Evernote Alternatives that work in both MacOS and Windows...?

[kkarney 124]

Since Evernote Legacy appears to be going away, and since nobody at Evernote will either give any firm info on that or express any concern over those of us who are reliant on its features, I would like to find an alternative. I do need something that works both with Windows and MacOS.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

[HeBoIz 247]

O.k  welcome to the club. Couple of people where searching and asking for alternatives to EN Legacy since V10 came out, which is now years ago.

Answers are different and very much depending on individual use cases, but obviously there is no 1:1 replacement for all Legacy-features. (which by the way are you missing?)

And there seems to be a big group counting EN 10 to best alternative for Legacy, including me, …

[Jon/t 1,425]

The alternative to legacy is version 10. Any other app will be a bigger workflow/feature change.

[kkarney 124]

I just want to be able to sort by tag. That's all I want. Nobody will explain why this feature was taken away nor why it cannot be reinstated.

And I will admit, I am partially motivated to switch by my disappointment in EN's support (or total lack thereof). I would like to find a product developed by folks who actually give a s**t about end users. I used to think EN did. It is now quite evident that they do not.

[gazumped 11,810]

16 minutes ago, kkarney said:

nobody at Evernote will either give any firm info on that or express any concern over those of us who are reliant on its features

I think the announcements over the past three years about Legacy being replaced and the more recent big red flashes across some accounts  about outdated software might be some form of clue?

You'll find lots of comprehensive listings online in sites like https://noteapps.info or https://toolfinder.co 

And yes,  I'm another hold-out that converted about 18 months ago.  After a rocky start I actually got used to the new layout.

[Boot17 1,494]

Exactly as @HeBoIz says -- there is no 1:1 replacement and what works for some won't work for others due to use case and personal preference. Out of dozens I've tried there are two that I'm still most interested in: Obsidian and UpNote -- yet I still find myself using Evernote as my daily driver and v10 is definitely more similar to Legacy compared to anything else I've tried.. and I've personally downloaded, installed and tried a lot: Obsidian, UpNote, Standard Notes, Joplin, OneNote, NoteJoy, Bear, Dendron, Apple Notes, Notion, Notesnook, Amplenote, Nimbus Notes, Rome Research, Google Docs.

If you search these forums you'll find tons of existing conversation around this already.

Sometimes it's easier to get over some disappointment and adjust than to switch to something totally different depending on how embedded we are with the existing solution.

[kkarney 124]

3 minutes ago, gazumped said:

I think the announcements over the past three years about Legacy being replaced and the more recent big red flashes across some accounts  about outdated software might be some form of clue?

You'll find lots of comprehensive listings online in sites like https://noteapps.info or https://toolfinder.co 

And yes,  I'm another hold-out that converted about 18 months ago.  After a rocky start I actually got used to the new layout.

Oh, I've seen the announcements. But any time I ask "Why was tag sorting removed?" or "When will Legacy stop working?" I get nothing (other than a lot of folks telling me to suck it up and make the switch). I just really don't understand why those two questions are so hard to answer with actual answers. It's bad support, plain and simple.

[agsteele 2,997]

44 minutes ago, kkarney said:

But any time I ask "Why was tag sorting removed?" or "When will Legacy stop working?" I get nothing

In asking the next question I don't want to seem aggressive.  Just asking who did you ask? If your questions came to these forums then your fellow users probably can't give an answer. We just don't know.

The answer I've seen to the end of Legacy question is 'we have not made any definite plans to end Legacy'. In practice there is a big effort underway to get Legacy users to switch. I hear on the grapevine that 80% of those who were using Legacy have switched to v10. So at some point the remaining 20% will prove to be intransigent and the end will be announced. For now you'll only get the we have no plans yet answer.

As to why tag sorting wasn't built into v10 I think there will never, now, be an answer. The people who made that decision and didn't choose to build it in have left. They didn't remove tag sorting. In building v10 from the ground up they just didn't include it. The current owners have inherited the product at the state of development when the purchase was completed so will have no answer to 'why'. Perhaps it will be added in some future UI/UX update. That won't help your current dilemma.

