(Archived) Evernote for Mac 3.0.6 Beta 1

[dlu 628]

Evernote Mac has a new beta!

The most visible improvement is the change in the note info panel. This is the area that includes the note title, tags, rich text editing buttons, etc. We've also changed FullScreen mode to accommodate multiple notes.

The full release notes are below. Let us know if you find any bugs or awkward interactions.

If you've opted into the Betas, you can go to Help >> Check for Updates

If you're not auto-updating, you can get the beta here: http://evernote.s3.amazonaws.com/mac/prerelease/Evernote_214012.zip

Release Notes

Improvements:

• New note editor UI design
  
• Quick checkbox list creation
  
• Escape key in search box clears search
  
• Lion Full Screen improvements
  

Bug fixes:

• Fix a bug that sometimes caused context-menu operations to use the wrong note(s)
  
• Fix a bug that prevented screen clipping from working on Lion
  
• Fix a bug that broke search when search text starts with "source" and some other values
  
• Fix a bug that prevented checkboxes from printing
  

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Not entirely correct. In snippet view the date reflects whether the notes are sorted by creation date or updated date.

Thanks for the clarification. Had no way of knowing that since there are no visual cues as to which date is displayed.

In any case, it still doesn't help. I still can't change the date in the Snippet block. And, I often need to sort by Updated date, and then change the Created date.

[jefito 5,589]

- Is it created or updated date that is most important? (Or is it viewing both?)

Both, really. Some notes (e.g. task lists, project notes etc.) get updated often, and I want to be able to scan back through the most recently updated notes in some query-based category, so Updated date is key. But sometimes it's also useful to use Created date to see when some topic/idea/project/whatever was begun. I do use Updated more often than Created date, though, by far.

- Do you tend to make multiple entries/edits to a note? Or do you tend to create a series of new notes?

For projects, task-lists, to-do lists, the former. For articles and informational snippets that I clip; the latter.

- What decisions do you make off of knowing the updated/created dates?

See above. For active notes, the updated date allows me to keep track of what's active. Created date allows me to do a measure of gross time-lining of project and activity initiation ("we started this project in June '10", etc.). If I want more detailed timeline information, I can always add time stamps to specific sections of the note, or make a list of milestones.

- What is your general workflow?

Clip a lot of articles for reading / research / retention. That's for both home and for work activities.

For work stuff, each project gets a unique tag plus some generic tags ("Work", etc.), and there's typically a master project list where I can keep a task list and high-level notes. Supporting material (web clips, detailed procedures, emails, etc) get that tag too. Active project material gets the "_Todo" tag, but that's removed when the task goes inactive (either temporarily or permanently). Usages as above, with respect to dates. A third date (Due or Subject) would occasionally be useful, mainly for the project master notes.

I clip some personal stuff, but not a lot at this time. Lobbying the Finance Committee (AKA my wife) for a scanner, which would probably be used for that. I believe that creation date would be important for tracking those sorts of items.

- What type of notes are most useful when able to view the created & updated dates?

See above.

Thanks for the feedback and being active on our forums. cheers!

Thanks for asking us for the feedback.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

People who love their dates,

Just wanted to ask a few question to get a context of how you use Evernote.

dlu, thank you very much for asking. This is much appreciated.

Here are my responses. I hope you and your team will find them helpful.

- Is it created or updated date that is most important? (Or is it viewing both?)

• Created date is usually the most important, although there are times the Updated date is very important
  
• I really like the date display as it is in Ver 3.0.5
  

- Do you tend to make multiple entries/edits to a note? Or do you tend to create a series of new notes?

• Equal amounts of both:
  
  • Some Notes are for reference, and are rarely updated
    
  • Some Notes are updated many times a day as I work on a Project/Task
    

- What decisions do you make off of knowing the updated/created dates?

• Created Date
  
  • Obviously tells me when the note information was entered
    
  • Can be very important as technology, software, projects change
    
  • Needed to establish a clear time-line of events (personal/family history, SW updates, Project/Task milestones, World history, politics, etc)
    
  • Used to set Travel and Event related dates (like Trips, Flight Departures, etc) -- date is changed to a future date
    

  [*]Updated Date

  • Identifying task recently worked on
    
  • When were certain changes/decisions last made
    
  • Identifying current active Notes
    

- What is your general workflow?

