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Wanderling Reborn

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Posts posted by Wanderling Reborn

  1. On 3/22/2019 at 10:59 AM, IBaghdadi said:

    I've been using Evernote for several years for my small team, mostly the free plan, and mostly as an automated notes repository. With my team expanding and with more funds, we've been seriously considering increasing the centrality of Evernote in our work processes, and upgrading to a paid plan.

    Which is when I logged into Evernote web, and within 20 minutes decided that what I need is a way to migrate my team and all my notes out of Evernote and into a better tool, one that's designed by a company that respects its users more.

    You see, I recently purchased a Chromebook, which became my main device. Which means I'll be using the web version most. I was pleased to see it's gotten a major update, but when it came to using it, it's just unbearably slow to an unusable degree. I don't want to wait for minutes every time I want to add a note or every time I want to switch from one note to the next.

    Add to that, there are just far more full featured options on the market now. I won't mention any here (I'm not here to plug any alternatives), just noting that new tools now have universal embeds, beautiful & smooth UI, fast operation, and no bugs. Some even have full-featured task management, spreadsheets/databases, etc on top. For a tool that needs to do just *one* thing and do it right and fast, Evernote is just very mediocre.

    Come to think of it, this is what made me stop using Evernote on a daily basis in the first place (preferring to simply make it an automated notes repository) several years ago - the very sluggish operation and the terrible UI/UX. I hoped all these years that it'll get better, but it only got worse.

    I didn't have to write this post btw, had Evernote had the foresight to allow non-paying users file technical reports/complaints, but then you expect me to pay *first* and then ask you questions about basic workablility/operation of your tool, which is frankly ridiculous.

    Now actively looking for alternatives to Evernote and for ways to migrate all 14k+ notes out.


    Why use the web version when ChromeOS now supports running Android apps ?

  2. 4 hours ago, DTLow said:

    I have one small folder for esential documents.
    Any other  paperwork gets scanned and discarded asap - I use the camera on my iPad

    Same for me. I used to hate with sheer, burning, red hot passion having to deal with freaking piles and piles and piles of endless paperwork. Credit card bills... mortgages.. kids’ vaccinations... bank statements... remodeling documents.... especially one-off bits of paper. Where is that letter from two years ago with names and phone numbers of our HOA board members ? It’s somewere in the “Home” folder.. too bad that the “Home” folder is actually four large handing files literally bursting at the seams... 

    Getting a phone out, taking scans of recent documents, filing and shredding them takes at most an hour a month, combined. I spend more time over the course of my life wiping my butt :)

    Now when I was using a flatbed scanner, it was still a chore. But with modern phone scanning apps, the process is super fast and simple.

  3. So, the only reason I am still using Onenote and Evernote is the convenience of taking notes on mobile devices and keeping them with related files.

    Some time ago, I moved all of my data to file storage, placed in OneDrive. I used plaintext tags wherever possible to tag it, and relied on OS global search (Windows indexing, Spotlight, OneDrive search, depending on what platform I was using at the time). 

    The files that I wanted to protect went into a Cryptomator encrypted set of folders, and I used an open source indexing program to search on Windows. The program and its index were saved inside encrypted storage. (This didn’t let me search on mobile, but I rarely had to because of highly organized folder structure).

    For notes, I used Word documents.

    So, I would have a directory called “Car abc” with all service records, manuals, scans of title and registration, loan documents etc, pertaining to that car, and a Word doc with notes and photos and hyperlinks. The way OS Indexing and cloud services’ OCR evolved in the past several years, with this setup I didn’t miss Evernote or Onenote at all.

    If I only used computers, that would be it. No special services, no extra wrappers between me and my data, all files in common formats that can be simply copied or moved instead of exporting.

    Where this setup didn’t work quite as well, and the main reason I went back to a dedicated app, was on mobile. Stupidly, there was no single iOS app that I was able to find, optimized for quick note taking in a common document format (Word, preferably), supporting hyperlinks and images, and allowing me to quickly save and open individual files in different directories. Word for iOS or any other app that I tried was taking too many steps before I could start writing, or only worked with records in a specific preset folder, or used a proprietary file format that couldn’t be edited in Windows. 

    In the end I went back to Onenote / Evernote because I could just open a note and start writing and not worry about manually saving it in the same folder that other relevant files resided.

    If I was only using desktop OS, this wound not be an issue at all - I can start or open a document in a current folder very quickly using Word or OpenOffice Writer. It’s just an iOS thing.

