Why does every Evernote update seem to leave less and less space for the notebook list?

[Rgstech 6]

Windows app.

I have a lot of notebooks.  Scrolling through my list of notebooks becomes more and more difficult after each update.

• Why all the blank space above my name for forward and back arrows?
• Why all the blank space above the search box?  Why did the search box even move here, instead of being above the notes list where it was in previous versions?
• Why do I need a New Note, New Task, New Event shortcut using up space in my notebook list?
• Why all the blank space below theses shortcuts?
• Why the large amount of blank space between each notebook?
• I can see 43 Excel rows on my screen with a large ribbon, 52 rows if I use full screen mode.  Why can I only see 21 notebooks at a time?

Edited June 3 by Rgstech
Changed folders to notebooks

[Cristiano478 236]

1 hora atrás, Rgstech disse:

 

Why do I need a New Note, New Task, New Event shortcut using up space in my folder list?

 

 

I really like this new button configuration. Before, to create a new note you had to click twice, now you only need to click once. They made the right decision to separate the new note button from the others because it is the most important and the one most people use. Evernote did a good job this time.

About the blank space, it doesn't bother me at all and I don't think it's excessive.

Another detail is that I always keep the bar collapsed, as shown in the image below. This gives me more space to work.

 

 

[Boot17 1,534]

30 minutes ago, Cristiano478 said:

I really like this new button configuration.

 

30 minutes ago, Cristiano478 said:

Another detail is that I always keep the bar collapsed, as shown in the image below.

Honestly (and no offense meant), that last bit makes it sound like you never even really see the new button arrangement in the expanded side bar in order to like it (or dislike it) in the first place.

They used to have the expanded side bar buttons show like the collapsed side bar (which you currently like) -- where it was just the Green "+ Note" button with the '...' button next to it (the sweet spot IMO). But now, we see the "+ Task" and "+ Event" buttons take a whole row below it.

[Mike P 2,964]

1 hour ago, Rgstech said:

I have a lot of folders.  Scrolling through my list of folders becomes more and more difficult after each update.

I'm not going to justify EN's design decisions but a couple of thoughts. You obviously already use stacks so may be fewer folders in the top level and more in stacksw would help?

If you have lots of notebooks (no such thing as folders in EN) then maybe the full screen notebook page would be better. Clicking "Notebooks" or using the keyboard shortcut (alt+ctrl+6 on Windows) opens the notebook page and positions the cursor in the notebook search box. Perhaps searching for your notebook would be more efficient than scrolling.

[Rgstech 6]

1 hour ago, Mike P said:

I'm not going to justify EN's design decisions but a couple of thoughts. You obviously already use stacks so may be fewer folders in the top level and more in stacksw would help?

If you have lots of notebooks (no such thing as folders in EN) then maybe the full screen notebook page would be better. Clicking "Notebooks" or using the keyboard shortcut (alt+ctrl+6 on Windows) opens the notebook page and positions the cursor in the notebook search box. Perhaps searching for your notebook would be more efficient than scrolling.

Thanks for the folder --> notebook clarification... I edited my original post.   The issue with creating more stacks is it creates more clicks, plus you can only stack one level deep.  I just feel the space usage could be optimized. 

 

[PinkElephant 8,772]

Notebooks and stacks are no primary means of organization. The main organizing tool are tags.

If you clinch to the notebook list, it is often a sign you use a weakly performing organizational strategy that puts notebooks first.

[Rgstech 6]

15 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Notebooks and stacks are no primary means of organization. The main organizing tool are tags.

If you clinch to the notebook list, it is often a sign you use a weakly performing organizational strategy that puts notebooks first.

Please explain.  I use Evernote for both personal and business.  For business, I have a notebook for each client.  I have a standard subset of notes in each client's notebooks, such as yearly budgets, projects, accounts, etc.  If I need to look up the 2024 budget for a particular client, I click on the client notebook and scroll to the budget, which is always near the top of the notes list, as I sort notes by date updated.  How would tags expedite this process?

[mackid1993 1,236]

The blank space will be addressed, they actually released a redesigned top bar (I had it for a day) but Federico said it broke keyboard shortcuts so they rolled it back. It sounds like it's taking some time to rework. I'd rather allow them time to let new features bake. 

