Current situation....where is Evenote PR/Marketing?

[Grant837 112]

I am an avid Evernote fan, and have strayed to other apps over the years, but always come back...

Still, I am disturbed by the lack of communications from Evernote since the take-over ( I have 11 years Europe wide marketing background). 

The last release has clearly introduced a number of serious bugs, which would be OK, if we heard from BS what they were doing to fix the problem... but alas, after more than 2 weeks of very obvious bugs, we have no insight into future improvements.

Normally I would give a provider slack, but given this is a take over, and the new owner has no experience with managing massive amounts of user data, and established functional processes, I am starting to fear the worse...

It could very well be that BS (gosh, in English, this means something else...), who are great app tool developers, have no clue about managing hosted user data, and functionally preferences... and so, will totally mess up things for us long-term users...

I ask for no solution from you all,  but rather for those stil hanging in there, what your limit is before you move on....

 

[gazumped 11,685]

9 minutes ago, Grant837 said:

the new owner has no experience with managing massive amounts of user data

Hi.  Bending Spoons allegedly has some hundreds of millions of clients of their own,  and specialises in AI and image manipulation - both requiring processing power and large file sizes,  I'd think they would be passingly familiar with large amounts of customer data...

12 minutes ago, Grant837 said:

what your limit is before you move on....

At the moment,  around 10 months until my (new,  higher) subscription runs out.

Having been involved in a couple of big company buy-outs (not always on the winning side) I do know that there are a million-and-several details to work out,  and - in case you mised it - Bending Spoons just moved the whole operation (or at least the coding bit) back to Italy to allow a little more invlvement and control,  Good news (I guess) but still more things to deal with.

The new chief exec is being pretty hands on with the onglong bugs,  and we expect new versions to be available in days.

[Federico Simionato 1,023]

We have been 100% focused on deep infrastructural work and reorganization. As we get comfortable with the stack and the new org, we'll resume other important but not critical activities, such as communication. For instance, we will reintroduce full changelogs with new releases, and we plan on posting a monthly update on the blog.

But first we had to dedicate fully to core stuff. Hopefully you'll see the benefits in the coming months.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,969]

Good post. Evernote was never good at communication with users, so this is actually not new, IMHO. But I agree, a new owner ought to mean a fresh start, but so far that fresh start has included:

• Sharp price increases for many users, bringing the price actually into line with what it should have gotten to gradually over the last 5 or 10 years, but too sudden for many users, especially because of ...
• The introduction of improved syncing and Real Time Editing without having done adequate backend preparation for the increased load, resulting in weeks of severe slowdowns and data loss, with some data loss continuing to be reported 3 months later. The new features work very well when they work at all, but it's taken too long for that to become consistent.
• The introduction of "AI note cleanup," which was requested by (apparently) no Evernote user ever, works at a mediocre-to-acceptable level, and caused serious concerns (due to poor communication!) about whether our notes were being fed into an AI machine somewhere.
• The massively incompetent v. 10.59.5 of the desktop and Web apps, which messed up searching (the most fundamental Evernote function, beyond syncing itself) and several other things, and which has continued to be foisted on users who try to remain on the previous version.
• The weird messes in the Android app, in which stylus and finger input (at least on Samsung devices) is crippled or nearly disabled, people using passcodes get white screens of death (until the whole passcode function was temporarily removed), other users get red screens of death, and the tag and other menus flash and flutter and become unusable.
• Alongside the price increases, the other event expected when a company is bought out, the firing of many experienced staff, including, it seems, programmers -- which IMHO must have something to do with the disasters in 10.59.5 and the Android app, if not in the sync/RTE issues.
• And probably stuff I'm forgetting.

@Federico Simionato has been in and out of these forums, and started a few threads offering information and requesting feedback, which have been better than nothing. But the lack of preparation for the introduction of the new sync/RTE left him with difficult explanations to make, and the incomprehensible 10.59.5 and Android chaos has not been explained at all. "We really goofed, we bit off more than we could chew, we tried to go too fast ..." anything along those lines would have been, and still would be, helpful. I appreciate his post above, but I would very respectfully suggest that communication is far from being "not critical." Of course, I do not know the facts, so I may simply be wrong about this, but I would also respectfully suggest that firing the people who already knew the infrastructure and other "core stuff" may have proven to be unwise.