    If I ever find a way to take a quick Word note in iOS, I will go back to this setup again. It’s future proof.

  4. 2 hours ago, newbi said:

    1] As I have repeatedly mentioned in this thread..i don't trust any cloud service safe enough to store my bank account details. Servers can be hacked/personal detail may be used in probably any country. Secondly..I have mentioned servers being located in China is a point of concern.

    So are you going to audit every single note and bit of personal info you save on their servers? I’d rather avoid known problems, there’s plenty of possible ones already.


    2] I agree, Linux is not the most popular of the desktop operating systems out there. But if you read this zd.net article you will come to know actually millions of users still prefer to use Linux. [ https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-many-linux-users-are-there-anyway/ ]

    I wonder if maintaining a linux app is not financially viable for such a popular company as Evernote, how come others are doing it.

    There’s not that many “others”. Plenty of open source developers supporting an open source OS, but as far as commercial software and services, the access is rather patchy. And it really depends on the individual companies’ direction, access to resources, and culture. I am running a Mint desktop on an older machine I keep in the basement, just so that I could do some work there sometimes. So I am well aware of both the possibilities and limitations.


    3] As i said before, i probably store less than 1% of my 32 GB data in Evernote servers, rest are in local notebooks. As you have mentioned of Springpad, u must know Springpad before being closed gave ample time to download your notes. Anyway anyone should keep back up while using any of these services.

    Oh I know that well enough, I had about two thousand notes that had to be painstakingly transfered. I was not talking about losing your data, but about the PITA and effort required to move it to another system.

    In the end, it’s your decision and of course I respect it even if I am hesitant to go that route myself.


  5. Some very subjective comments...

    1) I would never trust a data collection service from China. It is *the* industrial espionage capital of the world. Even worse, with its culture of corruption and using official position for personal enrichment, your data may be misused in many different ways. At least I don’t expect NSA agents to be stealing money from my bank account.

    2) The problem with developing for Linux isn’t that the users of that OS are not paying for services, it’s that there’s very few of them compared to other OS. Plus, there is already web access. The number of paying Linux users may not be enough to offset the cost of porting the service to the new platform and maintaining yet another client, especially with the service already struggling somewhat.

    3) I am very cautious about moving gigabytes of data to a small and relatively new player. They tend to collapse rather suddenly and leave a mess behind for their users to sort out (does anyone remember Springpad ?)

    • Like 2

  6. 3 hours ago, DTLow said:

    Actual deadlines are also addressed using the reminder date.

    I also use a title prefix to control the sequence of notes in project reviews
    For example:
           -Project Master Note
           ++Task (next action)
           +ΩTask (completed)
           +ΩTask (completed)
           Miscellaneous note
           Miscellaneous note

    That’s  a great way, too. I mainly tried to come up with a universal method that works on most systems and apps, got tired of having to change my workflow habits every time an app or service I’ve come to rely on changes, gets sold, or goes out of business. Due dates and plaintext tags work on any task manager, and alphabetical sort is common (if not universal). Everything else is icing on the cake...

    I had to jump through the proverbial hoops a couple years ago when Informant got sold and the new owners jacked up the price and introduced a bug infested new version. Now that the same thing started happening with Toodledo, I decided that enough was enough, and that the only way forward was to come up with  a task managing workflow that could work with the lowest common denominator, rather than constantly trying to find a rare service that supported the extended set of features that I relied on (like Start dates). Basically, the challenge is to achieve same complex results using the simplest tools and methods possible. And the solution is usually very simple but it requires breaking old habits and adapting new concepts - easier said than done after doing this for twenty years...

  7. Evernote/ Onenote and any other type of information manages are great for high level project planning and task generation (and for me, a mindmap type app is even better),  but to actively manage tasks without missing important deadlines, you really need to use a dedicated task manager. There are gazillion of them out there.

    My approach to not letting tasks to end up in a forgotten pile is to assign a Due date to every task, then re-access that task on that date. I may start working on that task, postpone it to another date, or even delete it if no longer relevant; but this system will not allow me to just forget about it.  Every morning I go through the list of tasks with today’s date and re-assign new dates (using my best judgment) until the only tasks left are the ones I will work on. It takes me a whopping five minutes

    And for project tasks that have actual real deadlines which need to be tracked, I add them to the title using “YY MM DD” format, so I can arrange them alphabetically if needed.


  8. Well, Onenote Desktop is supported for the next seven years, the dumbed down (for now) App version isn’t even getting installed on our machines. And the features are getting migrated over, e.g. it now supports collapsible outlines .

