Kolmir

On 12/11/2020 at 9:10 PM, luvmyc6 said:

 I was a Software Quality Assurance and Testing manager at a major global company - and I find this statement "extensive QA process..." highly suspect - I found at least 25 "simple and basic" issues when I first launched the new iOS version of the app (for example, could not add a space between two images that were imported at the same time (minor), and duplicate (conflict) notes constantly being generated (major)).

So while they may have done a long beta program, my questions are:

• What level of user were their Beta Testers (how many longer term high use users that "stretched" the app beyond simple functionality) from which they documented their user functionality testing use cases?
• How many of the reported KNOWN ISSUES during beta testing were actually addressed before releasing the new V10 code base?

I have pretty similar background like you. I was responsible as a manager to assure high quality software delivery (A-SPICE L2) for one of major players in the automotive sector.

1. Yeah, my reaction for "extensive QA process" was just laughing loud! 😉 Current state of new app doesn't give us evidences that they even perform minimum QA...

2. You can review old preview/beta forums here - they are still available in read-only mode.

In the first half of the 2020 many preview/beta users tried to convey the message to EvN that new software wasn't ready even for beta stage and testing phase should took at least twice as long or even more. Unfortunately, such voices were ignored - probably due to some high level managerial decisions.

By the way: no "testing use cases" were available during public preview/beta. Whole process just looked as an exact opposite to the best practices proposed for example by ATDD/TDD or ISO like 15504 or 12207 or 15288, etc. Dev team simply provided new test releases as is - without proper release notes... There were no test scenarios, no detailed infos what were modified or added...

Moreover, EvN definitions of "preview" or "beta" were against well established concepts like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Stages_of_development

3 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Apologies for what ? For a bad release ? I don’t want nice sounding words (predefined from a sleazy communications guy, counterread by 3 lawyers in pinstrip suits, getting money they better use to employ some more engineers), I expect them to get things done.

You can install the legacy client, use it and wait until v10 matures. Then you have what you had before - so for what exactly you want to be refunded ?

Not for blog posts like the ones I can read here, be assured. They read like hitting your own toe with a hammer, again and again, and asking the EN guys every time whether they feel the pain. No, don’t feel - so  🔨wham 😩

In the meantime there were some small issues with my Internet connection and sat-TV. Both companies apologized and offered small discount/gift. So, get real. It's CX.

Moreover, in 2012 "Apple CEO Tim Cook has written an open letter on Apple’s website, finally apologizing for the Maps drama that’s been unfolding over the past few weeks with the introduction of iOS 6." https://techcrunch.com/2012/09/28/tim-cook-apologizes-for-apple-maps-points-to-competitive-alternatives/

"Zoom CEO apologizes for security problems on public live stream" https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/8/21213847/zoom-ceo-security-privacy-apology-fix-china-videoconference

Official recomendation see: https://hbr.org/2015/09/the-organizational-apology

Nevertheless, from my email archive:

I received this message above from EvN CTO in 2013.

Mature companies know how to handle issues.

I already use old 6.25.1 client, but new 10.x WebApp, which is getting more buggy with every new release. I reported an obvious bug two weeks ago (support and forum), and finally today I got a message, that they aware of the problem, but they have no idea when it will be fixed. LOL! It's a major bug in a basic core function, which means that they don't do proper (any?) Quality Assurance.

Probability, that EvN will fix itself and their apps is getting lower with each week and each new release. EvN had its chance to show positive side, but failed. Sorry...

Fortunately, I'm almost finished with testing of alternative solutions. Within next few weeks my migration strategy should be ready. Then...

3 hours ago, DominikWAW said:

No, moreover the support is not answering questions from Premium users.

I asked about refund one or two months ago. Answer was a kind of denial. Support guy wrote that Premium means accessing server from many devices and having access to premium support, etc., but apps are for free. No apologies. Just common text that EvN will fix it someday in the future.

My subscription ends in few months. I will most probably not renew it. I'm currently testing alternatives and use BackuperyForEvernote to assure safety of my data.

1 hour ago, sqcpro said:

My desktop version with a new release, 10.4.3 for Mac, has restored the performance EN created with the 10.3.7 release fiasco.  But why did the mess happen in the first place?, what level of responsibility does EN accept?, what controls has EN put in place to prevent similar issues in the future?  I agree with you, that without transparency from EN showing problem ownership, specific cause and resolution, we need assume that similar instances will happen without warning.   And this puts my data access and reliability at risk.  So, obviously I'm using EN with extreme caution and seeking more dependable alternatives.  Big on the list is what to do with the 6 years of EN data.  I chose DevonThink a couple of years ago, after the last suggestion that EN could fold imminently.  DT had a decent automated import feature for the EN database, but it' been a while since I've used it to back up EN. 

I tried a Windows version of OneNote a year or so ago and was pleased with it initially.  Easy to integrate with other 365 apps, highly visual, Database/folder/subfolder structure.  This was in a corporate environment on an intranet with plans to collaborate with others.  Since our company did not use Microsoft servers, the version control and syncing didn't work very well, so I dropped it.  But maybe sticking with it for personal use with OneDrive would be good. I'm pretty well locked into 365 since I must have Excel for my older files and business related communication.  If there were a decent way to port my EN data into OneNote, it would be my first alternative choice.

