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Markdown WYSIWYG support plz?


saileshpanchal

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Hi. Raw markdown? Do you mean plain text? Evernote works just fine with plain text (actually, not really plain text, but close enough).

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=1564

 

Yes, Evernote doesn't actually handle plaintext. "Close enough" isn't enough. I put plaintext into a note, then Evernote has to be told to Remove Formatting. And that doesn't take, since it insists on changing it from plaintext to a formatted font. In order to fake it, I had to change the default font to a monospaced typeface. Which still isn't using plaintext. 

 

Plaintext is simpler, smaller, and faster. It's weird that Evernote doesn't play nice with it. I understand the appeal of various forms of formatting, but to neglect the most basic format of them all? That's just odd.

 

Evernote supporting plaintext and Markdown would make Evernote pretty much perfect for me. And, I suspect, for a lot more people, too.

 

 

I don't know which client you are using, but the Mac has "Make Plain Text," which will strip out the formatting and ought to leave you with a monospace font (you can adjust this in the Preferences). 

 

I think the reason Evernote doesn't have plain text (a .txt file) is that EVERYTHING in Evernote is contained within an .xhtml file (they use a modified version called .enex), so it is impossible (as I understand it) to have pure plain text. I think this is a limitation we have to accept. That said, as I posted on my blog, it is "good enough" for some use cases.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=1564

 

Ideally, Evernote would support Markdown within the app (by support, I mean render the Markdown in .html, perhaps in a separate window), and maybe it will someday. At the moment, you'll have to export out of the app into another one (this is what I do), or copy/paste.

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+1 for Multimarkdown

 

This topic started in 2008 and five years later, people are still requesting it! C'mon Evernote :) 

Just because a feature has been requested does not mean it will be implemented. A lot of users have other feature requests & sometimes my feature request may be mutually exclusive of your feature request. Plus, EN must balance resources as well as priorities. And some feature requests they may simply decide to never implement, for whatever reason.

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+1 for Multimarkdown

 

This topic started in 2008 and five years later, people are still requesting it! C'mon Evernote :) 

Just because a feature has been requested does not mean it will be implemented. A lot of users have other feature requests & sometimes my feature request may be mutually exclusive of your feature request. Plus, EN must balance resources as well as priorities. And some feature requests they may simply decide to never implement, for whatever reason.

 

That's a pretty weak answer, though, you have to admit?   I think a simple thumbs-up or thumbs-down is all people really want to hear from any software company.  If Evernote, as you say is balancing resources/priorities or simply deciding not to implement it, then why not just be a customer-friendly company and issue a single post that answers either "Yes, we'll implement it because we love our customers" or "No, we will not implement it because XYZ, sorry".  It would save us all the 5-years of talking at a brick wall.

 

It's a courtesy issue as much as anything else.

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As I wrote earlier in this discussion, I don't believe the EN guys will ever implement this markdown feature. I also checked the public beta of 5.6.0 of the new Mac version. And since there is no feedback from the EN folks here, we had to move on.

 

Well said; that was essentially my point. I have moved on from writing in Evernote. 

 

 

 

As Mike Korner wrote, in the meantime we also did established a different workflow. But since I can't trust Dropbox, we installed a Git on our server and created a special repository for some stuff. If you think Git is too techie, please know even our assistants are working with that, using a tool like Gitbox for checking in and out. So we are creating and maintaining our files in all formats we need - we're not using just Markdown, but also AsciiDoc for our documentation. The files were created with the writing tools of our choice, every employee has its own favorite (BBEdit, Ulysses, Textedit etc). With Git we do have not only the perfect synchronization, but also the best version comparison (which is another weakness of EN, see this thread). Later, when a version of the file is finished, it will be exported and embedded as a final version into Evernote. The target format depends on the later usage of the file. Unfortunately we can not use EN for sending out PDFs to our customers because of this issue) - so, most notes are in RTF and HTML format.

 

 

Sounds like you've also addressed a problem outside the scope of this thread (workflow and versioning), and I'd love to read more about the solution you've created. But it sounds like you're ready to move on completely from Evernote. Surely it wouldn't be much more work to add tagging and searching? Given the strategic direction Evernote is taking, why are Libin's promises meaningful? I mean, great, a software executive is committing to delivering quality software. But his vision for the software doesn't make any sense, and we're using fewer and fewer of its features, so who cares if their next big product improvement ("Write On Your Hand With Evernote's New EverGloves! Only $99 in the Store Now! Available in White Or Bright Green!") is well-implemented or not? 

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I have to agree with jemostrom above -- I couldn't care less about Evernote's support of Markdown attachments. Markdown is not a display format, it's a writing format. I don't want to attach "Markdown" documents (if I did, they'd be in a display format). I want to be able to write notes using Markdown syntax instead of Evernote's dreadful formatting options.

 

I think Evernote has officially indicated their uninterest in this feature (apparently, producing $30 water bottles is more in line with their increasingly incomprehensible product vision) so I've long since given up and no longer write in Evernote. I use the Byword markdown editor, which allows automatic publishing to Evernote. It's not ideal, but it's usable, unlike Evernote's ridiculous interface. 

 

Given that Evernote doesn't seem to understand the concept of "writing" (beyond something they can use to sell you stupid notebooks, pens, postits, etc), I would rather see this implemented via the API, by a developer who cares about words. 

 

$30 water bottles ... LOL :)

 

Given that Evernote still doesn't support the most basic of styles (H1, H2, H3, Body), the fact that Simplify Formatting and Clear Formatting clear the whole note and not just selected text, and bullets don't work with any reliability, I have given up on Evernote handling basic text let along Markdown. Byword seems like a great tool but the cost is prohibitive since I use multiple environments and it lacks a Windows version for times when I'm in that world. I'm still using Markdown though.

 

My solution bypasses Evernote. I use Dropbox with a Markdown-savvy tool to view a formatted version (to make my visual brain happy) for each platform I use. Markdown and Dropbox give me portability across environments. Not as nice as an Evernote solution could be, and I can't get an overpriced water bottle, but it works everywhere I need it to be and it is available now.  

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Check the http://nimblebox.me

It's a small application for Windows that support Markdown and many more handy tools. I have developed it recently. I will appriciate any comments.

 

Too bad it is only for Windows :(

 

Good luck with it! I look forward to hearing what others think of it.

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I have never posted in this forum before, but wanted to pop in to voice support for Markdown within Evernote.

 

I realize Evernote does all kinds of fancy rich text editing and HTML-based formatting in the background, but I wonder whether this is more than is necessary. At it's core, what is Evernote? A note-taking app. So why do I care about picking between umpteen different fonts and text sizes within my notes?

 

Even the new "reminders" feature strikes me as strange. It's like Evernote is trying to make itself into a swiss army knife. I don't expect my note-taking app to remind me to pick up groceries. That's what I have a to do list for. And I don't expect to format each note different than the rest. If I need to style a document, that's what a word processing or document publishing apps are for.

 

But I digress. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Evernote would do well to focus their app on its core competency rather than trying to be all things to all people.

 

If I could, I would switch off different formatting for different notes in Evernote. I want consistency across my notes. And I feel markdown would supply the minimal formatting necessary to make special writing elements like lists, quotes, code, and tables coherent within the unified look and feel.

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 At it's core, what is Evernote? A note-taking app. 

 

No, not really. At it's core, according to Evernote itself, it's a database for storing and retrieving information from multiple platforms. The note taking is kind of an extra bonus. I believe they excel at their core competency to "Remember everything." I do agree with you, though that the reminders feature seems to be drifting away from its core function.  

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Evernote would do well to focus their app on its core competency rather than trying to be all things to all people.... And I feel markdown would supply the minimal formatting necessary to make special writing elements like lists, quotes, code, and tables coherent within the unified look and feel.

 

Digittrance, I think you nailed it.

 

I've found myself opening Evernote less-and-less after the big redesign and find it increasingly more cumbersome to use since they packed it "full of features".  It doesn't do reminders, tasks, etc, anywhere close to as concisely as competing tools, and in the meantime has gotten progressively less able at being a note-taking tool.  I stuck with Evernote a long time, but they seem to be going down the Yahoo route where they're trying to be everything for everyone and in the process just becoming mediocre, which is a bummer.  Hope they correct course...