    But that’s not the point. Whatever the seasoned users of similar services think of Onenote doesn’t matter, they are a minority. The majority of users haven’t practiced any data management system outside of individual files and folders,  but now are being exposed to Onenote at work via MS’ aggressive marketing and IT departments starting to implement and promote that software, which they have already been paying for anyway as part of MS Office.  And when people are using Onenote at work on a daily basis, they naturally start using it at home as well - it’s free and familiar and they can use the same workflow and techniques they learned at work. It’s the browser wars all over again - it’s not the best browser that wins, it’s the one with best exposure to the masses.

    To counter that kind of exposure, you need money and a large established user base, and a competitive product. Google has both money and users, but they lack product capable of completing with Onenote (Keep is just glorified sticky notes). Evernote has product but no money or market pressense.  Seems like a no brainer to me...

  9. The post quoted at the bottom of my reply.

    It doesn’t really matter how the individual features of Onenote compare to Evernote (it’s a mixed bag either way); what matters is the massive push for integration of Onenote into OS and business workflow, that has been happening in the past couple of years. Evernote doesn’t have the resources to counter that, and Google doesn’t have adequate tools to offer. So the latest developments seem interesting...

  10. It doesn’t really matter.

    What does matter is that Onenote is (a) integrated in Windows and Office and (b) there has been a tremendous push in the last couple of years to actually entice the corporate users to actually *use* it. At least that’s what I see. I work for a major corporation and we used to have Onenote installed with Office for ever, yet very few people even knew what it was. But in the past couple of years we started to get bombarded with free seminars, classes, workflow examples, and now there’s a fairly high percentage of people and teams using it for project tracking. The same thing is happening all across the industry, especially as IT departments are slowly rolling out Windows 10. Onenote is rapidly becoming a staple in the workplace, and this means people are more likely to start using it at home.

    To stay competitive, Google really needs a corresponding tool for businesses that use Google services instead of Microsoft, and all they have now is Keep... and Evernote doesn’t have the resources to break into the corporate market.

    Just thinking out loud...

    On 11/4/2018 at 12:03 AM, The Ubiquitou sAnomaly said:

    Omg .. I can't handle this :D. This is so true.


  11. 2 hours ago, noteaddict48 said:

    If 15 % of the total workforce are thought to be of no use (getting the sack right now) then, according to my own experience, the remaining staff, respectively the Indians amongst them (Chiefs can be discounted) will be loaded with extra work. 

    No one can tell me that the tasks ahead of Evernote can be done with fewer numbers. Are the 54 job cuts necessary to finish the year "without burning cash"?

    In other words, would Evernote have ended the year in the red if staff had been kept? Depending on who is laid off, 15 % payroll + overheads, can be a significant amount. 

    Not so long ago I remember an article in which the CEO emphasised that they were recruiting.

    So, is Evernote on the point of a merger or a joint venture? 

    Would that be one way of keeping business going without having to raise cash, would also warrant the Elephant's  "exquisite" redesign, etc. plus the resignation of 4 or 5? executives prior to the latest news (maybe with golden handshake)?

    (Nobody needs to tell me how Evernote processes and stores data, even as a basic user I got the idea. I would like to stress to me the EN webclipper is state-of-the-art -Chrome primary browser, Firefox secondary, Edge just a compulsory app with Win 10). 




    It has often been said that the best solution to Evernote’s financial woes would be to get bought by Google, who are still missing a decent user data management app. MS has OneNote, Apple has Notes (not half bad but only make sense if you are using Apple across the board), Google has Keep... which just doesn’t cut it.

    • Like 1

  12. If anything, it's the simultaneous departure of four top executives that looks like a cause for concern. Whether they didn't see any future for themselves at the company, or there's a shakeup because things didn't go according to strategy, I don't know and won't speculate.

    However, at it's current price structure, and given the number of deeply entrenched long time paid users who have nowhere else to go,  I'd think the service should be able to survive for a long time. Unless they overspend or have financial obligations they can't meet. Again, I won't speculate since I don't know.

    Evernote is easy to get info out of in somewhat usable format, so I wouldn't be super worried either way.

  13. 5 hours ago, DTLow said:

    Is this an ON or Evernote comment?

    I use tables for my Evernote notes; multi column, combined cells, colour background
    This provides a great layout for the note.  The default note layout is sequential, top to bottom.

    Also the size of pdfs and images is constrained by the cell width.

    It was an ON comment but this probably applies to Evernote as well... it’s been a while since I used the Tables in EN, so I am not sure what features it supports. 

