Evernote v10 is still not an adequate replacement for the old v6.25 Windows legacy client.

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

The old v6 windows "legacy" client shows a red banner now and will probably be switched off sometime in the near future so I tried Evernote v10 once again and honestly it's still nothing more than a windowed Webapp.

For the purpose of visualizing my criticism I opened a free Evernote Account with 40 Notebooks organized in 4 stacks.

As can be seen on the screenshot I still consider Evernote v10 to be vastly inferior and borderline unuseable compared to the old v6 windows client for the following reasons:

• Reactivity/Speed: Evernote v10 stalls everytime (!) I switch between notes or notebooks. Enabling the local database in settings doesn't change this behaviour. On my Android devices I forcefully transitioned to v10 a long time ago and the lack of speed is still such an issue that I'm using Google Keep for taking quick notes.
• On v6.25 favorites are always visible on the top, one mouselick away. On v10 favorites are now part of the left pane which makes them go offscreen if you work with notebooks further down below. Do they really expect me to scroll everytime I want to access my favorites? 
• v10 suffers from a massive waste of screen estate as UI design principles from a webapp are carried over to a desktop app. Far less notebooks, notes and note content is visible and everything needs a lot more scrolling. I could force an app specific smaller scaling factor under windows but that would introduce other issues and is not a real solution.
• with v6.25 it was possible to have two Evernote Account windows open side by side (like company and private) and even drag and drop notes between. v10 doesn't let me do this anymore.
• there's a whole lof of other things that are all derived from the fact that v10 is not a native windows client anymore but rather an Electron based windowed webapp. Interestingly, Microsoft did something similar a few years ago when they decided to replace their proven OneNote windows client with a UWP app only to make an u-turn one year later. With Evernote I don't see a new windows client to appear on the horizon anytime soon and the programmers that wrote the original Win32 client are probably long gone.

Dear Evernote: Instead of introducing new AI features nobody asked for it's about time to evaluate if demands of your paying customer base are still properly met and what can be done about it. Right now I feel like beeing thrown under the bus, you may double or triple my subscription fees to keep Evernote healthy and ad-free but in return I expect you to provide me with a fast and powerful windows desktop client, not a slow, fancy webapp.

If you're a subscriber and agree with me pls contact Evernote and have your voices heard. Microsoft OneNote users wouldn't accept an inferior UWP OneNote app either and their massive protest eventually made Microsoft to reverse course for the better.

[gazumped 11,676]

While I sympthise with your frustrations,  I don't see Evernote being able to reverse the decision to use the Elektron framework.  I'm finding the responses quicker now than they have ever been,  and I have moved over both my Win 10 laptop - which was running Legacy - and my Win 11 Desktop to v10.63.3

It's different and will take some getting used to;  but it's either than or another app.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,967]

4 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

Dear Evernote: Instead of introducing new AI features nobody asked for it's about time to evaluate if demands of your paying customer base are still properly met and what can be done about it. Right now I feel like beeing thrown under the bus, you may double or triple my subscription fees to keep Evernote healthy and ad-free but in return I expect you to provide me with a fast and powerful windows desktop client, not a slow, fancy webapp.

If you're a subscriber and agree with me pls contact Evernote and have your voices heard. Microsoft OneNote users wouldn't accept an inferior UWP OneNote app either and their massive protest eventually made Microsoft to reverse course for the better.

What if I'm a subscriber and disagree with you? What if I want software that works well (and similarly) on multiple platforms, not just Windows? Evernote's goal has always been to be multi-platform and current some kind of wrapper like Electron seems to be the best way they've found to achieve that, with all the tradeoffs it involves.

 

4 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

Reactivity/Speed: Evernote v10 stalls everytime (!) I switch between notes or notebooks. Enabling the local database in settings doesn't change this behaviour.

I don't see that stalling at all. If you didn't originally have the local database enabled, it may take some time for it to download fully, after which things should speed up.

[PinkElephant 8,121]

The native Windows client hyped here is a piece of outdated code, still running on 32bit. On Macs running one of the last 5 MacOS versions it wouldn't even execute any more, that's how outdated it is.

