New version don't allow concurretnt login (business and personal)....

[jorang 0]

I recently upgraded from legacy to the latest version of EN. 

I'm quite disapointed that Evernote closed the ability to stay logged in to both personal (not premium) and business (premium) account simultaniously. This was possible all the way as long as I was working using the legacy app (v6.XX) on windows.

I often copy/ move notes back and forth. Now I'm not able to do so anymore by a simple drag and drop. 

Am I missing something? Is this still possible with my setup?

[gazumped 11,699]

Hi.  Try this:  Switch between multiple accounts in Evernote – Evernote Help & Learning

- I was impressed that they now open in separate windows.  I haven't moved information between them though - please let me know if it still works!

[PinkElephant 8,174]

This has nothing to do with legacy.

This easy movement of data was only possible on the old Business accounts, the ones that didn't make a distinction between the Business and the Personal account. In fact this was one account, no real data separation. The new Business accounts are sealed off from the additional Personal account - this is intentional.

Nobody running a Business wants his professional information go wandering into personal data, to whatever use or abuse. The employee already knows he will be leaving - nice, let's take a copy of the customer list with last years sales with me, it's just one drag&drop between accounts. Exactly this is not working any more.

That's why the accounts are completely separated in the new Business accounts structure, and it has nothing to do with legacy.

[jorang 0]

5 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

This has nothing to do with legacy.

This easy movement of data was only possible on the old Business accounts, the ones that didn't make a distinction between the Business and the Personal account. In fact this was one account, no real data separation. The new Business accounts are sealed off from the additional Personal account - this is intentional.

Nobody running a Business wants his professional information go wandering into personal data, to whatever use or abuse. The employee already knows he will be leaving - nice, let's take a copy of the customer list with last years sales with me, it's just one drag&drop between accounts. Exactly this is not working any more.

That's why the accounts are completely separated in the new Business accounts structure, and it has nothing to do with legacy.

I have done this until last week when I updated the clients to v10xxx. So I'm sorry to say you are wrong her - even though your reflections seems logical 

[jorang 0]

14 hours ago, gazumped said:

Hi.  Try this:  Switch between multiple accounts in Evernote – Evernote Help & Learning

- I was impressed that they now open in separate windows.  I haven't moved information between them though - please let me know if it still works!

Thanks for pointing me in this direction. Seems it is still possible in a way. Can't wait to try this out 👍

[PinkElephant 8,174]

4 hours ago, jorang said:

I have done this until last week when I updated the clients to v10xxx. So I'm sorry to say you are wrong her - even though your reflections seems logical 

AFAIK you can run on the new version of the clients only the new Business accounts. But it was not necessary to go to the new clients to update - the new Business accounts were available since 2017. At least this is my understanding of this help document:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019020593

If you want to keep both accounts open on the same desktop computer, you could use the web client side by side to the installed client. But you still can’t simply move a full note from the Business to the Personal side, or the other way.

Here is some more about using both accounts:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000716428

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

On 2/6/2023 at 11:41 AM, jorang said:

I'm quite disapointed that Evernote closed the ability to stay logged in to both personal (not premium) and business (premium) account simultaniously. This was possible all the way as long as I was working using the legacy app (v6.XX) on windows.

just to clarify as this is not just a personal/premium account issue:

With Evernote v6.25 it was possible to have two Evernote main windows open at the same time, showing the notes of TWO different Evernote Premium Accounts, being able to drag and drop notes with the mouse.

I've used it like this every day and often moved notes between accounts as you've described.

It appears with v10 this functionality has been entirely removed which is quite unfortunate because it basically kills my workflow and makes me being stuck with Evernote legacy for now.

The majority of Evernote users don't ever use two premium accounts and were thus probably never aware of this "two main windows/two accounts" ability in the first place as it's kinda hidden (you first have to enable the account switching button in the toolbar, I only found that out by accident)

Unfortunately judging by the answers given in this thread the other users here don't seem to understand what we're talking about in the first place, bummer.

[PinkElephant 8,174]

There is an account switcher - which is not the same.

