Note created for last one hour emptied completely

[idcrisis 1]

Hi there, 

I'm using Evernote web client to connect. 

A note that I added information for the last one hour completely disappeared on me. Except for the subject, the entire note is empty. 

I have encountered such strange issues quite a few times over the years and it seems that the web client is a bit of an afterthought. 

Is it time to consider versioning of the notes?

I know it will take up a more space but one would not be at the whim of what is essentially an AI race condition where it looks like any number of semi autonomous AIs purporting to help type and support the PC in general could be involved in this. 

Also to confirm, I'm still on the penultimate version of Evernote web client because the current version, well, just doesn't perform to the mark when clicking on a note or conducting any activity at all. 

There is a serious concern as to where this may be going. 

Also why doesn't the developer team actually take a look at the .net for linux runtime environment and see if they can get something going. I'm told that it is one of the least of their concerns given the numbers but the Mono runtime is meant to be an offering and why shouldn't apps work on that?

And the HTML saved by Evernote will be the better for it ( by seeing how linux sees it ), because as it stands, RTF is more of a better term for it. 

I sincerely hope the best for Evernote, even though it has slowly been killed on the web client front simply due to the horrible runtime environment. 

You must be aware that an HTML component is a drag and drap component in Delphi and the code will work on Apple Mac, Linux, PC, iphone, Android, even servers with a little amount of effort. 

One simply needs to think of an Evernote Lite kind of setup written in Delphi and ask for AI to help you and you should be up and running with 101% of the functionality in no time. Maybe skip the Windows version so as not to confuse the users and use the Delphi version for everything client. Server is too difficult even for Delphi at the moment.

Kind regards

[Boot17 1,498]

The new Desktop apps are based on Electron and up until a couple of months ago, there was still an active beta with the Linux platform, but Bending Spoons has announced that they are indefinitely suspending the Linux beta and will be focusing more on the (new) web client as a trade-off to that. It looks to me like Bending Spoons is doubling down on the previous teams decision to leverage Electron for cross-platform compatibility and consistency -- for better or worse.

The penultimate web client that you are currently using is also not going to be receiving any more updates and I would guess will probably stop working altogether in the near future.

As for versioning of the notes -- that is already a feature in the new web app.

It might take some time to get used to, but I find the new web app to be very nice and functional and I love the consistent UI and UX across all the platforms now -- MacOS, iPadOS, iOS, Android, Windows, Web vs what was there before.

[idcrisis 1]

25 minutes ago, Boot17 said:

It might take some time to get used to, but I find the new web app to be very nice and functional and I love the consistent UI and UX across all the platforms now -- MacOS, iPadOS, iOS, Android, Windows, Web vs what was there before.

That sounds unfortunate. I really have to draw your attention at least to clicking on a note in the latest version of the web client and seeing how much time the note comes up in. In the penultimate version it's almost immediate, like an app. In the latest version, it can be a second, or two or three.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,992]

1 hour ago, idcrisis said:

2 hours ago, Boot17 said:

It might take some time to get used to, but I find the new web app to be very nice and functional and I love the consistent UI and UX across all the platforms now -- MacOS, iPadOS, iOS, Android, Windows, Web vs what was there before.

That sounds unfortunate. I really have to draw your attention at least to clicking on a note in the latest version of the web client and seeing how much time the note comes up in. In the penultimate version it's almost immediate, like an app. In the latest version, it can be a second, or two or three.

To your actual problem, did you check the Note History to see if earlier versions of what you wrote were available?

Beyond that, I'm struggling a bit to understand the issues here. I just went to the Notes list in the latest Web client, running in Opera on a Windows 7 desktop computer, and clicked on several random notes. It took between instant and a second and a half for them to appear. I expect experience to differ on anything Web-based, of course, but that's what I'm seeing.

Are you saying, in the quote above, that it sounds unfortunate to have a consistent UI and UX across multiple platforms? I may not be bright enough to follow that without some further explanation, please. Likewise for using a non-current version of the Evernote Web client in a browser (which one?), maybe in Linux, and expecting perfection functioning ... I'm definitely not bright enough to get that.

3 hours ago, idcrisis said:

I know it will take up a more space but one would not be at the whim of what is essentially an AI race condition where it looks like any number of semi autonomous AIs purporting to help type and support the PC in general could be involved in this.

Again, a little help, please. Are you saying that Evernote's Web client uses "any number of semi autonomous AIs"? Is there evidence for that? Thanks for any clarifications on that you can offer.

