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Evernot should be free for all users until it reaches full maturity and functionality again


Kolmir

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Just now, DTLow said:

The software you're using is free for all users
If you don't like version 10, switch to a legacy version

1. Legacy version is currently outdated and provided without support. There will be no more fixes, etc. It's not a proper approach.

2. @DTLow do you like to pay your hard-earned money for poor functionality or lack of respect? Or EvN just pays you for positive PR? 😉

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'twould seem right to lower the Premium subscription cost based upon the pillaging of functionality that begat this the new version.  If it was a value stretch for some before what's the value proposition now with significantly less capability?  

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I realize that Evernote needs revenue, but they need to do something to show some love to Premium users.  I have been paying for Premium for several years now.  I've never minded paying because I realize that a company needs money to run and because if if I use a service heavily I should pay for it.  I have even been patient while Evernote was being built from the bottom up.  While the "Legacy" version is a reasonable stop-gap measure, there are some problems with the approach:

  1. The legacy version is unsupported and can be turned off at some random point in the future.  We do not know how much notice will be provided or the level of feature compatibility that will trigger the discontinuation of the legacy version.  An addition of "at least x days notice will be provided before we turn off the legacy version" to the legacy help page would solve the first issue. A roadmap with a detailed list of features that will be implemented before the legacy version is turned off would help with the second issue.
  2. There is not a full list of what features will or will not be supported in the future.  So this puts users in the position of using the legacy version and then being faced with last-minute changes in their workflows as opposed to knowing that a feature is deprecated and having time to do deal with that. 
  3. The "install the new version, watch it wipe out the old version, and then having to reinstall the legacy version" routine is irritating, but at least it's a one-time thing.

Also, don't forget that has been almost 2 years since the "rebuild" started.  Premium users have been asked to be patient, and in large measure I feel we have been.  But, after all that time, it is sad we are presented with such a crippled version.  And the "advanced features" that they seem to not particularly care about are the types of features that that Premium users use.  It is almost as if they are aiming the service at free users who have only a few notes.  It feels like a kick tot the teeth to have paid for a product for years and then be treated this way.

So I upvoted this.  Not so much because I would like to have Evernote be free for the entire time.  But I do think that showing some love towards the Premium users who have been helping to keep the Evernote lights on is definitely in order.  Something like a free month or two as a "thank you" for our patience and trouble would be appreciated.

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On 10/13/2020 at 1:12 AM, PinkElephant said:

I think nobody is happy at the moment.

It may be a nice idea to save a few bucks, but I prefer they keep the money and work hard to release what we are missing in the current version.

Yep, I don't have any problems with paying for a solid hard/smart work. However, currently I have a feeling, that I'm paying mostly for hideous incompetence and outrageous lack of reverence for (advanced) customers...

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On 10/16/2020 at 9:54 PM, gozzilla78 said:

Frankly speaking, though I'm also appalled at the version (or versions, including all OS's) 10 fiasco, I have to say that my work flow hasn't changed by one iota (note that I stuck with version 6, not legacy, on Windows). In fact, the web client got so good that I'm now using Evernote quite effectively on my Linux boxes too. The servers are working fine, sync is fast, etc. So, overall, I cannot say I've been let down by Evernote, and have no real reason not to pay for my Premium plan. (Disappointment for what *could have* been, but hasn't -- this is not reason for complaints after all.)

Just my 2 cents. :)

I've been using v6 on Windows also.  I haven't upgraded yet, but am considering the upgrade/legacy scenario.  My big issue with how things are going isn't necessarily that v10 is missing this or that feature, but rather the lack of a roadmap.  Since we the users have no idea if a particular feature is going to be kept in the future, we have no idea as to whether we should be using v6 or legacy as a stopgap until the feature is fleshed out in v10 or as a means to provide time to migrate off a feature which will no longer be supported at some point in the future (i.e., when legacy is turned off). 

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4 minutes ago, Kolmir said:

Therefore, I suggest that all versions of Evernote apps/services should be free for all until they will reach some considerable level of maturity. Current paid users should get at least a partial refund.

The software you're using is free for all users
If you don't like version 10, switch to a legacy version

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42 minutes ago, Kolmir said:

@DTLow do you like to pay your hard-earned money for poor functionality or lack of respect?