What you can do is to have the desktop client open with one account, and the web client (which is rather complete) with a second account. This will even work on an iPad with the mobile client.

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

1 minute ago, PinkElephant said:

and the web client (which is rather complete) with a second account

I've four 4K monitors with dozens of notes open from both accounts as individual windows, how am I supposed to work if I cannot open Individual notes anymore because one of my accounts is now trapped in a webbrowser

sorry but this is not a viable solution (or you just made a joke?)

Evernote fired some people lately maybe they should fire whoever is responsible for this mess

[PinkElephant 8,174]

You seem to be a bit over the edge with your setup.

Actually I would expect there is some budget left with all that hardware to get a second PC, and run a second full client - if this is what you need for your productivity. I doubt that even 1% of users will have the need to mimic your heroic handling of open notes and screen real estate. I doubt anybody will code stuff that only a fraction of users will ever need.

If you want to go with desktop and web client, I would do the writing on the web client, and the research on the desktop client, with multiple windows. Or you use the web clients ability to run several tabs, each one with another view.

Will take some experimenting until you find the sweet spot in that setup.

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

4 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Actually I would expect there is some budget left with all that hardware to get a second PC

My workflow is based on the ability having both premium accounts open at the same computer so I can quickly copy and paste information or share entire notes via drag and drop, how's that supposed to work if each account is running on a seperate PC?

I doesn't matter if it's a 1% use case, it all worked perfectly with Evernote v6 and still works, I just don't understand why they killed it off with v10...

[PinkElephant 8,174]

Oh, yes, you are right, I always forget not all operating systems are modern.

Between 2 Macs running side by side, I can simply drag & drop any file or clipboard content seamlessly with the same mouse and keyboard between the 2 computers monitors. You get used to something like this pretty fast, you know.

v10 is sort of a browser, running an app as front end. Basically what is provided by the framework will run. What the framework doesn't have, will not work, or needs to be explicitly coded. Since the new app is 100% new code, they will focus on functions they assume be at the benefit of larger user groups.

2 Premium accounts is no setup promoted by EN in any way. You can decide to work like this, but it is out of scope. That it worked with legacy and doesn't work with v10 is accidental - this workflow is nowhere found in the EN help documents, or the tutorials they officially run. At the contrary, in the case where 2 accounts are involved (EN Teams), they make it very clear the 2 accounts are held completely separate.

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

Imagine accessing the emails of your company while also being able to view your private emails, all on the same computer.

Yet suddently someone tells you that's no possible anymore, if you want to see both at the same time you need to open your private emails either in the webbrowser or on a seperate computer, haha!

[AlbertR 542]

4 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

2 Premium accounts is no setup promoted by EN in any way.

But having Teams and a private account is a normal use case. And because Teams accounts are much more expensive it is not a minor user group that should be ignored. 

[PinkElephant 8,174]

As a background, has nothing to do with the discussion here about legacy vs. v10: The former business account (1 account with 2 sections, one with business, one with private notes) made this transfer quit simple.

Starting 2017 these were converted into the new Business (now Teams) accounts. One account is the shared business account, under control of an Admin. Each user gets a complete separate Premium / Personal account.

For compliance reasons EN made it DIFFICULT to move data between the two spheres. As the owner of the business data you don’t want an easy way how employees can move company data into their private accounts.

Sorry, this is no argument for an easy „drag & drop“ style operation.

[AlbertR 542]

OK, ok - might be right for bigger business. But there are thousands of small companies with no strict separation of the spheres...

And I do not use parallel EN accounts because of Drag&Drop possibilites. It's simply the time to switch the accounts that makes me crazy: I have two desktops (Ctrl-Wnd-Left and -Right) to switch between context-1 and context-2. In Context-1 I run EN-1 with one account and in Context-2 I see EN-2.

In later times, both EN-accounts run with Legacy - and all was fine. ✔
Now I've switched EN-2 to EN10 (in hope to get as successful as with Legacy 😉) - hard work 😤
If EN10 should be used in both contexts - impossible 😞

[gazumped 11,699]

Are we talking about this sort of concurrent?

