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TechPerplexed

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Everything posted by TechPerplexed

  1. Yes, funny enough many used to be really weary of Electron (? I believe that's what the package you referred to is called) and look down on any software based of that. At first I was nervous moving to Joplin for that reason alone. Luckily Joplin has been behaving smooth as butter for me, and now Evernote (with an infinitely larger budget and user base) had moved to it as well. We're living in interesting times indeed 😅
  2. Yeah and every time I congratulate myself on my choice. Gotta have something to stay cheerful about 😁
  3. In truth I think it's much better to do your own homework and not rely on a company's forum to ask what competitive product their users recommend. That said, I left Evernote for Joplin 1.5 years ago and never looked back. I just visit this forum every now and then to watch the belly aching.
  4. I realize that this is not the Joplin forum, but too many clicks to clip a page? It takes exactly 3 clicks: 1) Joplin icon - 2) Clip "your choice" - 3) Confirm. How many clicks does it take for an Evernote clip? I mean certainly there are reasons why you should or shouldn't use Joplin as a note taking app, but I can hardly imagine that clippling would be a show stopper...
  5. I still read this forum every now and then but as you may remember I moved over to Joplin a little over a year ago. At the time I posted that in here and recently brought it up too, but at some point the mentioning of alternatives will stop of course. I'd be a proper troll if I kept pushing it every time someone asks for a solution. And what works for me may not be what works for them anyway. I would imagine that others feel the same - they said they weren't happy with the direction Evernote is going into, posted the alternative of their choice and left. At some point only the die hard and people who genuinely like the new version (possibly even drawn to it) are left over and neither will mention alternatives. So, I don't see your "conclusion" as proof of anything, just a logical result of human nature in general
  6. Yes but then you need something to exit TO. Hence the need for competing products, which thankfully exist in abundance today.
  7. Pragmatic is the way to be If you are happy with a product, stay. Once you are unhappy, go (if you can *). You are shown no loyalty from Evernote (or other companies for that matter), so no need to stay loyal yourself. *) It's the "if you can" that had me upset for a while, because I couldn't. Luckily nowadays one can, if one wishes. To me that made all the difference in the world
  8. I appreciate your experience, but that was not entirely the point I was trying to make... I think that a lot of people like myself would never even have considered Evernote if they hadn't appeared EVERYWHERE or if they hadn't thrown around free premium years like candy. I swallowed the hook and even after they upped the price to ridiculous heights I kept paying because there wasn't a viable alternative. Then again I agree with you 100% that this is no longer the case, I believe there are ample alternatives now to suit just about everyone's needs and wants. Only the truly loyal seem to stick it out with Evernote to the bitter end, and even in those ranks I see some discomfort with the new version v10. As you and others have been saying, only time will tell where this will be going... with free products like Joplin adding new and exciting features by the minute (today they announced their new experimental personal server and official plugin repository for example), it will be a hard sell for Evernote to attract new customers!
  9. Not to mention it was basically shoved down people's throats because it was preinstalled and unremovable on every Android phone I had back then. In fact the reason I had Premium until last month is because I factory reset my old Note 4 about two years ago and after installation received 120 points for signing in to Evernote, which turned out to be one additional year of Premium.
  10. I can't speak for Wanderling of course, but a few years ago Evernote decided to suddenly almost double the price of Premium, while simultaneously crippling the Basic free version (most notably confining it to a maximum number of devices). I think that might be the wrong turn that is being referred to. Whether that was truly a wrong turn is debatable, but it certainly was a irrevocable turning point for me. Up to then I had been tickled pink with Evernote and happy to pay Premium for many years (despite not really even needing all its features, but I wanted to show some support). But overnight I felt that I had landed between a rock and a hard place - I couldn't afford the new premium but also needed at least three devices. When I pointed that out in these forums (along with several other upset customers), we were told we were hysterical whiners, boo hoo posters, freeloaders, etc by the resident forum dwellers. There was almost total radio silence from the staff, except from one or two employees who basically informed us "tis what tis, lump it or leave". I think that if Evernote had grandfathered us in, or if they had introduced these changes more gradually, or if they had given some soothing reason why this was for our own good, or heck, if they had created a super great new version of Evernote that made the price hike palatable, I think all that "drama" back then could have been prevented. The point I'm trying to make though is that from that moment on, I vowed to find an alternative, a thought that until then hadn't even occurred to me. I actively tried to leave Evernote from that moment on, but it wasn't until early 2020 that I finally found that alternative (Joplin, in my case). I have a feeling that Evernote is not done making wrong turns, and this upgrade to v10 seems to prove it. I have no idea if that 2015 "fiasco" made many customers determined to flee back then, nor do I know if many today put their money where their mouth is. However, I'll say this: the competition has not sat still and nowadays there are many more alternatives to Evernote than back then.
