Jump to content
Introducing 'Templates' for Evernote Read more... ×
Notebook Limit Increase Read more... ×

Recommended Posts

We've seen Springpad bite the dust, Catch before that, etc. What if EN would have to toss the towel in the ring? In which format should one export one's notes to be able to import them into another app? EN state that the enex format allows import into any other app. But I have not come across an enex import option in other apps. So which is it? I have the Windows version of EN, but this question is pertinent to the Mac version too I imagine.

Share this post


Link to post

You can export to HTML. HTML is pretty portable.

Share this post


Link to post

I have absolutely no idea.

 

Because people like to complain?

 

Hang around here for a little while and particularly when there is a major update to the apps and you will see people behaving like it's the end of the world. It's not just Evernote though - take a look at the Apple forums when Yosemite or iOS8 come out. 

 

People don't like change, people love to complain.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

I know that but the example you give is a different kettle of fish: you are talking about change. And it is a well-known fact that people don't like change, especially where software is concerned, even if the new version IS an improvement on the previous version. But let's leave the philosophical aspect aside.

What does export to HTML do to the notes? Is everything of each note exported, such as:

  • attachments
  • pictures
  • metadata
  • .....

In other words, can I be sure that nothing gets "left behind" when I export to HTML? That is the crux.

Share this post


Link to post

Sure - but why don't you give it a try? Then you'll know for sure.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

So why are people always up in arms about EN's poor exportability??

What people?

 

What is the portable solution that you are looking for?

 

With respect to HTML export, you will lose some Evernote metadata like tags and notebook. Attachments are retained. Curiously, reminder information is retained as HTML metadata; not sure whether that's a standard thing or not. 

 

You can also try exporting to Evernote format, which is a documented XML-based format. You will retain tags and other Evernote metadata, as well as attachments, but everything will be encoded into text, but it's all there for a program to decode and reassemble. You will lose notebook names.

Share this post


Link to post

A program that understands Evernote format, which is documented (http://dev.evernote.com/doc/articles/enml.php). I don't know of any specific examples, but it's certainly possible: Evernote uses it as their over-the-wire format, as I understand it,and Evernote clients can read it. Beyond that, you'd need to do a search to see if anyone's done that yet.

 

One more thing: the Evernote format retains OCR information, but (at a guess), the HTML export does not.

Share this post


Link to post

I have absolutely no idea.

 

Because people like to complain?

 

Hang around here for a little while and particularly when there is a major update to the apps and you will see people behaving like it's the end of the world. It's not just Evernote though - take a look at the Apple forums when Yosemite or iOS8 come out. 

 

People don't like change, people love to complain.

To add to what Metrodon explained, it's not just when there is change. People often don't know how to do something with an app or device, and instead of asking a reasonable question, they start off by (metaphorically) shrieking "Why can't it do this? Why is it so awful?" It is only after they have calmed down that one can explain that what they want to do is actually quite possible, just maybe not exactly the way they were expecting. I kind of blame Apple. Computers used to primarily be used by people with technical degrees, by geeks and hobbyists. Now, I teach 92 year olds to use smart phones. As you can imagine, each demographic reacts a little bit differently to not knowing how to do something. ;-)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Now, I teach 92 year olds to use smart phones.

Wow...any 92 y/o who can see well enough to use their smartphone for anything other than a phone goes to the head of the class right there, in my book!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Evernote keeps the content in a proprietary XML format called ENML. 
But tools to extract the note content and convert it to HTML and back exist and are already provided by Evernote. 
The note metadata/attributes (like creation time, GPS information….) can be retrieved by using their SDK. 
So doing tools to fully extract and convert the Evernote content to other format are doable right now… if really needed.
 
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Ciprian,
Evernote Power user & creator of IdeaPlaces: A new way to explore and use Evernote
iOS app discussion & beta: https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/60737-ideaplaces-a-new-way-to-explore-and-use-evernote/

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

If, as the premise goes, Evernote goes belly-up, then the SDK, which works against the Evernote servers, would be of little use, assuming that Evernote didn't provide some new export or migration tool for some other format or system. That's why the focus is on the current export file formats, which are the ones that Evernote desktop clients (the ones that have your notes database loaded onto local storage) deal can handle (the mobile apps use ENML as far as I know, but don't do export). ENML is most complete export format (note content and metadata, all together), and while proprietary, is, as noted before, documented. Tools to extract that data and turn it into some different format are certainly doable, even if the servers are down. For all we know, they already exist; I haven't looked yet.