• This has largely been answered in the above comments/responses
  
• For Trips, I'll make 4 New Notes, all with a future "Created" Date
  
  • Trip Summay
    
  • Airfare
    
  • Rental Car
    
  • Lodging
    

  [*]Search for Tasks/Notes Created (or Updated) within a specific time range

  • I would use this much more if the Search date syntax was more user friendly
    

- What type of notes are most useful when able to view the created & updated dates?

• Again, largely answered above
  
• Projects, Tasks, Meeting, Travel, Trips, Events, Personal History, World History, Software Updates, Software Installed, Purchases, Legal, Financial
  

---------------------------------

I honestly don't see what was wrong with the last Public Release (3.0.5) -- in fact I much prefer it

1. The User could hide the section where dates were shown/entered if he/she did not want to see it
   
2. So the net amount of note writing space did not change materially with the Beta.
   
3. The Note Title and Notebook were clearly identified and shown
   
4. The Formatting toolbar/buttons were clearly a toolbar, and not part of the Note text space
   
5. Looking forward to when a Due Date is made available
   
   • I would definitely want it to always be shown (or with an option to do so like Ver 3.0.5)
     
   • It would fit nicely in the existing Date Section of Ver 3.0.5.
     
   • Having to click the Note Info button would be a big annoyance, and sometime even cause me to overlook important Due Dates.
     

[*]The only UI change I see that would really help is to allow the Tags on the Note to "word-wrap" so that all Tags would be shown even when more than one line is required due to the Note window width. And the Beta didn't change this.

[Reverend Beavis 4]

People who love their dates,

Just wanted to ask a few question to get a context of how you use Evernote.

- Is it created or updated date that is most important? (Or is it viewing both?) I use 'created' exclusively. I personally never use the 'updated' field.

- Do you tend to make multiple entries/edits to a note? Or do you tend to create a series of new notes? I make multiple edits to notes, although I don't care to know the date/time of the last edit.

- What decisions do you make off of knowing the updated/created dates? My life it tied to my calendar, and having all my notes in chronological order is important for me. I only use one notebook, sorted by 'date created'.

- What is your general workflow? I scan every piece of paper that comes in, import to EN, update note title, created date, and tag. Same goes for important emails.

- What type of notes are most useful when able to view the created & updated dates?

[jbenson2 2,147]

- Is it created or updated date that is most important? (Or is it viewing both?)

I totally 100% live off the created date. I cannot recall ever needing the updated date.

- Do you tend to make multiple entries/edits to a note? Or do you tend to create a series of new notes?

I try to always create new notes. Sometimes I will edit an existing note to indicate what I did to complete the task and add a date/time stamp.

- What decisions do you make off of knowing the updated/created dates?

The Created dates help sort my notes chronilogically. Very helpful for bills and payment history.

I also use a modified Created date for future tasks and appointments. (Due Date)

I don't use the updated date.

- What is your general workflow?

50% web capture

45% scans

5% text

[dlu 628]

Thanks everyone! I guess my next question is, does the date in the snippet/list/thumbnail not suffice?

[jefito 5,589]

Thanks everyone! I guess my next question is, does the date in the snippet/list/thumbnail not suffice?

I usually sort the note view by Updated. I used to use List view a lot, and had both Created and Updated visible in the LV header; both were used as I specified above. Been using Snippet View more often, mainly for reasons of better screen usage on wide-screen monitors; the date's not that important in the Snippet view information; I expect it's the creation date, since they're out of order from the Updated dates used to sort the list, right?

[Martin Packer 162]

@jbenson2 If you're used to updating notes - perhaps as you learn stuff - then Updated is handy. I tend to use it instead of Created. (I expect the Created date to be the same as the Updated date for things that don't get updated once created.)

Martin

[Metrodon 2,184]

I use dates a lot - but they are dates I enter myself once or many times in the note (20111229 for example for today), don't really care what you do with the auto created/updated ones.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

People who love their dates,

Just wanted to ask a few question to get a context of how you use Evernote.

- Is it created or updated date that is most important? (Or is it viewing both?) Both.

- Do you tend to make multiple entries/edits to a note? Or do you tend to create a series of new notes? Again, both.

- What decisions do you make off of knowing the updated/created dates? No real decisions. The dates are just helpful in locating notes & viewing them in chronological order.

- What is your general workflow?

- What type of notes are most useful when able to view the created & updated dates? Any/all.

Answers above in red.