It's exactly the sort of software Windows is "famous" for: Completely outdated, unsupported, probably full of unpatched code waiting to be exploited one day. Little wonder that nearly all ransomware attacks start by the hacker taking over a Windows PC, and using it as foothold to compromise a network.

The only way to operate such a software securely is to take the computer offline and airgap it, cutting all connections to the network. Not really an option for an app like EN that relies on syncing to and from a server, where key functions are performed.

No matter why the beloved is beloved, time to say goodbye.

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

16 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

I don't see that stalling at all. If you didn't originally have the local database enabled, it may take some time for it to download fully, after which things should speed up

My test account comprises of 39 empty notebooks and one notebook with 14 text only notes inside. During testing I activated the local database right away and gave it some time to rest, shouldn't take too long to download 14 text notes (<1mb)

I experience the stalling issue ("saving changes") on every other premium account and independently of windows laptop or internet connection in use, so either I'm very very unlucky or you just don't notice it?

I invite you to post a video on youtube that shows how you can switch between notes/notebooks without any "saving" interruption

(edit: in case it wasn't clear, I'm talking about Evernote v10 on Windows 10/11!)

Edited October 11, 2023 by AngryEvernotePremiumUser
clarified post

[Jon/t 1,293]

17 minutes ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

I invite you to post a video on youtube that shows how you switch between notes/notebooks without any "saving" interruption

 

I don't see any stalling in saving here and I switch between notes and notebooks all the time. Saving is pretty much instantly done and shows on other devices using the real time sync feature. Maybe a reinstall? Are you using an app store version or the direct download? Some folk have had better performance with the direct download version as its not restricted by app store rules.

[AlbertR 535]

21 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

... you may double or triple my subscription fees to keep Evernote healthy and ad-free but in return I expect you to provide me with a fast and powerful windows desktop client ...

I completely agree with your (mine - our) reasons. But I also go along with EN's decision to offer new clients to deliver new features easily on all platforms the same way.

One possibility to solve this dilemma would be to allow at least paying users to use Legacy  forEver. (*)

If new features are stable (and customizable) enough, users will change to EN10. No problem (even for me 😉)

(*) I know that syncing support for both version is a problem - no need for others to point on this. But as long as only paying users will be able to use it, there is a budget to hold staff to support it.  

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

5 minutes ago, Jon/t said:

Are you using an app store version or the direct download?

I'm using Evernote v10 latest version downloaded from the Evernote website, installed on three different Windows laptops.

[gazumped 11,676]

22 minutes ago, AlbertR said:

to allow at least paying users to use Legacy  forEver.

So all paying users who use v10 only are also supporting Legacy users who choose not to move across?  Don't see that being popular...

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

16 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

The native Windows client hyped here is a piece of outdated code, still running on 32bit

The Windows client is only outdated because Evernote ceased development and went all in to unify client development with this Electron wrapper approach.

I like the concept of a multi plattform client but after 3 years I think it's time to concede that an Electron based app will never provide the same performance and user experience a native Windows software does.

 

16 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

What if I want software that works well (and similarly) on multiple platforms, not just Windows?

Right now, Evernote v10 doesn't work particularly well on any plattform. The situation is very similar to Microsofts failed UWP Apps, however Microsoft quickly gave in while Evernote is still trying to make it work.

Evernote 10 on Android is soo slow that even just looking something up puts a major strain on my patience, I now use Google Keep for taking quick notes.

[bmcl26 488]

5 minutes ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

Evernote 10 on Android is soo slow that even just looking something up puts a major strain on my patience, I now use Google Keep for taking quick notes.

I disagree with this; even my four-year-old Samsung A70 running Android 11 worked excellently at a meeting I attended Yesterday.  Prior to attending, I ensured that the note was downloaded to the phone and pinned to the lock screen so every relevant document I needed at the meeting was instantly available.

[AlbertR 535]

17 minutes ago, gazumped said:

41 minutes ago, AlbertR said:

to allow at least paying users to use Legacy  forEver.