 

I pretty pretty safe retaining backups in ENML format.

Share this post


Link to post

Ciprian: where can one find these tools??

No tools needed. File - > Export Note(s) -> Format: HTML.

HTML is universally accessible. All of your attachments are stored in folders. Nothing will go missing. Naturally, though, Evernote is Evernote and other apps are other apps. They won't necessarily recognize notebooks, reminders, etc. That's just life, unless someone builds a special export / import tool for a particular app.

In my case, for the last few years I have regularly moved all of my notes in and out of Evernote (it's a long story you can read about on the forums sometime if you are interested). For about 10,000 notes it has usually taken me 15 minutes or so to get all the way from Evernote into nvALT or VoodooPad (Mac apps) or vice-versa. It has helped that I have only one notebook, use information-rich / unique titles for my notes, generally keep files in their own individual notes, and rely heavily on search + note links for navigation. In part, I prefer this kind of organization, but it is also well-suited for portability. You can read more about my approach on my website (see the link in my signature) if you are interested.

In short, you'll want to consider managing your account in a way that takes advantage of the tools that exist while remaining as compatible as possible with your workflow.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for your reply Grumpy Monkey, that is the clearest answer yet. And as for Evernote organisation I have approached the following way.

About 6 months ago I realised it was pointless to have notebooks so I put all my notes into 1 notebook. I kept using conventional tags, organised hierarchically to facilitate assigning tags to a new note. I had been using internal note links from the beginning which I think is extremely useful.This was working out better than my previous system of notebooks + tags, but I was not really satisfied.

 

Then I came across your interview with Daniel Gold & that put the penultimate piece of the puzzle in place.

I went through all my 1000-odd notes, deleted the conventional tags & added a short code to the title of a good number of notes. I say a good number because not every note needs a title tag. By the way, in Daniel Gold's article it says you don't use tags, but that is not really true. Your so-called keywords are effectively title tags.

I call my own new tags "short code title tags". By short code I mean for example "bg" for background, "au" for automation, "spv" for security & privacy, etc. And I can find 95% of my info with intitle searches.

 

I mentioned the penultimate piece of the puzzle above. What was still missing is a decent & especially systematic way of keeping Evernote clean. The one point I do not agree on with you is to never delete any notes. Sooner or later your searches will get polluted with clutter & your search efficiency is bound to suffer. You see it differently but this is my view.

Anyway, I subsequently came across a post by Jason Frasca in which he explains that there are basically 2 kinds of notes: those that become obsolete (sooner or later, but not according to your views :) ) & those that never expire. In order to be able to review the 1st category regularly they need to be tagged accordingly. This was so obvious, beautiful & simple that I wondered how I had not thought about it myself. But that's life: often the simplest things escape simple commoners like myself.

 

So, once more, I went through all my notes & added a short title tag "ex" to those that will expire 1 day. Once a month I check the notes added during the month to see if they are title tagged properly, especially regarding the "ex" tag.

And I also look at 6 months worth of notes with "ex" title tags to see which ones can be deleted. Those that are not deleted will be pass the review the month after.

 

Now I a really happy bee & EN works like a dream. Thanks to you & Jason for the right inspiration :D .

Share this post


Link to post

Ciprian: where can one find these tools??

There are links in his sig, also a topic in the Third Party Application Discussions area.

Share this post


Link to post

This may be contrary to the spirit of your effort, DutchPete, but it suggests to me that "expiration date" might be a useful metadata item for Evernotes. 

 

The search terms could be expanded to include "expired:true" and "expired:false", and the user could have the option to either automatically delete (archive?) expired notes, or simply add them to a "smart notebook". 

 

Hey! Smart notebooks. What a concept! (For those unfamiliar, a smart notebook is just a saved search that you give a name to. Any notes meeting the search criteria are added to the notebook.) 

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Rob, I appreciate this feedback. Although it is no longer related to the original subject I will take you up on it. I would not know how to add "expiration date" to the metadata, but before I would consider it, here is my thinking.

The notes that currently have a title tag "ex" are assessed every month whether they can be deleted or not yet at this stage. I cannot automate it because I need to do the real assessment. And I am not sure what added value transferring them to a smart notebook would bring.

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah, this has wandered off the topic a bit.

