the value of the new low-con EN6 look with that specific use case. I'd hazard to guess that most people are more concerned with how the app they're running in the foreground looks, even if the UI design of an underlying background app may look more distracting than they would prefer.

 

Your points are well taken. And they make sense.

 

 

However monochrome sidebar is the same in finder, mail, contacts, reminders... And just about every apple app...

 

So only thing I don't understand is how you can be on-board with Yosemite UI but not with Evernote's integration of the same principles.

 

 

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I there are very few instances where I find monochrome sidebars acceptable. In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of a single example. I use Mail.app every day, but the monochrome sidebar still drives me insane, nearly as much as it does in Finder. Even though I singled out the Finder, I think Apple is wrong about this UI convention, wherever it happens to use it.

 

But the argument here (well, at least my argument) is that just because Apple does it, doesn't make it right. Uncritically mimicking these conventions only makes it compliant with Apple's current design preferences. But the fact is, Apple has made a LOT of UI mistakes which it later changed its mind on.

 

I think that most of the disgruntled EN6 users here are just annoyed that Evernote's UI/UX team seems to be just blindly following the latest "fads" in OS X UI design, giving more weight to aesthetics, without giving much thought as to how these aesthetic changes affects the usability of their product. And then when we complain about it, Evernote points its finger at Apple, in so many words saying "well if we're wrong about the new UI, then I guess you're all saying that Apple is wrong, tool!"

 

I think a lot of us would agree that Apple is wrong about a lot of things, as far as UI goes, and we wish that Evernote's design team would recognize that fact, and design for what's right for the usability of the Evernote app, and not for 100% compliance to the Yosemite HIG.

[JMichaelTX 4,108]

 

Hey Evernote land!

 

We've just launched a newly redesigned Evernote for Mac and we'd love your feedback. There has already been quite a lot of discussion, so let me sum up what we understand from it so far:

 

. . .

 

If you have any additional feedback, please feel free to voice it below. Please keep the discussion constructive. We read every post, we put our hearts into this product, this is our life's work, and we love your feedback. It only helps us get better. 

 

 

Jack, you asked for our feedback well over 7 months ago, and there have been many, many responses, suggestions, and requests.

 

Since then there have been 10 updates/releases, not counting Betas.

 

Can you tell us if there have been any changes implemented that were requested/suggested in this thread?

[lykoz 147]

But Evernote should not BE all about adhering to Yosemite principles. It should be about adhering to Evernote principles.

 

Otherwise they are ignoring the fact that a large, and significant, proportion of their user base is NOT using Yosemite.

 

Nowhere do they say that Yosemite is a requirement (if they did, they would probably lose a lot of their users), and the app needs to look good AND work properly on Mavericks at least, and probably on earlier OSs as well.

 

That is a VERY good point, but again has a logical answer. 

 

 

Mavericks shared many similarities... They used the same grayscale side menu.. albeit without translucency. Infact so did all of apple's offerings all the way to snow leopard (released 2009-5 years ago).

 

Apple has been Very consistent with this.

 

For all the critique of apple... We seem to all be using MACS....

 

Furthermore as a fairly recent MAC convert, and still using PC's with Windows...

I can say from the UI front they are lightyears ahead of all competitors.

 

If you consider Windows multi-coloured UI superior, I dont have much to say...

 

For me Windows is completely ugly compared to OSX...

 

This is from a aesthetical point of view AND Functional...

 

If you dont agree.. I wonder why you insist on using a MAC running OSX...

 

If you follow the apple forum's one of the biggest and consistent complaints with Yosemite is changing the green button to full screen mode instead of smart zoom... This is a testament that apple users dont like apps taking up full screens... They Use many apps simultaneously. And the hollistic experience is important.

[thirkej 0]

Hi

 

I'm afraid I'm not a huge fan of the new look.  

 

Partly this is aesthetic / personal taste - I think it's dull dull dull - shades of pale grey all around anyone?  Anything one can do to skin it?

 

But the more important issue for me is the icons.  They're very thin and colourless, and this makes it hard to quickly see which is which and to grasp what they do.

 

i'm comparing them the icons at the top of this comment box as i'm posting (in Chrome if that makes a difference).  They're colourful, and thick enough to see quickly what does what.

 

So, happy evernote user though I am, I'd love it if someone had another think about the icons in 6.03.

 

Thanks,

 

Jestyn

[gmbstn 5]

My team works with a vast collection of images and we all find it very hard to go through our entire reference library even in "expanded card view".

It would be really nice if Evernote had an image-friendly view option; something more like Pinterest and less like Windows explorer.

[JMichaelTX 4,108]

@Mel:  Well, if you don't think the Finder is a good example to compare Evernote to, what app do you think could/should be used as a model?

Please post a screenshot of the app you like best in Yosemite.

 

BTW, I have updated my post with the Finder screenshot after having removed TotalFinder.

 

 

 

EN Mac 6.0.2 does not do any of these nearly as well as the Finder.  So when it is claimed that Evernote is just "following" Apple, it seems to me that they have fallen way short.

 

What's horrible about this statement is that--despite my overall approval of the new Yosemite UI conventions--I think a lot of people would agree (including John Siracusa) that the Finder still remains the one major UI blunder Apple made in Yosemite.

 

Saying that Finder does anything better than Evernote 6 is a rather scathing indictment of the Evernote 6 UI.

 

 

[lykoz 147]

I will however make one concession that I just realised...

 

In Mission Control... 

 

All apps looking the same, can pose a problem...

 

Even though we have app icons... Its not so nice going into mission control and seeing: "white documents" for:

 

Word

Mail

PDF's (preview)

Excel

safari

AND Evernote getting mixed up in the whiteness of it all....

 

Mission control is becoming slightly less intuitive by this lack of differentiation. (i.e. takes me slightly longer to click on the one I want)

i.e. I can spot Spotify immediately since it is black, in misison control.

[Jackolicious 808]

Jackolicious - in your summing of what you understand so far from all the discussions - you basically chose to totally ignore what hundreds of users on this forum, and hundreds more on iTunes and other sites have been telling you repeatedly for the past two weeks. Which kind of makes this a pointless exercise.

The forum is just one place we gather user feedback. App reviews are another. There are many more. I appreciate all the constructive feedback people take the time to post. 

 

But Evernote should not BE all about adhering to Yosemite principles. It should be about adhering to Evernote principles.

Evernote's philosophy on this has never changed. We strive to provide the best Evernote experience for each platform. 

 

-------

 

Let's keep it constructive folks. Thanks for posting. 

[Mel Matsuoka 18]

 

 

If you follow the apple forum's one of the biggest and consistent complaints with Yosemite is changing the green button to full screen mode instead of smart zoom... This is a testament that apple users dont like apps taking up full screens... They Use many apps simultaneously. And the hollistic experience is important.

 

 

Good point, however, as far as this specific complaint goes, Apple did not remove Smart Zoom functionality from the green button. They just changed its default behavior (alt-clicking the green button performs the original Smart zoom behavior). Even Apple recognized in this instance that they HAD to give users a choice in this regard, even though they boldly decided to change the fundamental default behavior of a UI control that longtime Mac users expect.

 

I mentioned in another post that CocoaTech added the ability to restore colored sidebar icons in the recently released Path Finder 7. It's a simple Appearance toggle in the PF7 preferences. Path Finder 6 "followed" Apple's sidebar conventions back when Lion came out, and was ostensibly hoping/expecting/wondering that users would get used to the new UI convention. The appearance of the new Appearance option in Path Finder 7 seems to indicate that in the long run, this was not a popular design decision, and as such they are now giving users a choice in the way the sidebar looks.

 

"Opinionated Design" is a valid software-deisgn philosophy. But it's not appropriate for all types of products. Evernote is one of them. No doubt a lot of people like this new EN design (or at least they think they do...much like how I thought I "liked" the monochrome sidebar when Lion was first released), but obviously a much larger group of die-hard Evernote users don't like it. But Evernote doesn't seem to be interested in giving users the same kind of "choice" that even Apple acknowledges it needs to offer its users, in regards to fundamental UI conventions.

 

It's a rather concerning state of affairs. The fact that Evernote--without much good reason--removed account switching from it's web clipper , does not instill a lot of confidence that they are sensitive to the needs of "power users" (aka the very users that made their product what it is today)

[laughtercrystal 4]

Not sure if this falls under "Design" but I didn't see a functionality/UX topic.

 

The sync warning that pops up when you quit Evernote only has one option, "Quit Now." This makes it far to easy to hit enter and stop Evernote from Syncing on close, meaning your notes are not up to date across devices.

 

I would suggest adding a "Finish Sync" option to this box (and also making THAT the default option) since it's too easy to stop the sync without realizing that you are doing it. I have several times had to reopen Evernote and manually sync again just to ensure that everything is updated.

 

The copy in the box is written like it's only a notification but again, it's too easy to accidentally cancel the sync the way the button is now.

 

Image of pop-up notification attached for reference.

[Parham 0]

When I saw the new design I thought... what the hell! What are they thinking of? Specially since the design for the web application had been launched just a moment before and none of them looked similar. If I wouldn't know better I wouldn't even be able to guess they were the same app from the same brand. Same thing applies to the iOS version.

 

So my question is, what on earth are you guys at Evernote thinking making three different designs for a service that should reflect your brand? Most importantly, from a branding view, not having the green colour (why blue when green is your colour) on the desktop version is beyond my understanding.

 

I haven't read trough all the pages regarding this topic, so if my question have been asked/discussed please don't mind - or guide me to the answer. 

[lykoz 147]

 

 

 

If you follow the apple forum's one of the biggest and consistent complaints with Yosemite is changing the green button to full screen mode instead of smart zoom... This is a testament that apple users dont like apps taking up full screens... They Use many apps simultaneously. And the hollistic experience is important.

 

 

Good point, however, as far as this specific complaint goes, Apple did not remove Smart Zoom functionality from the green button. They just changed its default behavior (alt-clicking the green button performs the original Smart zoom behavior). Even Apple recognized in this instance that they HAD to give users a choice in this regard, even though they boldly decided to change the fundamental default behavior of a UI control that longtime Mac users expect.

 

I mentioned in another post that CocoaTech added the ability to restore colored sidebar icons in the recently released Path Finder 7. It's a simple Appearance toggle in the PF7 preferences. Path Finder 6 "followed" Apple's sidebar conventions back when Lion came out, and was ostensibly hoping/expecting/wondering that users would get used to the new UI convention. The appearance of the new Appearance option in Path Finder 7 seems to indicate that in the long run, this was not a popular design decision, and as such they are now giving users a choice in the way the sidebar looks.