 

+1 for markdown...  :)

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On Reminders I'd guess this is suffering from "Release 1" Syndrome - not that I personally see problems with its implementation. And I do think Reminders is best placed integrated with Evernote - datastreamwise and clientwise.

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1. It takes it a bit further than simplify formatting. You lose images, note links, etc. when you apply plain text. In terms of the .enex, almost nothing is left for rendering purposes.

 

2. It is a text file that has to be interpreted by the app, so it needs cues like headers, <div>, etc. That is my understanding, anyhow, and if that is the case, then "true" plain text is impossible (given the constraints of the service).

 

3. I agree that it would be "ideal" if we had Markdown support, though I don't think we will ever be able to see .txt support. It could be a limitation of my imagination or it could be that I am just plain wrong, but that is my understanding of how the service works.

 

I am asking for the feature as well. Please read my posts -- "Ideally, Evernote would support Markdown within the app..." I've also got a bunch of blog posts extolling the virtues of plain text, so please understand that I would be very happy to see plain text and Markdown support. 

 

However, I believe there are technical limitations and perhaps practical considerations in Evernote that will prevent us from seeing plain text. This is a discussion forum and I am expressing my views. Occasionally, I am totally wrong. Maybe this will be one of those cases. In the meantime, if / until we ever get Markdown support, I am suggesting solutions that are "good enough for some use cases." 

 

It sounds like you are not one of those use cases. That's cool. For the benefit of other users, though, I think it is worth making suggestions. Feel free to ignore them if you want.

 

 

 

Frankly, as a business, I think Evernote is smart to focus on these folks.

 

I don't buy that. We're not talking about people who are saying "support RTF" vs "support HTML". This is plaintext, which is what the damn .ENEX files are already actually in.

 

That's cool. Again, I could be totally wrong. It is just my opinion based on what I know about the service. 

 

[EDIT:] By the way, smarter people than me have tackled this question over the years. Here is one of the answers -- basically, it is conceivable, but not without reworking the service, and it would still (as I understand it) need to be contained inside of an .enml wrapper.

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/22897-wheres-evernote-going/page-2#entry119356

 

If you read the thread, you'll see that I was asking for exactly the same thing you are (plaintext) a couple years ago. I've decided (based on what I have read) that it is unlikely to happen, and perhaps even impossible within the app. Perhaps, as I said, I am wrong. 

 

 

 

1. Yes, it loses all of the formatting and images — that's the point.

 

2. Interpreting the individual items? You mean as in the way Markdown fundamentally is meant to work?

 

3. It already supports plaintext in the form of ENEX files — the interpreter simply reads the ENEX files and renders it as formatted text. How could it be *harder* to tell it to *not* render?

 

4. I get that you seem to be pro-plaintext and pro-Markdown, but you keep offering reasons why we shouldn't even bother asking.

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Funny how this old topic pops up again and again. I would pay to know if/where Markup is on the EN roadmap...

Somewhere in the same vicinity as the support for LaTex and for an Esperanto version, I'd guess.

 

I would hope that Markdown was a little higher on the priority list than LaTex. Seems to me that Markdown has a broader user base due to it's simplicity and spectrum of application. +1 for markdown integration in evernote!!

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Funny how this old topic pops up again and again. I would pay to know if/where Markup is on the EN roadmap...

Somewhere in the same vicinity as the support for LaTex and for an Esperanto version, I'd guess.
I would hope that Markdown was a little higher on the priority list than LaTex. Seems to me that Markdown has a broader user base due to it's simplicity and spectrum of application. +1 for markdown integration in evernote!!
Um, that was a joke -- same order of magnitude, I'd guess.
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it does not have to be markdown. The android app should at least provide the same formatting functionality like the other clients and mobile apps. On iphone you get 

 

  1. Text Styles Tools: Tap to change the text style, including bold, italicize, underscore, strike through, and highlight
  2. List Tools: Tap to create bulleted and numbered lists, or to insert a checkbox
  3. Indent Tools: Tap to indent the current line of text
  4. Insert Link Tool: Tap to insert a text hyperlink
  5. Simplified Formatting Tool: Tap to simply text formatting or convert the selected text to plain text
  6. Paragraph Style Tools: Select a block of text, then tap any of the options to apply pre-defined format settings to 
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I think Markdown is the very best to write quickliy.

 

Evernote has a concept, where Markdown fits perfectly.

 

Just a few weeks ago I did not know about Evernote, and now, I can't think of a morning, I won't take a look on my phone first.

 

A few (useful) futures would be great:

 

As said before:

 

- Markdown

 

Write write write.. Don't have to think about clicking on each word you want to have boldface/italic/etc.

 

Don't have to mark every single heading to set it boldface, maybe underlined, greater size, a.s.o.

 

- ToDo-Lists

 

I found a way to use Evernote as my ToDo-List already.. But.. I can explain..

 

1. set a notebook called ToDo

2. move this notebook to a stack called Important (to not have 'alphabetical problems' i called it ###__IMPORTANT__###)

3. added a new notebook to this stack called Seperate/Timed ToDos (to not have hundreds of notes in THE todo-notebook)

4. added note to ToDo called ...yeah not very good... ToDo (Here I have one List)

5. splitted this list into Today/Then/Special Date/One Day In The Very Future/Tasks Done

 

When I have a thing to do on a special date:

 

1. add a note to Seperate/Timed ToDos called e.g. Birthdaypresent for Rob

2. add an entry Birthdaypresent for Rob to my Special Date section in the ToDo-List

3. link the note I made in (1) to the entry I made in (2)

 

... I think you understand what I mean...

 

And this is (in my opinion) one of the easiest ways to 'construct' a ToDo-List...

 

Gentlemen - Theres a lot to do there ;)

 

- Favorites-Section (like in mac app?)

 

Don't know if I am blind, but I did not found a favorite section neither on Android-App and on Win-App.

 

...Thin this is enough atm.

 

Hope I wrote this in the right section here in the Forum!

 

Except of a few things, Evernote rocks! ;)

 

Use it for Private notes, for ToDo-List (maah.. in a very complicated way..), for organizing websites for a acapella-musicgroup, a faculty at university, for work, for journeys ....

 

Keep up the good work and implement a little more ;)

 

Cheers!

wohfab

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Please add this -- I write most of my serious Evernote postings now in Markable, because I don't have the patience to point&click constantly to format text, or to highlight and choose a monospace font off the dropdown menu instead of using standard markdown syntax. Also there's no sensible way to create links in Evernote. Full markdown support is the single most important improvement I could hope for from Evernote.

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Please add this -- I write most of my serious Evernote postings now in Markable, because I don't have the patience to point&click constantly to format text, or to highlight and choose a monospace font off the dropdown menu instead of using standard markdown syntax. Also there's no sensible way to create links in Evernote. Full markdown support is the single most important improvement I could hope for from Evernote.

This is the way I do it too, using an external editor to do the md formatting and then pasting it into Evernote when I'm done. Would be nice to have it inside the app. The nice thing about markdown is that it doesn't even have to be visible to anyone who doesn't want to use it.

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Please add this -- I write most of my serious Evernote postings now in Markable, because I don't have the patience to point&click constantly to format text, or to highlight and choose a monospace font off the dropdown menu instead of using standard markdown syntax. Also there's no sensible way to create links in Evernote. Full markdown support is the single most important improvement I could hope for from Evernote.

This is the way I do it too, using an external editor to do the md formatting and then pasting it into Evernote when I'm done. Would be nice to have it inside the app. The nice thing about markdown is that it doesn't even have to be visible to anyone who doesn't want to use it.

Hi. Welcome to the forums.

I usually write my notes in Markdown, and when I want to see them formatted, I paste them into something, and then back into Evernote as well. It is unwieldy and far from ideal, but it works. It would be great if (like other apps) we could just press a shortcut key like CTRL + CMD + p (Mac) and see the page formatted nicely. Like you said, it would be there for the folks who want it, but hidden from those who are not interested in it.

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I would suggest:

 

  1. Add a "render as" combo list (drop down) to the client (i.e. select "render as Github flavored Markdown").
  2. Add a "edit in external editor" button (i.e. "edit in Vim").
  3. Profit by making your hardcore (and loyal) users happy.

 

Alternatively:

 

  1. Wait until some enterprising full-stack developer and designer combo pair up to build your clone promoted via Kickstarter.

 

It certainly won't be me; I'm happy with my day job and I know how much work this would be. That said, how long until some hungry and talented team catches on?