 

OK, so calling a saved search a "smart notebook" just seems confusing in the context of Evernote: notebooks have particular semantics that saved searches don't have. Sure, they both are just filters on your note database, but you can't, for example, share notes based on a saved search, or make "local" saved searches on desktop Evernote or have "offline" saved searches on mobile Evernote, Whether it would be cool / useful to have these is besides the point; they don't exist in Evernote now.

 

The notion of expiration dates on notes has come up before. Without having Evernote add these, you could probably just use reminders as a workaround, which are in place already (obviously you couldn't use them for notes that are legitimate reminders), but combined with a special tag (normal Evernote or "title tag") this might work.

Share this post


Link to post

Jefito thanks for jumping in. I already have saved searches for finding my expiry notes. I am not sure what you mean by not being able to use "local" saved searches on desktop, because all my notes are local & are in a local notebook, but all my saved searches work.

Anyway, I do use the reminders workaround in certain circumstances.

So, in summary, I think I am not missing anything important & we can close this thread because the original subject has been covered adequately.

Share this post


Link to post

Ah, all I meant to say was that you cannot designate a set of notes as being "local" (desktop scenario) or "offline" (mobile scenario) using a saved search as the criterion: you can only do this with single notebooks. SO using the term "smart notebook" for a saved search could cause confusion if users expected to be able to make local smart notebooks. This evidently doesn't apply to you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

My main concern with Evernote (or other cloud based services), is that I don't feel in control of my own content. 

 

I understand that I can still access my notes if, say, I cancel my membership - although somewhere it states that if I inactive for a pro-longed period of time Evernote my delete my notes… that's just scary actually… 

 

But here is another one that really freaks me out… And this may be the big white elephant in the room but: what if Evernote goes bust? 

 

Is my data safe? Is my content safe? How can I access my content? Am I able to download all the intelligence I've gathered? 

Also I have a premium account with my employer - when I collect notes on that premium account and, god forbid, I one day leave that company, will I still be able to access my notes? Or do those notes then belong to the company? I mean I understand that I sign a NDA agreement with the company, but the that's something else to someone just taking all notes away from you? In the old pen and paper days employers would NOT keep my notes… right?

 

Quite puzzled really that these questions aren't covered… 

 

Thoughts anyone? 

Share this post


Link to post

My main concern with Evernote (or other cloud based services), is that I don't feel in control of my own content. 

 

I understand that I can still access my notes if, say, I cancel my membership - although somewhere it states that if I inactive for a pro-longed period of time Evernote my delete my notes… that's just scary actually… 

 

But here is another one that really freaks me out… And this may be the big white elephant in the room but: what if Evernote goes bust? 

 

Is my data safe? Is my content safe? How can I access my content? Am I able to download all the intelligence I've gathered? 

Also I have a premium account with my employer - when I collect notes on that premium account and, god forbid, I one day leave that company, will I still be able to access my notes? Or do those notes then belong to the company? I mean I understand that I sign a NDA agreement with the company, but the that's something else to someone just taking all notes away from you? In the old pen and paper days employers would NOT keep my notes… right?

 

Quite puzzled really that these questions aren't covered… 

 

Thoughts anyone? 

 

 

Desktop versions of Evernote keep the files localy as well as sending them to the cloud so as long as the program starts you can get to them.  Pretty sure it will let you access the notes locally without needing to authenticate with the servers.  The Mac version you can even access the individual notes on your hard drive, not sure if you can do that in the windows version.  Since you have it locally you can always make regular backups of the files if your that worried.  Make sure any mobile notes you take get synced to the desktop client.

 

As for taking your notes from your employer...ethically/legally that is something that you would need to discuss with your employer or at least a lawyer as any paperwork you sign including the NDA may have language stating that you cannot take the info.  Generally the best bet is to assume you are NOT allowed.  As far as the technical answer you can always export your notes from the Employers verson and import them into a separate personal account at anypoint in wich you are still able to access the employers account.

 

They might keep pen and paper notes depending on policy and what information the notes contain, for example a "secret recipe", "Special ingredient", or "trade secret".  Just because you can walk out with the paper doesn't technically mean you are legally allowed to. Especially if those notes were on company time, company location, company procedure/info.

 

If the notes were personal notes the employer may allow you to take them, but if it is personal notes why not just get a free personal account and be done with it.  One problem though is you may not be allowed per company policy to access private accounts at work.

