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Shane D.

Update to Evernote Subscription Plans

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Hi All,

I wanted to provide an update regarding some changes being made to Evernote's subscription plans.

Beginning in early April 2018, we will remove the option to purchase new Plus subscriptions. For current Plus subscribers, nothing will change. Your subscription will continue to renew and you can still expect to see all of the ongoing improvements to Evernote, including note editing and formatting, search, organization, and more.

So, why the change? In the three years since it was introduced, Plus has proven to be less popular than we thought it would be. This tells us that we need to find a better solution to meet your needs.

We believe gathering customer feedback will help determine what those needs are. In the meantime, we will hold off on selling new Plus subscriptions.


 

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Will anything replace it? There needs to either be an improved basic tier, or mid-level tier I think. Not sure how this was "less popular that we thought". I think the Evernote bean counters and the users may have differing opinions on popularity of it, vs, driving people to buy the expensive over-blown Premium tier that a lot of people don't need.

Just remember, you're now competing with Office 365's FREE solution. Most offices have MS Office, granting them access to a shared notes system.

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I love this move. I think it’s a great opportunity for the company, as well as providing loyal Evernote users a sense of worth for their hard work and dedication to the brand. 

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15 hours ago, GBITGlenn said:

Just remember, you're now competing with Office 365's FREE solution. Most offices have MS Office, granting them access to a shared notes system.

This is very true. We have 35 EN Business seats. We recently started using MS Teams; it integrates seamlessly with OneNote. I love Evernote, and I will probably always maintain a personal account. But ya'll need to take this seriously. WordPerfect is, in my opinion, a far better word processor than Word, but its market share is nearly non-existent because everybody already has Word. WP and Word are not the same thing, just like EN and ON are different. But to most people, they are the same and it makes no sense to pay twice. You can't afford to lose customers.

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19 hours ago, Shane D. said:

I wanted to provide an update regarding some changes being made to Evernote's subscription plans.

Thank you for keeping us informed.

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18 hours ago, GBITGlenn said:

Not sure how this was "less popular that we thought".

Probably as measured by # of Plus vs # Premium subscriptions...

18 hours ago, GBITGlenn said:

Just remember, you're now competing with Office 365's FREE solution. Most offices have MS Office, granting them access to a shared notes system.

And if Plus isn't popular, then that should make no difference. The Free users will probably never upgrade, while the Plus'ers will continue to keep their Plus subscriptions. The only downside is for Premium subscribers who want to save a little cash and are considering the Plus subscription.

I'm not saying that there's no room for a middle tier; it sounds like the current Plus isn't cutting it, and maybe they're trying to figure out what the  middle tier should be ("This tells us that we need to find a better solution to meet your needs."),

This would be a cue to offer suggestions as to what that might be (or maybe support for retaining the current Plus deal, which you sorta did anyways)...

 

3 hours ago, raoniluna said:

So, what premium options will we have now?

The Premium option: https://evernote.com/get-started

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23 hours ago, Shane D. said:

We believe gathering customer feedback will help determine what those needs are.

Really suggest monitoring the Windows Help forum for the feedback there on the astounding borks in recent releases of the Windows program. That may not affect Plus-or-no-Plus, but it does show what customers need.

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2 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Really suggest monitoring the Windows Help forum for the feedback there on the astounding borks in recent releases of the Windows program. That may not affect Plus-or-no-Plus, but it does show what customers need.

But they do monitor it...

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Thanks for the update. Please let us, ‘long term subscribers’ know what’s in the future when you know it (decide it).

I do smell modified monetisation for a planned future buy-out to avoid being left for dead by the horrible world of Microsoft. Evernote is fantastic and has been emulated by ms... because of how good it is  

i hope you guys are bought out and get a handsome amount if it comes to that. I will close my account if ms ever buys you guys out. 

Please choose this next move carefully. For Your sakes. 

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12 minutes ago, Jeffrey Dohnt said:

I do smell modified monetisation for a planned future buy-out

A money connection seems obvious for any decision making, but how do you connect this to a buy-out, or to any specific company?

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Glad I downgraded to Plus when I did. I understand the fact that they need to need to make money and that Plus might not have been a very popular option - but it was a great one for those of us that do not need the full premium feature set. While searching in PDFs is probably the only feature that I miss at times, I have just been very careful to make all new notes images. I still have a hard time with the cost of premium.

I have been using Evernote since 2010 and really hope that they stick around for quite a bit yet.

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5 minutes ago, buckethead said:

I have been using Evernote since 2010 and really hope that they stick around for quite a bit yet.

Hi.  I don't think there's much risk of the app disappearing - this is just chatter about a possible ownership change.  Your data is still safe anyway - you might just have to consider which of the other worse options you're going to jump to...   ;)

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As an ex Plus Customer, just moved to Premium a month ago or so. And The only feature I was looking for was the space per month. I have to say that the Plus was getting short. And that is that. Today's ecosystem have similar options and some are actually better and practical than Evernote. I've been on Evernote for a long time and to be honest would hate to move away. But many features should be added to payed accounts and I've been waiting for a long time for that and nothing has changed.

To been able to file old Notebooks sorted by personal/business like the Business level should be a Premium feature and not just for business. To cluster them and so on ...many features could be added with almost no impact nor difficulty to implement it.

The sense of "premium" is falling short wirh today's offer out there and that will prove my point next year on the next customer cycle when many Premium accounts like me will drop and revert to free and  slowly leave.

You can migrate all your Evernote stuff to other alternatives...and that is just marking the begging of the end.

And that's a real shame. 

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I wonder if I would be an Evernote user if my only option was premium or basic.  Basic is almost fatally limited as a cloud service (only two devices, no offline) while premium is prohibitively expensive for people who have to control their bills.  I'm ok with paying for the ongoing cloud service, but that's it - I can't afford and don't need anything that premium offers over Plus.  

Plus is the sweet spot and most attractive subscription level to me, so naturally I imagine that most users go for Plus as well.   And that far fewer EN  users go for premium. 

So pushing new users to Premium is an obvious reason to eliminate the Plus option.   I mean, keeping Plus on offer costs nothing- it's not like there's inventory taking up space on the shelf..  Nor is it extra work to get Plus into the subscription system, it's already there.  It's actually cheaper for EN to leave Plus subscriptions on offer.  Period. 

Unless they believe that revenue is being left on the table.  That enough of us would pick Premium if it was our only option.. That's the gamble this marketing moves makes.  Make more money off less clients?  How many less?  How many will be lost due to prohibitive cost versus how much gained in higher margin? 

Dropping Plus  forces all new users to spend significant ongoing $ if they want into the ecosystem,  or just go elsewhere.  But fine, EN already has it's base.  OK some new customers lost, but  by also allowing  existing Plus subscriptions to stay grandfathered in, that keeps the current (and I'd guess substantial) Plus base from fleeing.  A strategy. 

I know  Evernote is directly stating the opposite, so.... maybe I'm off the mark ....or maybe the original post is corporate speak. 

It's naive to discount that possibility. 

It would be interesting to see the true numbers for the three subscription levels.  

 

 

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6 hours ago, SWSL said:

Basic is almost fatally limited as a cloud service (only two devices, no offline)

The Windows/Mac platforms support offline use; maintaining a full copy of the data on the device.
The Basic account device limit is two simultaneous devices, and doesn't count web access.

if there was a "fatally limited" point, it would be the upload limit.  Even then, the Windows/Mac platforms support Local Notebooks.

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

 

The Windows/Mac platforms support offline use; maintaining a full copy of the data on the device.
The Basic account device limit is two simultaneous devices, and doesn't count web access.

if there was a "fatally limited" point, it would be the upload limit.  Even then, the Windows/Mac platforms support Local Notebooks.

 Thanks -great  to know the way the two device limit works!   I misunderstood.   

I ran into the offline notes issue trying to use my android devices "in the field" where there's no data access and it was a critically needed feature for me.

But yes, the upload limit also was significant motivation to upgrade.  Absolutely.  

I'm always trying to point friends to EN because it's so useful to me, I think many more folks could benefit from using it. I'm an advocate.   Now I know that I'm not getting them into something unsustainable - that they won't have to "go big (Premium) or go home.  Free could  work forever for many users - just not for me.  I'm happy in the sweet spot of Plus.

Still,  my speculation about what's  behind the elimination of the Plus option remains valid.  Not complaining, just observing.  As long as I can keep Plus, I'm on board ! 