 

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Evernote would do well to focus their app on its core competency rather than trying to be all things to all people.... And I feel markdown would supply the minimal formatting necessary to make special writing elements like lists, quotes, code, and tables coherent within the unified look and feel.

 

Digittrance, I think you nailed it.

 

I've found myself opening Evernote less-and-less after the big redesign and find it increasingly more cumbersome to use since they packed it "full of features".  It doesn't do reminders, tasks, etc, anywhere close to as concisely as competing tools, and in the meantime has gotten progressively less able at being a note-taking tool.  I stuck with Evernote a long time, but they seem to be going down the Yahoo route where they're trying to be everything for everyone and in the process just becoming mediocre, which is a bummer.  Hope they correct course...

 

+1 for markdown...  :)

 

 

I disagree with both of you, I think you're engaging in a false equivalency argument that is made too often about software.  I don't think EN is even close to attempting to be all things to all people.  Just the opposite, they seem to routinely refuse to implement fairly standard functionality.  So instead of arguing they need to do less so you can get the feature you want, you should be arguing they do more so you get the feature you want :D.

 

Personally, the reason I simultaneously love and hate EN is precisely because they are so good at some things and so limited at other things, things that a lot of software makes easy.  The result is that like many users I find myself constantly trying to employ overly complex workarounds to achieve something that in my mind should be pretty straightforward.

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I don't think EN is even close to attempting to be all things to all people.  Just the opposite, they seem to routinely refuse to implement fairly standard functionality.  So instead of arguing they need to do less so you can get the feature you want, you should be arguing they do more so you get the feature you want :D.

 

 

Personally, the reason I simultaneously love and hate EN is precisely because they are so good at some things and so limited at other things, things that a lot of software makes easy.  The result is that like many users I find myself constantly trying to employ overly complex workarounds to achieve something that in my mind should be pretty straightforward.

 

 

I think I agree with you, in the sense that Evernote is not trying to do "too much." They're just doing the wrong things. They spend lots of effort on "improvements" that are either pathetically broken (reminders), duplicative of much more advanced services (reminders again) or trivial attempts to replicate features for casual users who won't ever pay (Food, Hello). Meanwhile, they ignore core improvements to the note-taking functionality, which is what serious users like me are paying for. 

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I think I agree with you, in the sense that Evernote is not trying to do "too much." They're just doing the wrong things. They spend lots of effort on "improvements" that are either pathetically broken (reminders), duplicative of much more advanced services (reminders again) or trivial attempts to replicate features for casual users who won't ever pay (Food, Hello). Meanwhile, they ignore core improvements to the note-taking functionality, which is what serious users like me are paying for. 

 

 

Could not agree more.  I did see a comment from one of the EN employees that the new Windows beta client is the "basis for a lot of new functionality going forward".  I can no longer get my hopes up after seeing so many requests ignored for so long, because if anything the new client only seems to show a huge amount of time spent on a redesign that no one asked for while offering next to 0 new useful features, but it did give me the faintest glimmer of hope that maybe some of these other things are in the pike.

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I think I agree with you, in the sense that Evernote is not trying to do "too much." They're just doing the wrong things. They spend lots of effort on "improvements" that are either pathetically broken (reminders), duplicative of much more advanced services (reminders again) or trivial attempts to replicate features for casual users who won't ever pay (Food, Hello). Meanwhile, they ignore core improvements to the note-taking functionality, which is what serious users like me are paying for.

 

Could not agree more.  I did see a comment from one of the EN employees that the new Windows beta client is the "basis for a lot of new functionality going forward".  I can no longer get my hopes up after seeing so many requests ignored for so long, because if anything the new client only seems to show a huge amount of time spent on a redesign that no one asked for while offering next to 0 new useful features, but it did give me the faintest glimmer of hope that maybe some of these other things are in the pike.

I agree that there is a lot of stuff I want to see done in the app. However, I also think they are moving forward with features that users have requested and need. The disjunction between joined and owned notebooks made sharing pretty useless until they remedied that in Fall 2012. In Winter 2013 they added Business, which I am sure has made a huge difference for some users, and will mean a new income stream. In Spring 2013 they added 2FA, Reminders, and Highlighters (coming shortly to Windows), which were long-requested items. I know there is a lot more they have done, but these are some of the big ones that I think have really improved the app. Think back to this time last year, and it is pretty clear that we have advanced leaps and bounds.

Again, I want to stress that there is a lot more I want to see as well. I regularly post here on the forums and bug the developers about the bugs, so they know what they are. I won't list everything here in this thread, because I don't want to take it off topic.

As far as markdown goes, as a heavy user of markdown (almost all of my notes), it would make a huge difference for me if I could have markdown support in the app. However, let's face it -- markdown isn't "mainstream." Sure, a lot of people use it, but ask your parents if they know what it is. Ask any student in school if they know what it is. Chances are, they have no idea. That's because it is still (in my opinion) a little bit of a niche feature.

Of course, I'd prefer markdown support over any number of other Evernote things, but that's because I have different priorities than the developers do. It's not that they are doing the "wrong" things. They just aren't doing all the things we want. Maybe we have to convince them that it would be worth the effort. I'm not sure how to do that, though. Perhaps, if they saw some specifics about use cases (not just +1 markdown, but actual explanations of how it would be used and the difference it would make), then that would help convince the teams that it is worth the effort.

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I agree that there is a lot of stuff I want to see done in the app. However, I also think they are moving forward with features that users have requested and need. The disjunction between joined and owned notebooks made sharing pretty useless until they remedied that in Fall 2012. In Winter 2013 they added Business, which I am sure has made a huge difference for some users, and will mean a new income stream. In Spring 2013 they added 2FA, Reminders, and Highlighters (coming shortly to Windows), which were long-requested items. I know there is a lot more they have done, but these are some of the big ones that I think have really improved the app. Think back to this time last year, and it is pretty clear that we have advanced leaps and bounds.

Again, I want to stress that there is a lot more I want to see as well. I regularly post here on the forums and bug the developers about the bugs, so they know what they are. I won't list everything here in this thread, because I don't want to take it off topic.

As far as markdown goes, as a heavy user of markdown (almost all of my notes), it would make a huge difference for me if I could have markdown support in the app. However, let's face it -- markdown isn't "mainstream." Sure, a lot of people use it, but ask your parents if they know what it is. Ask any student in school if they know what it is. Chances are, they have no idea. That's because it is still (in my opinion) a little bit of a niche feature.

Of course, I'd prefer markdown support over any number of other Evernote things, but that's because I have different priorities than the developers do. It's not that they are doing the "wrong" things. They just aren't doing all the things we want. Maybe we have to convince them that it would be worth the effort. I'm not sure how to do that, though. Perhaps, if they saw some specifics about use cases (not just +1 markdown, but actual explanations of how it would be used and the difference it would make), then that would help convince the teams that it is worth the effort.

 

 

My comments were about things over all.   Mark down is one small feature, and it's absolutely a geek feature that a very small subset of users will use, so I can understand them not making that a priority (though there is also nothing wrong with occasionally adding features for your power users).  Instead let's use the latest 5.0 beta as an example.  EN makes a huge deal out of it in their videos, says it's a complete re-imagining of the software or similar marketing speak.  As a power user, did you find ONE single new useful feature in it that excited you?  I didn't.  All I found was a new design that makes it unpleasant to use, my personal and business notebooks mixed together, so now it looks like we're going to have to drop the already half featured business product if they implement that, and a bunch of insignificant design changes like moving shortcuts to the side where users now have to scroll to get to them.

 

Let's just say that when a company brings out what is supposed to be a major new release, I'd hope to find maybe ONE really cool new feature that makes me enjoy using it more?  Or some of the features users have been asking for forever?  Instead they are now taking away features to help me "focus on what's most important to me" (more market speak).

 

Don't get me wrong, EN is an amazing product.  But right now I have no excitement or hope that they are bringing our cool new features.  Just the opposite, I'm actually worrying they are going to take away much needed features.

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I agree that there is a lot of stuff I want to see done in the app. However, I also think they are moving forward with features that users have requested and need. The disjunction between joined and owned notebooks made sharing pretty useless until they remedied that in Fall 2012. In Winter 2013 they added Business, which I am sure has made a huge difference for some users, and will mean a new income stream. In Spring 2013 they added 2FA, Reminders, and Highlighters (coming shortly to Windows), which were long-requested items. I know there is a lot more they have done, but these are some of the big ones that I think have really improved the app. Think back to this time last year, and it is pretty clear that we have advanced leaps and bounds.

