Bending Spoons Price Increases Begin

[PinkElephant 8,284]

What needs to be told about DEVONThink: It is self hosted, the main database must be running on your own Mac. The cloud integration only serves to transfer data to the mobile app. Mobile is iOS only, and less powerful than the EN mobile clients.

DT is powerful, but it follows a different concept. The importer from EN is working well.

[lost_gweedo 73]

Somewhat off thread topic, but the Notion importer from EN is iffy.  Break your import down into single notebooks, otherwise it looks like a successful import but is missing items.

[Bill Myers 458]

15 hours ago, NightStalker said:

But now that the greedy Italian mob have bought Evernote, all bets are off, and the price rises are "to support continued development" and all the other usual justification BS.

Seriously, in 2023, are we still doing this? I realize this is probably doing as much good as shouting into the wind, but can't we have this conversation without resorting to idiotic stereotypes?

I will confess I've had trepidations about the Bending Spoons acquisition. I have no idea what they'll eventually do with respect to pricing, features, and functionality. I also have no idea whether they'll be successful with the product. It's not as though Evernote's old investors would have any reason to care about the long-term viability of the product in this situation. They've cashed out. The rest isn't their problem. I'm not saying that's good or bad. That's just what it is.

Still, it seems to me we have only three options in this situation:
1. Stay with Evernote and make our peace with the uncertainty. (That's the option I've chosen.)
2. Decide that Evernote for whatever reason no longer suits us, and leave for another product. (I think that's a totally legit and reasonable choice.)
3. Decide we hate Evernote for whatever reason (quality, features, pricing, whatever) but refuse to leave, instead bitterly complaining on a user forum to other users who have no more ability to control or influence things than we do. You know, in other words, just decide to be miserable. I have no idea why, but it seems to me a lot of people are picking this option even though it seems to be the worst of the three.

I don't think anyone on their deathbed will look back and think, "Boy, I wish I had spent more time being angry about cloud-based notetaking apps." I've got far more important things to invest my emotions in than Evernote. If the product goes belly up, becomes pricier than I'm willing to pay, or otherwise ceases to meet my needs, I can move on and be fine. 

I think users helping other users is a great use of this forum. I think coming on here and being miserable about something outside of our control may not be. But... hey, it's your life and your choice.  

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

35 minutes ago, Bill Myers said:

I don't think anyone on their deathbed will look back and think, "Boy, I wish I had spent more time being angry about cloud-based notetaking apps." I've got far more important things to invest my emotions in than Evernote. If the product goes belly up, becomes pricier than I'm willing to pay, or otherwise ceases to meet my needs, I can move on and be fine.

 This. I recently heard an interview with Claire Dederer, author of Monsters: A Fan's Dilemma, a book about how fans respond to news that their idol has done something terrible. She suggests that there is a new kind of "fandom" today, involving an intense identification between the person who loves the work and the artist themselves. I wonder if something similar can happen with software and online services. Evernote is not unique in this respect--I've seen it elsewhere too. People get very involved with a service, and then when something significant changes in what seems a negative way, they kind of melt down, and in public.

Sigh. Which may be perceived as trying to silence criticism of Evernote. Not a bit. Express yourself fully. But, in a friendly way, might one suggest asking why people become so heated over these things?

[janndk 576]

2 hours ago, Bill Myers said:

1. Stay with Evernote and make our peace with the uncertainty. (That's the option I've chosen.)
2. Decide that Evernote for whatever reason no longer suits us, and leave for another product. (I think that's a totally legit and reasonable choice.)
3. Decide we hate Evernote for whatever reason (quality, features, pricing, whatever) but refuse to leave, instead bitterly complaining on a user forum to other users who have no more ability to control or influence things than we do. You know, in other words, just decide to be miserable. I have no idea why, but it seems to me a lot of people are picking this option even though it seems to be the worst of the three.

I think it's mostly frustration and disappointment - not hatred (yet!). And a lot of uncertainty for Evernotes future as a part of BendingSpoons.

The decision - leave or stay - isn't always so simple. We have daily workflows are formed and optimized to the way Evernote works. And many people have tons of content, which is difficult or maybe even impossible to move to another service.

[Federico Simionato 1,031]

Hello folks, nice meeting everybody! A few clarifications here:

1. To those asking when they’ll get billed: You’ll get billed with the new prices at your next plan’s renewal date (after June 1). We don’t modify renewal dates.
2. Questions about where we are focusing our development time: The vast majority of our engineering firepower is focused on fixing sync and improving important pieces of the infrastructure. The remaining engineers are working on AI features and on releasing RTE, but I can guarantee that we are not compromising on the foundational stuff to build them.

As a general point, I see some worry arising from the fact that the online discourse is pretty negative right now. This is understandable and expected, as it represents the distillation of a vocal minority. As you may have noticed, we conducted several tests before deciding on the current price change, and we are very confident that the new configuration will have a positive long-term impact on Evernote and our ability to invest in innovation and product improvements.

[Bill Myers 458]

6 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Sigh. Which may be perceived as trying to silence criticism of Evernote. Not a bit. Express yourself fully. But, in a friendly way, might one suggest asking why people become so heated over these things?

Yeah. I understand why people might want to air out criticisms in this forum. Sometimes Evernote employees used to peek in here. Now, apparently at least one person from Bending Spoons is doing so. Constructive criticism from customers is fair game. And some feedback isn't necessarily suited for a support ticket. Good companies make use of customer communication across multiple channels. 

But if you're angry and not getting satisfaction from a company, though, it's time to leave. I hate to break it to people, but no matter how justifiable you believe your anger to be, the targets of your feelings are just going to go on with their lives. If you choose not to do the same, the only person you're hurting is you. And whether you want to accept it or not, you're making a deliberate choice.

Again, I'm probably shouting into the wind. There's probably not much more to say than I already have.

[Bill Myers 458]

4 hours ago, janndk said:

I think it's mostly frustration and disappointment - not hatred (yet!). And a lot of uncertainty for Evernotes future as a part of BendingSpoons.

Well, given the level of vitriol I've seen on this forum over a number of years, it's not just about the Bending Spoons acquisition and it's a lot more than just frustration and disappointment. Obviously, referring to Bending Spoons as a "greedy Italian mob" is one of the more extreme examples, but it's not isolated. And it represents a lot more than just "uncertainty" on people's part.

 

4 hours ago, janndk said:

The decision - leave or stay - isn't always so simple. We have daily workflows are formed and optimized to the way Evernote works. And many people have tons of content, which is difficult or maybe even impossible to move to another service.

I disagree. At one time, Evernote was very important to my "workflow," now it is much less so. But the decision to leave or stay is a simple, binary choice. It may not be easy, but it is simple.

