Any Evernote clones? Cheaper ones and simple

[abdu 46]

First of all, I am a believer of software needing revenue. However I am cheap and would use free resouces if they are available. So before I pay for Evenote, I wanted to check out free or less expensive alternatives. I looked at a couple alternatives mentioned in the forums.
Obsidian: I didn't find a way to import my Evernote notebooks. I created a note and didn't see a text formatting toolbar. I right clicked and didn't see options to format the text. I was turned off and already do not like it.
Nimbus: After anwering a bunch of questions, it showed me pricing plans. The free one wasn't there even though it was in the pricing page. Looks like it's web based only. I didn't like it.

My use case of Evernote is just having a bunch of notebooks with notes and some of the notes having images. Syncing between two desktop Windows machines. I use search. No mobile devices. I am not interested in tags, pdfs, OCR, scanning or any advanced feature.
I am not liking the price of $130/year for the way I use Evernote. I believe there should be a less expensive plan for light users. The free plan is unusable for me.

Are there any Evernote clones or similar? I just want a Windows desktop app on two machines. Easy to use. It must be able to import Evernote notebooks and notes or there's a third party converter between Evernote and the app. Notes' text can be formwatted and images can be pasted into them.
I might check out OneNote. I don't have an Office 365 subscription.
If I find nothing, I will pay for Evernote.


 

[Boot17 1,455]

57 minutes ago, abdu said:

Obsidian: I didn't find a way to import my Evernote notebooks. I created a note and didn't see a text formatting toolbar. I right clicked and didn't see options to format the text. I was turned off and already do not like it.

There is a native Evernote ENEX importer that was recently added. There is a plugin that will give you a text formatting toolbar.

It's a real change to go from a rich Evernote note editor to a markdown editor. Obsidian is getting a little better with their new table editor (not quite released yet), but I think it's still a pretty far cry from Evernote's rich note taking experience.

[efx00 13]

I took the tour of all the free apps out there. You could try Logseq. I ended up back at Evernote after years away, there simply isn’t anything else like it. Joplin is another one. Noteplan, simplenote, and at least a dozen others - craft, notion, etc. Good luck.

[Blizzard Joe 14]

Upnote is decent note app that runs on Windows.  Their documentation mentions an import from Evernote, but I have never used it so can't speak to how good that process is.

[s2sailor 2,206]

As you test drive various Evernote options and compare features and functions also be mindful of security and how they protect your data.

[agsteele 2,951]

Also be sure to explore what options there are to export your data from the new service you choose.

[Reuven 30]

1 hour ago, Blizzard Joe said:

Upnote is decent note app that runs on Windows.  Their documentation mentions an import from Evernote, but I have never used it so can't speak to how good that process is.

I signed up for Upnote and was able to import my Evernote notes and folders easily. It works on the web, Android, and probably iPhone. It's inexpensive and does a lot of things, including web clipping. However, I still use Evernote and pay the crazy price...

[s2sailor 2,206]

42 minutes ago, Reuven said:

I signed up for Upnote and was able to import my Evernote notes and folders easily. It works on the web, Android, and probably iPhone. It's inexpensive and does a lot of things, including web clipping. However, I still use Evernote and pay the crazy price...

Out of curiosity ... why?  It may be helpful to others to know why.

[ferol 436]

I went through a quantum of systems, and the only one I liked as an alternative was Notesnook..  But I'm sticking with Evernote.

[ferol 436]

18 hours ago, abdu said:

First of all, I am a believer of software needing revenue. However I am cheap and would use free resouces if they are available. So before I pay for Evenote, I wanted to check out free or less expensive alternatives. I looked at a couple alternatives mentioned in the forums.
Obsidian: I didn't find a way to import my Evernote notebooks. I created a note and didn't see a text formatting toolbar. I right clicked and didn't see options to format the text. I was turned off and already do not like it.
Nimbus: After anwering a bunch of questions, it showed me pricing plans. The free one wasn't there even though it was in the pricing page. Looks like it's web based only. I didn't like it.

My use case of Evernote is just having a bunch of notebooks with notes and some of the notes having images. Syncing between two desktop Windows machines. I use search. No mobile devices. I am not interested in tags, pdfs, OCR, scanning or any advanced feature.
I am not liking the price of $130/year for the way I use Evernote. I believe there should be a less expensive plan for light users. The free plan is unusable for me.