Again, I want to stress that there is a lot more I want to see as well. I regularly post here on the forums and bug the developers about the bugs, so they know what they are. I won't list everything here in this thread, because I don't want to take it off topic.

As far as markdown goes, as a heavy user of markdown (almost all of my notes), it would make a huge difference for me if I could have markdown support in the app. However, let's face it -- markdown isn't "mainstream." Sure, a lot of people use it, but ask your parents if they know what it is. Ask any student in school if they know what it is. Chances are, they have no idea. That's because it is still (in my opinion) a little bit of a niche feature.

Of course, I'd prefer markdown support over any number of other Evernote things, but that's because I have different priorities than the developers do. It's not that they are doing the "wrong" things. They just aren't doing all the things we want. Maybe we have to convince them that it would be worth the effort. I'm not sure how to do that, though. Perhaps, if they saw some specifics about use cases (not just +1 markdown, but actual explanations of how it would be used and the difference it would make), then that would help convince the teams that it is worth the effort.

 

My comments were about things over all.   Mark down is one small feature, and it's absolutely a geek feature that a very small subset of users will use, so I can understand them not making that a priority (though there is also nothing wrong with occasionally adding features for your power users).  Instead let's use the latest 5.0 beta as an example.  EN makes a huge deal out of it in their videos, says it's a complete re-imagining of the software or similar marketing speak.  As a power user, did you find ONE single new useful feature in it that excited you?  I didn't.  All I found was a new design that makes it unpleasant to use, my personal and business notebooks mixed together, so now it looks like we're going to have to drop the already half featured business product if they implement that, and a bunch of insignificant design changes like moving shortcuts to the side where users now have to scroll to get to them.

 

Let's just say that when a company brings out what is supposed to be a major new release, I'd hope to find maybe ONE really cool new feature that makes me enjoy using it more?  Instead they are now taking away features to help me "focus on what's most important to me" (more market speak).

 

Don't get me wrong, EN is an amazing product.  But right now I have no excitement or hope that they are bringing our cool new features.  Just the opposite, I'm actually worrying they are going to take away much needed features.

I see. Well, I think you'll want to take those comments to the V5 thread, because this one is about markdown :)

Remember, these apps are coming together in terms of functionality. If you are looking for the shape of things to come for Windows, look no further than the most recent beta for the Mac. At least, that would be my guess.

Are the business and personal notes split up enough for you in the Mac version? Not as much as I would like (I dislike having tags from other people mixed into my tags), but they are OK. I can live with them. I think if you push for that instead of the current Windows implementation (I am a little behind on the betas, so I can't speak with specifics just now), then you can make a compelling case for changes.

There won't likely be markdown in the next Windows update, and I kind of doubt it is on the roadmap for Mac. After ETC we might get some sense of what new stuff is in the offing. My advice would be to make the most of what you have and try to find a way to work with the features that are disruptive for your use case.

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I see. Well, I think you'll want to take those comments to the V5 thread, because this one is about markdown :)

 

There won't likely be markdown in the next Windows update, and I kind of doubt it is on the roadmap for Mac. After ETC we might get some sense of what new stuff is in the offing. My advice would be to make the most of what you have and try to find a way to work with the features that are disruptive for your use case.

 

 

Right after you take your previous post that I was responding to, to the other thread :rolleyes:

 

 

 

Are the business and personal notes split up enough for you in the Mac version? Not as much as I would like (I dislike having tags from other people mixed into my tags), but they are OK. I can live with them. I think if you push for that instead of the current Windows implementation (I am a little behind on the betas, so I can't speak with specifics just now), then you can make a compelling case for changes.

 

Spoken like a true evangelist :P.  Why in the world would I want to push for the Windows client to take a step backward and become like the Mac client?  How about just not breaking it!  I simply want them to have a freaking clue about the needs of business users AND for that matter personal users, neither of which seem particularly keen on having their personal notebooks and business notebooks completely mixed together.  Didn't you even acknowledge this in the thread on the issue?  Did your desire to defend overcome your previous clear thinking :P:D.

 

Anyhow, to be clear, I am all for markdown, which is the subject of this thread, I just said I understand them not looking upon it as a priority.  But one would think they would look upon proper formatting, whatever method is used to achieve it, as priority.

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I see. Well, I think you'll want to take those comments to the V5 thread, because this one is about markdown :)

 

There won't likely be markdown in the next Windows update, and I kind of doubt it is on the roadmap for Mac. After ETC we might get some sense of what new stuff is in the offing. My advice would be to make the most of what you have and try to find a way to work with the features that are disruptive for your use case.

 

Right after you take your previous post that I was responding to, to the other thread :rolleyes:

Start a thread about the issues you raise and I'll be happy to discuss all of the stuff you brought up :) Let's leave this thread for markdown.

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My advice would be to make the most of what you have and try to find a way to work with the features that are disruptive for your use case.

 

That's what I've been doing, obviously. But the more time I spend working around Evernote's deficiencies, or using other tools to make up for them, the more I wonder why I'm paying for Evernote at all. If you are right that this trend is going to continue, I doubt I'll be a paid customer for much longer. 

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I see. Well, I think you'll want to take those comments to the V5 thread, because this one is about markdown :)

 

There won't likely be markdown in the next Windows update, and I kind of doubt it is on the roadmap for Mac. After ETC we might get some sense of what new stuff is in the offing. My advice would be to make the most of what you have and try to find a way to work with the features that are disruptive for your use case.

 

Right after you take your previous post that I was responding to, to the other thread :rolleyes:

 

Start a thread about the issues you raise and I'll be happy to discuss all of the stuff you brought up :) Let's leave this thread for markdown.

 

 

Yes, would you do that please, and stop taking this thread off the topic of markdown please?  Thanks a lot.

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My advice would be to make the most of what you have and try to find a way to work with the features that are disruptive for your use case.

 

That's what I've been doing, obviously.

 

I bolded the relevant part ;).  As do most of us ;), so it's gets tiring being giving advice like that.

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My advice would be to make the most of what you have and try to find a way to work with the features that are disruptive for your use case.

 

That's what I've been doing, obviously. But the more time I spend working around Evernote's deficiencies, or using other tools to make up for them, the more I wonder why I'm paying for Evernote at all. If you are right that this trend is going to continue, I doubt I'll be a paid customer for much longer.

I was replying to ZZZ with that advice. Although I think it applies for all of us, it was not directed specifically at you. In fact, we both seem to have dealt with the lack of Markdown support with similar workarounds.

I am not terribly good at prognostication, and I don't think Evernote has given us enough information to make very educated guesses as to how they feel about Markdown, but I'll take a stab at it and say that Markdown support is unlikely to come if they see it affecting a relatively small percentage of the user base (I am afraid I also think it is not going to be as big as highlighters and reminders), because they have said in the past that they are looking to focus on features that will impact lots of users.

If by "trend" you mean the tendency to support features for the general user over that for power users, then I don't see that changing anytime soon. Personally, I think there is significant overlap between the two kinds of users, and if Markdown were implemented well, it could benefit both. I would encourage Evernote to stop dividing up the user base this way (assuming that they do).

How could such an implementation work? For a long time now I have been advocating for Evernote plug-ins or extensions (like we have for browsers) so that we don't have to use totally different apps just to use features like Markdown. Unfortunately, for Markdown support to work smoothly under the current system, some third party would have to develop an entirely independent app that works similar to the main client, but also has Markdown. I kind of doubt that is on the horizon.

I could imagine someone making an app that renders your notes in Markdown, of course, but to me that wouldn't be a huge step up from the current workflow of copy/pasting into already existing apps. I could be wrong, though. Maybe some developer will figure out an effortless way to make this happen. At any rate, the trend is not towards specialized features like Markdown (in my opinion). I am not an Evernote employee. I am just speaking as a fellow user on the outside looking in.

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+1 for markdown, it would make life so much easier for me if I can use it. Using markdown means I dont have to be annoyed how stuff gets made pretty.

 

I understand that EN does not make its roadmap available but a single response in 5 years? I am a bit disappointed in that.

