Is it true? -- No Local Files Ver 10? Why Was EN Churning my HD? Why Having to Relaunch EN Daily

[Paddytc 4]

1. No Local Files w Ver 10?? A user in another non-EN forum posted "As an EN user, you're probably aware they recently moved entirely to the Cloud. So no more local storage and synching. That has its pros and cons and some users have left EN because their internet connection isn't fast enough." I searched this Forum, and found some hints that this might be true, but I didn't realize it before. This was always a feature that I valued, not depending on the cloud to protect my years of files. Doesn't seem to be a way to get definitive answer, only option is to post here.

2. So, why was EN churning one of my hard drives at 100% today even though it's not stored there? I quit EN (File/Exit), and yet a process continued to run in Task Manager on Windows, showing it was responsible for the drive being maxed out in activity, and it continued long after quitting EN.

3. Frequent Non-responding crashes with the legacy 6.25 and earlier were a problem; now ver 10 seems to have gained this problem, with at least once a day finding that a popup asks me to relaunch or wait when I click on a note in the desktop app. I've got high speed internet and fast PC running on SS memory, six CPU cores, 24 GB RAM.

[DTLow 5,737]

No, it isn't true    
The master version of our data is stored in the cloud on the Evernote servers    
but by default, a full data copy is stored on our Mac/Windows devices    
This is optional and can be disabled in Evernote>Preferences

[MrIllustrator 165]

I was also under the assumption that Evernote no longer held any local copy of your date on your computer but instead puts all your eggs in one unbackupable remote basket.

You say that by default a full data copy is held on all computers but can be disabled in Evernote>Preferences. See screenshot of Evernote Preferences below, both of them.

First of all can you tell me where on my Mac is this data copy held and secondly where in the two options in the tiny Evernote Preferences does it say I can disable this? Of course I don't want to disable this but just checking on what you are saying because this has been contradicted so many times before on this forum as you know, I need proof. Location for instance on my computer would be nice.

My preferences as does everyone's gives you just two options. 1. Check Spelling While Typing & 2. Save Data and Log out.

I'm running 10.15.6

Thanks

[PinkElephant 8,197]

The option is „Save data at Log Out“. This is meant to hold a local copy for offline use.

To run a backup you need to export your database. For a Backup usually the ENEX export is chosen. You can export a notebook at a time - which is advisable because the information about the notebook is lost when exporting. 

By creating one ENEX file per notebook, and putting the notebook name into the file name you retain this information.

The legacy client is better for backing up, because you can run a script to export all notebooks in one activity. V10 does not (yet ?) support scripting.

[DTLow 5,737]

1 hour ago, MrIllustrator said:

I need proof. Location for instance on my computer would be nice.

Windows          C:/users/<youraccount>/appdata/roaming /evernote
Mac                     /Users/<youraccount>/Library/Application Support/Evernote

[MrIllustrator 165]

Thank you DTLow & Pink Elephant,

I am having problems though, first of all, DTLow, I don't have a Library folder in my user folder, so I did a search in my user folder and I also don't have a Application Support folder in there either, so I'm sorry I can't follow your simple path to what you say. Update, minutes later, for anyone trying to follow this, I've just found the application support folder by doing the following because it's actually hidden by default in the finder: See procedure below:

Specific for User

Open the Finder
Click on the 'Go' menu in the top menu bar.
Hold down the 'Option' key on the keyboard
'Library' should appear in the menu between 'Home' and 'Computer'
There you will find the 'Application Support' folder. 🙂

 

Having done this I then found an "Evernote" folder inside the "Application Support" folder correctly and checked the file size and see that it probably could be my data because it's 9.4gb in size though opening it shows nothing I understand as a backup. The question is of course then, if something goes wrong with the cloud Evernote end would a new install of Evernote application be able to access this local data and start again without having to go onto the internet looking for the files that may no longer exist because of some distant corruption/problem with some unknown  Evernote server computer.