 

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2 hours ago, SWSL said:

Still,  my speculation about what's  behind the elimination of the Plus option remains valid.

One way to look at it,  but is also a vulnerability;  last time the cost of Premium went up a lot of subscribers went down to Plus because they didn't absolutely need all the Premium features,  but didn't want to go back to the limited scope of Basic.  If there's another unpopular price rise,  there's nowhere for existing Premium subscribers to go but out.  Evernote have said they're still considering options.  Speculation is pointless until they announce their decision.

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Posted (edited)

Yep, exactly.  The move seems most likely to be a way to eliminate competition of Plus with Premium.  But then you add another interesting  direction that competition might come from.  Not just new users but users fleeing a future increase in Premium.   I could not imagine an increase since it seems so costly already, but it's a good preemptive strategy.  

I don't think discussion with speculation is pointless before we know.  Evernote just came out and gave a reason for eliminating Plus.   An important aspect of my comment is that the publicly stated reasons are not necessarily the real ones for business decisions made in private. So we're bringing up more credible reasons for discussion.  EN doesn't have to validate that speculation necessarily for it to be useful input, another data point for decisions under consideration.

Perhaps reasonable but dissenting and/or questioning opinions and discussion actually help management to gauge potential reaction in the larger, less vocal base towards such decisions being contemplated.  Silence while awaiting the fate of our lives' databases from above is less helpful, I think.  Announcing an upcoming move while leaving the details open is a way to gauge reactions.

I comment because I'm invested in this system myself and I want to see it continue functioning at a sustainable subscription rate for all. Not too cheap to be a good business model, but not so expensive it runs off users.   I have no desire to go through the trouble of porting it all over to One note or wherever else.  

Edited by SWSL
clarity
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21 hours ago, SWSL said:

Silence while awaiting the fate of our live's databases from above

I see no reason to over react to the news.5ad4a8b5be6ca_ScreenShot2018-04-15at13_32_00.png.30bd20b4d59948b2448ff0ca3b3ab2c5.png
Existing users are not impacted.  
My Plus account option is safe through 2019.

Our databases continue to be safe.

>>Safe to say that most premium users are seriously committed or wealthy. 

I don't think this is valid (wealthy), certainly not for myself.  It's more that the price point is not a significant factor;
Economics 101 - Price Elasticity of Demand

As to committed, it's the way I'm wired.  I was equally committed to the previous product, and will be for the next product.

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Over the past 35 years, I have become used to moving my data from program to program. Back in the 1980's, I started my data collecting with a DOS-based program called Lotus Agenda. It was a product ahead of its time, but Lotus could not handle the cross-over when Windows came on the scene. I migrated to Lotus Symphony for several years. Then I switched to a 10-year-long love affair with Goldmine. They merged with Frontrange and dropped some huge price bombs which caused my exit. For 3 years, I switched over to Salesforce.com. Back in July 2008, I made the switch to Evernote with a Fujitsu ScanSnap.

As late as 2013, I was still manually pulling stuff from Frontmine Goldmine and pasting it into Evernote. 

Each transition was difficult and I know I lost information each time. But the increased efficiencies and search capabilities made it worth the change. I hope this is my last change, but if necessary, I am prepared to make another swap. And I believe Evernote understands this.
 

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34 minutes ago, jbenson2 said:

I have become used to moving my data from program to program.

My exit from Evernote will be a 45 minute data export; the easiest of all my moves.
It's already running in my weekly full backup.

However, I haven't found a better service to store my data.

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2 minutes ago, jbenson2 said:

Then I switched to a 10-year-long love affair with Goldmine.

Haha. We are in the process of casting off the last vestiges of GoldMine, which was already being roundly mocked (and avoided whenever possible) by most of the non-sales folk 5 years ago when I started where I am now. It's like some Win '98 horror hangover and I won't be sorry to be seeing the last of it.

 

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Sorry, but I don't think, that removing the option to purchase new Plus subscriptions was a good idea!

I discovered EN at the beginning of 2016, when I looked for some kind of a cloud based data storage system for the board of our Munich local group of the public transport workers union, where all board members can easily find necessary basic documents. During my research on youtube I landed on Steve Dotto's Dottotech channel and I was totally amazed by his videos about EN, that I opened a free account for myself. After a short time I upgraded to EN plus, because I wanted the EN company to make some money and I wanted to have bigger monthly data Volume than just the 60 MB. However the most important feature for me is the ability to send emails into the EN account. The last function is absolutely important for me, because I try to go paperless and I have got a Scansnap IX100 scanner, which sends it's scans through the Scansnap Cloud via email into my EN account. The restriction down to two devices per Free account came after I subscribed for EN Plus, but it's another big advantage of upgrading from a free account.

Perhaps I will upgrade to EN Premium one day, but at the moment EN Plus is perfectly tailored to my personal needs. For everybody of my friends, who might copy my private paperless workflow one day, upgrading to EN Plus would have been my ultimate suggestion.

For our local union group I opened a free account last year and in November I started to create notebooks and stored the first documents in there. To publish these notebooks to our board members I created a pdf file with touchable text fields, where the URLs of the notebooks are embedded, so that everybody can open them with ease.

Unfortunately I reached the 60MB level and since then I have been kept busy with other things, so that I've not been able to finish the first stage of the project. To establish this system in the future, I will have this to be approved by our board and I'm not sure that I will get the approval for the Premium fee at the beginning.

So what are my conclusions of that, what I just wrote down to advocate for EN Plus?

-Even if the EN Plus package had the lowest subscription rate of all options, it still generated some revenue.

-There are people like me, for wich EN Plus is the perfect tailored solution.

-If you want to convince people to obtain a paid version of EN, its easier to convince them to chose EN Plus than Premium, because Premium contains functions, which they might not need at the beginning. It's the first entry level step on the ladder so to speak.

I really hope that you think your decision over and that there will be a new option with similar features at a similar price in the future.

From my point of view the good news about that, that EN Plus had such a low subscription rate, is, that there is a need for this option, but it was not really a concurrence for the Premium version.

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6 hours ago, DTLow said:

Safe to say that most premium users are seriously committed or wealthy. 

I don't think this is valid, certainly not for myself.  It's more that the price point is not a significant priority; Economics 101 - Price Elasticity of Demand

I retract that.  It's not helpful.  But I do think it's clear that you yourself are a seriously committed user with so much time invested.   A good thing, just perhaps less representative of the larger base out there.   

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14 hours ago, DTLow said:

My exit from Evernote will be a 45 minute data export; the easiest of all my moves.

I found data export was the least of my problems. The big issue was efficiently putting all that data back to work again.

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14 hours ago, folke1967 said:

Sorry, but I don't think, that removing the option to purchase new Plus subscriptions was a good idea!

I discovered EN at the beginning of 2016, when I looked for some kind of a cloud based data storage system for the board of our Munich local group of the public transport workers union, where all board members can easily find necessary basic documents. During my research on youtube I landed on Steve Dotto's Dottotech channel and I was totally amazed by his videos about EN, that I opened a free account for myself. After a short time I upgraded to EN plus, because I wanted the EN company to make some money and I wanted to have bigger monthly data Volume than just the 60 MB. However the most important feature for me is the ability to send emails into the EN account. The last function is absolutely important for me, because I try to go paperless and I have got a Scansnap IX100 scanner, which sends it's scans through the Scansnap Cloud via email into my EN account. The restriction down to two devices per Free account came after I subscribed for EN Plus, but it's another big advantage of upgrading from a free account.

Perhaps I will upgrade to EN Premium one day, but at the moment EN Plus is perfectly tailored to my personal needs. For everybody of my friends, who might copy my private paperless workflow one day, upgrading to EN Plus would have been my ultimate suggestion.

For our local union group I opened a free account last year and in November I started to create notebooks and stored the first documents in there. To publish these notebooks to our board members I created a pdf file with touchable text fields, where the URLs of the notebooks are embedded, so that everybody can open them with ease.

Unfortunately I reached the 60MB level and since then I have been kept busy with other things, so that I've not been able to finish the first stage of the project. To establish this system in the future, I will have this to be approved by our board and I'm not sure that I will get the approval for the Premium fee at the beginning.

So what are my conclusions of that, what I just wrote down to advocate for EN Plus?

-Even if the EN Plus package had the lowest subscription rate of all options, it still generated some revenue.

-There are people like me, for wich EN Plus is the perfect tailored solution.