 

"Opinionated Design" is a valid software-deisgn philosophy. But it's not appropriate for all types of products. Evernote is one of them. No doubt a lot of people like this new EN design (or at least they think they do...much like how I thought I "liked" the monochrome sidebar when Lion was first released), but obviously a much larger group of die-hard Evernote users don't like it. But Evernote doesn't seem to be interested in giving users the same kind of "choice" that even Apple acknowledges it needs to offer its users, in regards to fundamental UI conventions.

 

It's a rather concerning state of affairs. The fact that Evernote--without much good reason--removed account switching from it's web clipper , does not instill a lot of confidence that they are sensitive to the needs of "power users" (aka the very users that made their product what it is today)

 

 

Look I didnt mind the change of the green button simply because I can double click the title bar on most apple specific apps... and get the same effect (Im not a fan of using mouse and keyboard... i.e. Alt green button.. also this is a huge extra step in expediency, whilst double clicking the title bar is not really)...

 

Problem is apps like Microsoft Word couldn't care less in updating their software to MAC standards... (Latest MS office is still from 2011, and support runs out after 5 years... Hopefully we will have a 2014 version soon.)

 

This is one of the reasons I am so happy and thankful Evernote choses to work so closely with MAC and OSX...

 

Right now (from the apps I use) Evernote and Wundrlist are the only two 3rd party apps that have implemented the double click on title bar to smart zoom.

This congruency and close working with apple I believe is a massive benefit and not a vice.

 

Also as far as features... I believe we need to ask for what we want!

I just cant fathom End-users deciding about the UI experience... There is too much to consider...

 

Its like painting the Mona Lisa... 3rd party users cant give suggestions... We would end up with a completely fragmented stick man...

[Chrobrego 22]

The new design is so horrendous that I no longer wish to use your service (at least not as a premium subscriber anymore.) I don't need to tell you what everyone else has said, but the UI is hard to see and there isn't any clear definition for the folders as contrasted against the white background. You can't just change the color scheme and say 'it's Yosemite-esque.' It needs to work. I also am having bugs like mad -- ie. I can't see my notes now.   I'm really pissed. You all should have tested this more thoroughly before wasting my time.

[allieferr 1]

I know you've gotten a lot of complaints about the lack of contrast in the sidebar, but now the colored background for selected sidebar items is distracting!

 

 

Most of the time I want to be paying attention to what I'm writing in a note, not the fact that "Notes" is selected in the sidebar.

[Chrobrego 22]

Well, I think a good compromise might be to have different options available -- the designers should have considered this before releasing. 

[bounce 74]

I'm usually here only on the odd occasion to complain, this time, I just wanted to say thanks for the sidebar colors in the latest Mac app. The background and foreground colors are easy on my eyes and make it easier to differentiate between shortcuts.

[NightStalker 407]

To extend your analogy - if we were given the ability for full customization of everything from the skin, the theme, the appearance, and the toolbar, then each user could have their very own version of a fragmented stickman - one that they in fact liked and wanted...

[ikho 0]

At this point I'v kind of lost Hope. I hate to be cynical but how is it possible that Evernote is ignoring this overwhelming uproar from its paying members.

It's utterly insulting to be told you will address these issues in the upcoming update to just to be left with the exact same UI...

I had to completely delete all my EN data from my main computer, reinstall a version of EN 5 and re-download all my data, which is really a drag, and I have noticed inconsistencies between my old notes and these newly re-downloaded ones so that's not giving me much trust into your engineering either... Meanwhile I use the new version on my laptop to keep an eye on when you will fix the problem but update after update, still the same horrible Ui and no customization in sight ..

 

Seriously, what are you guys doing? Thinking? What's going on?  

 

 thank god, you gave me the solution to downgrade back to EN5. 

Because of the new data management I couldn't load my notes in EN5 and was afraid I would just have to migrate all of them one by one to another software.

 

This new eye painful UI almost made me give up on Evernote !

just lost 3 hours in the process, not really what is expected from a productivity application

[jefito 5,586]

I'd like to remind the participants here of the Forum Code of Conduct. The forums here exist so that people can discuss Evernote and its products. Comments, discussion, opinions, disagreement, criticism -- all are welcome so long as they stay constructive and more-or-less on topic, within reason (Item #4: "Don't engage in flame wars)". All members are explicitly allowed to use the reporting tool to have an Evernote employee review content that you find objectionable or contrary to forum rules. Carry on.

[Ko107 1]

I think overall jackolicious, people have been offering constructive criticism. When a majority points out something, one must listen. And onwards we go.

[xylokite 0]

They locked the earlier thread about this - - I joined this forum just to say that I really have a lot of trouble focusing my eyes on the "upgraded high contrast" ui.

 

This is especially jarring when coming from my iPad where the color is green and everything is easy to use.

 

To the developers - -- my input is that you have broken this app for my use. It was easy to use, now it is so difficult I have cancelled my premium subscription and am looking for something better.

 

No amount of cool contextual writing, your changing the world, will make any difference if your USER CANNOT EASILY AND QUICKLY READ WHAT IS ON THEIR COMPUTER SCREEN.

[Tray 1]

Great design, just hard see boring grey on grey color themes. Please add option colored themes.

 

Thanks.

[BrentCh 2]

 

@Mel:  You are correct.  I do have TotalFinder installed, and had forgotten about it.

 

Well, thanks for making that little mistake, because through that I learned about Total Finder, which I love!  One of the annoyances in Finder is not being able to quickly find a specific folder or share by color and shape.  While it's not as "purdy" as the operating-room antiseptic cleanness of the stock Yosemite finder, I'm already finding it much faster and more efficient.  And Total Finder just made a sale.

 

On the Evernote side... well... I'm still not a premium member, because they are not making my life easier at this point.  Putting aside the 'minor' issue of data corruption losing some of my notes on 6.0, the app itself is becoming less useful.  Yeah, you can say it's prettier or matches Apple design aesthetics, but what I'd like to see is things like the ability to color notes by tag, or notebooks with a shared color theme so I don't accidentally put a confidential work note (intended for a non-sync'd folder) into my home/personal notebook.  You know, use color to help me organize, not get rid of it.  

 

And by the way... on Yosemite I use the 'dark menu bar and dock' setting, which blends better with Aperture for the personal photo-editing work.  If EN is all about following the design aesthetic from apple, where's the 'Dark Mode' switch?

[NightStalker 407]

I've been a user of Totalfinder for a long time.

 

Maybe there's an opening here for some entrepreneur to create an app that does for Evernote what Totalfinder does for Finder?

[jusu 11]

Jackolicious: I honestly believe the right thing to do would be to pull v6.0 from App Store. Not wait for Apple, but revert to a previous binary. Serving a version with data losing bugs should be unacceptable. Taking any action neccessary to prevent data loss should be a major cornerstone in building trust with your users.

 

Instead, that version has now been there for 12+ days.

 

Is some data loss acceptable? Please explain your inaction on this.

[Zachster 1]

Im not going to go in to a big long discussion about how much I dislike this update, and specifically the design. I am only going to say that I am not impressed.. and more specifically very disappointed in you Evernote! 

[SoftwareMarcus 388]

I know it's been a long time coming but we're adding a dark sidebar in version 6.1.  

 

If you'd like to try it out you can download our beta candidate from my forum post at http://bit.ly/1D41RdD.

[RobertC 0]

6.1 is a BIG improvement. Just please give us a few more customization options so it can look like v5. You can hide them in the options, just give us the option! :-)

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

Not sure if this falls under "Design" but I didn't see a functionality/UX topic.

 

The sync warning that pops up when you quit Evernote only has one option, "Quit Now." This makes it far to easy to hit enter and stop Evernote from Syncing on close, meaning your notes are not up to date across devices.

 

I would suggest adding a "Finish Sync" option to this box (and also making THAT the default option) since it's too easy to stop the sync without realizing that you are doing it. I have several times had to reopen Evernote and manually sync again just to ensure that everything is updated.

 

The copy in the box is written like it's only a notification but again, it's too easy to accidentally cancel the sync the way the button is now.

 

Image of pop-up notification attached for reference.

Good point! Definitely a bit too easy to hit enter or accidentally click through this warning by accident. I think your suggestions would be great. 

[JimT 0]

Understanding and accepting that the design cues from Apple are becoming the norm in app design (a process I personally don't like), I can provide some positive feedback.  In my opinion, text in the interface is more readable and it "feels" more like a Mac app to me, as opposed to more of a "Windows" feel beforehand.  

 

That said, I am disappointed that this release is so buggy.  I waited for the app to load the first note in a list for a good 2 minutes!  I struggled to create a text-only note that weighed in at 342 bytes (I pasted my text in TextEdit and saved it locally to check).  

 

No I'm not running it alone... running other apps and a MAMP server, sure... but I have well over 75% of my system resources free!  There's no reason for an app like this to choke on such a minuscule note.  

 

Between personal and work notes, I find myself using Evernote constantly.  Now I am no longer confident in using the app on my Mac and will move to the iOS versions exclusively until an update is posted (hurry up and approve Apple!).  

 

If there's any information I can provide to the dev team that could possibly help to further correct any issues, I am willing to assist.  

[mwebber 6]

THIS IS SYSTEMIC:  The mass criticism and overwhelming one-star ratings seen on the new Evernote "update" is also present with their companion tablet software Penultimate, which used to be fantastic... until the recent update.  Turn on your iPad, go to the App Store and check out the same beating Penultimate is now taking with its users, including me.

 

Similar to Evernote, Penultimate was a really good note-taking program.  In fact, I've used nearly all of them but Penultimate really worked nicely, was very responsive, intuitive, nice interface, good interaction etc.  I loved it and use it as part of my daily creative and writing process.  Then the shoe dropped when my iPad updated to the newest version and it's virtually unrecognizable.  Terrible interface, functions are gone, the previous notebooks are lost and all the pages are now one long note that won't scroll, so I can't get to my notes.  And it crashes.  It also is incredibly slow, doesn't recognize the nuances of the letters as it did before, responsiveness and detail is terrible, etc.  It's a freaking mess and totally useless.  Drove me to Notes Plus and will never go back.

 

Evernote's brand is damaged and the brand loyalty will now follow.  Here's Evernote's current scorecard in App Store

 

          Evernote:  2 Stars (out of 5) of 655 ratings.

 

          Penultimate:  1.5 Stars (out of 5) of 402 ratings.

 

Wow.  It's hard to find any App with such low ratings, let alone one that used to have such a loyal, elated following.  Ouch.