To get an answer from Evernote then, of course, you'll need to engage with the overwhelmed support team.

 

[PinkElephant 8,349]

3 things to keep in mind:

1) Nothing was removed. Everything that is there in v10 was added - 100% new code, no carry over. If something is not there, it was either seen as not necessary or too hard to reproduce, or both.

2) Nobody ever promised a legacy clone, just build with newer technology. There is no "one legacy", because the old clients were never integrated, and each one had properties that another lacked (just as example: Tabs only on legacy Mac, Import folders only on legacy Windows). What all legacy clients have in common is a massive technological debt, which lead to a practical stalemate in the years before v10 launched. These were the old days, but they were not good at all.

3) There is a new client generation called v10, and it exists out of its own right, not because it is so nicely mimicking legacy. Nobody should expect to find exactly THAT twist he relied on for years in the new version. Often the twist will be there, but different, or in another place, but maybe the twist is missing, and that's it.

Anybody on legacy now had 3 years after the old clients were deprecated to orient himself, make market research and decide about what to do. What will happen is not that the last legacy user can turn the switch - the switch will be turned no matter if there are still some users holding out. Anybody can decide whether he will finally wants to bring a candle to find the way out.

[kkarney 124]

1 hour ago, agsteele said:

In asking the next question I don't want to seem aggressive.  Just asking who did you ask? If your questions came to these forums then your fellow users probably can't give an answer. We just don't know.

The answer I've seen to the end of Legacy question is 'we have not made any definite plans to end Legacy'. In practice there is a big effort underway to get Legacy users to switch. I hear on the grapevine that 80% of those who were using Legacy have switched to v10. So at some point the remaining 20% will prove to be intransigent and the end will be announced. For now you'll only get the we have no plans yet answer.

As to why tag sorting wasn't built into v10 I think there will never, now, be an answer. The people who made that decision and didn't choose to build it in have left. They didn't remove tag sorting. In building v10 from the ground up they just didn't include it. The current owners have inherited the product at the state of development when the purchase was completed so will have no answer to 'why'. Perhaps it will be added in some future UI/UX update. That won't help your current dilemma.

To get an answer from Evernote then, of course, you'll need to engage with the overwhelmed support team.

 

And in answering the question, I don't want to seem like a jerk, but yes, I have asked EN directly. Their overwhelmed support team has not bothered to reply to several recent emails, and I've asked the question of them before as well. No definitive answers to anything. I'm sorry, but if your support team is overwhelmed you either need to a) hire some more staff; b) improve your product so that it doesn't require so much support; or c) both of the above. 

[kkarney 124]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

3 things to keep in mind:

1) Nothing was removed. Everything that is there in v10 was added - 100% new code, no carry over. If something is not there, it was either seen as not necessary or too hard to reproduce, or both.

2) Nobody ever promised a legacy clone, just build with newer technology. There is no "one legacy", because the old clients were never integrated, and each one had properties that another lacked (just as example: Tabs only on legacy Mac, Import folders only on legacy Windows). What all legacy clients have in common is a massive technological debt, which lead to a practical stalemate in the years before v10 launched. These were the old days, but they were not good at all.

3) There is a new client generation called v10, and it exists out of its own right, not because it is so nicely mimicking legacy. Nobody should expect to find exactly THAT twist he relied on for years in the new version. Often the twist will be there, but different, or in another place, but maybe the twist is missing, and that's it.

Anybody on legacy now had 3 years after the old clients were deprecated to orient himself, make market research and decide about what to do. What will happen is not that the last legacy user can turn the switch - the switch will be turned no matter if there are still some users holding out. Anybody can decide whether he will finally wants to bring a candle to find the way out.