Again, I think everyone would be well-served to make peace with their choice. I have doubts and concerns about Bending Spoons, but I've placed my bet. Fretting or being pissed off won't change the outcome. If I get too uncomfortable, I'm free to leave. 

But if people prefer to stick around in a situation that makes them miserable, they're free to do so. And if they want to wrongly convince themselves that their performative anger is hurting anyone else as much as it is them, they're free to do that, too.

I understand that when you've come to rely on a product in a certain way and can no longer do so, that can be stressful. Nevertheless, I refuse to go to my grave someday (hopefully decades from now, but one never knows what the next moment will bring) thinking, "Damn it, I gave up a chunk of my life to hating on Evernote when I could have used that time and energy to smell the roses, or appreciate my loved ones, or stuff like that."

[Paul A. 650]

2 hours ago, Federico Simionato said:

Hello folks, nice meeting everybody! A few clarifications here:

1. To those asking when they’ll get billed: You’ll get billed with the new prices at your next plan’s renewal date (after June 1). We don’t modify renewal dates.

Welcome to the forums! Great to have Evernote's product lead participating here. I have two questions:

1. On your blog post, you say:
   The new prices are effective starting May 1 for new subscribers and starting end of May for existing subscribers.
   
   Is there a reason Evernote doesn't seem to be honoring the previous prices for existing subscribers who are interested in upgrading to Professional this month?
   
   It seems like this would be a customer-friendly move and would have at worst an extremely tiny impact on revenue over the next year (and in some scenarios might even enhance revenue in the short-term if some users are motivated to upgrade to Professional to lock in the previous price when they otherwise wouldn't have considered upgrading).
2. Any chance you'll have the team working on QOL (quality of life) fixes in addition to the big splashy sync and AI features? I made a post further upthread with some of the small issues which irritate me and which (when combined together) reduce my satisfaction with Evernote quite significantly:
   https://discussion.evernote.com/forums/topic/145109-bending-spoons-price-increases-begin/?do=findComment&comment=681143
    

[PinkElephant 8,284]

Hey, why this dire discussions (in general, not meaning anybody in special here): There are people who have seen value in EN, and invested a chunk of money to be able to get at the steering wheel.

That's positive, isn't it ?

Our bet as a user is quite simple: We invest a little money (I don't think anybody is selling house and car to be able to pay the next subscription), and we see where the next 12 months will take us. After seeing the new sync in action I know for sure the last 12 months took us much farther ahead than 1 year.

Or we don't want it any more: Then we better know our use cases, and make a good analysis of our options before we move elsewhere.

If somebody has a problem to decide, toss a coin. 

[Bill Myers 458]

2 hours ago, Federico Simionato said:

As a general point, I see some worry arising from the fact that the online discourse is pretty negative right now.

Hi, @Federico Simionato. I wouldn't call it "worry," at least not on my part. Just an observation. And I've been a member of this forum for awhile. Sometimes I've participated more, sometimes less, sometimes not at all. But I've been a pretty consistent lurker and this is really nothing new. It's the internet, you know?

Nevertheless, I appreciate seeing communication from the "head of Evernote" at Bending Spoons. I understand that due to normal M&A stuff, communication from Bending Spoons needed to be limited for a time. Still, I think the more you can communicate with us customers, the better it will be both for us and your company.

Please understand, it's been quite a ride for customers. While I don't share the intensity of emotion from some of my fellow Evernote subscribers, I have a times asked myself "oh, Lord, what now?" in response to some of the developments over the years. Former Evernote CEO Phil Libin promised a focus on quality that never seemed to materialize. Ian Small promised changes to Evernote that would simply make things better without disrupting how people did their work (he even claimed he once rearranged things in the refrigerators in the company breakroom to illustrate to employees how unhappy it makes customers when you break their workflows), only to release a new version of Evernote that did a lot things he promised not to.

Ultimately, a lot of people who were initially unhappy with v10 have made their peace with it, myself included. Although some clearer communication wouldn't have hurt. Had Small told us that in order to create a more stable, higher quality product, they would have to streamline things, deprecate some features and change others, I would have been able to accept that. No one can please everyone. No one can make a circle that's also a square. Some features that were my favorites might simply not have been important enough to the entire user base to justify the cost of building them into the new version.

But, again, good communication would be a really welcome change. So would keeping promises. 

I really don't know what to make of Bending Spoons. Never heard of you before this. But if you keep in mind the two things I've mentioned, I don't think it will be too hard to keep a lot of us happy, and make your investment in Evernote profitable.

I wish you the best of luck with the acquisition.

[Bill Myers 458]

2 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

If somebody has a problem to decide, toss a coin. 

I decided to re-up for a year to take advantage of a discount. Like I said, I placed a bet. If it turns out to be a bad one, it will be far from the costliest mistake I've made.

[Bill Myers 458]

By the way, I don't want to belabor my point but resorting to the stereotype of Italians being organized criminals isn't just crass, it's hateful. I don't expect to persuade anyone who would say such a thing to admit that it's hate speech, or to be willing to change their ways (in fact, I expect the opposite of them). But I feel it needs saying. 

One could argue that "hate speech" is too strong a phrase and I'm just being "woke." I would disagree. 

And one could argue that it's best to just ignore such things. But I feel people of goodwill need to step up and stand up for our fellow humans.

Bending Spoons saw an opportunity to acquire a product and add it to their portfolio, almost certainly for less money than they could have had the prior owners been able to maximize its potential. They're betting that they can make that investment pay off. That's not a crime. And they sure as hell don't deserve to be smeared for that (to be clear, ethnic slurs are never deserved, though). Whether I choose to remain a customer or not (and for at least the next twelve months, I'll remain a customer), I wish them success.

[Sayre Ambrosio 520]

2 minutes ago, Bill Myers said:

By the way, I don't want to belabor my point but resorting to the stereotype of Italians being organized criminals isn't just crass, it's hateful. I don't expect to persuade anyone who would say such a thing to admit that it's hate speech, or to be willing to change their ways (in fact, I expect the opposite of them). But I feel it needs saying. 

One could argue that "hate speech" is too strong a phrase and I'm just being "woke." I would disagree. 

And one could argue that it's best to just ignore such things. But I feel people of goodwill need to step up and stand up for our fellow humans.

Bending Spoons saw an opportunity to acquire a product and add it to their portfolio, almost certainly for less money than they could have had the prior owners been able to maximize its potential. They're betting that they can make that investment pay off. That's not a crime. And they sure as hell don't deserve to be smeared for that (to be clear, ethnic slurs are never deserved, though). Whether I choose to remain a customer or not (and for at least the next twelve months, I'll remain a customer), I wish them success.

As someone married to an Italian I hear that all the time. My husband is law enforcement and the amount of times I've heard a comment trying to tie him to the mob and/or corrupt law enforcement just because he's Italian is insane. We are relocating to Italy sooner rather than later and that has only increased the comments. So I thank you for taking a stand.

