Wishlist website

[LucaBen 23]

I've just cancelled my Premium subscription and the condition for me to upgrade again is to see a wishlist website, similar to one that have been successfully implemented elsewhere (Webflow being the best example that I can think of: https://wishlist.webflow.com/). This should be a place where customers can submit ideas, vote for them, and follow progress, with official updates from the Evernote team on what's going to be taken on and released, and what not. I am not completely negative about the new Evernote, there are things that I like and things that I don't, but I am tired of funding a project that keep steering away from the core business I used to pay for (taking notes, keeping them organised), and instead of improving on that, they keep adding new features such as task management, to make Evernote an app that does everything and does it poorly.

There's plenty of paying customers on this forum who are complaining about their requests not being taken into consideration. Some of them appear perfectly reasonable to me, and have been requested by a significant amount of users, e.g. tabs, anchors within notes, export options. I've also added my own requests over time, e.g. search has always had lots of issues, and still does. We don't even know if anyone at Evernote reads this, all the response we get is from some forum users who apparently spend hours every week replying to comments, quite often by cynically dismissing other people's suggestions).

To those who say that by doing this, I deprive the company of the resources they need to keep improving, my answer is that I am happy to fund them again, as long as I know what I am paying for. It's also worth mentioning the fact that the Android app is full of bugs and keeps crushing, and we are now more than a year away from the announcement of the new release. Instead of releasing new features, I'd rather appreciate if they could focus on fixing bugs to their existing software first. If you search for the keyword "evernote" on Hacker News, the most popular one is an article published 9 years ago, called: "Evernote: the bug-ridden elephant". Apparently not much has changed in ten years. Well, let them lose some paying customers so they figure out how to move forward.

Note: I am posting here because I'd like this request to be public, and because apparently as a non-paying customer, I don't have access to a feature request form anymore. Please support this request if you believe that this is how the team at Evernote should work together with their customers to make the product better.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,959]

Only three comments, and probably not very helpful ones:

1. A great deal has changed in 10 years; indeed a great deal has changed in 2 years. See if you can find a 10-year-old copy of Evernote to install just to confirm.
2. Fixing a bug is entirely different from creating a feature, so a claim that Evernote doesn't fix bugs in a timely way is irrelevant to requests for new features.
3. If this works, great. But honestly, if it does I hope you'll make the same request to Microsoft and Google. Would you expect them to respond positively?

[Boot17 1,450]

I've been a paying customer since 2016 and a user since 2009. That Evernote have a forum and we can discuss ideas and make feature requests is nice, but I have absolutely zero expectations that any software company should give attention to my demands as a user. I pay them for the service they provide. If their service and features do not meet my needs then I will find another. I change my work flow to fit the tool rather than trying to force the tool to fit my workflow. If too many tweaks are involved then I look for and will move to a tool that better fits. And sometimes the tool changes on us -- for me the v10 change has been for the better -- for others it was for the worse and the cheese was moved.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,959]

1 hour ago, LucaBen said:

I am not completely negative about the new Evernote, there are things that I like and things that I don't, but I am tired of funding a project that keep steering away from the core business I used to pay for (taking notes, keeping them organised), and instead of improving on that, they keep adding new features such as task management, to make Evernote an app that does everything and does it poorly.

This is the part I'd like to hear more about. What are the things you like and the things you don't like? What specific new features would you put up on a wishlist for Evernote to implement?

As for the new features, I use some and not others. For example, I expect to use tasks someday, but I don't yet. Meanwhile, I take notes and organize them every day just fine; none of the new features interferes with my doing that. I'm genuinely puzzled by what it is that you're looking for.

[LucaBen 23]

@Boot17@Dave-in-Decatur Thanks for your replies. I honestly don't see what is so puzzling about my proposal. I've been using Webflow for years, and it's great to have the possibility to interact with the core team that is working on new features: you should check out how their wishlist website works. Why can't Evernote do the same, and instead, keep working the old-fashioned way as you seem to suggest they should do? Google and Microsoft don't, and in fact most of their products are passable at best, what makes them so successful (and still great to use) is the huge amount of data they can share, because they are a monopoly.

Of course I pay Evernote for what they offer, that is so obvious there is no need to even state it, but it's not true that you can go elsewhere: there is just no replacement for Evernote, in my opinion. I would rather keep using it, and contribute to it. I don't see why there can't be both, paying to use it, and have them listen to my suggestions for improvements. That's what all business owners should do, if they want their product to be successful: listen to their users, pain points and frustrations in particular, and create a feeback loop so as the product evolves, you also get useful insight from the people who are using it.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

It’s a feature request, any anybody can vote on it who believes it would make sense.