  11. I did that as well for a while, because I wanted to make sure that Joplin was suitable for my needs before abandoning Evernote. Even then it was quite nerve wrecking still to delete all my old Evernote notes at last, I can tell you that! One of the game changing features of Joplin (to me) was the nested notebooks. Once I started to organize my notes that way, I knew there wouldn't ever be a way back... I tried tags in Evernote but it quickly turned out to be a hot mess in my case. I am a very hierarchical person apparently so the way that works in Joplin suits my needs perfectly. In Evernote I was always trying to juggle how many notebooks to place in how many stacks, and how many notes I could cram into as few notebooks as possible. In Joplin if a notebook gets too crowded or unruly, I can just divide the notes into into a few additional categories within that notebook, problem solved. I also really appreciate how easy it is to backup the entire Joplin database including the notebook hierarchy and then restore everything seamlessly with almost one single click. I am no longer frightened to lose my Joplin notes, with the weekly backup, local storage on two Windows machines and my Samsung Note 20. I recently upgraded from the Note 8 and it was as simple as installing the app and connecting to Dropbox - a few hours later all my notes were present. At first I missed a few Evernote features such as the PDF in-note display and the visually attractive note thumbnails, but I found that this in itself wasn't enough to keep me with Evernote in the end.
  12. My three monthly check in - probably the last though Yep, still very, very happy with Joplin after one year. A few weeks ago my Evernote premium subscription expired. Just before that happened I finally cleaned out all my notes (which were lagging behind now anyway). That also means I just missed the entire v10 "upgrade" and from the looks of it, I didn't miss much! So long everyone, perhaps we'll meet again some day - here or there
  13. No, they don't... but you can select how you want to download attachments (images, pdf, etc) - download all, download when you open the note or download manually. Which I realize is useless if you are a writer and you have 16G worth of written notes
  14. Well, in the 10 months since I started using Joplin they went from no wysiwyg editor to a rudimentary test one (which actually butchered one of my notes in the very early days, thank goodness for note history and a robust one click backup/restore feature in Joplin) to one that is currently still experimental (use at your own risk), but getting better by the day. Since my notes are kinda vital I decided to wait until the experimental label disappears, but it's there now and actively being developed. Which goes to show that Joplin accomplishes more in a few months than Evernote... ever. I have also heard good stories about Notion but personally I couldn't make friends with it - I tried it a few times but came running back to Evernote after only days each time. Same with OneNote, Zoho Notebooks, and a number of others that I don't even remember now. I would definitely not recommend to just move over to Joplin (or any other app), but test it for at least a month... if you still find it suits you better than Evernote you can move across. I found my true alternative with Joplin at last... I love the fact I control everything including the cloud storage/sync. If Joplin decides to perform an "Evernote 10" type of release today, I can stick with the version I use now indefinitely and no fears of them ever forcing an update or else (you can't use the old product any longer, you will lose your cloud sync unless you upgrade your version, etc). Of course not all is rosy: for example the Android app is not very good. It's very slow to edit large notes but my main computer is my desktop anyway, I just use my phone to consult notes and that works just fine. The initial sync is very slow too - it took several hours to get my 2GB worth of notes/attachments on all devices. It's especially slow if you use encryption. And the phone only syncs when you open the app, so if you have no connection and you need that one recent note that you created on your desktop before you opened the app on your phone, it won't be there. All in all it boils down to preference and need. I was so relieved to finally feel free from Evernote's "clutches" and their constant antics of not listening to the user base, not communicating, price hiking, feature crippling, promises of doing better we never actually see happen, etc, that I am willing to take Joplin, few warts and all. Wishing you luck with whatever you (plural, not just the one person I quoted haha) decide!
