Where are you Evernote?

[Majortom 17]

Since 2-3 years now, the app seems to be going down the drain. The whole world moves fast and Evernote seems to have taken the exit from the motorway. I was just about to push it to a team of 100 users a couple of years ago and get into business accounts when the maps feature went out. This was the first sign that frustrated me, as the reps with mobile devices miss the feature to map their notes and to be able to search around a location. 

Then, we had the recent updates of the mobile apps that have miraculously deteriorated the performance of the iOS version and have multiplied the bugs. I just finished attending Dreamforce and the photo feature did not allow me to edit the frame of the doc. I hit  "validate” and then the picture is saved as it was taken. Boom. Imagine for how many slides i have now unedited pictures. And how much unnecessary space they occupy in my digital universe. 

And since speaking for Dreamforce, where are you guys? You have an app that is supposed to be connected with Salesforce, you have a user type called "business”, you have the whole event just around your corner, and you dont have a booth here? Seriously? 

From the outside we see that you indeed tried to make the company running better and deliver results back to the shareholders, and stop selling socks and printers. Fine. But how did you manage to disconnect the product from the business users and deteriorate the performance? The app and the concept of EN haven't yet gone out of the market. You can hit the gas pedal, turn left and come back to the motorway again. By the way, Quip is already a coupler of miles aheady

I hate to say this, but this may be the break-up letter. Anyway, any response to dialogue is always welcome.

cheers 

[DTLow 5,736]

In my use, Evernote is a service.  
This is working well for me; I'm not seeing any changes to my use for the foreseeable future.

For over a decade, Evernote has been processing and organizing my data: currently 12k notes at 10GB
The note content is mostly PDFs , Word/Pages documents, Excel/Numbers spreadsheets, ...

There are other features; gravy to the main course
The service includes a free editor providing basic features.  I use it for simple notes, nothing complex.
I'm using the Mac and IOS apps, and the web access as backup

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

Quip... I guess there is some overlap there, but one of the reasons I got on board with Evernote in the first place was its old philosophy of being an anti-social network app, meaning that it was a place for you and your thoughts -- a place to get things done without getting sucked into emails, chats, games, and so forth. I don't know what the work chat feature is even for (it tries to open up the web page on my mobile devices, and they broke the web site in iOS years ago, so that's no good--on my computer the link sends me to nothing anyhow), but since it is only a teeny-tiny part of my experience, I haven't gotten around to trying to figure out why it isn't working (I think the last time I was successful with it was back in 2016). So, yes, maybe Evernote has some work to do if it is trying to appeal to business users looking for that Quip-like experience, but for my use-case, there aren't many serious issues. 

I hope you get everything sorted! But, I've generally found my usage to fluctuate without the need for a break-up letter -- when things aren't working well for me, I shift my work into something else for a while and wait until things get sorted. Maybe you'll find that to be a useful strategy as well.

[CalS 5,280]

The last couple of years have been replete with issues and missteps from EN, some of which affected me, some not.  If anything EN has shaved a bit of my productivity during that time with the addition of some prettiness without thought to functional impact (never have been able to determine why they don't design for form and function).  I have no need for the sharing and business bits and bobs so I just ignore them. 

Most importantly EN continues to support my core use case of second brain across multiple platforms.  Put stuff in, manage it, find it with ease.  EN does this very well, for me.  Haven't seen anything on the market that matches my needs as well.  As always, horses for courses.

[Majortom 17]

I appreciate much all the reposnses here. Indeed EN is still supporting our notes as they are still in the business. My point was about seeing the app slowing down as their competitors are moving forward. And the purpose of the break-up letter was to tell them why I am frustrated to make my voice heard, because I care. I love the app I used to have, I would love to use it with my team and I just don't wanna leave. The easiest thing is to go to any other similar app that supports exported notes from EN and that's all. 

Hope they listen

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,950]

@Majortom, let me suggest that you look at the half-dozen or so other recent threads here basically saying some version of "Evernote is doomed" or "can't take it any longer, migrating out of Evernote". I wouldn't think you'd have the time on your hands to track them down, but it might be especially instructive to look at the ones from two or three years ago. There have been a lot of frustrations, especially with the bugginess of the Windows program for the last year or so. But it sounds like Evernote is still functioning for what you need. Sometimes I wonder if there isn't a version of buyer's remorse at work in this. People like you and me who are committed to using Evernote and want it to succeed see all kinds of competition rising up, and get worried. Honestly, as long as it works for me, I'm not concerned. Perhaps a selfish view, I don't know. Are you using the new "Business" level of Evernote? Myself, I'm kind of with @GrumpyMonkey: I like EN as an "anti-social network." 