[PinkElephant 8,772]

@Rgstech All clients in one notebook. One tag for each client. One tag "Budget" for all budget related notes. Maybe a Year tag, because often budgeting is a yearly, recurring issue.

If used often, a saved search for client/budget/year combinations.

We have "extreme" taggers who use one notebook for everything.

We have many mixed systems, for example with one stack for "Business" and one Stack for "Private". Inside of them are a few notebooks, but only a handful. I am in this group.

Workflows are easier build by tags. Say you have a project with a client. You set up a note where you collect all project related expenses (hours, invoices, travel expenses, etc.). While the project is ongoing it is tagged as "WIP" (work in progress), plus with the Client, the Project and the Year, all as tags. You just dump stuff inside.

Say you want to invoice. The note is opened, the content reviewed and organized. An invoice it drafted. New tag "Draft", maybe with "myInvoice" tag. Invoice is done, you send it, and change the Draft to "Send". Maybe add a reminder at the due date (OK, reminders are a bit critical, because EN staff seems to remove them. So use a task). The note comes up, you check, either it's paid (Tag: Paid) or you need to remind (Tag: Remind), and add a new task with another date. Once the money is collected, you tag with Paid.

Note that the other tags remain - you will always find it looking for the client (use a nested structure to be able to find groups of clients or all clients), the year or the project.

This is just an example. Tags avoid 2 things: Moving / duplicating notes between notebooks, or having a rigid system because it is a tree, and you need to decide which is the main principle for the tree. Tags are like having a tree for clients plus a tree for years plus a tree for the content plus a tree for people (sales reps etc.) plus ... - all at the same time.

Personally I have one other use for notebooks: Sharing. If you share a notebook, every note you move inside is shared, automatically. Every note removed is unshared. And when you close the sharing and delete the notebook (please always this sequence, not simply deleting the notebook without unsharing), all shared content is withdrawn.

When I do projects with a customer, I often set up a shared notebook, that is used for the project. When the project is over, I unshare it, and archive the notebook as an ENEX file. This is possible with notebooks, not with tags. Tags can be used in addition, even on these shared notebooks.

[bumblebeenero 18]

47 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

We have "extreme" taggers who use one notebook for everything.

Do the "extreme" taggers really use Evernote at all?

Here's my experience with tags. Originally, I organized my setup based on tags because I heard from some Evernote guru that tags are the main organizational tools in Evernote. I have multiple tags attached to almost all my notes. Tags enable me to have a single note in many places.

If I click on a tag, I can see all my notes with that particular tag and/or sub-tags. I feel this is the primary advantage a digital note-keeping software has over physical notebooks - the organization is more fluid and multi-level and of course, unlike in physical notebook, you can just go back and edit your digital notebook to your heart's liking. But, this is where the party ends!

There's one more crucial thing that I expect of a digital note-taking software - linking of notes. Evernote introduced a new feature - I was like hey! let's put this feature to use. As dumb as I was, not knowing what Evernote was/is going through, I linked hundreds of notes only to find that I can't use them when filtering notes by tags!

The problem with using tags as your primary organizational tool - The internal links simply don't work.

If I want to link my notes, I have to use notebooks as my primary organizational tool. So, I have had to re-organize my Evernote because I wanted to use internal links. It was time-consuming and obviously, not-a-pleasant experience. I still use tags but don't click on links when my notes are filtered by tags. 

I guess there must be other dumb people like me who use notebooks instead of tags. I sometimes regret the amount of time I have spent on Evernote organizing and re-organizing and finding workarounds because something or the other is always broken. I stick with Evernote because there is still no parallel in the market for my workflow. But, I have to say, using Evernote has been a bumpy ride at the least.

[PinkElephant 8,772]

No idea what you are talking about. Links have their specific use, and it’s different from tags.

OK the Zettelkasten followers try to use links in a way similar to tags (just that it doesn’t work out).

I use links to make point connections between individual notes. I use tags to create dynamic categories or groups of notes that share a specific aspect.

Each thing for it’s use case.

Hints: My linked notes work with or without tags. These 2 concepts are unrelated.