-If you want to convince people to obtain a paid version of EN, its easier to convince them to chose EN Plus than Premium, because Premium contains functions, which they might not need at the beginning. It's the first entry level step on the ladder so to speak.

I really hope that you think your decision over and that there will be a new option with similar features at a similar price in the future.

From my point of view the good news about that, that EN Plus had such a low subscription rate, is, that there is a need for this option, but it was not really a concurrence for the Premium version.

I’m just like you. But premium. Paperless is awesome! I have the scan snap printer too!

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On 4/13/2018 at 5:03 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Really suggest monitoring the Windows Help forum for the feedback there on the astounding borks in recent releases of the Windows program. That may not affect Plus-or-no-Plus, but it does show what customers need.

 

On 4/13/2018 at 7:54 PM, jefito said:

But they do monitor it...

Somewhat, for purposes of dealing with bugs that have risen to emergency proportions. (Sudden sci-fi movie giant-bugs flash. :o ) But I'm talking about monitoring the help forum, as well as the feedback forum, to see what customers want, or more specifically, what they hate.

 

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Just two thoughts here, both of which I've expressed elsewhere, and both of which can be disputed, I'm sure.

  1. I continue to be surprised at the number of people (including some of the most helpful contributors to these forums) who are dedicated to using what I understand to be a multi-platform note-taking service for bulk cloud storage of documents, images, etc. I haven't tried to shift a lot of stuff to the cloud myself, so I'm out of the loop on this. But what makes Evernote a better candidate for that sort of thing than Dropbox, etc.?
  2. Evernote Premium costs US$70 per year, less than $6 per month. How many cups of coffee is that? How much would you spend at a café in a month to get free wifi? $70 at once is a fair amount of money for many people. But you put it on a credit card, and you can spread it out over time. It's not up to me to manage anyone else's budget. But for anything approaching professional use, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
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3 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

But what makes Evernote a better candidate for that sort of thing than Dropbox, etc.?

1. Evernote has a container element - the Note

  • This can contain rich text (html), images, pdfs, office/iwork documents, and any other format files
  • Notes can be linked, internally or externally
  • Notes/Nortebooks/Spaces can be shared

2. Tags/Notebooks instead of Folders/Sub-Folders
3. Extensive Search

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2 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

I haven't tried to shift a lot of stuff to the cloud myself, so I'm out of the loop on this. But what makes Evernote a better candidate for that sort of thing than Dropbox, etc.?

In a former life I used to need access to information on lots of different subjects and built up a sizeable library (several hundred folders) of clippings and correspondence about various things.  It kinda got away from me and devolved from a neat reference collection of folders on shelves,  to a lot of folders in an unfindable mess stacked all over the place 'waiting' for filing,  classification etc.  This all started out in the days before I had an internet connection to play with.

Over the course of a couple of years I scanned a roomful of paper into Evernote. 

Dropbox et al. would have taken the files into a very big parent folder,  where the detail of the content would have remained lost - very few agencies offered OCR and searching for more than file names,  and my file names then were just subject titles.  Evernote,  on the other hand,  OCR'd and searched inside PDF files - so if I wanted that report from the Australian Law Commission,  I could search for "Australia" and get useful results.

My library stopped being a huge pile of paper and now lives on my hard drive - though the content has been reviewed and renewed several times since;  I have access to a lot more sources in this connected age...

It's such a wonderful experience to be able to do most research via a keyboard that I took to doing the same sort of thing with any paper that comes through my door.  Bills,  receipts,  user-guides - you name it,  I can (usually) find it in Evernote.

It's saved my bacon several times - a monitor threw a fit a while back,  so I looked into the purchase detail so I could get the same model as a replacement... turned out I had a 3-year guarantee I'd forgotten about,  so I got a new screen for free.  I wanted to buy the correct accessory for my car,  but it was such an old car (long story) that the retailer's newly modernised spares lookup app couldn't identify the part no.  I found the original receipt and got the item I needed.

Paperless doesn't equal paper-free,  but it does mean I have access to everything I know via any electronic device near me,  and I don't have to risk paper-cuts to put information back into the right place on a shelf so I can find it next time.  In that respect Evernote may be a little like Vegas - what happens in Evernote stays in Evernote....:D

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1 hour ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Somewhat, for purposes of dealing with bugs that have risen to emergency proportions. (Sudden sci-fi movie giant-bugs flash. :o ) But I'm talking about monitoring the help forum, as well as the feedback forum, to see what customers want, or more specifically, what they hate.

Historically they've said that all forum posts are read by Evernote staff. I've no cause to disbelieve that. That's not to say that I wouldn't want more feedback and response, but I also understand that that would require a large undertaking (they also have other channels to monitor, Twitter, Hangouts, you name it).

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3 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:
  1. Evernote Premium costs US$70 per year, less than $6 per month. How many cups of coffee is that? How much would you spend at a café in a month to get free wifi? $70 at once is a fair amount of money for many people. But you put it on a credit card, and you can spread it out over time. It's not up to me to manage anyone else's budget. But for anything approaching professional use, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

You are right that the premium subscription is not that much if you take into account only Evernote.  However, I am willing to bet that most folks have a few different monthly services at a premium level and the costs for all of them add up to a bit more than a couple of coffees. It is about prioritizing services and how much you are willing to pay for a service.

Also putting Evernote on a credit card and paying it over time = paying interest charges and it makes it even more expensive.........

If we are forced to migrate away from the Plus option in the future I will be going to the free account - the $70 is more than I am willing to pay.  I still wished that they offered a consumer version only without trying to jam all of the business stuff down our accounts. I understand that BTB is where the $$ is at, but it would be nice to go back to the basic EN that was offered years ago.

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21 minutes ago, buckethead said:

a credit card and paying it over time

Pay your credit card on time, and no problem. If you don't, then don't blame that on Evernote...

21 minutes ago, buckethead said:

I still wished that they offered a consumer version only without trying to jam all of the business stuff down our accounts.

Free, Plus, and Premium are all perfectly suited for personal uses. What would you remove from either Free or Premium that's so offensive to you (i.e., s "business stuff")? In other words, what is "basic EN"?

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3 minutes ago, jefito said:

Pay your credit card on time, and no problem. If you don't, then don't blame that on Evernote...

Free, Plus, and Premium are all perfectly suited for personal uses. What would you remove from either Free or Premium that's so offensive to you (i.e., s "business stuff")? In other words, what is "basic EN"?

The credit comment was directed at previous poster who mentioned paying it over time.......nothing to do with Evernote or blaming Evernote - not sure where you got that from?

And yes all versions are suitable for personal use and I have used all versions personally. Nothing in Evernote is offensive to me (though I some how offended you?) - just think a stripped down version without Work Chat, Business Card Scan, Presentations, Multiple Accounts would be nice. Again all business features removed from an offering. I am thinking about what Premium used to be before the BTB focus started. And again none of these are offensive or in the way of how I currently use EN. 

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39 minutes ago, buckethead said:

You are right that the premium subscription is not that much if you take into account only Evernote.  However, I am willing to bet that most folks have a few different monthly services at a premium level and the costs for all of them add up to a bit more than a couple of coffees. It is about prioritizing services and how much you are willing to pay for a service.

Yes, it's a matter of prioritizing, and of deciding what Evernote is worth among the whole set of things one wishes to use. What I object to is the assertion sometimes made that Evernote Premium is overpriced absolutely. For many people it's not; for others it is. I do regret the loss of the Plus level, though. It does seem to me that it filled a need. Evernote says it is "less popular than we thought it would be," which suggests either that the need is not large, or that they overestimated it. The fact they're framing the move as a quest for "a better solution to meet your needs" may point toward the latter.

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39 minutes ago, buckethead said:

The credit comment was directed at previous poster who mentioned paying it over time.......nothing to do with Evernote or blaming Evernote - not sure where you got that from

You said: "Also putting Evernote on a credit card and paying it over time = paying interest charges and it makes it even more expensive.........". My response was just that the "more expensive" bit is nothing to do with Evernote, as you say (Evernote has no responsibility for people paying their bill over time or not), so shouldn't really be a factor in this discussion.

43 minutes ago, buckethead said:

And yes all versions are suitable for personal use and I have used all versions personally. Nothing in Evernote is offensive to me (though I some how offended you?) - just think a stripped down version without Work Chat, Business Card Scan, Presentations, Multiple Accounts would be nice. Again all business features removed from an offering. I am thinking about what Premium used to be before the BTB focus started. And again none of these are offensive or in the way of how I currently use EN. 