  15. I agree. I'm not a coder, but I have submitted a few ideas on their forum. They were all discussed seriously. Some had counter arguments why it wouldn't be feasible and that is perfectly fine, at least you know what is going on. With Evernote I struggled twelve years with the same lack of basic formatting features, and the biggest thrill was a change of their logo two years ago... From a green elephant to a white one.
  16. Sorry, I hardly visit this forum any longer... I missed the quote I don't think Joplin offers selective sync, though you can enable or disable syncing attachments (images, PDF, etc) automatically. I can't imagine anyone having 14gb of written notes (I know I don't) so for me, Joplin's sync is more than sufficient. That said, in the almost-a-year I have been using Joplin they have added no end of features such as the much appreciated WYSIWYG editor and a few others I don't personally use. They also engage with their userbase and actually add useful features on a very regular basis. I wouldn't be surprised if selective sync would be possible if it gets requested. In short, I'm still a very happy Joplin user and never looked back... not once. Now that my premium will expire coming December I will delete my Evernote notes because Joplin does everything I need and then some. Besides, my Evernote content is severely out of date by now. Side note: I fully agree though that picking a note app on the basis of what you HOPE they will offer some day is a bad idea, so if Joplin currently doesn't offer a feature you desperately need (and Evernote has it), you definitely need to stay with Evernote!
  17. Agree with everyone here, the only one capable of convincing yourself to stay is you. If you feel you need convincing, it might be time for something else. I too was tired of waiting for Evernote development and made the leap to Joplin a few months ago. Never looked back... they keep on adding features and improvements almost weekly - and seem to add exactly the ones I want/need. That is not an endorsement to switch though, just my personal experience.
  18. Hmm, I thought I had left a reply the other day, but I don't see it anywhere now. Here's another attempt Thread drift: if you don't mind, then neither do I. This long thread is all over the road anyway, so let's go for it... we're all just socializing right? Joplin: I'm definitely not trying to sway people to other apps... but if you decide to switch to something else, don't look at me if that results in any loss of notes, time, peace of mind or hair. Just saying Recipes: my friend raves about an app named AnyList. He uses it to share shopping lists with his wife, and according to him you can clip recipes without all the "fluff" that so many sites seem to add ("my recipe was handed down from my great grandma and it was always the highlight of any church picnic," blah blah blah). No idea myself though because I personally prefer to use "one app for all", but it might be worth looking into for the recipe buffs around here Web clipping: In addition to the usual simplified, full page, selection, url and screenshot, Joplin offers one additional feature and that is "original html". I have tried it and it sure renders the page in the original format as close as, erm, the original format, but I'm not really sure how useful this is. For starters you can forget about editing anything, because we all know what a mess html/css is behind the scenes so good luck finding that blurb you want to edit. But worse than that, I believe that it takes the css and images from the original clipped site - so if ever that site disappears, so do your images and layout. I'd rather have an "uglier" (more basic) version of the page of which I know it'll still look the same 10 years down the road!
