Evernote 10 is now even worse than it was when it first came out

[Mark Forster 8]

Evernote has now forced me to change from the "Legacy" version (i.e. the version that actually worked) to Evernote 10. I tried v.10 briefly when it first came out, and made a considerable number of comments as requested - all of which were ignored. Now that I have been forced to leave Legacy, I've found that 10 is even worse than it was when I first tried it. In fact it's an absolute nightmare. Nothing in the right place, nothing is intuitive, it's very ugly, difficult to use, and missing some of the features which I used a lot (e.g. Presentation Mode). It's forcing me to break routines which I've been using for decades, and just generally takes twice as long to do even the simplest job - and that's after I've had to waste my time searching for buttons which are no longer where they used to be.

I've been with Evernote from its very earliest days. I have got a vast amount of stuff in it. Moving would be a major effort - yet I think I'm going to have to. What are the latest recommendations for alternatives?

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,971]

On 3/11/2024 at 12:17 PM, Mark Forster said:

1) How do I see all notes?

If it's still worth mentioning after all this, there's a keyboard shortcut for the Notes list: Ctrl+Alt+2. If you like KB shortcuts, Evernote 10 is still well equipped with them. Use Ctrl+/ (or click the keyboard icon at bottom left) to see the list; under Navigation there is a set of them used to view e.g. Tasks, Notebooks, etc.

[HDMiller 15]

I switched to Joplin a few months ago, and I love it.  It has almost all of the features of legacy Evernote that I relied on, and the few features it doesn't have I've learned to live without.  The biggest thing that Joplin doesn't have that I used extensively in Evernote is nested tags; Joplin has tags, you just can't nest them.   No other program has nested tags, either, though, so the only way to switch out of Evernote is to give up on nested tags.   There are also some things that Joplin does that Evernote doesn't do (you have to install some of the plugins to find some of them), so on balance, I feel like I've come out ahead.

I use both the Windows and Android versions of Joplin and it syncs well and costs zero to do it as long as you have a Dropbox account or other mechanism for storing the data on the web.  (If you don't have Dropbox you can pay for Joplin's cloud storage).  I still have thousands of notes and documents stored in the Legacy version of Evernote, which I am slowly and selectively migrating to Joplin or deleting.  A lot of the stuff I have in Evernote is old and useless at this point, so even though I could mass-migrate it all, I don't really want to.   I switched off syncing of Evernote Legacy and just use it on Windows for finding the old stuff, and it works fine that way.  Anything I really want to be able to find on the Android version of Joplin, I just migrate it from Evernote to Joplin on Windows.  All of the new stuff that I store in Joplin is accessible in both places automatically.   

Like any change, it takes a little while to adapt, but Joplin's structure is so close to Evernote that it really wasn't very hard.

Staying subscribed to this forum reminds me how happy I am to have made the switch!

[s2sailor 2,230]

17 minutes ago, Mark Forster said:

What are the latest recommendations for alternatives?

It really depends on what you need or want. There are already several other Evernote alternative threads out there to get you started.

[PinkElephant 8,170]

You ever lived for a longtime in a place ? Cozy, nice, familiar, ok, a bit run down (no, a lot). The demolition man announced himself, staying is no option.

And then you moved to another place, new, different neighborhood, fresh pantheon and all. But it was not the same place.

You either get acquainted to it - or you move again. No guarantees the next place will be better.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,971]

I remember clearly how very little was working on v. 10 when it first came out, so I can't agree at all that it's worse now. When it finally got to where it seemed usable, I started using the Web version while still mainly working in v. 6. That way I could get used to where things were in the new system. I got accustomed to it as I worked, instead of on an emergency basis, as some people have (honestly) put themselves in the position of doing now. There is no such thing as a "right place" or an "intuitive place"; most of what we call "intuitive" in software just means what we're used to. As v. 10 began to have things I could use that were missing in v. 6, I gradually began using it exclusively. For instance, I love the ability to have nearly equal features and appearance across all platforms (which Legacy never did). When I first started using Evernote, it took me awhile to learn how I could best use it--I even had to look around to find where functions were. I invested some time in learning how best to use Evernote then, and I did the same with v. 10, and it's working for me.

