DVORAK keyboard text shortcuts do not all work

[razamataz 5]

There has been a long standing issue I have experienced as a DVORAK user with keyboard shortcuts not working.  

This has been mostly remedied; however; all text formatting shortcuts (apart from Bold) do not work with the DVORAK layout. It would be good to get Italic and Underline working (at least).

I have tested and reverted to QUERTY and have confirmed they work with QUERTY layout. 

I know we are a small user subset, but we are very efficient, and this has been ongoing ever since the new version was in beta.  Please fix it. 

Can anyone else confirm this?

[Boot17 1,471]

I am not schooled in the ways of DVORAK use (so please pardon my ignorance of what may be a dumb question), but it sounds to me like you might be using some software to map a QWERTY keyboard to a DVORAK-based layout? Or are you using an actual DVORAK hardware keyboard?

[PinkElephant 8,178]

DVORAK is not even a small subset of users, it is a practically non existent percentage.

Personally I doubt it will ever be implemented - and personally I am convinced adding that extra loops just adds complexity and bugs for all, only to please a few. There is nothing to be fixed, because it is no supported feature. 

Of course you can be of a different opinion. To reach out for EN PM, you can use the feedback function build into the clients.

[razamataz 5]

You may be right. 

If it is happening with DVORAK, it is likely happening with other (non standard key bindings).  

I do find it interesting that Bold short cut and other short cuts work (Cntrl, Shift + l - for copying a link).  To me it smells a bit like regression wasn't completed thoroughly. 

Anyway, thanks for the reply.  I'll drop it into the feedback section and hopefully...it'll creep up the backlog.  

 

[razamataz 5]

@Boot17 

I am using the standard MS keyboard.  So it is not a hardware keyboard, its like changing a language in MS. 

 

 

[Boot17 1,471]

From doing a little reading this morning, it sounds like most DVORAK typists use a physical QWERTY keyboard with the DVORAK mapping (for lots of reasons), so it sounds like switching to a physical DVORAK keyboard is probably a non starter for most -- but I'm guessing that would probably fix the issue.

The reason for it is probably something related to this: https://github.com/Automattic/simplenote-electron/issues/2091, but that's just a wild guess.

I think it's good to post and comment and ask for feedback like that in this forum. Maybe others with DVORAK will see it and comment too.

Are you able to submit a support ticket for it? Like PinkElephant says, it's probably going to be way down on their priority list because of user base size that experience that issue, but they might be able to look at it at some point.

[Doengels 1]

On 6/9/2022 at 8:39 PM, razamataz said:

There has been a long standing issue I have experienced as a DVORAK user with keyboard shortcuts not working.  

This has been mostly remedied; however; all text formatting shortcuts (apart from Bold) do not work with the DVORAK layout. It would be good to get Italic and Underline working (at least).

I have tested and reverted to QUERTY and have confirmed they work with QUERTY layout. 

I know we are a small user subset, but we are very efficient, and this has been ongoing ever since the new version was in beta.  Please fix it. 

Can anyone else confirm this?

I'm having the same issue, also using Dvorak keyboard. Yes, keys are re-mapped, but shouldn't Ctrl+i still = Ctrl+i to the program? If every other text editor I use can do it, I don't understand why Evernote can't get this working.

[PinkElephant 8,178]

There are 2 options:

1. Either the problem is with the Electron framework. In this case EN needs to wait for Electron to add the keyboard support. Since  Electron handles the OS interaction, and other Electron apps seem affected as well, this is the plausible reason.
2. Or they simply have it on their backlog, but probably without priority. 

Since the percentage of users for this type of keyboard Lay-out is probably very small (talking about a percentage is likely already exaggerating, it would mean 1 out of 100 users), I personally don’t expect this issue to be bumped up. This is my gut feeling, no inside knowledge involved.

As a comparison we are talking about hundreds of millions of potenzial users in the „Right to Left“ community. The issue is open since long as well.

[CamBee 7]

On 6/10/2022 at 7:44 AM, Boot17 said:

I am not schooled in the ways of DVORAK use (so please pardon my ignorance of what may be a dumb question), but it sounds to me like you might be using some software to map a QWERTY keyboard to a DVORAK-based layout? Or are you using an actual DVORAK hardware keyboard?

The OS provides keyboard options and internally remaps them.  This is supported for different languages, different countries, etc.  DVORAK is the ORIGINAL type-writer configuration of key orientation and substantially more efficient.  The QWERTY key orientation is the MOST INEFFICIENT mapping designed expressly to slow down typers so that the mechanical keys wouldn't all get stuck when a fast typist was typing.  

With the advent of the electronic typewriters and computers, this limitation is no longer needed.

Dvorak is a system provided keyboard mapping that is common in all OS's in common use today.

 

However, the real issues is that the development of keyboard mappings should not be hard-coded, but rather should be an expression of the OS key mapping, obviously to support all languages, and keyboard mappings...so the lack of support of OS Keyboard mappings suggests hard-coding of the keystrokes.  which is 'interesting'.

[PinkElephant 8,178]

Let us say: As many ideas created by mental titans it is hard to tell if DVORAKs time is long over (as you say, mechanical typewriters) or still waiting to come. What can be seriously said it that in the here and now it has a small but vocational followership.

So I will praise the concept here with all my poetical esteem  - and voice my doubt that a general note taking software needs to go down this specific rabbit hole.

The treatment of keyboards is an issue of the OS. And it is pretty standard that not every keyboard shortcut of an app will be soft coded and editable.