 

[jorang 0]

I wonder if its possible to have two different accounts open at the same time/ same desktop with OneNote? Evernote legacy hadled this just fine - with v10 unfortunately this it's not possible anymore...

[AlbertR 542]

3 hours ago, gazumped said:

Are we talking about this sort of concurrent?

Yes - two EN windows of different accounts open at one time. Possible with Legacy - impossible with EN10 (allows only to switch by closing the one and re-opening with the other account)

What's your interpretation?

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

If you cannot grasp it lucky you because you're obviously not affected but whoever is probably knows what I'm talking about, I don't know what else to say 🤷‍♂️

[gazumped 11,699]

2 hours ago, AlbertR said:

Yes - two EN windows of different accounts open at one time. Possible with Legacy - impossible with EN10 (allows only to switch by closing the one and re-opening with the other account)

What's your interpretation?

I haven't ever had the need to show two separate accounts at the same time,  but if I wanted to share information between the two I could easily use copy/ paste, a web view, email, sharing - any number of ways to quickly grab information from one account and paste it into another.  AFAICS two windows side by side is a luxury that's easily worked around,  but if you have a sound use case for it then by all means feed it back to Evernote or open a feature request in the Forums.  Various things got dropped by the 'old' Evernote management,  but now that we have the new guys in place - who knows where they'll take it?

[PinkElephant 8,174]

What does work is to have the web client open with a different account, side by side with v10 desktop.

Options to move content between the two accounts are to select, and then copy & paste (drag & drop resulted in errors on my Mac) content, or to drag & drop an entire note from one account to the other.

The later will not create a duplicate of the note in the second account. It will create a link, that will open the note in the first account as a share.

I think this should do, even in more demanding use cases. It is intentional that content can't be moved very easy between accounts - this is no accident.

[AlbertR 542]

16 hours ago, gazumped said:

I haven't ever had the need to show two separate accounts at the same time,  but if I wanted to share information between the two I could easily <do some things...>

and 

13 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

It is intentional that content can't be moved very easy between accounts - this is no accident.

My use case is not moving content between the accounts. I would like to have both accounts open to spare time to switch. I've configured my desktops as two desktops (Windows-TAB ...) and can switch between my office and privat enviroments by CTRL-Windows-Left and -Right (done in 0.001 secs).

• Possible with Legacy
• Possible with Web clients (but who wants to use this if native apps are available?)
• Impossible with EN10 app (means: I have to switch accouts explicitely which takes >= 8 secs each time to close current windows and re-open window(s) of the other account...)

I'll continue with Legacy until this (and some other topics) will be solved in EN10. As a compromise I try to work with Legacy in one environment and use EN10 app in the other. This can't be the final solution - but it helps to understand differences between Legacy(advantages) and EN10(downsides) because I can see (and feel) it with every switch 😉

 

[jorang 0]

As TS I have to say that I frequently used two simultanious entities open to drag and drop between business and private. I want to separate the two to keep them apart - not to steal info from my business to bring out of the business. At work I have a connected scanner which scans to the business account, and at home I'm scanning to my private. Moving notes between the accounts was a perfect and timesaving process to get the notes where they belong.

EN would never be a waterproof business arcive system. Not at least until they can deliver a backup solution with rollback that could be scheduled. Having to du manual backups is clearly missing in their business dev plans

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

18 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

to have the web client open

Assuming the web client as a companion for the native windows client is just absurd, it's not only horribly slooow but also shows inconsistent behavior

Here are some examples:

• Pasting a screenshot in the Windows client takes <1 sec., pasting the same screenshot in the web client takes 15-20 seconds! (because the picture needs to be uploaded first in the background, I've a 100mbit connection btw)
• Copying a note which contains text, a table and a picture from the web client into an existing note on the windows client gives me either
  • 1) an icon but no picture at all (Evernote v6)
  • 2) an attachment of the picture which produces an error message when trying to access it (Evernote v10)
    • bottom line: It just doesn't work! (and you were merely assuming things in your previous posts)
• Working with web client and windows client at the same time triggers duplicates!
• Opening multiple notes with the web client is incredibly cumbersome, the only way I found is to duplicate the evernote tab and then navigate to the note, on the windows client I just double click on the note!
  • sometimes I have to open multiple notes all having the same tag, how's that supposed to work with the web client in a reasonable amount of time?