So all paying users who use v10 only are also supporting Legacy users who choose not to move across? ...

... or good reason for non-paying users to choose a payed plan.

21 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Don't see that being popular...

OK, but it's a business case that should be discussed (or at least to end the boring discussion around forcing satisfied users to an under-equiped new version).

Other option: Let's use Legacy as a payed option...

[ferol 439]

I purposely didn't install Evernote 10 for 3 years, because after trying it at the beginning, it was clear to me that it would take a long time... 
I've now had Evernote 10 for just over 2 months, and in those 2 months I can see a noticeable shift towards a more agile system on both Windows and Android.

There are other apps on Electron for notes and they run significantly more nimbly. So Electron itself probably won't be the problem.

I suppose if they simply turned off Legacy versions and didn't deal with duplicate legacy syncing, it would move further towards more nimbleness again.  At least I'm optimistic about this after the 2 months I've been in v.10 and also here on the forums...

[Boot17 1,455]

I think prior to v10 Evernote was mostly dead in the water with all of it's distinct code bases and distinct functionality across platforms and they had a hard time moving forward and staying viable. Sure they could have hunkered down and just maintained status quo and many would have been happy, but the business would have gone under and then we'd have nothing.

Are there very many (any?) PKM systems that are native (aka NOT something like Electron as a base framework) that work across Web, Windows, Mac, iPhone, and Android? Especially any as robust as Evernote? I can't think of any but I'm really curious about it. UpNote maybe comes close with native mobile clients, but it uses Electron on Desktop and has no Web app.

In a recent interview, Federico mentioned that they are re-examining the UI/UX of Evernote and are wanting to make it better (along with stability and performance improvements). They are a fresh set of eyes, so something improved will come out of that.

They obviously have a trade-off between moving forward and losing Legacy only subscribers.

Maybe there are some tweaks they can make in the next few months to help bridge that gap before Legacy syncing stops altogether.

[Santoku 1]

I've had EN 6.25.1.9091 for so many years now I can't recall the last upgrade. I simply don't need or wish to access my notes on  other devices and don't want private notes synched to a cloud. There seems to be no option to license the software on my own Win10 PC, so why why would I want to upgrade? This works fine as is, despite the incessant prompting to update. What I wonder is, what will eventually happen--Will it stop working at some point without an update?

[s2sailor 2,207]

2 hours ago, gazumped said:

So all paying users who use v10 only are also supporting Legacy users who choose not to move across?  Don't see that being popular...

Personally, supporting the millions of free users bothers me more.  Letting Legacy limp along as a pay only tier assuming it is financially sustainable and doesn’t hinder development of V10 is, IMO, an interesting idea.

[Feitz 170]

3 hours ago, bmcl26 said:

Prior to attending, I ensured that the note was downloaded to the phone and pinned to the lock screen so every relevant document I needed at the meeting was instantly available.

sorry to say this but this is not 'normal use' of an app. You could as well take a screenshot of the note and have it accessible instantly.

Point is, V10 on Android is not usable on Android, most of the time it simply shows a blank sceen upon loading so you never know whether it freezed or is doing something in the background (can't be syncing since we have RTS that instantly syncs).

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

3 hours ago, bmcl26 said:

I disagree with this; even my four-year-old Samsung A70 running Android 11 worked excellently at a meeting I attended Yesterday.  Prior to attending, I ensured that the note was downloaded to the phone and pinned to the lock screen so every relevant document I needed at the meeting was instantly available.

so you had an upcoming meeting and (with some prior preparation) you were actually able to display a note during that meeting despite using a 4 year old tablet? That's amazing...

respectfully my baseline for a note taking app to be useful is a bit higher than that

[agsteele 2,951]

42 minutes ago, Feitz said:

Point is, V10 on Android is not usable on Android, most of the time it simply shows a blank sceen upon loading so you never know whether it freezed or is doing something in the background (can't be syncing since we have RTS that instantly syncs).

I don't doubt that you have an issue that needs to be addressed but I've never experienced what you describe. Neither do I experiance the slowness that others mention. Again, that is an issue that needs attention but it isn't universal.

