NEW NOTE LIMIT

[ecirbus 2]

This just keeps bugging me. I have to create another account, stop making notes, or pay. It just appeared today. Does anyone have this problem? How do you get rid of it?

[gazumped 11,737]

It's not clear where this new limitation came from,  but it does seem like the new owners are restricting all features to just a trial level.  Basically to use Evernote at all you need to be a subscriber.  I don't know if there is a way to get rid of it,  apart from the obvious...

[PinkElephant 8,241]

Well, for sure the message came from the EN server, no doubt about it. Personally I am pretty sure that this will become the official „New Free“ soon. I haven’t seen it myself on my Free accounts yet, so maybe it’s still a test balloon.

If this is implemented , it will be a trial plan, and not a plan one will use infinitely any more.

What this means, everybody needs to decide for himself.

My biggest question mark is whether users who had 1 notebook and 50 notes to find out will really decide to pay a hundred bucks (or more) per year to commit themselves.

[Mike P 2,717]

11 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

so maybe it’s still a test balloon.

I think you are right. On September 26 Frederico  said:

 

 

 

[PinkElephant 8,241]

Users = 🐇🐇🐇 ?!

That‘s ok with me, unless they start using 🐘🐘🐘 instead.

[Boot17 1,482]

4 hours ago, Mike P said:

I think you are right. On September 26 Frederico  said:

Thanks for that as I had completely missed that very interesting comment and information. Very interesting and explains a lot.

[RGB3 3]

You might try paying. Rumor has it this will eliminate the nag screen.

[gozzilla78 43]

I'm a paying user, but I often share notebooks with free accounts. I have to wait and see what will be the new behavior for sharing... It's a bumpy ride with EN lately, innit?

[Boot17 1,482]

On 10/24/2023 at 4:29 PM, ecirbus said:

How do you get rid of it?

One answer for you that I haven't seen yet is that you could try is to create a new account using a different email address and then export all your notes from your old account and create a new account and reimport them -- as long as you don't go over the old/published Free account system limits: https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/209005247-Evernote-system-limits -- which you'll most likely hit the max size of upload per month (60 MB).

So far, it looks like new accounts are unaffected from what I've seen, but I haven't seen anybody try and import a bunch of notes into a newly created account -- maybe they are watching for that, or maybe they figure the 60 MB limit will mostly prevent it anyway.

In any case, that is just a game of cat and mouse. Bending Spoons is really pushing people to pay to use. I already was of the opinion that the existing limitations of the Free plan would never work for me personally, and am now even more convinced of that (and thus, I have a subscription).

[Boot17 1,482]

14 minutes ago, gozzilla78 said:

I'm a paying user, but I often share notebooks with free accounts. I have to wait and see what will be the new behavior for sharing... It's a bumpy ride with EN lately, innit?

Yeah - I was just thinking how Bending Spoons is really shaking things up. Big picture-wise, I think they saw a great product that was undervalued and had more potential than what was currently being done with it and they went for it.

I saw someone comment recently that it's like they have the resources of a big company but are moving more like the nimbleness of a startup. If they were a startup with a new product, it obviously wouldn't impact as many users, but since they've inherited a huge legacy infrastructure with a huge user base, it's kind of hard to turn that big of an elephant this quickly without some bumps and bruises along the way IMO.

[PinkElephant 8,241]

It is very simple: The old management never made the turnaround to profitability. If a new management would just continue what the old management did for years, they would get the same results. If you look at it economically, they had weakly performing grandfathered accounts, and a huge number of non performing Free accounts. What carried the business were the paying subscribers. But if your Free option is too good, and the price for the entry level too steep, you don't win enough users from your Free tier to make up for those you will inevitably loose every year.

So the steps are obvious: Make the paid accounts attractive enough to create value, make the Free level a real trial level, with no option to use it long(er) term, and cut the old rope on which the grandfathered subscriptions are dangling.

And then the ship will float, or sink.

[gazumped 11,737]

On the general subject of sharing content,  I'd say it's worth looking at Postach.io - I know it's external,  and a whole new level of learning curve to go through,  but you do get (I believe) 5 free 'blogs' with a workable process of turning notes into web pages at a specific <name>.postach.io address with one tag,  plus unlimited blog options and password protections for subscribers.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,981]

6 hours ago, Mike P said:

I think you are right. On September 26 Frederico  said:

 

 

 

Thanks, @Mike P. My antennas kind of went up on that word "monetization" when it was first posted, and now it does look like some of the outlines of that are appearing. But this is being done in such a sneaky way, IMHO, without a simple announcement that "this is what's coming, please consider your options and prepare yourself." There's at least one other thread about this going on (see below), and I really wonder what's going to happen to the many free accounts that already have >50 notes.