You said "I still wished that they offered a consumer version only without trying to jam all of the business stuff down our accounts," the implication being that there's a bunch of business-only stuff that's forced on unwilling users. I'd agree with your choice of Work Chat and Presentations to some degree, but Business Card scan is perfectly useful for personal use ("hey, I need to archive the business card of that contractor I used last year so I don't forget it") and multiple accounts are useful outside of business as well (curiously, I pay for my personal premium edition, but use a freebie at work, though I share notebooks back and forth to some degree). Part of that may be trying to entice users who aren't suited to the full-on Business Edition but find Evernote useful in the office (I'm one of them). I would never want to be forced into a Business account for my purposes. I'm happy to have some of these features, and just ignore the others, so no harm, no foul. And therein lies the rub: your vision of what constitutes unnecessary features differs from mine, and Evernote's evidently. No offense taken.

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I am more or less retired, and do not use the sharing feature at all (especially since neither my wife nor my daughter use Evernote). But I have multiple devices and travel between two homes, so having unlimited capacity and multiple device access is very valuable.

I really hope EN keeps the unlimited feature and the multiple device feature; I understand others may find sharing extremely valuable, but I do not use it.

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I just logged in today to buy a plus subscription. I honestly think it was overpriced, as the only feature I need over the free version is the ability to use more than 2 devices. Nevertheless, I was willing to bite the bullet and pay up... and now I discover that Plus has been discontinued. I'm sorry, but Premium is *way* outside my price range, and I really don't need all the fancy features. I guess I'll be sticking with the free version for now.

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2 minutes ago, Kramii said:

now I discover that Plus has been discontinued.

If you have Plus, you can stay with it, at least for the time being ("we will remove the option to purchase new Plus subscriptions. For current Plus subscribers, nothing will change."). And you can use more than two devices with the free version, just not more than two devices simultaneously (and the web client doesn't count against the limit).

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I have been a Premium subscriber for years and consider Evernote my most important production tool. My only frustration is that Evernote refuses to listen to us that we need improved printing capabilities. I get so frustrated every time I need to print a note and get 2 inch margins from my Mac. Contrary to some "experts" on the forum, it is important to print sometimes. I will continue my Premium subscription, but it is hard to understand why printing can't be improved as requested by so many users in this forum. 

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3 minutes ago, sdadell said:

My only frustration is ...

I guess it's a good sign that you only have one frustration; there are so many issues.
However, this discussion is about a change to the subscription plans.

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2 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I guess it's a good sign that you only have one frustration; there are so many issues.
However, this discussion is about a change to the subscription plans.

Mr. DTLow, It is a great program and I commented here to provide feedback because as a Premium Member, if EN is going to re-evaluate their plans they should add features such as printing to the Premium plan. We are committed enough that we should have the opportunity to make our desires known.

 

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2 hours ago, sdadell said:

if EN is going to re-evaluate their plans they should add features such as...

Its  not cool tacking on to an ongoing discussion.

You should post in the request forums or add your vote to an existing discussion.

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9 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Its  not cool tacking on to an ongoing discussion.

You should post in the request forums or add your vote to an existing discussion.

For your information, I have posted in forums and voted for the feature. This original post includes the statement "We believe gathering customer feedback will help determine what those needs are." I was simply providing my Premium customer feedback to help identify a need since they asked. Thank you for your constant monitoring and interest in the forum.

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7 minutes ago, sdadell said:

For your information, I have posted in forums and voted for the feature. This original post includes the statement "We believe gathering customer feedback will help determine what those needs are." I was simply providing my Premium customer feedback to help identify a need since they asked. Thank you for your constant monitoring and interest in the forum.

I guess the topical question here would be whether you think that printing should be a premium feature, and not a free feature. My opinion is that  it should be a free feature. As far as I know, there's no difference between free and premium in the Windows client.

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21 minutes ago, jefito said:

I guess the topical question here would be whether you think that printing should be a premium feature, and not a free feature. My opinion is that  it should be a free feature. As far as I know, there's no difference between free and premium in the Windows client.

Yes, it should be a standard feature included in any version that is offered. 

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On 4/12/2018 at 7:26 PM, GBITGlenn said:

Just remember, you're now competing with Office 365's FREE solution. Most offices have MS Office, granting them access to a shared notes system.

 

I started with OneNote in 2008 which at the time didn't sync across computers. I figured out how to utilize Mesh Sync (eventually became OneDrive) to sync my notebooks across PCs but often had issues with corruption of Notebooks. Then I found Evernote a month or so later.  I still use OneNote as it is required for my job, but personally, I rely on Evernote.  There are a lot of ways Evernote could improve to match what OneNote does, but to me, the biggest differentiators which make Evernote stand out is being able to tag notes, the search being FAR SUPERIOR to OneNote and the screen layout which is similar to how I layout Outlook.  I cannot emphasize enough how easy it is to find things in Evernote compared to OneNote.

Microsoft will always dominate the enterprise space because business runs on Windows and Office.  However, there will always be room for niche products like Evernote that provide particular value or features that Microsoft cannot, particularly in small to mid-size business market, as well as some pockets in the enterprise.  As long as Evernote stays a step ahead or has a few must-have features that OneNote doesn't, people will pay for that and they can stay relevant.  If they sit back, relax and don't keep up, they will become the next Novell or Lotus Notes.

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Definitely agree that there needs to be a middle tier. I am one of those who can't afford Premium but I do need the larger monthly upload limit and the multiple devices of the Plus subscription. I'm nervous now that if I'm having a tight month financially the next time my Plus is due to renew, I won't be able to put off renewing till the next payday in case I lose my access to Plus altogether. I hope that the Evernote team continue to offer some kind of middle tier even if the offering is slightly different. 

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A lot of people have mentioned OneNote as a competitor. I love the way notes are organised visually in OneNote, in tabbed sections. But I found it couldn't handle the quantity of notes I had and would fail to sync. (I had about 2000 notes at that point which I honestly don't think is that much). I lost whole sections that way and had to rescan into Evernote. Plus scanning directly into One Note produced a very rough looking image whereas scanning into Evernote produces a nice clear pdf. In my experience Evernote just works whereas OneNote just didn't. Yet Evernote is still vulnerable to One Note because it's free and ubiquitous. Most people who haven't had my negative experience with OneNote would need a pretty compelling reason to pay anything for a similar product so I think any first tier paid product from Evernote needs to be reasonably priced (like Plus).

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On 4/19/2018 at 3:29 PM, Kramii said:

... and now I discover that Plus has been discontinued. I'm sorry, but Premium is *way* outside my price range, and I really don't need all the fancy features. I guess I'll be sticking with the free version for now.

This is ongoing revenue that EN is leaving on the table.   

It's a risky decision to only offer one paid level.  It might increase income or it may result in decreased revenue, driving more people to live with the free version or look elsewhere.   Me, I believe that they are fixing something that was not broken and breaking things as they do it.  But I repeat myself.

Again, just want to see EN do well, make wise decisions for the long run.

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3 hours ago, SWSL said:

This is ongoing revenue that EN is leaving on the table.   

It's a risky decision to only offer one paid level.  It might increase income or it may result in decreased revenue, driving more people to live with the free version or look elsewhere.   Me, I believe that they are fixing something that was not broken and breaking things as they do it.  But I repeat myself.

Agree completely. I would absolutely not be using Evernote if my only option was the premium price. I don't use it enough or have enough extra cash to justify spending that much money on it in addition to paying for Dropbox (which backs up my whole computer so it's non-negotiable), and the free account has too many limitations to really make it work for me. People who are going to use Evernote more casually will be a lot less likely to fork over twice as much money for something that they're going to use intermittently. 

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@Deirdre R, @SWSL - you know as much about this as any of us,  but the original post from @Shane D. does say (effectively) if you have Plus now,  you can renew and keep it going.  I'd suggest you contact Evernote Customer Support.  That should be possible (I haven't tried it lately) via https://www.evernote.com/SupportLogin.action as you're a subscriber,  or https://twitter.com/evernotehelps if you have any problems with that link.  If you receive a Ticket Number from Support,  please come back and post it here for the Evernote staffers to take a look at.

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4 hours ago, SWSL said:

This is ongoing revenue that EN is leaving on the table.

And this compares to the revenue EN loses by would-be premium accounts downgrading to Plus.

imho   Very few Basic account users are motivated to upgrade to a paid account.  I suspect the Plus account had little impact on this.