 

What are you doing Evernote?  What happened?  This is obviously systemic.  It will be interesting to find out what happened inside at Evernote.


 

[Dhimant 4]

Well, the new version on yosemite is pathetic. I cannot give 1 out of 10. It looks so dull and colorless. Why new UI is so dull and colorless? To be frank, I used to respect evernote for whatever it is. However after coming across new UI, I'm not at all feeling proud of using evernote. It doesn't look like I'm working on MAC and using an good product. I totally hate new UI. 

 

I started searching for a new note tools and came across oneNote. Though, oneNote lacks killing features but it's much more attactive. As I now, I have both product However planning to move all my contents to oneNote. New UI is simply horrible. 

 

Just wanted to ask EN, do you have any plans for changing theme or look? I can't bear working on EN with this new UI. Look and feel wise, old UI was still okay but oneNote is awesome. 

[Jorge Martinez 0]

 

Hey Evernote land!

 

We've just launched a newly redesigned Evernote for Mac and we'd love your feedback. There has already been quite a lot of discussion, so let me sum up what we understand from it so far:

 

Text contrast: We've attempted to improve text legibility significantly from version 5. This is directly in response to your feedback. We have several upcoming updates that take even further steps to respond to your feedback and bump contrast even more! 

 

Light background: With the new version, we have adopted many of Apple's design queues from Mac OS X Yosemite (10.10). Lighter backgrounds and translucency (what Apple calls Vibrancy) are among the design themes for Apple's new OS (our new home). We've worked closely with Apple and their design guidelines to craft a beautiful new look without removing any existing functionality. Users on Yosemite should now see that Evernote fits right in. Users on 10.9: we’ve heard your feedback and you should see more contrast coming back to your UI in versions 6.0.2 and above.

 

If you have any additional feedback, please feel free to voice it below. Please keep the discussion constructive. We read every post, we put our hearts into this product, this is our life's work, and we love your feedback. It only helps us get better. 

 

Hi,

 

Recently I bought Evernote Premium and I am very excited for the possibilities that the app has.

 

I have some recommendations for new releases:

 

1) Allow to put an image/avatar in the notebooks, you know the images is better for our brain to locate info faster.

2) Activate a new functionality that allows archive completed tasks.

3) Activate a gauge that allow me check the % of sync (it must allow to pause/continue the sync), when you upload a large document you don't have idea how many time requires before shut down the computer.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Jorge Martinez

[NightStalker 407]

G'Day all - long time no see.

 

I got fed up with complaining about the awful UI of v6 and its progeny, and also the lack of customization of toolbars, icons, etc, and the overall lack of colour.

 

So I rolled back to v5.4.2, and have been happily Evernoting away with it ever since, and I dropped out of these forums.

 

But I just popped back in to see if there had been any significant change, because I have "Check for Updates" turned off on every installation of Evernote.

 

But nope - it all looks like the same washed out, over-bright, colourless, non-customizable mess. The dark sidebar that Marcus menioned above MAY give it a little bit of the v5 pizzazz back. But for me, v5.4.2 is still the best. And there's no mention of the silly "Chat" thing in the toolbar in v5.4.2 either. So I never have to see or hear about something I'm never going to use.  Does ANYONE actually use Chat?  Just curious....

 

So, it's back to working with v5.4.2 for me,. And I intend to stay there until doomsday if I can

[Parham 0]

 

 

We read every post, we put our hearts into this product, this is our life's work, and we love your feedback. It only helps us get better. 

 

 

 

 

Evernote, if you read this... why not listen to the community or your common sense and bring back the green color for the desktop client? It just doesn't make sense to go with another colour while everything else have your green. Kind of seems like you have an identity crisis. Are you?

[lpr 35]

At this point I'v kind of lost Hope. I hate to be cynical but how is it possible that Evernote is ignoring this overwhelming uproar from its paying members.

It's utterly insulting to be told you will address these issues in the upcoming update to just to be left with the exact same UI...

I had to completely delete all my EN data from my main computer, reinstall a version of EN 5 and re-download all my data, which is really a drag, and I have noticed inconsistencies between my old notes and these newly re-downloaded ones so that's not giving me much trust into your engineering either... Meanwhile I use the new version on my laptop to keep an eye on when you will fix the problem but update after update, still the same horrible Ui and no customization in sight ..

 

Seriously, what are you guys doing? Thinking? What's going on?  

[AlliMa 0]

And you didn't even mention Skitch! That poor app hasn't been updated with anything useful in an eternity (and working with it on a Windows system is absolutely atrocious). It may have good reviews but it's seemingly because a good build was produced and no one's changed the code since.

 

Edit: I'm sorry, this wasn't constructive. Skitch is a lovely app with tons of potential. I am frustrated that it continues to sit stalely on the sidelines in Evernote's product lineup.

 

THIS IS SYSTEMIC:  The mass criticism and overwhelming one-star ratings seen on the new Evernote "update" is also present with their companion tablet software Penultimate, which used to be fantastic... until the recent update.  Turn on your iPad, go to the App Store and check out the same beating Penultimate is now taking with its users, including me.

 

Similar to Evernote, Penultimate was a really good note-taking program.  In fact, I've used nearly all of them but Penultimate really worked nicely, was very responsive, intuitive, nice interface, good interaction etc.  I loved it and use it as part of my daily creative and writing process.  Then the shoe dropped when my iPad updated to the newest version and it's virtually unrecognizable.  Terrible interface, functions are gone, the previous notebooks are lost and all the pages are now one long note that won't scroll, so I can't get to my notes.  And it crashes.  It also is incredibly slow, doesn't recognize the nuances of the letters as it did before, responsiveness and detail is terrible, etc.  It's a freaking mess and totally useless.  Drove me to Notes Plus and will never go back.

 

Evernote's brand is damaged and the brand loyalty will now follow.  Here's Evernote's current scorecard in App Store

 

          Evernote:  2 Stars (out of 5) of 655 ratings.

 

          Penultimate:  1.5 Stars (out of 5) of 402 ratings.

 

Wow.  It's hard to find any App with such low ratings, let alone one that used to have such a loyal, elated following.  Ouch.

 

What are you doing Evernote?  What happened?  This is obviously systemic.  It will be interesting to find out what happened inside at Evernote.


 

[John Christopher Jones 29]

Putting my voice in as a member of the MBP 17" crowd.  I didn't know there were so many of us hanging around the forums.

[chirmer 567]

As far as the look goes, a brief preamble:

• I don't think we will se a dramatic return to v.5 aesthetics. This is not something we need to fear, or a reasonable request to make (depending on which side of the fence you sit on).
• Evernote clearly listens to all of our ideas but only acts on those which it can effectively integrate into the broader vision for the application as instructed from "above" (e.g., libin/execs, etc). 
• As users, we see only very poor and non-representative snapshots of what "users want". App store reviews are not likely representative of all users. Forum users are not representative of all users (though perhaps we could represent a microcosm, at least a bit better than the app store). Your buddy isn't representative of the general user.

Number three needs some elaboration. One thing to remember is that there are 100 million users of Evernote. These users span all ages and several continents and languages. They represent an enormous number of possible use cases. They come along with a large variety of hardware-body combinations, deficiencies, and advantages. So, what does it mean to say that something is "representative of users" or that they are or are not "listening to users". Which users? The "average" user? What is the "average" user? And what about the large proportion of users that exist outside of the "average"? I'd say no such "average" or  "typical" user exists. 

 

We, as users and as people who have no data except our own anecdotes, are in the worst position to make inferences about what the "average/majority/typical user" wants (if such a user could be said to exist). Evernote is, by far, in a better position to make such inferences (where it is appropriate to do so). They have the usage data, they have the forums, they have support data, they have survey data, they have social media data. While I'm sure their picture of users is pretty blurry (as all things based on stats invariably are), it is a lot better than what any one of us has. Of course, this blurry picture is then processed through the broader Evernote agenda which is dictated from above, so the amount of that picture that actually makes it into the product is.... well... hard to determine, and impossible for us, as users, to determine. 

 

What I'm ultimately trying to say here is that it isn't terribly productive for us to try and make claims about what "everyone" wants, what the "average user" wants. Those are not things we can speak to. We can speak to what we like and don't like, and why. We are able to speak with 100% accuracy about our personal, subjective experience using the new Evernote. Articulating those ideas should be the priority here. 

 

I'm not defending specific decisions made by Evernote here. You all know I don't hesitate to criticize Evernote. I'm just saying that we should do what we can do best, which is talk about our experiences with the application. We aren't in a position to evaluate what the "average user" wants (no such user exists), nor are we in a position to evaluate how closely Evernote's application resembles the desires of that user (since we don't know those desires). 

 

So, long story short: We can't infer what others want, we can't infer how much of what others want is in Evernote's application. So lets just talk about what we want!

 

I would Like this 1000x if I could. Quoted its entirety because everyone should read it a second time.

 

[insert ramble; skip the next two paragraphs if you'd rather not bother]

 

Personally, I greatly disliked Evernote 5. I found the sidebar incredibly difficult to read - dark grey background with grey text? That is the opposite of contrast. The hugely detailed icons for Notes, Notebooks, Tags, etc. were distracting to me and blended muddily in with the dark grey background. This new version of EN, while mostly monochrome, is full of contrast in the areas that count. Text is BLACK on WHITE (or incredibly light grey). When it comes to contrast, that cannot be beat. I think EN 6 brings the focus to our EN content, which is the point. I'm personally very excited that Yosemite brings some uniformity to apps - I detest when they all decide they have to have a huge personality and suddenly having three apps open on my desktop has more color and shapes and flashes than a circus. I like that apps are being toned down, more reserved - the emphasis is on the design blending in. The best software design is the software that gets out of the way and brings your focus to the work you're doing. Take a 3 second glance at EN 5, then a 3 second glance at EN 6. Personally, I feel like EN 6 makes my note titles stand out more, making the information density that is Evernote much easier to navigate. I open Evernote every day for its content - not the app's design. 