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It's funny Markdown is seen as a geek feature but what do I know being a geek? :-) ...

 

If you explain Markdown to someone (and it takes 5 minutes) they ought to be able to get it - and it's a hell of a lot simpler than HTML.

 

FWIW I found it very easy last night to automate in Editorial on iPad sending as an email into Evernote, complete with Notebook Name and Title. Now THAT might be geeky. :-)

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It's funny Markdown is seen as a geek feature but what do I know being a geek? :-) ...

 

If you explain Markdown to someone (and it takes 5 minutes) they ought to be able to get it - and it's a hell of a lot simpler than HTML.

 

FWIW I found it very easy last night to automate in Editorial on iPad sending as an email into Evernote, complete with Notebook Name and Title. Now THAT might be geeky. :-)

 

There are many levels of geekiness out there! I have ranked some of the apps I use on a nerdiness scale (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=51). I think the problem here is that you even want to use plain text at all -- this is where the fact that you have cultivated your geekiness / nerdiness becomes apparent.

 

In my opinion, Evernote is no Angry Birds, and if you even have Evernote on your devices, you probably have a little bit of geek or nerd in you. It is cultivating it to the extent that you desire markdown that really increases your geek/nerd cred.

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One of the nice things about plain text - which is about half of the case for Markdown - is it's readily easy to generate.

 

Now, I haven't ever generated Markdown from a program. But I feel I just might. And one of the nice things about Editorial is that it could do just that. (For example nice footnote management.) And it could do it within the app itself. So this might be my first stab at it.

 

I was just thinking about the Markdown "star for list item" thing: If someone complains about it as introducing strange markup I'd ask "would you rather it were a dot or some other fake bullet character?" It seems to me we use markup in lots of places (I saw a teleprompter with the speaker's name in brackets this morning, for instance) so the barrier to entry is low.

 

But I digress: The currency here is getting it into Evernote, not whether Markdown is a great idea. But it being close to natural is a part of it.

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@KenF I like the fact Byword is in both places and supports MultiMarkDown. Editorial, on the other hand, has Python and Automation. Having bought both I'll probably use both - and they weren't expensive enough to only buy one of them. (And I still use Byword on the Mac.)

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This nonsense about bags and socks is really childish.

 

Do you honestly think that the same people who are re-writing the editor are also involved in the Market?

 

Perhaps it's your understanding of how large companies work that is "childish." Do you honestly think the people implementing market, or editor features, make their own decisions about their priorities?  Evernote, and any maturely run company, makes decisions on product strategy at an executive level, and those decisions then drive budgeting, goals, etc, for each group. Evernote, as a company, is clearly choosing to focus on one group of not-at-all-average people (techie enough to use an online note service, wealthy/foolish enough to spend money on special pens, postits, Moleskine notebooks, etc) rather than the group of not-at-all-average people like me (who are serious about writing/organizing/note-taking). 

 

 

Yes, if you are a bit techie then you are probably very familiar with it, but the average Joe is I am sure blissfully unaware.

 

Markdown is hardly "techie." It was created as a markup language for people who either didn't understand, or didn't want to bother typing, HTML. 

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It appears that those who want markdown will have to wallow in their disappointment along with those wanting nested notebooks & a Linux client.

 

I know you don't speak for Evernote, but this is exactly what I believe the company's attitude is. And it's not for me to judge your preference for wallowing; I'd rather continue pursuing worthwhile workarounds or alternatives, and evaluating whether or not I should remain a paying customer of the company. 

 

 

 

As I said, any company must make decisions based upon priorities.  I'm sure they wish they could please ALL 100+ million users, but of course, that's not possible.  Rather than ascribe attitudes to Evernote that really only simply reflect your dissatisfaction is unfounded and quite frankly, serve no purpose.  Your goal of "pursuing worthwhile workarounds or alternatives", OTOH, is useful & is exactly what many of us regularly post here on the board to those who say feature XXX is a dealbreaker.  Since EN does not post their roadmap, each user must decide if their prized missing feature is a deal breaker (and find an alternative app) or find a viable workaround.  That's pretty much how many things in life work.

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In addition to what Jefito & Metrodon said, there are only so many things any one or any company can do & do well. The forum is filled with dozens & dozens of feature requests. EN must make decisions about what they will add & what they will not add (for whatever reason). Then the items they have decided to add must be prioritized & some of those features should sync & work across all the clients. IE, highlighting, reminders, shortcuts, etc. So there are always going to be those who are disappointed that their particular feature request is not granted. It appears that those who want markdown will have to wallow in their disappointment along with those wanting nested notebooks & a Linux client.

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I think Markdown is the very best to write quickliy.

 

Evernote has a concept, where Markdown fits perfectly.

 

Just a few weeks ago I did not know about Evernote, and now, I can't think of a morning, I won't take a look on my phone first.

 

A few (useful) futures would be great:

 

As said before:

 

- Markdown

 

Write write write.. Don't have to think about clicking on each word you want to have boldface/italic/etc.

 

Don't have to mark every single heading to set it boldface, maybe underlined, greater size, a.s.o.

 

- ToDo-Lists

 

I found a way to use Evernote as my ToDo-List already.. But.. I can explain..

 

1. set a notebook called ToDo

2. move this notebook to a stack called Important (to not have 'alphabetical problems' i called it ###__IMPORTANT__###)

3. added a new notebook to this stack called Seperate/Timed ToDos (to not have hundreds of notes in THE todo-notebook)

4. added note to ToDo called ...yeah not very good... ToDo (Here I have one List)

5. splitted this list into Today/Then/Special Date/One Day In The Very Future/Tasks Done

 

When I have a thing to do on a special date:

 

1. add a note to Seperate/Timed ToDos called e.g. Birthdaypresent for Rob

2. add an entry Birthdaypresent for Rob to my Special Date section in the ToDo-List

3. link the note I made in (1) to the entry I made in (2)

 

... I think you understand what I mean...

 

And this is (in my opinion) one of the easiest ways to 'construct' a ToDo-List...

 

Gentlemen - Theres a lot to do there ;)

 

- Favorites-Section (like in mac app?)

 

Don't know if I am blind, but I did not found a favorite section neither on Android-App and on Win-App.

 

...Thin this is enough atm.

 

Hope I wrote this in the right section here in the Forum!

 

Except of a few things, Evernote rocks! ;)

 

Use it for Private notes, for ToDo-List (maah.. in a very complicated way..), for organizing websites for a acapella-musicgroup, a faculty at university, for work, for journeys ....

 

Keep up the good work and implement a little more ;)

 

Cheers!

wohfab

 

+1 for the suggestion

 

+2 for the excellent explanation / use case

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+1 for Markdown support.

 

Might I suggest that markdown and its variants can happily replace 90% of what folks do in the average wordprocessor? This means your text is liberated from proprietary formats (although having said that EN is a proprietary format!). The real benefit of Markdown is that is can be converted into just about any format needed easily. As markdown is plain text it would also reduce the file size considerably from RTF.

 

My suggestion for markdown implementation would be similar to many ios apps that show the markdown syntax in grey and immediately render the formatting. The only area that seems to be problematic are links. It would be useful to show them rendered and allow editing via the menu or shortcut key (command+K). Although I'm sure many have better suggestions. IAwriter and Byword on ios have great markdown rendering whilst typing imho.

 

As a side note I don't find EN bloated or overly complex or trying to be all things to all men. There a very few features I do not use apart from some of the formatting as I mainly use plain text and markdown. The great strength of EN for me is that it's a place for everything. Proprietary format files, images, audio, email, web clippings and of course text. If I was using text alone I'd probably go with a wiki, but with EN I essentially need to use very few other apps. I can interlink my info create indexes, use it for GTD and can get everything easily in and easily out. What's not to like? Information no longer comes to me in text only so I need something that caters for that and for my context it beats Devonthink and others. The premium search is awesome! Where others see the subscription and cloud as a problem, for my it provides flexibility and backup. I can as easily get at my info on my iphone or ipad as with my macbook air.

 

Sorry for the digression.

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+1 for Markdown support.

 

Might I suggest that markdown and its variants can happily replace 90% of what folks do in the average wordprocessor? This means your text is liberated from proprietary formats (although having said that EN is a proprietary format!). The real benefit of Markdown is that is can be converted into just about any format needed easily. As markdown is plain text it would also reduce the file size considerably from RTF.

