In case you are thinking of leaving evernote...

[gatorbrit 70]

.. here are my thoughts/experiences.

My first note was made 10 years ago June 2009.  I've used it entirely for all my personal stuff - travel, finances, kids report cards, music, web clips and on and off I've used it for work stuff - reference materials, meeting notes and even GTD.

However, with all the talk and rumors about EN sustainability, I decided to try out alternatives.   Here's what I found.

1.  Bear.   I am an amateur musician (not a very good one).  In music a common notation for a sharp is a #.   Bear treats this as a tag.   So storing your music in bear is a non-starter.   You could use other symbols, but why?  Also Bear is another company, with a subscription plan that's just younger than EN.  Why should Bear last any more than EN?

2. Apple Notes.  Pretty good and free.  But web clipping is non existent.  Scanning is hard.  Sync can be slow over icloud.   You can't tag easily.  Search is limited.

3. Notebooks.app.   I really thought this one might be good.  Idea is you store your notes in dropbox and then Notebooks creates a little file with meta data (tag, due date etc) for the note.  Your notes are in a native format - rtf , pdf, html etc so no proprietary system.  People seem to rave about it and it has nice IOS apps.  But - no web clipper.  There's a script you can use, but it's not great.   And the big issue - I imported 1000 notes from EN and while it worked OK ish on the mac, my ipad froze.   Suggestion from the developer was - don't put all your notes in one folder.   Not helpful.  Oh and sync is very very slow because you're layering the app's work on top of dropbox's sync.

4. Devonthink.   DT is great if you are writing your manifesto/dissertation/research project and you've got 100s of reference docs (pdfs, clips, notes).  DT has OCR and advanced AI to search and find links in all these files.  But if you just want to organize some travel details, it is complete overkill.  Plus, it's clunky and the learning curve is awful.  It's expensive, but there are no ongoing fees.  DT is a research grade program.  

5. Google Keep.  Is a bit of a joke really.

6. Notion.   If you like spending a lot of time arranging things on a desktop then it's great.  But it's still a proprietary system (unlike notebooks and devonthink where your content is stored in open files).  And again - how do you know Notion will be around tomorrow.

7. OneNote.  On the Mac it is pretty bad.  They finally added search for to-dos, but you can't really create tags.   On windows it's pretty good.  Exporting from Onenote is not good.   For example pdfs get exported as multi page image files.  

 

So I am 100% back to evernote.  It has issues, sure, it's not perfect, but it's a lot better (at least for me) than the alternatives.

Here are a few of my most fave things about Evernote.

1. Drag a note onto another note to create an instant link in that note.  This is so awesome - I create master reference notes super easily.

2. You can search for unchecked to-dos.

3. You can save searches.

4. It is fast.

5. Even though your data is in evernote format, my experience has been that if you want to extract it to other programs, you always can.  You have an exit strategy.

Sure it costs.  But I pay for Dropbox, I pay for Lightroom, I don't mind paying for Evernote.  If you think you can get a good robust app for no-money then you are kidding yourself.

Anyhow, just my 2 cents.  

[DTLow 5,736]

17 minutes ago, gatorbrit said:

I decided to try out alternatives.   Here's what I found.

You will find pros and cons with every service.

For me, a most important feature is the ease in exporting my data; I don't want to locked into any service.

Evernote makes it easy to export our data.

[friz 19]

39 minutes ago, gatorbrit said:

.. here are my thoughts/experiences...

Wish I could 💙this post ~100 more times.

[PinkElephant 8,115]

Thanks for the list. I would like to add to it

6) Solid Apps for all mayor operation systems, including mobile, plus a good perspective that these apps will behave more and more consolidated / similar because management starts to make this a priority. Automatic sync with notes history (versioning) on the cloud server to make sure you do not loose information.

Who today is still only working on only one OS and on only one device  ? And because search on the mobiles is done server based, it is still lightning fast and as reliable as on the desktops. I am always amazed when if have to access my info base from somewhere, and I just get what I need in a blink.