You mention marketing, @Grant837, and I find myself wondering what a new user coming to Evernote for the first time would think when encountering v. 10.59.5 and finding that it could not do what it was advertised to do. Without communication from the company, it's hard to believe they'd stick around.

[Dave Green 210]

I would add the breakage of 3rd party services dependent on their now out-of-date (without replacement) api's (like Filterize).

[PinkElephant 8,142]

@Federico Simionato Nobody will dispute the necessity to focus on getting the key functions like syncing, searching and editing running on a stable footing.

On the other hand it is not usually the job of the same people looking after that to engage in communicating about it either. This often is a different function. Somebody looking at if from a communication / customer relation view could for example participate in the development process, write about it and release the information after approval by management.

Take the official YT channel - last video posted 5 months ago. Release notes - the recent release notes in the help database https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360058361833 are listing THIS for the Mac:

MAC

The most recent version is 10.57.5. Released May 17, 2023.

So if I have a problem with 10.59.5, it is not only a lack of communication. The only accessible official source of EN tells me it doesn't even exist (as the two versions before it). This is what is called a cognitive dissonance, and what it creates is a digression of trust.

From my point of view this is negligence of a key customer relation function. And it could be healed without putting a dent into restoring the technical side of the service. As it is the task of others to fix things, make it the task of somebody to talk about it.

[RJLUK 307]

13 hours ago, Federico Simionato said:

But first we had to dedicate fully to core stuff. Hopefully you'll see the benefits in the coming months.

Core?

Months?

When can we expect a version of Evernote that actually works?

[HoffaH 0]

15 hours ago, Federico Simionato said:

we'll resume other important but not critical activities, such as communication.

Communication should always be considered critical.

[Grant837 112]

15 hours ago, Federico Simionato said:

l resume other important but not critical activities, such as communication

@Federico SimionatoAh, there is nothing more important than communication with your customers... period, point blank,

Especially for a product that people and businesses really on day-to-day, and have trusted their most important information to 

Its the only way to build and maintain trust, and not lose more business, or even gain business, through happy users who recommend your product... I am sure no one is recommending Evernote to anyone right now...

This ia all MBA / Marketing 101 stuff...

PS: I will give you credit for joining in on this thread however... it's a start, now keep it up!

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,969]

9 hours ago, Grant837 said:

This ia all MBA / Marketing 101 stuff...

Thread drift: But isn't it also MBA 101 to (1) acquire a company, (2) raise prices, (3) fire lots of existing staff to cut costs? Or does it just look that way to those of us outside the business world?

[Grant837 112]

11 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Thread drift: But isn't it also MBA 101 to (1) acquire a company, (2) raise prices, (3) fire lots of existing staff to cut costs? Or does it just look that way to those of us outside the business world?

Almost. You forgot for your part - 'alienate the existing community base' 

Also, I think yours is MBA 102. This is maybe MBA 101:

1. Build a great product with an avid user base,  take investor money and be forced to carelessly add features to get public attention and create virtual value, discover you can not maintain the code,  try to fix the code, lose the user base due to lost functionality, sell the remains to another company and buy another mansion in the Hamptons...

[Kheldar3211 12]

On 8/4/2023 at 11:38 AM, Federico Simionato said:

We have been 100% focused on deep infrastructural work and reorganization. As we get comfortable with the stack and the new org, we'll resume other important but not critical activities, such as communication. For instance, we will reintroduce full changelogs with new releases, and we plan on posting a monthly update on the blog.

But first we had to dedicate fully to core stuff. Hopefully you'll see the benefits in the coming months.

This is probably the most disturbing thing I've seen. Even with all the new technical issues, this takes the cake. My clients would have booted me long ago  if I had that thought process.

[gazumped 11,685]

15 minutes ago, Kheldar321 said:

This is probably the most disturbing thing I've seen. Even with all the new technical issues, this takes the cake. My clients would have booted me long ago  if I had that thought process.

Interesting thought process.  You'd prefer they talked to us before fixing what was wrong?

[PinkElephant 8,142]

I don’t think that those who know the fixing would be obliged to do the talking.

I rather don’t hope that those who know the talking are currently trying their skills on fixing.

We can agree that at the moment we are underfixed and undertalked at the same time 😇

[Kheldar3211 12]

4 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Interesting thought process.  You'd prefer they talked to us before fixing what was wrong?

It's really situational. Does not have to be in detail or length. Something along the lines "hey, we know we have these issues, they are being worked on" and even regular updates saying "we are still working on it". When it goes dark, some people get antsy. 