[Majortom 17]

@Dave-in-Decatur @DTLow great that it works for you, but let me get this straight: saying that EN still works for me because they still process my notes does not precisely respond to the question Where are they today? How it actually ended up from gathering points to visit the HQ and buy socks and cardholders and join Dreamforce like events with Mythbusters at the keynote to the side of the tech world. And this is what frustrates me. Their absence.

A couple of years ago, the Atlas function vanished overnight. With no reason why. A great feature for field based note takers was just removed. I raised the question here. Then: silence

I am not really active in this forum, so I will spare some time later to find a post that en EN employee answers (meaningfully) a difficult question. It looks like we are all discussing in their backyard, the lights in the house are on and nobody neither comes at the window to yell "shut up" nor steps down to speak with us and explain

Anyway guys, thanks for being involved here

[DTLow 5,736]

Just to be clear; you are posting in a user discussion forum.

Evernote employees do pop in on specific issue discussions.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

The lack of forewarning or discussion about the removal, addition, tweaking, or reshuffling of features has been a perennial problem for Evernote. Atlas was not a feature I used mich, but I still remember the day they suddenly dropped it from the app. Who operates this way with features they encourage us to become dependent upon? It’s frustrating, but after a decade, not really something that seems likely to improve. I don’t think this attitude / policy is recognized internally as a “problem” to be “solved.”

I don’t really mind Evernote being out of all the news feeds — as long as they are making the app better. Some things have undoubtedly improved. But, in my opinion, it sounds like you have what we used to call a “power user” use case (I’d call that a loyal, committed, evangelist one), and until Evernote addresses the needs of those users (usually just with a commitment to deliver on the existing features, like Atlas), I think they’re going to continue missing out on great revenue opportunities. 

They still meet the needs of my “second brain” use case, so I’m satisfied overall. But, even with my relatively straightforward use case, there is still a lot of room for improvement. Let’s keep giving them useful feedback!

[Gear64 43]

I wonder if at some level what they're constantly bumping up against is the internal cost of feature support against a palatable price point to provide them. At some interval; quarterly, annually, whatever they reassess and some things don't make the cut.  In my case all I want is capture, storage, quick retrieval, MULTI-PLATFORM.  I don't need much fluff, fancy editor, team sharing etc.  I'd prefer not to pay for fluff.  One question Evernote needs to deal with is; are there more dollars in people like me in volume (is there a volume of people like me?), or more money in maybe a smaller subset willing to pay corporate pricing? In my use case PLUS is a good value.  Premium is not. Left with only choice of Premium I would look more closely at an alternative like Nimbus Note.  At some point more features, particularly sophisticated features really drive up the cost of development, maintenance, and quality assurance.

[DTLow 5,736]

21 minutes ago, Gear64 said:

One question Evernote needs to deal with is; are there more dollars in people like me in volume 

imho  The answer is no.  There's not the market for the basic data service.
The market is looking for editor features.

[Gear64 43]

6 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I think the answer is no.  There's not the market for the basic data service.

I think there may be for second tiers and/or up and comers. As much as I've enjoyed Evernote in the relatively short time I've been using it, I'm concerned it's matured to the point of rapid entropy.  In other words I'm too late to the game. For long term users potentially like yourself,  I have the perception there were the 'good years'.  I sometimes wonder if I wouldn't be better served trying to catch the next wave that's hungry and responsive, with better pricing models.  Likely they will become Evernote today sometime in the future, then it will be time to catch the next wave. The risk is that company fails short term, or is never quite as good.  For now I'm content, but based on other posts of various past events, I'm wary someday my pricing, or the features attached to that pricing will change significantly sooner than later. 

[Majortom 17]

18 minutes ago, DTLow said:

imho  The answer is no.  There's not the market for the basic data service.
The market is looking for editor features.

Since this million dollar question is answered, we come to the point of the theme of my topic: Where is EN into the business world.

As an "evangelist" - thanks @GrumpyMonkey for the precise title - of the EN concept, I very much applauded the connection with Salesforce. Scenario is simple: Sales reps visits the customer, opens the template that matches with the record of the VR or the opportunity on his tablet and when at the office, makes the sync. His life is simplified, work done fast in better quality than before and everyone is happy.