 

My suggestion for markdown implementation would be similar to many ios apps that show the markdown syntax in grey and immediately render the formatting. The only area that seems to be problematic are links. It would be useful to show them rendered and allow editing via the menu or shortcut key (command+K). Although I'm sure many have better suggestions. IAwriter and Byword on ios have great markdown rendering whilst typing imho.

 

As a side note I don't find EN bloated or overly complex or trying to be all things to all men. There a very few features I do not use apart from some of the formatting as I mainly use plain text and markdown. The great strength of EN for me is that it's a place for everything. Proprietary format files, images, audio, email, web clippings and of course text. If I was using text alone I'd probably go with a wiki, but with EN I essentially need to use very few other apps. I can interlink my info create indexes, use it for GTD and can get everything easily in and easily out. What's not to like? Information no longer comes to me in text only so I need something that caters for that and for my context it beats Devonthink and others. The premium search is awesome! Where others see the subscription and cloud as a problem, for my it provides flexibility and backup. I can as easily get at my info on my iphone or ipad as with my macbook air.

 

Sorry for the digression.

 

Appreciate the post; it just seems that Evernote's efforts on its flagship product are being diluted with their efforts on all of their other products: http://evernote.com/products/

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+1 for Markdown support.

 

Might I suggest that markdown and its variants can happily replace 90% of what folks do in the average wordprocessor? This means your text is liberated from proprietary formats (although having said that EN is a proprietary format!). The real benefit of Markdown is that is can be converted into just about any format needed easily. As markdown is plain text it would also reduce the file size considerably from RTF.

 

My suggestion for markdown implementation would be similar to many ios apps that show the markdown syntax in grey and immediately render the formatting. The only area that seems to be problematic are links. It would be useful to show them rendered and allow editing via the menu or shortcut key (command+K). Although I'm sure many have better suggestions. IAwriter and Byword on ios have great markdown rendering whilst typing imho.

 

As a side note I don't find EN bloated or overly complex or trying to be all things to all men. There a very few features I do not use apart from some of the formatting as I mainly use plain text and markdown. The great strength of EN for me is that it's a place for everything. Proprietary format files, images, audio, email, web clippings and of course text. If I was using text alone I'd probably go with a wiki, but with EN I essentially need to use very few other apps. I can interlink my info create indexes, use it for GTD and can get everything easily in and easily out. What's not to like? Information no longer comes to me in text only so I need something that caters for that and for my context it beats Devonthink and others. The premium search is awesome! Where others see the subscription and cloud as a problem, for my it provides flexibility and backup. I can as easily get at my info on my iphone or ipad as with my macbook air.

 

Sorry for the digression.

Lots of good points here. I use Evernote on Windows, Mac, iPhone, and iPad. I use Evernote as my repository for things collected, and I use it to store/develop first drafts of articles. The text tools are inconsistent across the environments and there are bugs. The one glaring need is for paragraph styles in all environments. They are supported in the mobile apps but not the desktop apps. It seems like Markdown can fit right in with styles. The existing Evernote mobile apps support headings, so it seems like HTML heading 1 <H1> and Markdown heading 1 <#> could be handled similarly for those of us who want to work in Markdown then eventually deploy outside of Evernote. With Markdown support, Evernote would be even more amazingly useful! 

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Please folks, don't mix two discussions here. The markdown feature is too important as we should mix it with a merchandising thread… although we should start it at some other  place… will be fun  ;)

 

Back to topic. 

 

As I wrote earlier in this discussion, I don't believe the EN guys will ever implement this markdown feature. I also checked the public beta of 5.6.0 of the new Mac version. And since there is no feedback from the EN folks here, we had to move on.

 

As Mike Korner wrote, in the meantime we also did established a different workflow. But since I can't trust Dropbox, we installed a Git on our server and created a special repository for some stuff. If you think Git is too techie, please know even our assistants are working with that, using a tool like Gitbox for checking in and out. So we are creating and maintaining our files in all formats we need - we're not using just Markdown, but also AsciiDoc for our documentation. The files were created with the writing tools of our choice, every employee has its own favorite (BBEdit, Ulysses, Textedit etc). With Git we do have not only the perfect synchronization, but also the best version comparison (which is another weakness of EN, see this thread). Later, when a version of the file is finished, it will be exported and embedded as a final version into Evernote. The target format depends on the later usage of the file. Unfortunately we can not use EN for sending out PDFs to our customers because of this issue) - so, most notes are in RTF and HTML format.

 

Ok, I just realized that I also mix discussions here (adding the versioning and mailing issue). But please understand this only as an additional description to explain what and why we're doing this and that.

 

You may realized our main use of EN is now only to store files. Changes in EN notes are very rare. I just stick to EN because of this blog post of Phil Libin. After he promised to increase the quality, I decided to give him another year (maybe a little more) to work on the tool.

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This nonsense about bags and socks is really childish.

 

Do you honestly think that the same people who are re-writing the editor are also involved in the Market?

 

As it stands at the moment, it looks like they aren't going to support Markdown - it's not really surprising, I wonder how many of the 100m+ users even know what Markdown is.

 

Yes, if you are a bit techie then you are probably very familiar with it, but the average Joe is I am sure blissfully unaware.

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No, not really. As I wrote in my last paragraph, I'll give EN the time to improve. 

 

 

I'm sorry, yes, I edited my post to reflect that. I am as well (obviously, or I wouldn't spend time posting here), but increasingly I wonder why. My question wasn't a troll though; I'm seriously asking what role Evernote's software plays in your solution. Not as in "What's wrong with you that you're still using it," but as in, "Is there value here that I'm missing?"

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I don't know which client you are using, but the Mac has "Make Plain Text," which will strip out the formatting and ought to leave you with a monospace font (you can adjust this in the Preferences). 

 

 

I think the reason Evernote doesn't have plain text (a .txt file) is that EVERYTHING in Evernote is contained within an .xhtml file (they use a modified version called .enex), so it is impossible (as I understand it) to have pure plain text. I think this is a limitation we have to accept. That said, as I posted on my blog, it is "good enough" for some use cases.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=1564

 

Ideally, Evernote would support Markdown within the app (by support, I mean render the Markdown in .html, perhaps in a separate window), and maybe it will someday. At the moment, you'll have to export out of the app into another one (this is what I do), or copy/paste.

 

 

1. I'm not using the Mac client. And when it "makes plain text", is it actually making the note plain text or is it simply the same as Simplify Formatting? Based on your own description of the fact that "EVERYTHING in Evernote is contained within an .xhtml file", then I'd say no, the Mac client isn't actually making it plaintext either.

 

2. I understand that everything is within an XHTML file. But how would that make it impossible to be plaintext? XHTML *is* a text file, simply showing as formatted otherwise, thanks to an interpreter/renderer.

 

3. I f it was good enough, then why would we all be asking for proper plaintext support. I'd argue that "good enough" isn't good enough. And your blog post (and many others) all seem to point to adding extra steps to the  process, whether through an add-on or an additional application. Why would it be so hard to allow Evernote notes to be either in .ENEX or plaintext?

 

We're asking for a feature, but you're arguing that we should just be happy with what already exists. Why?

 

 

1. It takes it a bit further than simplify formatting. You lose images, note links, etc. when you apply plain text. In terms of the .enex, almost nothing is left for rendering purposes.

 

2. It is a text file that has to be interpreted by the app, so it needs cues like headers, <div>, etc. That is my understanding, anyhow, and if that is the case, then "true" plain text is impossible (given the constraints of the service).

 

3. I agree that it would be "ideal" if we had Markdown support, though I don't think we will ever be able to see .txt support. It could be a limitation of my imagination or it could be that I am just plain wrong, but that is my understanding of how the service works.

 

I am asking for the feature as well. Please read my posts -- "Ideally, Evernote would support Markdown within the app..." I've also got a bunch of blog posts extolling the virtues of plain text, so please understand that I would be very happy to see plain text and Markdown support. 

 

However, I believe there are technical limitations and perhaps practical considerations in Evernote that will prevent us from seeing plain text. This is a discussion forum and I am expressing my views. Occasionally, I am totally wrong. Maybe this will be one of those cases. In the meantime, if / until we ever get Markdown support, I am suggesting solutions that are "good enough for some use cases." 

 

It sounds like you are not one of those use cases. That's cool. For the benefit of other users, though, I think it is worth making suggestions. Feel free to ignore them if you want.

