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Evernote for iOS 7


gbarry

Idea

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If shareholders aren't happy with the rate of return, not even a complete pivot is out of the realm of possibility.

Evernote doesn't have shareholders.
For sure? I didn't say they were public BTW. But you don't get 225 million in funding without giving away part of the company in the form or shares, voting rights, and usually seats on the board of directors.

They have you by the er, short and curlies, and you move when they yank.

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If shareholders aren't happy with the rate of return, not even a complete pivot is out of the realm of possibility.

Evernote doesn't have shareholders. Evernote has been quite consistent (in my opinion) about its privacy policies, and I do not expect we will see any changes, especially in the direction of data mining.

Yes they do. All of those rounds of private funding aren't putting debt on the books. That is stock. They will go public or be sold. These investors are doing this for a return.

Evernote doesn't have stockholders until it goes public. Evernote is a startup that sells shares to investors. There is a big difference, in my opinion. I think the point here is that they have to answer to far fewer people right now and can afford to be more flexible (in some ways) than they will be after their IPO.

"We actually don't want to go public by the end of next year. We'd want to delay that (an IPO) by a few years so that we can extend the period where we're having fun," [Libin] said.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47513981

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That said, I can confirm that we will be looking at an option for Premium users to remove these sections in a near-term release.

Please register a vote to keep it as an option. I like it.

I just want the market to be a one liner like announcements, not fold down to permanently show a featured product, ideally with a visual queue to new content.

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Ah, not in Evernote.  On your ipad.  The multi-purpose Sleep/Wake/Off/On button.  Top right corner (portrait mode).

 

 

 

LOL...I didn't realize you were talking about a hard button and not a software button.  Definitely not convenient.  I'm going to jump in and side w/the folks pleading for an explicit "soft" sync button that isn't buried in settings.

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LOL...I didn't realize you were talking about a hard button and not a software button.  Definitely not convenient.  I'm going to jump in and side w/the folks pleading for an explicit "soft" sync button that isn't buried in settings.

1 second to trigger a resync.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7p1ore1s2rq3fp6/Force_manual_sync_in_Evernote.mov

Thanks for the video. Leaving the app and coming back works. It is true.

Would I ever be willing to leave the app with an unsynced note? No. Do I think it is ideal to have users leave the app to accomplish an action? No. Do I think this saves much time over tapping into the account settings? No. But, I guess that is just me.

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BTW, has their been a post from an Evernote rep about the rationale for burying the sync button in settings?  I might be able to understand the removal if syncing was more frequent, but as it this, the lack of a soft button to force a sync in aggravating.

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And still... Sync works without a control.  If you "need" one.  There are at least two hardware buttons, as mentioned that work on everywhere in EN.  Plus the software one in settings.  A UI control for sync isn't going to be everywhere.

Evernote developer must be one of the most thankless jobs.

 

"Get rid of the clutter!"  "Give us back the clutter!"

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And still... Sync works without a control.  If you "need" one.  There are at least two hardware buttons, as mentioned that work on everywhere in EN.  Plus the software one in settings.  A UI control for sync isn't going to be everywhere.

Evernote developer must be one of the most thankless jobs.

 

"Get rid of the clutter!"  "Give us back the clutter!"

 

There's always pull down to refresh.  No clutter there at all.  I'd be more than happy with that compromise.

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Thanks for the video. Leaving the app and coming back works. It is true.

Would I ever be willing to leave the app with an unsynced note? No. Do I think it is ideal to have users leave the app to accomplish an action? No. Do I think this saves much time over tapping into the account settings? No. But, I guess that is just me.

 

 

End users will be Evernote's downfall...

You're a smart guy Christopher, so let's try not to needlessly muddy things up.

Of course you wouldn't leave the app with an unsaved note.  Why?  Because hitting "SAVE" in a note is one of the things that, you know, SAVES the note.  And shockingly triggers a sync, of said note to the cloud.

But you know what else?  Let's say you don't hit save, but you just leave and come back.  Voila, even your unsaved note gets sync'd to the cloud.  Bringing focus back to Evernote always triggers a sync.

And if you didn't come back, in ios7, background sync would likely still save your unfinished unsaved note.

 

The point is, if sit back and stop demanding EN adapt to our stuck in time notion of how it's supposed to work, drop our preconceptions, and let how the app is actually working - inform our usage of the app...  We not only then see where there devs were going, but we stop swimming upstream.

 

10,000' context.

You bought an iphone/ipad

LIVE in that context or move to a device that better fits your limitations.

Apple has designed how their ecosystem is supposed to work.

They nudge developers in that direction.  Not following the stream is either a lot of work reinventing wheels or is painful (because advanced warning comes true, or maybe just the lack of being showcased by Apple).