[s2sailor 2,199]

5 hours ago, gatorbrit said:

.. here are my thoughts/experiences.

Nicely done.  For the alternatives I've tried, my thoughts mimic yours.

[gatorbrit 70]

21 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Nicely done.  For the alternatives I've tried, my thoughts mimic yours.

This was the first time in several years that I really went down the rabbit hole of checking out alternatives.  The grass really isn't greener on the other side!

I would add that I am really encouraged by what we're hearing from the EN management  - these new videos are excellent.  Can't wait to get my hands on the new editor!

 

[friz 19]

10 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Nicely done.  For the alternatives I've tried, my thoughts mimic yours.

Same. I've tried all the others listed w/the exception of Notebooks.app, and this post has saved me from going down the rabbit hole with that.

Couple things I'll add:

- OneNote: I agree that the Mac version is pretty bad, though it's gotten better over time. Beside the Mac experience being completely different from the PC version and being very limited as far as features in comparison, I've been burned a few times over the years. I've been locked out of my notes twice simply from trying to get the email-to feature working. Not as a security issue, but as the result of my account actually breaking. Sudden formatting issues (across all notes), a corrupted notebook, etc.

FWIW, the OneNote web clipper Chrome extension is nice and clean, easy to use.

- Bear: it's a gorgeous app and runs with no problems for me, and I like that it supports markdown, but Evernote's OCR (none in Bear) and web clipper are things I use all the time -- big part of my workflow. Bear has a web clipper, but it's very limited at the moment.

Bear has a much better code formatting feature than Evernote, though, which is hard to let go.

[drzk 3]

Evenote is the best overall. I am constantly trying alternatives and always coming back. The only problem for me with Evernote is that I really would like to see native support for Markdown. Please.

[Mike McGowan 36]

20 hours ago, gatorbrit said:

Sure it costs.  But I pay for Dropbox, I pay for Lightroom, I don't mind paying for Evernote.  If you think you can get a good robust app for no-money then you are kidding yourself.

Here, here.    We should be willing to pay for services that make our lives better.   (Full disclosure, I work in the SW industry).   I hope (perhaps naively) it's not too late to put that genie back in the bottle in the Social Media space. 

[PinkElephant 8,115]

It is easy: If I do not pay, but want to use, the company will take care that ends are met. Always !

With "free" services, in these days we usually pay with our data and profiles. This must not be all bad (personalized ads are not necessarily worse than getting just stuff), but it happens out of our control. And when the Elephants meet and make an even bigger elephant, profiling gets IMHO more and more critical.

When I pay for a service, I have a legal position to control what happens out there with what I do and save. Under the new European legislation, breaching the security of customer data can get incredibly expensive. Even just not taking care cost a lot of money.

So for me as long as it is reasonable and offers a fair value, paying for a service that I use as much as EN is o.k.

[DTLow 5,736]

17 hours ago, drzk said:

The only problem for me with Evernote is that I really would like to see native support for Markdown. Please.

Evernote's native format is currently enml/html.

Are you suggesting a switch to Markdown, or duo native formats?

[jefito 5,589]

17 hours ago, drzk said:

The only problem for me with Evernote is that I really would like to see native support for Markdown. Please.

Previously requested and amply discussed (though not so much by Evernote staff, f I recall correctly) here: 

 

[PinkElephant 8,115]

Yes, this draws a lot of attention by users, and there is reason for this: If you are blogging or posting, the likely workflow looks like:

                        Idea <=> Reserach (web) => clipping & saving => drafting => polishing => publishing

Currently there is an enforced break in this workflow because the tool you use for collecting ideas and drafting (EN) lacks a critical feature for polishing & publishing: Markdown support.

So for a common usecase, EN could massively improve on the users workflows.