[idcrisis 1]

44 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

To your actual problem, did you check the Note History to see if earlier versions of what you wrote were available?

....

Again, a little help, please. Are you saying that Evernote's Web client uses "any number of semi autonomous AIs"? Is there evidence for that? Thanks for any clarifications on that you can offer.

It seems Notes versioning is a premium feature. So that note is lost.

Yes, I have observed various such interventions that occur usually in the name of security, some web service going down or trying to parse a URL in the note for smarts. Most of them result in a 'Note was/cannot be saved', sometimes loss of data. Yes, I have actually seen the cursor jump around often I guess trying to parse the HTML and the like. It's not in your face but there are some smarts going on at least in the name of security and parsing HTML.

I tried switching ( now ) to the latest, it's taking anywhere between 2-6 seconds just to see the note ( in the right pane ) after clicking on the note header ( in the left pane ).

The editor has to have a way of reconciling the offline content with the online content if there is a network switch or the like.

I'm sorry, the latest version is showing the same problem it always did. This seems like a dead end, pursuing this framework. Do note, that this problem has been going on for the last 2 years or so. It is clear that the .NET framework only works on Windows and is an outright liability on other platforms.

Switching to penultimate version. It doesn't have the timing issues ( where it is trying to find a note forever ) and has worked fairly well for months till this issue today.

Delphi is not a was, it's just a component in Delphi, that HTML element. Please do consider it. It's a sorry sight to see such potential going to waste. One can even think of a 'Save' button ( while the auto save works too and while the offline content is saved in the browser cache and is reconciled without issues if there are network issues ). 

I don't know what cross platform was mentioned by Boot17 and what is meant by consistent UI and UX. Delphi is native. There are no runtime issues. One should use async. And cross platform. 

I'm not too sure what this platform means by 'OnContentEdit' or 'OnTouch' events, but it seems to be doing too much ( as in the movements are like thick and sticky as if hundreds of such events are being triggered ) for the auto save feature which is not necessary. 

And it's a known fact that there simply is nothing that's WYSIWYG apart from Delphi. Yes, just drag and drop components.

I'm told Evernote is a listed ( or similar ) company. They should not be stuck because of a .NET framework that has a stated objective of not allowing other operating systems to work. 

[gazumped 11,830]

30 minutes ago, idcrisis said:

And it's a known fact that there simply is nothing that's WYSIWYG apart from Delphi. Yes, just drag and drop components.

Hi.  AFAIK Delphi has nothing to do with Evernote.  As with @Dave-in-Decatur I get new notes opening within 0-1 seconds which seems as quick as anyone should expect. 

Your original post related to lost content in the web client,  which is an issue that can apply to web-based apps kept open for a long time - you mentioned working for an hour on one note.  Given that web connections are sometimes "temperamental",  it may be best to work on such content 'offline' - i.e. in a different app like a word processor - to be copied and pasted into Evernote in one operation when completed.

You were also suggesting in your post that you were using both the Legacy version and a Linux connection which are so very unsupported and out of date that I don't have a way to express how unlikely it is that Evernote would be able to assist you with any issues.

We're mainly other users here in the Forums.  If you wish to make any points to Evernote,  please try the Support or Feedback contacts.

[PinkElephant 8,395]

I don't understand all the to and fro about "penultimate version of Evernote web client".

Penultimate is a stand alone app from EN for iOS only - has nothing to do with the web client. It is quite outdated and I think not supported any more, although you still find it on the iOS AppStore.

[Boot17 1,498]

Penultimate, the product, got the name from penultimate, the word -- meaning "second to the last one".

[PinkElephant 8,395]

I think it rather got it from the Pen it tried to sell - it was the "ultimate" crapp.

There is a help article about it in the EN help database - "Jot Script-Pen for Evernote". They are very enthusiastic about it, all the latest technology employed. Imagine, it requires iOS 6.0 ....

[Boot17 1,498]

Man. There is so much to unpack and unravel and uncross wires in this thread (penultimate aside) for such an innocent title as "Note created for last one hour emptied completely". 🤣

Bottom line, upgrade to the latest version of the web app. Fin.

[idcrisis 1]

I see that Evernote, the company is now Bending Spoons. Which is great as they are located globally and can probably experience what it is like for users located where the data centre isn't.

Apart from what has already been discussed, one could do with an async api ( and yes, the beginnings of a set of third party or developer community maintained clients ) or some use of webassembly for the offline online content reconciliation. Yes, one may even chose to simply disable the ability for multiple clients to connect if they feel that they'll mostly be using one location to connect and the entire 'editing same note from multiple locations' use case ( and resultant ecosystem complications ) can be avoided. Or even locks on a note granularity from a location.