 

[VincentC 274]

It's pretty common in the marketing world to put out different offers to different groups of customers, analyze who responds to what, and refine general offerings based on the response to the various trial offers.  So, I would personally be surprised if Evernote were not using these research techniques to inform their decision making.

Also, I would observe, that most app developers have the option to put out a free version and monetize the version by selling targeted advertising based on how the user (presumably anonymized) uses the app.  That's likely not an option for Evernote given their commitment to privacy. 

So, the question then becomes what is the right mix of features and fees that optimize revenue for Evernote.  There is a lot of speculation on this Forum about what that might be, but I have no doubt that the Evernote marketing folks are doing all kinds of research to get data to inform their decisions.  I would speculate that this, and the 40% "don't go away" offers that some users are seeing, are all part of this market research activity.  

Vinnie

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,981]

I will just say that after anything that starts with "in the marketing world," I find that I expect unpleasantness for the "target." Could just be me.

[PinkElephant 8,241]

The trick is to make the „target“ not feel like being a target.

[Bill Myers 458]

I'm going to express what I think will be an unpopular opinion: if you're getting something for free, you're not entitled to it. It can be taken away at any time. 

(I realize paid services can be taken away from you too, either because a company discontinues them or goes belly up. But at least they have a legal obligation to compensate you with a partial refund for your subscription. I'm not saying they will. Just that they're supposed to.)

I was wondering when, not if, Bending Spoons would tighten the restrictions on free accounts. It make sense. Evernote isn't ad-supported. 

As for whether the price for subscription plans is too steep to lure free users to sign up, all debates are moot. This will either be a good move for Bending Spoons, or it won't.

Always the broken record, I'll simply say that I find Evernote worth the cost for the moment, but if I change my mind and bail I guarantee you won't know about it. I see no reason to announce if I choose to depart. I'm not Taylor Swift. Nobody cares that much about what I do. I'm good with that.

 

 

[CoachLinda 0]

Personally, I think it's a mistake on Evernote's part. I train people to plan using a calendar and a note system. I've always promoted Evernote wholeheartedly, knowing that many would adopt this program for all their life planning, lists, and so on and eventually sign up for a paid version. The current limit doesn't allow them to really fully explore Evernote. 

I'm super disappointed in them. It seems that every time I turn around, there they are increasing their prices once again.

[gazumped 11,737]

16 hours ago, CoachLinda said:

every time I turn around, there they are increasing their prices once again

No price increase here,  just a request that if someone uses their services,  they should get paid for it.  Do you do much free training?

[Jimmy Bionic 15]

On 10/25/2023 at 1:29 AM, ecirbus said:

This just keeps bugging me. I have to create another account, stop making notes, or pay. It just appeared today. Does anyone have this problem? How do you get rid of it?

 

 

Well, yeah, it's been on the news lately with the Russian IT community buzzing too 😀

Check the neighbouring threads to make sure that you aint gone insane, and people are having the same unexpected issue too

[Jimmy Bionic 15]

My view is that Evernote does marketing the wrong way. You should target differently, folks. Some home office companies, SME etc use Evernote for synchronization their work between different employees. You can probably identify those by the number of sync requests, sharing requests and by IPs. But you seem to have chosen the way of carpet bombings 😆

[AlbertR 562]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Bionic said:

You can probably identify those by the number of sync requests, sharing requests and by IPs.

I'm sure they do exactly this to offer Teams accounts to SME-looking usage. And to be honest: Teams accounts are a very good choice 👍 (and if tagging features will be improved there, it will became a perfect choice 😉)

[Jimmy Bionic 15]

6 minutes ago, AlbertR said:

I'm sure they do exactly this to offer Teams accounts to SME-looking usage. And to be honest: Teams accounts are a very good choice 👍 (and if tagging features will be improved there, it will became a perfect choice 😉)

yeah, Joplin offers nested tags via its plugins. Evernote couldn't implement the hierarchical tags for centuries.. 🤥 That's the way they are ""working their butts off"", pardon my French. Seem to be having only marketing folks working hard. But the way they did targeting makes me believe that "marketing folks" have no relation to marketing, and in fact are their only employees

 

[AlbertR 562]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy Bionic said:

Joplin offers nested tags via its plugins. Evernote couldn't implement the hierarchical tags for centuries.. 🤥

Hmm, Plugins would make EN to get complicated to manage for teams. They're better advised to implement nested tags for Teams inside EN-core.