 

That being said, yes, EN 6 is BRIGHT. But, so is a browser window. Websites are white white white. These forums are incredibly bright to stare at - much more so than the Evernote app. Doing a Google search - holy blinding Batman! Yet we use them every day. Someone mentioned the Adobe software as having a good UI and I vehemently disagree. I live inside Illustrator and Photoshop and the dark UI is, frankly, a pain in the tush. I stare at it for hours, then look up, and all I can see is the glaring white, minuscule text burned into my retinas. Websites with black backgrounds and white text do the same. The point I'm trying to make I guess is that it swings both ways and nothing is perfect (though I don't know that I made the point so much as just rambled on). When EN 5 came out for Mac, tons of new users flooded the forums to voice their complaints. The same can, of course, be said for EN 6 now, too. Does that necessarily mean it's a bad design? No. It happens every time. I do, also, think there's something to be said for giving it the good ol' try and waiting it out to see if perceptions change over time (though of course always being open to wise corrections like darkening the snippet text, etc. like the staff have been so far). I was incredibly displeased when EN 5 for Windows came out. If y'all want a white Evernote, look no further. White white white. And while I do still have some gripes about the design (like PDF previews in Card View that have terrible text overlays), I have grown to like the design. It's utilitarian. The design blends into the background and my ability to read and access my stored data has not changed for the worse (except for the PDF previews in Card View that have terrible text overlays) - it's improved.

 

[end ramble]

 

Alright alright, I'll stop blathering on. Here's the TL;DR summary of what I have to say:

 

What I like about the new design:

1. The overall new look. Very clean, doesn't distract. Blends better with Windows v5 so the disparity between the two versions is no longer a distraction (as one of the probable minority who uses both daily, I thought I'd mention this is really appreciated because you probably don't hear it much)
2. The titles of notes in any view (Snippet, Card, List) are all easy to read and scan at a glance. Major improvement over v5. Cannot, cannot, CANNOT state this enough. 
3. Seriously, so much easier to scan the large swaths of data housed in Evernote. Focus is brought where it counts - sidebar items, note titles, note content. 

What I do not like so much about the new design:

1. Text is a bit small for my liking. I'm one of those designers who makes the font on his/her website huge, though, so take it worth the grain of salt that it is. I also have a Retina display, so I REALLY can't whine. Still crisply legible.
2. I miss green. I love the green in the mobile apps and do wish the desktop apps would touch on it. Does my world come crashing down without it? Nope. Moving on.
3. I do desperately need some sort of delineation between the note title and its body. Struggling with this still. Definitely my biggest gripe, now that snippet text is darker.
4. Icons are a bit small and thin in the note editor; they are small in the Windows version, too, but at least they're a bit fatter and easier to see. Deal breaker? Nope.
5. It's brought out the bad side in a lot of people - some being old hats in this forum whose posts I've read many times and respected. I hate losing respect for people but this topic's done it for me for a few, across the various threads.

“If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. Don't complain.”

Maya Angelou

 

"Life is just a short walk from the cradle to the grave, and it sure behooves us to be kind to one another along the way."

Alice Childress

 

“Three things in human life are important: the first is to be kind; the second is to be kind; and the third is to be kind.” 

Henry James

 

I could go on and on, so I'll save you all and stop here. Text is bold in my response to emphasize that my response is solely my opinion, and by expressing it I do not call you wrong, a liar, or ignore you. At most, I have a different opinion - nothing more.

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

I just want to remind everyone that this thread is specifically dealing with design aspects of Evernote Version 6.0 for Mac. NOT Skitch or Penultimate, or the broader features of Evernote Version 6.0

 

Lets stick to talking about Evernote 6.0.X for Mac, and direct any Skitch or Penultimate discussion to the appropriate threads. Likewise for the non-design related Evernote chatter. 

 

EDIT: Chirmer's post is very much on topic, she just slipped it in there seconds before I submitted this post! Thanks Chirmer!

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

Chirmer, I agree with everything you say. Well stated. I think you also highlight that a lot of what goes into design is rather subjective and that design decisions are fraught with tradeoffs. 

 

 

1. Text is a bit small for my liking. I'm one of those designers who makes the font on his/her website huge, though, so take it worth the grain of salt that it is. I also have a Retina display, so I REALLY can't whine. Still crisply legible.
2. I miss green. I love the green in the mobile apps and do wish the desktop apps would touch on it. Does my world come crashing down without it? Nope. Moving on.
3. I do desperately need some sort of delineation between the note title and its body. Struggling with this still. Definitely my biggest gripe, now that snippet text is darker.

 Agree about text size. It should be increased everywhere doing so is possible without massive effort. 

Green would be nice from a branding perspective and curly for the purposes of looking a bit pretty. 

Isn't it funny the almost inexplicable nature of the feeling induced by the lack of a divider between the note title and note body... I can't quite articulate the reason I dislike it, but I dislike it a great deal. 

[Jackolicious 808]

We still read the forums Parham

[Parham 0]

We still read the forums Parham

 

Yay! 

[DontDuckWithMe 15]

G'Day all - long time no see.

 

I got fed up with complaining about the awful UI of v6 and its progeny, and also the lack of customization of toolbars, icons, etc, and the overall lack of colour.

 

So I rolled back to v5.4.2, and have been happily Evernoting away with it ever since, and I dropped out of these forums.

 

But I just popped back in to see if there had been any significant change, because I have "Check for Updates" turned off on every installation of Evernote.

 

But nope - it all looks like the same washed out, over-bright, colourless, non-customizable mess. The dark sidebar that Marcus menioned above MAY give it a little bit of the v5 pizzazz back. But for me, v5.4.2 is still the best. And there's no mention of the silly "Chat" thing in the toolbar in v5.4.2 either. So I never have to see or hear about something I'm never going to use.  Does ANYONE actually use Chat?  Just curious....

 

So, it's back to working with v5.4.2 for me,. And I intend to stay there until doomsday if I can

 

What do you mean by "lack of customization of toolbars"? As far as I know, you can customize both the toolbar and the sidebar anyway you want. In fact, I removed the Work Chat button from the toolbar as well as Atlas, Market and Announcements from the sidebar. Now I only have my shortcuts, recent notes, notebooks and tags just like the iOS version and I'm quite happy with this setup.

 

As for the design, I've noticed quite a few welcome changes. They removed the annoying translucency of version 6.0, increased the overall contrast and added a dark sidebar which I absolutely love. So I'm also quite happy with the design. I just wish they made the selection color green instead of blue.

[allieferr 1]

I know it's been a long time coming but we're adding a dark sidebar in version 6.1.  

Dark Sidebar.jpg

 

If you'd like to try it out you can download our beta candidate from my forum post at http://bit.ly/1D41RdD.

 

I think the highlight color is still quite distracting, very bright and saturated.

[Limegreen 8]

I love the new look.

 

Please dont go back to the old.

I dont mind contrast improvements here and there...

 

But the new look is by far superior.

 

Great work evernote.

 

Evernote is supposed to work well with other apps... And having apps that actually work closely with apple to make a better hollistic experience really is a breath of fresh air!

Thank you.

 

I'm going to agree with Lykoz.

 

The new look is far better than what came before. It has elegance and subtlety that the previous version did not. And I would say that is partly due to the elimination of stark contrast and that 'thick' design aesthetic that I hope we won't see again for a long time, if ever. 

 

I recently had to look something up on the Macrumours forum and the 'Yosemite looks terrible' rage thread is alive and well, and people are having the same complaints. Contrast, colours, it's alleged effects on 'legibility'. I would say that this is why design in IT has been crude for so long: It is because of this kind of reaction by some users.  

 

Now the Apple team knows that both Yosemite and iOS 7 were generally well received, and the fastest adopted by far. They will have the confidence to stand by the design. I hope Evernote will not let forum complaints dictate design. The Evernote users I know have all reacted positively. But if you have 100 million users, some are going to complain. As with any new version there will be issues, and of course they should be addressed, I just hope that it will not be done by compromising the style. 

[lykoz 147]

Chirmer, I agree with everything you say. Well stated. I think you also highlight that a lot of what goes into design is rather subjective and that design decisions are fraught with tradeoffs. 

 

 

1. Text is a bit small for my liking. I'm one of those designers who makes the font on his/her website huge, though, so take it worth the grain of salt that it is. I also have a Retina display, so I REALLY can't whine. Still crisply legible.
2. I miss green. I love the green in the mobile apps and do wish the desktop apps would touch on it. Does my world come crashing down without it? Nope. Moving on.
3. I do desperately need some sort of delineation between the note title and its body. Struggling with this still. Definitely my biggest gripe, now that snippet text is darker.

 Agree about text size. It should be increased everywhere doing so is possible without massive effort. 

Green would be nice from a branding perspective and curly for the purposes of looking a bit pretty. 

Isn't it funny the almost inexplicable nature of the feeling induced by the lack of a divider between the note title and note body... I can't quite articulate the reason I dislike it, but I dislike it a great deal. 

 

 

• Text size is logically a bit small. I personally like small so that everything fits on the screen, but I can understand a need for it to be larger.. Not everyone can see small text very well. (I use 1920X1200 resolution on my macbook pro 15 inch Thats most allowable scaled resolution... so on the Best for Retina Resolution, I actually don't find it really small at all... So I think a users settings also has an impact on this) I will say however the apple counterpart apps are a lot bigger in general....
• Icons can be larger too like reminder/annotate/etc... Although I am ok as it is...
• We need more space for tags... If I use half screen for evernote even on my high res scaled display, I can only see one tag, and am unable to add tags... maybe have more visible space for tags... maybe under... again this is on maximum allowable scaled resolution... On best for retina cant see tags at all without full screen app... In fact it doesnt even allow me to set evernote to half screen...
• I would also like to see collapsable/expandable snippet view... To be able to maximise note size... Half screen Evernote is how I always use it... So it takes up a lot of my screen...  

 

Question what would you like to be green?

Green is traditional evernote colours... HOWEVER... Before we had tags etc as green on white background... That is very bad for visibility... Blue does a lot more justice from a visual point of view in my opinion.

[chirmer 567]

Isn't it funny the almost inexplicable nature of the feeling induced by the lack of a divider between the note title and note body... I can't quite articulate the reason I dislike it, but I dislike it a great deal.

Right? I can't figure out why it bothers me so much, but I am BOTHERED by it. I have terrible vertigo, and somehow it reminds me of looking out from a glass elevator down 5 floors. I NEED STABILITY IN MY ELEVATORS/NOTE EDITORS.

 

 

Question what would you like to be green?

Green is traditional evernote colours... HOWEVER... Before we had tags etc as green on white background... That is very bad for visibility... Blue does a lot more justice from a visual point of view in my opinion.

I do like blue! It stands out very well and fits within Yosemite's standards. I just have a thing for green and love how the iOS apps use it. I actually like this blue (below) from the Windows v5 app - subtle bit of color. I also like how the date is written in green. Subtle things like that. 

 

[Palladion 18]

The one thing I would like to change about the layout is the visibility of tags.

Even if I run EN in fullscreen mode I can't see more than 2 tags in the note, if I have the preview on I can sometimes see only 0 - 1 tag. I constantly need to switch to the i dialog to just see or change tags. 

