EN-Teams account to collect/view/comment issues (bugs and wishes)?

[AlbertR 532]

Along with working here in the groups, reading much Bla-Bla and struggling with links to already know issues (where and how can I find them?, ...), I suggest the following:
 

• EN itself should drive a Teams account to extend our forum groups
• We users and EN itself should collect issues that come up and|or are already listed in groups like Evernote for Windows Issues (Versions 10.0 and above) and others

 

This might have many advantages:

• EN-Teams members (users) can use all features of EN to find, comment and manage issues
  • This will easy (and later replace?) work with many forum groups
• EN is able to comment
  • ... to annouce things like "in work", "fixed in", "on hold because...", "never", ...
• EN itself proves that its own product is capable of being used in this way
  • ... and how easy this is...

 

Prerequisites

• EN has to settle up a "paid" EN-Teams account
  • should not be a problem😉
  • EN staff people will be Administrators of the account (more than on possible)

 

How could daily work be set up?

• Administrators set up Spaces (collections of notebooks to be managed globally)
• Administrators create Notebooks within Spaces
• Administrators invite users to become team members
  • Write-enabled users ("Writers") can add notes (issues), comments (note content) and tags
    • They are content-creators
  • Read-only users ("Readers") may do exactly this...
    • They are content-consumers

 

Who will get Writer?

• In a first step all Level 3..5 and Expert forum users
  • ... if they are willing to help because it will take some time to collect already known issues 😉

 

Who will get Reader?

• Forum users with at least Level 2
  • All other newbees can be handled like ever by forum users

 

What should be written?

• Every small incident should become a new note with short but meaningful title 
• If would be fine to assign a unique incident number (in front of the title)
• Problem/wish description
• Solution (if available later)
• Some (well defined) tags shall help to categorize the issues

 

Do I see any difficuties?

• Yes - of course ... 🤔
• Tags cannot be ordered hierarchicalle in Teams accounts.
  • This is not a big problem if tags are well defined and will be used according to clear rules because you can limit your work to not-so-many tags...
  • Might be one of the first Issues in such a system 😉
• It cannot be disallowed to add new tags
  • In such a big Teams user community it would be helpful limit tag usage to avoid wild grouth.
  • ... the next Issue in such a system
• Discussions are not easy to handle
  • Whereas a forum adds every new post to the end of a thread, a note can be edited elsewhere...
  • Can be an advantage if all Writes use the same rules to manage tag content (by using a Template?)
• Administration of users is not easy for huge groups
  • You cannot give "all forum user" access to the account because every each user has to be added and invited.
  • But this might be automated on server site (EN)
    • ... something like the procedure to enter closed Facebook groups: forum user clicks a button to "Request access to issue tracker", Administrator gets involved an has to click "OK, Reader", "OK, Write" or ignore it.
• EN10 should be enabled to work with two account in parallel
  • OK - it's wish of mine since months - but might be worked around if by using the WEB app only to access the issue tracker 😁

 

I'd like to get some comments on this idea - not only from users. It would a nice to get an offical statement from @Federico Simionato. THX

[gazumped 11,667]

I think it's a horrible idea.  Heaven knows how many members of the Forums there are - since past staff members pop up from time to time there are at least thousands of members,  and a new Teams account would have to have access for them all (unless someone's going to go through all the registrations and check them against usage...)

That then gives access to a Teams account which could possible be abused (remember free accounts...) and probably needs development to disconnect the related personal account that normally goes with  membership.

I do totally agree with you that the Forums should be far easier to negotiate,  and that it would be nice if new enquiries could be added to the correct thread.  But.  Have you met our users?  A significant percentage co-incidentally tend to begin their posts in the Teams forum,  regardless of what actual account type they have.  And most need to be asked for their OS and Evernote versions, plus more details of their particular issue - which is often the 10th such post we've had on the topic that week.

I did start putting together a 'standard fixes' list that was suddenly in need of a total rewrite when the Legacy / Price / Feature changes went through.  What we have is not great,  but my strategy is to sign up to all the categories so I get an email for each new post (they go to a separate folder in my email client so I can get some work done occasionally).  I'll use that to find the post,  and either follow it, respond to it or delete the mail if someone's already responded to an old issue.