They know how nested tags are to be implemented (have look in non-Teams accounts 😉). But offering it in Teams means some thoughts more: There should be a possibility to define company-owned tags (and trees) together/in parallel with owner-defined ones (smoothly integrated to one tag tree). This is the challenge 🤔.

Hope they'll find a better solution than the current one (no tag tree and unclear differentiation between admin-defined and user-tags) 🙏

[Bill Myers 458]

On 11/3/2023 at 1:42 PM, CoachLinda said:

Personally, I think it's a mistake on Evernote's part. I train people to plan using a calendar and a note system. I've always promoted Evernote wholeheartedly, knowing that many would adopt this program for all their life planning, lists, and so on and eventually sign up for a paid version. The current limit doesn't allow them to really fully explore Evernote. 

I'm in sales and I can tell you from both personal experience and familiarity with scientific research that giving away a generous amount for free does not lead most customers to love you so much that they'll subsequently buy from you. It leads most people to feel entitled to the freebie, and to get angry if you take it away. Maybe your customers are different, but Bending Spoons would be wise to focus on the big picture.

On 11/3/2023 at 1:42 PM, CoachLinda said:

The current limit doesn't allow them to really fully explore Evernote. 

I'd say they can get enough of a taste to decide whether they want to sign up for a monthly subscription. They can cancel after one month if they don't like it. If that's enough to break their bank, I think they have bigger problems than Evernote's pricing. (That's not a judgment. I've been in financial dire straits before.)

On 11/3/2023 at 1:42 PM, CoachLinda said:

I'm super disappointed in them. It seems that every time I turn around, there they are increasing their prices once again.

I don't know how often you turn around, but the most recent price increase is the first in several years. As @gazumped pointed out, restricting freebies isn't a price increase. No money leaves your pocket.

[Bill Myers 458]

I posted another comment that I deleted because it was really snotty and contributed nothing of value. People can express whatever opinions the forum moderators deem within bounds. I don't have to like it. 

I posted another thread where I asked a question about GTD and some nice people chimed in with answers. I learned a few things. That was nice. Whereas tilting at windmills like this is exhausting. And not a role anyone needs me to fill.

[Jimmy Bionic 15]

6 hours ago, AlbertR said:

Hmm, Plugins would make EN to get complicated to manage for teams. They're better advised to implement nested tags for Teams inside EN-core.

Separate plugins maintained by independent developers are the way to ensure that the solution is gonna stay free for longer

[Bill Myers 458]

I just find it funny that so many in this forum insist that Bending Spoons' only path to making Evernote profitable is to give away the service with very few restrictions. It reminds me of the Underpants Gnomes from South Park, whose business plan was as follows:

Phase One: Collect underpants!

Phase Two: ?

Phase Three: Profit!

[PinkElephant 8,241]

It’s never a goal by itself to have a Free service.

One business model is to cash in on the users attention (ads) or data (tracking, other services). All this EN doesn’t do.

The other model is to onboard new users, let them use the service somewhat, and then move them to a paid level. This always was the thinking behind the Free plan - but the marketing geniuses at old EN never got it right.

BS probably looked at the percentage of Free users converting to a paid plan, which was too low. And they looked at the average time users stayed on Free, which is way too high.

And now they will stop this self destruction.

Just my thoughts about it, no inside knowledge.

[txdore 1]

Nope. Not upgrading. Not worth it. I don't need all the fancy features. Just quantity of notes and notebooks.  Guess I'll have to look at migrating to something else.

 

This stinks.  All the good free services on the web are going away. I understand companies need to make money, perhaps the power users out there are not enough. It is just frustrating considering that data center memory is so cheap compared to where we started.

[PinkElephant 8,241]

It does stink, but differently from what you think is the olfactory culprit here.

EN is not making money from users data or from sending you a ton of ads matching the notes you keep. There would be space left and right to do exactly that, you know ! But they don't, they keep the notes of their users private and respect their integrity.

All the time these Free accounts have been paid for by the marketing department, hoping these users would subscribe one day. And they got their money where ? Right, from your fellow users, recycled through the EN marketing budget.

So YOU expect ME to pay for your notes service, to put it on a personal level. If you ask me, THIS stinks indeed.