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TechPerplexed last won the day on February 7

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  1. Agree with everyone here, the only one capable of convincing yourself to stay is you. If you feel you need convincing, it might be time for something else. I too was tired of waiting for Evernote development and made the leap to Joplin a few months ago. Never looked back... they keep on adding features and improvements almost weekly - and seem to add exactly the ones I want/need. That is not an endorsement to switch though, just my personal experience.
  2. Hmm, I thought I had left a reply the other day, but I don't see it anywhere now. Here's another attempt Thread drift: if you don't mind, then neither do I. This long thread is all over the road anyway, so let's go for it... we're all just socializing right? Joplin: I'm definitely not trying to sway people to other apps... but if you decide to switch to something else, don't look at me if that results in any loss of notes, time, peace of mind or hair. Just saying Recipes: my friend raves about an app named AnyList. He uses it to share shopping lists with his wife, and according to him you can clip recipes without all the "fluff" that so many sites seem to add ("my recipe was handed down from my great grandma and it was always the highlight of any church picnic," blah blah blah). No idea myself though because I personally prefer to use "one app for all", but it might be worth looking into for the recipe buffs around here Web clipping: In addition to the usual simplified, full page, selection, url and screenshot, Joplin offers one additional feature and that is "original html". I have tried it and it sure renders the page in the original format as close as, erm, the original format, but I'm not really sure how useful this is. For starters you can forget about editing anything, because we all know what a mess html/css is behind the scenes so good luck finding that blurb you want to edit. But worse than that, I believe that it takes the css and images from the original clipped site - so if ever that site disappears, so do your images and layout. I'd rather have an "uglier" (more basic) version of the page of which I know it'll still look the same 10 years down the road!
  3. Almost two months in and as promised, reporting back. Still very happy with Joplin - I am using it on Windows 10 and my Note 10+ (just upgraded from Note 4), and syncing through Dropbox. All without issues or glitches - so far. My gauge for trying new apps is how desperately I want to revert back to Evernote. With OneNote that took 3 minutes, Notion 1 day, Zoho a few days, etc. With Joplin, I haven't felt the urge to return to Evernote at all yet, which probably says it is truly an alternative that seems to tick all the boxes (for me!! as we discussed before, others may definitely have other needs). Things I enjoy very much: Almost one click export of my entire note collection (unlike Evernote where you need to select notebook by notebook unless you don't care about preserving the structure). Open source spirit in the community, which I personally enjoy more than the Evernote predominant culture of "it works for me, therefore you are wrong" (ok I exaggerate a little there, but... well.... not entirely off the mark either haha). The more I get used to Markdown, the more I'm enjoying it. I love the total freedom of making the note tow the line how I want it! Multiple level notebooks. Oh gosh how I love those... it gave me a whole new leash on organizing my collections. It works "just like Evernote" in many ways, and since Evernote is a great app, that means Joplin is great too Things I wish were better: Inline PDF and OCR... though apparently those are going to be worked on "someday", as of NOW Joplin doesn't offer them - and I still miss them (I believe I mention this in just about every post, heh). Although the app is very snappy on all my devices, there is no way you can quickly scroll through long notes in Android due to the "instant save" feature. There is no undo in Android. In combination with the instant save, that makes editing in Android a rather scary affair. Sure, you can revert back to an older version of the note, but still... not convenient! There is a limit of 10MB in attachments on Android. Although you can still store bigger attachments in the desktop and use them there, I can't open them on my phone. I haven't missed it yet, but... it's still an inconvenience the moment I DO need to view it. I wish it were possible to color code notes or sections... which would make Joplin a decidedly "happier" app to use. None of the above are deal breakers, so I guess I found my "forever-until-a-better-one-comes-out" note taking app. I might report back later this year, especially if things change (for the better or worse) AND will keep an eye on Evernote developments. Though in all truth, I can't see me going back to EN... but never say never!
  4. Thanks @PinkElephant Let's say "until we meet again" then. Just because I'm trading the seemingly sleeping elephant for a recently roaring mouse doesn't mean things are permanent. Or that I can't check in and report back some day. And everybody, thanks for the insights and critical notes (no pun intended) - it certainly helped with the decision making process.