[Bill Myers 458]

4 minutes ago, Sayre Ambrosio said:

As someone married to an Italian I hear that all the time. My husband is law enforcement and the amount of times I've heard a comment trying to tie him to the mob and/or corrupt law enforcement just because he's Italian is insane. We are relocating to Italy sooner rather than later and that has only increased the comments. So I thank you for taking a stand.

Like all stereotypes, it's stupid. Just about every nation and ethnicity has some version of an organized crime syndicate. The Japanese have the Yakuza. The Russians have the Odessa Mafia, among other organizations. During prohibition in the U.S., the Jewish mob was particularly prominent. I could go on and on.

I have friends of many races, ethnicities, religions, sexual orientations, gender identities, and too many other things to mention. If I can't do the bare minimum by at least speaking up for them, I'm not being much a friend.

I wish you the best in your move to Italy. Moving from one nation to another is a big undertaking. 

And law enforcement is never an easy career. I have multiple friends in the field. Is your husband going to be doing that in Italy? I understand being in that job in one country doesn't automatically mean you can do it in another; they all have their own rules and requirements.

In any event, best of luck to you both. At least Evernote is cloud-based, that will be one thing you won't have to worry about when you move.

[Sayre Ambrosio 520]

1 minute ago, Bill Myers said:

Like all stereotypes, it's stupid. Just about every nation and ethnicity has some version of an organized crime syndicate. The Japanese have the Yakuza. The Russians have the Odessa Mafia, among other organizations. During prohibition in the U.S., the Jewish mob was particularly prominent. I could go on and on.

I have friends of many races, ethnicities, religions, sexual orientations, gender identities, and too many other things to mention. If I can't do the bare minimum by at least speaking up for them, I'm not being much a friend.

I wish you the best in your move to Italy. Moving from one nation to another is a big undertaking. 

And law enforcement is never an easy career. I have multiple friends in the field. Is your husband going to be doing that in Italy? I understand being in that job in one country doesn't automatically mean you can do it in another; they all have their own rules and requirements.

In any event, best of luck to you both. At least Evernote is cloud-based, that will be one thing you won't have to worry about when you move.

He's looking into medical retirement. SWAT has destroyed his knees and back. If he gets it that would be great. Either way, it's a retirement home. He has family there still and we'd like to see if we can carry on some traditions. I'm an author and web designer so I can do that from anywhere. 

I agree that Evernote will be a non issue lol. Well, as far as software goes. Now, using it to shop for houses and all the things I am going to want is an issue that my husband is not looking forward to.  

[why? 37]

10 hours ago, Federico Simionato said:

This is understandable and expected, as it represents the distillation of a vocal minority

Not sure that it's a minority. Evernote users have been unhappy with how Evernote has  been handled for a number of years. Just take a look through the forum (and other forums).

 I'm not willing to pay upfront for promises from a company that has Evernote's history of management. At the moment both Craft and Devonthink offer much better value than Evernote. With no issues on such fundamental functionality as sync. You would have been better to fix the app before raising the prices.

[bmat 5]

For those who are inclined to tinker / hack and are looking for an evernote alternative,  you should consider Obsidian.

I mostly stopped using evernote a few years back when they broke two of the main things that drew me to the app in the first place: 1) the near instantaneous ability to author or access a note on the mobile app, and 2) magical ability to capture webpages relatively cleanly across platforms.

Before this, I long struggled with evernote's interface, beyond embarrassing search, workflow, etc, but put up with this for its ability to capture and access notes.

Over the past 2+ years,  I have also dabbled with good notes, notion, notability, apple notes, liquid text, nebo, moleskine flow, devon think, coda, workflowy, todoist, typora, iawriter, etc.  basically every structured note /data app that I could think of.  What I realized from this, is that while many of these apps do a few things superlatively well, they at best support a small piece of my personal workflow, and generally fall apart hard when asked to play well with others. also, I am constantly trying to improve my workflow, which for most of these, just left a mess.  I would put evernote in its best days in this same camp.

Obsidian, by contrast, has been a revelation.  While the learning curve has been intense, and my notes definitely don't look as pretty as they could, obsidian notes are 100% text based (markdown+, html, css) and stored in a directory that is completely available to the user.  obsidian does not care if you change notes outside of its application, it continues to work with the changed notes as if they were changed in obsidian.  notes are infinitely customizable, from metadata fields to full css styling if desired, and scripting, templates, tags, search, and automations that can be applied broadly, within a note, or on a note by note basis. the environment is also customizable, with a robust ecosystem of plugins, templates, etc,  integration to 3rd party software such as zotero paper / citation manager.  well functioning apps across macos, ios, windows, etc.   The developers of obsidian also seem to be improving it at a rather rapid pace, and there is a dedicated group of users and plugin developers who are filling in gaps that the devs haven't yet sorted.

the major downside is that all this customization takes learning and tinkering. and to get the most out of it, you may want to do a fair bit of scripting.  for these reasons, obsidian is not the tool for those looking for something that "just works-" see if evernote evolves to somewhere you want to go....  but if like me, you found your way to evernote for its speed and promise of flexibility & usefulness that was never quite delivered, perhaps you will be more happy with a solution that was designed from the ground up to provide this.

I will keep an eye on Evernote as it progresses (I still have 20+k notes there), and wish the team the best in improving its capabilities, but after seeing what is possible from a faster, more customizable, and open, text based system, its  hard to see myself going back.

On a separate note, I don't get the hatred against bending spoons.  They purchased a dumpster fire, with a lot of angry die-hard users and are making a go at making it better.  The alternative was likely having evernote shut down sooner or later.  Overall, we should be happy for their efforts, even if they don't get us where we want to go. 

[WilliamL 658]

28 minutes ago, bmat said:

For those who are inclined to tinker / hack and are looking for an evernote alternative,  you should consider Obsidian.

I have toyed with obsidian too, it has a lot of handy features. The big put off for me is multi platform syncing, it’s essentially the same cost then as Evernote as the only real option is obsidian sync. iCloud will get you Apple and windows (apparently with potential sync issues on windows), I know their is an Android option too but I’m less familiar with that. On top of the difficult learning curve too I am sticking with Evernote.  I love obsidians daily notes feature and have replicated that with a weekly note in EN, using Backlinks where needed.

[mjotad 27]

6 hours ago, WilliamL said:

I have toyed with obsidian too, it has a lot of handy features. The big put off for me is multi platform syncing, it’s essentially the same cost then as Evernote as the only real option is obsidian sync. iCloud will get you Apple and windows (apparently with potential sync issues on windows), I know their is an Android option too but I’m less familiar with that. On top of the difficult learning curve too I am sticking with Evernote.  I love obsidians daily notes feature and have replicated that with a weekly note in EN, using Backlinks where needed.