Why is this freakingly great solution NOT promoted to business customers?

Clearly, if EN is not present at DF18 or any DF I have been in the past few years this means that they don't see this as a long time investment.

And as the world is moving fast - MS365, MS Teams, Quip, Google Notes, to name few - I fear that EN has lost the momentum of the innovation they had 10 years ago, and is left with basic or free users that are happy because the app is running. Premium users are called so not because they pay a premium for extra features, but because they have elevated needs and ideas and are considered to be influencers in their environment to sell the business subscription

 

[Majortom 17]

And let me please underline that free or basic must do care what is EN delivering to higher tier subscriptions, because if the company will stop making money from those that pay, the basic ones will soon lose what they enjoy

[Gear64 43]

7 minutes ago, Majortom said:

And let me please underline that free or basic must do care what is EN delivering to higher tier subscriptions, because if the company will stop making money from those that pay, the basic ones will soon lose what they enjoy

So here's my conundrum as a personal user.  I adopted Evernote as Basic.  I saw the value and wanted a few more features so went to PLUS.  I've maybe mentioned Nozbe here, definitely on Reddit.  I love Nozbe, but I see more value in Evernote, that's where I put my money for now.  Nozbe has a free tier that meets my needs.  Their lowest paid tier is too expensive, more expensive than Evernote Premium.  I won't pay that much for two services.  I'd be willing to pay a mid tier cost like PLUS.  If free went away so be it, it's a luxury not a necessity. As far as that goes Evernote is the in the same category.  It offers a convenience that's worth some cost, but at the end of the day spiral bound notebooks served me well for decades.  You can buy a lot of notebooks for a subscription, but in reality I'd likely fall back to OneNote; or trial an up and comer.

[Gear64 43]

33 minutes ago, Majortom said:

And as the world is moving fast - MS365, MS Teams, Quip, Google Notes, to name few

The problem here is Evernote is niche.  They don't have a monopoly to piggyback onto, so in some ways their future may be better served by being lean in features and affordable in cost.

[Majortom 17]

4 hours ago, Gear64 said:

The problem here is Evernote is niche.  They don't have a monopoly to piggyback onto, so in some ways their future may be better served by being lean in features and affordable in cost.

lean and affordable cost for us who are likely to deliver a portion of their revenue stream. They key is how to access business accounts. And of the tools mentioned here, see which one does not have quick access to a pool of professional users

[Gear64 43]

42 minutes ago, Majortom said:

lean and affordable cost for us who are likely to deliver a portion of their revenue stream. They key is how to access business accounts. And of the tools mentioned here, see which one does not have quick access to a pool of professional users

I'm not sure I understand, but if I do, the reason they have quick access is MS and Google in particular are giving away fries with their hamburgers.  Every employer in my 30+ year career has been on MS platform.  For as long as MS has provided Office, every employer I worked for provided Office.  For as long as Office has provided OneNote every employer has provided OneNote. I don't like OneNote so I tried EverNote.  I like it much better, but not more so enough to pay much more than I already do, when a free to me product is already on every computer I use. If you can get enough adoption that EverNote falls through to me as a free tool from my employer that would be awesome, but I don't see that happening in the near future.

[jefito 5,589]

23 hours ago, GrumpyMonkey said:

Who operates this way with features they encourage us to become dependent upon?

Um, Google certainly does... multiple offender there, with multiple products.

[jefito 5,589]

10 hours ago, Gear64 said:

The problem here is Evernote is niche.  They don't have a monopoly to piggyback onto, so in some ways their future may be better served by being lean in features and affordable in cost.

Not sure what 'lean' refers to in this case, but anyways, It's pretty affordable for me at least. I mean really -- and I've said this in other posts -- my coffee bill beats my Evernote bill by rather a wide margin. That being said, it's not clear to me that dropping the  Plus level was a great ida, but I don't have insight into their numbers,,,

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

45 minutes ago, jefito said:

Um, Google certainly does... multiple offender there, with multiple products.

Google Notebook, I think it was, that was abandoned. Now something called Notes has taken its place, but I rarely use it.

In my experience, Google usually gives you a heads up before changing course on things. I've rarely had any issues with suddenly lost / gained / tweaked features. 

My point, though, was that it is generally a bad sign when you treat your customers that way, and customers rarely stick around in the long term if you do. It's not that Evernote isn't allowed to change. It's that they do it willy-nilly without telling us beforehand. I'd like them to stop doing that.