As each fix is confirmed,  I add that detail to a database (guess where) so I can find it again quickly if there's another post on the same theme.

It's a process I've honed over the years (old CS tech here,  remember...) so it works well for me - and for most other posters with tech issues.

Unfortunately as I've whinged elsewhere,  the converts from Legacy and Price rises are going to keep us plenty busy for the near future!  Maybe things will be quieter for Christmas '24.

PS - A certain COO(?) is going to stop reading his links soon I would imagine.

Federico must feel like the captain of a cruise ship who walks out on deck and gets greeted by...

• "Did you know the hot water doesn't work in my stateroom?"
• "Why was the pool closed last night?"
• "The motor is very noisy - I can't sleep"
• "Can we have a boat drill tomorrow?  Today's not very convenient..."
• "I want red curtains in my cabin"
• "Why is the weather so bad?!"

- There are over a thousand different issues up in the air at the moment,  and each user wants theirs dealt with first,  and preferably tomorrow.  The proper route is through Support (and yes I know...) - the captain should have a lot more important things to make decisions on!  

 

[AlbertR 532]

19 hours ago, gazumped said:

Heaven knows how many members of the Forums there are...

Hmm, if EN is able to count our doings even in finer measures (L usage, Tag usage, ...), it shouldn't be a problem to give us stats...

19 hours ago, gazumped said:

That then gives access to a Teams account which could possible be abused

OK, after some thoughts about, what's about some changes in my suggestion?

Who will get Writer?
In a first step all Level 3..5 and Expert forum users
... if they are willing to help because it will take some time to collect already known issues 😉

Anyone who want's to be part of the Writer team sends a "Give me access" message that has to be granted by Admins. I propose that Level 3..5 and Experts have proven enouph not to abuse goals of such a indicent tracker. I think it will be no more than one or two dozens of us who would help.

Who will get Reader?
Forum users with at least Level 2
All other newbees can be handled like ever by forum users

Readers cannot abuse anything. But it was a bad idea, to enable Readers by a similar process. It might be much easier to offer one free account. So the Admins have to handle only n(Writers)+1 accounts.

To close the door of changing anything on the Reader account I've to add a topic to

Prerequisites

• EN has to disable access to the Account page for the Reader account to disable changes (i.e. of the password 😉)

On 2/26/2024 at 6:15 PM, gazumped said:

I do totally agree with you that the Forums should be far easier to negotiate,  and that it would be nice if new enquiries could be added to the correct thread. 

AFAIK the Forums are driven by an external service. Is it even impossible for you (as a moderator) to move threads around the forum groups?

To be used as an issue tracker, this forum has at least one problem: It shows no thread-ID (maybe in front of the thread subject). It would be much easier to navigate through and maintain overview over a forum group if users can see this ID and us it to reference threads. Example:

• This thread here should be named "§150537 EN-Teams account to collect/view/comment issues (bugs and wishes)?"
• "§150537" should be inserted automatically before the title in every display
• If a user types "§" during inserting text anywhere, the editor should work like currently if you type "@": with every following character, possible continuations are displayed and to ease the input of the complete ID.
• If an ID is input, the complete ID and titel should be displayed as a link to the thread like §150537 EN-Teams account to collect/view/comment issues (bugs and wishes)?

On 2/26/2024 at 6:15 PM, gazumped said:

But.  Have you met our users?  A significant percentage co-incidentally tend to begin their posts in the Teams forum, ...

This is exactly my problem with the forum to be used as an issue tracker: There are too many users who do not care for overview.

If a Teams account based issue tracker is maintained by people like your and some others who know what's to do, this cannot go out of control (Remember: only some Writers and many consumers)

On 2/26/2024 at 6:15 PM, gazumped said:

I did start putting together a 'standard fixes' list

Great - I think many of us have (for several needs) such standard answers. But it's your personal work and your personal list. Wouldn't be fine to have this list available for  and maintained also by others? Such a list might be available as a notebook "FAQ" in our issue tracker containing i.e. notes like "§17 Open note in new window"

On 2/26/2024 at 6:15 PM, gazumped said:

As each fix is confirmed,  I add that detail to a database (guess where)

Hey - Tags are already invented 😉

On 2/26/2024 at 6:15 PM, gazumped said:

PS - A certain COO(?) is going to stop reading his links soon I would imagine.