  19. Almost two months in and as promised, reporting back. Still very happy with Joplin - I am using it on Windows 10 and my Note 10+ (just upgraded from Note 4), and syncing through Dropbox. All without issues or glitches - so far. My gauge for trying new apps is how desperately I want to revert back to Evernote. With OneNote that took 3 minutes, Notion 1 day, Zoho a few days, etc. With Joplin, I haven't felt the urge to return to Evernote at all yet, which probably says it is truly an alternative that seems to tick all the boxes (for me!! as we discussed before, others may definitely have other needs). Things I enjoy very much: Almost one click export of my entire note collection (unlike Evernote where you need to select notebook by notebook unless you don't care about preserving the structure). Open source spirit in the community, which I personally enjoy more than the Evernote predominant culture of "it works for me, therefore you are wrong" (ok I exaggerate a little there, but... well.... not entirely off the mark either haha). The more I get used to Markdown, the more I'm enjoying it. I love the total freedom of making the note tow the line how I want it! Multiple level notebooks. Oh gosh how I love those... it gave me a whole new leash on organizing my collections. It works "just like Evernote" in many ways, and since Evernote is a great app, that means Joplin is great too Things I wish were better: Inline PDF and OCR... though apparently those are going to be worked on "someday", as of NOW Joplin doesn't offer them - and I still miss them (I believe I mention this in just about every post, heh). Although the app is very snappy on all my devices, there is no way you can quickly scroll through long notes in Android due to the "instant save" feature. There is no undo in Android. In combination with the instant save, that makes editing in Android a rather scary affair. Sure, you can revert back to an older version of the note, but still... not convenient! There is a limit of 10MB in attachments on Android. Although you can still store bigger attachments in the desktop and use them there, I can't open them on my phone. I haven't missed it yet, but... it's still an inconvenience the moment I DO need to view it. I wish it were possible to color code notes or sections... which would make Joplin a decidedly "happier" app to use. None of the above are deal breakers, so I guess I found my "forever-until-a-better-one-comes-out" note taking app. I might report back later this year, especially if things change (for the better or worse) AND will keep an eye on Evernote developments. Though in all truth, I can't see me going back to EN... but never say never!
  20. Thanks @PinkElephant Let's say "until we meet again" then. Just because I'm trading the seemingly sleeping elephant for a recently roaring mouse doesn't mean things are permanent. Or that I can't check in and report back some day. And everybody, thanks for the insights and critical notes (no pun intended) - it certainly helped with the decision making process.
  21. Eh, this is just a friendly discussion, so thanks for all that @Dave-in-Decatur I don't feel it's my "duty" to defend Joplin, so I fully respect your reservations about it without offering any counter arguments in return. What is important for one, is definitely not a priority for another and vice versa. Having my data safe is EXTREMELY important to me, so I definitely make sure I create regular backups as well as make sure it actually syncs, but personally I don't feel that Joplin is any less reliable than Evernote in that regard. Still, those are valid concerns so I felt (hope) that I left an honest pro/con list for both products so people can make up their mind. As for Evernote's improved editor - I shall believe it when I see it, and yes I will probably keep an eye on the (lack of?) developments in that regard
  22. Well, I made my decision. Without further ado, let me tell you who the winner is: Joplin. Yes, after more than twelve years of using Evernote (eight of which as a pro user), I have finally found the alternative I was looking for. This was not an easy choice, and hopefully my list of pros and cons may help others choose if Evernote is still the app they prefer, or if they feel (like I do) that it's getting too expensive and too long in the tooth, with no clear path to future improvements - other than vague promises. Evernote Pros: Established company, not likely to abandon the product altogether. No need to set up a sync service, everything is stored on Evernote servers. Apps look slightly more polished. Inline PDF and note thumbnails in the note list (visually more attractive, easier to find content by browsing). Due to Evernote's popularity, most other applications offer ENEX import. Cons: No significant innovation for several years now. Awful editor that hasn't noticeably improved in well over a decade (proof in point: this merged thread is from 2014 and the first page mentions the very basic editor that hasn't been improved upon since 2007 - it's 2020 in some areas now). Sudden price hikes with nothing visible in return. No encryption, employees and bots are able to view your content at will. Stale community without any meaningful company input. Dedicated ideas forum section of which exactly none have been implemented, despite some having thousands of votes/replies. Main 2019 innovations: logo went from green to white, price hike, repeat of 20xx-2018 promises of "doing