Jump to content

Wanderling Reborn

Level 3
  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Posts posted by Wanderling Reborn

  1. 2 hours ago, tavor said:

    I don't think even Microsoft was clear on this in their own minds! I think it took Evernote to come along and really define what a note taking app is, the rationale for using one, etc. And then Microsoft was like - "hey, we already have something that does this". But even then, I don't think they appreciated the potential - or maybe they decided it would just be a minor player compared to their heavy hitters and deployed marketing resources accordingly. They have the luxury of slow playing this because even if OneNote dies tomorrow, it doesn't affect their bottom line. And their user numbers don't really suffer from lack of big marketing push because everyone on Office 365 has it, and students get it for free, etc. They are in the enviable position of just trying to hit singles, knowing there will always be more turns at bat, while most of the competitors are swinging for the fences because they live or die based on this one product. 

    We see somewhat similar behavior by Google. Keep has been around a very long time, in note taking app years, and they've really slow played that product. But they can step on the accelerator anytime they want. And if they neglect it, they still have the option of focusing on it next year or the year after that . . . 

    MS' problem is that it's a very squarely business oriented company, which has no idea how to market to consumers, doesn't really care for the consumer market, and is losing because of this big time, over and over again. Just look at them having a full featured, modern mobile OS years before Google and Apple, yet doing nothing about it for years until it was too late.

  2. 4 hours ago, tavor said:

    On a related note, do you think power users evangelizing for EN has increased on decreased in recent years? Years ago, I was evangelizing to close family and friends. A few years ago, after a continued pattern of releases with poor QA that broke user workflows, I could no longer in good conscience recommend the product even though I use it every day.

    Perhaps a comparison would shed some light on your point. Here are search trends for Evernote and OneNote over the last 10 years:


    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2010-12-13 2020-12-13&geo=US&q=evernote,onenote

    From my perspective, those trends line up with what I experienced. OneNote has been around forever, but never generated much excitement. It's been Steady Eddie, and with Office365 including it for free, it continues to soldier on. Evernote was a rocketship by comparison, and that trend peak in the first half of the 2010s corresponds to a time when there were so many people evangelizing for EN, a time when Evernote not only lapped OneNote, but defined the space, even though it came years after OneNote.

    It's harder to do a good trend search for some of the other players in the note taking space because many of the names are not unique to the software - e.g., bear, joplin, nimbus, etc., and so you have trend results showing popularity even before these apps were launched.

    MS never really marketed Onenote. Even for the past few years, as they poured more attention into the service, especially the mobile side of things and the abortive W10 app, they’ve been doing a piss poor job promoting it. And before that, tens of millions of people had it preinstalled on their work and business computers along with the rest of Office, and had zero idea of what it was or what to use it for (or even that they had it). MS had really dropped the ball there. 

  3. 3 hours ago, Piotas said:

    You compare open source project with billion-dollar software giant?

    Microsoft already tried to kill OneNote 2016 and replace it with OneNote for Windows 10 - a dumbed down, online-only simplified app.

    There is clear analogy between Evernote v6 and v10.

    Only recently Microsoft decided to continue support OneNote 2016 as part of Office 365 subscription, because, well, new version suck ass - just like Evernote v10.

    What's wrong with comparing software ? At the end of the day, it's only user experience that counts. Just because Joplin is open source, doesn't mean that it's providing a comparable user experience for the majority of users - there will always be some people for whom some of the features are super important.

    As to Microsoft - they gave a clear timeline for Onenote 2016 being supported through November 2025. (Although it seems that they had reversed the direction altogether and once again are actively developing the desktop version, due to strong user pushback).

    I really dislike Microsoft's propensity to kill or drastically change ecosystems that their users are reliant upon, and I got burned with them more than once - Windows Mobile, Wunderlist, MS Money. But they always provided an early warning, a sunset date, and a path out. So, at the very least, Evernote team should clearly communicate their plan for extending support for the legacy version - right now, they are basically avoiding commitment, which is bad from users' perspective. "We will support this version until Summer 2021" is, at least, some form of guarantee. 

    • Like 2
  4. 3 hours ago, DTLow said:

    I have a full offline copy of data on my Mac
    The data is backed up weekly using the export feature in html format    
    This data is not useless; it's functional 

    >>withdrawing the classic version

    This would be the Evernote Legacy product.    
    The app software is installed on my Mac and will continue to function without Evernote support

    >>The new version is totally unusable

    This would be the Version 10 product; a work-in-progress     
    imho It's not ready for general use.    
    In their release notes, Evernote advises   If your workflow depends on these features, you can continue to use our legacy apps.

    For how long ? Are they making a commitment to maintaining the legacy version (and this means fixing any incompatibilities with future OS releases) until there’s parity with the current version ?  Is there a sunset date ?     