Pink Elephant,

Thank you I knew about the exporting of individual notebooks but I was looking for a simple, non thinking backup like everything else I backup on my computer. I and just about everyone else will not do that procedure regularly because it just takes too long and my setup is relatively simple with only 27 notebooks, I know some users have many many more so wouldn't even attempt it that way so would never ever backup.

For the moment because it's so much better I run a Classic version of Evernote on a separate computer for own pice of mind and sync it so I know I can access the data on that old computer correctly and easily, I was really interested in the safety and feasibility of keeping your data save in the new version 10+

You see I ask a simple question and it goes on and on. It boils down now to, "Is that Evernote folder in my application support folder" a proper backup of all my data that could be accessed by a clean installed Evernote 10+ for when Evernote pull the plug on the classic working version which could be any time.

Thanks for your valuable time.

[gazumped 11,713]

12 minutes ago, MrIllustrator said:

"Is that Evernote folder in my application support folder" a proper backup of all my data

Hi.  Your local folder is not a backup. It is the working databases for the app to use when dealing with local queries.  You need it for offline access,  but if you restore Evernote from backup,  the new installation will download a new working database from the server,  which is the ultimate parent copy.  To keep a local backup you need to download your notes as ENEX files,  notebook by notebook,  from that server parent.  To restore you would need to re-import some or all of those backups as new notebooks.  There is no current Evernote 'easy' solution for this - like you,  I run an older version and use Backupery to automate the notebook-by-notebook export of my 300 or so notebooks.

[MrIllustrator 165]

Thank you Gazumped,

To sum up below so you don't have to read all this rubbish I've written:

You can't backup Evernote 10.

You can stop here if you like because too much has been said about a very simple answer, unless I'm wrong of course.

If you want to read the explanation, read on:

That's very interesting Gazumped, thank you and what I was worried would be the case. I follow a logical backup strategy that ensures all my data is triple safe, different locations/software/hardware backing it up. What you are saying is that Evernote is outside my backup system and everyone else's for that matter, just as I was worried it was all along. This is of course not acceptable.

So if a new installation of Evernote can't use the Evernote folder in the application support folder to re-instate itself then it's of no use to me as a backup as DTLow implies it is, according to what you have just told me, it's not.

Also If I'm expected to individually export all my 27 notebooks (most users have many more) it would simply not be done by me or just about 99.9% of existing Evernote users at a guess so again that's no good for me or anyone else.

Personally I'm okay for now because I, like yourself am running the Classic version on another computer but when that classic version is made to stop working I won't have a current backup of my Evernote data then and it will continue to go more and more out of date using version 10 (for all intents and purposes un-backup able) until if something goes wrong I'm stuffed, like everyone else. This is a terrible system to work to. We must all have reliable backups ourselves, under own own control and not rely on a third party whoever they are. Surly this must go without saying.

I must always have multiple backups of all my data because it's important and I value it. It's amazing to me how many people don't even consider backing up the most basic of their irreplaceable work. I know friends and family that have lost wonderful family photos, birth photos amongst others because they were on their phone and they didn't back it up. Memories lost for ever. That's bad enough, I'm also talking about very important information to me.

I do get the feeling some time that Evernote think we just put silly little notes in it and to do lists and that's it. I'm afraid I don't, my whole life is on there.

Again, you see, I ask a simple question on this forum and I get multiple conflicting answers from very experienced clever people.

I asked a question a few months ago and got a similar responce about security with my notes, conflicting answers from very clever experienced users, I gave up with that one because everyone was sure they knew the answer but they were all not just different but conflicting. I'm talking level 5's with thousands of posts to their names.

This is one of the most frustrating forums I've ever visited. I'm sure it's to do with the software not the users.

So to sum up if anyone is following this about how to backup your Evernote 10 data = for the normal average user "You Can't" 

For instance: Gazumped, you say you have around 300 note books, how regularly are you individually exporting these?

