(Archived) REQUEST: Lightweight version

[tommyent 1]

I would love to see a light weight version of Evernote like the iPad for Mac. With the size of Evernote databases growing having to store the database locally is not all that convienant especially on something like the MacBook Air.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

It's not just for notes in my case, but anyway - what about Evernote's servers? That's heck of a lot more power in order for you to have access to notes on the iPad!

true. me and 20 million other users

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

Hi JM.

1. Yes. I keep only the PDFs I need on the iPad.

2. Yes. This has been a source of irritation for me. I have been advocating for more robust tag features, with "offline" tags and "shared" tags that could be used much as their notebook counterparts. Alas, this has not percolated into the application, so I occasionally have to make an offline notebook for travel. I usually delete it when I am back in range of my wireless networks.

3. Yes. I have wifi connections.

4. Yes. It takes a lot of file splitting. Fortunately, the majority of my PDFs are under 50mb.

5. Yes. I do have some in Dropbox, but that makes the content unsearchable, and I really hate to give up that functionality.

6. I don't know what Evernote is designed/optimized for if not this. The PDFs are stored in it, never modified, and become part of the search results that help me to grow and develop my notes. Maybe I am hacking the app to do things the designers didn't think of. I don't know, but Evernote has been a hugely important tool in my career so far.

7. Now I can do one search on a topic and find everything ever written by me or anyone else, all within Evernote, and it occurs in just a few seconds. I have no liking nor interest in the various document management programs out there that force me to split up my searches. I have tried several that are designed for scholars, and they do what they say, but are a horrible time sink. Ugh. I have wasted so much time on those...

Thank you for the suggestions.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

i have pdfs of various materials.

- i often use 600 dpi, because the materials use asian characters with poor/small print.

- the books are reference works with several hundred pages (often well over 1000).

- the pdfs are made up of photographs i have taken of rare documents,

- the books are museum catalogs with high res photos.

- dissertations from anytime before the last five or ten years.

. . .

anyone who has gone paperless and has a large personal library to convert will have similar file sizes.

GM, if your intent is to put your entire high res library into Evernote I'm not sure either Evernote or the iPad will serve you as well as other options. Since I don't all of your needs or exactly how you are using Evernote, I'll just share some thoughts, which may, or may not, be applicable to your situation.

Issues/Concerns with Managing a High Res Document (Book) Library

1. The max storage on the iPad is 64 GB, which will quickly be consumed by your high res books/documents, as you indicated above
   
2. Yes, you can select which Notebooks to make "Offline", but as I understand it you use only one Notebook.
   
3. IAC, whenever you need a Book that is not stored on the iPad, you will have to wait for it to be downloaded from the Evernote Cloud, which could take considerable time if you don't have a wifi connection
   
4. As you have noted, Evernote limits your monthly uploads to 1-2 GB, which may not be adequate for these high res books.
   
5. One option is to store the high res books/docs in the Cloud, and just put a link to the file in Evernote.
   
6. Evernote is not designed/optimized as a document management system, even though you can store documents as attachments to Notes
   
7. Dedicated Document Mgt Sys can do a much better job,
   
   • Download only the pages you need to view, as you view them, of a PDF document (book).
     
   • Provide fields to capture related data like Abstract, Comments, Source, Author, etc
     
   • Capture your highlights and notes as your read the document
     
   • Provide sharing with much better controls over permissions than Evernote provides
     

These are just some thoughts, which you may have already considered in your selection of tools.

[Metrodon 2,184]

We all know that Evernote is trying to be a very general tool so that it appeals to the widest possible audience.

I'm afraid that Grumps you are such an edge case that you are almost off the scale

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

i have pdfs of various materials.

- i often use 600 dpi, because the materials use asian characters with poor/small print.

- the books are reference works with several hundred pages (often well over 1000).

- the pdfs are made up of photographs i have taken of rare documents,

- the books are museum catalogs with high res photos.