And yes, an option to disable auto save and keep the note well saved in offline and online draft stage before saving wouldn't go amiss. After all that HTML is being displayed on the internet if the note is shared, so a draft makes sense.

And for my pet peeve, Delphi, what is the average time it takes you to take out your phone and make a quick note? Meant to be bread and butter for note taking apps. So another appeal for a Matrix like ecosystem for Evernote.

Lastly fonts and images are not an afterthought, do refer to: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_(web_browser)

for aliased fonts and dithered upscaled image display. So that the same content is displayed better. HTML is very important. Javascript is less so ( and causes more difficulty than good ) for what should be most web pages but certainly for HTML content such as this ( which most certainly doesn't save any Javascript ).

And even more lastly, the Wikipedia editor model isn't too bad. Neither is LibreOffice, create wonderful docs and 'Save to Evernote' ( should have the ability to keep editing the content in LibreOffice ).

And very very lastly, RTF is not so bad, with bold italic fonts etc and adding images. One can even think of quick notes in RTF format. Yes, the same 'take your phone out and make a quick note' use case. That would mean that the notes are an actual file-system, like RTF, HTML, MHT/MHTML/EML where tags become a feature of the file-system because that is a good thing going. 

Cheers. 

[PinkElephant 8,395]

Don’t want to prolong a long posting. Just want to mention that the „inventor“ of RTF (Microsoft) deprecated the format in 2008. 

EN launched the current service in 2008. It uses a flavor of HTML, a much more modern format than RTF.

The idea of using RTF is IMHO quite off the grid - RTF was developed to exchange text files with some basic formatting between applications running under MS-DOS and the first Windows apps.

[Jon/t 1,456]

Quick other points. All the Evernote clients use async processes to communicate data to the server. Hardly any new page loads. I also believe all clients use WebAssembly and SQLite databases locally. There is also full real time editing where multiple folk can edit the same note without locking.

If notes are taking 2 - 6 seconds to appear then it could be they are being converted from the old legacy format to the new version 10 format. This can take a moment depending on the size of the note. Once converted if you stick with version 10 notes should open instantly.

If you go back and forth from legacy to version 10 then notes need to be converted to the old/new format each time so try and stick with version 10 if you can for the best experience.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,992]

23 hours ago, idcrisis said:

It seems Notes versioning is a premium feature. So that note is lost.

Just on this particular point, yest, Note History access is a subscription feature. However, history is maintained on all notes, even in free accounts. It is possible to subscribe for just one month in order to access the history, then return to Free.

[RadDadBrad 1]

I'm a big note taker and I've been a user since 2009.  After years and years, I eventually had to do my note taking elsewhere when Evernote became unreliable.  I recently heard there were big changes being made and decided to give Evernote another chance. 

I've worked long and hard on several notes, only to find them empty shortly thereafter.  The note is still there, titled correctly, but missing content or most often no content at all.  I use Evernote on my phone (ios), laptop (mac), and desktop (mac). 

I've had it happen to notes without any tasks.  I've had it happen when only entering the contents on one device.  I've had it happen after continually clicking the checkmark in upper left that would seem to save the note and take you back to the main menu.  Is there no autosave or way to force autosave my note contents?  I'm on the latest version of everything.  I've uninstalled and reinstalled. 

I keep reading experts say they haven't seen it happen often, but I see all kinds of users report the same problem.  I keep reading exports recommend making a support ticket, but every time I do, they give canned responses to check the trash, log-out/log-in, uninstall/reinstall, check note history, etc.  I've done all of this with no result. I've tried to go back in the note history only to see that the only version is the empty version.  

I really want to continue to use Evernote but if it's unreliable and going to lose my notes it's a waste of effort.  There's no ever in Evernote.  What can be done?  Is there a solution I'm missing?  

[idcrisis 1]

Just happened to me for another note. The undo feature has to be a cloud based feature. Otherwise lots of work can get lost.

[gazumped 11,830]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:22 PM, RadDadBrad said:

What can be done?  Is there a solution I'm missing?  

6 hours ago, idcrisis said:

The undo feature has to be a cloud based feature.

Hmmn.  Evernote has a built-in Note History so that subscribers can rewind a note to any stage in its life at any time.  'Lost' content - as long as it synced -  doesn't happen. 

