Why is Evernote intentionally committing data loss, and everone is ok with this?

[Farbauti 45]

Consider this:

I was using the v6 client for the longest time. In this client I was able to markup text within a code block.
I used that a lot to visually highlight important code changes (like bad code,  obsolete code or new code)

Now that I was forced to v10 client ((thanks, Bending Spoons)), code blocks cannot have any markup anymore.

So I ended up having many code snippets (20 to 40 lines of code), and I literally lost the information what the actual code change was 😠😡

 

[BLK Dragon 24]

The best you can do -- file a support ticket and hope it'll be fixed.
I've reported bug in code block formatting (emtpy lines not displayed as full-height empty lines) and still wating for something more that auto-reply.

TBH I don't expect v10 to became any more usable in those several months (while I have some EN subscription left).
I've had enough - BS didn't manage to replicate basic EN functionality in several years, so I'm just packing my things (evernote-backup) and moving to Obsidian (where I can keep markdown-formatting at least).

[Farbauti 45]

16 minutes ago, BLK Dragon said:

I've had enough - BS didn't manage to replicate basic EN functionality in several years, so I'm just packing my things (evernote-backup) and moving to Obsidian (where I can keep markdown-formatting at least).

Same here. Except that I haven't found a better successor yet. Testing all the alternatives is very tedious and takes a lot of time.
My personal challenge is that I used most of the EN functions (in Legacy v6) and it is difficult to find a suitable successor.

[gazumped 11,776]

Evernote gave 3 years' warning that v6 was no longer supported,  and it was never promoted as in any way being a coding tool.  A number of users found similar 'edge' case uses in other areas like geotagging and food,  but from the feedback received by the previous owners were never a significant enough part of the user base to justify developing a similar feature in v10.  Legacy users themselves are (we're told) less than 1% of the existing users base. 

I sympathise if you lost data,  but it wasn't 'intentional' - just a consequence of Evernote following user instructions to have a common font for all OS's: presumably what you have lost is the colours,  not the actual content.

[Razmataz 221]

40 minutes ago, gazumped said:

 Legacy users themselves are (we're told) less than 1% of the existing users base. 

Probably even less now that legacy has been switched off. 😂

So EN (and their representatives here) were right after all: a negligible user base on legacy. Q.E.D.

[Farbauti 45]

43 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Evernote gave 3 years' warning that v6 was no longer supported,  and it was never promoted as in any way being a coding tool.

So? They never warned us, what functionality will be removed forever.

And I don't use EN as a "coding tool". I use it as my knowledge management tool to record and remember certain coding tricks. My bad.

[Mishkafofer 27]

I didn't used that feature in V6 but i support general trend to return old v6 features when it possible.

[s2sailor 2,342]

37 minutes ago, Farbauti said:

So? They never warned us, what functionality will be removed forever.

They warned us that V6 was ending and there was never an indication that V10 was meant to be an exact replacement.  If any of us assumed that, then that is on us.  Folks should have been lobbying hard over those three years to get their specific use cases supported.  If Legacy functionality wasn't restored while Evernote still had it, I think it is even more unlikely that Bending Spoons will automatically add it now.  Those at Bending Spoons probably never even used Legacy, or if they did, it was certainly not to the extent that veteran users here did.  I see three options.

1. Provide specific feedback to the Evernote team on how you were using a specific function and why it would be beneficial to many

2. Get comfortable with the limitations of v10

3. Find another app that works better for you.

That said, I've heard they were working on the code block feature.  I don't know specifically what, but maybe there is some hope this will be added.  It might be a good time to provide input to feedback@evernote.com

[Dave Green 214]

59 minutes ago, Farbauti said:

I use it as my knowledge management tool to record and remember certain coding tricks

While not everything you are looking for, have you considered taking a screenshot of the highlighted code using another tool?  I think many folks use this approach to bring in documentation from other apps (diagrams of many types, mindmaps, etc.)

[Cristiano478 172]

26 minutos atrás, s2sailor disse:

.  I see three options.

1. Provide specific feedback to the Evernote team on how you were using a specific function and why it would be beneficial to many

2. Get comfortable with the limitations of v10

3. Find another app that works better for you.

 

I think the best choice is to focus on the third option.