 

I'm not a lawyer, just speaking from some previous experiences and info I have read on the matter of cloud access.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for that… that does answer my question on the high level… where can I access my notes on my local drive?

 

That would be the only outstanding issue… 

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for that… that does answer my question on the high level… where can I access my notes on my local drive?

 

That would be the only outstanding issue… 

 

In the Evernote Windows client open Tool/Options, on the General tab it shows you where your notes are stored.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for that… that does answer my question on the high level… where can I access my notes on my local drive?

 

That would be the only outstanding issue… 

Just to be a little more precise about this: on the Windows  desktop client, your notes are stored locally in a SQLlite database. It''s found in the location that DutchPete mentioned, and has the extension .exb. You're kinda on your own if you want to spelunk that database, but it can be done; you'd probably want to know more about the Evernote architecture (in and around this page: https://dev.evernote.com/doc/articles/data_structure.php). Alternatively, you can export to either HTML or ENML formats, as the linked topic discusses. There are pluses and minuses to each. Or you could check out a cloud service like CloudHQ to export to other formats; again, pluses and minuses to any/all of those.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

At a high level you might ask the question "What happens if my hard drive fails?"

 

One solution is to ensure that you have a backup of your hard drive. This is a good solution for ensuring that you don't lose data when a hard drive fails.

 

Of course, with a cloud based solution, the storage solution is setup to to have multiple redundant backups, so theoretically the data is safe. But if you feel the need to have another backup under your own direct control, you can always export your notes and back them up yourself.

 

Learn more about how to export your notes from Evernote https://evernote.com/contact/support/kb/#!/article/28607737

Here's how the export format works http://blog.evernote.com/tech/2013/08/08/evernote-export-format-enex/

 

As for your question about work. Does your work use "Evernote" or "Evernote business"?

If the former, then JimKn makes a good point.

If the latter, then your business has already defined the terms of how and when you can take your business notes away from a business when you sever your relationship with them, but you will always have access to your personal notes.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

If you export notes, be aware that when you reimport them into Evernote, although the notes themselves are fine, all internal links (i.e. the links between notes) are irremediably broken.

If you save the entire database (usename.exb file) and reintroduce that back into Evernote, all internal notes remain intact.

But with export/reimport you can choose which notes to put bqck, with the database you cannot.

In any case, beware of the export/reimport note link issue. I was not & lost all my internal links.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Technical redundancy is besides the point. I understand the issues around HD's and have RAIDS and back-ups setup. Sure there's fire but I also link up in various locaitons.

 

What I'm worried about is compliance to the T&C's and your data, which may be sensitive. When a company is nearing bankruptcy they might do "whatever it takes" in order to save their financial situation. Selling data can be a matter of survival, even if you a 'safe' by an agreement you may never know what happens to the data in the cloud - which, can be quite sensitive at times… and that's only the worst case scenario. Essentially they may in such a case just lack the resources to make sure your data stays private, there could also be a take over which may mean a different set of values around data. And if anyone thinks that this may not happen due to Evernote's strength right now; think again. There are not many companies that actually survive for, say, over 50 years or even 30 years… 

 

 

I guess the answer to how to pull out of the service in case of doubt and still have access to your data is an export of your notes into HTML or enex I guess if there are other software solutions in the future that can also read enex… though I wonder if there's a place on the HD where the files/database are stored? I can't find anything in the library… 

 

Any input around that? 

Share this post


Link to post

Technical redundancy is besides the point. I understand the issues around HD's and have RAIDS and back-ups setup. Sure there's fire but I also link up in various locaitons.

 

What I'm worried about is compliance to the T&C's and your data, which may be sensitive. When a company is nearing bankruptcy they might do "whatever it takes" in order to save their financial situation. Selling data can be a matter of survival, even if you a 'safe' by an agreement you may never know what happens to the data in the cloud - which, can be quite sensitive at times... 

 

 

I guess the answer is you can export your notes in enex or HTML… though I wonder if there's a place on the HD where the files are stored? I can't find anything in the library… 

 

Any input around that? 

For desktop machines, yes, your data is stored, in toto, on your local hard drive. On Windows, you can find the SQLlite database via Tools / Options / General / Open Database Folder. On the Mac, I don't know, but it's there somewhere.