For others who might be thinking of going the same route, you can achieve multi-platform syncing without paying for Obsidian sync using Syncthing, if you're willing to invest a little time and effort in setting it up. I've had no problems in syncing between two laptops, a Chromebook, a NAS, and an Android phone.

A couple of months back, in the face of no communication from Bending Spoons and no engagement from Evernote in the Linux Beta forum, I exported my notes from Evernote to Obsidian as a precautionary measure. The initial learning curve was steep, and I'm not a markdown zealot so there are things I miss from Evernote's editor, particularly the easy handling of tables. On the whole though, for my use cases, I feel as though I have gained more than I have lost.

My Evernote subscription runs until October, but at the moment I don't see myself renewing it (after ten years or so).

[WilliamL 658]

1 hour ago, mjotad said:

For others who might be thinking of going the same route, you can achieve multi-platform syncing without paying for Obsidian sync using Syncthing, if you're willing to invest a little time and effort in setting it up. I've had no problems in syncing between two laptops, a Chromebook, a NAS, and an Android phone.

A couple of months back, in the face of no communication from Bending Spoons and no engagement from Evernote in the Linux Beta forum, I exported my notes from Evernote to Obsidian as a precautionary measure. The initial learning curve was steep, and I'm not a markdown zealot so there are things I miss from Evernote's editor, particularly the easy handling of tables. On the whole though, for my use cases, I feel as though I have gained more than I have lost.

My Evernote subscription runs until October, but at the moment I don't see myself renewing it (after ten years or so).

As far as I can tell, the only sync options open to iOS users are iCloud or Obsidian Sync. So to sync beyond that it’s $8 per month, getting very close to paying for Evernote but without the web app etc that I can use here. 

[bmat 5]

14 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

As far as I can tell, the only sync options open to iOS users are iCloud or Obsidian Sync. So to sync beyond that it’s $8 per month, getting very close to paying for Evernote but without the web app etc that I can use here. 

the files sit in a visible directory structure, so presumably if you can get a directory to sync across devices, you are good to go.

I use icloud for sync and haven't noticed any problems with it.  I mainly use it on a mac, ipad, and iphone.  I am also able to use this with my pc, but windows has fallen out of my day to day, so I don't feel that I can give solid feedback on that.  I dropped android phone for iphone when apple jumped leaps and bounds ahead of the rest with cross-device interoperability, so I haven't tried there at all.

I don't personally like web apps, but I understand these are necessary for some.  these people supposedly have a solution, but who knows? Obsidian is finally on the web with Neverinstall

Given the value I get from obsidian, I would  pay monthly for sync if I had to, though I am thankful that I can instead store my files on computers and services of my choosing. 

 

[bmat 5]

2 hours ago, mjotad said:

I miss from Evernote's editor, particularly the easy handling of tables. On the whole though, for my use cases, I feel as though I have gained more than I have lost.

I initially missed WYSIWYG tables a lot, but I have slowly come around to a more database focused approach with obsidian.

direct markdown tables work fine for  small / simple tables, but quickly become challenging for  data with any length / complexity. 

when things get complex,  I try to to autogenerate tables with dataview- you can create a separate file for each row and put the column information in metadata.  dataview then enables you to manipulate the columns as a query, which I mostly prefer over manual fiddling.  dataview's successor, datacore (to be released) will supposedly let you edit the data inline as well.  dbfolders is a different take on the same. tables can also be embedded from another app.

on formatting, I love/hate obsidian's more web based approach.  using CSS, you can create a style for your whole vault (or particular pages or sections), that, once you set it up, gets automatically applied to anything you write.  this is amazing once in place, but also definitely more challenging and time consuming for the initial setup

[janndk 576]

On 5/3/2023 at 10:28 PM, Federico Simionato said:

Hello folks, nice meeting everybody! A few clarifications here:

1. To those asking when they’ll get billed: You’ll get billed with the new prices at your next plan’s renewal date (after June 1). We don’t modify renewal dates.
2. Questions about where we are focusing our development time: The vast majority of our engineering firepower is focused on fixing sync and improving important pieces of the infrastructure. The remaining engineers are working on AI features and on releasing RTE, but I can guarantee that we are not compromising on the foundational stuff to build them.

As a general point, I see some worry arising from the fact that the online discourse is pretty negative right now. This is understandable and expected, as it represents the distillation of a vocal minority. As you may have noticed, we conducted several tests before deciding on the current price change, and we are very confident that the new configuration will have a positive long-term impact on Evernote and our ability to invest in innovation and product improvements.

Nice to hear from Bending Spoons ...after half a year in silence (although apparently with some secret tests happening in the background?).

Don't know what "improving important pieces of the infrastructure" actually refers to, but I hope it means your team is fixing bugs? Unfortunately at least one "improving" has gone backwards, as PDF export is now both downgraded and broken 😭
 

Evernote irritating bugs and defects:

In general

• when emailing notes with pics, the pics are too big. If picture is resized in note, it's scaled wrong
• when emailing notes checkboxlist converts to bulletlist and 'strikethrough' (checked list items) formatting disappears

Windows

• wrong time format (am/pm insted of 24) in calendar
• content shifted to left, partly outside the page, when exporting to pdf (OK when printing)
• missing flag/dates/etc in tasks when exporting note as pdf (OK when printing)
• cutting text in page shift when printed (was OK when exporting pdf, but now there is new pdf-problems!)
• note wide tables missing parts when printing (was OK when exporting pdf, but now there is new pdf-problems!)
• note link previews not working when exporting to pdf (OK when printing)
• pdfs export in image format
• line on the top when printing a note

Android

• android task widget not syncing (unless EN is opened)
• can't add flag/date/etc in tasks via andoid widget
• EN app camera: very limited functions (just one pic size/ratio)

[Scottcp36 2]

Yeah i'm gonna be cancelling... Insane price increase! And i didnt even really need the paid account, just did it to support a tool i found useful mostly.  But not if theyre gonna price gouge me!

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

On 4/28/2023 at 5:17 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

On 4/28/2023 at 2:02 PM, Reuven said:

Dave-In Decatur, you are naively optimistic. The announcement states that renewing customers will see an increase at the end of May... I hope I am wrong, but am afraid that instead of paying $70 we will see a $130 bill

@Reuven, I will try to remember to report back here in June. My billing date is my billing date; there is no indication that they will reach in for more after it has passed--at least that's how I read it. If my price doesn't go up, will you call me a realistic sage instead? 

My Professional subscription renewed today for the same $100 it had been, so evidently having a mid-May renewal date did indeed allow me to avoid the increase for this year, giving me a year to see whether $170 will still seem worth it. Naive optimists of the world, unite!