[bmcl26 488]

1 hour ago, Feitz said:

sorry to say this but this is not 'normal use' of an app. You could as well take a screenshot of the note and have it accessible instantly.

Point is, V10 on Android is not usable on Android, most of the time it simply shows a blank sceen upon loading so you never know whether it freezed or is doing something in the background (can't be syncing since we have RTS that instantly syncs).

That may well be your experience of it and if it is I sympathise, but it certainly is not mine,  especially after the last two updates. I never get these blank screens or freezing and it syncs fine. 

[bmcl26 488]

1 hour ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

so you had an upcoming meeting and (with some prior preparation) you were actually able to display a note during that meeting despite using a 4 year old tablet? That's amazing...

respectfully my baseline for a note taking app to be useful is a bit higher than that

If you had read my post you should have have known a Samsung A70 is a smartphone not a tablet.  My point was I could access all documentation for the meeting from the note,  agenda,  previous minutes,  proposal papers and everything required for the meeting.   It did what is required if it and I was merely pointing out that not everyone has the issues you describe.   

[Feitz 170]

10 minutes ago, bmcl26 said:

especially after the last two updates

Thank you, last time I tried was about 3 months back. Currently I rely on being able to access my notes without fuss but I'll give it a try again shortly and see how it goes.

[Member since 2012 8]

On 10/11/2023 at 10:13 AM, AlbertR said:

... or good reason for non-paying users to choose a payed plan.

OK, but it's a business case that should be discussed (or at least to end the boring discussion around forcing satisfied users to an under-equiped new version).

Other option: Let's use Legacy as a payed option...

No doubt!  I've been a customer since 2012 and happily paying to use version 6.25   The feature to move my notes by dragging them in the left bar within reminders is a huge time saver for me and the reason I'm still a paying evernotes customer.  I use Evernotes as a daily/long term to-do list as well as data storage. 

I like being able sort/rank my todo list with the drag feature without going to note, typing in what needs to get done that day/week or month, that list eventually gets buried.  As well, when I drag items, I can easily access the shopping list or whatever that task entails.

Now, I'm getting the dreaded "RED BAR" that evernotes is going to shut down the version myself and so many others use, PLEASE don't shut down the great legacy version that's in place.

[Member since 2012 8]

On 10/11/2023 at 9:45 AM, gazumped said:

So all paying users who use v10 only are also supporting Legacy users who choose not to move across?  Don't see that being popular...

Or...the Legacy customers funded the v10 that doesn't work for me and so many others, v6.25 is why I pay for EN.  

[Santoku 1]

2 hours ago, Member since 2012 said:

No doubt!  I've been a customer since 2012 and happily paying to use version 6.25   

Now, I'm getting the dreaded "RED BAR" that evernotes is going to shut down the version myself and so many others use, PLEASE don't shut down the great legacy version that's in place.

Member since 2012, I find myself in the same boat with you, using 6.25.1.9091 (309091) on Windows 10 Pro. I prefer not to upgrade. How are you able to pay to continue using 6.25 without upgrading? I'm being prompted to upgrade. I would gladly pay NOT to upgrade. 

[agsteele 2,951]

Just carry on using 6.25.1  For the time being it will continue to work but you get the extra warning.

However, one day sooner rather than later it will stop so take the warning as advice for you to either make peace with v10 or take the time provided to plan your alternative.

[skywalker 3]

So the elephant seems to be -  It would be helpful to the many "legacy customer" if Evernote management provided a final "operational date" where "Legacy" will no longer function properly for syncing etc.  My gut says, eventually, maybe without sufficient warning (unclear), the legacy infrastructure will just stop working one day b/c it will be shutdown as a cost-saving measure. 

As two long time paying customers, we've tried moving to 10.x at least 2-4x over the few years and each time, it was a "controlled disaster" which we had to roll-back from.  Consider too that just updating from legacy to 10.x is NOT a simple task.  For instance, we have older Scansnap scanners which have worked reliably for years which will have to be replaced b/c they are unsupported supported in 10.x  That's more incurred capital costs.   