Share this post


Link to post

on mac it is even easier to access -- it's even searchable through spotlight.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=135

if evernote disappeared tomorrow (unlikely), your data would be safe and sound. but, if your notes somehow got corrupted (some rare, isolated incidents in the past -- old notes overwriting new, attachments going missing, shard problems, etc.), you'd need a backup. backups are always recommended for everything. for mac folks, it is as easy as plugging in an external hard drive and starting time machine.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=962

@ jefito

click on the link and evernote the page! i've got the mac folks covered :)

Share this post


Link to post

Let's just agree to disagree on the point "your data is safe when a company goes bust". I don't think it is you think it is. The point I'm making is you can't know for sure. And it is actually highly likely that Evernote will not exist forever - the only question is: will it survive me. For the purpose of the conversation it doesn't matter. 

 

What matters is:

 

Where can I find the local evernote database on my Mac?

Share this post


Link to post

Let's just agree to disagree on the point "your data is safe when a company goes bust". I don't think it is you think it is. The point I'm making is you can't know for sure. And it is actually highly likely that Evernote will not exist forever - the only question is: will it survive me. For the purpose of the conversation it doesn't matter.

What matters is:

Where can I find the local evernote database on my Mac?

please read my post. the location is easy to find. all of your data is there on your mac.

you might disagree that all of our data is safe, but i don't see any evidence for your objection. turn off the internet and give it a try. there it is. go into time machine and there it is.

now, my definition of safe on the cloud includes zero knowledge encryption, so i guess it is always unsafe from my perspective! we can agree to agree about it with this definition :) you seem to be thinking along the same lines.

to put it into perspective, think about dropbox. all of your data is in there, but it is also on your machine. as long as you are backing up your machine, even if something terrible happened on the cloud, all your data would be in your hands, right? dropbox has encryption, but it also holds the keys, so i consider it meaningless. your scenario, a rogue employee, etc. is always a possibility with the cloud. Hence, my feature request for zero-knowledge encrypted notebooks in Evernote.

Share this post


Link to post

Let's just agree to disagree on the point "your data is safe when a company goes bust". I don't think it is you think it is. The point I'm making is you can't know for sure. And it is actually highly likely that Evernote will not exist forever - the only question is: will it survive me. For the purpose of the conversation it doesn't matter. 

 

What matters is:

 

Where can I find the local evernote database on my Mac?

 I don't agree with you: the fact that you have your data on your local drive as well means that, even if Evernote were to disappear from 1 day to the next, you still have that copy of ALL your data on your local drive.

 

However, if on that same fateful day you were to drop your computer & your hard drive would be irreparably damaged, you should still be OK if you have backed up your data to e.g. an external hard drive, or a USB stick, or a 3rd party cloud (Google Drive, OneDrive, SpiderOak, ....) or whatever it may be.

So there is no need to keep hammering the point, just be aware that your data is your sole responsibility, not Evernote's !!!

 

As far as selling your data is concerned, the likes of Google, Yahoo & others have been doing it for years already, quite legally. If you were not aware of it, then you are now.

 

Your local database on your Mac: see Grumpy Monkey's mail above. If that is still no good, just search amongst all your folders & you'll find it.

Share this post


Link to post

Apologies about that … Grumpy did indeed provide the answer to my question and I agree that no data is entirely safe on the cloud … all the more important to be able to "pull your data" if one day you feel it isn't secured on dropbox/evernote/drive whatever service it may be ...

 

Thanks all this is brilliant help...

Share this post


Link to post

Apologies about that … Grumpy did indeed provide the answer to my question and I agree that no data is entirely safe on the cloud … all the more important to be able to "pull your data" if one day you feel it isn't secured on dropbox/evernote/drive whatever service it may be ...

 

Thanks all this is brilliant help...

glad we could help. please keep beating the drums to raise awareness about cloud security. only by clearly broadcasting to companies that we have a minimum expectation of zero-knowledge encryption will we see necessary changes. i wonder how many horror stories it will take before people demand it (see my site for some terrible ones -- there are more every day). evernote is as secure as many well-known cloud services, so it isn't doing anything wrong. the problem is that it could be doing better. i am still waiting for the "sexy" encryption options the ceo promised us a little more than a year ago...

Share this post


Link to post

 

Apologies about that … Grumpy did indeed provide the answer to my question and I agree that no data is entirely safe on the cloud … all the more important to be able to "pull your data" if one day you feel it isn't secured on dropbox/evernote/drive whatever service it may be ...