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46 minutes ago, gazumped said:

...the original post from @Shane D. does say (effectively) if you have Plus now,  you can renew and keep it going...

In my case it's not that simple. I can keep it for now, but I won't be able to renew past 12m. I inferred, incorrectly, from the OP that Plus was to be discontinued, but that until that occurred it would be renewable.

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2 minutes ago, LimaOz said:

I can keep it for now, but I won't be able to renew past 12m

So, i'm counting on no worries for at least 12m

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44 minutes ago, DTLow said:

And this compares to the revenue EN loses by would-be premium accounts downgrading to Plus...

Which, according to the OP, isn't as popular as expected, so maybe there's less risk of that happening.

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18 minutes ago, DTLow said:

And this compares to the revenue EN loses by would-be premium accounts downgrading to Plus.

imho   Very few Basic account users are motivated to upgrade to a paid account.  I suspect the Plus account had little impact on this.

Yes, that's the trade-off to sort out.  

We went to a free event the other day downtown and parking in the garage right at the park was $20.  Everywhere else it was $10, but less convenient.   Those $10 lots were filling fast.  The big $20 garage was nearly empty, 10% full maybe by the end.    That garage still had to pay security guards not to mention the all their other overhead.  Would 100% full at half the price been a better decision in that case - absolutely!   In hindsight.   On another day, with a more popular event, (or wealthier/lazier attendees)  the garage may have filled at $20.     Marketing decisions. 

In my case with EN, I started out at the free level and then concluded that I wanted AND could afford a plus account.  Once a plus user, I went all in with EN.   I now recommend it to others as a key service they should try out.    I definitely would not have made the leap to the premium account price level, so, like, CramII, I would have remained a free user and probably not have integrated EN so thoroughly into my information management approach.  Before that, I was using a simple folder system on my desktop that worked fine and was synced and accessible using free dropbox.    Having a Plus account in my price range available made the difference in my case .  I'm glad I got in before they closed the gate!

Our (Cramll and I as two examples commenting here) situations are different  from forum experts such as you and Gazumped and do offer up examples of casual basic account users who become motivated to go to the next level, if accessible price-wise.  

Time will tell how the numbers of Premium subscribers grow sufficiently to justify this decision.   It will be hard to know precisely but if the ratio of new Premium to free users stays as high as Premium + Plus to free ratio  has been historically, then they made the right move for the bottom line.  

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1 hour ago, gazumped said:

@Deirdre R, @SWSL - you know as much about this as any of us,  but the original post from @Shane D. does say (effectively) if you have Plus now,  you can renew and keep it going.  I'd suggest you contact Evernote Customer Support.  That should be possible (I haven't tried it lately) via https://www.evernote.com/SupportLogin.action as you're a subscriber,  or https://twitter.com/evernotehelps if you have any problems with that link.  If you receive a Ticket Number from Support,  please come back and post it here for the Evernote staffers to take a look at.

Hi @gazumped thanks for the response - I know my Plus subscription will continue to renew, I'm just worried that if I ever let it lapse I won't be able to get it back. Anyway I've literally just renewed so I don't have to worry about it for the next year. 

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7 minutes ago, Deirdre R said:

I'm just worried that if I ever let it lapse I won't be able to get it back

Ah.  Well Evernote have a year to figure out what options they plan to offer,  so I hope you'll have some choices by then!

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8 hours ago, gazumped said:

Ah.  Well Evernote have a year to figure out what options they plan to offer,  so I hope you'll have some choices by then!

What was the problem to figure that out BEFORE they turned off Plus plan as a choice?
I wanted to downgrade from Premium to Plus this summer because I don't need most of the features. I have tried Premium for two years and decided that it is not what I want.
Now I have to pay 70$ for increased space, multiple devices, smart search and search in the images. It is too expensive for that set of features.
Great.

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1 hour ago, Misiam said:

Now I have to pay 70$ for increased space,

In a year's time they may have increased the price for Premium but have one or more lower tiers for less-intensive users,  who knows?  Evernote themselves haven't decided.  In the run-up to Plus being launched for the first time it was clear that users weren't willing to jump from the free option to an expensive 'all-inclusive' version,  so the company opted for Plus as a first try.  Now they say it's not working for them - no-one outside the company knows why - and they will come up with alternatives.  Let's see what they suggest before looking for alternatives...

And in a year's time your situation could be quite different.  You'll still be able to renew Plus if you can,  so maybe the world will carry on as before.  (I'm a cross bridges when you get to them kinda guy - mainly because there are too many bridges directly in front of me to worry about the ones that lie ahead... ;))

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24 minutes ago, gazumped said:

...  Now they say it's not working for them - no-one outside the company knows why - and they will come up with alternatives.  Let's see what they suggest before looking for alternatives...

 

I wish I could pay only for the features I am using, but not for "all inclusive". 

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On 4/12/2018 at 4:04 PM, Shane D. said:

So, why the change? In the three years since it was introduced, Plus has proven to be less popular than we thought it would be. This tells us that we need to find a better solution to meet your needs.

We believe gathering customer feedback will help determine what those needs are. In the meantime, we will hold off on selling new Plus subscriptions.

@Shane D.:  I have to say, reading your announcement strictly at face value and not attempting to read between the lines, I find it hard to reconcile. While ‘Plus’ may have proven to be less popular than you *thought* it would be, there are still some number of people who chose Plus for a reason. You have determined, because it is less popular than you thought it would be, that a better solution is needed to meet customers’ needs and gathering feedback will help determine what those needs are. That sounds fine. By gathering customer feedback, you will be able to also determine if any of your assumptions are incorrect, and customer feedback should always be of value to a company.

However, the part where things fall apart for me is when you say you are discontinuing adding new Plus accounts. You are doing this *before* you gather customer feedback. Since the Plus level hasn’t been as popular as you thought, I don’t understand the risk of continuing to offer it during the time you gather feedback. And by doing so, you would be continuing to give options to new customers. You could include some kind of communication and questionnaire letting new Plus customers know your current thinking and solicit their feedback. After reading almost all of the other members’ replies in this thread, those who currently have Plus chose it for a reason and would not have wanted to only have had Basic and Premium as choices. 

I guess the bottom line is this... It doesn’t seem you would receive that many new Plus customers during the time it takes for you to gather feedback, especially if it isn’t that popular, but by eliminating the option for new users, it seems you are not taking your future customers’ needs into consideration at all. In addition, making a decision before gathering customer feedback is contrary to meeting your customer needs and putting your customers first. And to what real benefit?

Just my few cents...

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I'm on a Plus subscription. If the only choices available to me were Basic (free) and Premium, I would have stayed with Basic and adjusted my workflow accordingly. Even on Plus, I am paying for features I don't use, so jumping up to Premium is not appealing to me.

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On 4/12/2018 at 7:26 PM, GBITGlenn said:

 

Just remember, you're now competing with Office 365's FREE solution. Most offices have MS Office, granting them access to a shared notes system.

  I have Office 365 free through an educational institution and received a ton of extra OneNote space for free upon buying an external hard drive. I've continued with Evernote because it's familiar and I have a lot of notes, but I hear that OneNote keeps improving. 

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15 minutes ago, Etonreve said:

  I have Office 365 free through an educational institution and received a ton of extra OneNote space for free upon buying an external hard drive. I've continued with Evernote because it's familiar and I have a lot of notes, but I hear that OneNote keeps improving. 

I could post a list of the apps I have on my devices.
Some of them replicate some of the Evernote functions

However this is not relevent to the discussion topic: Plus Account tier dropped for new accounts

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2 hours ago, DTLow said:

I could post a list of the apps I have on my devices.
Some of them replicate some of the Evernote functions

However this is not relevent to the discussion topic: Plus Account tier dropped for new accounts

 

2 hours ago, DTLow said:

I could post a list of the apps I have on my devices.
Some of them replicate some of the Evernote functions

However this is not relevent to the discussion topic: Plus Account tier dropped for new accounts

Who made you the Relevance Judge? It's quite pertinent; another member was talking about an alternative to Evernote for people who don't want to pay for a Premium account now that the Plus level is being eliminated.

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On 4/20/2018 at 12:18 PM, sdadell said:

I have been a Premium subscriber for years and consider Evernote my most important production tool. My only frustration is that Evernote refuses to listen to us that we need improved printing capabilities. I get so frustrated every time I need to print a note and get 2 inch margins from my Mac. Contrary to some "experts" on the forum, it is important to print sometimes. I will continue my Premium subscription, but it is hard to understand why printing can't be improved as requested by so many users in this forum. 

