Unable to Annotate images copied from the Web

[Mike P 2,798]

I raised this at the beta stage but it is still an issue and I think it is important that everybody understands it.

If you copy and paste an image from a website into a note you would expect that image to be in your note wouldn't you. Wrong. All EN does is copy and paste a link to the image. This means:

• If the image is removed or changed on the website it will be removed from or changed in your note
• You cannot annotate the image - the option is simply not there
• The image does not show up as a thumbnail in the snippet or card view
• You can't download the image (because it's not there)

To me this is a serious breach of the trust we have put in EN to safely store our data. If we knowingly add a link we know the webpage it links to can be changed. If we copy and paste content into our notes we expect it to be safe. As far as I can see webclipped images and images added as files are OK so it is just copying and pasting images from the web.

 

[Mike P 2,798]

20 minutes ago, gazumped said:

It does mean that if that page is changed or removed,  or the URL changes,  then access to images will be lost,  so it's no longer true that a clip from a page is a reliable snapshot of the content.

This is the key point. I deliberately didn't use the word security but used safety instead. The raison d'etre of a note taking app is to keep your notes safe (in the sense of unchangeable) and accessible and I think that in this case EN has failed to do this.

20 minutes ago, gazumped said:

It probably makes sense from Evernote's point of view not to store an actual image

In most cases though it is storing the actual image. I would imagine that images copy and pasted in from a website are a smallish proportion of the total images on their servers. Webclipped and images added as files are still added to the note correctly.  And where do they stop? Online pdf's replaced by a link when you clip them?

[gazumped 11,810]

If I found the right web page - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54483853 - then you're right that this is a change,  though it's not a security issue.  No-one can reach in and change your notes in any way other than removing or changing images if the original is changed. 

I copied the same page in 6.25 and got a 3.1MB note with an annotatable image.

It does mean that if that page is changed or removed,  or the URL changes,  then access to images will be lost,  so it's no longer true that a clip from a page is a reliable snapshot of the content.

It probably makes sense from Evernote's point of view not to store an actual image - across millions of notes that would save a server farm or two's worth of space.  But saving the link instead is another way in which this new version is a stripped-down shadow of its former self...

[lisec 284]

That is a huge deal.  The whole point of putting something into Evernote is to *save* it - you know, the whole "put all your stuff in ONE place!" business. If we wanted to rely on the original information (the original website) we would just save a shortcut to the url in our browser, and we all know that links don't last.  Yes, there are other ways to save images (taking a screenshot, webclipper) but if Evernote starts to make these sorts of exceptions, and we have to keep track of what gets *saved* and what doesn't, it becomes a less reliable place for our information and that defeats the purpose.

[lisec 284]

5 hours ago, Mike P said:

I raised this at the beta stage but it is still an issue and I think it is important that everybody understands it.

If you copy and paste an image from a website into a note you would expect that image to be in your note wouldn't you. Wrong. All EN does is copy and paste a link to the image.

Mike, I would modify the title of this post to something more akin to indicating that copied images are linked rather than saved. I think it is too important to a change, and people have to know. 

[Mike P 2,798]

I've tried various titles in the past including something akin to what you suggest. I'm disappointed that very few people have grasped the magnitude of this change. Perhaps most people don't copy and paste images from websites. However I'll change the title as you suggest.

[Chris_NL 43]

This is really concerning. Al tough the webclipper still makes a copy of the image.

[DMiddleton 302]

20 hours ago, lisec said:

That is a huge deal.  The whole point of putting something into Evernote is to *save* it - you know, the whole "put all your stuff in ONE place!" business. If we wanted to rely on the original information (the original website) we would just save a shortcut to the url in our browser, and we all know that links don't last. 

Completely agree, non point to this feature if it does not saved the content as a snapshot in time.

@MikeP just another of the beta issues that seems to have been ignored! 