IMO, both created & updated dates are important. I often add notes from my previous note taking apps that may go back many years/decades & often set the created date to the date the note was originally made. But I also often update notes. Sometimes, if I can't find a note that was created say, last year, but modified yesterday, I'll sort by updated date to find it.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

I mainly use the dates I create myself in the titles (111229), but I also sort the notes (in the middle pane) according to when they were updated or created. This is helpful on especially productive days (usually at the end of my 30 day cycle) when I create a bunch of notes on the same day and want to know the ones that matter most (the ones I keep updating in my current project).

I don't usually pay a lot of attention to the information in the note about date/time created and updated, but I still find it handy to know, so I leave the setting on (I am apparently using an older version of Evernote that lets me view this all of the time). I would prefer that this toggle function remain, because otherwise I am really too lazy to hunt around in the menu to find the command for viewing the metadata. Once it is out of sight, it is out of mind, and then pretty much useless.

Please keep it there.

[jefito 5,589]

Hey dlu, I think that this conversation about dates might be worthy of a wider audience than the Mac crowd (and interlopers like me), particularly if it's going to feed into policy decisions that affect other clients (though I don't know whether it will actually). Thanks.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Thanks everyone! I guess my next question is, does the date in the snippet/list/thumbnail not suffice?

I almost never use the date in the snippet view:

1. It is very hard to read since it is very small font size, and a light blue color, mixed in with a lot of other text
   
2. It is impossible to read when the Note is selected because the contrast between the font color and background color is very low
   
3. It can't be changed
   
4. My eye can find the date in the Date section of Ver 3.0.5 quickly, but I have to scan a lot of text in the Snippet to find the date
   
5. It shows ONLY the Updated Date. I need the Created Date.
   

I almost never use the date in the List view for a specific note:

1. List view date is helpful for scanning the date of a bunch of Notes.
   
2. But when I have selected a specific Note, then it is not helpful
   
3. Usually I am forced to switch to Snippet view when working on a specific Note because I need the vertical space
   

It would be most helpful if you would provide us with an option for List View in the same position as Snippet view, with a single line per Note

Again, the UI layout in Ver 3.0.5 works very well. I prefer it.

I don't see any advantages in the 3.0.6 Beta layout. What is the advantage supposed to be?

[pgdahl 133]

5. It shows ONLY the Updated Date. I need the Created Date.

Not entirely correct. In snippet view the date reflects whether the notes are sorted by creation date or updated date. If a note is created on 11/04/01 this is the date that will be shown when the notes are sorted by creation. Likewise, if the same note is updated on 11/12/29, that is the date that will be shown in blue in snippet view if the notes are sorted by update date.

Edit: Ah. I got a bit ahead of myself and forgot that there are other sorting options too... it does indeed seem like there's no way of showing the update date in those. Not that it matters at all to me, update date means next to nada in my own workflow.

[SteveJam 7]

Add my vote for a change back to the previous system of note date modification.

[jefito 5,589]

Not entirely correct. In snippet view the date reflects whether the notes are sorted by creation date or updated date.

Decidedly *not* the case on the Windows client. Created date is always shown, regardless of whether the list is being sorted by Updated or Created date (I noted this earlier in the thread). So possibly a difference between the Mac and Windows client's behaviors.

[fletchni 4]

What other usability issues do you have with the Mac App? While we don't claim to do everything right, but we shouldn't be making you question whether or not we have a "real Usability expert" within the team. (As an aside, the line about how the key to UI is about the "User, as in usability" I find patronizing)

dlu,

I apologise if I sounded patronising, it was not my intention to do so. In fact, this feels like the most interaction I have ever had with an Evernote employee, and I'd like you to know how much I appreciate it.

I will compile a list over the next few days of what I called "usability" issues, and come back to you. Maybe usability was a strong word, and I was maybe influenced by an earlier poster who talked about "intuitiveness." But once again, I'm sorry if I offended you.

Regards, Nic.

[fletchni 4]

People who love their dates,

Just wanted to ask a few question to get a context of how you use Evernote.

- Is it created or updated date that is most important? (Or is it viewing both?)

- Do you tend to make multiple entries/edits to a note? Or do you tend to create a series of new notes?

- What decisions do you make off of knowing the updated/created dates?

- What is your general workflow?

- What type of notes are most useful when able to view the created & updated dates?

...

1. "Created" date is the critical date. I have found that even if I accidentally enter the note without actually "editing" it, the updated date changes, so it has never proved that useful for me. But I use "Created" date constantly.
   
2. I, personally, at least with my current work (I work freelance, and my workflows often change) do NOT tend to update or add to notes that often.
   