Are there any Evernote clones or similar? I just want a Windows desktop app on two machines. Easy to use. It must be able to import Evernote notebooks and notes or there's a third party converter between Evernote and the app. Notes' text can be formwatted and images can be pasted into them.
I might check out OneNote. I don't have an Office 365 subscription.
If I find nothing, I will pay for Evernote.


 

look on this my post:

 

https://discussion.evernote.com/forums/topic/148513-what-do-you-think-is-the-most-important-thing-about-evernote-compared-to-its-competitors/

[abdu 46]

1 hour ago, ferol said:

I went through a quantum of systems, and the only one I liked as an alternative was Notesnook..  But I'm sticking with Evernote.

I was trying it now and I think I like it. Best one so far. Easy to use and does what I want. I am able to import the .enex files. Although the process could have been simpler. 
You have to use their website to import the .enex file and convert it into their .zip file which is imported in the app. Not sure why they didn't make it a simple oneclick import in the app. Not an issue since I can import all the .enex files in one swoop and it created all the notebooks with the proper names. Thumbs up.

I haven't installed it on another computer yet and test the syncing.

[abdu 46]

8 hours ago, s2sailor said:

As you test drive various Evernote options and compare features and functions also be mindful of security and how they protect your data.

And how do you verify and check for how they protect your data? They can say anything on their web site. It doesn't mean they actually do what they say.

[PinkElephant 8,120]

When they say something on their website, it’s a starting point.

You can check in the AppStore as well - devs need to declare their privacy details there. 

 

[abdu 46]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

When they say something on their website, it’s a starting point.

You can check in the AppStore as well - devs need to declare their privacy details there. 

 

They can say whatever they like on their website.
I am not using notes mobile apps. Mobile devs can't publish apps to app stores without posting privacy pages anyways. It's already a requiement from the beginning. It's not as if some do and don't and users pick apps that do. 

[s2sailor 2,206]

3 hours ago, abdu said:

And how do you verify and check for how they protect your data? They can say anything on their web site. It doesn't mean they actually do what they say.

How do you verify and check anything on the internet?  Research it as best as you can.  The point of my post was to make sure to include data security in your evaluation. Basically read up on what they post about it.  Could it be lies?  Possible, but I doubt it.

[ferol 436]

8 hours ago, abdu said:

Teraz som to skúšal a myslím, že sa mi to páči. Zatiaľ najlepší. Jednoduché použitie a robí to, čo chcem. Dokážem importovať súbory .enex. Aj keď proces mohol byť jednoduchší. 
Na import súboru .enex a jeho konverziu na ich súbor .zip, ktorý sa importuje do aplikácie, musíte použiť ich webovú stránku. Nie ste si istí, prečo to neurobili jednoduchým importom jedným kliknutím do aplikácie. Nie je to problém, pretože môžem importovať všetky súbory .enex naraz a vytvorilo to všetky zápisníky so správnymi názvami. Palec *****.

Zatiaľ som to neinštaloval na iný počítač a testujem synchronizáciu.

I don't know why they did it that way. Maybe the import is more reliable when they upload it directly to their servers than when it is done locally on the user's computer... I don't care. It works.

I've tried it, but it's not perfect that import especially with more complicated formatting. The text itself transfers fine. Just not everything was correct for example BOLD etc. They have a very active Discord, the software is in strong development.

[Jon/t 1,293]

7 hours ago, abdu said:

They can say whatever they like on their website.

Companies can't say what they want and not do it. Pretty much all countries have laws to prevent this.

In the UK we have the trade descriptions act and fraud acts.

 

[abdu 46]

11 hours ago, ferol said:

I don't know why they did it that way. Maybe the import is more reliable when they upload it directly to their servers than when it is done locally on the user's computer... I don't care. It works.

I've tried it, but it's not perfect that import especially with more complicated formatting. The text itself transfers fine. Just not everything was correct for example BOLD etc. They have a very active Discord, the software is in strong development.

They are supporting imports from many software. So maybe they are implementing frequent changes. Updating a single import location, their servers, is a lot easier and faster than upgrading all the client software for all their users just for import changes. Plus it keeps the client app smaller in size.

[Wanderling Reborn 185]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:18 PM, abdu said:

My use case of Evernote is just having a bunch of notebooks with notes and some of the notes having images. Syncing between two desktop Windows machines. I use search. No mobile devices. I am not interested in tags, pdfs, OCR, scanning or any advanced feature.
I am not liking the price of $130/year for the way I use Evernote. I believe there should be a less expensive plan for light users. The free plan is unusable for me.
 