[Jeffsky 37]

I too have searched for alternatives, due to some of Evernote’s operating issues and inability to deliver on some promised capabilities. Unfortunately, from what I have seen, Evernote is still #1.  I am premium and have been using Evernote from their early days.   With respect to cost, it drives me crazy when people want a quality service for free.  This is exactly the reason most goods in this country are manufactured in China.  You get what you pay for.  Free does not exist!   Companies need to make money!!  Free is temporary or you are paying through annoying ads or by giving away your information, which has much more value than you would be willing to pay!

With this said, I am ok with paying a fair price for Evernote.  But, if Evernote is going to charge for their service, they at least need to honestly respond to our requests and concerns.  If all resources are  focused on putting out fires and keeping up the the unenviable job of ensuing Evernote works with the many operating system updates, I can handle that answer.   My #1 priority is keeping my data secure and not losing any of it!   I am a very loyal customer and do not want to leave Evernote.  I have not looked at other services to save money.  Why would I, if Evernote delivered quality service at a fair price?   Maybe I am not the norm here.  Maybe most other customers are always looking for a  better price or a free ride.  Maybe the internet has ruined a company’s ability to compete by delivering better service, rather than a better price.   But, I don’t think I am wrong.  I pray I am not, or we are all doomed to accept mediocrity or worse, just Free!

Jeffsky29@gmail.com

[DTLow 5,736]

1 hour ago, Jeffsky said:

Unfortunately, from what I have seen, Evernote is still #1.

I wouldn't use the word "unfortunately".  It is what it is

When I need word processing, I use MS Word
When I need a spreadsheet,  I use MS Excel
When I need document storage/organization, I use Evernote

I know some say Evernote should handle word processing, and handle spreadsheets, and handle ....

>>they at least need to honestly respond to our requests and concerns

There's a story about Henry Ford not responding to his customers requests and concerns - they wanted faster horses

[gazumped 11,666]

15 minutes ago, Jeffsky said:

if Evernote is going to charge for their service, they at least need to honestly respond to our requests and concerns.

Hi.  I pay for several different software packages - in some cases a lot more than for Evernote - and none of them are in the habit of engaging in a dialogue with individual customers about their likes and dislikes,   and how they see the service developing.  Market forces,  various investors and the management usually drive commercial choices.  The usual paying users' choice is "make the best of what you get,  or look elsewhere." 

18 minutes ago, Jeffsky said:

If all resources are  focused on putting out fires

I don't for a minute think that everyone is firefighting - there's a lot of product development,  direct user support and general maintenance going on.  The new CEO is making all the right noises about restoring confidence in the product,  and recent behind the scenes videos have been interesting...

My general attitude for all software has always been to use the application that best suits my current workload,  even if I have to make some adjustments to my processes to accommodate it. (This dates back to the early days of computer systems when the phrase "we don't use that box" became a standing joke - there were always fields that seemed like a good idea when a system was introduced,  but turned out to be useless - or used for something completely different - soon after.)

I agree with you that as long as my data is safe,  and I can see a way it could be transferred to another application if and when that becomes necessary,  I'll continue to use an app until I absolutely have to use another.  Meantime I watch with interest as other companies come and go,  and keep a mental list of possible alternatives...

[Jeffsky 37]

1 hour ago, DTLow said:

I wouldn't use the word "unfortunately".  It is what it is

When I need word processing, I use MS Word
When I need a spreadsheet,  I use MS Excel
When I need document storage/organization, I use Evernote

 

 

To be clear, when I said “unfortunately”, it was in regards to there being no one nipping at Evernote’s heels   The only winner without competition is the company, not the consumer.   But, I must admit Evernote has come a long way without a real competitor.  Kudos to them.  

Competition is healthy - It helps expedite improvement for consumers.  Without competition we would still be using rotary phones and paying cost per minute to other states.  For the record, this is coming from a sales leader in the IT industry for more than 30 years.   

With respect to your comment re: use the software built for your need.   I 100% agree.  I only have one capability (merging notes in IOS) gripe, but this is not a specific capability improvement discussion.    

We obviously are all in this discussion for the same reason - we have an affinity for Evernote and a vested interest in Evernote for ourselves and the many folks using it based on our recommendation.   