3. I use Evernote primarily for storing information, but I also clip a number of items that become actions (and I file them in appropriate notebooks). The created date is therefore extremely useful in knowing when I created the action.
   
   1. 
      
   2. I've mentioned earlier that, with the absence of a custom date field (and I realise this is a big change, not just a Mac UI issue), for some notebooks I actually change the "created" date to a "deadline" date. It's actually rather cool that you allow me to change the "created date" and ever more cool that it can be in the future. This has proven to be a really really helpful feature.
      
   3. I think I've answered this in point 3 above. I have some notes that are in fact actions. If its a one-off action in a notebook, I will add it to my To-Do list with a link to the Evernote note (I use The Hit List).
      
      1. But I also have some notebooks that are full of actions. For these, I already know it is something I have to check frequently, so I don't waste time creating actions in my To-Do list… And that is where the date field comes in. I either use created date as a key-reference, so I understand the relevancy of the note, or I change the "created date" to a future date to give me a deadline.
         

[*]In my case, they will always be clippings. Evernote is not my To-Do productivity tool, but rather a reference tool. So notes I create and write myself are rarely critical for the date. But those I clip or reference to PDFs or other documents are key.

I hope this helps, and I appreciate your interaction and willingness to listen.

Nic.

[fletchni 4]

Thanks everyone! I guess my next question is, does the date in the snippet/list/thumbnail not suffice?

I had become so used to using the date on the note itself, I may have forgotten this, but there a few issues:

• The earlier comment on the colour is key. While the date is clear if a note is not selected, it is next to unreadable when selected.
  
• Although Full-screen view, I understand, is not popular with all, when sorting notes by created date, the blue date snippet actually shows "updated" date… contrary to how it works in normal view.
  
• Although one might think a user "should" know, the date changes based on the sort, and there is no indication as to what that date is.
  

And as an update to an earlier comment I made:

• I do often change the created date. So, having the date field easily accessible is very helpful (one way round might be to have a shortcut key to the info box). Although I have to say the current "released" version's drop-down date calendar really didn't work well (although I did like being able to see the calendar… not so much to chose [i like the beta text entry] but to be able to check for which day of the week a date falls on).
  

Nic.

[fletchni 4]

One last comment for today. Not strictly a beta issue, but since there is good developer interaction in this forum topic:

• In full-screen view, I cannot find a way to change the sort order of notes. I have to go back to normal view, change the sort, and then back to full-screen view.
  
• Also, just to reiterate my comment above, there is a bug in full-screen view: when sorting by "created" date, the date displayed in the snippet is the "updated" date and not the "created" date… contrary to how it works in normal combined view.
  

Thanks, Nic.

[Martin Packer 162]

The general lesson seems to be BOTH are required: We have use cases aplenty for both Created and Updated dates.

Martin

[blkmagwom 0]

I signed up to this forum just to comment on the latest beta.

So, I just want to emphasize what people have already said with two screenshots of the same note. One from the most recent public release and one from the beta I downloaded this morning.

Of course the public release is image #1 below and the beta is image #2. What the screenshot for the note in the public release offers me in one glance, no extra clicking are the created and modification dates (which is essential for me because I email notes into the account or create them on the fly and I like to know quickly which are old notes I have modified or new notes I have not.

The second thing that I can see quickly is how the note came into being. I have filters set in my email to forward notes to evernote if they have xyz criteria. This is essential for me with regard to bills, receipts, etc. Sometimes I put receipts in evernote by printing the online receipt in pdf form and putting it in evernote, while other times it is automatically sent via email. Without going into the realm of hyperbole, it is unacceptable that I have to click extra times to find out this information that I could previously see in one click. I use evernote quite a bit for personal and professional needs and I have years of work in evernote. Removing my ability to see this information (dates, author, url, location) messes with my workflow in a serious way.

What I would like is the option to display this extra information on my notes. I realize that everyone may not use evernote the way I do, but I do need to see this information quickly.

Finally, I agree with previous comments that the gray is hard to read.

#1

#2

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

I signed up to this forum just to comment on the latest beta.

So, I just want to emphasize what people have already said with two screenshots of the same note. One from the most recent public release and one from the beta I downloaded this morning.

Of course the public release is image #1 below and the beta is image #2. What the screenshot for the note in the public release offers me in one glance, no extra clicking are the created and modification dates (which is essential for me because I email notes into the account or create them on the fly and I like to know quickly which are old notes I have modified or new notes I have not.