[jefito 5,589]

Just now, GrumpyMonkey said:

Google Notebook, I think it was, that was abandoned. Now something called Notes has taken its place, but I rarely use it.

Google Notebooks was an earlier product; those were moved into Google Docs, and the new one is Google Keep. But that's just for note taking; Google does have a history of dropping useful  products or major features and replacing them wholesale, or letting them just die on the vine. The history of Google messaging apps is another fruit of this dubious tree.

I'm not in favor of this practice, btw, but you did ask "who operates this way?", maybe you meant it rhetorically?

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

5 hours ago, jefito said:

Google Notebooks was an earlier product; those were moved into Google Docs, and the new one is Google Keep. But that's just for note taking; Google does have a history of dropping useful  products or major features and replacing them wholesale, or letting them just die on the vine. The history of Google messaging apps is another fruit of this dubious tree.

I'm not in favor of this practice, btw, but you did ask "who operates this way?", maybe you meant it rhetorically?

It wasn't exactly rhetorical. Really, who does operate this way. As you said, Google drops useful products. A good example would be the (bizarre?) abandonment of its RSS reader.   The difference is that it warned us all ahead of time. Great. I don't understand why they did that, but it's their product, and their choice. In my experience, Google doesn't just stop support for things one day, without warning or explanation.

In Evernote, shared notebook support went away one day -- I think they just stopped letting free users (?) make them, as I recall. Atlas disappeared one day. No particular reason. They just cut it out of the app. It's that kind of stuff that I think is a shame. The mobile web version is another thing I miss, and I would have appreciated a heads up on that as well.I'm not sure why Evernote resists signaling changes ahead of time.

[Majortom 17]

10 hours ago, GrumpyMonkey said:

It wasn't exactly rhetorical. Really, who does operate this way. As you said, Google drops useful products. A good example would be the (bizarre?) abandonment of its RSS reader.   The difference is that it warned us all ahead of time. Great. I don't understand why they did that, but it's their product, and their choice. In my experience, Google doesn't just stop support for things one day, without warning or explanation.

In Evernote, shared notebook support went away one day -- I think they just stopped letting free users (?) make them, as I recall. Atlas disappeared one day. No particular reason. They just cut it out of the app. It's that kind of stuff that I think is a shame. The mobile web version is another thing I miss, and I would have appreciated a heads up on that as well.I'm not sure why Evernote resists signaling changes ahead of time.

Maybe this great app would have different future if it is integrated as a supplementary offer to the services of another giant. I just don’t know to which one

[jefito 5,589]

9 hours ago, GrumpyMonkey said:

The difference is that it warned us all ahead of time.

No dispute there; communications from Evernote about feature removals should definitely be better; I'd expand that to removals, additions, and changes (some clients are better than others in that respect).

9 hours ago, GrumpyMonkey said:

In Evernote, shared notebook support went away one day -- I think they just stopped letting free users (?) make them, as I recall.

I don't think that this is true -- I still share notebooks from my free account to my personal account. Maybe they're grandfathered in? Anyway, I ran a test just now to check it and I was able to share a notebook from a free account to a paid account successfully, though with some rigmarole: had to receive a work chat on the target account, and then join the notebook from work chat.

 

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

5 hours ago, Majortom said:

Maybe this great app would have different future if it is integrated as a supplementary offer to the services of another giant. I just don’t know to which one

Unlikely. I can't think of any services I enjoy more because someone bigger took them over. I imagine the business aspects might improve, though.

 

4 hours ago, jefito said:

No dispute there; communications from Evernote about feature removals should definitely be better; I'd expand that to removals, additions, and changes (some clients are better than others in that respect).

I don't think that this is true -- I still share notebooks from my free account to my personal account. Maybe they're grandfathered in? Anyway, I ran a test just now to check it and I was able to share a notebook from a free account to a paid account successfully, though with some rigmarole: had to receive a work chat on the target account, and then join the notebook from work chat.

 

I don't remember what the deal was. I think in August 2014 they suddenly dropped some degree of support for public notebooks. Maybe that's back as well. It ought to be documented by me somewhere in the forums. 

Work chat... I don't know what is going on there. This week I have to get that sorted, because I have a pending chat request I cannot actually access. It just shuttles me to the clunky web version of Evernote. That's another story, though.