- dissertations from anytime before the last five or ten years.

the list goes on and on. yes, i scan at 300 dpi whenever possible b/w whenever possible. yes, i optimize files whenever i can. no, epub is not a relevant file size, because epub (mobi, etc.) are ebook formats created from the beginning as digital files, often with poor image quality.

anyone who has gone paperless and has a large personal library to convert will have similar file sizes. the numbers are not uncommon. here is a good site (especially if anyone reading this is wondering how to go about digitizing their library) http://www.organizingcreativity.com/2011/01/109-scanned-books-later/ he ends up with file sizes as small as about 5mb after ocr. i suspect he is dealing with rather small books. at any rate, even basic scanning without colors, images, and so forth will get you this files size.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

i've got single files that are several hundred megabytes, and they are just scans of books. breaking those up into 50mb chunks is a real pain! i've got several terabytes of stuff backed up.

Wow! 100's of MB for a book?

Why are these so large?

How many pages?

How many images?

Unless these books contain lots of high res color photos, the file size should be much smaller.

I haven't scanned many books, but I have scanned lots of documents, training manuals, user manuals etc. Almost all of my PDFs are less than 10MB, with many being in the 1-2 MB range.

Are you optimizing and compressing the PDF files using something like Adobe Acrobat?

Are you keeping the scanning resolution to 200-300 dpi?

Here's a ref you might find helplful:

General PDF/Output Size of a Scanned Book?

Here's an interesting analysis of ePub file size:

REF: http://blog.threepress.org/2009/11/16/how-big-is-the-average-epub-book/

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

you asked for my math, so you got it. it adds up

as for "power usage" and consumption, evernote offers 1gb a month and even offers an extra gigabyte if users want. am i the only one taking advantage of this? i doubt it. i imagine someone was asking for that, or they wouldn't have raised the limit to 1gb or given us the option to purchase more. i can't speak for bnf's usage, but it used to only amount to 6gb per year, so i guess a smaller database size would make sense.

i don't think 1gb is so large. i've got single files that are several hundred megabytes, and they are just scans of books. breaking those up into 50mb chunks is a real pain! i've got several terabytes of stuff backed up. it will be a year or more before i get all of my major files into evernote. i wish they let us upload a year's worth of information at once.

sure, of course we need to evaluate our own needs and use the device that is most appropriate for us. my point is that, like the op, evernote's lack of parity across platforms in this case has expensive ramifications. i cannot think of any other apps that influence my gadget buying decisions so much.

fortunately, the better the ios app gets, the less i need to worry abou this issue

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

@GM: I wasn't doubting that you may add 1-2 GB per month to Evernote.

But I do think that amount of usage is exceptionally high.

BurgersNFries has used Evernote for many years, and apparently puts an extensive amount of info into Evernote.

Yet, her total size after all these years is only about 15 GB:

I have over 42,000 notes & my database size is over 15 gb and the EN search still works very fast.

Even in today's electronic world, a GB of user data is still quite large, excluding high resolution audio, photos, and video.

So, while Evernote has a limit of 1 GB upload per month, that doesn't mean that a user will actually consume that much storage every month.

Even if you have a PC or Mac with a large hard drive (500 - 750 GB), it would be consumed in 25-38 months at 2 GB/month.

Bottom Line: Each user needs to evaluate their own needs, and estimate how much additional storage they expect to consume each month.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

hi jm. we receive 1gb for uploads per month as premium users. i am very diligent of squeezing in as much as possible, leaving only a few megabytes each time for last minute emergencies. i know others on this forum do the same thing. 1x12=12. we also have the option of purchasing an extra gb per month, and i will probably start doing that as well. 2x12=24.

the mba comes in many sizes, but i am not paying several hundred more for ssd memory just to hold my evernote notes. memory might be getting cheaper, but it is not getting any larger (at least in the appleverse). we have the same memory in the base model as we had for the original one several years ago. anyhow, i don't live in the future, so it is sort of a moot point.

i agree with you about the external drive. i have suggested that as a solution before as well. but, i think the offline/online toggle (just like on the ipad) is a much more elegant solution.

as for the ipad version of evernote, it is actually pretty nice. i don't edit my pdfs on the desktop or the ipad, so that is a non-issue for me (the rationale is explained elsewhere on these forums). i can open any file in evernote. i can mail any file to evernote. it certainly is more limited, but not in ways that impact my workflow. in fact, i actually prefer the search function in ios because it is not instantaneous and laggy.