[eric99 1,022]

If I remember correctly, EN told us that syntax highlighting will be supported in code blocks, maybe it's flexible enough for your use case?

[Farbauti 45]

14 hours ago, Dave Green said:

 have you considered taking a screenshot of the highlighted code using another tool?

No and no.

No, screenshots are not flexible enough for me.

And no, all my markups (in v6) are no longer visible/available since I was forced into v10. Even if I use screenshots in the future, all crucial information I collected over the last 10 years are already gone 😡

[PinkElephant 8,284]

What happens if you copy and paste from the code block into a markdown app.

[Feitz 212]

20 hours ago, Farbauti said:

My personal challenge is that I used most of the EN functions (in Legacy v6) and it is difficult to find a suitable successor.

There are actually two alternatives if you are on a Mac: Keep It and Eaglefiler

Keep It is like a clone to Legacy with better tag management and additional benefits (finder integration etc.)

[PinkElephant 8,284]

This is the usual self centered posting. It may be these apps do better for YOU.

Which doesn’t mean they do anything better for another user, with his own use cases. 

[Feitz 212]

15 hours ago, s2sailor said:

They warned us that V6 was ending and there was never an indication that V10 was meant to be an exact replacement

Actually the update notice in Legacy only talks of an update. The 'V10 is a completely different app' narrative has come up in the forum recently but is not what BS promoted, it was announced as a new version of Legacy (screen shot from an inactive instance of Legacy from today): 

[Feitz 212]

23 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

This is the usual self centered posting. It may be these apps do better for YOU.

Which doesn’t mean they do anything better for another user, with his own use cases.

Of course this is my opinion, like your rants are yours, which is equally obvious. 

They are definitely viable alternatives for Legacy, whether they fit anyone else is not you or me to decide.

[gazumped 11,776]

14 minutes ago, Feitz said:

(screen shot from an inactive instance of Legacy from today)

The screen shot refers to v6 not being updated,  and v10 having ongoing updates.  It does not link the two. 

Plus the history is that Legacy apps were coded (and updated) separately for each OS.  Something like 7 years ago a team was given a brief to combine all the frequently-used features of each individual app into one package and re-code that into Elektron to be able to run on any supported OS.  It began and has been developed with a completely different premise. 

Legacy and v10 are like unicorns and horses - both have a similar shape and both can be ridden.  One however is (now) unavailable so comparisons are pointless.

In the case of v10,  if a case can be made for the addition of a feature that adds value to the package,  I'd imagine that the new Evernote would be pleased to consider developing it.  If you can find that feature at lower cost in another app,  then of course you must consider using the alternative.

[s2sailor 2,342]

3 hours ago, Feitz said:

There are actually two alternatives if you are on a Mac: Keep It and Eaglefiler

I would also consider Bear and Devonthink for Mac users.

[Feitz 212]

2 hours ago, gazumped said:

The screen shot refers to v6 not being updated

I just wanted to highlight that V10 in fact is pitched as an update to V10, not an entirely different app.

>>"A new version of Evernote Legacy is available. Update to 10.78.2 to experience the latest improvements."<<

The notion that it is only came up recently in the forum when more and more deficiencies of V10 became evident.

Regarding Bear.app: beautifully simple app, but also not cross platform and no integration with finder, which made me switch to Keep It. If I didn't need finder integration Bear would have been my choice. 

[Feitz 212]

2 hours ago, gazumped said:

If you can find that feature at lower cost in another app

Even the high price of V10 is affordable if it performs well. Legacy over the last decade gave me tremendous value, V10 so far not so much. 

[s2sailor 2,342]

3 hours ago, Feitz said:

Actually the update notice in Legacy only talks of an update

Those are only release notes. I was referring to the information that was available during the three+ year runway that Legacy had.  It has been a while so I don’t recall the specifics. The information may not have been spoon fed to us but there was plenty available for those that looked a little.  Evernote is an important app to me and when I first upgraded to v10 and learned how terrible it was at that time I followed the development then to see if it would improve enough for me to use or if I would need to find an alternative.  I have little sympathy for those that waited until the very end and then stated they were “forced” to upgrade and were surprised by some change in their data.  The red warning banners in the v6 app gave ample warning to figure this out before the lights were shut off.