The second thing that I can see quickly is how the note came into being. I have filters set in my email to forward notes to evernote if they have xyz criteria. This is essential for me with regard to bills, receipts, etc. Sometimes I put receipts in evernote by printing the online receipt in pdf form and putting it in evernote, while other times it is automatically sent via email. Without going into the realm of hyperbole, it is unacceptable that I have to click extra times to find out this information that I could previously see in one click. I use evernote quite a bit for personal and professional needs and I have years of work in evernote. Removing my ability to see this information (dates, author, url, location) messes with my workflow in a serious way.

What I would like is the option to display this extra information on my notes. I realize that everyone may not use evernote the way I do, but I do need to see this information quickly.

Finally, I agree with previous comments that the gray is hard to read.

#1

#2

I am not using the beta, so I can toggle the detailed view on for all notes, and I am quite pleased with the public build (3.0.5). Judging by these screen shots, it is difficult to see how the interface has been improved. The beta is much more difficult to read because it lacks contrast, and I don't see the rationale for displaying less information about the note. This ought to at least be a toggle (always on or always off).

[blkmagwom 0]

Quick checkbox list creation

How do you do this?

[soundsgoodtome 155]

People who love their dates,

Just wanted to ask a few question to get a context of how you use Evernote.

- Is it created or updated date that is most important? (Or is it viewing both?)

i need to see -- at a glance -- both the creation and modification dates of every note i view. in previous versions, we had the option to have this info displayed always, but now, having to hit ⇧⌘I on each and every note just to view dates has completely broken my workflow. this is not an improvement. why you'd remove functionality without giving us the option to restore it is confounding.

please, please restore this functionality.

- Do you tend to make multiple entries/edits to a note? Or do you tend to create a series of new notes?

yes. :-)

- What decisions do you make off of knowing the updated/created dates?

it's not a matter of "decisions." it's a matter of reference. it's important information to see at a glance.

[chrisbulle 26]

from what I gather here, due dates are coming sooner or later (I for one can't wait).

Here's another thought: expiry dates. I have many notes that I may need, but not after a certain date (for example, travel info for a meeting etc.) so if i could set a date to auto-trash the note, it would make housekeeping a bit easier.

[jbenson2 2,147]

from what I gather here, due dates are coming sooner or later (I for one can't wait).

Here's another thought: expiry dates. I have many notes that I may need, but not after a certain date (for example, travel info for a meeting etc.) so if i could set a date to auto-trash the note, it would make housekeeping a bit easier.

My personal view is to keep all travel info in Evernote even if the meeting is completed.

It comes in handy if I need to make a similar trip in the future (flight cost comparison, travel time, directions, etc.) or just reviewing the previous year activities.

[Martin Packer 162]

@jbenson2 I'm the same... Expenses receipts tell me when I visited a particular customer. Something I need to regurgitate as the framework of my annual appraisal. (What I did with the customer being the other bit - which I CAN'T entrust to Evernote for security reasons.)

I also have an open-minded view when it comes to what I might do with obsolete Evernote notes: I suspect they become interesting in unexpected ways. The downside of keeping everything is clutter - which is why I'm corralling old expenses into "Archive Expenses" etc notebooks. And the "All Notes" view - which I use a lot - is OK in that regard as old stuff moves down the list. (I sort by Updated date - to return this to relevance.) :-)

Martin

[dalefrancum 0]

I just upgraded to the 3.06 beta, and as someone said near the beginning of this thread, I'm considering going through the trouble of reverting to the previous version.

The interface is too "pale", first of all -- it's kind of miserable to look at (sorry).

I miss having the Created and Updated timestamps right there in the note. Also, when you pop open the Info window where you can edit the date if you like (sometimes I create notes in advance for meetings, and give them a Created timestamp for the meeting's scheduled time) -- you can no longer arrow up/down to advance the date/time values.

Dale

[pgdahl 133]

My first reaction on seeing the new note editing menu was: Hmmm... that looks really odd. Then I saw Erkentniss' post with screenshot (#13) and had to rephrase: How very odd, indeed!

Heres mine:

Click for large view - Uploaded with Skitch

See the difference? Why do I have these fugly buttons? (On OS X 10.7.2, btw)

I agree that it's a little too washed out, a darker background and even darker text would be grand.