 

Since tags are such an essential part of my workflow this is a big annoyance. 

 

Please assign more space to tags in the note pane. I consider tags more useful than the created/modified dates which take up way to much space.

[lykoz 147]

I do like blue! It stands out very well and fits within Yosemite's standards. I just have a thing for green and love how the iOS apps use it. I actually like this blue (below) from the Windows v5 app - subtle bit of color. I also like how the date is written in green. Subtle things like that. 

 

 

 

Personally I think blue is a lot cleaner, and easier to read, with regards to date, and tags... (current use of blue)

Just my personal opinion. I prefer it...

 

But yes you are right, Evernote does lose some of its trademark marketability i guess by not using green.

[Limegreen 8]

Update: I tried the direct download version, though that has the exact same issues. Does anyone have a solution or comment to this discoloration thing? Does anybody have 'normal' colours in Evernote yet? By that I mean having some sort of transparency outside of the sidebar.

[JMichaelTX 4,108]

Thanks, Jack.

 

What about the bug reports posted in the Ver 6.0.2 thread (and elsewhere)?  

Where will these be addressed?

[lykoz 147]

 

Not sure if this falls under "Design" but I didn't see a functionality/UX topic.

 

The sync warning that pops up when you quit Evernote only has one option, "Quit Now." This makes it far to easy to hit enter and stop Evernote from Syncing on close, meaning your notes are not up to date across devices.

 

I would suggest adding a "Finish Sync" option to this box (and also making THAT the default option) since it's too easy to stop the sync without realizing that you are doing it. I have several times had to reopen Evernote and manually sync again just to ensure that everything is updated.

 

The copy in the box is written like it's only a notification but again, it's too easy to accidentally cancel the sync the way the button is now.

 

Image of pop-up notification attached for reference.

Good point! Definitely a bit too easy to hit enter or accidentally click through this warning by accident. I think your suggestions would be great. 

 

 +2 good observation. Should be the way you suggest.

[Rassilon7 1]

Hi,

 

Just wanted to add a simple +1 for a dark mode.

[Jackolicious 808]

We have all bugs noted so far. General feedback can stay there. Let's keep this thread design-focused.

[NightStalker 407]

 

 

 

What do you mean by "lack of customization of toolbars"? As far as I know, you can customize both the toolbar and the sidebar anyway you want. In fact, I removed the Work Chat button from the toolbar as well as Atlas, Market and Announcements from the sidebar. Now I only have my shortcuts, recent notes, notebooks and tags just like the iOS version and I'm quite happy with this setup.

 

As for the design, I've noticed quite a few welcome changes. They removed the annoying translucency of version 6.0, increased the overall contrast and added a dark sidebar which I absolutely love. So I'm also quite happy with the design. I just wish they made the selection color green instead of blue.

 

 

As I haven't downloaded the latest iteration of v6, and having read so many negative comments, I was assuming that Evernote were holding fast to their refusal to make the Toolbar customisable. Many people - including me - probably made life hell for Marcus and the rest of the dev team for months, harping on about how Evernote was shouting about how they adhered to Apple's UI conventions - but they always refused to make the toolbar customisable like it used to be in much earlier versions.

 

So, are you telling me that they finally relented and DID IT???  Wow..!  So you can do all the things Apple lets you do, like drag icons on or off the bar, shift them around, select icon only or icon + text, etc etc?  You know, all the things you can do in just about every other app that works on a Mac? 

 

Maybe it's time for me to risk everything and upgrade one of my "less core task" Macs to see how it looks?

 

Thanks for the heads-up...

 

EDIT:  OK - so I just upgraded a spare old iMac to v6.0.16, and while you CAN customise the toolbar insofar as removing that objectionable "New Chat" button, it still is NOT customisable really. There's no choice of icons vs icons+text, for example.  But the biggest let down is that you can really only remove the original buttons, or restore them. I can't ADD buttons for functions that I commonly use, such as Email Note, or Print Note.  I can't see any way to do that. But THAT is what most people would mean by a "customisable toolbar".

 

There are some general improvements overall, but it still lacks any personality or colour. It no longer looks like Evernote - it just looks like yet another plain grey and white app.  Even Apple's own Mac apps, from Mail to Pages (and don't even mention things like Final Cut or Logic - they're spectacular) all have icons with colour, working on the principle that recognition of icons (as opposed to text-only labels) is a visual thing based on the shape and the colour. But Evernote know better, apparently.

 

Still, it IS a small grudging concession that they've allowed us to remove the Chat button. In the meantime, I'm sticking with v5.4.2 at least until they bring back some colour, some personality, and FULLY customisable toolbars.

[lykoz 147]

I love the new look.

 

Please dont go back to the old.

I dont mind contrast improvements here and there...

 

But the new look is by far superior.

 

Great work evernote.

 

Evernote is supposed to work well with other apps... And having apps that actually work closely with apple to make a better hollistic experience really is a breath of fresh air!

Thank you.

[mwebber 6]

I'm all about change, improvement, technology, pushing the envelope.  That's what I do for a living.

But we must recognize when something is simply not working as intended for a large number of users, such as the recent UI color scheme "improvements".  And the Evernote team seems to be understanding this.

It seems that for myself and others, the new scheme is so egregious and visually counter intuitive to workflow that it warrants consideration of moving away from the program or not using it as much.  Given this, the simplest solution should be to provide both schemes asap (which would make most happy) and later the ability to further customize the scheme to your individual liking, which would make everyone happy.

Many thanks for listening EN team.  Look forward to resolution in update asap.

[James80 5]

The "Apple" design fad won't last. Is Evernote going to just follow them blindly? This is a total cop out. Low contrast makes things less intuitive. That's a fact. I understand wanting to blend in but how about some user testing. White on light light grey? 

 

I know Phil talks about Evernote employees being the main testers but is there any testing with non-Evernote employees? How about non-Evernote users to see if the product is intuitive? New version is very rough on the eyes.

[NightStalker 407]

 

the 'Yosemite looks terrible' rage thread is alive and well, and people are having the same complaints

 

Isn't that a self-defeating argument? If the design really WAS good, then why are so many people complaining about it, across multiple forums from Evernote to Apple, Macrumours to Twitter, and on the App store.  Once again, you can't claim that just because you happen to like minimalism, that it is the RIGHT way to go - not if so many are complaining about it. "Everybody is out of step except me" is the way that argument goes.

 

And once again, we come back to customizability - give us that, and all those complaints would simply disappear. You could have grey, bland, and delicate, while I prefer "crude" coloured, and individual.

[lykoz 147]

 

 

the 'Yosemite looks terrible' rage thread is alive and well, and people are having the same complaints

 

Isn't that a self-defeating argument? If the design really WAS good, then why are so many people complaining about it, across multiple forums from Evernote to Apple, Macrumours to Twitter, and on the App store.  Once again, you can't claim that just because you happen to like minimalism, that it is the RIGHT way to go - not if so many are complaining about it. "Everybody is out of step except me" is the way that argument goes.

 

And once again, we come back to customizability - give us that, and all those complaints would simply disappear. You could have grey, bland, and delicate, while I prefer "crude" coloured, and individual.

 

 

You are overstating the issue...

 

Happy people often dont engage in forums to comment on something they like...

 

Lets look at this thread....

 

It has a following of 9 people...

 

3 people are  pro new look... 5 are against and 1 is the Evernote staff...

How is that representative of the millions who use Evernote?

 

If you send me another thread... you might find 30 people... and most of those threads include people that are on this thread... In fact most threads have similar users posting that they dont like evernote new look.

 

Still a very small sample... And obviously a biased one. I stand by the fact that most people who are happy with the new look... Or dont really care at all outnumber the complainers by huge numbers.

 

A real uproar is completely different.... Its something like iphone 6 plus bendgate issue... And users are STILL buying them up like candy...

 

Or Windows 8 initial release... Before 8.1 update... In this case users walked with their feet... The rate of windows8 purchase pre 8.1 release was less than 5%...

 

Maybe Evernote should offer an official older version... If enough people go back, More than say 50%... They should revert back to old looks...

Let the users decide in real numbers. 

That of course would be a global, epic waste of time... In money, manpower and functionality... Less than 5% of users would probably revert to the older version.

 

Let me remind you that over 80% of MAC's are using Mavericks or Yosemite... And that initial adoption rate of Yosemite was greater than Mavericks.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/os-x-yosemite-adoption-rate-slightly-higher-than-mavericks/

[Stuhrer 250]

You are overstating the issue...

 

Happy people often dont engage in forums to comment on something they like...

 

Lets look at this thread....

 

It has a following of 9 people...

 

3 people are  pro new look... 5 are against and 1 is the Evernote staff...

How is that representative of the millions who use Evernote?

 

If you send me another thread... you might find 30 people... and most of those threads include people that are on this thread... In fact most threads have similar users posting that they dont like evernote new look.

 

Still a very small sample... And obviously a biased one. I stand by the fact that most people who are happy with the new look... Or dont really care at all outnumber the complainers by huge numbers.

 

A real uproar is completely different.... Its something like iphone 6 plus bendgate issue... And users are STILL buying them up like candy...

Well, for the same reasons you could argue just the opposite. Many users that don't like the current UI are not going to post here because they can still use Evernote. What I find interesting is the fact that there is an unusual number of people who only registered to the forum in order to file a complaint about the UI. I think that tells something. And what about the negative ratings in the App Store?

 

But it doesn't really matter what we think. At the end of the day the Evernote Management has to judge the feedback and decide how to react.

[Purpleboots 10]

The bit I dislike the most, is the 'Notebooks' page.  That is the most painful on my eyes, it's just a large page of pale grey on pale grey.  I have dozens of stacks & Notebooks and your new colour scheme totally ruins this page.  All those pale grey notebooks sitting on a pale grey background looks horrendous, and ugly, as well as sore on the eyes. It's just not a nice place to work anymore.

 

I have rolled back to the previous version, and I can see now, how you want to change the appearance of the notebook icons from heavy wood to something more simple, but you got it very, very wrong and made something classy looking, into a washed out blandness. This page NEEDS some colour, and perhaps some of your brand palette could be used on the notebooks, or on the background on this page.  

 

Evernote has NEVER been ugly - why make it so now?

[skellam 114]

Not sure if this falls under "Design" but I didn't see a functionality/UX topic.

 

The sync warning that pops up when you quit Evernote only has one option, "Quit Now." This makes it far to easy to hit enter and stop Evernote from Syncing on close, meaning your notes are not up to date across devices.