My general plan is to upgrade to a Windows 11 laptop sometime before EOY 2023.  That's when I was going to try the current Evernote client again while I kept my existing "legacy" setup installed on the older setup as a fail-safe.  I've followed many of the discussions and we've done our own searching for replacements as well.

I liked the idea floated earlier that maybe "paying clients" could stay on "legacy" but without the business case details, it would be tough to say whether even that is viable.

Cheers!

[PinkElephant 8,121]

This is just a reminder that there is a „too late“ for many things. You could have converted you EN edition ScanSnap Scanners to a standard ix500 through a firmware update. It was offered by Fujitsu, for free.

Anybody with such a scanner who migrated to v10 probably used it, because it was a simple way to extend the scanners life. But the offer was only valid ‘til spring this year.

Not making the switch in time now likely bricks your scanner. You can try with Fujitsu support if they know a source for the conversion software.

[CalS 5,280]

@skywalker You can set up scan profiles with ScanSnap Manager (soon to retire) or Home to save scans to a folder.  If Import works the same as it did in Legacy it is simple to get the scans into EN.  If not drag and drop.  IAC, the old scanner should still be useful.

[gazumped 11,676]

3 hours ago, skywalker said:

we have older Scansnap scanners which have worked reliably for years which will have to be replaced b/c they are unsupported

? I still have a 10+ year-old ScanSnap S1500 which scans to a Windows folder on my desktop,  from which files go to Evernote via either an Import Folder or drag-n-drop.

-On your other points,  Evernote said - some years ago now - that Legacy apps were no longer supported.  Out of respect for subscribers and existing users,  they haven't cut off access yet...  but I imagine they have a line that once crossed,  will mean no more compatibility worries for them.  Once Legacy usage drops below x%,  access will at the least become erratic,  and may simply stop.  I'd think they're getting closer by the day...

[PinkElephant 8,121]

My assumption is (maybe wrong) that the „older“ ScanSnap scanners are EN Edition scanners. These were Fujitsu ix500 with special firmware.

In general all scanners that work with a computer can send content into EN. The best way to import for me are Import Folders.

[bmcl26 488]

I use my HP Printer/Scanner and send Scans to a Scan Import Folder.

[AlbertR 535]

On 10/13/2023 at 4:57 PM, Member since 2012 said:

The feature to <... see reminders> in the left bar ... is a huge time saver
...

THX for pointing on this. Even after many years of using EN I didn't know this feature because I work with note's Top List view (Ctrl-F7) in which Reminders have to be enabled explicitely as a simple sortable column 😉 (together with Reminder Done Times - which is impossible in EN10 - but this is an other discussion... 😞)

[SWSL 66]

After I was forced into the Android update, the first time I actually needed it,  I want to take a photo note.  It kept freezing.   I finally saved the photo note in google Keep.    Repeated visits to EN android have mostly been painful, many steps to get where it should be easy, difficulty moving around in the app with interface decisions and overall, enough dysfunctionality so that I concluded to only have it on the phone for emergencies but to do anything I need access to in Keep.  

I have resigned myself to the new reduced functionality and no longer being able to depend on EN mobile app.  As long as the Windows client can keep working, it should be easier to deal with a poor interface on a bigger screen.   Still on legacy there - my red banner went away, not sure why.   But anyway, I will just download pdfs to my phone and put key info into into Keep or email as needed for reference.  Trying to adjust to what I am stuck with.  Too bad - it was so convenient before! 

That's my experience, but I suppose I'll be told that my experience is not valid because it works for you and I'm doing something wrong.   I don't know - I just wish it would work like it did before they fixed it.    Don't have time to fool around.   

[gazumped 11,676]

1 hour ago, SWSL said:

I suppose I'll be told that my experience is not valid because it works for you and I'm doing something wrong

No-one will tell you your experience is not valid,  but it's not common - which means it isn't necessarily an issue with the app,  but maybe with your version of Android,  your device,  or the local network connection when Evernote is trying to check with the server before loading the camera feature.