Not sure what the point of this update is, though, usability-wise the editor has not improved much: I still have to jump trough hoops to strike out text, now I need to do it to add colors as well. And I can still only choose web fonts...

<completely off topic>Skitch is the most counterintuitive Mac app in existence... gave up figuring out how to not copy my desktop too *shrugs*</off topic>

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Thanks for the update.

Initial Issues found with EN Mac 3.0.6 Beta 1 (214012)

1. Font color button is missing from toolbar
   
2. I definitely don't like the removal of the Created Date and Updated Date from the Note Info section.
   
   • Very often when I first display a note I want to see these dates
     
   • Adding an extra step every time to click on the info icon is an annoyance
     

[*]I don't like the removal of the Share icon from the Top Tool bar, and putting it inline with the Title

[*]Note Title and Notebook name in the Note header are hard to read

• These are key info that needs to stand out
  
• Text should be bold and black instead of the light grey
  
• Font size should be 12-14 pt on the Mac (equiv to 9-10 in Win)
  
• I think Verdana is the easiest font to read on a screen
  

[*]I like the old Note UI better

• I don't understanding spending resources on stuff like this that doesn't add any real value while there are still a number of missing features that have been in EN Win for a long time.
  

[*]Full screen still is useless to me

• With over 3,000 notes, seeing large icons for each note adds nothing and wastes space
  

[*]Search Explanation bar is still missing (but is shown in EN Win)

[*]Can't add or drag Saved Searches to Favorite Bar (like you can in EN Win)

[*]Can't edit Saved Search definition

[*]Still missing the most basic table editing features.

[dlu 628]

Let's hope there aren't any designers that jump on the "stuff like this that doesn't add any real value" line.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback. Look forward to more

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Perhaps I should have said that cosmetic changes are OK, but we have a more urgent need for real features rather than a new face, which is arguably prettier.

[Metrodon 2,184]

And that's the joy of developing a product like Evernote.

I never look at the Created and Updated dates, so putting them one click away doesn't bother me in the slightest - in fact I prefer it as it gives me some screen back.

I'm a less is more kinda bloke, so I don't have any issues with the changes to the note info panel - looks clean and clear to me.

Full screen's single view also continues not to work for me - although the ability to open multiple notes will I'm sure be useful.

As the release notes don't mention the search explanation bar, saved search definitions or table editing, I wasn't expecting to see any changes.

[macfixer 705]

<slightly OT> The direct downloads for betas are nice — but are they going to stay around for the final version? </slightly OT>

[chrisbulle 26]

i don't usually complain about "The New Look", in any service or software. but my first reaction to the new note editing interface was really painful.

the "exploding" bubble / information menu really hurts and it is not obvious which fields can be edited and which can't. My eyes aren't too good, so i find the transparency very difficult - a big step back in accessibility, if you ask me.

the title of the current note is arguably the most important piece of info in the whole window, and yet it is "elegantly" greyed out.

+1 everything JMichael said, except perhaps no. 3 (and some of my best friends are designers).

not happy, not happy at all.

p.s. quick checkbox list creation is useful

[MathieuG 1]

I have to admit that my very first reaction to the new UI was to download back the previous version of Evernote and uncheck the automated beta version update.

[GregMcD 1]

Bulleted and numbered lists now appear to work differently in the new UI. In prior versions, using the Enter key on an empty or blank bullet/number in the list exited the list so you could continue typing regular text. This was a very fast way of using lists. Using an Enter key on a blank bullet or number now removes the bullet/number and moves the cursor to the end of the previous item in the list. The only way to exit the list is to use the mouse and click below the list. The previous version seems to me to be more intuitive and matched how lists behave in other products such as Word, Mail, etc.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Bulleted and numbered lists now appear to work differently in the new UI.

. . . The previous version seems to me to be more intuitive and matched how lists behave in other products such as Word, Mail, etc.

I see the same behavior, and agree that previous ver worked better.

[dlu 628]

Bulleted and numbered lists now appear to work differently in the new UI. In prior versions, using the Enter key on an empty or blank bullet/number in the list exited the list so you could continue typing regular text. This was a very fast way of using lists. Using an Enter key on a blank bullet or number now removes the bullet/number and moves the cursor to the end of the previous item in the list. The only way to exit the list is to use the mouse and click below the list. The previous version seems to me to be more intuitive and matched how lists behave in other products such as Word, Mail, etc.

Thanks for pointing that out. I agree with you

[dlu 628]

The direct downloads for betas are nice — but are they going to stay around for the final version?