[lindseywaugh 0]

I’ve been an Evernote paid user for at least a decade, but this most recent price increase may be more than I’m willing to pay. It will make it the most expensive app on my phone. I was excited when they introduced tasks and willing to pay more for it, because I thought it could replace Todoist for me, but it was too slow to be valuable. (I’m curious to know if it improved sinking has helped this but not interested in switching over again). There are other options and this pricing is as if there aren’t. 

[CalS 5,292]

I left EN in late 2021, rolled my own solution which is finely tuned to my my use case now.  I have been returning to the forums to see if anything was happening with speed and local notebooks in V10.  Speed appears to be mostly handled other than the clunky UI (if you are search centric).  I wasn't optimistic but I thought if local notebooks ever returned I might come back.  This price increase would off put me to return even if local notebooks did.  Shame.  Priced off the island.

[l0nEr 7]

im quite interested in obsidian AI writing plugins, but they seem to be quite a drain on my openai credits so far. Afterall, would love to use my EN database to write stuff via AI...
very very steep learning curve on obsidian.
and facing some problems moving EN's notes over, especially those with PDF files. any good ideas how to migrate them effecively? 

Thanks!
 

[CF12 0]

Exactly. I got a 50% increase and received an email today, May 29 2023, that stated a price increase was coming on May 5th with all these new bells and whistles, but they’ll notify us before the increase LOL! The increase already happened. And 50%??  Are you kidding me??  That is an egregious move!

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

29 minutes ago, l0nEr said:

im quite interested in obsidian AI writing plugins, but they seem to be quite a drain on my openai credits so far. Afterall, would love to use my EN database to write stuff via AI...
very very steep learning curve on obsidian.
and facing some problems moving EN's notes over, especially those with PDF files. any good ideas how to migrate them effecively? 

Thanks!
 

In fairness, this is a thread about the price increases and people's responses to them. Switching to Obsidian is one such response. But asking technical questions about how to do so might get more responses in a new thread.

[NightStalker 407]

When I called Bending Spoons "greedy", it's due to my other experience with them.

One of my other interests is smartphone videography, and the 3rd party app of choice among smartphone videographers has been an app called Filmic Pro.  It has been the de facto standard for use in making more complex videos than just the usual holiday snaps-type videos.

It was a paid app, for a few bucks, pretty much in line with the better class of App Store apps for an iPhone.  Had a huge following.

Bending Spoons bought Filmic Pro a few months ago, and switched it to not just a subscription model (there's no server use etc required - it's purely a local app) but at OUTRAGEOUSLY jacked-up prices.  Like $AUD150 a year.  For a phone app.  Way above even Adobe levels of "out of touchness".  And we know what the majority think of subscription plans.  For something like Evernote, where we're also paying for server space (similar to Dropbox etc), I don't have a problem paying a subscription model.  But not for a phone app.

The result is people have been dumping Filmic Pro in droves, and luckily, there is a superb alternative in the "buy it once" category that is as advanced as Filmic Pro, called Cinema P3, which needless to say has now become very popular.

I suspect Bending Spoons is one of those companies that just buys other peoples' ideas, IP, and products, milks them until they don't cough up any more, then dumps them.  I'm not aware of any actual products they've created themselves.

Like others in here, I've been an Evernote user since it started (about 2008 I think it was), and have tried pretty much every alternative out there - and none of them are anywhere near as good as Evernote was at its peak.  But now the current version has no sync on command with an icon showing you it's syncing, my v10 doesn't seem to download notes locally for offline use at all on either my Macs or my iOS devices, takes ages to download any note, doesn't seem to have OCR any more that works on PDFs, images, etc...  It is on the downhill slide.  And I don't know what to jump onto as a replacement.

I used to recommend it to everyone, almost evangelically, but now I've stopped even mentioning it when asked about note-taking, database-style, "second-brain" type apps.  Doesn't even rate a mention.  And I wonder how long before Bending Spoons will milk it dry with ridiculous price increases then dump it?

[Bill Myers 458]

8 hours ago, NightStalker said:

When I called Bending Spoons "greedy", it's due to my other experience with them.

I love how you conveniently left out that you called them "the greedy Italian mob" (emphasis mine). And don't bother editing your original comment, I already quoted that in a prior post.

I don't care what your experience with Bending Spoons has been. There is no justification for using ethnic slurs. Not ever. Period, paragraph and end of story. If you're the sort of person who believes your anger over mobile app pricing justifies smearing an entire people with a vicious stereotype, you would be well-served to engage in some self-reflection. I doubt you will, but you would be well-served by it.

8 hours ago, NightStalker said:

I suspect Bending Spoons is one of those companies that just buys other peoples' ideas, IP, and products, milks them until they don't cough up any more, then dumps them.

 

8 hours ago, NightStalker said:

And I wonder how long before Bending Spoons will milk it dry with ridiculous price increases then dump it?

I also love how you predict Bending Spoons will do something and then offer as evidence... your own prediction that they'll do it. That's called circular reasoning and it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I used to sell software for a living back when the dominant model was to pay for perpetual licenses. People seem to forget that back then companies would "sunset" older versions of software to force customers to upgrade. The justification was that it cost money to support older versions of software, and I suspect there's some truth to that. But the fact is that software developers are profit-driven enterprises. If people pay once for a product and then buy nothing else, eventually the developer's revenue dries up. That's not a sustainable business model.

I personally don't mind subscription software. I find there is an advantage to receiving patches and upgrades automatically. I do feel certain companies are charging perhaps more than is reasonable. I'm free not to pay their prices. Their overall success or failure, though, will be determined by market forces and not me personally. I'm OK with that.

If you feel that Bending Spoons is charging too much for something then by all means do business with someone else. That's the beauty of a free market.

If Bending Spoons' pricing is out of whack with the market, that market will punish them for it. You don't need to worry about doing that all on your own with angry posts in a user forum.

As for expressing hate for an entire group of people because you're upset about mobile apps, that's just nuts. If you can't see that, I feel badly for you.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

@NightStalker, I appreciate your relating your history with Bending Spoons, and it does raise some not unreasonable concern. I think that Evernote probably has a larger and more diverse user base than Filmic Pro (including, we are told, the head of BenSpoo), which hopefully will save it from getting just dumped. I'm waiting to see, though.

8 hours ago, NightStalker said:

Like others in here, I've been an Evernote user since it started (about 2008 I think it was), and have tried pretty much every alternative out there - and none of them are anywhere near as good as Evernote was at its peak.  But now the current version has no sync on command with an icon showing you it's syncing, my v10 doesn't seem to download notes locally for offline use at all on either my Macs or my iOS devices, takes ages to download any note, doesn't seem to have OCR any more that works on PDFs, images, etc...  It is on the downhill slide.  And I don't know what to jump onto as a replacement.