When I fix something that impacts my clients I contact them (email, phone, etc) or have another team member do it. They feel much better knowing we are working on it and keeping them updated. While it's not an apples to apples comparison I still feel it applies in some fashion.

[Kheldar3211 12]

4 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

I don’t think that those who know the fixing would be obliged to do the talking.

I rather don’t hope that those who know the talking are currently trying their skills on fixing.

We can agree that at the moment we are underfixed and undertalked at the same time 😇

Totally agree with all points.

[bwydoogh 71]

On 8/4/2023 at 6:38 PM, Federico Simionato said:

but not critical activities, such as communication

No, not how to handle it. That's really not how you treat your customers. Frankly, I hope there is a clarification from your side on this.

I also feel personally addressed here because there are issues with the API, which were reported during the beta testing of the new sync. There was zero feedback from you, even after repeatedly asking for feedback (so why am I participating in such a program). In June the next issue was a fact, namely a failing integration between Readwise and Evernote. There too I got zero feedback from your side, until after 10 times or so asking for an update and x number of "follow-up" tickets I finally got a message (last week) that I should actually go to the third party with the message that "they should try some more retry" or something like that (and you guys were going to see if there was nothing to do on your side).

As a company, is it actually that hard to even give an overall picture of where you stand? I work in the software engineering sector and let's just say that we do communicate with our customers (even when things are going badly). Always taught that communication to the customer is of the utmost importance.

[WilliamL 654]

13 minutes ago, bwydoogh said:

No, not how to handle it. That's really not how you treat your customers. Frankly, I hope there is a clarification from your side on this.

I also feel personally addressed here because there are issues with the API, which were reported during the beta testing of the new sync. There was zero feedback from you, even after repeatedly asking for feedback (so why am I participating in such a program). In June the next issue was a fact, namely a failing integration between Readwise and Evernote. There too I got zero feedback from your side, until after 10 times or so asking for an update and x number of "follow-up" tickets I finally got a message (last week) that I should actually go to the third party with the message that "they should try some more retry" or something like that (and you guys were going to see if there was nothing to do on your side).

As a company, is it actually that hard to even give an overall picture of where you stand? I work in the software engineering sector and let's just say that we do communicate with our customers (even when things are going badly). Always taught that communication to the customer is of the utmost importance.

How did you get that from Federico? I think it was communication! He’s posted here many times, posted surveys, blogs even given us his email, and you’re taking issue with this? 

Federico is factually correct - without communication the app WILL function, it doesn’t affect its functioning - bugs do. From that perspective communication is important but it is not essential. 

[RJLUK 307]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Federico is factually correct - without communication the app WILL function, it doesn’t affect its functioning - bugs do. From that perspective communication is important but it is not essential. 

As a grass roots EN longterm PAYING customer I'm not really interested in his views.

He should come on here,admit EN is broken and tell us IF or WHEN it will be fixed.

Then reverse renewal fee increases for existing customers-.

60% of something is better than 100% of nothing- which is exactly what he and BS will be left with if they continue with this amateur unprofessional approach.

Many CUSTOMERS are watching and waiting- nobody is going to risk data by relying on software that is now broken- it is awaiting game- and people will only wait for so long.

[WilliamL 654]

11 minutes ago, RobertJLee said:

As a grass roots EN longterm PAYING customer I'm not really interested in his views.

He should come on here,admit EN is broken and tell us IF or WHEN it will be fixed.

Then reverse renewal fee increases for existing customers-.

60% of something is better than 100% of nothing- which is exactly what he and BS will be left with if they continue with this amateur unprofessional approach.

Many CUSTOMERS are watching and waiting- nobody is going to risk data by relying on software that is now broken- it is awaiting game- and people will only wait for so long.

Hasn’t he done exactly that on several occasions? When data was being lost during the transition to rte he was very open about the issues. The survey he recently posted admitted too there are issues. I haven’t seen anything that implies they are acting like the issues are not there, unless I’ve missed something. 

[PinkElephant 8,142]

Well, I think there are some questions not settled at the moment. What crosses my mind:

The raise of fees was more or less communicated by new features that will be developed from the revenue. Fine, but first everything was raised, grandfathered plans as well, that up to now were excluded from getting new features. That feature argument sounds hollow to me, sort of.