 

I would suggest adding a "Finish Sync" option to this box (and also making THAT the default option) since it's too easy to stop the sync without realizing that you are doing it. I have several times had to reopen Evernote and manually sync again just to ensure that everything is updated.

 

The copy in the box is written like it's only a notification but again, it's too easy to accidentally cancel the sync the way the button is now.

 

Image of pop-up notification attached for reference.

 

I don't have pictorial evidence of this, but I believe this represents a change from previous behavior.  The pop-up used to have two options, something like,  "Finish sync" and "Quit Now."   Not sure what the advantage of removing the first option is.

[lykoz 147]

 

Well, for the same reasons you could argue just the opposite. Many users that don't like the current UI are not going to post here because they can still use Evernote. What I find interesting is the fact that there is an unusual number of people who only registered to the forum in order to file a complaint about the UI. I think that tells something. And what about the negative ratings in the App Store?

 

But it doesn't really matter what we think. At the end of the day the Evernote Management has to judge the feedback and decide how to react.

 

 

The latest versions had many bugs and usability issues... Lets not confuse the app store complaints, as all UI complaints.

 

Lets also not confuse the fact that mac app store only has 600 odd reviews... of latest update...

 

And many of those of very Sour users... Giving it 1 star to skew and show their dissatisfaction.,, of UI...

 

Do you really think they believe the new Evernote update is worth 1 star? Something they use everyday in their daily lives? And dont have a replacement for?

They will easily give a random insignificant app 3 or 4 stars... But rate one of the most functional app in the app store just 1 because they are exclusively basing it on UI? Obviously I said some of them were functionality and large amount of bugs... And that can be justified.

 

This is just people being Sour so they can get their way...

 

I havent even 'rated' the new update at all...

[thombody 0]

I absolutely hate the monochrome Apple look. It is simply not nice to work with. I also use Postbox and it is also pale monochrome. No colour in sight.

Colour backgrounds and coloured icons improve usability. I use these apps all day, every day and the brightness is bad for my eyes and the lack of colour make it less enjoyable to use and more prone to mistakes as I hit the wrong icon as they all look the same.

 

At least give us the option to add some colour under preferences.

thank you 

[Blackrat779 1]

Sorry guys, the new design is awful and seems to be getting worse with each update. For goodness sake inject some colour back into EN!

 

Take the views of the customers and their experience into consideration or they will be voting with their feet.

 

Blackrat 

[lykoz 147]

The "Apple" design fad won't last. Is Evernote going to just follow them blindly? This is a total cop out. Low contrast makes things less intuitive. That's a fact. I understand wanting to blend in but how about some user testing. White on light light grey? 

 

I know Phil talks about Evernote employees being the main testers but is there any testing with non-Evernote employees? How about non-Evernote users to see if the product is intuitive? New version is very rough on the eyes.

James its not a fact.... 

Secondly there is actually more contrast in many aspects than before...

 

You call black on black indentation to see if you are notes better contrast?

You call GREEN tags on white background better contrast?

There is a reason we write with blue or black on paper...

 

This update brings practical design... simplicity and superior colour contrast choices...

It also allows better visibility by making note titles... and tags stand out, whilst in note writing in snippet view.. take a back seat....

 

It is clean... It fits with the rest of the system...

I dont want to have my browser open and in use with Evernote in the backround... And Evernote stealing the show when I am not even using it... 

 

 

Also apple's design is not a fad...

In fact the design has always been rather consistent and similar....

 

Now its better than ever.

 

 

Screenshot... Showing beautiful integration with safari. (Note the app is in the background... Ussually there is even more contrast... Now it is whiter...

https://www.evernote.com/l/AS5WP_hgndlHf4PCCAHnfTN4fJTjvzJV2xo

[ApplesHK 1]

Well I've waited a while before adding my thoughts to this discussion. I thought the Evernote experience may improve with a little experience; it hasn't. I've been using Evernote for years now and find it indispensable, but it's almost like some Microsoft team developed the new version. It is just so counter intuitive it sends me into a rage.

 

For example, this morning I clipped a note from a news article and decided to email it. I didn't want to send via workchat, I wanted to email it. I had to do a google search on the topic in order to learn how to do it. There was no icon, there was no drop down option. Why? As far as I'm concerned, emailing a note should be a piece of cake. Who knew that I would have to go to note>more sharing>email note? I would never have found that route without the Google search. Now that's what I call clunky.

 

The other problem has nothing to do with colour schemes but basic design. Yesterday I was searching Notebooks. I was looking at a note there. This morning I couldn't find a way to return to All Notes view. Why change something so completely that it frustrates the hell out of experienced users. If I am finding it hopeless, then how would newbies go? They'd just switch back to whatever else they were using. I feel like doing likewise.

 

Memo to Evernote: please give us back a tool bar that is useful and please get back to what was  a most intuitive interface.

 

Signed: Totally Confused in Oz.

[SoftwareMarcus 388]

 

EDIT:  OK - so I just upgraded a spare old iMac to v6.0.16, and while you CAN customise the toolbar insofar as removing that objectionable "New Chat" button, it still is NOT customisable really. There's no choice of icons vs icons+text, for example.  But the biggest let down is that you can really only remove the original buttons, or restore them. I can't ADD buttons for functions that I commonly use, such as Email Note, or Print Note.  I can't see any way to do that. But THAT is what most people would mean by a "customisable toolbar".

 

There are some general improvements overall, but it still lacks any personality or colour. It no longer looks like Evernote - it just looks like yet another plain grey and white app.  Even Apple's own Mac apps, from Mail to Pages (and don't even mention things like Final Cut or Logic - they're spectacular) all have icons with colour, working on the principle that recognition of icons (as opposed to text-only labels) is a visual thing based on the shape and the colour. But Evernote know better, apparently.

 

Still, it IS a small grudging concession that they've allowed us to remove the Chat button. In the meantime, I'm sticking with v5.4.2 at least until they bring back some colour, some personality, and FULLY customisable toolbars.

 

 

We added a customizable toolbar earlier in the year.  Quite honestly we did the bear minimum to get it out as quickly as we could but have been waiting for forum users to tell us what buttons they would like us to add.  No one has mentioned anything about customization since so we sort of dropped it and have been focused on other things.  For the toolbar customization feature we're letting the crowd decide what buttons they would like us to add.  We're not going to add every single feature.

[JMichaelTX 4,108]

@lykoz:  Are you going to rebut every post that complains about the UI design?  I hope not.

We clearly understand that you like it a lot, and that's fine.

You made your very positive post at the top, and all over these forums.

 

But please allow others to express their opinion without a long rebuttal every time.

 

Thanks.

[krm 10]

I started a topic on Windows Version of Evernote over a year ago regarding the non-option to use dark backgrounds.  I now have a work issued Mac and I was dismayed that the UI colors are even worse in Mac (Mavericks).   Based on feedback I read in other thread (with 7 pages), it doesn't appear Evernote is interested in listening to user feedback.  I think everyone who has difficulty using Evernote at end of the day when our eyes are fatigued will need to look for a new product.

[polocanada 15]

Font!

 

Read this. You see it sucks reading font like this.

 

Why changed all fonts including the notebook view on left side, note list view and notes itself to Helvetica Neue?

 

The design is good, clean, thanks for removing the grey side bar (bright background is more readable).... although I bet you have retina screen on Yosemite. Keep in mind many of us continue using Mavericks (or older) for simple reason because Yosemite is not readable with the new "teenager font Helvetica Neue". I am anxiously awaiting they will push the Sans Serif San Francisco from Apple Watch to OSX as well as to all iOS. Till then I'll be stuck on Mavericks.

Anyway, you shouldn't push the horrible Helvetica Neue font for the sake of new "look".  Simply let the application to use the "system-wide font".

The notes font can be changed in Evernote (luckily yes, thanks) back to Lucida Grande, but what about the Notebook list and Notes list?  The sidebar font and notes list font is not readable. I am using Evernote 8 hours a day, so the font matters. Readability is paramount in applications such as Evernote. Please give users ability to change the font in side bar, and notes list.

 

Thanks.

[maslakovic 28]

Well its very clear that Lykoz and Limegreen like the new UI. Don't think you are Evernote staff - at least I hope Evernote would not resort do planting comments from staff.

 

But if you are objective and read up on responses on this forum and iTunes - on average, for every 1 person that likes the new interface - there are at least 10 that do not like it. So the obvious decision is to allow user to switch colors. That change could be made in about 10 minutes by programmers. I hope Evernote staff do not use the minority voices on these forums as another excuse against changing the UI - or spinning the story further how there is a clear difference in opinion.

 

And you are right Lykoz in your last post - at the moment Evernote is something that users do not have an adequate replacement for. But as soon as there is a replacement - a large number of dissatisfied customers is going to jump ship and never look back.

[RBKL 0]

 

Hey Evernote land!

 

We've just launched a newly redesigned Evernote for Mac and we'd love your feedback. There has already been quite a lot of discussion, so let me sum up what we understand from it so far:

 

Text contrast: We've attempted to improve text legibility significantly from version 5. This is directly in response to your feedback. We have several upcoming updates that take even further steps to respond to your feedback and bump contrast even more! 

 

Light background: With the new version, we have adopted many of Apple's design queues from Mac OS X Yosemite (10.10). Lighter backgrounds and translucency (what Apple calls Vibrancy) are among the design themes for Apple's new OS (our new home). We've worked closely with Apple and their design guidelines to craft a beautiful new look without removing any existing functionality. Users on Yosemite should now see that Evernote fits right in. Users on 10.9: we’ve heard your feedback and you should see more contrast coming back to your UI in versions 6.0.2 and above.

 

If you have any additional feedback, please feel free to voice it below. Please keep the discussion constructive. We read every post, we put our hearts into this product, this is our life's work, and we love your feedback. It only helps us get better. 

 

The functionality of the new update is great.  However, I hate the new interface.  Grey on white??  I use Evernote for everything, and now find it difficult to look at especially in notebook view.  I know you mention that more contract is coming.  Please make this a priority.  I know many others have the same complaint.

[galaxypanda 3]

Hello,

 

I decided to created a discussion user to reach out on this subject, since it appears there is no feedback or suggestion option within the Evernote app/website itself.

 

I wanted to start by mentioning that there are parts of this update that I love. The app responds better, and the data conflicts I experienced between iOS and OS during v5 no longer appear to be an issue. That's awesome, and thank you so much! I did lose a few notes that way in the past. I can share my notes more easily now, and the Top View option looks pretty cool (it almost makes me want to stray from my beloved Snippit View.) The spellcheck seems to catch more mistakes, now.

 

But something's not quite right.