With these requirements, Joplin seems like a perfect candidate. I don't use it for a number of reasons that you're not interested in.

[abdu 46]

10 minutes ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

With these requirements, Joplin seems like a perfect candidate. I don't use it for a number of reasons that you're not interested in.

My first step with Joblin is ti import my enex files. When I found out that I had to do it one file at a time, that turned me off right there. 

[Wanderling Reborn 185]

20 minutes ago, abdu said:

My first step with Joblin is ti import my enex files. When I found out that I had to do it one file at a time, that turned me off right there. 

At least, you only do it once...

[abdu 46]

21 minutes ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

At least, you only do it once...

The other big issue is that in the dark mode, which is important for me, I can't read the text because the text stays in black. There's hardy any contrast between the text and the background color. I am also skeptical about free software that depends on donations.
I am making these points for the benefit of others who might want to check Joplin out.

[Wanderling Reborn 185]

59 minutes ago, abdu said:

The other big issue is that in the dark mode, which is important for me, I can't read the text because the text stays in black. There's hardy any contrast between the text and the background color. I am also skeptical about free software that depends on donations.
I am making these points for the benefit of others who might want to check Joplin out.

Hmm, that’s strange. I have used several different dark themes with Joplin and they all worked fine. Perhaps something got screwed up on the import ?

As far as project longevity, I am not concerned with that at all. They are not dependent on donations, it’s a community driven volunteer effort, and the source code is openly available so anyone can just pick up the development or just use it as is even if the main contributors stop working on it.
I’d even say that it’s likely safer than a commercial startup project, since it’s under no pressure to monetize. Unlike say Notion, or Evernote, or the long defunct Springpad. A commercial project will inevitably either raise prices, or close down, because the investors won’t support it for ever without getting a return on their investment. A community project will continue as long as there’s enough interest. 

And they fixed the main data portability problem I had with Joplin - it is now preserving the original attachment file names on export. 

My biggest issues with it are the lack of functionality in their iPhone mobile app, the lack of OCR, the lack of mobile web clipper, and that Spotlight won’t search in Joplin. This makes it a poor choice for quickly entering and accessing notes on the move. If I mainly worked on the desktop, Joplin would have been a fine option.

[Mishkafofer 26]

I suggest One Note. If you are paying for Office 365, you already have that. It's a bit different to all other systems but it has some pluses.

I use it at work and now believe that Microsoft has done many right things with that tool but it's still second fiddle to Excel and Word. Now with the upcoming CoPilot, they're going to make some noise.

Also, Microsoft sells that tool to corporate. Microsoft is not killing that kind of tool such as Google. So I presume we are going to see One Note for 10-15 years.

[shoaib_shaikh 1]

I have thousands of notes in Evernote - Software Engineer by profession who loves to write and maintain notes.
Honestly, not grandfathering your old users is not a great idea.
I moved to UpNote with my big pool of notes - I am happy so far with the decision.
If I change my mind I will update here.

[abdu 46]

On 3/22/2024 at 8:38 PM, shoaib_shaikh said:

I have thousands of notes in Evernote - Software Engineer by profession who loves to write and maintain notes.
Honestly, not grandfathering your old users is not a great idea.
I moved to UpNote with my big pool of notes - I am happy so far with the decision.
If I change my mind I will update here.

Windows upgrade is not yet available for UpNote and the free option supports 50 notes only.
Totally useless for me now.

[LoriMachelle 4]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:22 AM, Blizzard Joe said:

Upnote is decent note app that runs on Windows.  Their documentation mentions an import from Evernote, but I have never used it so can't speak to how good that process is.

Evernote user since 2012. Use it for work and home for so many things. The new EN app on my iPad, iPhone and Windows are clunky and slow. So, I just switched to UpNote. Have imported 8,000+ notes. UpNote is working great! The interface is clean and I am SO GLAD I made the switch. Using it on Windows and my iPhone. 

[abdu 46]

17 minutes ago, LoriMachelle said:

Evernote user since 2012. Use it for work and home for so many things. The new EN app on my iPad, iPhone and Windows are clunky and slow. So, I just switched to UpNote. Have imported 8,000+ notes. UpNote is working great! The interface is clean and I am SO GLAD I made the switch. Using it on Windows and my iPhone. 

Does UpNote exist for Windows? The website says it doesn't yet. Not one that supports the paid version to support more than 50 notes.