Apple Notes has really advanced, but I've not evaluated it.  I'd be needing easy ability for linking within note, to other notes, to other notebooks, to mail files, to calendar events, to server files (eg. Dropbox & Apple), device files, web pages and then the ability to find the information - a decent search.  I'm not so inclined to need photo editing, speech to text, pdf text recognition.

Good luck on your efforts Kolmir.

Thank you, the same to you!

Links, which I collected about export/import:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/import-notes-from-evernote-into-onenote-2016-for-windows-81805ec8-e8a8-417e-9719-37fed2b7a67c | https://www.onenote.com/import-evernote-to-onenote

https://helpdeskgeek.com/how-to/how-to-migrate-your-evernote-notes-to-microsoft-
https://office-watch.com/2019/new-features-promised-for-onenote/

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/onenote-web-clipper/gojbdfnpnhogfdgjbigejoaolejmgdhk

https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/migrate-from-evernote-to-apple-notes/ | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205793

https://tidbits.com/2018/09/06/tipbits-how-to-move-your-evernote-notes-to-apples-notes/
https://alternativeto.net/software/evernote/

My point of view:

19 hours ago, martinewski said:

The "fast release" updates promised are not happening. The launch of Evernote 10 was clearly forced and it has a poor performance on every platform.

I think the company representatives should address the users (with real information) on what's going on.

There were a lot of requests already on this forum and on social media asking Evernote for honest feedback for last months, but zero answers. Only some blog posts/videos with faked enthusiasm about a new release. Please search this forum for more.

There is a potential risk (educated guess), that EvN is falling apart as a company. Therefore, daily back-ups and looking for alternatives is recommended.

I'm currently testing MS OneNote (full Office 365 version) with pretty good results. There are some limitation, but app is fast and reliable and MS promised lot of  new features in 2021. Moreover, MS Support conditions are far more better.

Others also recommend to try Apple-Note - it's in my to-do list for December.

5 hours ago, gazumped said:

Oh - and no corporate is ever EVER going to say 1) we made a mistake or 2) we're sorry.

It's a false statement. About 8-6 year ago there was a problem with the integrity of EvN servers for about half a day. Then CEO officially apologized for issues and offered an extra year of premium subscription for free for all those affected. QED.

On 11/19/2020 at 4:37 PM, gazumped said:

Hmmn.  Everyone is entitled to their own reaction - mine is:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face

 

Yep. Everybody is looking through own lenses.

Some of or us are more pessimistic, some realistic, and some (too) optimistic. It will be good to respect all perspectives.

There are also unconscious things like for example:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimism_bias
• https://fs.blog/2016/08/commitment-consistency-bias/
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

Currently Search/Find behave in a very strange ways

2 hours ago, gazumped said:

With 250M users (give or take 100 or so Forum members...) it would be pretty epic if they managed it.  And a lot of people would be flocking around to help survivors...

Yep, I hope for too...

However, with the CEO Ian "We don't plan" Small and current very poor product and quality management I don't see a lot of hope. Maybe it's good time for shareholders to hire better managerial staff.

On 11/18/2020 at 3:40 PM, Pa6lo said:

Nie rozumiem jak można było zapomnieć o użytkownikach z Polski.

Evernote powinien zwrócić użytkownikom za wpłatę subskrypcji.

Program nie działa poprawnie więc nie należy się zapłata.!!!!!!

Czy naprawdę jest to wielki problem w kodzie źródłowym programu usunąć ten beznadziejny skrót lub go zmienić ??

Pewnie mają taki burdel, że już stracili kontrolę nad tym co robią. Chyba już czas ze strony udziałowców i użytkowników by powiedzieć szefowi EvN (CEO) i głównemu managerowi produkcji: Wypierdalać!

Wcześniej już cisnąłem ich Support o zwrot kasy, ale używają pokrętnych argumentów, aby się z tego (niehonorowo) wykręcić.

10 hours ago, gazumped said:

Why exactly should I be scared?

Scared isn't probably the best description. However, I share concerns about the high risk of possible failure/collapse. EvN currently behave as a very incompetent company, which is probably incapable to produce something solid, reliable, and last but not least be able to take care of the needs of advanced users.

Moreover, EvN isn't too big to fail.. 😉

Therefore is good to do regular backups and review/test alternatives.

1 hour ago, HeBoIz said:

Now we have EN web version (10.4.2)...
... and still no more infos what for.

@Shane D. Could you please help us with that?

Update. They changed working version to 10.4.2.

Search still doesn't work in FF. Search/Find windows goes into inactive/stealth mode after typing one or two characters.

Previously web app wasn't that bad... All good programmers and QA engineers have finally left the building..?

47 minutes ago, shambala said:

HUGE ISSUES WITH DATA LOSS.

I am writing a ntoe and it just says ''There was an issue, reload please'' ,and my data is lost. I am loosing my temper and I will probably stop using premium and evernote altogether. FIX THIS!

Massive/repeatable data loss is a red-light. It shouldn't happen for note-taking app! It's outrageous.