[s2sailor 2,342]

17 minutes ago, Feitz said:

The notion that it is only came up recently in the forum when more and more deficiencies of V10 became evident.

This was evident when the first v6 to v10 “upgrade” occurred.  The first v10 version was no upgrade and calling it that was IMO a mistake. 

[Razmataz 221]

2 hours ago, s2sailor said:

The first v10 version was no upgrade and calling it that was IMO a mistake. 

So, what term would have been more appropriate, then? Downgrade, perhaps?

[PinkElephant 8,284]

The first releases of v10 were incomplete, and it was communicated that some features will be added in the course of the next months.

This they did, and from roughly 10.20 the features they wanted to move from legacy were more or less done. With Home and Tasks v10 started to go beyond of what legacy ever had.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

On 4/10/2024 at 12:49 PM, Farbauti said:

So? They never warned us, what functionality will be removed forever.

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047889234-What-s-new-in-Evernote-for-Windows, scroll down to "What features are no longer supported in the new app?" Posted at least 2 years ago.

[PinkElephant 8,284]

Actually it was originally posted in October 2020, right when the new app was released, and legacy deprecated.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

11 hours ago, Feitz said:

Actually the update notice in Legacy only talks of an update. The 'V10 is a completely different app' narrative has come up in the forum recently but is not what BS promoted, it was announced as a new version of Legacy (screen shot from an inactive instance of Legacy from today

8 hours ago, Feitz said:

I just wanted to highlight that V10 in fact is pitched as an update to V10, not an entirely different app.

>>"A new version of Evernote Legacy is available. Update to 10.78.2 to experience the latest improvements."<<

The notion that it is only came up recently in the forum when more and more deficiencies of V10 became evident

As long as you don't read past the first line. I hope the highlighting will be helpful:

 

[Feitz 212]

8 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

As long as you don't read past the first line. I hope the highlighting will be helpful:

Ah, darn, I never read past the first line or two 😉

But that note only talks about added features, not dropping important ones and being a different app altogether. Anyway...

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

"New client." Says it 4 times. As for notification of dropped features, see the immediately preceding couple of posts. Frankly, if I had been in charge of Evernote's notification of what wasn't going to work in 2020, I would need a psychiatrist, since so many people seemed to think I was making it up, or that I could be ignored.

[mackid1993 991]

Didn't the old team get death threats for changing a font or something?

[Farbauti 45]

9 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047889234-What-s-new-in-Evernote-for-Windows, scroll down to "What features are no longer supported in the new app?" Posted at least 2 years ago.

LOL
You're referring to this measly list of 5 bullet points?
There are about 1000 more features "no longer supported".

Where does it actually state that markups inside code blocks are no longer supported? Please show me @Dave-in-Decatur !

 

[gazumped 11,776]

Still flogging a dead unicorn?

The old Evernote web was marginally usable in which ever of the three versions you tried.  All of them were - in various degrees - different from Evernote Windows,  Mac,  Android and iOS which all had own specific features unique to that OS.

None of those variations are 'coming back' - the staff that decided almost 10 years ago that so few subscribers were actively using some features that they would not be included in the new application have left the building.  

v10 is a new stand-alone application that has its own specific benefits and challenges.  Build on what you have - the past is not coming back.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

9 hours ago, Farbauti said:

There are about 1000 more features "no longer supported".

Please list them all. If you run out after 50, we'll understand.

[Feitz 212]

22 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

"New client." Says it 4 times.

In my understanding a new client doesn't necessarily mean altered / dropped features, but obviously your understanding is different. 

[gazumped 11,776]

Hmmn.  After the Mona Lisa,  Leonardo began a new painting that did not use the same subject....

[Razmataz 221]

32 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Hmmn.  After the Mona Lisa,  Leonardo began a new painting that did not use the same subject....

This is an interesting analogy. The Mona Lisa is masterpiece, world famous and everybody knows it. The new painting, however, …

Or did I misunderstand your analogy?

[janndk 576]

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

Hmmn.  After the Mona Lisa,  Leonardo began a new painting that did not use the same subject....