We're not support here - just other users;  so I'd suggest you do the only fix that's possible on a mobile device - uninstall your app / restart the device / reinstall from the app store.  After that, if you still have issues,  feed them back from Settings on the mobile,  or via Support if you're a subscriber.

Others may have had the same experience,  so if anyone found a workaround you may hear more...  meantime maybe tell us what device and Evernote / Android versions you're using and maybe someone else ccan assist.

[SWSL 66]

23 minutes ago, gazumped said:

We're not support here - just other users

Oh, I know.  Probably that was an unnecessary comment on my part.  Not helpful.   

I'm not even looking for support, just sharing my experience.    Mostly I was just commiserating with the OP that for somebody on the go, when the app was upgraded and got difficult we just had to jump over to using the simple reliable Keep.   

But thanks-  Next time I have time, I will check into the app again on my various Android devices to see if I can use it now.  That would be great.  Better to come at it with a "half-full" approach instead of the "why is my glass suddenly half-empty"?  Haha.

Cheers

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,967]

11 hours ago, SWSL said:

Repeated visits to EN android have mostly been painful, many steps to get where it should be easy, difficulty moving around in the app with interface decisions and overall, enough dysfunctionality so that I concluded to only have it on the phone for emergencies but to do anything I need access to in Keep.  

I have resigned myself to the new reduced functionality and no longer being able to depend on EN mobile app.

My own experience is that Evernote for Android v. 10 can do more than the older v. 8 and previous. Formatting stuff may not be as obvious to get to at first, but there's a lot more of it. I'm able to get pictures without difficulty, which may or may not have to do with connectivity, etc. Can you say more about functionality you find missing? I'm not saying there isn't any, not invalidating your experience, just wondering what's missing.

[SWSL 66]

I came back to chime in that I've now switched to the v10.x  on the desktop and it's looking very good so far.   I forget the issues I saw before, but it seems to be working fine and the layout and interface is not feeling too clunky or complicated by feature gloat.  

I'm having a bit of trouble sorting out search  but I could never get the search in legacy to work well for me.  Seems like it's better now, I just need to sort out when it's searching what.  In that area, I would hope that we can eliminate the need for terms (like "intitle:"  and just have a priority that would put a result found in the title at the top or give a checkbox like most forums have.  

So, at this point, I feel like EN 10 is fully adequate and as good of a tool (for my use case!) as before.   Also hoping that my Android installations (especially tablet) will prove to function better as I poke at them now and then.

Now my only real concern is whether I can afford the ever-inflating pricing scheme.  They really need a low level tier to keep everyone in the fold, but paying.   I would vote for a lowish monthly upload limit as before.  I guess it may come down to choosing Netflix, Prime or EN, for those of us that have to live on a tighter budget.   There are SO many ongoing fees these days it's insane.   EN will win over Prime if they can offer anything close to the plus subscription cost. 

Anyway, as one who mostly reports issues, I wanted to put in a word or two on the positive here. 

[gazumped 11,676]

12 minutes ago, SWSL said:

whether I can afford the ever-inflating pricing scheme.  They really need a low level tier.

Hi.  Glad you're finding things better.  On the search front - just search for words;  on desktop you'll see a list of hits,  and if the search word is in the title it will be highlighted.  Fancier searches are possible with Filters.  As to prices,  they were unchanged for 6 years - the latest uplift is to get them back into contention.  Further increases (if any for a while) will be inflation related.

EDIT: forgot the pic..

[SWSL 66]

6 minutes ago, gazumped said:

On the search front - just search for words;  on desktop you'll see a list of hits,  and if the search word is in the title it will be highlighted.  Fancier searches are possible with Filters.

Thanks.  I just checked and search already looks clearer than I noticed the other day.  I must have been searching in a different mode, not sure.    Actually it's  quite easy to tell where I'm searching.  For some reason I have a grayed out filters option but nice to know that there is that possibility and it's improving just as I was hoping for.  

[PinkElephant 8,121]

If you just recently switched, it may well be that the local download is still ongoing, as are some optimizations for the new data structure.

Consequently search behavior can improve over time during the first week or so of use.