I completely agree. Sometimes I can barely read the printouts from my Windows laptop.

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52 minutes ago, Etonreve said:

now that the Plus level is being eliminated.

The Plus account is no longer an option for new accounts
No impact to existing subscriptions.

>>Who made you the Relevance Judge?  re: I could post a list of the apps I have on my devices....However this is not relevent to the discussion topic

Certainly for my own posts, I exercise relevancy judgement.
I encourage other users to do the same; otherwise the discussion drifts into Evernote Alternatives and Editor Printing Deficiencies.

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22 minutes ago, Etonreve said:

Who made you the Relevance Judge? It's quite pertinent; another member was talking about an alternative to Evernote for people who don't want to pay for a Premium account now that the Plus level is being eliminated.

Discussions of topicality are usually themselves on-topic, based on my experience with Internet forums and newsgroups. Sort of goes hand-in-hand with this forum's Code of Conduct rule, which enjoins us to "not interrupt someone else’s thread in an attempt to change the topic or request support for a different issue. If you have a different issue, find the appropriate thread or create a new one for the issue you’re encountering." Sometimes folks need to be reminded to stay on topic (and I include myself), and to continue issues that don't relate to the current one to an appropriate location elsewhere. Note that I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, just trying to point out the ground rules as I understand them ( @ShaneD -- dunno if this is something to clarify in the CoC, BTW). It is true (and well-known) that there are alternatives to Evernote out there; just remember that there's a limit to how detailed discussions on the Evernote forums are allowed to get with respect to using/operating those alternatives -- we were cautioned about this in the very long Subscription Price Increase topic awhile back. Not that that's happened here, in my opinion, and not that I'd be the one to make that call anyways.

Short form: we all can be "relevance judges" (in the sense of posting opinions on topicality), if we choose to be...

 

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On 16/04/2018 at 11:24 AM, Dave-in-Decatur said:
  1. I continue to be surprised at the number of people (including some of the most helpful contributors to these forums) who are dedicated to using what I understand to be a multi-platform note-taking service for bulk cloud storage of documents, images, etc. I haven't tried to shift a lot of stuff to the cloud myself, so I'm out of the loop on this. But what makes Evernote a better candidate for that sort of thing than Dropbox, etc.?
On 16/04/2018 at 11:29 AM, DTLow said:

1. Evernote has a container element - the Note

  • This can contain rich text (html), images, pdfs, office/iwork documents, and any other format files
  • Notes can be linked, internally or externally
  • Notes/Nortebooks/Spaces can be shared

2. Tags/Notebooks instead of Folders/Sub-Folders
3. Extensive Search

 

Folder, searching, file types, and sharing definitely are in windows explorer, dropbox, whatever... but as DTLow highlighted it's the note concept at the core that is the subtle but key difference

I have a tonne of PDFs of scanned pages and saved articles and simply putting them in a folder on my computer or dropbox, even with a creative folder structure, it isn't easy or natural to flip through them.  In evernote I can see the first page of the PDF as I flip through the notes, highlight relevant parts of the PDF, and add a summary or comment to the Evernote - it makes a much better digital binder (and add in the notebooks and tags, a much better filing cabinet).  

Perhaps someone would be fine with dropbox and a good folder structure, but I've never found that style of storage natural.  Not that Evernote doesn't need a few tweaks as well, especially as I'm stuck on 6.7.5 until PDFs are usable again, but it's far better than Dropbox.

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7 hours ago, DebiB said:

@Shane D.:  I have to say, reading your announcement strictly at face value and not attempting to read between the lines, I find it hard to reconcile.

No, it's not reconcilable at face value.  This is what led me to immediately read between the lines and conclude that it's corporate PR  speak for "we think we can make more money by eliminating the Plus option "   "but we don't think it's best to frame it in those terms to our users"   And the "gathering  feedback"  translates to:  they are going to see how the numbers go without Plus and if it doesn't yield more income, then they might reinstate a lower price subscription tier with a few changes so it doesn't look like they just made a mistake and are back-tracking.   That is, IF this move doesn't pan out well.   It'll take some time for them to find out as they watch the subscription numbers in the next few quarters.  If they come back with a new tier, then we might infer that offering a lower subscription rate did produce more overall income than only offering a Premium tier at the current price.  They could decide to lower Premium's price, but that seems far less likely. 

The claim that Plus is not popular could be true or it could be part of the framing.  Plus could just as well be too popular, as some have suggested, and they think that by removing the option many more will be driven to Premium than to free.

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14 hours ago, Misiam said:

I wanted to downgrade from Premium to Plus this summer because I don't need most of the features.

Access  your subscription settings and downgrade to  the Plus Account.  
The changes won't take effect until the end of your current subscription.5adfb72feaef3_ScreenShot2018-04-24at15_58_20.png.f0fc3d37e395eb31cfce160a320d9f4b.png

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Once I found the settings I too made the downgrade to Plus though at one time I really intended to go to Basic.

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9 hours ago, DTLow said:

Access  your subscription settings and downgrade to  the Plus Account.  
The changes won't take effect until the end of your current subscription.5adfb72feaef3_ScreenShot2018-04-24at15_58_20.png.f0fc3d37e395eb31cfce160a320d9f4b.png

Thanks!

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15 hours ago, DTLow said:

The Plus account is no longer an option for new accounts
No impact to existing subscriptions.

>>Who made you the Relevance Judge?  re: I could post a list of the apps I have on my devices....However this is not relevent to the discussion topic

Certainly for my own posts, I exercise relevancy judgement.
I encourage other users to do the same; otherwise the discussion drifts into Evernote Alternatives and Editor Printing Deficiencies.

I think ‘relevance’ is very subjective and while I agree that it is important we all do our best to stay on topic, I’m not so convinced that the initial comment of...

Just remember, you're now competing with Office 365's FREE solution. Most offices have MS Office, granting them access to a shared notes system.”

...and the replies giving examples supporting that statement related to OneNote, including...

”I have Office 365 free through an educational institution and received a ton of extra OneNote space for free upon buying an external hard drive. I've continued with Evernote because it's familiar and I have a lot of notes, but I hear that OneNote keeps improving.”

...are necessarily off-topic or not relevant. I think it could be helpful for Evernote to be reminded that they are competing with an industry giant that is offering one of the main competitors to Evernote for FREE, so in addition to their needing to be compelling reasons/features for new customers to choose Evernote, there also needs to be price points that don’t seem that far from FREE to get some of those compelling reasons/features. 

Just another perspective to consider. 😊

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On 4/12/2018 at 10:43 PM, Antoine Dozier said:

I love this move. I think it’s a great opportunity for the company, as well as providing loyal Evernote users a sense of worth for their hard work and dedication to the brand. 

@Antoine Dozier:  Would you be able to elaborate on how this provides “loyal Evernote users a sense of worth for their hard work and dedication to the brand”?

i read this my first time through and it didn’t make sense to me and I was just starting to scan the replies again, so thought I would ask in case I’m completely missing a perspective to this. 

Thanks!

(p.s.  My apologies if someone else has already asked this question. I wasn’t sure how to tell without looking through all the replies, which I wasn’t prepared to do. If there is a quick way I can tell if someone has already replied and jump to that reply, I’m all ears! I realize this Forum Use question is ‘Off Topic’, but I thought I’d risk it and still ask. 😜 If you have suggestions, you can DM me.)

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35 minutes ago, DebiB said:

Would you be able to elaborate on how this provides ...

1914194_394412245273_1218913_n.jpg.d2a54571dba4726f72dc49d760c31424.jpg.fd36469856809694866bc35d219e9c26.jpgSome of us need a sign   

>>If there is a quick way I can tell if someone has already replied and jump to that 

Its a deficiency in the forum software.  Other forums like Reddit allow for threads within specific posts.

I find the "quote" use helps so at least we can link a comment back to the original post.