New owners fired Leonardo and his team. So now there is a new team of creative painters:

Sorry - I just couldn't resist 😁 This is from Canva AI, keywords: "Mona Lisa in Bending Spoons' style". Actually describing the current situation quite well. Mona Lisa combined with a new painting (Last Supper?), but maybe some challenges with painting skills/quality. 🤔

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,985]

You know this is just becoming so hateful and lacking in any real thoughtfulness (starting with the subject of the thread), I'm done. Free-fire zone, @Razmataz, @Feitz, @Farbauti.

[marvelway 12]

On 4/10/2024 at 9:03 AM, gazumped said:

...I sympathise if you lost data,  but it wasn't 'intentional' - just a consequence of Evernote following user instructions to have a common font for all OS's: presumably what you have lost is the colours,  not the actual content.

No, we lost all styling, such as italics, highlights, strikethroughs, etc.

I recently switched to the new version, and made the same discovery as Farbauti. We can no longer style text in code blocks. Before, I would highlight, change the color, italicize, etc, sections in code. Now it's no longer possible and all my styling is gone

In Notion, we can style code (bold, italicize, underline, strikeout, highlight, change color) and even add comments. (Not to mention there's code formatting and syntax highlighting).

[PinkElephant 8,284]

Then you know where to go. Farewell.

(Can anybody explain to me where the logic behind this repetitive argument is: I want something - I know where to get it - but I don’t take it where available, I rather post nonsensical stuff to get it elsewhere.)

[marvelway 12]

15 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Then you know where to go. Farewell.

(Can anybody explain to me where the logic behind this repetitive argument is: I want something - I know where to get it - but I don’t take it where available, I rather post nonsensical stuff to get it elsewhere.)

Lol. Why are you always so needlessly combative. 

Obviously I do use Notion. I also use Evernote. As a paying customer, I'm stating that I'd like Evernote to implement this. Especially when they did in Legacy and removed the ability in v10 as well as removing all previous text formatting. It's not nonsensical to mention what is available elsewhere and expected by customers. In fact, it works bc apparently Evernote will finally add code syntax highlighting (which is a common standard in note taking apps) which was requested and discussed on this forum. 

[PinkElephant 8,284]

Did you use the „Change Tone“ function of the AI Edit feature ? Sounds like, really helpful, isn’t it

As you may know by now, the forum is user2user. So maybe you use the newfound constructive sound to send your request at

feedback@Evernote.com

[Jon/t 1,378]

Evernote has never been able to do syntax highlighting but it is coming at some point. 

[mackid1993 991]

I mean if you need syntax highlighting attach your source file to a note and open it in your IDE right from Evernote. Syntax highlighting would be nice but this isn't data loss, it's data conversion that stripped some metadata to work in the new program. Data loss would imply the code snippet is missing entirely. If syntax highlighting is important use a tool dedicated to writing and storing code, not Evernote. 

[marvelway 12]

28 minutes ago, mackid1993 said:

I mean if you need syntax highlighting attach your source file to a note and open it in your IDE right from Evernote. Syntax highlighting would be nice but this isn't data loss, it's data conversion that stripped some metadata to work in the new program. Data loss would imply the code snippet is missing entirely. If syntax highlighting is important use a tool dedicated to writing and storing code, not Evernote. 

No, I'm not talking about syntax highlighting. I'm talking about text formatting that I personally added to code blocks, such as underlines, strikeouts, bolds, etc. Those no longer appear in v10. 

3 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Did you use the „Change Tone“ function of the AI Edit feature ? Sounds like, really helpful, isn’t it

As you may know by now, the forum is user2user. So maybe you use the newfound constructive sound to send your request at

feedback@Evernote.com

?? um no idea what you're talking about.

This post is about lost formatting in code blocks, so I'm commiserating with OP's experience bc I've experienced the same thing, and also sharing info about this with others who may stumble on this thread. 

[mackid1993 991]

8 minutes ago, marvelway said:

No, I'm not talking about syntax highlighting. I'm talking about text formatting that I personally added to code blocks, such as underlines, strikeouts, bolds, etc. Those no longer appear in v10. 

It's no longer supported.