[gazumped 11,669]

1 minute ago, abdu said:

Does UpNote exist for Windows?

https://getupnote.com/ Yes

[LoriMachelle 4]

22 minutes ago, abdu said:

Does UpNote exist for Windows? The website says it doesn't yet. Not one that supports the paid version to support more than 50 notes.

Yes, it does support Windows, and yes, you have to pay if you want more than 50 notes. At $.99/month, it was worth it to me. I have thousands of notes. You can also get a lifetime access for something like $30. That is cheaper than EN!

[abdu 46]

9 minutes ago, LoriMachelle said:

Yes, it does support Windows, and yes, you have to pay if you want more than 50 notes. At $.99/month, it was worth it to me. I have thousands of notes. You can also get a lifetime access for something like $30. That is cheaper than EN!

This is what I see. Maybe it's wrong.

[LoriMachelle 4]

1 hour ago, abdu said:

This is what I see. Maybe it's wrong.

All I can say is I’m using it on Windows. So far I have 2,000 notes imported from Evernote.
Perhaps what they mean is, you cannot pay for the premium service from your windows app. You have to pay for the premium through your phone. Also, there is no web-based access— you cannot log into your account through an Internet browser and see all your notes. You must use one of the apps.  

[mackid1993 730]

Just a fun fact, you get what you pay for. UpNote is based in Vietnam (not a privacy friendly country) and doesn't even support 2FA without using a 3rd party authentication provider such as Google which also isn't privacy friendly.

I'd rather sick with Evernote where they make this very clear: https://evernote.com/privacy/3-laws-of-data-protection

[PinkElephant 8,120]

This - plus being now owned by an Italian company, EN operates under GDRP (European Data Protection Legislation).

For me this is important, because it adds a legal dimension to the company policy.

[Feitz 170]

Try Keep it or EagleFiler if you're on a mac.

EagleFiler is rock solid amd Keep It as close to Legacy as it gets but both wirh added benefits.

[LoriMachelle 4]

17 hours ago, mackid1993 said:

Just a fun fact, you get what you pay for. UpNote is based in Vietnam (not a privacy friendly country) and doesn't even support 2FA without using a 3rd party authentication provider such as Google which also isn't privacy friendly.

I'd rather sick with Evernote where they make this very clear: https://evernote.com/privacy/3-laws-of-data-protection

I did some research on this. It might not be as clear as everyone seems to state here. Evernote''s site says, "In late 2016, we began migrating the Evernote service to the Google Cloud Platform (“GCP”). Customer data that we store in GCP will be protected using Google’s built-in encryption-at-rest features. More technically, we use Google's server-side encryption feature with Google-managed encryption keys..."  https://evernote.com/security

UpNote's says, "UpNote stores data on the Firebase server (which is a service provided by Google). The Firebase platform is certified to major privacy and security standards and fully supports the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and the California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA). Firebase encrypts your data in transit using HTTPS and encrypts your data at rest....Does UpNote support multi-factor authentication (MFA)? Yes, you can use the "Sign in with Google" or "Sign in with Apple" method when creating or signing in to your UpNote account. These methods support MFA by default."   https://getupnote.com/support.html

PC Mag article in Dec 2023, "The UpNote team is based in Vietnam, and says that all data is stored on a Firebase server in the US. Google provides Firebase service, which encrypts data in transit using HTTPS and encrypts data at rest." https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/upnote

I feel fine using UpNote for non-password information. I have loved the interface. I could not see some of my note attachments in Evernote and the syncing was unreliable, not acceptable for me and what I do. Thanks for the opinions here, as it caused me to do my own research and feel even better about my decision.

[mackid1993 730]

UpNote is still based in Vietnam. They still don't support MFA without using a Google account which is unacceptable. They also charge $29 for lifetime access. Good luck when they go poof one day along with your data. I hope you are keeping frequent backups.

[Razmataz 218]

17 minutes ago, mackid1993 said:

UpNote is still based in Vietnam. They still don't support MFA without using a Google account which is unacceptable. They also charge $29 for lifetime access. Good luck when they go poof one day along with your data. I hope you are keeping frequent backups.

This is a rather biased view that ignores the arguments given by @LoriMachelle just above. For data protection it is relevant where the servers and the data center are, not where the development team is. We don't know where the EN development team is located, do we?. The company BS is based in Italy. The team can be anywhere and @PinkElephant has alluded in a post that they might be somewhere in the "third world". 