 

Thanks all this is brilliant help...

glad we could help. please keep beating the drums to raise awareness about cloud security. only by clearly broadcasting to companies that we have a minimum expectation of zero-knowledge encryption will we see necessary changes. i wonder how many horror stories it will take before people demand it (see my site for some terrible ones -- there are more every day). evernote is as secure as many well-known cloud services, so it isn't doing anything wrong. the problem is that it could be doing better. i am still waiting for the "sexy" encryption options the ceo promised us a little more than a year ago...

 

 

Zero-knowledge encryption is a relative term because it is not always 200% zero-knowledge - see e.g. this article http://www.cloudwards.net/spideroak-or-wuala-which-is-more-secure/ about 2 companies with almost (it transpires) zero-knowledge. Tresorit might be "200%" zero-knowledge, I know of no others. I dont use Tresorit by the way.

 

As for Evernote, they are far from zero-knowledge. But we are now getting off the original subject of this thread.

Share this post


Link to post

Apologies about that … Grumpy did indeed provide the answer to my question and I agree that no data is entirely safe on the cloud … all the more important to be able to "pull your data" if one day you feel it isn't secured on dropbox/evernote/drive whatever service it may be ...

 

Thanks all this is brilliant help...

glad we could help. please keep beating the drums to raise awareness about cloud security. only by clearly broadcasting to companies that we have a minimum expectation of zero-knowledge encryption will we see necessary changes. i wonder how many horror stories it will take before people demand it (see my site for some terrible ones -- there are more every day). evernote is as secure as many well-known cloud services, so it isn't doing anything wrong. the problem is that it could be doing better. i am still waiting for the "sexy" encryption options the ceo promised us a little more than a year ago...

 

Zero-knowledge encryption is a relative term because it is not always 200% zero-knowledge - see e.g. this article http://www.cloudwards.net/spideroak-or-wuala-which-is-more-secure/ about 2 companies with almost (it transpires) zero-knowledge. Tresorit might be "200%" zero-knowledge, I know of no others. I dont use Tresorit by the way.

 

As for Evernote, they are far from zero-knowledge. But we are now getting off the original subject of this thread.

I use zero-knowledge loosely to mean companies that encrypt your data but do not hold the encryption key. In fact, it seems to be quite difficult to "prove" that this is the case on the cloud. The link was extremely informative, and I encourage people to read it along with the blogs at each company. I use SpiderOak myself. It's not perfect, but I think this is a huge step forward in terms of safety / security / privacy / anonymity in the cloud. Evernote is very, very far away from this emerging standard. I don't know why, because the company leaders are knowledgable about this stuff.

As for the topic, it is tangentially related to the OP's question. When companies go bust or near it, things happen. It takes a year or so to get rid of your data in EN, so you could potentially have your data floating around for a while without daily management. Fortunately, Evernote has publicly made its position clear, and they will not "sell" your data, so we are really speculating about the realm of impropriety or illegality. At least some of this concern could be assuaged by zero knowledge encryption for notebooks.

It is worth stressing, in relation to the OP's original question, that your data is very much in your hands. It's just that some of us think we should also ask who else's hands it could potentially get into. Speculation, to be sure, but useful nonetheless. Feel free to flag me as a spammer, report me, move me, or anything else you believe should be done. I'm prepared to be moderated!

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

 

Apologies about that … Grumpy did indeed provide the answer to my question and I agree that no data is entirely safe on the cloud … all the more important to be able to "pull your data" if one day you feel it isn't secured on dropbox/evernote/drive whatever service it may be ...

 

Thanks all this is brilliant help...

glad we could help. please keep beating the drums to raise awareness about cloud security. only by clearly broadcasting to companies that we have a minimum expectation of zero-knowledge encryption will we see necessary changes. i wonder how many horror stories it will take before people demand it (see my site for some terrible ones -- there are more every day). evernote is as secure as many well-known cloud services, so it isn't doing anything wrong. the problem is that it could be doing better. i am still waiting for the "sexy" encryption options the ceo promised us a little more than a year ago...

 

Zero-knowledge encryption is a relative term because it is not always 200% zero-knowledge - see e.g. this article http://www.cloudwards.net/spideroak-or-wuala-which-is-more-secure/ about 2 companies with almost (it transpires) zero-knowledge. Tresorit might be "200%" zero-knowledge, I know of no others. I dont use Tresorit by the way.