[Jeffsky 37]

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

Hi.  I pay for several different software packages - in some cases a lot more than for Evernote - and none of them are in the habit of engaging in a dialogue with individual customers about their likes and dislikes,   and how they see the service developing.  Market forces,  various investors and the management usually drive commercial choices.  The usual paying users' choice is "make the best of what you get,  or look elsewhere." 

I don't for a minute think that everyone is firefighting - there's a lot of product development,  direct user support and general maintenance going on.  The new CEO is making all the right noises about restoring confidence in the product,  and recent behind the scenes videos have been interesting...

My general attitude for all software has always been to use the application that best suits my current workload,  even if I have to make some adjustments to my processes to accommodate it. (This dates back to the early days of computer systems when the phrase "we don't use that box" became a standing joke - there were always fields that seemed like a good idea when a system was introduced,  but turned out to be useless - or used for something completely different - soon after.)

I agree with you that as long as my data is safe,  and I can see a way it could be transferred to another application if and when that becomes necessary,  I'll continue to use an app until I absolutely have to use another.  Meantime I watch with interest as other companies come and go,  and keep a mental list of possible alternatives...

You took my comment a little too literal.  I do not expect Microsoft for example to make changes to their product in response to user every request, let alone respond to every user request.  In Evernote’s case, there is a request from many users, quite a few years old, for a capability that has been responded to with “we are working on it”.   If there is not a large enough user base asking for something, or if it just isn’t a priority, at least set the community’s expectation appropriately.   

In your above statement re:   “market forces”, I assume you are including their existing customer base?  

[jefito 5,589]

14 minutes ago, Jeffsky said:

But, I must admit Evernote has come a long way without a real competitor.

?? What a puzzling statement. There's plenty of competition for Evernote, and has been since I started using it over 10 years ago. Are you saying that OneNote isn't competition? Bear? Notion? et.c, etc. Do a web lookup on "alternatives to Evernote". These all seem to be viable competitors in one way or another, each with its own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Jeffsky 37]

I said “Real Competitor”.   They may be viewed as competitors in a google search, but that does not make them true competitors for a large percentage of Evernote’s base. How can they compete without the ability to come close in many of the areas that make us Evernote cusomers?  (I.e. Search functionality).   

The other apps are like college teams competing with pro teams.   Would you call them competitors?    Right now Evernote is in a league of its own.   I only wish one of the companies would step up their game to truly compete.  Or, maybe they don’t see Evernote’s market worthy to compete for - Too big of an investment, for too small of a customer base.   

[jefito 5,589]

2 hours ago, Jeffsky said:

I said “Real Competitor”.   They may be viewed as competitors in a google search, but that does not make them true competitors for a large percentage of Evernote’s base. How can they compete without the ability to come close in many of the areas that make us Evernote cusomers?  (I.e. Search functionality).   

The other apps are like college teams competing with pro teams.   Would you call them competitors?    Right now Evernote is in a league of its own.   I only wish one of the companies would step up their game to truly compete.  Or, maybe they don’t see Evernote’s market worthy to compete for - Too big of an investment, for too small of a customer base.   

Competition is competition. If Evernote is "winning", whatever that means (and I don't have any idea how many users there are for each application), that doesn't make the competitors unreal in any sense. They're more or less in the same realm of functionality, but they all have their own aims, styles, and approaches, and each has their own audience. OneNote is plenty "real", for example, and lots of folks use it. Ditto the others. It would be interesting to put real numbers on the how many people use different applications, though.

 

[emmgee 39]

My plea to Evernote:  Please give me a reason not to look around.  I read the list in the original post and noted one reason not to consider Notion:  "...how do you know Notion will be around tomorrow?"  My first note in Evernote is dated 1/3/2009.  I didn't think too hard about whether Evernote would be around "tomorrow".  I loved the new idea that Evernote brought to the market and wanted to try it.  That question is irrelevant to me at the moment as well.