And no, one doesn't need a Google account, I am using an Apple ID for it. Apple was mentioned in the post of @LoriMachelle. To say it is unacceptable to have to use a Google account is bending the story. 

What's with $29? Is it too high for you? It is lifetime. EN Charges 4x of that for a single year. How is that an argument against Upnote?

They could go "poof" as any company can and EN almost did. In fact BS might stop EN if the exodus of paying users continues. Currently UpNote enjoys a rapidly growing user base.

For the record: I tried UpNote. I like it. But it isn't an EN replacement for me (e.g. no web access). But I can see how it could be for many EN users.

There is no need for such a blatant narrative that spins a story. EN V10 has serious issues, people are looking for alternatives. There is no need to try to scare them.

I am an EN user, a paying one and have been for 15 years. And I am scared.

[abdu 46]

I have my doubts about a $30 lifetime as a business model. Can a company survive a small lifetime fee while its customers is incurring daily expenses in terms of traffic and storage? The company has to pay for this storage and traffic for every customer forever.

Lately I have seen a lot of updates from Evernote. The most in all my years of using it. It appears to me this has coincided with their forcing their 51+ notes customers to pay up. I was one of them. More revenue = more resources for development.

I am going to check out https://joplinapp.org/. Looks pretty good. This will save me more than $100 a year.

[Jon/t 1,293]

2 minutes ago, abdu said:

I have my doubts about a $30 lifetime as a business model

Same. It's like tomorrows roast dinner and a couple of pints! 

[janndk 496]

UpNote https://getupnote.com/support.html : "We currently offer the lifetime plan option for UpNote. Even if we have to switch to a full subscription model, we will still honor lifetime licenses and lifetime users will be able to use all existing premium features."

I understand this as:
- Getting a lifetime license is possible now, but probably not in the future
- There will be new premium features that are not included in a lifetime license

Sounds great to me = responsible and future-proof. I follow UpNote's development with interest.

[Paul A. 624]

24 minutes ago, Razmataz said:

For data protection it is relevant where the servers and the data center are, not where the development team is.

From my perspective it's not that important where individual members of the development team are physically located. What's important to me is that a company's owners and leaders are incentivized to do the right thing in terms of how they treat my data beyond a simple economic interest in the company they are running. That means being incentivized to follow the law, to be truthful with how they are treating our data, and to face consequences if they fail to do so.

Public figures have incentives to uphold their reputations. If they are connected to a community of investors, that's another reason they have to not sully their reputations. Those investors also have reasons to investigate the people they are entrusting with their money, which provides some social proof of their trustworthiness. Combine that with living / working in countries with strong legal systems and with reciprocal legal agreements (e.g. to extradite criminals), they also have incentives to follow the law and face the possibility of harmed consumers seeking reparations through the civil court system. Of course none of this is perfect, but it gives me a measure of comfort.

A notes app that is (for example) developed by a couple of anonymous developers in Vietnam, just doesn't have the same reasons to trust them with my data.

[PinkElephant 8,120]

There are 2 basic approaches to this head scratcher: Either define knockout criteria first, sort out the possible field of options, and the run a selection on what’s left. Or run a selection first, creating a ranking (hopefully with some good contenders close to each other), and then cross check this smaller field with respect to your knockout criteria.

Either way I would include EN as the zero base option - the one you compare all others to, that means no effort in continuing to use.

And then everybody should be able to take a good decision - based on the personal use cases and preferences. One may think offline mode is necessary, another needs an excellent web clipper, a third OCR based document search. The same may be unimportant to another user, with his own ranking.

I don’t trust someone who tells 30€ is enough for a lifetime license - but I wouldn’t call it dishonest either. I think it is a typical offer for a startup that wants to generate income now, and grow its user base fast enough to be able to make a living when switching to subscription later. If this is a situation in which I make my personal buy in with my data - for me not, but everybody should find his own position. This has nothing to do with scaring, it’s just reasoning.

[janndk 496]

I probably wouldn't use UpNote to store lot of important or sensitive material - but it's intriguing to follow how a "team" with only 2 persons (compared to Bending Spoons 400? persons) can build a notetaking app that in many usercases is a real alternative to Evernote.

[gazumped 11,669]

Just for information - I've got two or three apps where I seem to have purchased a 'lifetime licence' more than once.  In each case it's been a major upgrade to the original app,  but I think the software market tends to look at 'lifetime' in a different way than the rest of us...