The last two points alone makes the web client totally unusable, the webclient may work for people whose main use case for Evernote is writing shopping lists but not for me

I love Evernote and we had a great time but v10 is a dead end, the day evernote is shutting v6.25 I'll shed some tears, pack my stuff and have to move somewhere else, my company as well (after 10 years!)

[gazumped 11,699]

10 minutes ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

but v10 is a dead end, the day evernote is shutting v6.25 I'll shed some tears, pack my stuff and have to move somewhere else

The chances of the new owners dumping v10 (IMHO) are from 0 to -10;  they bought into v10,  and given their cost-saving attitude on staff,  I'd be a little worried that older and unsupported products will be following the same route rather sooner than they might otherwise have done - unless the new guys have the same frustrations as you.

On the basis that you need v10 to improve so you can use it,  I'd suggest you raise all of this with Support - no doubt the new owners will be reading through the Forums looking for issues and ideas,  but a direct comment is faster.  You'll quickly find out what (if anything) they intend to do about this,  and might give them some good ideas that will be implemented before someone sunsets 6.25.

Without your detailed feedback Evernote might not even realise that they have the pain points you're concerned with,  and you'll never be able to return to an 'improved' v10.

[AlbertR 542]

2 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Without your detailed feedback Evernote might not even realise that they have the pain points you're concerned with,  and you'll never be able to return to an 'improved' v10.

I think EN should (and does!) read the discussions here.
If every angry user has to be handled by support, they will stop doing their job (solving problems).
Discussion with users around necessities and wishes should be handled by product management (or however you will name it...).
From EN's point of view they can save much time (and money) if the discussion are run within users itself.

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

17 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Without your detailed feedback Evernote might not even realise that they have the pain points you're concerned with

I just scratch my head and seriously wonder if the Evernote staff is using Evernote v10 themselves because I feel like pointing out the obvious here.

 

17 minutes ago, gazumped said:

On the basis that you need v10 to improve so you can use it

Two years ago I quickly tested v10 and decided it's not for me, now it's 2 years later and I'm becoming worried as essentional functionality is still missing and I've got the impression due to the software plattform the Evernote team build upon it's technically impossible that v10 will ever become as powerful as v6 (similar to UWP Apps vs Win32 Apps)

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

give them some good ideas that will be implemented before someone sunsets 6.25.

When v10 was released many people have done exactly that, you can read it up in this very forums

However 2 years have passed now and nothing really has changed, v10 still feels like a bumped up representation of the evernote website rather than a fully fledged Win32 client and I don't see how that is gonna change anytime soon if they didn't fix it in 2 years time

That only leads to two possible conclusions:

1) There are simply no plans to add features that were present in v6, if they didn't do it in 2 years why should they suddenly do it now?

2) it's technically impossible as v10 is meant to be a windowed web app rather than a fully fledged Win32 app (Facebook tried something similar with their Android app a few years ago but quickly reversed course)

I just want to remind Evernote that their main source of income are subscription plans paid for by power users like me, redesigning the product so that it better fits the average Joe writing his shipping list with a free plan isn't a sustainable strategy (and there are already better apps for this)

[bmcl26 499]

I have to agree to disagree; like most, I was not a fan of V10 when it was introduced; however, that was more a reaction to change as I was nudged out of my comfort zone with things moving to different parts of the screen.  I have been a paid user since 2011, and the truth is known, comparing my use before V10, I was only really dabbling my toes in the water.   When first Home was introduced, I increased my use considerably, and with each new feature Calander, Widgets and Tasks, my use for EN expanded exponentially.  It was only a short time before legacy was consigned to the past.

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

10 minutes ago, bmcl26 said:

When first Home was introduced, I increased my use considerably, and with each new feature Calander, Widgets and Tasks, my use for EN expanded exponentially.

No offense but I'm talking about a rare, yet for some power users very essential feature now missing in Evernote v10 and you're talking about the new home screen - how are these two things related?