I remember a situation about 6-8 years ago, when there was once a small data loss because of some failure of EvN servers: CEO officially apologized and offered a free premium membership for a year for everybody who lost data.

Now? They seem to not giving a f... about...

1 hour ago, HeBoIz said:

Whats up? Has web version 10.4.0 been withdrawn meanwhile?
Seems like version 10.3.1 is active again... 

Yep, I see version 10.3.1 too.

With 10.4.0 I eddied few notes yesterday, but most of them seem intact.

What's "new" in this version..? Bugs!

Hi, with the very recent upgrade of Web Application to version 10.4.0 app becomes very unresponsive. Some notes load very slow or don't load at all! I need to click the refresh button in the browser or Ctrl+F5.
I use mostly the newest version of Firefox, MS Windows.

Moreover, search functionality inside notes (Ctrl+F) stopped working properly. WTF?!

It looks like it's getting worse with each new version... Brothel in fire..? 😉

7 hours ago, Barabasz said:

They still don't realize, that we have to completely close Evernote to use other apps because they grab system-wide shortcut!

Seriously: WTF?! I'm speechless...

It sounds like the final proof that current EvN team have no idea about a proper UX design (Software ergonomics).

13 hours ago, Daniel KT said:

Homogenizing is a good thing actually. It makes experience consistent and end result is we should be more productive. 

But this is where I think Evernote missed the point on homogenizing. You're supposed to homogenize by use case. In this case, there are 2 types:

1. Mobile class - IOS / Android - More for consumption

2. Desktop class - Windows / MacOS - More for creation & workflow

If the above is understood clearly, then the decisions on what to homogenize, where and how will be consistent for the sake of end user experience and increasing productivity. 

My 2 cents. 

1. iPad is now a content creation device too.

2. If you go to restaurant, you expect homogenizing for having cutlery (fork, spoon...), waiter, and menu card. However, you expect different dishes and also different "layout" of menu, rooms, etc. In Chinese restaurant you also expect chopsticks. Moreover, each class of restaurant may have a bit different kind of plates - adequate to style...

On 11/8/2020 at 5:43 PM, dharoo777 said:

Hey guys. Iam next one who are pissed off new verion.

In my case even AHK doesnt work.  

BTW, iam abaout 10 years premium user. Maybe a lot has changed since then. 

Can someone recommend other applications?

I'm currently testing OneNote (full Office 365 version). Not bad, but with some limitations. MS promised refinements and new features for 2021.

I'm considering to export and split my EvN notes between OneNote, Apple-Notes and Google-Docs. I will probably decide in February as my EvN subscription ends then.

Whole thread about alternatives

On 11/4/2020 at 1:39 PM, eagle92 said:

Is it possible to change keyboard shortcuts in the new version of the program? In Polish, I need the alt + s shortcut to write. Now, my screenshot is starting. I need immediate help. I can not work, write anything in my language. 

Could anyone help? 

It's a know issue. You can learn more in this thread linked below

Currently, the newest EverNote app is no more a native macOS app. It's almost just a web-app wrapped in quasi-browser called Electron.

Therefore, there is a workaround: instead of EvN 10.x app you can simply open many instances of web-app in multiple tabs of Safari/Chrome... And there will be not much difference in experience between web-browser app and standalone app.

BTW

On 11/3/2020 at 5:22 PM, Biffy7 said:

I recall years ago that the tabs feature can't be implemented on Windows because of a limitation in the windowing system, similar to why Finder on the Mac can have multiple tabs (which I use), and File Explorer on Windows can not.

I use Legacy version on Windows - there is an ability to open each note in a separate window - this can to same extend simulate multi-tab functionality...

35 minutes ago, panhead48 said:

Dear Evernote,

You took all granular control from the user base. Why did you do this? 

We used to be able to go into preferences and set it the way we needed to use it and you took all this away and left us with a piece of junk.

How could you possibly think this was a good a idea? You took a lot out of this program and left it bare. 

Tell me Evernote, what are we paying for then?

I have already asked Support about this, and the answer was something like this: you pay for accessing servers from multiple devices and for ability to report issues as tickets. Apps are for free - take them or leave them...

35 minutes ago, gazumped said:

As is though,  the company opened it's doors,  threw out the welcome mat,  and annoyed a heck of a lot of people.  I'd guess they're desperately trying to get things fixed behind closed doors in hopes the new people they have attracted will make up for the wastage they're going to see at the end of the year.  Meanwhile there are no volunteers to stick their head above the parapet for abuse - they're busy doing what they can;  we'll just have to hope (against recent experience) that the situation can be resolved reasonably satisfactorily,  and quickly.

Yes, but without hardcore restructure of their current processes, without doing intense training for developers, QA, and managers, etc. that can be pretty hard... Moreover, they may even need to hire new CTO or even CEO... 

Their previous approach "We don't plan" failed spectacularly. They need a new one, badly...

16 minutes ago, gazumped said:

??? As Evernote is currently proving,  not listening to customers can cost an organisation a lot of income.

Yep, I fully agree with you. They were thinking (in their Small minds) that they have been right (over forum users), but reality (users/market) proved them wrong...