    Our notes (my wife’s, mainly) are very simple and mainly used on iOS, so the redesign isn’t a big deal for us. But it does suck, to be honest.

  5. So, I went through the list of alternatives. The list is good, the ratings all seem extremely subjective. Basically, the ratings are based on author's personal preferences.

    There's simply no way Joplin should be rated above Onenote. It has no OCR, no handwriting, it must be put inside an encrypted container if you want to protect your data on desktop, and its iOS version is very severely crippled. There's much more, I won't get into everything. This is not to say that it won't work for some people, but I would never rate it that high. 

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  6. 3 hours ago, rts said:

    I've been pointing people to 25guy's list of Evernote alternatives. The short answer for those happy to live in Apple's walled garden seems to be DEVONthink. For the rest of us our best choice greatly depends on the features we consider essential to our workflow. My use of tags and text formatting is rudimentary when compared to the way others here use EN, for example, so Joplin is at the top of my evaluation list. Others in this thread have found Joplin's lack of <X> to be a deal breaker and so are looking at other options. I have yet to hear of an alternative to EN that won't take some adjustment and/or compromise by the user.

    Then it wouldn’t be an alternative, would it ?

    My wife still uses EN because she’s so accustomed to it. I use ON because it’s unmatched for work notes if your company is on Exchange, and it only makes sense to use the same workflow for personal notes. In the end, any decent system will work, but it requires adjustment.

  7. 5 hours ago, Piotas said:

    Yes, search is already fixed or your issues are iPhone-specific. It highlights words in current note OR folder/ALL

    Sharing a note to a non-Joplin user? I would use HTML export instead.

    BTW I just tried export of a note with pics in 1.4.19 and output DOES contains pics via resource subdir, referred by MarkDown file.

    2020-12-03 23_13_34-Joplin.png

    Just downloaded the latest Joplin for iOS.
    1. Yes, the higligthing of searched word is fixed. 
    2. No, it’s still only exporting plaintext, dropping any attachments or pictures.

    So, the iOS version is still severely limited.

    Sharing HTML with other people is not going to work for e.g. meeting notes. But I assume the desktop version supports PDF export ?

  8. On 11/26/2020 at 3:29 PM, ripwit said:

    I've moved to Joplin Notes (https://joplinapp.org/). It has a good import from ENEX. Open source, free, active community.

    Main reason for me was not trusting an external service (perhaps especially Evernote) with my data.

    With Joplin you can decide where to store your notes DB, cloud and/or local. Encrypted and end-to-end.

    Works on Windows, IOS, Android. No web interface since there is no server.

    I don't know why some companies decide to shoot themselves in the proverbial foot (or other body part). EN apparently did.


    Joplin’s data is not encrypted on the desktop. Only on mobile. (It can be encrypted if you put it in e.g. a Veracrypt container).

    When I tested it there wasn’t a way to search inside a note. Search would bring you a list of notes but then you had to find that text in each of them by scrolling. This may have been fixed since.

    On iOS, Joplin did not add itself to the Share functionality. You could not send e.g. a screenshot to Joplin - you had to save it first, open Joplin, then browse and add as an attachment, very time consuming and inefficient.

    Also, on iOS, it can only export plain text markdown files. All images are lost. If I want to send a note to someone, and it contains images, I can’t (perhaps from the desktop version but I use iPhone and iPad 90% of time).

    Overall, unless you mainly use plaintext notes and don’t mind Markdown, it’s not a good Evernote replacement - too limited. This is of course just one opinion.

    • Like 3
  9. 20 hours ago, DTLow said:

    There are many external options to encrypt data    
    After encryption, I store the data in Evernote as file attachments to notes

    The reason I don’t store it in EN or ON is that there’s just fewer extra steps required when working with this data.

    Also, I can still have it indexed and searched using DocFetcher, with index residing inside the same encrypted container, so it’s only accessible when this container is mounted.



  10. I keep my sensitive notes in OneDrive encrypted with Cryptomator. (Can be any location, I just happened to have O365).

    After Equifax, I don’t trust any single company to keep my data safe. Unless it’s zero knowledge encryption, I assume f’ups will happen. The question isn’t “if” but “when”.

    Even Cryptomator is not a 100% guarantee. But at least, it’s far less likely that the same nefarious actors will have access to both Evernote servers and Cryptomator exploits.

  11. On 10/1/2020 at 10:43 PM, bigtelco said:

    Notability is a better handwriting experience than virtually anything else out there and has superior drawing tools.  It also has the ability to directly annotate documents, to add directly to an existing note, to resize and edit photos, and it does OCR.  The only thing it really lacks is organizational tools: linking, tags and a web clipper.   So, her process is probably the best of both worlds for now, unless she switches to a more integrated experience like OneNote or Apple Notes. 