Second for the first time while I am with EN, we have severe loss of data, we have a feeling of our content not being secure. Many of us started to double check if content created was still there and intact after being edited and synced. I never did this, I do it now. This is eroding my trust, even when up to now I didn‘t find any problem doing so.

Third there is my feeling that there has been a massive loss of knowledge in all fields, by prematurely shutting down all operational and development teams that carried EN until recently. I have been with supplier QA - this is often exactly what happened before a supplier started to show a brutal deterioration of performance. They relocated … and left all informal, critical knowledge behind them, in the gutter of a plant shutdown.

We have had releases that were dreadfully not checked for their quality before release. Most basic functions that everybody of us would have checked as beta testers (and if only by USING the clients) were NOT checked - like basic search functions. This is devs not knowing what to develop, and QA who does not even know how to use key features when testing.

To wrap it up: Currently we get an underperforming product & service, and what we get in the field of communication does not answer the question „What the heck is going on ?!“. The only thing that HAS worked was the raise of the fees - which for me makes it feel like watching 2 movies at the same time, each one moving independently to it‘s own moment of truth.

Well, there is talk about desktop 10.59 and mobile 10.53 being right around the corner. Wait & see …

[RJLUK 307]

1 minute ago, PinkElephant said:

To wrap it up: Currently we get an underperforming product & service, and what we get in the field of communication does not answer the question „What the heck is going on ?!“. The only thing that HAS worked was the raise of the fees - which for me makes it feel like watching 2 movies at the same time, each one moving independently to it‘s own moment of truth.

Absolutely agree 100%

[Frki2 76]

4 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Well, I think there are some questions not settled at the moment. What crosses my mind:

The raise of fees was more or less communicated by new features that will be developed from the revenue. Fine, but first everything was raised, grandfathered plans as well, that up to now were excluded from getting new features. That feature argument sounds hollow to me, sort of.

Second for the first time while I am with EN, we have severe loss of data, we have a feeling of our content not being secure. Many of us started to double check if content created was still there and intact after being edited and synced. I never did this, I do it now. This is eroding my trust, even when up to now I didn‘t find any problem doing so.

Third there is my feeling that there has been a massive loss of knowledge in all fields, by prematurely shutting down all operational and development teams that carried EN until recently. I have been with supplier QA - this is often exactly what happened before a supplier started to show a brutal deterioration of performance. They relocated … and left all informal, critical knowledge behind them, in the gutter of a plant shutdown.

We have had releases that were dreadfully not checked for their quality before release. Most basic functions that everybody of us would have checked as beta testers (and if only by USING the clients) were NOT checked - like basic search functions. This is devs not knowing what to develop, and QA who does not even know how to use key features when testing.

To wrap it up: Currently we get an underperforming product & service, and what we get in the field of communication does not answer the question „What the heck is going on ?!“. The only thing that HAS worked was the raise of the fees - which for me makes it feel like watching 2 movies at the same time, each one moving independently to it‘s own moment of truth.

Well, there is talk about desktop 10.59 and mobile 10.53 being right around the corner. Wait & see …

Wasn't  for some time on forum but shocked  When @PinkElephant is so harsh it really seams ***** hit the fan. Unfortunately it looked from the start like that, and again, no communication. So wrong. As work on technical side is important and crucial but without communication there will be no customers who will need that fixes and service. So sad.  

[RJLUK 307]

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Hasn’t he done exactly that on several occasions? When data was being lost during the transition to rte he was very open about the issues. The survey he recently posted admitted too there are issues. I haven’t seen anything that implies they are acting like the issues are not there, unless I’ve missed something. 

They need to :

1. Admit last update was a disaster.
2. Explain how a broken "update" passed their QA ( as in Quality assurance as in they can't have a system)
3. Roll back last last update and provide a version that DID work.
4. Roll back 40% fees increase - a company that thinks it is ok to break a product then up it's price is deluded.

As @PinkElephant said "What the heck is going on ?!"

 

[elduko 2]

100% agreed.  Their silence about this major issue worries lots of users.

[gazumped 11,685]

11 minutes ago, elduko said:

Their silence about this major issue worries lots of users.

Well they did issue a fix...  

 

 

[WilliamL 654]

11 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Well they did issue a fix...  

 

 

They also are not silent about the issues, there have been many statements and even surveys - due to issues they admit there currently is. The idea there is silence or denial simply isn’t accurate imo.