Personally I don’t think so:

The forum has feature requests, that can be searched and filtered 

There is the feedback function 

There is support - by ticket or chat

The main believe behind such a website is that Evernote would make their roadmap visible for users. This at the same time would make it visible for the competition as well. It is a strategic decision to keep it internal - and I doubt a feature request will change this.

For me I take Evernote for what it does NOW. This is what I get, and this is what I pay. I don’t need a list of what may be, and actually I don’t see any value for EN or us users in publishing it.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,959]

2 hours ago, LucaBen said:

@Boot17@Dave-in-Decatur Thanks for your replies. I honestly don't see what is so puzzling about my proposal. I've been using Webflow for years, and it's great to have the possibility to interact with the core team that is working on new features: you should check out how their wishlist website works. Why can't Evernote do the same, and instead, keep working the old-fashioned way as you seem to suggest they should do? Google and Microsoft don't, and in fact most of their products are passable at best, what makes them so successful (and still great to use) is the huge amount of data they can share, because they are a monopoly.

I don't use Webflow, so I know nothing about them. I do use a marvelous academic word processor called Nota Bene, and they have always been very interactive with their user community. They are a very small shop, and their userbase is also limited, so this kind of interactivity is reasonable. OTOH, they do have their own vision for their product, and they do say no sometimes to user requests. I don't know whether Evernote, with its millions of users and large development team, would find it effective to implement the wishlist model.

I do remain curious about what might be on your own wishlist. But perhaps you don't yet have anything that specific, which is fine.

[LucaBen 23]

1 hour ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

I do remain curious about what might be on your own wishlist. But perhaps you don't yet have anything that specific, which is fine.

@Dave-in-Decatur I've mentioned it above: tabs, in-note anchors, more export options with possibility to export all notes at once are the features that many have been asking for, including myself.

[LucaBen 23]

@PinkElephant The feature request forum sucks, compared to what I am proposing, mostly because it lacks any interaction with the Evernote team. The argument that it would be an advantage for competitors is often brought up and it makes little sense. Products are extremely different from one another, the features that Evernote would implement are different than the features that competitors would implement. And as you are saying, a request forum exists already, so competitors could just read that, if they wanted to get insight into what users want. It's really an argument that does not stand up to scrutiny, and the success story of Webflow is also a proof that it's a good idea that can bring a competitive advantage.

Anyway you guys are free to have your own opinions, and pay for Premium if you wish. I won't be a paying customer in the coming future.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

You think it is a question of a missing tool that explains why there is little information.

I think it is a question of the communication policy - nobody needs a tool that will not be used.

[LucaBen 23]

@PinkElephant How do you know that it would not be used?

[PinkElephant 8,114]

How do you know it would ?

Why do you think the EN team desperately wants to communicate, and has just not found the right tool to use ?

We have gotten a few times in the past some well defined hints (mostly pretty undefined) about the direction development takes. EN has communicated exactly what they wanted to communicate - and not telling more was for sure not for a lack of abilities or possibilities.

You are promoting an obsolete proposal, because you ask the wrong questions. Just my 5 ct. …

[LucaBen 23]

I think it's the exact opposite of obsolete. You are proposing a model that keeps UX out of the equation, where EN decides what to implement and what to communicate, and customers should just take a note: that is obsolete. This request form is obsolete, too, and highly inefficient. A wishlist website is a much better way to get feedback and get people engaged. Of course I don't think that this situation is due to a lack of tools, or that EN cannot find a way to communicate. That would be silly. It's rather a lack of users letting them know that they are not going to support EN any longer unless they change their communication strategy. Building a Wishlist website would require a minimal effort and if it doesn't work, let it be. I really see no reason why they shouldn't invest on it, everyone would benefit from it. Lots of users have migrated to other tools already and more will do. 

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Nobody who doesn't want to communicate about something needs a tool that helps to communicate about something.

Is such a simple chain of logical deduction that difficult to understand ?

[LucaBen 23]

@PinkElephant I don't see why they can't change their strategy, if customers start asking for it. You are making a series of weak arguments and assumptions that may not necessarily be right. I suggest that if you don't agree with the idea, you just ignore it instead of bashing against it.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

If you would search the forum (especially some of the very long running requests), you would know that a more open communication about coming features has been asked for since long. There has been no change.

You can request you what you want.

You likely drop a stone into a pond, a little wave, and silence again.

[LucaBen 23]

You may be right, in that case I'll keep using EN as a non paying customers. What bothers me is to receive comments from other users who criticize suggestions to improve on things, rather than supporting them.

[PinkElephant 8,114]

Why do you expect unreflected support for any idea ? There is no improvement without criticism.