2 hours ago, HDMiller said:

I switched to Joplin a few months ago, and I love it.  It has almost all of the features of legacy Evernote that I relied on, and the few features it doesn't have I've learned to live without....

Like any change, it takes a little while to adapt, but Joplin's structure is so close to Evernote that it really wasn't very hard....

That pretty much exactly describes my experience with Evernote 10.

[Mark Forster 8]

Thanks everyone for their answers.

I've continued to struggle with the new desktop version since I posted my query 21 hours ago. So perhaps some kind person could answer these questions for me?

1) How do I see all notes?

2) How do I allocate a note to a notebook?

3) How do I tag a note?

It's ridiculous that someone who's been using Evernote since it started should have to ask these questions.

[Mike P 2,661]

7 minutes ago, Mark Forster said:

1) How do I see all notes?

"Notes" in the sidebar

 

7 minutes ago, Mark Forster said:

2) How do I allocate a note to a notebook?

So many ways!

Click on the note title at the top of the note

Drag the note from the note list onto the notebook name in the sidebar

Drag the notebook name from the sidebar onto the note in the note list

7 minutes ago, Mark Forster said:

3) How do I tag a note?

Again lots of ways. For example:

Start typing the tag name in the tag area at the bottom of the note

Drag a tag from the sidebar onto the note in the note list or onto the preview of the note itself

Drag a note from the notelist onto the tag

Use the edit tags box (alt+ctrl+T

[Mark Forster 8]

Thanks Mike, that's extremely helpful.

So basically everything can be done in every possible way except the way it was done in the old version?

Makes sense I suppose in a weird sort of way.

[Mike P 2,661]

8 minutes ago, Mark Forster said:

So basically everything can be done in every possible way except the way it was done in the old version?

How did you do it in the legacy version? Certainly some of thse methods worked in legacy, and I don't remember this particular issue being a pain point when I transitioned.

[PinkElephant 8,170]

There are sufficient ways to do everything. And the basics have not changed at all:

Each note needs to be in a (1) notebook at any time.

There can be multiple tags applied.

What has changed is that the basics now work seamlessly on all clients: Nested tags work on all clients, including mobile. One can easily include or exclude child tags from searches, etc.

All this never worked seamlessly on legacy - it was an agglomeration of islands, and what worked on one client didn’t work necessarily on another.

[s2sailor 2,230]

1 hour ago, Mark Forster said:

So basically everything can be done in every possible way except the way it was done in the old version?

I think if you approach v10 as a new and different app, which it is, instead of trying and then wondering why you can’t do it like before, you “might” find the transition to v10 easier.

[Mark Forster 8]

1 hour ago, Mike P said:

How did you do it in the legacy version? Certainly some of thse methods worked in legacy, and I don't remember this particular issue being a pain point when I transitioned.

You could allocate/change both the notebook and the tag from the top of the note. This was fast and intuitive.

 

[s2sailor 2,230]

22 minutes ago, Mark Forster said:

You could allocate/change both the notebook and the tag from the top of the note. This was fast and intuitive.

 

Moving the tag to the bottom was quite controversial at the time.  I think most of us have just gotten use to it and moved on.

[PinkElephant 8,170]

From my experience it depends on the number of tags: There is more space to show multiple tags at the bottom.

Who uses only few tags may not notice. And for those who don’t use tags it has no importance at all.

[Mark Forster 8]

6 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Moving the tag to the bottom was quite controversial at the time.  I think most of us have just gotten use to it and moved on.

Yes, I remember commenting unfavourably about it when they asked for feed-back.

Bear in mind that you and the others who are replying to my original are (presumably) people who have stayed with Evernote. But every single Evernote user I knew left - I was the only one who stayed.

[PinkElephant 8,170]

You may call this „survivor’s bias“.

Given the fact that more than 90% of all users (I think the real figure was beyond 95%) were on Free, it is not necessarily a bad message that most have left. These are the „customers“ I wish to be with my competition.

For the paying customers things get sorted out: Those who stay know why. Either they tried another service and came back, or learned from discussions like the one we have here that it doesn’t look like a good idea to invest time and effort into switching.