One of those tennants is, don't put a control in place for something that doesn't need one.

Minimize the UI clutter.

If you can't live in that, you're perhaps better suited to other platforms.

 

When we watch what MOST users do with Evernote on iOS.

They come into it for short notes, or particular searches.

Coming into the app, in any manner, starts a sync.

No need for a sync button.

 

When they create a note.  Saving the note triggers a sync

No need for a sync button

 

When they create a note, and leave EN with unsaved changes before giving it a chance to sync...

Coming back to EN syncs that work.

 

By default in ios7, background sync is enabled.

Even when you left EN with unsaved changes, vulnerable to being lost if the app is force quit manually, or by the OS due to low memory, or by a power cycle.

Even then chances are your unsaved changes will sync safe and sound due to background sync.

 

The very nature of the user using the app in the fashion that most average users do, syncs happen in just the manner they need with just the frequency they need, being responsive to what they're doing.

 

The area I haven't probed is the idle sync frequency if you're just sitting there staring at the note list, waiting for something to sync in.

But lets remember that's not the typical EN ios user.  They're in and out, triggering a sync whenever they come back to look for something.

Checking email, twitter, whatever.  I use use 100+ of the 400+ apps on my phone semi daily.  Most EN users aren't typically going to waiting at a note list for something to sync in.

 

Presumably timed and background syncs, eventually bring in the bits those sitting there staring are waiting for.

Or you tap a couple times to trigger it.  With the button they gave you in settings.  Or the methods I posted.

Or here's two quicker ones.

Swipe the notification bar down and then back up, or the Control Center up from the bottom and then away.

Those too trigger a sync when focus is returned to EN.

 

EN for iOS is not a desktop version.  We need to quit pushing for it to be.

That's not to say it can't be your primary EN client.  It is for me.  I use webclipping far more on the desktop(s) than I do the EN client.

But I know it's not the desktop app, and don't expect it to function that way.

Again that's not to say I don't consider my iphone and ipad to be my primary devices, I most often do (with work laptop not having left the desk in 1.5 years).

But still, they get used like mobile devices, and the software is tuned to mobile usage patterns.

 

And sitting there staring a note list wishing there was a button you could push to hurry along a sync, isn't a typical mobile user use case.

Yet if that describes you, realize you may be firmly in the margins.

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Thanks for the video. Leaving the app and coming back works. It is true.

Would I ever be willing to leave the app with an unsynced note? No. Do I think it is ideal to have users leave the app to accomplish an action? No. Do I think this saves much time over tapping into the account settings? No. But, I guess that is just me.

 

End users will be Evernote's downfall...

You're a smart guy Christopher, so let's try not to needlessly muddy things up.

Of course you wouldn't leave the app with an unsaved note.  Why?  Because hitting "SAVE" in a note is one of the things that, you know, SAVES the note.  And shockingly triggers a sync, of said note to the cloud.

But you know what else?  Let's say you don't hit save, but you just leave and come back.  Voila, even your unsaved note gets sync'd to the cloud.  Bringing focus back to Evenote always triggers a sync.

 

The point is, if sit back and stop demanding EN adapt to our stuck in time notion of how it's supposed to work, drop our preconceptions, and let how the app is actually working - inform our usage of the app...  We not only then see where there devs were going, but we stop swimming upstream.

 

10,000' context.

You bought an iphone/ipad

LIVE in that context or move to a device that better fits your limitations.

Apple has designed how their ecosystem is supposed to work.

They nudge developers in that direction.  Not following the stream is either a lot of word reinventing wheels or is painful (because advanced warning comes true, or maybe just the lack of being showcased by Apple).

One of those tennants is, don't put a control in place for something that doesn't need one.

Minimize the UI clutter.

If you can't live in that, you're perhaps better suited to other platforms.

 

When we watch what MOST users do with Evernote iOS.

They come into it for short notes, or particular searches.

Coming into the app, in any manner, starts a sync.

No need for a sync button.

 

When they create a note.  Saving the note triggers a sync

No need for a sync button

 

When they create a note, and leave EN with unsaved changes before giving it a chance to sync...

Coming back to EN syncs that work.

 

By default in ios7, background sync is enabled.

Even when you left EN with unsaved changes, vulnerable to being lossed if the app is force quit manually, or by the OS due to low memory, or by a power cycle.

Even then chances are you unsaved changes will sync safe and sound due to background sync.

 

The very nature of the user using the app in the fashion that most average users do, syncs happen in just the manner they need with just the frequency they need, being responsive to what they're doing.

 

The area I haven't probed is the idle sync frequency if you're just sitting there staring at the note list, waiting for something to sync in.