    The tags aren’t an issue as I am using plaintext tags everywhere and she’s been catching on with this method too. 

    Web clipper works fairly well, actually. Are you referring to Notability for Mac? She’s using the iOS version, and it has a decent enough web clipper (you can send a webpage from Safari). It comes in as a searchable background image (or perhaps PDF).

    It also supports hyperlinks, but not between notes.

    What it really lacks is the ability to attach files, and web access. 

  12. 12 hours ago, bigtelco said:

    According to the Wacom website: „To use your stylus, you need to download a Wacom stylus compatible app that must be paired with your stylus.“.  I doubt that Evernote 10 is a Wacom-compatible app on the iPad. 

    Well, then Wacom’s out i of question, too. Besides, Apple Pencil is great everywhere else.

    For now, she’s been taking notes in Notability and exporting to EN. This means that she has to edit them in Notability as well, do not the best setup.


  13. 2 hours ago, bigtelco said:

    I can write with my finger, so I am assuming that a capacitive stylus will work.  But, this is a big step back from Apple Pencil.  I am still hoping Evernote will tell us something....

    I don't believe there's any smart capacitive stylii (with palm rejection at least) for iPad. Bamboo, as far as I know, uses the same technology as Apple pencil.

  14. Glad to see it’s not just me. I don’t typically use Evernote - my wife does - and she didn’t have a pencil, so she never ran into this problem before. I just got her the 1st gen AP, and it just doesn’t work, skipping more strokes than it registers. Works great in every other app. Reading through this forum, it looks like this issue impacts both generations of Apple Pencil ? Does it also happen with 3rd party ones, like Wacom Bamboo ? I can still return the AP and get a different brand for her.

    • Like 1
  15. On 8/15/2020 at 8:15 PM, PinkElephant said:

    And quite easy to resolve: The Admin just puts a keylogger and a screengrabber on your work computer, and after the next time you opened your vault you will find out how long the superencrypted vault stayed superencrypted on a Computer out of your Control. No longer than it takes to read this forum post, be assured.

    It is very simple: To use private resources during not-so-private time, use a private device over a network that is not under control of the guy who signs your paycheck.


  16. Yes, scanning large number of documents requires quick and accurate auto-crop, auto shutter (app takes photo by itself the moment it recognizes page boundary), and accurate B&W creation (no blown areas or too dark areas). TurboScan gets it all, probably Readdle Scan does too (didn’t try it yet, thanks for the tip @PinkElephant). The latest version of Scanbot (they renamed it and made subscription but people who paid for the old version retained their functionality) looks like it’s also there now - it used to be slower from what I remember. Genius Scan is just almost there. But I’ll take any of them before I use a hardware scanner ever again.

    • Like 1
  17. 4 hours ago, CalS said:

    Hence the ...if your employer allows it... bit.  Personally I would not have any personal data in any form on a work computer.  But the OP asked...

    Well, it depends on the field, company, individuals involved etc. An employee trying to install a supposedly unbreakable encrypted volume on a company’s computer (that’s I assume connected to the corporate network) is going to make some more protective / paranoid people interested. Is he stealing IP? Does he keep porn on it ? Is he exposing us to any kind of  liability? Even if the issue is easily explained, that’s not the kind of attention I’d want to attract.

  18. I used to have a flatbed scanner with a feeder for multiple sheets, but it was still a hassle and I found myself using my phone all the time, because I could do it anywhere and not be tied to one room.

    My favorite scan app is TurboScan for iOS, it’s suited very well for quick scanning of multiple pages in B&W. The rest are either not that good for auto cropping, or don’t always get a crisp B&W scan (especially if the original is not B&W or lighting is poor), or take too many extra steps. GeniusScan is also very good, but isn’t as fast and accurate in auto cropping.

    Another advantage of using a phone is that it’s very easy to combine different sources, e.g. a  paper bill with a screenshot of a payment via bank app, or a manual for an appliance with photos of it set to specific settings. All of this can of course be done on a computer, but with more steps and delays.

    • Thanks 1
  19. I had no problems using “dumb” felt tip stilii to take many pages of handwritten notes. While I strongly prefer iPads over Androids, there’s workable software in both environments. I do have an Apple Pencil now, and while it’s certainly a nicer writing device, it’s not a necessity, especially when using a zoomed area for handwriting that many note taking apps have. A short note can easily be taken on any iPhone or iPad. A used 6s is below $200 in the US, and would still be a perfectly serviceable phone even today (I’ve used one until spring). I’d couple it with Notability.

  20. On 7/28/2020 at 6:01 PM, DTLow said:

    Instead of sharing individual notes, share notebooks

    This is not always feasible. Actually one thing I absolutely hate about Onenote (which I use extensively at work) is the inability to share individual notes. There's information that, as a project manager, I can't share with the rest of the team - financial data, some contract issues, some sensitive data belonging to the customers, etc. Not everyone in the project team has the same level of access. 