Imagine you have an old car and the autoshop builds in an air condition, yet at the same time they remove the trunk and limit your speed to 40mph by putting in the engine of a lawnmover. Not a big deal if you use your car only once a week to got to church and grocery shopping but that's how it feels like working with v10, a fancy home screen won't change any of that.

 

[gazumped 11,699]

2 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

as essentional functionality is still missing

53 minutes ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

v10 still feels like a bumped up representation of the evernote website

With all respect - what you see as 'essential' may not be the same thing as many others;  and I would not use the website legacy version except to look something up.  These days the website version is almost as capable as the installed app.  And...

55 minutes ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

2 years have passed now and nothing really has changed

We're clearly using different apps,  because when it first launched I totally agree the app was unusable.  These days I rarely use Legacy on my W11 desktop,  although it is still my daily driver on my W10 laptop,  because v10 causes freezes and crashes.  IMHO v10.5X is immeasurably better than 10.1 and every 2 weeks (or so) there are further upgrades and changes. 

Things are getting better,  but Evernote has thousands,  if not millions of users calling for their own special 'essential' upgrades...  If you want yours to be closer to the top of the list,  waiting for a rep to read this thread amongst hundreds of others is not necessarily a good strategy...

[Boot17 1,467]

FWIW - Just wanted to state up front that I think it'd be great if we could have two different Evernote accounts open at the same time on Desktop like as was before. Even opening two Evernote main windows of the same account would be great too.

2 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

1) There are simply no plans to add features that were present in v6, if they didn't do it in 2 years why should they suddenly do it now?

I think that is true. I think some features just plain aren't coming back for a variety of reasons.

2 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

2) it's technically impossible as v10 is meant to be a windowed web app rather than a fully fledged Win32 app (Facebook tried something similar with their Android app a few years ago but quickly reversed course)

I don't think it's technically impossible, but certainly possible for many some things to be more technically difficult and the ROI is just not there for it.

2 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

I just want to remind Evernote that their main source of income are subscription plans paid for by power users like me

Hrm... I don't see you how you could possibly know that.

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

32 minutes ago, gazumped said:

because v10 causes freezes and crashes

if that's the case than nothing really has changed has it?

Two years ago I tested it and quickly considered v10 unuseable and it still is with essential features missing, it's basically a slow, windowed browser app that is based on technology unable to ever match the old legacy app

 

33 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Evernote has thousands,  if not millions of users calling for their own special 'essential' upgrades

I'm not calling for upgrades, rather for retaining functionality that I consider essential and that has been present for years.

You may consider me a minority but I may very well respresent a silent majority of paying subscribers:

Only a fraction of the ~250million user base are actually subcribers, last year they boasted with "approximately $100 million in recurring revenue" in an offical press release, that would roughly equate to < 2mio subscribers (less than 1% of the user base), might be a bit more but very likely well below 10%

So for once and for all I wanna remember Evernote who's paying their bills here, they basically used our subscriptions fees to develop a "lifestyle app" which may further entice non-paying users while alienating professional users which are the ones generating revenue for Evernote in the first place

[gazumped 11,699]

1 hour ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

if that's the case than nothing really has changed has it?

My point was that my 6-year old W10 laptop doesn't have the processor speed or the memory to run v10.  It runs very well on my new W11 desktop thanks...

1 hour ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

I may very well respresent a silent majority of paying subscribers:

I don't think that many of us want two different accounts open at the same time - but hey I'm just another paying subscriber.

1 hour ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

they basically used our subscriptions fees to develop a "lifestyle app"

...as well as (more or less) unlimited cloud storage,  24/7/365 access to notes on any device in any OS,  the features of the current apps...

 

And again,  I'm not saying you can't have this feature,  I was just suggesting that direct feedback is quicker and more effective than repeatedly demanding that the company do what you want because you're one of 2M(?) people who help pay the bills.

[jorang 0]

I have been using EN user for approx 10 years and have established some habits based on the functionality I experienced from my "early days".

First it was possible to have multiple accounts in the same window. Easily choosen from the left panel in the win app. Drag and drop within the same app window. 