Meanwhile, a couple of thoughts on these issues. The sync button is no longer needed or useful, since syncing is happening all the time, especially with the new sync model that began early in May. It would be a buggy whip on an electric car. V. 10 definitely keeps a local notes database on desktop devices (so maybe not iOS). In settings, look for something like "Keep a copy on this device" and make sure it's checked. Notes are taking longer to appear just now (see the many threads on this in the forums) because they must first be converted to the new sync structure, and it can take from a few seconds to, well, a lot of seconds. OCR is definitely still working on PDFs and images (to make them searchable for text they contain). If that's not happening, it's an issue to raise with support (https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/requests/new).

[Bill Myers 458]

BTW, I should clarify something just because there's very little that can't be misconstrued by those with a tendency to misconstrue things. I think criticism of Evernote and Bending Spoons is fair game in a user forum. As I've said in a prior post, good companies pay attention to user feedback across all available channels. It's just this over-the-top anger that I can't understand.

I actually have had questions myself about whether Bending Spoons is pricing itself out of the market. I just don't feel the need to decide that for myself. I'll decide what I will or won't pay. The larger market will decide the company's overall success or failure.

[Bill Myers 458]

3 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

@NightStalker, I appreciate your relating your history with Bending Spoons, and it does raise some not unreasonable concern. I think that Evernote probably has a larger and more diverse user base than Filmic Pro (including, we are told, the head of BenSpoo), which hopefully will save it from getting just dumped. I'm waiting to see, though.

I don't mean to pick fights because I think you are one of the most reasonable voices in this forum... but I don't think using anger over app pricing to justify an ethnic slur (while conveniently omitting the fact that an ethnic slur was used) is ever "reasonable." I think it's the very definition of "unreasonable." So I can't join you in your appreciation for @NightStalker.

I also would point out that without a history of Bending Spoons "milking and dumping" products (I did a little web research and couldn't find anything about Bending Spoons ever having done this), I'm not sure where a concern about this is coming from. Scaring oneself with nothing but one's own prediction as evidence to support one's fear is like a dog chasing its tail.

Here's the thing: I did some web research about Filmic Pro. When Bending Spoons acquired the product they did radically alter its price structure. There was some negative feedback that I saw, but without any solid data I can't say whether they lost a significant amount of market share over the move or if their competitors gained it. It's possible they're pricing it out of the market. I just don't know, and I don't think any of us can know that just yet.

I do wonder if Bending Spoons is pricing Evernote out of the market. It's now the most expensive app in its category that I'm aware of, by far. I think that might've been the case even before Bending Spoons raised the prices. And based on what I know of the competition I have to question whether the market at large will perceive enough value to sustain Evernote at this pricing. if not, that would be a bummer. I'd hate to see the Evernote product go belly up, because I like using it.

But like I said in earlier posts, I've already placed my bet. I'm signed up for 12 months. So I'm not going to sweat this. I still like Evernote better than the competition, warts and all. I'll hope for the best, but with a contingency plan if things go south.

As for @NightStalker, I'm sorry but I'm not letting the "Italian mob" remark go. I think the decent thing to do would be for them to admit their error and apologize, rather than coming back here and trying to pretend they didn't say such a thing or acting as though it's justifiable. As I said before I think the least we can all do is stand up for our fellow humans. Nothing -- and I mean NOTHING -- about app pricing justifies a hateful remark. 

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

9 minutes ago, Bill Myers said:

I don't mean to pick fights because I think you are one of the most reasonable voices in this forum... but I don't think using anger over app pricing to justify an ethnic slur (while conveniently omitting the fact that an ethnic slur was used) is ever "reasonable." I think it's the very definition of "unreasonable." So I can't join you in your appreciation for @NightStalker.

Well, but you are picking one. I decline to participate. I did not mention the ethnic slur or say it was reasonable, did I? (I agree that it was unacceptable--although "mob" can just mean "crowd" or "group"; but it's up to @NightStalker to explain). I only mentioned what seemed to me a reasonable point based on the personal experience of the one making it. That's all.

[Bill Myers 458]

32 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Well, but you are picking one. I decline to participate. I did not mention the ethnic slur or say it was reasonable, did I? (I agree that it was unacceptable--although "mob" can just mean "crowd" or "group"; but it's up to @NightStalker to explain).

Fair enough. I'm disappointed that I seem to be the only one who feels a need to call this out, but it's not up to me to decide how other people respond to something. And I've got enough life experience to recognize when I'm just swimming against the tide. I think it would be best for this thread to carry on without me. I'll just wish everyone the best and leave it there.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

56 minutes ago, Bill Myers said:

Fair enough. I'm disappointed that I seem to be the only one who feels a need to call this out, but it's not up to me to decide how other people respond to something. And I've got enough life experience to recognize when I'm just swimming against the tide. I think it would be best for this thread to carry on without me. I'll just wish everyone the best and leave it there.

Please don't go! I actually appreciate your willingness to stand up, though it takes us off-topic (which I think may be why that subject wasn't pursued). There are forum policies, and violations can be reported for the actual mods to consider. Perhaps it needed to be said; it's not going any further; so here we are.

[agsteele 2,978]

1 hour ago, Bill Myers said:

Fair enough. I'm disappointed that I seem to be the only one who feels a need to call this out, but it's not up to me to decide how other people respond to something. And I've got enough life experience to recognize when I'm just swimming against the tide. I think it would be best for this thread to carry on without me. I'll just wish everyone the best and leave it there.

I was grateful that you challenged the individual. 

[Bill Myers 458]

1 hour ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Please don't go!

LOL! I appreciate you. But -- I don't want to keep repeating myself either. Bending Spoons has increased subscription pricing for Evernote. People are either comfortable with that or they're not. If they're not, I don't think they should pay it. If people are unhappy enough that they want to leave for another product they should absolutely do that.

I'm one of those people who doesn't think Evernote is perfect, but I like it enough to stick around. I hope the product sticks around so I can do that. 

 

[Bill Myers 458]

1 hour ago, agsteele said:

I was grateful that you challenged the individual.

Thanks. I guess the reason I brought it up again is that they came back and didn't address the remark. I felt a need -- rightly or wrongly -- to say something about that.

The thing is, in fairness to @Dave-in-Decatur, the experience @NightStalker relayed with Filmic Pro is interesting (and it's unfortunate therefore that @NightStalker couldn't see fit to decouple it from the slur). I did some web research and everything I learned is consistent with what this poster stated. At one time, Filmic Pro was offered as a perpetual license. Bending Spoons changed it to a subscription model and it appears the price increase was steep. There was some online chatter about this, but I don't think that is always an accurate barometer of market sentiment. People like me who enjoy posting on forums like this are not the norm (ahem). There was also some confusion about the pricing, and whether Bending Spoons was actually honoring the advertised pricing. I can't verify whether that's the case because Filmic Pro is not a product I would use, so I'm not going to attempt to subscribe to it just to scratch an itch for knowledge.