I'm not sure what you mean by "are they going to stay around"

You can stay on this beta for as long as you like. The link will continue to work. You can upgrade from the beta to the GA (final version)

[erkenntnis 8]

I kind of like the new note editing interface, although it is hard to differentiate between the body of the note and note editing UI. To see what I mean, compare this:

With this:

In the latter screenshot from Apple Mail, the distinction between the body area and the info area is clear. In the former shot from Evernote/Mac 3.0.6 beta 1, the distinction is only barely there.

I also think that the note info popover window is nice, but it also could do with some alterations. I agree with what was said before about it being difficult to see which fields are editable and which aren't. I also want to point out that the transparency of the popover can be troublesome:

In the screenshot here, you can see that the text in the note body is obscuring the text in the popover.

I personally would like it if the popover window was less transparent, and if the text was generally larger and darker (again, more like Apple Mail in the screenshot above).

I also agree with what was said before about the behavior of the Enter key on numbered and bulleted lists. It's odd to see that hitting Enter on an empty bullet deletes the bullet and returns me to the previous line. I'm curious about the reasoning for this change, because I feel like the previous behavior was more efficient and intuitive.

One final thought: I really like the new "quick checklist creation" feature.

[mrgoerend 89]

I'd like to add my voice to the requests that the title and notebook in an editing window get darker. They're hard to see.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

How do I revert to the last public general release version (the one I had just before the Beta update)?

[dlu 628]

People who love their dates,

Just wanted to ask a few question to get a context of how you use Evernote.

- Is it created or updated date that is most important? (Or is it viewing both?)

- Do you tend to make multiple entries/edits to a note? Or do you tend to create a series of new notes?

- What decisions do you make off of knowing the updated/created dates?

- What is your general workflow?

- What type of notes are most useful when able to view the created & updated dates?

Thanks for the feedback and being active on our forums.

cheers!

[pgdahl 133]

How do I revert to the last public general release version (the one I had just before the Beta update)?

I think the only way is to uninstall the Beta and download the latest stable and opt out of beta updates.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

BUG: Adding a checkbox to a numbered list causes the list to change to a checkbox list.

In the previous version, it worked very well.

I often create numbered lists for things to be done, and so I start each numbered line with a checkbox (appears after the number).

Then I type the text.

When I hit RETURN, it would correctly provide the next number in the list.

[karenjs 35]

Very much like the placement of the notebook list.

I think the tag autocomplete is much faster than previous releases

I didn't get the camera icon...I still don't get the camera icon, actually, even now when I know what it is!

Ambivalent about the info now being a pop up. I think I can get used to it, as I don't typically have that stuff shown anyhow.

Don't like the charcoal grey color of the headers. I know you want them to be unobtrusive, but this is too light (practicality issue), but also because my brain tells me these features are "greyed out" ie unavailable, which, of course, they aren't. But..that's what grey usually does mean..

Thanks for the beta, and thanks for asking for feedback. :-)

Karen

[Martin Packer 162]

Please nix the grey. And on the "list creation" thing maybe the escape key could be used to exit List Creation Mode.

Martin

[dlu 628]

My first reaction on seeing the new note editing menu was: Hmmm... that looks really odd. Then I saw Erkentniss' post with screenshot (#13) and had to rephrase: How very odd, indeed!

Heres mine:

Click for large view - Uploaded with Skitch

See the difference? Why do I have these fugly buttons? (On OS X 10.7.2, btw)

I agree that it's a little too washed out, a darker background and even darker text would be grand.

Not sure what the point of this update is, though, usability-wise the editor has not improved much: I still have to jump trough hoops to strike out text, now I need to do it to add colors as well. And I can still only choose web fonts...

<completely off topic>Skitch is the most counterintuitive Mac app in existence... gave up figuring out how to not copy my desktop too *shrugs*</off topic>

Thanks for the screenshot, we'll figure out what causes that and fix it.

[karenjs 35]

Wait..I've noticed now that the method to change font colors takes more clicks now that the redesigned toolbar doesn't have that on the main level. I used that quite a bit to highlight text in notes I clip. One vote to bring that back - you have the real estate for it. Thanks. :-)

[davidtx 0]

I love the new checkbox list creation, but the toolbar button should now be grouped with the other list creation buttons. Checkbox lists should be integrated into the Format | Lists menu. On second thought, perhaps that menu could just go - the behavior of "Toggle bulleted/numbered list" isn't exactly a toggle and behaves differently than the toolbar buttons.