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, jefito said:

Discussions of topicality are usually themselves on-topic, based on my experience with Internet forums and newsgroups. Sort of goes hand-in-hand with this forum's Code of Conduct rule, which enjoins us to "not interrupt someone else’s thread in an attempt to change the topic or request support for a different issue. If you have a different issue, find the appropriate thread or create a new one for the issue you’re encountering." Sometimes folks need to be reminded to stay on topic (and I include myself), and to continue issues that don't relate to the current one to an appropriate location elsewhere. Note that I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, just trying to point out the ground rules as I understand them ( @ShaneD -- dunno if this is something to clarify in the CoC, BTW). It is true (and well-known) that there are alternatives to Evernote out there; just remember that there's a limit to how detailed discussions on the Evernote forums are allowed to get with respect to using/operating those alternatives -- we were cautioned about this in the very long Subscription Price Increase topic awhile back. Not that that's happened here, in my opinion, and not that I'd be the one to make that call anyways.

Short form: we all can be "relevance judges" (in the sense of posting opinions on topicality), if we choose to be...

 

 My remark was pertinent and it is your long-winded response that is inappropriate. I may not agree with other member's arguments, but I seldom tell them they don't have the right to speak.  

In the past, I used to use the Ignore or Mute function on users who in my opinion weren't contributing to the discussion. That seems to have disappeared. If I'm mistaken, please tell me where it is.

 

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4 hours ago, DebiB said:

@Antoine Dozier:  Would you be able to elaborate on how this provides “loyal Evernote users a sense of worth for their hard work and dedication to the brand”?

i read this my first time through and it didn’t make sense to me and I was just starting to scan the replies again, so thought I would ask in case I’m completely missing a perspective to this. 

Thanks!

(p.s.  My apologies if someone else has already asked this question. I wasn’t sure how to tell without looking through all the replies, which I wasn’t prepared to do. If there is a quick way I can tell if someone has already replied and jump to that reply, I’m all ears! I realize this Forum Use question is ‘Off Topic’, but I thought I’d risk it and still ask. 😜 If you have suggestions, you can DM me.)

I've never known how to directly reply to a previous response in this forum without using the quote function. I, too, did not understand the person you quoted. What does ending the Plus level for future customers have to do with us?  A reward for our loyalty? What?

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3 hours ago, DebiB said:

@Antoine Dozier:  Would you be able to elaborate on how this provides “loyal Evernote users a sense of worth for their hard work and dedication to the brand”?

i read this my first time through and it didn’t make sense to me

Reading this one, I immediately thought "shill!"     I checked the user profile and they had just signed up right before posting this one post.  Draw your own conclusions, but as reviews go, this would have been flagged for fake by any algorithm.  

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4 hours ago, DebiB said:

I think ‘relevance’ is very subjective and while I agree that it is important we all do our best to stay on topic, I’m not so convinced that the initial comment of...

Just remember, you're now competing with Office 365's FREE solution. Most offices have MS Office, granting them access to a shared notes system.”

...and the replies giving examples supporting that statement related to OneNote, including...

”I have Office 365 free through an educational institution and received a ton of extra OneNote space for free upon buying an external hard drive. I've continued with Evernote because it's familiar and I have a lot of notes, but I hear that OneNote keeps improving.”

...are necessarily off-topic or not relevant. I think it could be helpful for Evernote to be reminded that they are competing with an industry giant that is offering one of the main competitors to Evernote for FREE, so in addition to their needing to be compelling reasons/features for new customers to choose Evernote, there also needs to be price points that don’t seem that far from FREE to get some of those compelling reasons/features. 

Just another perspective to consider. 😊

The assessment of relevance can be subjective, but this one isn't even close.   In a discussion of the elimination of a more affordable price plan, how is the existence of free alternatives offered by Evernote's competitors not relevant? And as you noted, I was reinforcing a point made by another Evernote user earlier in the thread. 

I'm not writing for the tiny contingent of people here who think Evernote can do no wrong, but for other customers and for Evernote itself. A company that ignores feedback from its customers is crazy. I don't think that Evernote really cares -- there have been so many instances proving that -- but hope springs eternal. (Or should I be invoking the joke about the "definition of insanity being a repetition of the same action while expecting a different result?")

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6 minutes ago, SWSL said:

Reading this one, I immediately thought "shill!"     I checked the user profile and they had just signed up right before posting this one post.  Draw your own conclusions, but as reviews go, this would have been flagged for fake by any algorithm.  

Sometimes this forum does have an Orwellian feel or as if one is being gaslighted. Up is down. Black is white. Poor customer service is great.

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1 hour ago, Etonreve said:

 My remark was pertinent and it is your long-winded response that is inappropriate. I may not agree with other member's arguments, but I seldom tell them they don't have the right to speak.  

Um, having noted that it's OK to discuss topicality here, then why is my comment about topicality in the forums inappropriate? A question of relevance was raised; you asked a question (of DTLow) about "Who made you the Relevance Judge". My answer is that we all are.

BTW, if you'd bothered to read it, you'd have seen that I never actually said  or implied that anyone's remark here, including yours, were un-pertinent, inappropriate, or irrelevant, nor did I tell anyone that they don't have the right to speak here: "Note that I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, just trying to point out the ground rules as I understand them"  The caution is that we should try to keep as much as possible to the original topic, and open a new topic if required.

1 hour ago, Etonreve said:

In the past, I used to use the Ignore or Mute function on users who in my opinion weren't contributing to the discussion. That seems to have disappeared. If I'm mistaken, please tell me where it is.

Not seeing it either. I've used it in the past, though I stopped using it awhile back.

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Er,  how about we back off a little on our new friend Antoine,  who -if he is a real person- probably feels like he stepped into a bar and is now facing an angry crowd of locals ominously saying "what did you mean by that?".  I reported his post as a probable bot,  as I have several other recent single-post users who didn't make any sense with their one short comment.  It didn't seem to need any more attention than that.  (And if it is a bot,  the author is probably really pleased by the attention it got!)

With all respect to all contributors here,  it does seem like this discussion lost the plot - I'd assume that most posts would be one or more of:

  1. I'm a Plus how does this affect me?
  2. I wanted Plus,  can I still get it?
  3. What happens if I go up from Plus to Premium and don't like it?  Can I switch back?
  4. This is Evernote's great opportunity to <insert new package suggestion here>
  5. This is Evernote's latest,  greatest mistake since <insert socks reference here>

- But since Evernote haven't actually said what they plan to do yet,  most speculation is pointless.  Their game,  their ball - all we can do is walk away if the rules don't suit.  :mellow:

 

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8 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Their game,  their ball - all we can do is walk away if the rules don't suit.  :mellow:

Respectfully disagree. 

If anyone at EN reads this discussion, then they are getting input.  There are valid points to be made about announced marketing moves, especially ones declared to be in flux, and especially when they declare:

Quote

We believe gathering customer feedback will help determine what those needs are.

And with our feedback, as certain considerations are repeated or reinforced by various then they will naturally have more weight and value than than the passive silent stance you suggest we users should assume.  

OK, you contend that we users have no place in the decision process.   Is this because user/public reactions have  NEVER had any effect on corporate decisions?    Or that EN in particular has a history of fully ignoring user feedback more than most and that will never change? 

Better to offer dialogue and input and if they weigh little or not at all in decisions than so be it.  They might serve in the process, and at least we spoke up.  Again, accessibility to EN as a service and their long-term viability as a business are important to many of us.

If you truly feel that all comment on this key aspect of Evernote as a service is completely pointless, then...well, silence is an option we each have open to us without the need to belittle nor silence others.


In that vein, I don't think that reducing all discussion here to common categories of (the all too typical- agreed!)  poor reading comprehension questions is accurate nor terribly generous to those of us who might have something to say.

cheers

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5 minutes ago, SWSL said:

Respectfully disagree. 

Apologies.  I agree you're right to disagree.  I should have caveated my comment with something extra about any and all product or pricing suggestions being relevant as feedback to Evernote.  They may - or may not - act on them,  but users have to get their points across in order for them to be considered.

8 minutes ago, SWSL said:

silence is an option we each have open to us without the need to belittle nor silence others.

Also agreed - no silencing or belittling intended.  My main reason for posting was to (hopefully) take some pressure off a new forum member (if he exists)...  the general tone of the post was whimsical,  since that's my natural style.

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10 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Apologies. 

Thanks. I was hoping not to come off contrary or irritating -  as your help/guidance here on the forums is golden !  

And I do hope that if Antone exists, they are not so offended that they cannot come back and clarify.   Occasionally somebody is misread for a shill, bot or advertiser on a forum or comment thread and then returns to show otherwise.  I don't see any personal attacks that would discourage that.  

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"We believe gathering customer feedback will help determine what those needs are."