I've only exported my 27 or so notebooks once because it's a complete pain, the opposite of what a backup strategy should be.

That's what I've got from these answers so far. I can't consider individually exporting 27 notebooks on a regular basis and, (I heard of one user having thousands of notebooks) is someone really going to tell anyone with a largish number of notebooks to do this, it can't be defended by any stretch of the imagination.

Again, thank you everyone for your time. The only thing is, all I really needed anyone to say is the simple answer to my question:

You can't backup Evernote 10.

That's the answer for the vast majority of users then.

In real life, it simply won't happen.

No one in their right minds should rely on, or defend, a third party cloud service that insists that you keep all your eggs, sorry valuable data in one very fragile basket.

If it's in one place it's not backed up is it.

[PinkElephant 8,197]

No, you can’t backup v10 on a regular, say daily or weekly basis; at least not with a reasonable amount of work.

You can export your data - because of the manual effort needed this is probably a one-timer when switching to another service.

Or you put your „valuables“ into a specific notebook, and export this from time to time.

About fragilness of the cloud service:

• EN runs AFAIK in Goggle data centers. Not only in one, it is a distributed setup, including multiple copies of your data. So even if a big stone drops from the sky 🌠, secure ✅
• Your own obligation is to keep your access secure. So use a strong and unique password and enable 2FA. When done, secure ✅
• Then there is note history to come back to an earlier version of a note, if mistakenly edited or moved into the trash. As long as you have not emptied the trash, secure ✅

If you really, really want a local backup, get the legacy client. It will first create a local data base on your computer, and you then have more options to export data. If you sleep better then, why not.

Personally I run legacy for other reasons, and that Time Machine is grabbing that local database among other stuff is no harm.

[CalS 5,284]

2 hours ago, MrIllustrator said:

You can't backup Evernote 10.

You may be able to sort of backup V10 using the save data at log out feature.  Should something go awry you could disconnect from the internet, restore the backup, and then go through the pain of exporting your notes.  You would lose any activity since the last backup.  Not 100% sure this works with V10 as I am still on V6.25.1 myself.  But logically it should assuming the save data at logout actually works (test by disconnecting from the internet).  Probably not the answer you are seeking.   🤷‍♂️

Relative to backups I have been using Backupery with legacy EN for some time.  I have 8 notebooks, 5 synced and 3 local.  Two of the notebooks are typically empty, INBOX (synced) and Scans (local).  Anyway I have Backupery set to back up to ENEX at 1 AM each day.  Once a week I zip/encrypt the local backups to the cloud.  Backupery does not work with V10 at this point.  Another future PITA should I decide to stick with EN when 6.25.1 goes paws up.  😟

[DTLow 5,737]

3 hours ago, MrIllustrator said:

then it's of no use to me as a backup as DTLow implies it is

At no time did I imply "use as a backup"  for Evernote's v10 product
You asked about v10 local storage and the location; I supplied the information

I use the Evernote Legacy product and my personal backups include    
- Mac Time Machine,  
- Daily incremental, weekly full exports in html format   
  The exports are automated with scripting (Mac Applescript)   
This is in addition to Evernote's data sync to the server, and Note History backup

>>opening it shows nothing I understand (local data)

I spent the time to understand the local storage of the Legacy and v10 products   
The v10 local storage is difficult to use since the .enml note data is merged into a single file

[gazumped 11,713]

On 6/5/2021 at 12:00 PM, MrIllustrator said:

For instance: Gazumped, you say you have around 300 note books, how regularly are you individually exporting these?

Hi again - my daily export is courtesy of Backupery,  which deals with all the boring business of creating a series of backup files in a single folder.  In Windows it's also possible to build a batch file which will do the same job with one click whenever you wish...

[DTLow 5,737]

32 minutes ago, gazumped said:

In Windows it's also possible to build a batch file which will do the same job with one click whenever you wish...

That would use scripting (ENScript with Evernote Legacy)
Scripting also works on a Mac (Applescript)