I agree about reverting the list termination protocol to previous behavior (enter on empty entry). It worked well and is consistent with other tools.

Now if we could just get a "strikethrough" button on the (note) toolbar. I often create todo lists and later determine that an entry shouldn't be done. I don't like checking them off - that implies that I actually executed the task. I don't like deleting them - that removes them from the historical record. Using strikethrough seems like a good solution, though there is a minor issue with using todo:[true|false|*] searches.

Hmm - it looks like todo:[true|false|*] searches are broken in this release.

[fletchni 4]

i try my very best to be positive when providing feedback, but I have to be honest and say that Evernote continues to frustrate me in terms of usability, and this new beta simply reinforces my frustration. I still use Evernote daily because its overall architecture of managing notes, powerful search, multiple platforms, etc. are unparalleled, but boy, is it hard to use at times!

1. I too have the problem with the "fugly" buttons.
   
2. Date, date, date, date.
   
   1. 
      
   2. I'm sure this will be contentious as some users' workflows will have no use for a date. But I am quite certain that many many users will have workflows where the date of a note is critical. In fact, I even change the date created in some notebooks to future dates, just to get a view of date oriented notes. (as an aside, a custom date field in the future would just be wonderful).
      
   3. So, please, please, can we have the date back in the main view.
      
   4. Also, while I really like the intuitive way of entering dates now (the old drop down box was horrendous), when displaying them, I don't need to have such detailed text dates.
      
   5. In fact, I wouldn't mind the box staying the same (subject to transparency issues - see below) for date entry, but at least trying to find a way to display them on the main view.
      
   6. I concur with other users on the greyness of the title.
      
   7. The bullet / number list issue I am sure will be fixed… it is a defacto Apple standard and indeed with Microsoft Office in Windows as well.
      
   8. Who wouldn't like the improvement of checkboxes? - I can't believe it's taken so long, thank you! Although I think there are valid comments above on how they work within lists, although that has not affected me yet.
      
   9. Talking about real estate (and the dates, for example), why bother showing the formatting bar if I don't enter the note to edit? if I click in the note, then show me the bar, but when I'm just browsing, please don't!
      
   10. The transparency of the info box is an issue. Transparency, which is becoming a design norm, is not always bad, but it depends on several other factors such as colour, usage, data underneath, and whether the covered item (often text in my Evernote) is blurred or not. In this case, the greys and clarity of the underling text simply does not work.
       
       
       These are notes from just five minutes of using the beta… I'll come back with more. But please, while I, overall, like the new design… the key to any UI has to be the first letter… User, as in usability. So, while I appreciate the hard work and ideas you guys come up with, please can a real Usability expert also sit in on the design discussions.
       Thanks, Nic.

[pgdahl 133]

Thanks for the screenshot, we'll figure out what causes that and fix it.

Thanks. By the way, this happens on both of my Macs (mid-2010 Mac mini and a mid-2011 MacBook Pro).

[dlu 628]

i try my very best to be positive when providing feedback, but I have to be honest and say that Evernote continues to frustrate me in terms of usability

...

the key to any UI has to be the first letter… User, as in usability.

...

please can a real Usability expert also sit in on the design discussions.

Thanks, Nic.

What other usability issues do you have with the Mac App? While we don't claim to do everything right, but we shouldn't be making you question whether or not we have a "real Usability expert" within the team. (As an aside, the line about how the key to UI is about the "User, as in usability" I find patronizing)

Regarding the formatting bar. The problem we run into when trying to hide it when not in use (aside from users at first glance thinking we've removed it completely), is that we then have to reclaim real estate when the user puts focus on the note field. Their insertion point would then have to move down and it becomes a little messy. The reverse happens when a user goes back up into the note title, etc. Overall, it is more disruptive than having the formatting bar always shown.

[vineetw 21]

BUG: Adding a checkbox to a numbered list causes the list to change to a checkbox list.

JMichael,

Thanks for the report - case #5903 has been filed

[jefito 5,589]

BUG: Adding a checkbox to a numbered list causes the list to change to a checkbox list.

JMichael,

Thanks for the report - case #5903 has been filed

Curously, I ran across this behavior on Android as well. Just reported it there (http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/22832-checkboxes-vs-bulleted-lists/page__view__findpost__p__116937).

[dlu 628]

Thanks for letting us know, we're probably doing the same thing programmatically. We just gave the Android team a heads up.