Yep - would do it the same way. But would honor any idea to help me. So I keep hoping for an answer sooner or later...

On 2/26/2024 at 6:15 PM, gazumped said:

There are over a thousand different issues up in the air at the moment,  and each user wants theirs dealt with first,  and preferably tomorrow.  The proper route is through Support (and yes I know...) - the captain should have a lot more important things to make decisions on! 

OK, the idea of a user-driven issue tracker might be born because of the non-existing official Support this time. If the newly formed Support team will offer a similar system there is really no need for a user-driven support.

[Jon/t 1,293]

Something similar to this exisits in the expert forums and to be honest thats sort of one of the things the expert folk do a lot of, post bugs and wishes. I think I've posted 3 or 4 buggy things this morning.

I think(?) that bugs (and I mean bugs not missing things from legacy) are looked at by how many folk they affect so something very niche may take a while to get fixed but something like the table padding issue got fixed within a couple of weeks.

Pretty much everything anyone mentions here in the forums is known about but again the question is how many folk does it affect.

I remember calls from 2020 when V10 came out and some of the stuff was missing because hardly anyone used it, presentation mode for example. I remember a podcast Ian Small was on ages ago said only 5% of folk used tags... tags not going anywhere!

From what I see some things may get added back in. Other things may get a different solution to the problem. Other stuff may never come back 'cos not much usage.

[ferol 429]

9 minutes ago, Jon/t said:

Something similar to this exisits in the expert forums and to be honest thats sort of one of the things the expert folk do a lot of, post bugs and wishes. I think I've posted 3 or 4 buggy things this morning.

I think(?) that bugs (and I mean bugs not missing things from legacy) are looked at by how many folk they affect so something very niche may take a while to get fixed but something like the table padding issue got fixed within a couple of weeks.

Pretty much everything anyone mentions here in the forums is known about but again the question is how many folk does it affect.

I remember calls from 2020 when V10 came out and some of the stuff was missing because hardly anyone used it, presentation mode for example. I remember a podcast Ian Small was on ages ago said only 5% of folk used tags... tags not going anywhere!

From what I see some things may get added back in. Other things may get a different solution to the problem. Other stuff may never come back 'cos not much usage.

 

If they would stop supporting Tags, so for me the end with Evernote...  

[Jon/t 1,293]

Just now, ferol said:

If they would stop supporting Tags, so for me the end with Evernote...  

Not gonna happen lol.

[ferol 429]

Just now, Jon/t said:

Not gonna happen lol.

probably not... I was just stating

[AlbertR 532]

6 minutes ago, Jon/t said:

Something similar to this exisits in the expert forums and to be honest thats sort of one of the things the expert folk do a lot of

I'm sure it exists also in Support - but our "problem" from user's POV is that all this is hidden. I'd love to see more about the things that are going on. It would help to shrink down ever and ever upcoming simple and more sophisticated answers in forum groups and other communities.

[AlbertR 532]

11 minutes ago, Jon/t said:

I remember a podcast Ian Small was on ages ago said only 5% of folk used tags

Me too - do you have saved a reference to the post?

[ferol 429]

Maybe it would be enough if a moderator here on the forum can lock a new thread that is duplicated, archive it, and put a redirect at the end of it to an already running thread..
Because currently there is a quantum of similar threads where the same thing is being addressed...

 

[Jon/t 1,293]

4 minutes ago, AlbertR said:

I'm sure it exists also in Support - but our "problem" from user's POV is that all this is hidden. I'd love to see more about the things that are going on. It would help to shrink down ever and ever upcoming simple and more sophisticated answers in forum groups and other communities.