Here's what is making me look around.  Evernote on Windows has barely changed in years.  It is getting long in the tooth.  Microsoft Office was the same way until the new CEO came along and kicked some butts.  There has been a ton of innovation in recent years, a lot of which I really like and use on a daily basis.  It isn't perfect but it keeps evolving and I have confidence that it will evolve some more.  I'm not looking around for an alternative to Microsoft Office.

I am playing around with Notion.  It's kind of hard to learn because they've crammed so much into it.  I don't think I'll need a Kanban board and some of the other things they've thrown in.  But you can sense the electricity surrounding the product.  New things are coming out all the time.  There is some serious innovation going on there.  I think it's worth a look.

Nothing innovative is going on at Evernote.  Six months after the new CEO arrived and told everyone that brighter days are ahead – nothing.  I suppose there is a lot of refactoring and other under-the-hood stuff.  All well and good.  But I have zero confidence at this point that any true innovation is on the horizon.  I would love to see some signs.  Otherwise, I'm going to keep looking around.  I'm going to try a few things in Notion.  Odds are that once someone is loose in the saddle, they aren't going to renew their premium Evernote subscription.

[ObviousBob 140]

5 minutes ago, emmgee said:

Nothing innovative is going on at Evernote.  Six months after the new CEO arrived and told everyone that brighter days are ahead – nothing. 

Not sure this is a fair characterization. It is true that new stuff hasn't been released yet, but if you have seen for instance the video on redesigning the editor, it does appear that big changes are being worked on. Hopefully this stuff will see a release to the real world soon. 

[PinkElephant 8,115]

It is for sure not a fair characterization.

Ian Small has posted a new information on the editor improvements a couple of hours ago, telling a bit about how they involve users in the different stages of testing, and how they treat the input they receive from the field tests. A lot is of course de-bugging, but with some things they go back and try to include them into the new release.

This guy knows what he talks about, and I especially like his repeated promises not to promise, but to deliver, in high quality and with proven features.

For me, he is a man to be taken by his word.

[PinkElephant 8,115]

2 hours ago, Ian Small said:

Hi everyone -

 

Dropping back out of lurking mode to provide some additional insight and to reflect on some of the threads above….  There is lots of valuable feedback in this discussion - thank you!

 

I’m sorry if we have disappointed some of you with a perceived lack of responsiveness in the comment threads on these videos.  As you would probably expect, our top priority is listening for input and watching for new insights that emerge from these forums and also from all the other community and social mechanisms through which these videos are distributed.

 

During initial design, we focus on talking to and learning from individual users.  When we move into preview releases, we engage one-on-one with tens and hundreds of users.  As we ramp tests to thousands, tens of thousands and ultimately into millions of users, we start looking increasingly to quantitative data to inform how successful we are being because the conversation doesn't scale otherwise.  That’s just the simple mechanics of how things need to work at the scale of Evernote.

 

Concretely, the new note editor has been out in preview release with select Evernote web users for the last 75 days, ramping from a few hundred users trialing very early builds to now thousands of users kicking the tires in a larger-scale (but still early) beta.  In the private discussion attached to that original preview program, the conversation around some of the same topics raised here has been intense, resulting not just in bug fixes but also in changes in design and implementation that we are still continuing to work on as I type this.  Understandably, we have focussed our energy on going back and forth with and supporting users who are evaluating this build for us in the wild.  (Some of you on this discussion are also involved in the private preview program discussion; thank you for your feedback and contributions there!)

 

This is not to say that we don’t value your responses to these videos.  As I said above, we read every one to look for new insights and observations.  In general, I think that the early response to the first few Behind the Scenes videos has proven that our decision to start communicating with the community through this video mechanism has been a good one.  However, I recognize that as we increase this style of communication out to you, it naturally bumps up your expectation of our ability to be able to engage both interactively and on a lot of fronts at the same time.