[lhb 66]

I had this happen in the past as well, so this is not new behavior. See also this thread: Missing image in note - General Technical Issues - Evernote User Forum. It was suggested I report it as a bug, which I did. but it seems I did not accomplish to convey the problem, and all I got were some well-meant suggestions on how to create, edit or fix a note. My problem, however, is that I don't know which notes are affected in the first place. In the editor you never know until you are offline. Most of the affected or edited notes are old (you'll notice when the original source moved, but then it's late). Correspondingly, providing the activity log does not help.

I never managed to find out under what conditions images are saved as link (referenced) or as a local resource (included). It seemed to depend on the web site clips were taken from. However it also seemed that the behavior on one web site was not consistent, in the sense that some were included, others referenced.

It would be useful to have some script to scan notes for images that are not included as resources and flag them, maybe through a tag, so one could examine them. Again, in the Evernote editor I cannot see whether images are included or referenced.

And I really don't want to get into personally editing ENEX files. Furthermore the export/import probably (?) destroys the note history, so I am losing something else.

 

[CCaesar 0]

Hello Evernote community,

Recently I have switched from Evernote Mac to Evernote Windows.

After switching the OS, I have noticed that Evernote Windows is not giving me an option to annotate images copied directly from a web - i. e. if the picture is copied from Google search results, Mac Evernote allows to annotate it, while Windows App is not giving any options to annotate it. The only workaround is to save image to PC and upload it to the note - in such instance annotation option is available.

 

Strangely if I connect to Evernote App on Mac and copy a picture to the note directly from web and afterwards open the same note through Windows Evernote App, I am given an option to annotate the image.

Maybe someone knows why Windows Evernote is not allowing for an user to annotate the image right away?

Thank you for any suggestions.

 

[Mike P 2,798]

As documented in the post below when yopu copy and paste an image into EN from the web, EN only pastes a link not the actual image. This has all sorts of implications like your issue of not being able to annotate the image but also if somebody changes the image on the web it will change your image too. Please vote up the post below.

 

 

 

 

[CCaesar 0]

Yes, but how come I am able to annotate SAME pictures when I paste it to EN through Mac Evernote App? 

And it's even more confusing that after pasting images through Mac - the options to annotate images appear in Windows EN app.

Seems like a really important issue here... Wondering if developers are informed about it.

[Mike P 2,798]

1 hour ago, CCaesar said:

Yes, but how come I am able to annotate SAME pictures when I paste it to EN through Mac Evernote App? 

And it's even more confusing that after pasting images through Mac - the options to annotate images appear in Windows EN app.

Seems like a really important issue here... Wondering if developers are informed about it.

I have no idea about how EN for mac works but I do know that if you paste the image into the legacy version it pastes the image, not a link, so you can then annotate it in the new windows version. If you can annotate it then it must be an actual image embeded in the note. If you can't it's a link. 

[lhb 66]

On 10/16/2020 at 11:52 AM, CCaesar said:

Yes, but how come I am able to annotate SAME pictures when I paste it to EN through Mac Evernote App? 

And it's even more confusing that after pasting images through Mac - the options to annotate images appear in Windows EN app.

Seems like a really important issue here... Wondering if developers are informed about it.

Maybe Evernote for MAC copy/pastes differently.

On Windows, I remember to have seen different behavior for copy/paste vs drag/drop. I didn't check that behavior in the latest version. It may depend on the image type, as I have notes that have both pictures as references (cannot annotate, also not available off-line, will disappear once original link disappears or changes) and pictures as embedded data (can annotate, available off-line).

Still considering automated options to detect and fight this potential data rot.

 

[lhb 66]

On 10/16/2020 at 10:43 AM, Mike P said:

As documented in the post below when yopu copy and paste an image into EN from the web, EN only pastes a link not the actual image. This has all sorts of implications like your issue of not being able to annotate the image but also if somebody changes the image on the web it will change your image too. Please vote up the post below.

Can't see the "post below", am getting this:

"Data Rot" in a message on potential "Data Rot"?