I have posted previously, but want to ask a serious question and provide feedback as requested without being lectured by a certain SuperGuru who always responds about getting off topic or drifting or why would anyone need that feature. I would appreciate an official response from an Evernote Employee instead of speculation.

First, I love Evernote and have created thousands of notes since 2009. My Premium Subscription has increased from $45 to $69.99 and we don't know exactly what to expect in the future. If I am interpreting this announcement correctly, I can downgrade to Plus for $34.99/year at this time and maintain Plus indefinitely unless EN comes up with another subscription offering? My Premium subscription will remain in effect until the next billing in February?

I don't see enough advantage to paying twice as much for Premium, but I hadn't questioned it until this announcement. One of the Premium features is "Enhanced Customer Support" so can someone please explain what that means? As far as needs, the only feature I want added, along with many other users, is improved printing. I don't understand why it can't be added in spite of being told printing is not important or being ignored. That should be a standard feature, but I would be more willing to pay the Premium price if it was fixed.

Thanks for a great program and I look forward to it's continued success and evolution!

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12 minutes ago, sdadell said:

One of the Premium features is "Enhanced Customer Support" so can someone please explain what that means?

Pending a response from an Evernote employee

  • All accounts can contact Evernote Support at Twitter @evernotehelps
  • Paid Accounts can use the support page Contact Evernote Support to submit a ticket or chat

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34 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Pending a response from an Evernote employee

  • All accounts can contact Evernote Support at Twitter @evernotehelps
  • Paid Accounts can use the support page Contact Evernote Support to submit a ticket or chat

Thank you. I was aware of that option, but sometimes it would be helpful to talk to a person since it is hard to explain clearly by typing. I completed a chat to confirm that I can downgrade to PLUS and maintain my PREMIUM subscription until the FEB 2019 renewal. Hopefully, by then they will have the plans figured out and implemented customer feedback.

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2 hours ago, sdadell said:

I completed a chat to confirm that I can downgrade to PLUS and maintain my PREMIUM subscription until the FEB 2019 renewal.

Good to know that the downgrade option is still there for Premium users - it wasn't clear from the original post.

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I've been meaning to post for a while, in the hope the Evernote team really mean it, when they say they're looking for feedback/input (they've got some filtering to do, looking at all that ^^!! #offtopic!):

When I originally subscribed there was no Plus option only the free or Premium (for me to realistically choose from). I largely went Premium to get rid of the advertising and as a secondary, less important feature, the web access and increased upload was nice. Since that time I've found the tagging and searching features useful; I don't use reminders or annotation (I can do that in Preview/Acrobat) and the web clipper is good.

I had it in my diary to downgrade to Plus before my next renewal, in July, as the increase in annual cost for Premium has been borderline for me – as a soul trader/individual – for a couple of years now; so obviously gutted this feature is going (though reading a couple of posts above make me think I might still be able to, being an 'old' user).

The only features of premium I, personally, really feel I need/benefit from are:

  • Advanced search (PDFs, Word & text in images)
  • Being able to sync across devices (though at the moment I only do that across two, it used to be three)
  • Emailing-in notes
  • Being able to upload more than 60MB, but, I only upload 100s of MB not GBs
  • Offline access on my phone

Overall it's the ability to have add-free, synced note taking, with keywords/tags in seperate folder/projects, on or offline.

I've tried One Note and at the mo, I'm not tempted. It seems sloooow :-/

Hope that's useful feedback.

 

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On 4/25/2018 at 6:40 AM, DTLow said:

>>If there is a quick way I can tell if someone has already replied and jump to that 

Its a deficiency in the forum software.  Other forums like Reddit allow for threads within specific posts.

I find the "quote" use helps so at least we can link a comment back to the original post

Thanks, @DTLow, I’m glad to know it wasn’t just me, but is a deficiency in the Forum app. I agree, I do like the ‘Quote’ feature! I have actually struggled with several ‘How Tos’ related to the Forum app (you may remember me asking you about a ‘User Guide’ before) and I just asked Evernote Support if there is a ‘User Guide’ available and received the official word that there is not, which surprises me. But, anyway, I digress! Thanks for the help, tho!

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I just finished watching Keep Productive’s (by Francesco D’Alessio) video on ‘Best 10 Note-Taking Apps 2018that was published today. Evernote was first (1st) on the list and Francesco referenced the three (3) options: Free, Plus, and Premium. Viewers of the video will be surprised to learn that ‘Plus’ is no longer available to them.

@Shane D.  If Evernote is still standing firm on their decision to remove the Plus option for new customers, you might want to let Francesco know.

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@Shane D.:  We don’t know your plans for officially soliciting ‘Customer Feedback’ regarding needs and I’m sure you will be looking for ‘feature/function-type‘ needs, but I thought I’d still mention something now for consideration, as it has been referenced in this thread, and I have had discussions about it outside of this Forum, as well as experienced other apps that do it...

Since your user base is extremely broad, it will likely be difficult to determine a set of features/functions for a middle tier (assuming that is still the approach), so how about some form of an Á la Carte offering? I have personally observed a couple forms of this:

1) Each (significant) additional feature has a monthly/annual fee over the base app (whatever is determined to be included in the base), which is FREE.

2) A subscription option which provides for X many add-on features/functions. For example, the subscription options could be: 

Basic = Free

Plus = Basic plus 4 add-ons  (4 is the X that would need to be determined)  

Premium = Everything

There could also be an additional (or more) middle-tier, such as:

Plus Extra = Basic plus 8 add-ons  (8 is another X to be determined; for example, maybe the first one is 2 and this one is 4)

Granted, this may have an end result of a number of Premium users who move down to one of the middle tiers, which may not be what you want from a business financials perspective. Although, it may also result in a number of Basic users moving up to a middle tier, as well, and many more satisfied customers, so could be a win/win!  :)

 

Anyway, just a thought that came to mind, so figured I’d pass it on while I was thinking about it!

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10 hours ago, DEPhoto said:

I've been meaning to post for a while, in the hope the Evernote team really mean it, when they say they're looking for feedback/input (they've got some filtering to do, looking at all that ^^!! #offtopic!):

When I originally subscribed there was no Plus option only the free or Premium (for me to realistically choose from). I largely went Premium to get rid of the advertising and as a secondary, less important feature, the web access and increased upload was nice. Since that time I've found the tagging and searching features useful; I don't use reminders or annotation (I can do that in Preview/Acrobat) and the web clipper is good.

I had it in my diary to downgrade to Plus before my next renewal, in July, as the increase in annual cost for Premium has been borderline for me – as a soul trader/individual – for a couple of years now; so obviously gutted this feature is going (though reading a couple of posts above make me think I might still be able to, being an 'old' user).

The only features of premium I, personally, really feel I need/benefit from are:

  • Advanced search (PDFs, Word & text in images)
  • Being able to sync across devices (though at the moment I only do that across two, it used to be three)
  • Emailing-in notes
  • Being able to upload more than 60MB, but, I only upload 100s of MB not GBs
  • Offline access on my phone

Overall it's the ability to have add-free, synced note taking, with keywords/tags in seperate folder/projects, on or offline.

I've tried One Note and at the mo, I'm not tempted. It seems sloooow :-/

Hope that's useful feedback.

 

I started with Basic, upgraded to Premium, but probably have had a Plus subscription at some point.

Here's my feedback.

I care most about:

  • The Web Clipper.
  • Upload capacity.  I save a large amount of material. It's mainly images that take up the most space in my account.
  • Notebooks. The notebook is the foundation of my organization system. I do make tags, but almost never use them to search and there are many times when I can't type a tag. I either don't have the time or the interface doesn't offer the option at the time of saving. I am glad that Evernote finally made it possible to create notebooks on the fly while clipping. But now I'm out of notebooks.
  • Advanced search.
  • Email-to-Evernote.

Evernote's graphic design is pleasing. It is clean and attractive.

Features that aren't important to me or areas for improvement include:

  • I use the Reminder function, but it's not essential.
  • I don't care about sharing notes, but there should be an easy way to tell which notes were shared and with whom.
  • Elaborate formatting of notes is not important to me, if needed, I  would use a program designed for complex formatting.
  • I don't think it's easy or convenient to stack notebooks.
  • A slide system is not necessary.
  • Using the Evernote camera function to create a note is awkward.
  • Evernote works very slowly on my Desktop, to the point sometimes of being unusable. I usually use the web or Android version.
  • I very much wish the print feature were better.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Etonreve said:

I very much wish the print feature were better.

Another vote for improved printing. PLEASE!

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