 

 

 

Frankly, as a business, I think Evernote is smart to focus on these folks.

 

I don't buy that. We're not talking about people who are saying "support RTF" vs "support HTML". This is plaintext, which is what the damn .ENEX files are already actually in.

 

That's cool. Again, I could be totally wrong. It is just my opinion based on what I know about the service. 

 

[EDIT:] By the way, smarter people than me have tackled this question over the years. Here is one of the answers -- basically, it is conceivable, but not without reworking the service, and it would still (as I understand it) need to be contained inside of an .enml wrapper.

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/22897-wheres-evernote-going/page-2#entry119356

 

If you read the thread, you'll see that I was asking for exactly the same thing you are (plaintext) a couple years ago. I've decided (based on what I have read) that it is unlikely to happen, and perhaps even impossible within the app. Perhaps, as I said, I am wrong. 

 

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+1 multimarkdown support - especially now that I've discovered http://www.postach.io as a blogging platform that integrates with EN and supports markdown.

I think it has got to be implemented well, though. Personally, I like how VoodooPad and nvALT handle it -- notes in plain text on one side and html version on the other. Press ctrl + cmd + p and it displays the html. Press it again and it closes. Simple, right?

What about tabs, though? I am not sure how that will work, because Evernote doesn't recognize tabs as a plain text note would. I think there are lots of other nice things that plain text programs do. If Evernote could incorporate those WITH the markup, then this would work beautifully.

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It appears that those who want markdown will have to wallow in their disappointment along with those wanting nested notebooks & a Linux client.

 

I know you don't speak for Evernote, but this is exactly what I believe the company's attitude is. And it's not for me to judge your preference for wallowing; I'd rather continue pursuing worthwhile workarounds or alternatives, and evaluating whether or not I should remain a paying customer of the company. 

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Markdown is a great way to format notes. It is simple, efficient and is a great timesaver.

 

Markdown is used a bunch in the computer engineering world (GitHub & StackOverflow use markdown).

 

And I will note that if I create a simple note from Evernote, pasted it into the VI editor from my Mac or Windows boxes, the result ends up looking very, very close to GitHub-flavored Markdown. Bold and Italic doesn't render correctly, but bulleted lists and numbered lists work great and Task List items (e.g. [ ] in GFM):

testbolditalic[ ]todo[ ]todo2   * Bullet   * Bullet2  1. number list  2. number list2

What does this mean, it means that Evernote is already part way there.

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A massive +1 for this feature request from my side.

 

I'm a premium user since years, but really about to let my subscription run out end of the current period. Why? Because writing, styling and editing notes is broken. Browsing my notes, which come from various devices and sources is a visual mess! I am designer and programmer, therefore I'm sensitive about that. But I don't have much demand of Evernote styling my notes at all. I just want simple markup: defining headlines, bold, italic, bullet point lists, quotes, preformatted code. That's about it. And I would like to be able doing this from any device in a consistent matter. The method of manually selecting a larger font size for headlines does not make sense (let alone I can't even select e.g. 20pt on all devices!). I just want to say it's a H1 (or a #).

 

I'm aware: we demanding this are probably not the average Evernote user. But we are the ones caring. Don't let the geeky early adopters run away to the competitors. You know they are the ones that made you what you are today.

 

Thanks for listening.

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I'm aware: we demanding this are probably not the average Evernote user. But we are the ones caring. Don't let the geeky early adopters run away to the competitors. You know they are the ones that made you what you are today.

 

Not really are what that comment about "the ones caring" is supposed to mean. And guess what...all 65+ million users are the ones who made Evernote what it is today...as well as the Evernote developers.

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@psteinweber Just curious: Do you really have no workarounds at all? Thinking of e.g. Byword on Mac and Editorial on iPad.

 

Martin, At some point it becomes easier to just use the workarounds instead of Evernote. That's a shame. I use Evernote on an iPhone, iPad, Mac, and Windows computer today. I also have to have a text editor workaround on each device. That's a shame. It feel like Evernote has gone out of its way to enhance/fix about everything but its text editor. For example, the new reminders and presentation features are nice, but it would be great to get a little love in the text editor so we can quit looking at workarounds. I love Evernote but the text part of it is painful in places. I'm never going to use Evernote for Presentations, for example, because it's too painful to put the text together. I have to manually format headings, body text, etc. And worse, I have to manually apply the same formats over and over and over and over. Add in a few text handling bugs and it's pretty annoying. 

 

Adding simple styles seems reasonable and Markdown is just one option. I want to use Evernote for collecting and working on article ideas, then when it's time to move a note from Evernote (due to needing some capabilities beyond what Evernote is built for), I want to get the text out of Evernote quickly so I can keep using the text without a bunch of reformatting. 

 

I'm as big of Evernote fan as there is -- I'm a premium member as an act of support (not because I need the extra capacity) -- but with all the workarounds I have in place I'm starting to think my premium $$$ would be better spent on better workaround tools. That's a shame since the text suggestions are basic features available in all of the workaround tools I'm using. 

 

Just sharing my perspective on why things like Markdown are being requested. 

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@Mike Korner I agree. I was just curious about how people are coping with the lack of support. With the various workarounds on the various platforms.

 

Personally I sort of have it covered on numerous platforms but not my main one: Linux. I guess I should there do like I did on iOS with Editorial: Hack together a "Markdown to HTML and email into Evernote" workaround.

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I write just about everything in markdown. I do it out of a desire to be as future proof, or at least future resistant, as possible. I've moved through several note-taking programs over the years, and the markdown stuff has shown its value. My notes look nice everywhere, except for Evernote, which doesn't support markdown.

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@psteinweber Just curious: Do you really have no workarounds at all? Thinking of e.g. Byword on Mac and Editorial on iPad.

There are two big problems with workarounds and third party apps.

1. They introduce another unnecessary layer of complexity, which increases the chance of bugs, adds another layer of support issues (is the product even going to be around in 6 months) and make my life more complicated in general. Evernote is supposed to simplify and organize my life, and if it becomes too complicated to use then I stop using it.

 

2. Workaround and third party apps don't work consistantly across platforms, and often third party apps only work on one platform. This means I need to use one work flow on a Mac and a second workflow on Windows. Evernote already has enough cross-platform inconsistancies which interfere with my willingness to use Evernote.

 

Markdown is fairly simple, and could provide a consistant, simple editing abilities on Windows, Mac and the web platforms.

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By this I understand that there's a file association of Markdown files and a Markdown editor? Is that via file extension, or some OS attribute? I'm not particularly Mac-savvy, so that's all good information for the discussion. Unfortunately, that still leaves Markdown in somewhat the same situation as LaTex.

 

 

I believe it's via the OS's usual extension-to-application mappings.  When I open a `.md` file it opens with the same application that's the default when I double-click a `.md` file in the Finder.  Similarly, the `Open With` submenu contains the same list of Markdown-supporting applications as the Finder.

 

OK, so pretty similar to Windows and other OS's. No great surprise there, but good to get the verification. Thanks.

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Frankly, as a business, I think Evernote is smart to focus on these folks.

 

I don't buy that. We're not talking about people who are saying "support RTF" vs "support HTML". This is plaintext, which is what the damn .ENEX files are already actually in.

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I don't know which client you are using, but the Mac has "Make Plain Text," which will strip out the formatting and ought to leave you with a monospace font (you can adjust this in the Preferences). 

 

 

I think the reason Evernote doesn't have plain text (a .txt file) is that EVERYTHING in Evernote is contained within an .xhtml file (they use a modified version called .enex), so it is impossible (as I understand it) to have pure plain text. I think this is a limitation we have to accept. That said, as I posted on my blog, it is "good enough" for some use cases.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=1564

 

Ideally, Evernote would support Markdown within the app (by support, I mean render the Markdown in .html, perhaps in a separate window), and maybe it will someday. At the moment, you'll have to export out of the app into another one (this is what I do), or copy/paste.

 

 

1. I'm not using the Mac client. And when it "makes plain text", is it actually making the note plain text or is it simply the same as Simplify Formatting? Based on your own description of the fact that "EVERYTHING in Evernote is contained within an .xhtml file", then I'd say no, the Mac client isn't actually making it plaintext either.