My primary device is a Mac and I positively won't upgrade to v10 until the outstanding work and issues have been resolved   🙂

I agree this public release is a beta version, and shows a lack of respect for users

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I am more than upset.  I am a paid user and have been using since the beginning.  I don’t have nor want multiple email accounts.

 

I just want all my data and I am talking about hundreds of thousands of records! It’s all been stuffed up.

 

1. Just want all my notes out now.

2. Can I export all my business cards? I threw them all out and want them in a contact database .

3. Penultimate now useless.

4. What about dictation and voice memos that I used to use.

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Hi.  I'm not aware of any need for multiple email accounts.  It should be possible to uninstall the version you currently have and install a 'legacy' version 6.25.2 from that link,  or download and install the recent public version 6.25.1 from a third-party source like https://filehippo.com/download_evernote/

Once you have a working version you would be able to ignore this new update unless and until it returns some of the usability that you are now missing.

It would also be possible to export your notes to PDF or to another service should you wish.

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well, while I sympathize with the free premium access this would be the final nail in ENs coffin as then they would not have the income to pay for correcting this mess. the main issue imo is twofold:

  • pre-maturely releasing a beta version to the public that is far from feature complete
    • at least that's what I hope (that they will catch up with features to the "legacy apps" as they now weirdly call the full feature apps.)
    • my wild guess is they had to meet some internal deadline to shareholders or for bonus payment or some other internal financial metric.
  • completely ***** up the communication around the release
    • this is particularly odd considering how well handled these videos were and how careful Ian and team had communicated
    • the only way to come clean here is to (despite Ian not wanting that) clearly communicating what is in the pipeline in comparison to the fully featured apps. I think there would be three categories:
      • feature is coming back (stay tuned; please give us some time)
      • feature is gone, but we will come up with another solution to the use case (e.g. e2e encrypted notebooks to replace local notebooks; please give us some time)
      • feature is gone for good

overall this whole thing "smells" odd considering the prior communications. so while I was really p****d off initially I am starting to suspect it might not be as bad in the end as it seems right now. well, I guess I am the glass half full type. however just in case I am very focused on looking for alternatives right now...

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12 minutes ago, CalS said:

Hi. I'd suggest (re)installing the legacy version and using that where v10 isn't yet ready. Install an older version of Evernote

Thanks for the link.  Wow, clicking links on the legacy version opens some notes on the new version, some notes on the legacy version. 

why can't they simply get note links to work normally?

Looks like using both versions together might not be practical.

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Just now, Don Dz said:

Wow, clicking links on the legacy version opens some notes on the new version, some notes on the legacy version. 

why can't they simply get note links to work normally?

Rhetorical question I assume?  Personally I'm am sticking with 6.25, and 6.25 only, pending clean up on all aisles in the store.

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4 hours ago, toao said:

well, while I sympathize with the free premium access this would be the final nail in ENs coffin as then they would not have the income to pay for correcting this mess. the main issue imo is twofold:

  • pre-maturely releasing a beta version to the public that is far from feature complete
    • at least that's what I hope (that they will catch up with features to the "legacy apps" as they now weirdly call the full feature apps.)
    • my wild guess is they had to meet some internal deadline to shareholders or for bonus payment or some other internal financial metric.
  • completely ***** up the communication around the release
    • this is particularly odd considering how well handled these videos were and how careful Ian and team had communicated
    • the only way to come clean here is to (despite Ian not wanting that) clearly communicating what is in the pipeline in comparison to the fully featured apps. I think there would be three categories:
      • feature is coming back (stay tuned; please give us some time)
      • feature is gone, but we will come up with another solution to the use case (e.g. e2e encrypted notebooks to replace local notebooks; please give us some time)
      • feature is gone for good

overall this whole thing "smells" odd considering the prior communications. so while I was really p****d off initially I am starting to suspect it might not be as bad in the end as it seems right now. well, I guess I am the glass half full type. however just in case I am very focused on looking for alternatives right now...

thinking about it some more I guess in the category "gone for good" it would be important to know the reason to calm things a little - typically with understanding why things are happening emotions calm down somewhat. also browsing through the forums I think it should be pretty easy to compile the list of pain points (as if they dont have a list of the removed features already)

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Totally against this idea. Evernote is not Microsoft or Facebook. I do not think that they are doing pretty well economically. Additional, Evernote belongs to a private equity firm. Thiese firms want to see profits and are usually not willing to further invest into unprofitable companies but simply let them die or opt for a fire sale (worst thing that could happen now, trust me). 