 

As for Evernote, they are far from zero-knowledge. But we are now getting off the original subject of this thread.

I use zero-knowledge loosely to mean companies that encrypt your data but do not hold the encryption key. In fact, it seems to be quite difficult to "prove" that this is the case on the cloud. The link was extremely informative, and I encourage people to read it along with the blogs at each company. I use SpiderOak myself. It's not perfect, but I think this is a huge step forward in terms of safety / security / privacy / anonymity in the cloud. Evernote is very, very far away from this emerging standard. I don't know why, because the company leaders are knowledgable about this stuff.

As for the topic, it is tangentially related to the OP's question. When companies go bust or near it, things happen. It takes a year or so to get rid of your data in EN, so you could potentially have your data floating around for a while without daily management. Fortunately, Evernote has publicly made its position clear, and they will not "sell" your data, so we are really speculating about the realm of impropriety or illegality. At least some of this concern could be assuaged by zero knowledge encryption for notebooks.

It is worth stressing, in relation to the OP's original question, that your data is very much in your hands. It's just that some of us think we should also ask who else's hands it could potentially get into. Speculation, to be sure, but useful nonetheless. Feel free to flag me as a spammer, report me, move me, or anything else you believe should be done. I'm prepared to be moderated!

 

 

Thanks GM & you are a fine moderator. By the way, I use Wuala & am very happy with it & it also has a better allowance than SpiderOak.

Share this post


Link to post

Apologies about that … Grumpy did indeed provide the answer to my question and I agree that no data is entirely safe on the cloud … all the more important to be able to "pull your data" if one day you feel it isn't secured on dropbox/evernote/drive whatever service it may be ...

 

Thanks all this is brilliant help...

glad we could help. please keep beating the drums to raise awareness about cloud security. only by clearly broadcasting to companies that we have a minimum expectation of zero-knowledge encryption will we see necessary changes. i wonder how many horror stories it will take before people demand it (see my site for some terrible ones -- there are more every day). evernote is as secure as many well-known cloud services, so it isn't doing anything wrong. the problem is that it could be doing better. i am still waiting for the "sexy" encryption options the ceo promised us a little more than a year ago...

 

Zero-knowledge encryption is a relative term because it is not always 200% zero-knowledge - see e.g. this article http://www.cloudwards.net/spideroak-or-wuala-which-is-more-secure/ about 2 companies with almost (it transpires) zero-knowledge. Tresorit might be "200%" zero-knowledge, I know of no others. I dont use Tresorit by the way.

 

As for Evernote, they are far from zero-knowledge. But we are now getting off the original subject of this thread.

I use zero-knowledge loosely to mean companies that encrypt your data but do not hold the encryption key. In fact, it seems to be quite difficult to "prove" that this is the case on the cloud. The link was extremely informative, and I encourage people to read it along with the blogs at each company. I use SpiderOak myself. It's not perfect, but I think this is a huge step forward in terms of safety / security / privacy / anonymity in the cloud. Evernote is very, very far away from this emerging standard. I don't know why, because the company leaders are knowledgable about this stuff.

As for the topic, it is tangentially related to the OP's question. When companies go bust or near it, things happen. It takes a year or so to get rid of your data in EN, so you could potentially have your data floating around for a while without daily management. Fortunately, Evernote has publicly made its position clear, and they will not "sell" your data, so we are really speculating about the realm of impropriety or illegality. At least some of this concern could be assuaged by zero knowledge encryption for notebooks.

It is worth stressing, in relation to the OP's original question, that your data is very much in your hands. It's just that some of us think we should also ask who else's hands it could potentially get into. Speculation, to be sure, but useful nonetheless. Feel free to flag me as a spammer, report me, move me, or anything else you believe should be done. I'm prepared to be moderated!

 

Thanks GM & you are a fine moderator. By the way, I use Wuala & am very happy with it & it also has a better allowance than SpiderOak.

i'll look into wuala. to be honest, though, i might be able to work without the cloud by this winter. i have a pretty good system set up for myself right now, and very little makes use of cloud services. my particular work situation is flexible this way, but i could also see how even a few small changes in my work would make the cloud necessary again for the stuff i want to get done. we'll see. at any rate, i'm glad there is competition i the security / privacy space. i hope evernote will jump into the fray sooner rather than later.

Share this post


Link to post

×