    Here’s an example... it’s a template I made for engineering proposal layout review meetings. The meeting notes are on the left, the drawing files and comments are saved in the table on the right.  It’s positioned in such a way that when I print it to a PDF, the notes are on one page and the table on another, so I can send just the meeting notes out without the proposal comments that I may want to keep to myself. The todo and follow up items are tagged with built-in tags (although I may use plaintext tags for that when I feel like it). I may have more than one table, sometimes I use a project-wide ToDo list table that can be sorted by Start date / Due date / Priority / assignee ... it all depends on scope of a particular project, and just how involved and organized I want this to be. 

    Tables are one of my favorite features for organizing data. They make it so much easier to work with records.


    • Thanks 1

  14. The biggest advantage of the way it handles PDFs - from my perspective - is the ability to neatly place related PDFs inside a table. Really helps to visually organize project data while keeping it somewhat compact.

    But, it's web clipper isn't nearly as good as Evernote's.

    In the end, it's all about what makes sense to you... both are great tools.

  15. 15 minutes ago, TK0047 said:

    I agree, that is a huge advantage. I am trying to use more Microsoft Teams with my team and I just added the OneNote tab to a channel. I can easily see the benefit there by itself. You can have project notes that everybody can see and edit etc. 

    I used to use OneNote and I think it is a great note taking app but I think it falls short for storing documents and tagging for my use at least. I will continue to play with it under the Microsoft Teams tab to see if it has changed a lot since my times back in 2013ish.

    You see, everyone's tastes are different :)

    I think that for storing documents (attachments), Onenote is actually better than most other similar apps. They can be placed anywhere, accompanied with notes, etc. You're not being forced into a particular layout. And I use plaintext in-line tags, so finding them works the same in any system (I generally dislike having to assign pre-canned tags from a menu).

    What irritates me about Onenote are other things, slow sync (although it's been improving lately), no built-in alerts (I am not going to create an Outlook tasks for every reminder, besides I can't do it on iOS anyway), the whole concept of "Printouts", the fact that if I annotate a screenshot or a PDF printout inside Onenote the ink isn't grouped with underlying image so I better not move it accidentally,  and many other small annoyances.

    But as I said.. I am no longer looking at it as the ultimate single tool, but something that supports my overall workflow. If I was using Google ecosystem on a daily basis at work, I'd use it for personal stuff as well and make it work. Makes things significantly easier.

    • Like 1

  16. 5 hours ago, Mr Jumbo Guy said:

    Could be but I like to get into my notes and constantly add stuff. So everytime when I want to add stuff, it gets boring to first unlock the PDF file with the pass and then do this and that, right?

    Also, does evernote have local saving option only? 

    I will still say I like it more than OneNote but the company decided to...

    And that’s the key... Office and Exchange are very deeply entrenched in the business world, and Onenote is very deeply integrated into MS ecosystem. I can join a meeting on Skype via Outlook and with a single click start a new note with entire meeting information (and attachments) already embedded into it and linked to the meeting in Calendar. That is very convenient. 

    Six months ago, very few people at my company even knew of Onenote. It was installed with Office and never used. Now, pretty much everyone’s on it - and starting to use it for their personal stuff (I had to explain to four co-workers over two days how MS HUP program works). The deep integration into the key components of the business process and accessibility from everywhere is the key.

    Evernote can certainly get there, too. They have a great framework already. The issue is with getting their foot at the door in the business world, and enticing employees into getting a personal account via some kind of a discount program of their own.

  17. I actually went back to Onenote. Just after I made my original comment, our company finally implemented the ability to access Onenote project notebooks from mobile devices, and this was a game changer.

    Onenote’s tight integration with Exchange, Skype, Teams, Outlook Tasks etc. just makes it too valuable of a project tool.  Now that we can finally access our data from our phones and tablets, we’ve fully embraced Onenote at work and have developed a project workflow around it.

     Using it for hours daily for the past two months and having it on my phone and tablet  forced me to go back to using it for my personal data as well, the advantages of applying the same habits, workflow and software tools for both work and personal stuff far outweigh the issues I had with it. I also made some key changes to the way I organize the data, basically simplifying the entire process as much as I can. I have the full version of Office 2016 through HUP program, so I should be all set for the next several years, hopefully by then MS will migrate enough features over to UWP.

    Could I use Evernote instead to achieve the same end result ? Very possibly.

    In the end, if I learned anything, it’s that the tool is not as important as the methods and workflow, as long as that tool is “good enough”.