I actually have concerns as I stated above that Bending Spoons might be pricing Evernote out of the market. But I cannot and will not say that is due to "greed." I don't know their cost structure or what they need in order to make Evernote appropriately profitable. I'm not going to make a moral judgement because I lack the basis to do so. 

As I've stated before, I'm just hoping Bending Spoons does well with Evernote. It wouldn't be catastrophic if I had to change to another note-taking app, but it would be annoying. I'm actually trying to learn how to leverage the solution more, and not less. And I have tried a couple other solutions that didn't bang a gong for me.

[janndk 576]

13 hours ago, NightStalker said:

I suspect Bending Spoons is one of those companies that just buys other peoples' ideas, IP, and products, milks them until they don't cough up any more, then dumps them.  I'm not aware of any actual products they've created themselves.

Bending Spoons gives an impression that they create their own products. But that's maybe not true?

[eric99 1,022]

52 minutes ago, janndk said:

Bending Spoons gives an impression that they create their own products. But that's maybe not true?

Well, you could say that of many large companies that have acquired innovative startups to gain expertise in a specific domain. But from that moment on it is part of the company and they can say that it is their own development.

[Bill Myers 458]

1 hour ago, janndk said:

Bending Spoons gives an impression that they create their own products. But that's maybe not true?

According to this article, they've developed more than 20 apps:

https://www.morningfuture.com/en/2020/11/13/bending-spoons-immuni-start-up/

Also -- it doesn't seem as though they make a secret when they acquire a product. They issued press releases when they acquired Filmic Pro and Evernote, for example.

[janndk 576]

6 minutes ago, Bill Myers said:

According to this article, they've developed more than 20 apps:

https://www.morningfuture.com/en/2020/11/13/bending-spoons-immuni-start-up/

Also -- it doesn't seem as though they make a secret when they acquire a product. They issued press releases when they acquired Filmic Pro and Evernote, for example.

"...Bending Spoons has developed over 20 Apps that have been downloaded more than 340 million times, have 12 million users and generated revenues of over 90 million euro in 2019 with an international team of 150. One of its best known Apps is 30 Day Fitness, providing home workouts with video tutorials, the Splice video editing suite for smartphones and LiveQuiz, a very popular quiz App where you can win small cash prizes."

I thought Splice was originally made by GoPro?

[Boot17 1,490]

2 hours ago, janndk said:

I thought Splice was originally made by GoPro?

I think GoPro has a different app also called Splice.

This GoPro Splice page https://projectgo.pro/gopro-splice-app/ links to an iOS app called "GoPro Quick". GoPro's Android app is called "Splice" and Bending Spoons Android app is called "Splice - Video Editor & Maker"

I found something from AppAdvice that seems to link Bending Spoons to Splice as far back as Mar 2016. (So even if they weren't the original developers (I have no idea) -- it's long enough to consider it theirs either way I guess.)

Edit:

That AppAdvice screenshot may be false information -- can't find my source now.

This from a Tweet from GoPro on 12/23/2018:

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Boot17

[PinkElephant 8,284]

Splice was originally created by GoPro. And this was great, because it was available for free, and worked as video-editor, on non GoPro footage as well. Then GoPro lost interest in offering this editor app, and decided to sell it off. Remember, it was a free product, but with a solid engine and a user base.

BS acquired it and switched over to a subscription model. This was economically necessary - GoPro had funded the project with income from their hardware business. But they developed it further as well, so it was not milking the cow without taking care for it. Splice has from my observation established itself on iOS as one of the more solid, innovative video editors. The pricing is not out of range, different developers run different price models, as they are free to do. 

GoPro is back with a video app called Quick.

[Boot17 1,490]

28 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Splice was originally created by GoPro.

Funnily enough, it looks like GoPro acquired Splice from someone else and didn't develop the original product either: https://appadvice.com/appnn/2016/03/gopro-acquires-two-ios-video-apps-replay-and-splice

Quote

[March 1, 2016] GoPro, the folks behind the action camera of the same name, is hoping to bolster its company’s offerings through acquiring two prominent iOS video-editing applications. The apps, Replay and Splice, are both free to download on the App Store and seem to remaining in place for now.

 

[NightStalker 407]

OK - I have to respond to the slurs about me, mainly by Bill Myers.

First, my use of the expression "Italian mob" is a statement of fact.  It is not a slur, and has never been intended as one.  In Australia, where I am, a mob is any group of people (or sheep, kangaroos, cattle, etc).  It means a group, a collective.  Bending Spoons is exactly that.

And who are you to assume I intended an ethnic slur by calling them Italian?  They ARE Italian..!  It was a statement of indisputable fact.  I didn't use any pejorative terms for their nationality - I used the name of their nationality.  Exactly the same as if I'd called them an Australian mob, an American mob, or a Ukrainian mob.

You set yourself up as a woke arbiter of what YOU think other people have said.  I say - get off your high horse, stop implying slurs where none exist, and stick to the point of the discussion.

 

[PinkElephant 8,284]

@NightStalker The mob, in relation to Italy or Italians is quite broadly used as a synonym for the Mafia, Cosa Nostra, or whatever you want to call them. Organized crime, of whatever flavor. Either you knew this, or you have learned it now. So instead of playing it down, I think it would be the better approach to avoid wordings with meanings that can easily be misunderstood.

Apart from this it is not important that BS is an Italian company. They are acting and marketing their apps (most of them) on the international market, so they already play on the same turf as EN. And since they were able to acquire EN, the writing on the wall tells they have been more successful than EN with their activities.

What I like in general with European companies holding my data is that GDRP applies. In this respect BS being Italian is a positive sign for data security and privacy.

[NightStalker 407]

Fair point about the GDRP being an advantage.

But if I'd wanted to refer to the Mafia, I would have used a capital M for Mob.  I didn't, and the word 'mob' remains, at least here in Australia, a generic term for any collective or group of animals or people. 

If I'd referred to the creators of Spark Mail, PDF Expert, etc as a Ukrainian mob - it still would have been accurate, and statement of fact.

Geez - the winds of political correctness have blown into this forum since I first came here donkey's years ago.  Or are you not familiar with that Australian expression either?

Back to the main point of the discussion - increasing the subscription prices, especially by so much, surely has to be almost a net-zero game?  The increased pricing might cover the loss of income due to those who find the new prices too high and leave.  Obviously, that's a generalisation, but I would have thought that a very small increase, with people much more likely to suck it up and stay on board, would have produced a more reliable increase in company income?  And of course, BS need to get everything they buy to generate more income so they can buy yet more companies and IP.  That seems to be their business model.

 

 

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

55 minutes ago, NightStalker said:

Back to the main point of the discussion - increasing the subscription prices, especially by so much, surely has to be almost a net-zero game?  The increased pricing might cover the loss of income due to those who find the new prices too high and leave.  Obviously, that's a generalisation, but I would have thought that a very small increase, with people much more likely to suck it up and stay on board, would have produced a more reliable increase in company income?...