[marvelway 12]

6 minutes ago, mackid1993 said:

It's no longer supported.

yes, that is why OP and I are unhappy

[gazumped 11,776]

6 minutes ago, mackid1993 said:

It's no longer supported.

Wasn't aware it ever was - the thing about a code block is that it's plain text.  No formatting.  Anyway - if your original information is gone,  and there's no way to recover it from the current architecture,  what are you expecting Evernote to do?

Many of us have exploited unexpected loopholes in app features for our own purposes,  but unless the feature is part of the overall specifications,  there's no comeback if that loophole changes when the code is updated.

[marvelway 12]

12 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Wasn't aware it ever was - the thing about a code block is that it's plain text.  No formatting.  Anyway - if your original information is gone,  and there's no way to recover it from the current architecture,  what are you expecting Evernote to do?

Many of us have exploited unexpected loopholes in app features for our own purposes,  but unless the feature is part of the overall specifications,  there's no comeback if that loophole changes when the code is updated.

I can still add text formatting to code blocks in Legacy, and I can still see text formatting in code blocks in Legacy. 

I'd love for Evernote to re-add this. But yeah, probably not happening any time soon, if ever. I'll be using Notion for code snippets from now on, since they support text formatting in code blocks (as well as syntax highlighting and code formatting). 

[gazumped 11,776]

1 minute ago, marvelway said:

I'll be using Notion for code snippets from now on, since they support text formatting in code blocks

Ironically,  so will Evernote (allegedly) "soon"...

[marvelway 12]

3 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Ironically,  so will Evernote (allegedly) "soon"...

yeah, I've seen the comments about Evernote's upcoming syntax highlighting. I don't know if they'll re-add text formatting though. But if they do, I'll be a happy camper. 

Overall, I've been happy with Evernote's improvements. 

[Farbauti 45]

9 hours ago, marvelway said:

I can still add text formatting to code blocks in Legacy, and I can still see text formatting in code blocks in Legacy.

But Legacy unfortunately is no longer supported (aka not synced anymore).

[Farbauti 45]

10 hours ago, gazumped said:

Wasn't aware it ever was - the thing about a code block is that it's plain text.  No formatting.  Anyway - if your original information is gone,  and there's no way to recover it from the current architecture,  what are you expecting Evernote to do?

Actually what I expect from a professional company is (upfront):

• test their new client thoroughly
• find that their new client removes information from code blocks (aka loss of data; because particular text styles are a kind of information)
• find a solution to keep this information (aka no data loss)

[gazumped 11,776]

24 minutes ago, Farbauti said:

find a solution to keep this information (aka no data loss)

Ideally yes... but my point was that this was never a planned feature,  just an accidental result of (probably) badly written - and now defunct - code.  Evernote Legacy had lots of ways to determine how many users were actively employing a given feature.  They had no way to determine how many had edited the basic function.  (I'd bet the number wasn't into double figures - it was so much easier just to use an external editor with built-in code highlighting and attach the file to a note.)

Anyway.  Good for you if you find a way to tweak an app so it does more than intended - but unless you tell them - don't expect the company to be aware that you have added your own process,  and don't expect them to be able to preserve your bespoke content across different software releases.

[marvelway 12]

I agree it's best to not expect it and let it go. I'd like to add, though, that this is a note taking app, and being able to mark up code is very useful, such as highlighting key parts. Code is text, and just like marking up text is useful (underlining, highlighting, bolding, etc), marking up code is useful. 

It's probably true not a lot of people mark up code, but Evernote defenders tend to overly default to "don't ask for it, no one uses it". I remember when Evernote defenders used to say, "don't ask for markdown, only 1% of users use it" when people asked for markdown. Now, Evernote has markdown (probably bc all its competition provided it). Evernote defenders also shot down people asking for syntax highlighting, but apparently now Evernote will finally add it. 

@Farbauti save code snippets in Notion, they let you mark up code. 

[mackid1993 991]

Just announced today on YouTube/X, code blocks are being rewritten and syntax highlighting is being added.

 

[Jon/t 1,378]

1 minute ago, mackid1993 said:

Just announced today on YouTube/X, code blocks are being rewritten and syntax highlighting is being added

Absolute joy!