Than for a few years ago they separated the accounts, but made it possible to have two accounts in different windows "up" at the same time. Pushing real estate of the screen - espesially when using a laptop with just one screen available.  But still functional for my use.

When v10 appeared I tried it for some days - found it hopeless and switched back to legacy (v6.xx).

Now I'm seriously wondering what to do. Clearly this has to implicate some change on my side. Most probable I'm converting my business notes (premium) to OneNote 365 since we already have the Office 365 package onboard. For private notes (free - but still private business related stuff) I would probably stay with EN.

EN simply doesn't support my working process anymore....🤔

[AlbertR 542]

Just to try to finalize the discussion:

• There are (good) paying users with credible use cases that want to get back a feature
• It's a small thing to implement it (my opinion as a developer) - compared with other epics that change underlying data structures and UI at all.

We as your stakeholder believe that business value of the story is high enouph to rate it to the next dev sprints...

 

So my questions to EN-Staff (i.e. @Scott T.)

• What's wrong?
• When do we get it back? 

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,977]

11 hours ago, jorang said:

When v10 appeared I tried it for some days - found it hopeless and switched back to legacy (v6.xx).

Now I'm seriously wondering what to do.

What to do: try v. 10 again and see if it's still exactly the same as it was when it first appeared.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,977]

22 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

I'm talking about a rare, yet for some power users very essential feature now missing in Evernote v10

 

23 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

I just want to remind Evernote that their main source of income are subscription plans paid for by power users like me, redesigning the product so that it better fits the average Joe writing his shipping list with a free plan isn't a sustainable strategy (and there are already better apps for this)

With as much respect as I can muster, which is it: Do you represent an edge case, or Evernote's main source of income? Or is their main source of income the few users who need to do this rare thing? It really can't be both. I pay for a Professional subscription to Evernote, so I contribute to their income too. I do not use if for shopping lists but for research and for shaping and crafting ideas (and some personal purposes as well). I consider myself a power user within the mainstream of Evernote's purposes. Yet I have no need to have two accounts, let alone have two accounts open at the same time. If Evernote decided to pivot and throw all its resources into making edge-case users happy, I would  find that very annoying.

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

1 hour ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Do you represent an edge case, or Evernote's main source of income?

It only sounds like a contradiction because you've taken both my comments out of context, the overall situation is rather complex

Some people may argue the following:

• An issue that only affects 1% of the evernote userbase isn't worth considering for further development
• It's better to put ressources behind features that the majority of evernote users appreciate, like the new home screen

While that may sound reasonable at first there's something else to consider:

• Being a Premium suscriber is a very rare use case by itself (<10%, probably 2-3%), however premium subscribers are creating revenue for the company which helps funding app development in the first place

With the transition to v10 the Evernote developers have gotten themselves in quite a desperate situation because they now have to please both users groups at the same time to ensure long term success of their product:

• 1) Features like the new home screen were badly needed to make Evernote "more modern" and attract new users with different use cases that would otherwise just use pre-installed alternatives like apple notes or google notes
• 2) At the same time, integrating pre-existing features from v6 is equally important before too many professional users cancel their subscriptions and go somewhere else

Remember, most suscribers started out as free users, so implementing features that help grow the overall/free userbase should on the long run grow the number of paying premium subcribers as well, however this strategy only works if you don't alienate a huge chunk of the existing premium users at the same time

For the last two years, Evernote has been working hard on growing their overall userbase, while putting their premium subscribers on life support with "Evernote legacy".
I could actually life with the situation as it is but my fears of a "broken" legacy version without prior notice are growing every day.

As a premium subscriber I wonder when I'll finally also receive some love from the evernote developers, because right now I feel ignored, marginalized and ultimately abandoned.