 

We’ll do our best to engage as we are able, but our priorities internally are clear:

• First and foremost, we need to focus on shipping quality software that delivers the more coherent and consistent Evernote experience that I blogged about earlier this year.  We are still relatively early in that process; we have a long way to go.
• When we are able to engage, we try to prioritize interactions that inform us of how to refine the software in flight, or to identify and eliminate bugs.  That means we won’t necessarily be able to circle around to catch everyone up across all the different communication channels and all the threads.  Apologies.
• And finally, I want to get us out of the habit of making promises we don’t meet.  I am not a fan of making commitments we're not 100% sure we can deliver on.  So unfortunately that means most of your questions about additional feature X, anticipated delivery date Y, and what about Z - no matter how reasonable! - are likely going to go unanswered until we can back up an answer with facts, or better yet, software.

I truly appreciate your ongoing patience with us while we focus as much energy as we are able to muster on building a better Evernote for you.  We are trying to test everything we are doing early and often.  And we continue to listen to the feedback from those tests and to evolve in response to that feedback.

 

Finally, for those of you who have stuck with this post this far… we know tags are super important to a significant percentage of our user base.  (As an aside, we’re trying to improve support for them on Evernote implementations where tags are currently and inexplicably somewhat second-class citizens.).  Tags in the modern Evernote web environment aren’t hidden behind a click.  They have always been shown at the bottom of the note editor screen (a particularly observant s2sailor noticed this in the video - full points!), which is different than where they are on the Windows build or on the Mac build.  There are advantages to this, and as has been observed in this thread, there are also clearly some disadvantages as well.  This continues to be a source of ongoing discussion internally.

 

Going back to lurking now.  And probably shooting another video in my copious spare time...

 

ian

Here the posting in total ...

[jefito 5,589]

2 hours ago, emmgee said:

My plea to Evernote:  Please give me a reason not to look around. 

What a strange thing to say. Wonder if that's something I should say to my S. O.? "Honey, I love you, but you need to step it up or else I'm going to start looking for something better." Really?

Ok, not a great analogy, but still. Because in truth, you should be looking around. What's the harm in it? That you might find a tool that suits your needs better than Evernote does? Always a possibility. Or maybe you dig a little and find out that the Evernote grass is actually greener than someone else's. Ok, so now you're better informed.

The fact of the matter is that we all all are independent actors, Evernote users and Evernote itself, and we should be looking out for our own needs. Mine are going to be different than yours, and Evernote's is certainly going to be different than both of ours (a company needs to strike a balance among sustainability/profitability, reliability, and innovation; all have costs). The features that made Evernote appealing in the past is probably still there; they are for me. So Notion is the new hotness, but trying to start over in a new product that has some learning curve and isn't an easy analogue to Evernote isn't a trivial undertaking that I'm willing to invest a lot of time into. And maybe Notion appears to be innovating so rapidly because they started fresh, but where's the sustainability? We don't know yet; let's see where things lie 5 years from now, and then we can talk. But that's just me; we each need to decide how best to array various tools to suit our own needs.

[jefito 5,589]

29 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Here the posting in total ...

Please consider posting a link to other people's posts if they're lengthy, rather than quoting them...

[Atul Mishra 14]

On 6/9/2019 at 8:10 PM, Jeffsky said:

I too have searched for alternatives, due to some of Evernote’s operating issues and inability to deliver on some promised capabilities. Unfortunately, from what I have seen, Evernote is still #1.  I am premium and have been using Evernote from their early days.   With respect to cost, it drives me crazy when people want a quality service for free.  This is exactly the reason most goods in this country are manufactured in China.  You get what you pay for.  Free does not exist!   Companies need to make money!!  Free is temporary or you are paying through annoying ads or by giving away your information, which has much more value than you would be willing to pay!

With this said, I am ok with paying a fair price for Evernote.  But, if Evernote is going to charge for their service, they at least need to honestly respond to our requests and concerns.  If all resources are  focused on putting out fires and keeping up the the unenviable job of ensuing Evernote works with the many operating system updates, I can handle that answer.   My #1 priority is keeping my data secure and not losing any of it!   I am a very loyal customer and do not want to leave Evernote.  I have not looked at other services to save money.  Why would I, if Evernote delivered quality service at a fair price?   Maybe I am not the norm here.  Maybe most other customers are always looking for a  better price or a free ride.  Maybe the internet has ruined a company’s ability to compete by delivering better service, rather than a better price.   But, I don’t think I am wrong.  I pray I am not, or we are all doomed to accept mediocrity or worse, just Free!