To this specific point, it's been observed (earlier in this long, winding thread, I believe) that Evernote did not raise its prices for years, since 2016 in fact. I would agree that a series of small increases over those years would have made much more sense, especially if there had been accompanying improvements in features and performance. But that latter all came in one large but slow-moving lump with the introduction of v. 10 and its gradual entry into the realm of usability (for most people, not all). Now it seems reasonable to raise the prices correspondingly--in one large but very rapidly moving lump, which has caused a lot of pain. All in all, not well managed over a period of years, IMHO. Like the old story about cooking frogs in a pot--raise it a degree at a time and they'll all boil contentedly.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

PS. - Looking forward to traveling to Adelaide for a conference in July (and some days of touring afterward) -- will be in the midst of a mob of religion scholars. 

[Bill Myers 458]

2 hours ago, NightStalker said:

You set yourself up as a woke arbiter of what YOU think other people have said.  I say - get off your high horse, stop implying slurs where none exist, and stick to the point of the discussion.

I'll take you at your word that this was a cultural misunderstanding and for that much, I apologize. But Bending Spoons' country of origin isn't important to this discussion and I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring it up. We know they're an Italy-based company but it has no bearing on their pricing.

[NightStalker 407]

32 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

PS. - Looking forward to traveling to Adelaide for a conference in July (and some days of touring afterward) -- will be in the midst of a mob of religion scholars. 

Ahh - the Aussie religious mob....

 

[janndk 576]

1 hour ago, Bill Myers said:

I'll take you at your word that this was a cultural misunderstanding and for that much, I apologize. But Bending Spoons' country of origin isn't important to this discussion and I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring it up. We know they're an Italy-based company but it has no bearing on their pricing.

As I understand it, Bending Spoons is an Italian and Polish owned company. And the country of origin is actually Denmark.

[Bill Myers 458]

12 hours ago, janndk said:

As I understand it, Bending Spoons is an Italian and Polish owned company. And the country of origin is actually Denmark.

I was speaking in shorthand in hopes of finding an off-ramp from this topic. Not because I'm ashamed of anything I've posted -- I'm not -- but because I think this has gone well past the point of being remotely productive.

Bending Spoons is headquartered in Milan, Italy. That's what I meant by their "country of origin." But you're right. The company was founded in 2013 in Copenhagen, Denmark. According to this web site, it was founded by four Italian engineers and one Polish designer:

https://viewdifferent.io/portfolio/bending-spoons/

I'm going to take @NightStalker at face value when they say they didn't mean to imply that Bending Spoons is tied to organized crime. But calling them a "greedy Italian mob" (accepting that @NightStalker simply meant by that "a group of Italian people") implies there is something about being Italian that has anything to do with their business practices. Beyond the fact that we don't know the nationality of everyone who works at Bending Spoons, it is utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand. I would've hoped that in 2023 we'd have demonstrated that we were beyond a need to label people in such a fashion, but here we are.

If voicing my feelings about this makes me "woke," I'll wear that label proudly. I'd rather stick to my values than to be liked by everyone. I'm happy to risk being booted from the forum if that's the price I need to pay for not keeping silent about this.

If anything useful has come out of this flap, it's that it has prompted me to learn more about Bending Spoons. It appears they are considered by many to be one of Italy's premier technology company's, and actually pretty renowned beyond Italy's borders. They've accomplished a lot. I have a better understanding of how Evernote fits into their business model. Rather than seeing them as an "Italian mob," I see them as a group of people organized into a company with an entrepreneurial spirit. If their business model is mainly to acquire apps, develop them further and make money off of that, more power to them. I have no idea why that would be seen as inherently shady or greedy. Microsoft does it all the time.

Moreover, I don't know where this fear that they will "dump" Evernote comes from. As far as I know, Bending Spoons is not a private equity firm. I'm unaware of them selling any of the apps they've acquired. I'm not sure how they could do it by "milking" them (i.e. price gouging) anyway. If Bending Spoons drives too many users away, what company would then want to acquire Evernote?

If by "dump" someone means they'll just kill Evernote, that makes even less sense. They're pouring money and resources into sync, RTE, AI and other features and functionalities. How would they recoup their investment if they just killed the product in the near term?

Again, it all comes down to this: Evernote's new pricing is now public. If you find it unacceptably high, or you don't like Bending Spoons' business practices, or whatever, you can leave Evernote for another product. Or you can stay with Evernote and be miserable, and express that here. I don't know why anyone would take that option but it's not my life to live.

Anyway, I've probably said more than enough. I stand by everything I've posted but I feel like nothing I've written requires further buttressing. If someone else would prefer to have the last word, they're welcome to it. Take care, all. Hopefully the next time I use the forum, I can focus on learning more about Evernote as I am not close to "expert" level at that.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

@Bill Myers, I'll take that last word offer. (Hope it's the last.) I'm with you on the need to speak up when we see injustice being done. But it's also unjust to interpret an expression from another culture in terms of one's own, draw conclusions from the misinterpretation, and then blame the other person. As far as I can tell, "Italian" was just meant as an adjective, not pejorative in any way. If someone had said, in more American parlance, "the Redmond gang" or "the Palo Alto bunch," would you have thought anything of it (even with the use of "gang")? I'll gladly claim "woke" myself (and ask why anyone else would want to be napping). But if I over-read something or misapply an assumption from my local cultural, I hope I can just say "sorry" without defending my error to the bitter end. And please, let's let that be the end.

[Bill Myers 458]

9 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

But if I over-read something or misapply an assumption from my local cultural, I hope I can just say "sorry" without defending my error to the bitter end. And please, let's let that be the end.

I know I promised others the last word. But upon reading your post, I have to say... I think you're right, and I was wrong. Defending things to the bitter end is one of my flaws.

@NightStalker, I'm sorry I attacked you. It was a cultural misunderstanding, but one that was exacerbated by my actions. Rather than accusing you, I could have asked you what you meant. I'll try to learn a lesson from this. Again... I'm truly sorry.

To everyone participating in or reading this thread, I apologize to all of you as well for hijacking it. 

Like I said... I know I broke my promise to let someone else have the last word... but I'm a big believer in admitting when I've been wrong. I am pretty sure I was wrong here. 

Now that I've properly (I hope) apologized, I really will let someone else have the last word if they'd like it. I'm pretty sure I've used up all the words anyway.

[NightStalker 407]

How about this for the last word?

Apology accepted, and with some relief, as I had absolutely no idea that the phrase I used could even be interpreted in any way other than the way I intended it - a bunch of folks from Italy.

Now let's just complain about the price rises, and whether or not we actually need AI in Evernote, or is it being done just to keep up with the current fad?