[Mark Forster 8]

49 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

All this never worked seamlessly on legacy - it was an agglomeration of islands, and what worked on one client didn’t work necessarily on another.

Although I have all three, it's the desktop version I use 99% of the time. I've never had a problem with the other two though.

[Mark Forster 8]

47 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

I think if you approach v10 as a new and different app, which it is, instead of trying and then wondering why you can’t do it like before, you “might” find the transition to v10 easier.

But of course if you are presented with a new and different app, then you might investigate other new and different apps to see if they are better.

[PinkElephant 8,170]

It is a fact the mobile versions didn’t support nested tags. This prevented me from using the feature in former times.

There are other examples where the clients did not do the same, or had different feature sets. The code base was impossible to maintain, developing  a feature meant coding it 4-5 times. Over the years this ruined the market position for a lack of consistency and new features..

[PinkElephant 8,170]

2 minutes ago, Mark Forster said:

But of course if you are presented with a new and different app, then you might investigate other new and different apps to see if they are better.

v10 IS a new app - it has the advantage it links to the same server database.

It does not try to sell itself as a legacy clone.

[Mark Forster 8]

8 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Given the fact that more than 90% of all users (I think the real figure was beyond 95%) were on Free, it is not necessarily a bad message that most have left. These are the customers I wish to be with my competition.

For the paying customers things get sorted out: Those who stay know why. Either they tried another service and came back, or learned from discussions like the one we have here that it doesn’t look like a good idea to invest time and effort into switching.

Well I've been a paying customer since the beginning. But if 90+% of the users are free, then isn't the fault the charging structure, rather than the app itself?

[s2sailor 2,230]

17 minutes ago, Mark Forster said:

But of course if you are presented with a new and different app, then you might investigate other new and different apps to see if they are better.

Sure, no argument there.  I routinely check out new apps to see if there’s one out there that I would like better or would work better for me.

[PinkElephant 8,170]

The generous Free plan was clearly the issue of a corporate strategy that has put growth in user numbers above profitability. It was the decade of cheap money, where missing revenue was compensated by fresh investors funds. It was no accident. The Free plan was designed to keep people with little demand on features onboarded. I don’t know the conversion rate to paid, but I assume it was dreadful.

It was no accident either that it failed. EN management didn’t take the necessary decisions when interest rates went up, and investors money dried up.

Personally I think the current free plan is still too soft on archived agglomerations of data. But I think we will see this tackled in the not too far future.

For the rest, the subscription model creates a pretty stable stream of income.

For me as user nothing has changed. I know what I get, I know what I need. As long as value and price is in an acceptable range, I better watch for matters of more urgent attention.

[s2sailor 2,230]

2 hours ago, Mark Forster said:

Well I've been a paying customer since the beginning. But if 90+% of the users are free, then isn't the fault the charging structure, rather than the app itself?

The freemium model never made sense to me. I never liked paying for the free users, but that was the deal at the time. I’m glad to see it gone.

[Mark Forster 8]

Thanks everyone for your help and comments. I shall stick with Evernote for the moment and see how I get on with the changes.

[Sledr 8]

On 3/10/2024 at 3:58 PM, HDMiller said:

I switched to Joplin a few months ago, and I love it.  It has almost all of the features of legacy Evernote that I relied on, and the few features it doesn't have I've learned to live without.  The biggest thing that Joplin doesn't have that I used extensively in Evernote is nested tags; Joplin has tags, you just can't nest them.   No other program has nested tags, either, though, so the only way to switch out of Evernote is to give up on nested tags.  

 

Obsidian has Nested Tags! And they are Real Nested Tags.  Evernote kinda has a Parent tag but you have to manually move child tags under the parent tag.  In Obsidian when you first type the tag - that's the way it is, no followup maintenance is required.  I find I'm doing so much less TAG maintenance in Obsidian, than in Evernote.

The reason I did not switch to Joplin was because it lacks nested tags.

[Mike P 2,661]

6 hours ago, Sledr said:

Evernote kinda has a Parent tag but you have to manually move child tags under the parent tag. 

That's only true if you create tags "on the fly" at the bottom of a note. There are plenty of ways of creating tags within the hierarchy which involve no double handling.