better soon". What are those 250 employees busy with all day long? Joplin Pros: On par with the Evernote app which is more than a decade older and had hundreds more employees work on it. Actively maintained and supported, with continuous interacting between the developers and its lively community. FREE (donation based really). Rock solid performance, redundant failsafe measures for lost content. App available for Mac, Windows, iOS, Linux, Android, web. Unlimited nested notebooks/subnotebooks in addition to tags. Steadily improved and new features added since the initial release three years ago. The past year alone: note history, (dark) themes, note count, math equations, export to markdown/html/PDF, sidebar column resizing, full text search, external editor support, and a web clipper... with no indication of slowing down just yet (another beta with additional features just came out yesterday). Pipeline: automatic (incremental) backups, emailing of notes, note sharing, wysiwyg editor. Seamlessly switch between markdown or html, depending on the content. The developer(s) actually LISTEN to the users - and come back with clear answers (ranging from "no, this is not planned any time soon but feel free to request/create a plug-in" to "sure, great idea, keep an eye on this space"). Full control over your content, since it's 100% self hosted on your own cloud service of choice. End to end encryption, nobody has access to your content but you. ALL your data is stored by YOU, so even if the developer(s) stop with the project, no content is lost including the ability to sync. All notes including attachments are fully exportable in several formats, including markdown, html and PDF. No worries about being locked in! Open source, so it's possible to add the features you need/want with coding skills. Surprisingly, the web clipper is better than the Evernote one. Cons: Currently only one active core developer - if he falls away, the project might stall from further updates/improvements. The markdown editor with separate view feels a little "geeky". No merging of notes (other than copy/paste). No undo of editing on Android - yet (but devs are aware of it and looking for solutions). No attachments larger than 10MB supported on Android yet (but devs are actively seeking a solution). Final words Although I didn't plan to make my choice this soon, it felt right to start the new decade with a new product. So, after much consideration, I just cancelled my renewal to Evernote... which felt a bit final but what it really means is that I have eleven months left to change my mind Well, I am pretty sure won't happen (but if it does, I promise to report that here). If you don't hear from me again (collective sigh of relief), you can safely conclude that I found my "permanent forever app" in Joplin. I wish you guys all the best and who knows, till we meet again!
  23. Not by choice Still happy with Joplin - will post some additional insights in the coming weeks - and also my final decision whether I moved across or not, which at this point is not yet a given. I have given up on Notion though, since I found it sort of hard to make friends with the block based approach. I blame it on the simplicity of my brain
  24. "YOUR" single dev? Now, now, tsk tsk, let's not resort to that type of dialogue But seriously, you bring up an excellent point of course. I seem to recall that this is almost the single most asked question in this very forum... "what if Evernote goes belly up?" And as a regular, you also know the answer that is INVARIABLY given (and I paraphrase) "that is a non issue, because the data is portable". With Joplin, your data is equally exportable. Even then, I could choose not to move away and continue with the current version. The app is mine and even if the developer packs it in, no one will uninstall it from my computer. It just wouldn't be updated - unless (worst case) I fork the Github project and learn the ins and outs myself. Best case, someone who is a skilled programmer would pick up the pieces and further develop the product. The data is mine. Again, the developer disappearing won't make my notes vanish. They're still there - offline on my PC, offline on my Android AND online in Dropbox (encrypted). The only guarantee we DON'T have is further updates from that developer who won the lottery, but then again, we don't have the guarantee that Evernote will continue to develop either. If I were to be facetious, I could bring up the fact that Evernote has seemingly been stagnant for years (I still hate the editor), almost the opposite of innovation. Still, it's arguments like these that make folk think and decide what is best for them. As you may recall, it's the very reason that I instantly dismissed Zoho because my notes are NOT portable, nor offline. So thank you for bringing it up and forcing me to think
  25. When we got married first thing I did was kicked my husband out of the kitchen, so that is a non issue here All jokes aside, that is why I included the missing features that I personally am not interested in, but obviously for others such a thing would be a dealbreaker. To me, the biggest potential dealbreaker could be the missing visual clues (thumbnails, PDF preview). Still, my money is on that single Joplin dev adding the feature before Evernote adds any of the missing ones! 😁 Here is where Evernote is definitely the prettier one. Joplin: vs Evernote:
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