#1 & 2) I don't care. I'm a paying customer. I have a specific way I use EN, and if you made that go away, I have every right to be upset. 3) Actually, I think it's perfectly reasonable to think that any new version of software, even if it's brand new built from the ground up, should include all of the useful features of the old version, not the removal of same.

Now, if someone had said -- "we're deprecating Legacy on XX/XX/XXXX" that would have been helpful, and I might have started looking for an alternative sooner. But as it is, who knows when that will be? Nobody at EN, apparently. 

[CalS 5,292]

@kkarney As I recall there was little to no feedback from EN back in the day as to what was or wasn't to be ported to V10 from Legacy.  Best I remember it was acknowledged that the first version when released was not complete, that some other features from legacy would be added later.  But no list of what the add backs would be.  And that went for a while pre BS acquisition.  And who knows what assumptions and plans were shared with BS with the merger and the time the teams spent together before the closure of the EN offices. 

Net of it all, you can't sort by tags and it's anyone's guess as to if you ever will.  Like EN, BS does not provide specific feature plans.  You do indeed ask simple questions, questions that have been asked before.  IAC, It's a personal decision as to the timing of riding legacy, switching to V10, or moving on.  Good luck with it.

[Jon/t 1,425]

From what I remember of ancient conversations, the old Evernote team, when building Version 10 looked at the function/feature usage very carefully and a lot of things that were permanently removed possibly had extremely low usage.

I remember in some podcast the former CEO, Ian Small said something along the lines of tags were used by less than 5% of users, this was years ago but If correct, tag sorting usage would probably be much less.

Not good if you use it but you were after a why to tag sorting being removed.

Still, the closest workflow to legacy is still version 10.

[Bill Myers 458]

31 minutes ago, Jon/t said:

From what I remember of ancient conversations, the old Evernote team, when building Version 10 looked at the function/feature usage very carefully and a lot of things that were permanently removed possibly had extremely low usage.

It's funny, I remember a frequent criticism of Evernote prior to v10 was that it was "bloated." Then v10 came out, and it appears the Evernote team focused on including features that most users seemed to want, based on usage data. Now people are up in arms about missing features. Like the saying goes, "Sometimes you can't win for losing."

I used to love the reusable checklist feature in Evernote. That's gone, and I was told by support it likely wasn't coming back. I was PO'd for a while but then I accepted it, realizing it's likely not enough other people liked the feature. Such is life.

3 hours ago, gazumped said:

And yes,  I'm another hold-out that converted about 18 months ago.  After a rocky start I actually got used to the new layout.

I don't know how much this is worth to anyone else, but: me too. I actually like v10 better than legacy now. As always, YMMV.

[PinkElephant 8,349]

@kkarney No company needs to put everything into a new generation product as into the predecessor. Streamlining and cutting away bloat is easier when you start all over anyhow. If you don’t like it, switch to another product.

Legacy was deprecated the moment v10 released, in October 2020. From that moment the deprecated client got a grey instead of a green icon. The version count was only upped in the last digit, because there was nothing new.

Deprecated doesn’t mean it will stop working. But it means no more bug fixes, no support, no new features.

Technically the clock counted ticking with the introduction of RTE sync in May 2023. Since then it is a permanent technical burden to supply data to a legacy data structure. That was as well the moment when legacy users received a warning in their clients that can no longer be ignored.

The first is 3 years from now, the second half a year. How many more calls for action are needed ? My answer: None. Just set a date, and pull the plug. Data access is secured by using a v10 client. Mimimi by the last legacy holdouts is assured anyhow, no matter when.

So maybe be happy that it’s not my decision to take.

[agsteele 2,997]

1 hour ago, kkarney said:

And in answering the question, I don't want to seem like a jerk, but yes, I have asked EN directly. Their overwhelmed support team has not bothered to reply to several recent emails, and I've asked the question of them before as well. No definitive answers to anything. I'm sorry, but if your support team is overwhelmed you either need to a) hire some more staff; b) improve your product so that it doesn't require so much support; or c) both of the above. 