[Boot17 1,467]

4 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

It only sounds like a contradiction because you've taken both my comments out of context, the overall situation is rather complex

Some people may argue the following:

• An issue that only affects 1% of the evernote userbase isn't worth considering for further development
• It's better to put ressources behind features that the majority of evernote users appreciate, like the new home screen

While that may sound reasonable at first there's something else to consider:

• Being a Premium suscriber is a very rare use case by itself (<10%, probably 2-3%), however premium subscribers are creating revenue for the company which helps funding app development in the first place

With the transition to v10 the Evernote developers have gotten themselves in quite a desperate situation because they now have to please both users groups at the same time to ensure long term success of their product:

• 1) Features like the new home screen were badly needed to make Evernote "more modern" and attract new users with different use cases that would otherwise just use pre-installed alternatives like apple notes or google notes
• 2) At the same time, integrating pre-existing features from v6 is equally important before too many professional users cancel their subscriptions and go somewhere else

Remember, most suscribers started out as free users, so implementing features that help grow the overall/free userbase should on the long run grow the number of paying premium subcribers as well, however this strategy only works if you don't alienate a huge chunk of the existing premium users at the same time

For the last two years, Evernote has been working hard on growing their overall userbase, while putting their premium subscribers on life support with "Evernote legacy".
I could actually life with the situation as it is but my fears of a "broken" legacy version without prior notice are growing every day.

As a premium subscriber I wonder when I'll finally also receive some love from the evernote developers, because right now I feel ignored, marginalized and ultimately abandoned.

In an earlier comment you allege that, "their main source of income are subscription plans paid for by power users like me". And by "like me", I assume you meant people still only using the legacy versions as this latest comment also continues along that bent. So you know -- without doubt -- that most of the paying subscribers are still on legacy and haven't moved to v10 yet.

Interesting. I wonder if that is really the case.

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

13 minutes ago, Boot17 said:

I assume you mean people still only using the legacy versions

Sorry but that's your very own interpretation and totally wrong, I don't assume any of that. AFAIK there's no data how many subscribers are still using legacy, so can't possibly know, however it must be rather significant (solid double digits), otherwise Evernote wouldn't bother providing a dedicated "legacy version" download?

It would further be interesting how many former subscribers are neither on v6 nor v10 because they completely left for a different product, I saw several competitors gaining lots of traction recently, I've tried some myself but found nothing so far that matches Evernote v6 in simplicity and efficiency, bummer. Not sure if calling competing products by name is allowed here...

[jorang 0]

Just a comment from the sideline - I have been quite satisfied with the Legacy version but after discovering this (for me) problem I have started searching for alternatives. Would not have happened if this feature was not broken from v6 til v10

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,977]

On 2/23/2023 at 2:43 PM, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

No offense but I'm talking about a rare, yet for some power users very essential feature now missing in Evernote v10 and you're talking about the new home screen - how are these two things related?

Imagine you have an old car and the autoshop builds in an air condition, yet at the same time they remove the trunk and limit your speed to 40mph by putting in the engine of a lawnmover. Not a big deal if you use your car only once a week to got to church and grocery shopping but that's how it feels like working with v10, a fancy home screen won't change any of that.

 

 

On 2/23/2023 at 1:43 PM, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

When v10 was released many people have done exactly that, you can read it up in this very forums

However 2 years have passed now and nothing really has changed, v10 still feels like a bumped up representation of the evernote website rather than a fully fledged Win32 client and I don't see how that is gonna change anytime soon if they didn't fix it in 2 years time

That only leads to two possible conclusions:

1) There are simply no plans to add features that were present in v6, if they didn't do it in 2 years why should they suddenly do it now?

2) it's technically impossible as v10 is meant to be a windowed web app rather than a fully fledged Win32 app (Facebook tried something similar with their Android app a few years ago but quickly reversed course)

I just want to remind Evernote that their main source of income are subscription plans paid for by power users like me, redesigning the product so that it better fits the average Joe writing his shipping list with a free plan isn't a sustainable strategy (and there are already better apps for this)

OK, here are both statements in full context. I repeat, which is it: the issue is a rare one found among some power users, or it affects power users who are the main source of Evernote's income? It can't be both, unless you really are contending that the limited number of people with two accounts who need to view both at once and drag notes between them are the mains source of Evernote's income.

And please stop insulting everyone who doesn't use Evernote the way you do as being just people making  shopping lists.