But lets remember that's not the typical EN ios user.  They're in and out, triggering a sync whenever they come back to look for something.

Checking email, twitter, whatever.  I use use 100+ of the 400+ apps on my phone semi daily.  Most EN users aren't typically going to waiting at a note list for something to sync in.

 

Presumably timed and background syncs, eventually bring in the bits those sitting there staring are waiting for.

Or you tap a couple times to trigger it.  With the button they gave you in settings.  Or the methods I posted.

Or here's two quicker ones.

Swipe the notification bar down and then back up, or the Control Center up from the bottom and then away.

Those too trigger a sync when focus is returned to EN.

 

EN for iOS is not a desktop version.  We need to quit pushing for it to be.

That's not to say it can't be your primary EN client.  It is for me.  I use webclipping far more on the desktop(s) than I do the EN client.

But I know it's not the desktop app, and don't expect it to function that way.

I am not muddying things up here. I am asking for something quite simple and straightforward: I want a more convenient way to force a sync. It is already in the Evernote app. Why not enable us to pull down and trigger a sync? No clutter. No fuss. And, it is about as Apple-y as you can get. Even Apple's own Mail app has it.

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Indeed. I am not asking for clutter. It's pretty common on the high quality apps to have control over sync through an icon or the pull down. That's because you might want to sync before opening a note to make sure you have the most recent version, for example. The sync isn''t persistent, and things slip through the cracks. Why take away a tiny sync icon?

I'm not obsessed with getting the ability back or anything, but I'm not convinced that control over syncing = clutter. It certainly isn't if you add it back using lindend's suggestion.

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Yeah you are.

What point is there to saying, I'm not going to leave the app with an unsaved note?

 

A.  You don't care about syncs if you're working in the note.  FINISH the note.  It's modal.  You can't do anything with anything that may or may not sync into the note list in the background until you finish the note anyway.

B. If you're worried about losing the work, SAVE the note.  That triggers a Sync.  The world (post 7.0 mind you) is wonderful and harmonious.

C. You're chasing invisible boogey men to worry about risks to the note if you briefly leave EN.  You're bright enough to be aware that the state is frozen safe and sound, and the ms you come back, your work is automatically saved even before you start back in on it again.  And of the 4 sync trigger methods I offered, NONE of them actually have you leave Evernote.  None of them switch to another app.

 

(I'll also add that it's complete folly to plow so much content into a single note that you're worried about the lost time if it wasn't to get saved.  In my company you get metaphorically beaten with the idiot stick if you come and complain about an hours lost work in a Word document because you didn't progressively save through that hour.  Only then will I let them know the backup client saves even their open in progress documents every 15 minutes.)

 

It doesn't further the discussion because its specious.

There's no motivation to do the thing you're saying you wouldn't do.

So there's no point talking about it, and it has nothing to do with any of my points.

Worse, even if one DOES that thing.  Evernote still saves you, so it's illogical fear.

 

And NONE of this rabbit hole has anything to do with typical EN user experience (though I get it's a bee in the bonnet of half a dozen in this thread, but lets divide that by 9 million plus users, carry the 1, and... well look at that.  Looks like exactly zero % of diverting effort from the devs is due on the issue).

I'm simply showing you work-arounds, near zero effort mind you.  4 ways you don't even have to leave the page you're displaying in EN, to trigger a sync.  The index finger flexes a mere 30 degrees...

Until some day in the future, perhaps, actual sigificant user experience data shows that perhaps they need a manual sync gesture in the UI.

 

But I'll say that UI control was a crutch that likely is no longer needed.

EN on the desktop is a different beast.  It sits there running long periods, perhaps on a secondary monitor when you're using other apps, and short of a Galaxy S4 like camera watching where you're looking, I don't know how you solve "when" to sync other than timed (or some future IMAP IDLE like "push" feature).

 

But in the mobile single tasking world it's not hard to respond to user actions and know when to sync.

I think it's doing a pretty darn fine job.

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Yeah you are.

What point is there to saying, I'm not going to leave the app with an unsaved note?

 

A.  You don't care about syncs if you're working in the note.  Finish the NOTE.  It's modal.  You can't do anything with anything that may or may not sync into the note list in the background until you finish the note anyway.

B. If you're worried about losing the work, SAVE the note.  That triggers a Sync.  The world (post 7.0 mind you) is wonderful and harmonious.

C. You're chasing invisible boogey men to worry about risks to the note if you briefly leave EN.  You're bright enough to be aware that the state is frozen safe and sound, and the ms you come back, your work is automatically saved even before you start back in on it again.  And of the 4 sync trigger methods I offered, NONE of them actually have you leave Evernote.  None of them switch to another app.