After an export, tags are still there. Links will be broken.

[Mike P 2,964]

5 hours ago, bumblebeenero said:

The problem with using tags as your primary organizational tool - The internal links simply don't work.

You are absolutely right and it is completely incomprehensible to me that this isn't getting more attention from either EN or users. It is not even only if the note is in a list filtered by a tag. If the note is in a list of search results internal links don't  normally work. I assume that people either don't use internal links or "select notebook and scroll" is their normal search method.

Fortunately there are workarounds.

• You can open the internal link in a new window. 
• You can open the parent note in a new window and then clear the search in the main window. The link then works. Hopefully the back button returns you tot he search if you need to go back (but the back button in EN has always (legacy and V10) been a bit of a mystery)

[bumblebeenero 18]

18 minutes ago, Mike P said:

If the note is in a list of search results internal links don't  normally work. I assume that people either don't use internal links or "select notebook and scroll" is their normal search method.

This is exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you.

[VincentC 338]

A number of folks here base their systems on tags.  @PinkElephant is one of them, and he is articulate about why and how he does.  

Others, like me, use notebooks and naming conventions to organize.  Some (not me), have very complex workflows that notebooks and naming conventions are able to support.  Personal choice, depending on taste and workflow.  Tomato / tomahto.  

It might be worthwhile for you to engage one of the many Evernote Experts here to help you figure out an organizing approach that works well for what you want to accomplish rather than spend hours working and reworking systems on your own. 

 

Vinnie

[Mike P 2,964]

46 minutes ago, VincentC said:

It might be worthwhile for you to engage one of the many Evernote Experts here to help you figure out an organizing approach that works well for what you want to accomplish rather than spend hours working and reworking systems on your own. 

 

I'm not sure who you are addressing. Are you saying that EN intentionally decided that internal note links should not work if the note happened to be in a list that is filtered or the results of a search?

[Kayla Gao 17]

new event button
This is really the worst design ever
Especially the exaggerated orange color really destroys the sense of concentration 👎🏻

[PinkElephant 8,772]

Switch your screen to b&w ?

These guys are proudly nudging you to the new calendar function - just keep smiling and lurk ahead.

[Paul A. 675]

8 hours ago, Mike P said:

I'm not sure who you are addressing. Are you saying that EN intentionally decided that internal note links should not work if the note happened to be in a list that is filtered or the results of a search?

I suspect they just use the product superficially and don't have anyone using tags and links, sadly. I've run this issue quite a bit and never got around to raising a ticket about it, to be fair. It got overshadowed by all the other bugs and issues on my "must-fix" list. 

[PinkElephant 8,772]

We had long threads about the layered „New“ button on the prior design - the one you needed to double click to directly create a new note.

Now they make it 3 distinct buttons. What follows „Oh, they waste space“ followed by „they only use the product superficially“.

Which shows: The only design decision to which everybody could agree to criticize would be to remove the „New“-button entirely.

To what I agree is an intolerable level of half baked, buggy or unusable „features“ in the last releases. I just wait until they break something important.

[Cristiano478 236]

1 hora atrás, PinkElephant disse:

We had long threads about the layered „New“ button on the prior design - the one you needed to double click to directly create a new note.

Now they make it 3 distinct buttons. What follows „Oh, they waste space“ followed by „they only use the product superficially“.

Which shows: The only design decision to which everybody could agree to criticize would be to remove the „New“-button entirely.

In other words, no matter what changes, there will always be a lot of people to complain. Eternal dissatisfaction guaranteed.

[Jon/t 1,652]

1 hour ago, Cristiano478 said:

In other words, no matter what changes, there will always be a lot of people to complain.

I find it quite amusing. Can't remember what is was but there was a usability issue that had been around for like a decade and loads of folk moaned about... I mean loads and they fixed it and like 4 very loud people moaned about the fix. Can't win lol.

[PinkElephant 8,772]

Personally I have not much of an issue with changes.

But release quality is really a bugger. THIS can be changed, and it is a management decision not to do so. Nobody questions that there may be bugs overlooked. But my impression is they don't even look at all.

[Rgstech 6]

Or... you know... they could make parts of the GUI customizable beyond light mode / dark mode.