 

It's silly and sentimental, but I miss the green. The stark white contrast and gray app I'm looking at now doesn't feel like the app I cried into finishing college graduate applications on a deadline that had me too stressed out to even think at times. It doesn't feel like the app I poured all my creativity and dedication into when I realized the layout helped me start, finish, and edit my work so much easier than Word, Pages, or SpringPad ever did. It doesn't feel like the app that I became attached to enough to constantly have open for anything from Christmas ideas to rants about why dragons are obviously better than robots to drafts on feedback to my employees. It doesn't feel like the app I spent three years recording my life in.

 

The colors were calming. They were friendly. They gave me some weird type of Nirvana-like inner peace with myself. I miss them dearly.

 

I'm not asking for v5 back. Progression is vital to technology and nothing that stands still can consider itself innovative or inspiring. UIs are meant to become better and better, with plenty of new ideas along the way. v6 will inevitably be followed by v7, and there will be a flood of new features to be both worshipped and reviled by many.

 

But for one user who is now staring at a bare and unadorned Evernote app, trying to figure out why I feel unsettled and at odds with myself when writing something as simple as a thank you note to my grandparents (whose Christmas gift I may have accidently opened early), something's not quite right anymore.

 

May I please have my serene green and tranquil grey back? I promise I'll treat them well.

[maslakovic 28]

Jackolicious - in your summing of what you understand so far from all the discussions - you basically chose to totally ignore what hundreds of users on this forum, and hundreds more on iTunes and other sites have been telling you repeatedly for the past two weeks. Which kind of makes this a pointless exercise. Do the words 'horrible', 'no contrast', 'horrid', 'bland' and 'blinding' (to name just a few) ring a bell? Have you read through the iTunes comments - most of which give Evernote only 1 star for version 6.0?

 

How much clearer do you need it to be? Your conclusion from all these posts seems to be that 'the beautiful new design fits right in' (??????????!!!). Wow. "Bump contrast EVEN more". (??????????????) Maybe you should take up politics? Or you really do live in 'Evernote-land' which is a make-believe place that has nothing to do with the real world... If you cover your ears and start yelling 'la, la, la, la...' - the bad people that are not telling you what you want to hear might go away. They probably will - but they will move on to other software providers - the ones that actually DO LISTEN.

 

More importantly - your comment about Evernote 'working closely with Apple' pretty much explains the misguided decisions in the new design and the likelihood that we will see significant changes.

 

So what is the point of this new thread - haven't people already posted enough - with well over 90% of comments being exactly the same and repeating to death the same thing??? How many times do you need the same thing explained to you? Pretty much everything that you chose to ignore - is everything that people have asked for. There you have your answer - if you are really looking for one. Or Is this just a marketing exercise as for weeks Evernote employees did not even find it fit even to reply to the concerns and negative comments? Which just don't seem to go away for some unexplainable reason.

 

More worryingly - if you really didn't get it from the hundreds and hundreds of posts - should you really be in that job? 

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

@lykoz:  Are you going to rebut every post that complains about the UI design?  I hope not.

We clearly understand that you like it a lot, and that's fine.

You made your very positive post at the top, and all over these forums.

 

But please allow others to express their opinion without a long rebuttal every time.

 

Thanks.

@lykoz: I think you are a troll. You have NO credibility with me, and I suspect, with few others here. I haven't seen anyone "liking" your posts. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Please go bother someone else.

Holy cats. Funny how some folks seem to think those who disagree with them should simply keep quiet. And if they don't, then they must have some ulterior motive.  People who actually LIKE something about Evernote are certainly free to express their opinion, too. 

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

As far as the look goes, a brief preamble:

1. I don't think we will se a dramatic return to v.5 aesthetics. This is not something we need to fear, or a reasonable request to make (depending on which side of the fence you sit on).
2. Evernote clearly listens to all of our ideas but only acts on those which it can effectively integrate into the broader vision for the application as instructed from "above" (e.g., libin/execs, etc). 
3. As users, we see only very poor and non-representative snapshots of what "users want". App store reviews are not likely representative of all users. Forum users are not representative of all users (though perhaps we could represent a microcosm, at least a bit better than the app store). Your buddy isn't representative of the general user.

Number three needs some elaboration. One thing to remember is that there are 100 million users of Evernote. These users span all ages and several continents and languages. They represent an enormous number of possible use cases. They come along with a large variety of hardware-body combinations, deficiencies, and advantages. So, what does it mean to say that something is "representative of users" or that they are or are not "listening to users". Which users? The "average" user? What is the "average" user? And what about the large proportion of users that exist outside of the "average"? I'd say no such "average" or  "typical" user exists. 

 

We, as users and as people who have no data except our own anecdotes, are in the worst position to make inferences about what the "average/majority/typical user" wants (if such a user could be said to exist). Evernote is, by far, in a better position to make such inferences (where it is appropriate to do so). They have the usage data, they have the forums, they have support data, they have survey data, they have social media data. While I'm sure their picture of users is pretty blurry (as all things based on stats invariably are), it is a lot better than what any one of us has. Of course, this blurry picture is then processed through the broader Evernote agenda which is dictated from above, so the amount of that picture that actually makes it into the product is.... well... hard to determine, and impossible for us, as users, to determine. 

 

What I'm ultimately trying to say here is that it isn't terribly productive for us to try and make claims about what "everyone" wants, what the "average user" wants. Those are not things we can speak to. We can speak to what we like and don't like, and why. We are able to speak with 100% accuracy about our personal, subjective experience using the new Evernote. Articulating those ideas should be the priority here. 

 

I'm not defending specific decisions made by Evernote here. You all know I don't hesitate to criticize Evernote. I'm just saying that we should do what we can do best, which is talk about our experiences with the application. We aren't in a position to evaluate what the "average user" wants (no such user exists), nor are we in a position to evaluate how closely Evernote's application resembles the desires of that user (since we don't know those desires). 

 

So, long story short: We can't infer what others want, we can't infer how much of what others want is in Evernote's application. So lets just talk about what we want!

 

----

 

Onto what I want:

In general following Apple's general user interface guidelines seems sensible to me. I know Apple encourages that, and I can understand the desire to make an application that generally fits with the design language of the operating system and with other applications that have taken up that design language. Whether I like or dislike the Yosemite aesthetic isn't terribly relevant here (though I lean towards liking it, though it has a way to go I think, before it is fully baked), not the least because I do not think Evernote will be turning back on that design language. 

 

I think the iTunes and Finder comparisons make some good points. (Ok, while nobody spends 90% of their time in Finder, I think the point JMichael was making is that it is possible to use the Yosemite design language in a way that results in higher contrast and readability compared to EN 6.0.2). There are small tweaks that can generally improve the visibility of currently selected interface objects and delineate between interface elements, without deviating from the Yosemite aesthetic. 

 

Wunderlist is another great example. I think they have really found that sweet spot between flash and dazzle, and the minimalism of Yosemite's design language (early Wunderlist, for those who were in the beta testing days several years ago, might remember that it was originally way too heavy-handed with the flash and dazzle even in the pre-Yosemite days). 

 

In general as of 6.0.2, I think Evernote has done a pretty good job with improving text contrast all around. I just took a little tour around to try and find any pain points and didn't find anything too troubling. I'm sure someone here can dig out a sore spot for text that I've overlooked (or cannot detect). As others have pointed out, text contrast isn't necessarily the main contrast issue (At least, not as of 6.0.2). I definitely think differentiating major section of the application could be improved. On my Retina MacBook Pro, I don't have a big problem with the left sidebar. It's both transparent and a slightly darker shade of grey then the rest of the application, and this contrast, while subtle, is well reproduced by my Retina display. Testing it out on a non-retina external display suggests it isn't too bad there either. As it stands it appears to be almost identical to Mail.app which I find to be clear enough for me. Perhaps there is the possibility of increasing the weight of the separators between sidebar elements and between the sidebar and main window. This might even be made contingent on the display so that non-retina devices will have a heavier separator than retina devices. The same could be said for differentiating list view from the note below, or perhaps attempting to ensure that the alternating dark rows in list view have a different shade of grey than the note editor that appears below it so they do not bleed into each other.

Screenshot:

https://www.evernote.com/l/ABmY1QLDWBhH0ryhCWgzbl8nFc7AsVnWp4E

A dark-highlighted row is adjacent to the note editor and while there is a separator, the colours of the dark row and note editor are the same (modulating slightly due to transparency and the desktop background bleeding through). Looking at this screenshot, actually, it doesn't look like such a big deal.... 

 

 

The other element that needs some work, and I have complained about this elsewhere, is between the note title and the note body. ​Adding a divider between the title and the body could help orient users so they know where they are within the note, and distinguish between body text and title text.  I understand that the absence of a divider is likely motivated by an attempt to visually unify the title and contents, but I find that it is disorienting. In particular, if there is no note content, or the content starts several lines from the top, such as with a brand new note or a note preceded by several line breaks, it is impossible to know how much padding is between the title and the body. This makes entering the note body a bit clumsy if done with the cursor (not so bad when using the keyboard to navigate from the title to the body). Another case is if there is text in the note body that is similar in size to the note title. If the note happens to be scrolled up so that this text is near the top, it can be potentially mistaken for title text. 

Altogether I think a horizontal line under the title (or some other visual means of differentiating these elements) would be a subtle way to improve the clarity and define the structure of the note window. 

 

Some slightly less critical design suggestions:

 

There needs to be a visual indicator for local notebooks. Currently there is no way to distinguish between synced and local notebooks, except by mousing over them. This could be easily resolved by some small, persistent icon on local notebooks, or some other means of making this attribute easily known, at a glance. Shared notebooks have a persistent trio of people, I'm sure something similar could be implemented for local notebooks. 

 

Disclosure arrow needed for stacks in notebook view. While it is visually clear that a stack is a stack, it might not be self-evident that stacks can be disclosed or concealed by double-clicking when in notebook view. A small disclosure arrow or some other indicator that the user can expand this stack, might aid navigation.

 

The contextual menu for notebooks is a complete disaster. In both the Notebook View and the Sidebar, the context menu (right-click) is totally incoherent:

https://www.evernote.com/l/ABkEPZi9BN9JaqX17eaI0gbKd4CupDJr_2k

In the first example we have:

Share Notebook(Modify Sharing) - Not present in an un-shared notebookPublish NotebookNotebook SettingsDelete Notebook

The first three (or four) items in this list could all potentially contain identical controls. It is not clear how a user can infer which tasks can be performed by which menu items. If I want to share a notebook, do I click on Share Notebook, Notebook Settings, or Publish Notebook? Is not sharing part of the notebook settings? Is publishing the same as sharing or different from sharing? 