  18. 23 hours ago, DTLow said:

    Evernote's long term storage of data is free; you just require a basic account.  In theory, this is "lifetime"

    My data backups do include a weekly full html export.  
    - If Evernote goes dark for whatever reason, I have access to my data..  
    - It provides an alternative search mechanism.

    I was not talking about the cost, but long term survivability of product / service.

    HTML is not going to be dead anytime soon.

  19. On 7/4/2018 at 10:19 AM, Jake123 said:

    I am getting close to retirement... What about a lifetime charge, but add a small surcharge... like $300 and $25 per year thereafter?

    Any “lifetime” membership can and will be terminated at some point. Service companies that offer lifetime memberships are typically in dire need of funding. Otherwise, it simply never makes sense from business perspective.

    Your proposal is basically “Pay full price for 4 years upfront, then less than third of the price for as long as the user wants”. Worded this way, does this seem like a good deal for the company ?

    Anyone worrying about long term storage of their data that has personal historic or sentimental value but is no longer acitvely updated should just export it to html. This format is never going obsolete - not in our lifetimes. And it can easily be searched.

    • Like 1

  20. On 6/24/2018 at 11:43 PM, Don Dz said:

    Currently the only somewhat reasonable substitute I find to be an intelligent use of files together with Windows Explorer, plus a few Autohotkey scripts.  I have been surprised how fast Explorer can be, especially if you know how to set the indexing service correctly, search is nearly instantaneous (on my fast Windows computer anyways).  Theoretically one could sync with Dropbox to other devices. 

    The only issue I would not be satisfied about is note (file) linking, I heavily depend on linking, and while html can handle file linking just fine, creating it and maintaining could be a bit burdensome, though browser bookmarks exports could help with this.

    One advantage (or disadvantage depending on how you look at it) is that the responsibility for file protection against corruption is yours.  This limits the extent of any damage, but makes it very hard to detect hidden problems.

    While this system would probably work best with text files, it can work with any file supported by Explorer (text, PDF, Office, etc), that is, as far as file content, Explorer can of course find any file name.

    I've been using this solution for a year or so. It works excellent if you primarily use desktops. Where it is starting to run into issues is mobile. There's no quick way to take notes complete with images and links without getting into some proprietary software.  Not a single Office suite app on iOS is optimized for quick on-the-fly notetaking. Not to say that it can't be done, it's just not superfast as they all ask you if you want to save the previously used file. So I am using Apple Notes or Notability for quick notes & exporting them later.

  21. Onenote is a great tool in it's own way. Just like Evernote, it has it's drawbacks.


    - Free, up to the limits of Onedrive free storage. Not sure what it's stands at now, I think 5 GB ?

    - Excellent attachment handling. You pretty much can position any attachment anywhere, which makes it great for keeping project notes.

    - Excellent table function

    - Full section encryption.

    - Fantastic editor.


    - Once you run out of 5GB free space in your Onedrive, you can't upload any more notes unless you buy more space. For the record, all of my notes collected over many years were at about 4 GB (I had 30 GB Onedrive space total, due to several  "free space' deals). So for many users, this is going to suffice for a while

    - It's sync engine is slooow and clunky. While I never lost any data, I periodically ran into sync conflicts. MS way to make sure no data is lost during sync conflicts is to keep a copy of both versions. It's probably a good approach, but does require a bit of extra maintenance.

    - MS is doing away with Desktop version, and concentrating on Metro app version of Onenote. This means, no more ability to store your database locally, you're being forced to keep it in Onedrive. AFAIK no way to backup Onenote data locally either, you have to back it up from Onedrive. 

    In the end, I stopped using Onenote, and only use Evernote for my wife's recipies (she doesn't want to learn any new apps).

    • Like 3

  22. 58 minutes ago, DTLow said:

    Evernote has an export feature on the Mac and Windows platforms.

    There are also third party cloud services, for example cloudHQ.

    Sorry, there was a misunderstanding.

    My original message was about getting data out of Apple Notes if one doesn't have access to a Mac and wants to retain images and attachments. Which seems pretty difficult to do and requires buying an expensive converter program that may or may not work as expected.

    I was replying to this

    " There is a a way to migrate from Evernote to Apple Notes. From there it should be easy to share or export notes to whatever platform you want."

    I don't think it's easy, and may not even be possible without losing some data. That's why I am not using Apple Notes for anything other than quick notes I don't intend to keep.

    Evernote export tools are solid, no question about that.

    • Like 1
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