[jefito 5,589]

2 hours ago, GrumpyMonkey said:

I don't remember what the deal was. I think in August 2014 they suddenly dropped some degree of support for public notebooks.

Ah, ok -- I think that's the difference. I was referring to notebooks that you share to another Evernote user that appear in your account, and I think you're referring to publicly shared notebook that's available to anyone who has its URL. I don't see a way to do this with the current WIndows application, at least as described here: https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/208314748-Share-notebooks. No "Publish" menu item that I can find.

[Metrodon 2,184]

Didn't they limit the sharing to 1 notebook for a free user account? They may have reverted back since. Some external brain this is...

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

Hahaha. Garbage in, garbage out. Or, maybe this time, nothing in, so nothing comes out. The fact that three users that have been around here for about a decade haven't mastered this is telling, in my opinion. That's what happens when they muck around with things without making it clear what they're doing.

[jefito 5,589]

3 hours ago, Metrodon said:

Didn't they limit the sharing to 1 notebook for a free user account? They may have reverted back since. Some external brain this is...

Not as far as I know -- I've share 4 notebooks from my free work account to my paid personal account for years, and was able to add another when I tested it yesterday. Couldn't tell from any written documentation I could find that that's changed.

17 minutes ago, GrumpyMonkey said:

The fact that three users that have been around here for about a decade haven't mastered this is telling, in my opinion.

That's putting a lot of credit on the smarts of those three users...  

More seriously, there's lots of ways to use Evernote; mine entails some light sharing between my self and my work self, but it's pretty static rather than dynamic as would be among a small group of people working together, so I can't speak from much experience.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

1 hour ago, jefito said:

Not as far as I know -- I've share 4 notebooks from my free work account to my paid personal account for years, and was able to add another when I tested it yesterday. Couldn't tell from any written documentation I could find that that's changed.

That's putting a lot of credit on the smarts of those three users...  

More seriously, there's lots of ways to use Evernote; mine entails some light sharing between my self and my work self, but it's pretty static rather than dynamic as would be among a small group of people working together, so I can't speak from much experience.

I'm not sharing much stuff now either. There was a time when I did, and I'd like to, but it became too much of a hassle. If I were a business user, I think I'd either have to sit down and get myself sorted, or I'd be on Evernote's case about it. As an individual, though, my biggest issues are elsewhere, so it isn't something I'm losing sleep over. 

Returning to the thread topic, I'd be thrilled to have monthly podcasts and perhaps a monthly rollout of a major bug fix / existing feature improvement. 

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,950]

13 hours ago, jefito said:

Ah, ok -- I think that's the difference. I was referring to notebooks that you share to another Evernote user that appear in your account, and I think you're referring to publicly shared notebook that's available to anyone who has its URL. I don't see a way to do this with the current WIndows application, at least as described here: https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/208314748-Share-notebooks. No "Publish" menu item that I can find.

In the current version, right-click a notebook in the Left Panel > Share Notebook... > Modify Notebook Permissions. That pops up another dialog with a Publish button to create a public link to the notebook. But I don't know exactly what this does, because I haven't tried it.

3 hours ago, jefito said:

some light sharing between my self and my work self

Whoa, that's, like, cosmic, man. ?

[jefito 5,589]

59 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

In the current version, right-click a notebook in the Left Panel > Share Notebook... > Modify Notebook Permissions. That pops up another dialog with a Publish button to create a public link to the notebook. But I don't know exactly what this does, because I haven't tried it.

Thanks, I'll have to try that.

59 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Whoa, that's, like, cosmic, man. ?

Ha-ha, that's barely scratching the surface.  But really, it's actually pretty simple and grounded. This just refers to my personal paid account and my free work account; I share a few notebooks between each: a couple of software development/research-y notebooks from my personal account, since they're rather large (for me) and they'd apply to any job I have, and a few notebooks specific to my current job from my work account, which saves me from logging out of my home account when I'm working at home.

A lot more boring than it may have sounded...

[Metrodon 2,184]

I'm the same as Jef - a paid personal account and freebie that I share stuff to for work. This lets me have stuff on my disgusting Windows work laptop that I occasionally have to use as well as my Mac.

It's a system that's worked well for me for a number of years, but it's very simple. 

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

Same for me. A free account I log into from any machine, with stuff in it I need anywhere, and another main, paid account for everything else. No dopplegangers here either. My free self has a more marked receding hairline, but otherwise he’s the same as my paid self.