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

According to a press release from 2022, Evernote has a userbase of 250 million while generating a revenue of roughly 100 million. I can't possibly know how much of their revenue is actually coming from premium subscribers and was merely assuming that their main income derives from their main product. Either way, lets say 95% can enjoy an ad free app because 5% are paying for it, yet the developers have grossly ignored many user requests and basically thrown power users under the bus with v10

So technically, the issue discussed here is very likely a rare issue indeed considering 250 million users but it might still be relevant if a significant percentage of their paying customer base is affected. Only Evernote knows how many but I don't think they would've provided a feature in Evernote v6 in the first place and supported it for years if barely anybody uses it ?

As usual with topics that only affect a small minority, you'll always have people who just come by and inadvertently derail any objective discussion by proudly proclaiming "an issue I'm not personally affected by doesn't exist", I then quietly clench my fist while trying not to insult anyone.

[AngryEvernotePremiumUser 42]

5 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

the limited number of people with two accounts

Let me clarify once again: This thread is not about evernote users that may have two evernote accounts but rather users who need the ability to view another evernote account in parallel to their own.

For example, I have my private evernote account but want to view the evernote account of my company at the same time, an account other employees have access too as well.

I think this is a very easy to understand use case, yet you constantly ridicule it by wrongfully asserting I was talking about Evernote users who have two Evernote premium accounts which I don't.

[Paul A. 627]

4 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

According to a press release from 2022, Evernote has a userbase of 250 million while generating a revenue of roughly 100 million.

It's an interesting thought experiment. As a private company, EN doesn't have to be very transparent about users. My guess is 250m is the number of users who have ever had an account in the last decade+, and the number of active users (monthly active) is much, much, smaller, though impossible to accurately estimate.

As for paying customers, this is much easier to estimate. Evernote has been rationalizing its pricing plans worldwide over the past couple of years. Low income countries can get Evernote for $20-$30, and high income countries pay $70 - $100, with those numbers reduced somewhat by student discounts, temporary 1-year promotions, and the remaining legacy plan subscribers (though those are renewing at significantly higher rates).

By guestimating average revenue, Evernote probably has somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 million paying subscribers, or less than 1% of the supposed 250 million figure. This would be an atrocious conversion rate by freemium product standards, especially considering that free users with unlimited storage undoubtedly cost them quite a bit of money.

However, if the actual number of Monthly Active Users (MAUs) is only 80 million or so, then 2 million paying subscribers works out to about a 2.5% conversion rate, which is more respectable (though still not fantastic).

All this to say I expect additional restrictions / curtailments to Free accounts over the next year to help push frequent Free users to upgrade to Premium.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,977]

20 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

On 2/25/2023 at 4:45 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

the limited number of people with two accounts

Let me clarify once again: This thread is not about evernote users that may have two evernote accounts but rather users who need the ability to view another evernote account in parallel to their own.

For example, I have my private evernote account but want to view the evernote account of my company at the same time, an account other employees have access too as well.

I think this is a very easy to understand use case, yet you constantly ridicule it by wrongfully asserting I was talking about Evernote users who have two Evernote premium accounts which I don't.

Ah HA! Now you are quoting me out of context, and misquoting me as well. I said (and even this is not the full context):

On 2/25/2023 at 4:45 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

the limited number of people with two accounts who need to view both at once and drag notes between them

That is exactly what you're talking about, is it not? And I have never said a word about "premium" accounts.

20 hours ago, AngryEvernotePremiumUser said:

Either way, lets say 95% can enjoy an ad free app because 5% are paying for it, yet the developers have grossly ignored many user requests and basically thrown power users under the bus with v10

Agree on the math, not on the bus toss. I use an Evernote Professional account heavily, though obviously in a way very different from you, since I don't need to work with two accounts. Since Evernote kind of invites different users with different needs to devise different but equally intense ways of using it, "power user" perhaps becomes a little hard to define. I feel that I get good value from my subscription fee, and while I can't say I totally don't mind subsidizing the free users, I do feel that EN does now offer quite a bit more to paying users than to free ones. (The free users come into the forums all the time and gripe about how little they get for nothing.)