[mackid1993 730]

Beyond the lifetime license the app is like 99 cents a month and no 2FA. It smells like a honeypot to me. It's not like your notes are encrypted client side, just like Evernote UpNote can read your notes. However Evernote has incentive not to because we pay them $129-$169/year to safeguard our data. I don't trust 2 guys in Vietnam that I paid less than a dinner out for 2 people for lifetime access to safeguard any of my data. Put anything on UpNote with the exception that it may end up on a message board for sale one day. My point about no 2FA still stands, I refuse to use big tech SSO for anything-- its a bad idea if you really care about your privacy.

Out of note apps I don't trust I'd be more inclined to slightly trust Notesnook a bit more. They claim to be client side encrypted, but the company is based in Pakistan and I don't think I have to explain why Pakistan can be problematic.

Why do you think Proton has their headquarters in Switzerland, the laws where a company is based is extremely important.

[mackid1993 730]

4 hours ago, janndk said:

I probably wouldn't use UpNote to store lot of important or sensitive material - but it's intriguing to follow how a "team" with only 2 persons (compared to Bending Spoons 400? persons) can build a notetaking app that in many usercases is a real alternative to Evernote.

Small teams can be very agile. Directory Opus is developed by a team of 3. StartAllBack for Windows 11 is one guy.

A 16 year old kid reverse engineered iMessage on his own recently. Development of software is much less agile with larger and larger teams each taking on different parts of the app.

If UpNote incorporated somewhere with good privacy laws, fixed their security problems, and charged a sustainable fee I'd consider it.

 

Edit: I also want to address the point of Evernote being developed in the "third world." Based on their job openings Bending Spoons requires their engineers to relocate to Milan: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bendingspoons/jobs/

[janndk 496]

🤞

[janndk 496]

6 hours ago, mackid1993 said:

Edit: I also want to address the point of Evernote being developed in the "third world." Based on their job openings Bending Spoons requires their engineers to relocate to Milan: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bendingspoons/jobs/

...or working "fully remote" from Vietnam or Pakistan.
 

[abdu 46]

9 hours ago, janndk said:

I probably wouldn't use UpNote to store lot of important or sensitive material - but it's intriguing to follow how a "team" with only 2 persons (compared to Bending Spoons 400? persons) can build a notetaking app that in many usercases is a real alternative to Evernote.

Two founders. They could be hiring other full time and/or contract developers.

[Jon/t 1,293]

49 minutes ago, janndk said:

or working "fully remote" from Vietnam or Pakistan.

Or London, Wales, Madrid, Berlin or Lisbon!

The fact they offer Milan based jobs says to me they are not going for the cheapest labour they can find. Milan is nice!

Me, I'd be fully remote next to an Italian vineyard!

[janndk 496]

27 minutes ago, Jon/t said:

Or London, Wales, Madrid, Berlin or Lisbon!

The fact they offer Milan based jobs says to me they are not going for the cheapest labour they can find. Milan is nice!

Me, I'd be fully remote next to an Italian vineyard!

I think they should hire those two UpNote-guys in Vietnam, and get Evernote fixed.

[mackid1993 730]

It's where the company is based. Not the employees.... I was simply making the point that most BS devs are in Milan not that it really matters since the company legally is. 

[gazumped 11,669]

BS also do -or have done- (Italian) government work so I'd guess they have some reasonably high standards.

[mackid1993 730]

16 minutes ago, gazumped said:

BS also do -or have done- (Italian) government work so I'd guess they have some reasonably high standards.

Yes they made Italy's official COVID-19 app. Just a reminder Italy was one of the hardest hit countries.

[janndk 496]

20 minutes ago, gazumped said:

BS also do -or have done- (Italian) government work so I'd guess they have some reasonably high standards.

Can't say how it is generally, but quality standards for coding and customer support are clearly not very high.

[mackid1993 730]

24 minutes ago, janndk said:

Can't say how it is generally, but quality standards for coding and customer support are clearly not very high.

Not saying I agree but they have a move fast and break things mentality which is common in tech.

[Razmataz 218]

But I can: I agree. "Not very high" is a euphemism. 

[Paul A. 624]

On 4/6/2024 at 11:01 PM, janndk said:

...or working "fully remote" from Vietnam or Pakistan.

Individual developers working remotely in (just about) any part of the world is not really a concern to me. Presumably they will be held to the standards and expectations of the mothership, and that (and the mothership's ownership structure, owners, culture, and leadership) is the part I really care about, for reasons I outlined above.