Jeffsky29@gmail.com

I agree with you that people should pay for what they want. I am a student and i don't mind paying (the current pricing) for EN premium-ship. With the premium service in hand, I can search inside all the PDF, books, images instantly, can access the notes offline  (mobile) and on personal PC, college PC, my mobile (over two devices), AI suggested notes, version history of notes. Besides data security, and not losing any of it, for students, search feature should not miss any relevant note (that may happen because of poor OCR algorithm or whatever reason), which might cost them in their exams and later in their future. 

[PinkElephant 8,115]

@Atul MishraSearch is pretty solid, OCR is sometimes off, and depending a lot on the original copy if created by scanning (fonts, print quality, alignment etc.).

Hint: If a pdf was OCRed before, EN will not OCR it again. Then the original OCR is decisive for search quality.

To test the quality of your own OCR (from an app, software like Nuance delivered with many scanners etc.), create some documents of different print quality with your own OCR and without, upload them, wait a little until EN servers did their OCR, and compare the results by performing some searches.

This can not be done directly, because the original OCR will be embedded in the pdf file, whereas EN will not modify the uploaded file.

The safest way to recover what you need is adding your own information to a note, be it by a „speaking“ title, tags or text written to the note itself. On a Mac, the Spotlight search currently will only find note text from the titles (no tags, no text within notes). I prefer tagging.

[emmgee 39]

Reply to my own post above.  Two things:

I work for a company that creates products that are sold to business customers.  We have stiff competition.  Our company is doing well because our products are pretty good as evidenced by our annual sales, profits, and market share.  I get a salary from the proceeds which helps me meet my personal and family commitments.  If we fail to innovate, that all could change.  So I have a personal motivation to listen to customers and do what I can do to keep our products competitive and our company profitable.  It helps customers, helps the people in my company, and it helps me.

If our company is backsliding and our current customers are being tempted to "defect", I would hope that they would say something to us like I did above, including "please don't give us a reason to defect".  I like to say "businesses don't do business with businesses, people do business with people".  This is another reason why I feel like I have a personal relationship with Evernote.  It isn't a transnational relationship.  The Evernote people have created a product that has made my life better.  So why wouldn't I try to get their attention?

Second thing:  Since posting above, I have been experimenting with Notion.  I've watched a lot of YouTube videos and purchased an online training course.  I go between watching those resources and trying things out in my Notion account.  My assessment:  Notion is pretty darn good.  What's likely to happen next:  Notion looks like it could become my "daily driver".

[Jeffsky 37]

8 minutes ago, emmgee said:

Reply to my own post above.  Two things:

I work for a company that creates products that are sold to business customers.  We have stiff competition.  Our company is doing well because our products are pretty good as evidenced by our annual sales, profits, and market share.  I get a salary from the proceeds which helps me meet my personal and family commitments.  If we fail to innovate, that all could change.  So I have a personal motivation to listen to customers and do what I can do to keep our products competitive and our company profitable.  It helps customers, helps the people in my company, and it helps me.

If our company is backsliding and our current customers are being tempted to "defect", I would hope that they would say something to us like I did above, including "please don't give us a reason to defect".  I like to say "businesses don't do business with businesses, people do business with people".  This is another reason why I feel like I have a personal relationship with Evernote.  It isn't a transnational relationship.  The Evernote people have created a product that has made my life better.  So why wouldn't I try to get their attention?

Second thing:  Since posting above, I have been experimenting with Notion.  I've watched a lot of YouTube videos and purchased an online training course.  I go between watching those resources and trying things out in my Notion account.  My assessment:  Notion is pretty darn good.  What's likely to happen next:  Notion looks like it could become my "every-day driver".