Then don't be. As I indicated, I'm just another user. It isn't my support team or my product. Getting irritated with us doesn't help you or those who try, politely, to assist.

[s2sailor 2,347]

1 hour ago, Jon/t said:

I remember in some podcast the former CEO, Ian Small said something along the lines of tags were used by less than 5% of users, this was years ago but If correct, tag sorting usage would probably be much less.

I remember that as well and was shocked to hear it.  I had assumed that anyone using Evernote was likely a tag user since EN doesn't use nested notebooks.  My takeaway from that podcast was that forum members were likely not representative of EN as a whole.

Anything being added in, or back in, at this point, will likely be viewed through a monetization lens.  Why spend development dollars on adding something if it either doesn't fix a bug or add a feature that will help increase subscriptions?

[kkarney 124]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

@kkarney No company needs to put everything into a new generation product as into the predecessor. Streamlining and cutting away bloat is easier when you start all over anyhow. If you don’t like it, switch to another product.

Legacy was deprecated the moment v10 released, in October 2020. From that moment the deprecated client got a grey instead of a green icon. The version count was only upped in the last digit, because there was nothing new.

Deprecated doesn’t mean it will stop working. But it means no more bug fixes, no support, no new features.

Technically the clock counted ticking with the introduction of RTE sync in May 2023. Since then it is a permanent technical burden to supply data to a legacy data structure. That was as well the moment when legacy users received a warning in their clients that can no longer be ignored.

The first is 3 years from now, the second half a year. How many more calls for action are needed ? My answer: None. Just set a date, and pull the plug. Data access is secured by using a v10 client. Mimimi by the last legacy holdouts is assured anyhow, no matter when.

So maybe be happy that it’s not my decision to take.

Yes, I'm extremely happy that it's not your decision to make. Your life seems to be dedicated to criticizing anyone who criticizes Evernote. I didn't come here for an argument, I was hoping to get some suggestions of alternate products -- e.g., your so diplomatically stated "If you don’t like it, switch to another product." And I'm sorry if I didn't use the exactly correct terminology -- I meant to ask when syncing to Legacy will be deprecated.

It does seem to me, however, that a company who charges for their product should offer support for it even if it's only to tell the end user that they will be SOL at a specific time. But i can't even get that common courtesy out of Evernote.

[angeatrg 25]

Apple Only : I have Bear at 30$/year (more than 100$ less than EN) and excellent value for money, sure it is only for Apple ecosystem, but the markdown format, the clean UI and tags are really nice.

To export everything, it took me about 10mn since Bear have a nice import system from Evernote.

I have deleted my EN account today after 4 year of use, the customer service took 1 month to solved my problem only to remove my discount at the last time, the product itself is bloated and not something i see surviving with the competitors.

[PinkElephant 8,349]

Thanks for elaborating - good luck.

[Boot17 1,494]

4 hours ago, angeatrg said:

Apple Only : I have Bear at 30$/year (more than 100$ less than EN) and excellent value for money, sure it is only for Apple ecosystem, but the markdown format, the clean UI and tags are really nice.

Bear is very nice and I had it at the $20 year price (grandfathered) but I let it lapse because there were several lacking features for my personal use case and as much as I liked it, I just didn't use it.

Not sure how serious OP is about finding an alternative, but the sole feature requirement they've listed so far in this thread is "I just want to be able to sort by tag."

Bear doesn't even have a list view of notes that shows the tags in the list let alone allowing you to sort on those tags, so it would seem to be a non-starter for this particular thread.

[Jon/t 1,425]

13 hours ago, s2sailor said:

I remember that as well and was shocked to hear it.  I had assumed that anyone using Evernote was likely a tag user since EN doesn't use nested notebooks.  My takeaway from that podcast was that forum members were likely not representative of EN as a whole.

 

Oh yeah. Surprised me as well. I thought I was the only one who didn't use tags

[PinkElephant 8,349]

A tagging-free EN Expert - amazing !