[CamBee 7]

On 6/16/2022 at 6:40 AM, Boot17 said:

From doing a little reading this morning, it sounds like most DVORAK typists use a physical QWERTY keyboard with the DVORAK mapping (for lots of reasons), so it sounds like switching to a physical DVORAK keyboard is probably a non starter for most -- but I'm guessing that would probably fix the issue.

The reason for it is probably something related to this: https://github.com/Automattic/simplenote-electron/issues/2091, but that's just a wild guess.

I think it's good to post and comment and ask for feedback like that in this forum. Maybe others with DVORAK will see it and comment too.

Are you able to submit a support ticket for it? Like PinkElephant says, it's probably going to be way down on their priority list because of user base size that experience that issue, but they might be able to look at it at some point.

On computers, there is not really such a thing as a QWERTY keyboard.  Your key mappings are all OS interpreted <default>.  The underlying mapping of a binary value is interpreted by the OS.  While there is a language symbol on the keyboard for your convenience, the OS does not see the value.  That is why you can use control characters and symbols on your keyboard - because it is all 'abstracted' to binary values.  So if the qwerty representation of an 'F' is under the left hand forefinger, but the DVORAK 'F' is where the QWERTY 'Y' would be, the OS interprets the physical binary into the resulting letter value.  The application is a consumer of the OS interpretation...which is why this lack of support is odd.  Because this issue suggests that the application bypasses the OS input management system...

From an application development standpoint, you can use the input management system of the OS or you can choose to intercept that input yourself.  It would Make little sense (imo) to intercept those values manually if you were intending to support more than 1 keyboard 'abstract' layout.  ie, the US-QWERTY keyboard is only one of many, and that is great if you only intend to support 1 US-centric English keyboard only.  But for a product and business that likely wants consumption in more than 1 country, it would make much better sense to leverage the OS mappings and only program to the exceptions of new language supported keyboards or non-conformant key mappings.  With this approach the product will natively support multi-lingual multi-national keyboard mappings with minimal exceptions.  otherwise every language or mapping supported would require a hard-coding for each one to be supported, which would just be silly.

Of course, I could be missing something.  Evernote is a quality product and I'm sure there is a reason for the decisions made on keyboard mappings.  Just be aware that at an OS level, the QWERTY and DVORAK mappings are the same from an application point of view, unless the application is bypassing the OS input management system to interpret the keystrokes hard-coded assuming QWERTY is the intended keyboard.

as I understand it.

[CamBee 7]

10 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Let us say: As many ideas created by mental titans it is hard to tell if DVORAKs time is long over (as you say, mechanical typewriters) or still waiting to come. What can be seriously said it that in the here and now it has a small but vocational followership.

So I will praise the concept here with all my poetical esteem  - and voice my doubt that a general note taking software needs to go down this specific rabbit hole.

The treatment of keyboards is an issue of the OS. And it is pretty standard that not every keyboard shortcut of an app will be soft coded and editable.

Actually, the use of DVORAK was dead until the computer.  The average typing speed efficiency gained by DVORAK over QWERTY is about 80%.  Would you like to double your typing speed?

The audience of Dvorak users is growing, but not really the issue.

The question at hand is that the treatment of keyboards is natively handled at the OS level unless the application bypasses that feature to try to manually (hard-coded) interpret the keyboard.

If the OS input management system was used, DVORAK and QWERTY would not be different to the application as both are just binary mappings of the same keyboard to actual letter abstractions...using the OS would result in both being seen the same at the application level...hence no custom code would be required at all.

The fact that DVORAK isn't mapping fully suggests the application bypasses the OS input management altogether.  

anyway, is a minor nit, but as a Tech Engineer, this is a bit of a head-scratcher.

[gazumped 11,703]

Before this argument gets more theoretical,  can I point out that this is a (mainly) user-supported Forum,  and few of us will have any idea where in the Evernote / Electron / OS environment any key mapping /  conversions get handled.  If you need help on this - contact Support.  They may (or may not) be able to help.  If Evernote doesn't work for you - there nay be other software out there that will...

[CamBee 7]

On 6/14/2022 at 4:32 AM, razamataz said:

You may be right. 

If it is happening with DVORAK, it is likely happening with other (non standard key bindings).  

I do find it interesting that Bold short cut and other short cuts work (Cntrl, Shift + l - for copying a link).  To me it smells a bit like regression wasn't completed thoroughly. 

Anyway, thanks for the reply.  I'll drop it into the feedback section and hopefully...it'll creep up the backlog.  

 

Razamataz

100% agree.  

[CamBee 7]

3 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Before this argument gets more theoretical,  can I point out that this is a (mainly) user-supported Forum,  and few of us will have any idea where in the Evernote / Electron / OS environment any key mapping /  conversions get handled.  If you need help on this - contact Support.  They may (or may not) be able to help.  If Evernote doesn't work for you - there nay be other software out there that will...

Howdy Gazumped.

I love Evernote.  I'd never leave it due to such a small nit.

I have reported this in great detail on the feedback site.  Just checking to see if there are other relevant discussions to see if there is anything I'm missing.

Is there a separate support site for Evernote?  I've only seen the feedback section and this forum.

Thanks!

[gazumped 11,703]

7 minutes ago, CamBee said:

Is there a separate support site for Evernote?

There's generic help here - plus links to a Support email (if you're a subscriber) - Evernote Help & Learning

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,979]

For a direct route to the Evernote support contact page: https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/requests/new. As noted, it is for paying subscribers. If you're on the free plan, since this would have a long-term effect on your use of Evernote, paying for a month's worth of subscription might be worthwhile, even if just to find out that the problem exists within the Electron framework.

[CamBee 7]

Yes, I'm a long-term premium paid subscription user.  Thank you both @Dave-in-Decatur & @gazumped

Edited January 2, 2023 by CamBee
simple addition