 

2. I understand that everything is within an XHTML file. But how would that make it impossible to be plaintext? XHTML *is* a text file, simply showing as formatted otherwise, thanks to an interpreter/renderer.

 

3. I f it was good enough, then why would we all be asking for proper plaintext support. I'd argue that "good enough" isn't good enough. And your blog post (and many others) all seem to point to adding extra steps to the  process, whether through an add-on or an additional application. Why would it be so hard to allow Evernote notes to be either in .ENEX or plaintext?

 

We're asking for a feature, but you're arguing that we should just be happy with what already exists. Why?

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Sounds like you've also addressed a problem outside the scope of this thread (workflow and versioning), and I'd love to read more about the solution you've created. But it sounds like you're ready to move on completely from Evernote. Surely it wouldn't be much more work to add tagging and searching? 

 

 

 

Ok, I just realized that I also mix discussions here (adding the versioning and mailing issue). But please understand this only as an additional description to explain what and why we're doing this and that.

 

You may realized our main use of EN is now only to store files. Changes in EN notes are very rare. I just stick to EN because of this blog post of Phil Libin. After he promised to increase the quality, I decided to give him another year (maybe a little more) to work on the tool.

 

 

 

No, not really. As I wrote in my last paragraph, I'll give EN the time to improve. 

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It's just asking for Evernote to support inline preview for Markdown attachments (much like it does for PDFs, Excel spreadsheets, and others).  This would scratch my itch as far as Markdown in Evernote is concerned, and hopefully shouldn't be too difficult to implement.

You should note that some Evernote clients don't support all of the named previews on all clients; e.g. PDF is previewed on the Windows, but not the MS Office formats; the Android and web clients don't even preview PDFs. It's anybody's guess as to how easy / difficult it'd be for Evernote to implement. One problem: it's not clear that there is an official way to recognize Markdown files via file extension (which is what you need to identify attachments at Markdown-previewable); there's a case for ".md" and ".markdown" an others, but also for ".text".  There's also the problem of whose Markdown are you going to recognize, as there are several variations. None of these are insurmountable, but they do present obstacles to implementation.

 

Links:

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/01/08/markdown-extension

http://superuser.com/questions/249436/file-extension-for-markdown-files

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown.

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Hi. Raw markdown? Do you mean plain text? Evernote works just fine with plain text (actually, not really plain text, but close enough).

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=1564

As for using Evernote as the "database" for something else, it is possible through a third party integration, but no one has done it for Markdown. The API is there if anyone wants to make the app!

 

 

Yep, I'm a very modest person :D

 

So what I would like to see is builtin support for ODB (makes the workflow for editing text soooo much better) - something that needs to implemented by Evernote. But the "markdown" iOS editor could be implemented by someone else ... perhaps one already exists?

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Maybe you could have a look at Drafts from Agile Tortoise in the AppStore ? It is a plain text editor with support to Markdown. It has many way to export to other apps. I'm using it to write notes with Markdown then sending it directly to EN. Works real fine !

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However, I don't think we need <pre> just to get Markdown rendering support. Theoretically, the app ought to be able to easily handle Markdown support (I think) even if we are working in rich text (by ignoring any .enml tags).

Markdown support entails:

  • Being able to understand some Markdown dialect (duh! But you need to pick the dialect first)
  • Being able to faithfully map that Markdown dialect into supported Evernote ENML constructs. That seems feasible.
  • Being able to faithfully map supported Evernote ENML back into Markdown. This is where I go "uh-oh". Markdown was, in its inception, at least, a text --> HTML conversion tool (https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/). Now you can find tools out there that at least claim to go HTML --> Markdown. I've never used one, so I can't verify how well they work. But what I can tell you is that if Evernote can't provide a faithful and seamless roundtrip between ENML and Markdown, then that just opens the door to more customer unhappiness. I've seen a similar effect in a Wiki tool (might have been Atlassian's Confluence) that let you edit your entries in either rich text or in Markdown, and you could switch either way just by pressing a button. The problem was that it could lose formatting when going back and forth, and that was exceedingly frustrating. It's either that or you wind up in the same situation as some of the formatting on mobile devices ("Sorry, but we can't handle that formatting") and that's not a good place to be. Or maybe an input-only Markdown control, ditto.

HTML is not my realm of expertise, but the mix here just seems, well, fraught with potential difficulties. Let's face it, if and until they can nail down the current editing problems (well known to one and all), I'd just as soon they held back on something like this. 

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I agree with the need for (Multi)Markdown support with Evernote. If I ever quit my Premium membership, this will probably be the reason. In the meanwhile I am testing Markdown Here add-on and the Byword app, which can publish to Evernote. However, being able to freely toggle in Evernote would be the best. 

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Thanks for the interesting discussions. I agree totally with KenF that Evernote will never add this feature to the product. Their lack of attention to their core product staggers the imagination, but they must be making good money on overpriced rucksacks, leather notebooks, and business socks. Emanual offered a good suggestion on using .md attachments. I just tested this successfully using Byword. The problem is that it is tied to a single platform, which is one of the constraints I was trying to use Evernote to solve.

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I think there is a mix up here between two things:

  • The functionality of using markdown (or plain text file - if we get one we get the other)
  • The format used to store the notes

I don't see how Markdown and plain text are equivalent. Sure, Markup is done using plain text (so is HTML), but that's not what it represents. You don't get Markdown automatically if you have plain text (ask my text editor). It has to be interpreted. You can store Markdown and HTML in a note already. Is that what's wanted? I don't think so, but what you (and maybe GM) are asking for isn't actually all that clear to me. Not that it matters -- it needs to be clear to Evernote, though.

 

(2) is something else and probably only of interest to developers of programs that uses the API. But I opened an enml file and took a quick look (no I didn't read the docs :) ) and from what I can see it's an XML file ... which means that it just a matter of defining what you want to store and create a definition of how it should look like. To me it looks like Evernote stores one note per enml file with one content node per file. The content seem to be a note node with some attributes and then HTML code in the text node. So storing plain text here shouldn't be a problem (displaying it is another thing).

ENML Format: XHTML subset, with augmentation. See http://dev.evernote.com/doc/articles/enml.php.

More than one note can be stored per file (easy enough to do, at least in the Windows client, and probably the Mac. Select some notes and export them -- they'll come out as one file.

 

So I'm pretty sure that it isn't a technical issue that has prevented us from seeing markdown support in Evernote, but a design decision - which might change over time.

I believe it's a practical decision, based on technical reasons. See, e.g., post #5 in this topic: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/33759-markdown-wysiwyg-support-plz/?p=40681, post #14 http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/33759-markdown-wysiwyg-support-plz/?p=64718 and so on. They can't provide a full editing experience with Markdown, so it's unlikely to happen. That could change, I do understand.

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+1

 

Been transitioning over to Evernote for EVERYTHING and love the efficiency of a cloudy one-stop-shop EXCEPT that it's inability to handle Markdown (or even just simple code snippet insert) is causing quite a bit of pain.  Would really love to see this added.  Cheers!

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Plain text / Markdown, Latex, MathML and SVG: These are all aspects of the same thing: A much more polyglot approach to note content.

 

I still don't understand why XML in its various forms (or a subset of them) isn't supported. And I use the words "I don't understand" as there's probably some reasonable engineering explanation.

 

It might not be an engineering explanation. It might be a niche use case one. Honestly, at least in my circles, very few people use Markdown or LaTex. An overwhelming majority just want WYSIWYG, and they are quite satisfied with the rich text options available. Frankly, as a business, I think Evernote is smart to focus on these folks.

 

Yes, it makes it more difficult for me, because I rely on Markdown, but I can understand why they might have decided not to support it (yet). I could be wrong! Maybe the developers there don't use Markdown and this is the first they are hearing about it :) My guess, though, is that they do know all about it, and they even realize its benefits. They tend to be pretty knowledgable about such things. However, there are also business decisions to make that are a separate thing entirely. 

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Apparently both <pre> and <code> are legal in ENML. Not sure why that doesn't cover the plain text need - but then I don't understand it.

 

I agree. It's not "really" plain text, though, because it has the <pre> tag in it. It would be fine with me if we had that. In the end, it wouldn't affect my current workflow at all (see the link I posted above).

 

However, I don't think we need <pre> just to get Markdown rendering support. Theoretically, the app ought to be able to easily handle Markdown support (I think) even if we are working in rich text (by ignoring any .enml tags).

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