    On 7/24/2020 at 5:57 AM, reniwqwil5 said:


    I found Evernote, through thesecretweapon.org which is an organization method that has really helped me manage tasks. It's a glorified To-Do list.

    It hinges on setting up Notebooks and Tagging Notes a certain way in Evernote.

    As an individual, it has really helped me professionally. I was really struggling with dropping small tasks through the cracks and having it come back round to bite me.

    I also had mild success implementing it between my wife. At one point we were selling a house and moving across country. We pretty successfully used it simply by logging into the same account.

    Currently I manage a small team of 5 people, and am trying to figure out how to implement the same proceedure between the five people.

    The sharing feature seems awful. When shared, the tags don't transfer, and shared notes can't be moved into any notebook other than the Shared with Me notebook.

    If I share a task with a team member, It doesn't get moved into the Completed notebook, when it's completed.

    Any thoughts/advice?

    To @reniwqwil5 - if you're still checking this thread - I firmly believe, based on years of personal experience, that tasks belong in a program dedicated to task management. Evernote, Onenote, a mindmapping program, even a simple text file are great for brainstorming, but once a concrete task is identified, it needs to go into a service (app, program) that was specifically designed to handle tasks. Not mere checklists. This service should have the ability to assign due dates and reminders to tasks, delegate them to other team members, search and filter by project or tags or due dates, sync to mobile devices so that I could get a reminder anywhere. The key to not letting small tasks fall through the cracks is to (a) write all of them down and (b) set up reminders. 

    I use plaintext tags everywhere (just because they are going to work across the board with different software). They are very easy to add while typing by using automation software like AutoHotKey. I then copy the individual tasks to the task managing system (also can be easily sped  up with AHK). I use Outlook on Windows and MS ToDo on my iPad / phone (they use the same data), but only because our company is using Exchange. Any decent task management service (e.g. Trello that @PinkElephantsuggested above) would work as long as it supports reminders, due dates, and task delegation. (Although Outlook is extremely good).  From there, I set up due dates and reminders, and delegate tasks to other people.

    A typical text I would type in a meeting would look something like this:

    Proposal #tgDue end of the month need an estimate from #tgJeff #tgFollowUp #tgAct 

    Typing these tags is just a three letter combo thanks to automation (e.g. #tgFollowUp is created when I type qqu followed by space, qqa = #tgAct etc).

    After the meeting is over, I copy all of the note lines that have #tgAct in them into Outlook tasks. This can be done with a single click in Onenote, or automated using AHK if you're using some other program. I assign due dates and reminders as needed, and delegate whatever needs to be delegated (hence #tgJeff and #tgFollowUp). I then erase all #tgAct tags. Every now and then I search for #tgAct across my notes to make sure I didn't miss any. 

    This way, all tasks get captured and I am reminded of them. After that, ***** up is entirely my problem...



    • Thanks 1
  21. 6 hours ago, DTLow said:



    >>I can get most of functionality of Evernote (some is missing, some is gained)

    I see no gain; just missing functionality


    You don't see the gain in using common file types like spreadsheets directly without an external wrapper? Like, the ability to directly edit and mark up without having to undergo multiple steps? Real time collaboration on same document ? (Works great with OneDrive). Quickly sharing files? All of this while using multiple devices on multiple platforms (W10, Linux, Mac, iOS)? Saving notes / data in native format? Moving from one service to another without any modification whatsoever?

    6 hours ago, DTLow said:

    >>as a common file type


    Still wondering which "common file type" to use    
    I currently use html for notes,    
    but attachments retain their native formats


    You must not be sharing notes and records with others too much :)

    By "common" I mean PDF, XLSX, DOCX, JPEG, PNG, TXT.

    Webpages are confusing to many people when used as documents.

  22. I've said this before. In the times when every cloud provider has indexed search and image OCR, and there's plenty of standalone apps like DocFetcher for those concerned with privacy, using a dedicated, proprietary wrapper for your data (be it Evernote, Onenote, Joplin etc.) does not make sense… at least to me.


    90% of my data is in file folders on Onedrive (only using it because I am paying for Office365). 5% of the data I consider sensitive is in an encrypted volume with its own encrypted search index. The remaining 5% are short-term notes - and here's where programs like Evernote or Onenote come in handy. 

    With generous use of plaintext tags, and common file formats (docx, xlsx, pdf) I can get most of functionality of Evernote (some is missing, some is gained) without ever having to worry about losing access, losing service, moving to another service, backups, sharing with others, encryption, compatibility, etc. Evernote / Onenote / whatever are great for capturing data and maintaining "live" notes, but for long term storage, it is exported into an indexed online folder as a common file type.

    • Like 1
  • Create New...