To be honest, I don't care about 60€ a year. I would pay double the amount if I would get good software in return.

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42 minutes ago, kthesun said:

Totally against this idea. Evernote is not Microsoft or Facebook. I do not think that they are doing pretty well economically. Additional, Evernote belongs to a private equity firm. Thiese firms want to see profits and are usually not willing to further invest into unprofitable companies but simply let them die or opt for a fire sale (worst thing that could happen now, trust me). 

To be honest, I don't care about 60€ a year. I would pay double the amount if I would get good software in return.

That's the point: getting good software.

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3 hours ago, CalS said:

Rhetorical question I assume?  Personally I'm am sticking with 6.25, and 6.25 only, pending clean up on all aisles in the store.

Of course, I am just frustrated with how they left the note links in the same state as in the beta (main reason I didn't use the beta much), dark mode seems the only change I can see from the beta.

If not for this, I could probably endure the lack of features to some degree.

It also seems like a web client, rather than a Windows program (I am too prone to make mistakes to use the instant update feature, apparently the only option in ver. 10).

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I think one pays mostly for the cloud server (and online sharing, etc), not for the client which is merely an interface to the cloud database. Said that, I'm seriously thinking of switching to Joplin: I'd lose note sharing capabilities, but gain in markdown, end-to-end encryption, and a few bucks every year...

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I did agree with the make-it-free-till-its-working-better idea. But, thinking about it, while I do see the point of that, there is still the legacy version that works as it should; and part of what a Premium subscription is for is to use Evernote on multiple devices. So far the Android update has not been fully rolled out, and when it is I suspect it will be better received, because it will offer a much-improved editor while not removing features (such as import folders) that never existed on Android anyway.

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4 minutes ago, Sloop JB said:

The legacy version is unsupported and can be turned off at some random point in the future. 

And I will have to address that "at some random point in the future"
Today I am testing and providing feedback on Evernote Version 10

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Frankly speaking, though I'm also appalled at the version (or versions, including all OS's) 10 fiasco, I have to say that my work flow hasn't changed by one iota (note that I stuck with version 6, not legacy, on Windows). In fact, the web client got so good that I'm now using Evernote quite effectively on my Linux boxes too. The servers are working fine, sync is fast, etc. So, overall, I cannot say I've been let down by Evernote, and have no real reason not to pay for my Premium plan. (Disappointment for what *could have* been, but hasn't -- this is not reason for complaints after all.)

Just my 2 cents. :)

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5 hours ago, Sloop JB said:

I've been using v6 on Windows also.  I haven't upgraded yet, but am considering the upgrade/legacy scenario.  My big issue with how things are going isn't necessarily that v10 is missing this or that feature, but rather the lack of a roadmap.  Since we the users have no idea if a particular feature is going to be kept in the future, we have no idea as to whether we should be using v6 or legacy as a stopgap until the feature is fleshed out in v10 or as a means to provide time to migrate off a feature which will no longer be supported at some point in the future (i.e., when legacy is turned off). 

You might want to vote for this thread.

 

While I'm keen for a road map I am slightly worried that the speed issues are fundamental to some decisions made about how EN operates. I am not prepared, long term, to wait for seconds for the simplest operation to complete. Add to that the lag between changing notes and that change being reflected in search (e.g. for tags). We have seen improvements in speed over the preview and beta stages but I need adding a tag to 10 notes to be 10 or 100 times faster. Is that realistically going to happen?

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29 minutes ago, Sloop JB said:

I had already done that.  I mentioned it in my first post.

It probably wan't clear but my suggestion for the upvote was for the post I linked to "Dev: post a full road map for users" as that is directly relevant to the bit of your post that I quoted. I thought from your first post that you had upvoted the current thread about being free for all users.

 

On 10/16/2020 at 6:25 PM, Sloop JB said:

So I upvoted this.  Not so much because I would like to have Evernote be free for the entire time.  But I do think that showing some love towards the Premium users who have been helping to keep the Evernote lights on is definitely in order.  Something like a free month or two as a "thank you" for our patience and trouble would be appreciated.

 

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