Understand and I've been there myself project managing things. If you make everything open you get 1000 ideas from 1000 people and you never get anywhere. The folks on the expert forums have a very diverse set of skills. Some have communities based around research/education folk, I have thousands of folk who provide me with feedback and there's a few who have communities of business users. For the business users Outlook calendar has been screamed about for ages, but not so much here on the forums... but very, very much wanted by a lot of people. It kind of also gives a perspecitive on how the "mass" users of the product differ from these forums and dare I mention it "Reddit!!!".

8 minutes ago, AlbertR said:

Me too - do you have saved a reference to the post?

I can't remember. Not sure if it was one with the YouTube guy who swaps and changes his apps every 2 mins!! Not Francesco... someone else, no hair like me, possibly Dutch or german??

[gazumped 11,667]

1 hour ago, AlbertR said:

Is it even impossible for you (as a moderator) to move threads around the forum groups?

For the record,  yes - I can (and do) move any post to the correct forum.  I also have the possibility to merge threads - but that puts ALL the posts in strict date order,  so with anything more than a few remarks it mixes up comments and responses and just causes general confusion. And there's occasional spam and bot action which gets nuked.

From my own support experience I have to say that users really should rely on Support and Feedback threads.  As you note - despite the impassioned cases presented here - some of the requests are not as popular as they appear.  Evernote will have some stats somewhere that show them what is most wanted.  That's valuable commercial information,  because if we all decided that Purple was a better colour scheme,  you can bet that most of the competition would be working on that as soon as they could.  It's a notation arms race out there...

Plus if Evernote publishes a table,  they'll get more demands for "why is purple better? I want a grey option..." and complaints if they don't respond,  or take the option off the table.  Like everything else the whole topic is far more complicated than it seems.

Also this is not a democracy and Evernote will deliver the upgrades it can add quickly and cheaply,  and may add more difficult ones later - some it may even develop and hold back... just in case a competitor comes out with some new trick and Evernote can immediately counter with a better one.  Trust me - I've worked for big companies.

IMHO the best thing anyone can do is submit ideas and requests in the standard way and post them for discussion in their favourite social media (or even here...) as a reality check.  I hope Evernote will take a Henry Ford kind've view - back in his day,  what people mostly wanted was bigger horses.  He developed something which satisfied their needs better and didn't cause a run on the shovel market.  Although he did encourage the use of gasoline engines...

[s2sailor 2,205]

55 minutes ago, gazumped said:

IMHO the best thing anyone can do is submit ideas and requests in the standard way and post them for discussion in their favourite social media (or even here...) as a reality check

I agree, and also submit bug reports through the established support channel.

As a user, and someone who occasionally tries to help out here, it would be helpful to have visibility to an active list of problems that are being worked, and ideally, a version number posted for the one with the fix.  That way, we can tell users whether it is a known problem or not.  Currently we tell everyone to submit a ticket which may not be needed and probably isn’t helping the support backlog.

Access to the bug list could be limited to the experts group and maybe a few moderators, if Evernote didn’t want it to be visible to all.  Just a thought…

[gazumped 11,667]

I was also thinking that directing users to the 'right' place to ask questions / report issues might be best dealt with by using something like Airtable to index queries by OS / EN version / feature / error...  but that would be expensive to develop and result in a l-o-n-g questionnaire for users to fill in...  

I'll leave that as an exercise for someone else!

[ferol 429]

look here...

 

somethink like this will be for users perfect..

 

But I dont know, if for BS is this good for marketing... and concurents will see it..

 

https://notesnook.com/roadmap/

[s2sailor 2,205]

Roadmaps, though great and interesting for users are a tricky thing.  If you are a new company trying to build up to the competition it may be useful to show all of the upcoming stuff you are working on to attract users.  If you are a mature company, or the industry leader, opening the kimono into your development plans may not be the best idea.  It could give your competition a look into your future plans.  Plus, Evernote has never published a roadmap, I would be surprised if they started now.  Federico's twitter leaks are the most heads up I've think we've ever seen.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,961]

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

I was also thinking that directing users to the 'right' place to ask questions / report issues might be...

Sorry, this just gave me a "ha ha"--considering how little attention users pay to the current options in the forum to post stuff in the right place, I can't imagine that many people would want to spend time getting "directed."