 

The context menu in the Notebook view (Second screenshot linked to above) is worse. 

Share Notebook(Manage Sharing) - Only present in shared notebooksPublish NotebookNotebook SettingsRename NotebookDelete Notebook......

In addition to the issues with the non-mutually-exclusive sharing-related menu items described immediately above, why does it say "manage sharing" instead of "Modify sharing". Is this the same as "modify sharing" in the other context menu? Why are these different?

 

Resolve the share/modify sharing menu disjuncture. If a user wants to see who a notebook is shared with, they must click on "modify/manage sharing". This information cannot be obtained from the "share note" menu item. However a user cannot actually share from the "manage sharing" pane. To do so, they have to exit that pane and click "share notebook". From share notebook they can share with new users, but they cannot determine who the notebook has already been shared with. To do this the user must then return to the "manage/modify sharing" pane. 

To make things worse, the Publish Notebook and Modify/Manage Sharing menu items actually lead to the same screen. Why do two different menu items lead to the same screen? Does this not also conflate the concepts of "publish" and "share", which Evernote seems to want to actually differentiate? (As I see it, Evernote wants "sharing" to be understood as giving access to specific users, while "publishing" is to provide public access. Certainly an acceptable distinction to make, but Evernote should avoid subsequently conflating these concepts themselves!). 

 

You could put all of the sharing and publishing stuff into the notebook settings pane. This would keep contextual menus small and tidy and provide a single dashboard where all attributes of a notebook could be modified including sharing and publishing, which may or may not be the same concept. Rather than having sharing and publishing confusingly spread across three different menu items, place sharing and publishing all here. Conceptually it is likely easier for users to know where to go to modify these settings. A user would no longer have to try and decide whether publishing and sharing are different, and attempt to reconcile the fact that if you click "share notebook" you can't see who the notebook is already shared with, you have to click on "Modify Sharing" (or, vexingly, "Manage sharing" in Notebook view) to actually see who it is shared with.

 

 

Ok I think that's it for now. 

[John Christopher Jones 29]

I believe the box actually had three buttons: Cancel, Finish, and Quit Now.

Finish and Cancel both did exactly the same thing as just dismissing the window: Cancel. It made sense to pare it down. However, even Apple doesn't default to dangerous in such modal dialog boxes. That's why there is always a cancel button and it's always the rightmost and default button on danger prompts.

[macfixer 441]

I also have a 17" MacBook Pro and see no issues with the current Evernote 6.x design.

That said, I'm avoiding retina Macs like the plague since I'd probably want one after seeing it in person. 

[John Christopher Jones 29]

An alternative would be to pop a skipable progress dialog.

Title: Quitting Evernote

Informative Text: Evernote is syncing your notes. You can quit now, but some of your changes won't be visible on other devices until your reopen Evernote on this device.

Sync Progress: [============== ] 75%

[ Quit Now ] [ Cancel ]

[Socialwill 24]

Jackolocious - in your summing of what you understand so far from all the discussions - you basically chose to totally ignore what hundreds of users on this forum, and hundreds more on iTunes and other sites have been telling you repeatedly for the past two weeks. Which kind of makes this a pointless exercise.

 

How much clearer do you need it to be? Your conclusion from all these posts seems to be that 'the beautiful new design fits right in' (??????????!!!). Wow. "Bump contrast EVEN more". (??????????????) Maybe you should take up politics? Or you really do live in 'Evernote-land' which is a make-believe place that has nothing to do with the real world...

 

More importantly - your comment about you 'working close with Apple' pretty much explains the misguided decisions in the new design and the likelihood that we will see significant changes.

 

So what is the point of this new thread - haven't people already posted enough - with well over 90% of comments being exactly the same and repeating to death the same thing??? Pretty much everything that you chose to ignore - is everything that people have asked for. There you have your answer. If you are really looking for one. Or Is this just a marketing exercise as for weeks Evernote employees did not even find it fit even to reply to the concerns?

 

I agree 100% with this...

 

Jackolocious people have taken time to write comments and there has already been a discussion on this.  Based on what you just posted it feels as if you are intentionally ignoring all the previous posts related to this under the 6.0, 6.0.1, and various other threads.

 

Do NOT ask people to start over again. Take the time to do a better summary of what has been asked for and it was NOT just the two items you listed above. 

[drjimmie1976 0]

Dear Evernote -

 

I'm a long-time Premium user, having mentally signed up "for life" to your brilliant product. My first post - I've never felt moved to take to product forums before, but the new UI direction is just wrong. 

 

After the skiing-on-a-glacier retinal damage caused by 6.0.1 I luckily found a copy of 5.7.2 online, and rolled back to it. 

 

After a few weeks I had forgiven and just about forgotten. An update dialogue popped up, and I just tried 6.0.5...ugh, the UI still isn't right. Green/white/grey is so much better. I'm resolutely sticking to 5.7.2 until you realise that you are on the wrong track. If you don't, then I will look for an alternative product within the next month.

 

Please please listen to your customers. You are wrong on this. It is a deal-breaker.

[jmhohl 1]

Been using the new UI for a couple of weeks now - and I still find it harsh on the eyes.  Having experienced a far more visual friendly and, yes, more quickly navigable presentation, I want it back!  Please, please, please give us the option of using the old one...

[righteousdork 199]

Keyboard Shortcut for Editing Tags Selects All the Tags

 

I've done this more times than I care to mention.  Hit the keyboard shortcut to go to the tag(s) of a note (Command + ') and just started typing.  This works great if tags don't already exist on the note.  If they do, the shortcut ends up selecting all of them and whatever you type overwrites the existing tags.  This doesn't seem like the intended response.

 

It would make more sense to use (Command + ') to enter the tag area of a note and from there either add or delete.

 

FROM THIS

 

TO THIS

[righteousdork 199]

Ability to Complete Checklists with Keyboard

 

When working in a note with checklist items, I would like to select a checkbox with the keyboard and maybe hit space or some other key to toggle checked or unchecked.  Right now when you move through the note the cursor simply ignores the checkbox.  I can see it highlighting the box in blue to indicate a change is possible.

 

Evernote is a productivity tool for me, and the less I use my mouse the better.  It keeps me focused on the task at hand.

[NightStalker 407]

Just to add my 2c worth - again, given that we have a new thread specifically on the topic of UI design, let me make the following points:

 

- lykoz and a few others like it. We can get that out of the way as a start.  Yes, there are some who actually like it - fair enough. But that doesn't make them "right" (there's actually no such thing), given that they're in a minority - at least on here, on the App store, and on Twitter, they are in a tiny minority of about 95:5 against.

 

- the problems are not JUST the changes in contrast. It's everything to do with the UI.  Some people like colour in both the app itself and also in the icons (I do) - what is wrong with colour? Colour makes the app look like an Evernote app with its own identity instead of bland grey nothingness of many other apps.  Colour in the icons and buttons makes them MUCH easier to take in without having to "read" every icon. Colour is good. That's why we now have the ability to use millions of colour shades. But what does Evernote do? It goes to grey...! And given that Evernote states that they are following Apple's design decrees, what about Apple's own products such as Pages, Numbers, Keynote etc?  They all still have coloured icons and buttons, especially under Mavericks. And we wont' mention the fact that Apple' own standards have apps with customisable toolbars, yet Evernote doesn't...

 

- a LARGE part of the problem is that Evernote are dictating the way the app looks completely, as well as dictating what features are in there, having removed some (progress bar, for example) and hidden others (email note). They have forced buttons on the toolbar that the vast majority of users will never use (chat) and introduced features like Context that only a few will ever use, but they still haven't got the basic functions working 100%.

 

- if Evernote want to stop the complaints - at least about the UI design - then they should give control of what the app looks like (within defined parameters) back to the users. That way, I can choose to use the Classic theme, for example, with a dark sidebar, green surrounds, and coloured icons. I could customise the toolbar and remove the Chat button, and put buttons on there (with coloured icons, of course) for Email note and for Print.  Others can tailor things the way THEY like. And people such as lykoz who actually like the new design can choose to have it that way.

 

- Surely, making as much as possible to be customizable will remove ALL complaints, grumbling, and downright ANGER about the appearance?

 

- Then we could use these forums to discuss REAL bugs in the software - things that actually affect how it works or doesn't work, as the case may be.  Sync problems, editing problems, formatting problems, etc etc. These are really much more important than the design of the appearance. But the design has met with such a storm of criticism that it has completely overshadowed the REAL bug reports and discussions. The mere fact that so many people have signed up to these forums as first-time posters just so they can complain, mostly about the appearance, should be a huge wake-up call.

 

- and LISTEN to what people are saying.  Stop trying to spin things to try and fit them to your preconceived design, with tiny tweaks as concessions but announced as "updates". Please just accept the fact that you have got it wrong on this occasion. Go back to the drawing board, stage 1.  And involve your users, especially those who are engaged enough to take part in these forums. Accept the input from everyone.  After all, they are not going to make suggestions that would make Evernote HARDER to use, are they? Nope - they are making suggestions to make it BETTER.  B E T T E R......  Got it? 

 

Fully customisable interface, no more complaints about the UI, and sort out the real bugs. Simple really...  But it does mean swallowing a bit of humble pie - something that Evernote seems not to be very good at!

 

Oh, one other thing. The move up to Mavericks was basically a no-brainer (although a lot of folks are still on earlier OS versions). But the move to Yosemite is fraught with problems, and please do NOT assume that all users are now on Yosemite.  Clearly, we are not. There are major problems with Yosemite (badly broken Mail app, serious WiFi problems, not to mention the radical look - translucency is a cool fad that has many people turning it off). As I've posted elsewhere, a lot of folks who went to Yosemite (at our university, for example) have been, or are being, downgraded back to Mavericks using Time Machine or SuperDuper or similar. The "uptake" of Yosemite is hard to judge, as the number of downloads of the OS doesn't equate to the number of people who stay on it. Personally, I hated it before downgrading back to Mavericks, and will be staying on Mavericks. So blindly following the Mac OS X upgrade is not a smart move.  Yes, make the app compatible with Yosemite - you have to do that, agreed. But DON'T work on the assumption that only a minority of users are still on Mavericks. Evidence - at least anecdotally - suggests that Yosemite is still only a minority or on new machines. This may be the case for some time to come. Bit like the fact that the most widely used OS on ANY computer around the world today is STILL Windows XP.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I will restrain myself from posting more - I just thought I'd summarise the situation as far as the UI design goes, given that we now have a thread dedicated to it.

 

Over and out