Well Said!   

[PinkElephant 8,115]

Generally there are 2 starting positions:

One before you get involved with a service. You have everything in the open, no investment into one service, no price to pay when you switch over. But on the other hand you just know what they tell you, and you will not have a solid picture of your own usecase and workflows.

The other when you already build a significant structure with one of the providers, have invested time and effort, probably learned about and adapted your usecase and workflow to the abilities of the service you use. 

At the moment I am making this experience, sort of. I worked with Windows PCs for the major part of my professional and private life, and am just now switching to a Mac. Some things work better, others show surprising deficiencies (like the ScanSnap software for Mac).

So pick your choice, don’t worry, be happy. To stay on should be a choice of it’s own,  not just gravity.

P.S. I personally stick with EN for the time being. 1st it offers solid, reliable and performant service for the money, and 2nd I like what I see in recent management communication and release quality. 

[Coffee First Thing 112]

On 6/9/2019 at 11:40 PM, Jeffsky said:

I've dabbled in other note taking services, and I agree that match Evernote's capabilities, especially when it comes to its cross-platform abilities. I pay for premium. I used Evernote on multiple Android devices, Windows and a Chromebook. No other note taking app or service matches Evernote's ease of use, cross platform ability and reliability. I've never lost a note and that's important. 

 

On 6/9/2019 at 11:40 PM, Jeffsky said:

 

I too have searched for alternatives, due to some of Evernote’s operating issues and inability to deliver on some promised capabilities. Unfortunately, from what I have seen, Evernote is still #1.  I am premium and have been using Evernote from their early days.   With respect to cost, it drives me crazy when people want a quality service for free.  This is exactly the reason most goods in this country are manufactured in China.  You get what you pay for.  Free does not exist!   Companies need to make money!!  Free is temporary or you are paying through annoying ads or by giving away your information, which has much more value than you would be willing to pay!

 

Jeffsky29@gmail.com

 

[bounce 74]

The only one that comes close to EN for me is Notion. I’ve been slowly adding things to it and there is a lot to like such as the ability to quickly link notes to notes, to do features and collapsible text blocks.

The things I don’t like are that it is slow with 1000 plus notes, there is no local storage for offline use and the mobile experience leaves a lot to be desired. That said, the iOS experience with Evernote has gone backwards for me recently. It crashes a lot when swiping away from it and back. I just renewed Evernote for a year and in that time I hope Evernote steps it up with stability and a few new features. If not, I can easily see myself using Notion.

[Jeffsky 37]

Well said and ditto!

[Wanderling Reborn 185]

On 6/9/2019 at 1:59 PM, Jeffsky said:

I said “Real Competitor”.   They may be viewed as competitors in a google search, but that does not make them true competitors for a large percentage of Evernote’s base. How can they compete without the ability to come close in many of the areas that make us Evernote cusomers?  (I.e. Search functionality).   

That make YOU Evernote customers. What you are basically saying is that Evernote is a perfect solution for the specific user base that loves the way Evernote works. I.e. die hard EN fans. Which is fine and true. But there is real competition out there, and has been for a while now.

On 6/9/2019 at 1:59 PM, Jeffsky said:

The other apps are like college teams competing with pro teams.   Would you call them competitors?    Right now Evernote is in a league of its own.   I only wish one of the companies would step up their game to truly compete.  Or, maybe they don’t see Evernote’s market worthy to compete for - Too big of an investment, for too small of a customer base.   

Again, only when you are talking about die hard Evernote users for which, if it doesn't work like Evernote, it's not going to work.

 

[PinkElephant 8,115]

Good there is competition. And good everybody has a choice (or better some of them).

Bad is when somebody locks himself into one solution, does not like it and starts whining around how miserable the world has become. You can IMHO find examples here in the forum.

One thing I like about EN: If you do not like it (any more), there are migration possibilities into other solutions. EN does not make leaving difficult, they are not locking users in. This possibility to take my data and leave is something I would always check before starting into something new.