If you're concerned with typing new content into a web page of any kind (including Evernote notes),  that's an Internet issue.  There are even browser extensions to remember what you typed and re-post it if it gets lost.  And if your network connection isn't great you can create a post in an offline word-processor and simply copy and paste the completed text (with or without the attached file) into a note.

[idcrisis 1]

41 minutes ago, gazumped said:

There are even browser extensions to remember what you typed and re-post it if it gets lost.

Do you have details of this browser extension? 

Even though the notes that have disappeared were days old and well synced, I will give that a try.

[RadDadBrad 1]

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

Hmmn.  Evernote has a built-in Note History so that subscribers can rewind a note to any stage in its life at any time.  'Lost' content - as long as it synced -  doesn't happen. 

If you're concerned with typing new content into a web page of any kind (including Evernote notes),  that's an Internet issue.  There are even browser extensions to remember what you typed and re-post it if it gets lost.  And if your network connection isn't great you can create a post in an offline word-processor and simply copy and paste the completed text (with or without the attached file) into a note.

The problem is that there was no note history the next day, despite going in and out of the note multiple times and saving multiple times.  Is there a way to force it to sync other than the the checkmark on mobile?  Do I really have to use the web client to make sure it keeps my notes? 

Also, I'm certain it's not an connection/internet issue.  I have gigabit service at the home and at the office.  I don't have any connection problems anytime with any app.

I don't know what else I can do.  Losing content like this is unacceptable to me.  It's happened about 5x in the last two weeks, sometimes on small notes and other times on large notes.  Have lost all confidence.  Thinking the service should be call MaybeNote.  If it happens even one more time, I've gotta go find another solution.   

[gazumped 11,830]

2 hours ago, idcrisis said:

Do you have details of this browser extension? 

Even though the notes that have disappeared were days old and well synced, I will give that a try.

If the notes are gone,  then neither of these options will being them back.  If you lose content from an existing note that has been around for 12 hours or more,  Note History should get something back for you.  If you are actively typing into a web page and lose the content as you type then there are several extensions called variations on 'Autofill' that will remember the last information you typed and refill a text box if it is lost.  ('Undo' on your device may also be helpful if a wrong keypress deletes content).

47 minutes ago, RadDadBrad said:

Is there a way to force it to sync other than the the checkmark on mobile?

Evernote backs up its note data "several times per day",  so it's not enough "just" to sync your content - it has to be on the server for a period of hours to be processed.  Sync is "real time" these days anyway.  IMHO the Web client is not the most reliable way to save notes - the installed app syncing & saving locally is better,  mobile and web less so,  because of their more remote connection to the network.

Whether or not your issues continue it's worth contacting Support - they won't be quick,  but they can investigate data loss far more effectively and hopefully identify and fix the issue.

[idcrisis 1]

5 hours ago, gazumped said:

there are several extensions called variations on 'Autofill' that will remember the last information you typed and refill a text box if it is lost.  ('Undo' on your device may also be helpful if a wrong keypress deletes content).

I'm trying this one: 

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autofill/nlmmgnhgdeffjkdckmikfpnddkbbfkkk

Had to enable an option called: 

Back up text fields larger than:   30 chars

It seems to be working ( in it's manner but certainly not ideal ). It saves the entire body of the text if larger than 30 chars and one can see it in the plugin.

Even then, the undo really feature needs to be in the cloud. Maybe Evernote can think of a feature called 'delete based undo only cloud' which stores deletes ( that too multiple deletes as one undo ). 

[gazumped 11,830]

4 hours ago, idcrisis said:

'delete based undo only cloud'

I've also used "Typio Form Recovery".  The problem with browser-based recoveries,  is that content may not get to Evernote at all.  If there's a problem with the system / browser / connection that stops characters being sent out across the network and lost from whatever field they were typed in,  a third-party utility sitting between keyboard and screen has to have captured everything that was being input,  and be able to replay it as needed.

[idcrisis 1]

Cannot use either or any such plugin. Most don't deterministically save anything on Evernote. Removing. 

Returning to the entire keep appealing to Evernote to make it more robust. More first principles HTML editor it has to be. Web client is currently unusable for the last two years ( for the latest version ). 

Sincere appeal for Webassembly for offline content and delete based cloud undo.

[PinkElephant 8,395]

The Web Client works smoothly for me, both private and on a corporate network.

If you are not sure about the connection, the best method to reduce the risk is to leave the note from time to time, and switch to another. Coming back to the note creates a refresh: You see what has been saved, and you work on a fresh download, not on a cached version.

That’s best practice on browser based applications.