  5. Eh, this is just a friendly discussion, so thanks for all that @Dave-in-Decatur I don't feel it's my "duty" to defend Joplin, so I fully respect your reservations about it without offering any counter arguments in return. What is important for one, is definitely not a priority for another and vice versa. Having my data safe is EXTREMELY important to me, so I definitely make sure I create regular backups as well as make sure it actually syncs, but personally I don't feel that Joplin is any less reliable than Evernote in that regard. Still, those are valid concerns so I felt (hope) that I left an honest pro/con list for both products so people can make up their mind. As for Evernote's improved editor - I shall believe it when I see it, and yes I will probably keep an eye on the (lack of?) developments in that regard
  6. Well, I made my decision. Without further ado, let me tell you who the winner is: Joplin. Yes, after more than twelve years of using Evernote (eight of which as a pro user), I have finally found the alternative I was looking for. This was not an easy choice, and hopefully my list of pros and cons may help others choose if Evernote is still the app they prefer, or if they feel (like I do) that it's getting too expensive and too long in the tooth, with no clear path to future improvements - other than vague promises. Evernote Pros: Established company, not likely to abandon the product altogether. No need to set up a sync service, everything is stored on Evernote servers. Apps look slightly more polished. Inline PDF and note thumbnails in the note list (visually more attractive, easier to find content by browsing). Due to Evernote's popularity, most other applications offer ENEX import. Cons: No significant innovation for several years now. Awful editor that hasn't noticeably improved in well over a decade (proof in point: this merged thread is from 2014 and the first page mentions the very basic editor that hasn't been improved upon since 2007 - it's 2020 in some areas now). Sudden price hikes with nothing visible in return. No encryption, employees and bots are able to view your content at will. Stale community without any meaningful company input. Dedicated ideas forum section of which exactly none have been implemented, despite some having thousands of votes/replies. Main 2019 innovations: logo went from green to white, price hike, repeat of 20xx-2018 promises of "doing better soon". What are those 250 employees busy with all day long? Joplin Pros: On par with the Evernote app which is more than a decade older and had hundreds more employees work on it. Actively maintained and supported, with continuous interacting between the developers and its lively community. FREE (donation based really). Rock solid performance, redundant failsafe measures for lost content. App available for Mac, Windows, iOS, Linux, Android, web. Unlimited nested notebooks/subnotebooks in addition to tags. Steadily improved and new features added since the initial release three years ago. The past year alone: note history, (dark) themes, note count, math equations, export to markdown/html/PDF, sidebar column resizing, full text search, external editor support, and a web clipper... with no indication of slowing down just yet (another beta with additional features just came out yesterday). Pipeline: automatic (incremental) backups, emailing of notes, note sharing, wysiwyg editor. Seamlessly switch between markdown or html, depending on the content. The developer(s) actually LISTEN to the users - and come back with clear answers (ranging from "no, this is not planned any time soon but feel free to request/create a plug-in" to "sure, great idea, keep an eye on this space"). Full control over your content, since it's 100% self hosted on your own cloud service of choice. End to end encryption, nobody has access to your content but you. ALL your data is stored by YOU, so even if the developer(s) stop with the project, no content is lost including the ability to sync. All notes including attachments are fully exportable in several formats, including markdown, html and PDF. No worries about being locked in! Open source, so it's possible to add the features you need/want with coding skills. Surprisingly, the web clipper is better than the Evernote one. Cons: Currently only one active core developer - if he falls away, the project might stall from further updates/improvements. The markdown editor with separate view feels a little "geeky". No merging of notes (other than copy/paste). No undo of editing on Android - yet (but devs are aware of it and looking for solutions). No attachments larger than 10MB supported on Android yet (but devs are actively seeking a solution). Final words Although I didn't plan to make my choice this soon, it felt right to start the new decade with a new product. So, after much consideration, I just cancelled my renewal to Evernote... which felt a bit final but what it really means is that I have eleven months left to change my mind Well, I am pretty sure won't happen (but if it does, I promise to report that here). If you don't hear from me again (collective sigh of relief), you can safely conclude that I found my "permanent forever app" in Joplin. I wish you guys all the best and who knows, till we meet again!