 

[PinkElephant 8,346]

One can paste a link, and one can  paste the real content, as a copy. It all depends on the user.

When using the web clipper it practically creates a dependent mirror of the original site. When the original page is lost, the mirror can get lost as well.

To really conserve a website ad it had been when viewed, the best way is IMHO to save it as a pdf.

But again: It is the user who needs to decide.

[Mike P 2,798]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

One can paste a link, and one can  paste the real content, as a copy. It all depends on the user.

I think the point is that if you use the web version you don't have a choice. If you copy an image from the web and paste it into a note in the web version it only pastes a link and not the actual image. It displays the image so you think it has been pasted but it can't be annotated and if the image is changed or deleted it will effect your note. This used to be the behaviour in early desktop versions of V10 (hence my original post) but that has now been corrected. The web version should just be brought into line with the desktop versions.

[lhb 66]

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

One can paste a link, and one can  paste the real content, as a copy. It all depends on the user.

When using the web clipper it practically creates a dependent mirror of the original site. When the original page is lost, the mirror can get lost as well.

To really conserve a website ad it had been when viewed, the best way is IMHO to save it as a pdf.

But again: It is the user who needs to decide.

• When copy/pasting an article with images from the browser to Evernote, I'm not given the choice whether to paste the real content or pate the link. It does not depend on me. It seems to depend on the client used, and on whether I used drag/drop. I follow this problem because usually it works, and I want to find a solution for the very few cases where it does not work.
• When using the web clipper, the images are attached to the note, not just referenced. I see them as note resources. Like the article with an image, I clipped this morning. Therefore, the article will be complete when the original site goes down. The image can be annotated.

• It was my experience that the normal behavior is to include the images into the note as attachments, rather than keep them as references.  Indeed, in this forum, I was told that this is the expected behavior, and I should contact support. See the thread in Missing image in note - General Technical Issues - Evernote User Forum

Again, I'm not given a choice, my experience as well as the supposedly expected behavior is to copy the image INTO the note.

Indeed, if the standard behavior is to just copy image links, which would result in 

1. The image cannot be annotated. There will be no menu entry for that. For an image to be able to be annotated, it needs to be part of the note. Note that questions such as "can't annotate my image" have been around in this forum and may be caused by the missing resource in the note.
2. The images will not be available off-line.
3. The image will not be processed by Evernote for character recognition and the like
4. There will be "data rot" that will hit you at some time in the future when the original site changes or goes off-line. Yes, creating your PDFs rather than just clipping (which according to you creates just references, not copies), copy/pasting or drag/dropping may be better, but also a lot more work, and you can't simplify notes. If creating PDFs and saving them.

 

 

[PinkElephant 8,346]

About pdf: It may not be the ideal solution, but it conserves what has been on a certain date when visiting the web site.

To get a simplified view, switch the browser to reader mode before creating the pdf. This works for most web sites.

[lhb 66]

17 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

To get a simplified view, switch the browser to reader mode before creating the pdf. This works for most web sites.

As a senior Evernote user with plenty, sometimes faced with questions about the future, let me complete your train of thought and suggest that these PDFs should be printed on paper and stacked on the desk.

For the slightly more forward looking also using the forum to solve problems, not just evading them --- there may be few old Evernote users that still have that spirit --- could I suggest that one could agree that the reasonable behavior of having an image in a Evernote note/document and showing as an image means that that image is IN the note as an attachment, not just as a reference to an image OUTSIDE the note. Same as the expected behavior in, say, MS Word or PDF. (I did not check the PDF specification....  the suggestion to print the PDFs on paper and stack them looks now even better.)

Pasting links and showing them as images, confusing users in myriad ways and exposing them to "data rot" or "Alzheimer at the tender age of 20" should be classified as a bug and fixed

Note that bugs in old clients, not just v10 web, have caused such such problems. Notes that contain such external images should be easy to find and fix, potentially with a search key like `resouce:image/png`, which I don't think currently exists.