 

It doesn't further the discussion because its specious.

There's no motivation to do the thing you're saying you wouldn't do.

So there's no point talking about it, and it has nothing to do with any of my points.

Worse, even if one DOES that thing.  Evernote still saves you, so it's illogical fear.

 

And NONE of this rabbit hole has anything to do with typical EN user experience (though I get it's a bee in the bonnet of half a dozen in this thread, but lets divide that by 9 million plus users, carry the 1, and... well look at that.  Looks like exactly zero % of diverting effort from the devs is due on the issue).

I'm simply showing you work-arounds, near zero effort mind you.  4 ways you don't even have to leave the page you're displaying in EN, to trigger a sync.  The index finger flexes a mere 30%...

Until some day in the future, perhaps, actual sigificant user experience data shows that perhaps they need a manual sync gesture in the UI.

 

But I'll say that UI control was a crutch that likely is no longer needed.

EN on the desktop is a different beast.  It sits there running long periods, perhaps on a secondary monitor when you're using other apps, and short of a Galaxy S4 like camera watching where you're looking, I don't know how you solve "when" to sync other than timed (or some future IMAP IDLE like "push" feature).

 

But on the mobile single tasking world it's not hard to respond to user actions and know when to sync.

I think it's doing a pretty darn fine job.

If it were safe and sound I wouldn't be losing data. For actual user data, please see my earlier posts. The best way I know of protecting myself against note conflicts and lost data is to take control of the sync. I've learned this through bitter experience. If swiping down to sync is so onerous and unnecessary in iOS 7, I wonder why Apple has it in their Mail app. The feature adds no more clutter to the UI. In fact, it would even remove it, because you wouldn't need the button in the settings. You can avoid swiping down if the feature bothers you. I think we will have to agree to disagree here. Thanks for talking this through with me.

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If shareholders aren't happy with the rate of return, not even a complete pivot is out of the realm of possibility.

Evernote doesn't have shareholders. Evernote has been quite consistent (in my opinion) about its privacy policies, and I do not expect we will see any changes, especially in the direction of data mining.

 

Yes they do. All of those rounds of private funding aren't putting debt on the books. That is stock. They will go public or be sold. These investors are doing this for a return.

 

Evernote doesn't have stockholders until it goes public. Evernote is a startup that sells shares to investors. There is a big difference, in my opinion. I think the point here is that they have to answer to far fewer people right now and can afford to be more flexible (in some ways) than they will be after their IPO.

"We actually don't want to go public by the end of next year. We'd want to delay that (an IPO) by a few years so that we can extend the period where we're having fun," [Libin] said.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47513981

 

 

GM, investors are shareholders. They all have stock, it just isn't publicly traded and registered with the SEC under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. They have warrants too, and some are common shareholders, and others preferred. I guarantee you it is a spiderweb of ownership, by shareholders.

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  • Level 5

Please quote where I said it was onerous? (and while we're at it, perhaps not quote all the paragraphs you aren't actually replying to)

I don't know why they didn't put a pull to sync like mail in the client. I'm agnostic on it.

I merely take my cues and presume they're confident that for the significant use case, it's not needed.

So I adapt to how the app is actually running and live in it.

For me and my use cases, it seems to bear out the devs intent.

It's in fact not needed by me.

I can "take control" with everything they've already put into the app.

Be wary of when you're a hammer, every problem looking like a nail.

Not every data issue needs a manual sync button.

Look at Apple's other apps. Or other icloud sync apps. How many of them have a sync button?

Lots just do it when they need it, in the background.

Look at Pages/Numbers/Keynote, reminders

No sync control at all. It's real-time and responsive to user activity.

For that matter, even Dropbox on my ipad, if it has a sync control, it's completely eluding me.

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My mistake. I was making a distinction between stockholders and shareholders (cwb used shareholders in his post, and I seem to have forgotten that somewhere). If you say there is no difference, I'll concede the point, as I am relatively ignorant about financial instruments.

My point was that Evernote is not as constrained now as it would be if it had regular stockholders. I suppose it also has a lot less capital as well, so that would be the tradeoff. Please correct me if I am wrong.

In this vein, I'm glad to see Evernote taking bold steps to expand the user base and improve their profitability. I want thgm to stick around. I can live with announcements ad markets. I certainly don't think a sync button would scare users or investors away. Maybe other users are less tolerant of ads and "clutter."

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Thanks for your continued work to improve. I like the overall look and feel of the newest version.

 

Couple notes on newest version in iOS7

  1. is typically slower than previous version and intermittently freezes..perhaps it's syncing in background and user can't see that?
  2. we need an easier way to manually sync..an icon on the main screen
  3. please add list view

EN user since 2008. 

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