  7. Not by choice Still happy with Joplin - will post some additional insights in the coming weeks - and also my final decision whether I moved across or not, which at this point is not yet a given. I have given up on Notion though, since I found it sort of hard to make friends with the block based approach. I blame it on the simplicity of my brain
  8. "YOUR" single dev? Now, now, tsk tsk, let's not resort to that type of dialogue But seriously, you bring up an excellent point of course. I seem to recall that this is almost the single most asked question in this very forum... "what if Evernote goes belly up?" And as a regular, you also know the answer that is INVARIABLY given (and I paraphrase) "that is a non issue, because the data is portable". With Joplin, your data is equally exportable. Even then, I could choose not to move away and continue with the current version. The app is mine and even if the developer packs it in, no one will uninstall it from my computer. It just wouldn't be updated - unless (worst case) I fork the Github project and learn the ins and outs myself. Best case, someone who is a skilled programmer would pick up the pieces and further develop the product. The data is mine. Again, the developer disappearing won't make my notes vanish. They're still there - offline on my PC, offline on my Android AND online in Dropbox (encrypted). The only guarantee we DON'T have is further updates from that developer who won the lottery, but then again, we don't have the guarantee that Evernote will continue to develop either. If I were to be facetious, I could bring up the fact that Evernote has seemingly been stagnant for years (I still hate the editor), almost the opposite of innovation. Still, it's arguments like these that make folk think and decide what is best for them. As you may recall, it's the very reason that I instantly dismissed Zoho because my notes are NOT portable, nor offline. So thank you for bringing it up and forcing me to think
  9. When we got married first thing I did was kicked my husband out of the kitchen, so that is a non issue here All jokes aside, that is why I included the missing features that I personally am not interested in, but obviously for others such a thing would be a dealbreaker. To me, the biggest potential dealbreaker could be the missing visual clues (thumbnails, PDF preview). Still, my money is on that single Joplin dev adding the feature before Evernote adds any of the missing ones! 😁 Here is where Evernote is definitely the prettier one. Joplin: vs Evernote:
  10. Hahaha well to come back to what you said yesterday, about running shoes and lions at your heels, sometimes a little kitten can be dangerous too. I'm still toying with Joplin, and with a risk of sounding repetitive and boring, I find it absolutely incredible that one person has managed to create such a sound product. In terms of development time and resources the product should truly be just a kitten (or even mouse), yet it offers almost everything Evernote has. In random order: Notebooks and sub-notebooks (unlimited nesting with Joplin) Tags Desktop and mobile apps (Joplin offers Linux + terminal in addition to Windows/Mac) Device syncing (Joplin is self hosted in either Dropbox, OneDrive, NextCloud, WebDAV, etc) Web clipping Note importing Note history (basically unlimited revisions with Joplin) Attachments Note sorting Notifications/reminders Checklists Note searching Note exporting Rock solid performance Then Joplin adds some features that Evernote does NOT have: Markdown as well as html source formatting End to end encryption External note editor Free and open source, no paywall A forum and bug tracker platform, both in which the developer actively participates Of course there are a few things missing (and some of these I miss rather a lot): Note merging Import from folder Visual representation of note list (thumbnails) Inline PDF OCR of PDF, handwriting and scans (plus search) Trash can For completeness' sake, Evernote has these features which I personally have no interest in but are missing in Joplin (or so I believe): Emailing to note Sharing/collaborating Web client Document scanning Fully hosted by the company, no need to provide own cloud server AI content suggestions (I personally hate that, but...) Finally, though in awe with what he accomplished, it also scares me a little that it is a one person project. At least Evernote has a huge team and when one employee leaves, no one will notice. If the one Joplin dev falls away, the project stops dead turkey. Yes, I know someone can fork the source and continue to develop/support, but there are no guarantees that this will actually happen. And so ends 2019... with lots to contemplate and decide in the coming year
  11. In my own defence, I did not create the thread to point out to the world that Evernote has done me wrong. And the reason why I respectfully requested for the thread (MY thread, not this entire monstrosity) not to erupt in arguments was because I respect the fact that others may have a different viewpoint and all should be openly discussable (is that a word?) It just so happens that some necromancer moderator merged the thread with one entirely different one (and almost six years old at that) just because it had a similar sounding title. I guess that when people with more than 17,000 posts are automatically given those type of privileges, common sense rules no longer necessarily prevail. I have never participated in a forum before where resurrecting ancient dead threads wasn't frowned upon, let alone enforced. I cannot be held responsible for things people said before me in a thread I knew nothing about. That said, agree with you on almost every count
  12. Exactly! Plus you want to feel "good" about the product, the company and even (to a much lesser degree but also not entirely unimportant) the community it attracts. For years I felt good about Evernote. I gladly paid $45 a year, even though at that time I didn't need to because the free product offered everything I needed as a light user. It was only after they pulled several no-nos almost simultaneously that I lost the love, and with it the desire to stay loyal to a product I no longer believed in. Of course the worst offender being the very steep price hike without any apologies or improvements in return - but there was also this absolutely awful forum where you can't open your mouth with (I hope) constructive criticism without being blasted by the same few resident regulars who call your posts "boohoo" messages and other put downs. I read what you said above, @PinkElephant that you feel that Evernote is heading in the right direction and I desperately want to believe you - but what I SAW this past year is a new logo that looks exactly like the old one and another price hike. As I said above, it is hard to believe that one man could create a product (Joplin) that almost matches Evernote that is a decade older and had hundreds of developers... I just can't imagine why it takes so long to implement a few improvements everyone seems to be asking for. But then again it's refreshing to see posts like yours that offer an alternative viewpoint. and how knows in another 3 years I'll be posting here again having to eat my words about leaving Edit: merged with a topic from 2014? Seriously??? That is some crazy insane moderating right there... 🙄 But I guess it proves my point on the speed with which Evernote innovates its product that those ancient posts are still considered relevant today! 😛
  13. Yeah, the usual suspects are already posting the usual replies. No wonder people consider this a toxic environment (not referring to you, PinkElephant!) I AM discussing Evernote and its service/product. In fact a quick count tells me I actually mentioned the word "Evernote" 22 times in my initial post here. Also, I had placed the poster above me on ignore years ago, so how come their post is now showing? Ah well, never mind... I shall ignore them the way they can't ignore me from now on
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