my only complaint at the moment is some weird copy/paste behavior that has returned to bug me. it is a minor issue, but as you said, evidence of a continuing struggle to debug it. fortunately, they have overcome the more serious ones, like keyboard lag.

anyhow, if we were just talking about evernote, maybe i would be more interested in some kind of desktop solution, but i want something i can use for reading, handwriting, and long periods of work away from outlets. so, i am quite happy with the ipad

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

i had the same problem, and returned my mba, because evernote just wasn't going to work with it. as a premium member, your database will potentially grow 12-24 gb a year, and with only 64 gb on the mba, that is a huge percentage of the storage.

GM, what is the basis for these numbers? I'm sure the number of Notes, and the amount of storage per Note will vary with User.

But your numbers seem very high to me.

I use Evernote a lot, and I am seeing only about 1GB per year.

Also, the MBA offers much higher storage than 64GB. It also has 128GB and 256GB.

As time goes on, the MBA flash storage will get higher and higher, and cheaper.

rather than a lightweight version of evernote, i have been asking for an offline notebook option like we have with the ipad. you could use a toggle to make notebooks offline (download more than just headers and store locally)/online (download only headers and do not store locally).

I can see where this could be a useful option for some.

Another option that many have asked for is to allow Evernote storage on an external drive

alternatively, you could stop using your mac entirely. i do a lot of work on my ipad (incase origami + keyboard + ipad) and i usually go several days without even turning it on. this turns out to be the solution that works best for me.

GM, I suspect that you and I will have to agree to disagree on use of MBA vs iPad.

I know you strongly favor the iPad, but after having used both for about a year, I have found the MBA to be far superior in EN Note entry, web clipping, and editing, and searching.

As you know, Evernote is still struggling with the EN iPad app. IMO, the EN iPad app will always fall short of the EN Mac app due to the limitations of the Apple iOS. But the biggest difference is that the Mac OS is a full featured operating system which not only supports all of your favorite apps, but fully supports sharing of files and data between apps. On the Mac it is very easy to open any attachment in an EN Note in another app, make edits, and return/update the attachment in the Note. Plus you can easily drag/drop any file on the Mac into Evernote. Currently currently neither of these is directly possible on the iPad.

[May 268]

It's not just for notes in my case, but anyway - what about Evernote's servers? That's heck of a lot more power in order for you to have access to notes on the iPad!

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

goodness gracious 24/7/365? that's a lot of power in order for me to access my evernote notes! i think i will stick to the ipad

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

Yeah, I wasn't talking about connecting to MBA remotely, sure it doesn't solve anything lol!

I just think most people with an ultraportable laptop would also have a desktop. So it's an option to login to desktop remotely... I keep my desktop running all the time, year round 24/7

What May said. ;-)

[May 268]

Yeah, I wasn't talking about connecting to MBA remotely, sure it doesn't solve anything lol!

I just think most people with an ultraportable laptop would also have a desktop. So it's an option to login to desktop remotely... I keep my desktop running all the time, year round 24/7

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

the problem here is that remote logins wouldn't solve anything. if you buy an mba, logging into it from an iphone, ipad, or any other device would still lead you to a computer with only 64 gb of memory. what you would need is another computer that has lots of memory, and then log into it from the mba. so, you'd need to buy two computers, and i guess leave one on at home all day. sounds like something less than ideal...

i still don't get the resistance to adding the same functionality we already have on the ipad (offline notebooks) to the desktop versions, and i don't really think of myself as a power user (just someone taking advantage of the 1gb upload allowance each month), but i don't do the number crunching at evernote, so i'd hate for them to spend time on this if it really isn't a feature many people would appreciate.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

I use EN from my iPhone/iPad via remote sessions (Logmein) to my PC often.

[May 268]

Remote desktop session on macbook air could be an option, heck you can even get all of the windows features of Evernote on a mac this way...

although you'd need to be online or on a local network to use it. It'd be similar to using an online client except you get more features because it'd be a local client but on a different(remote) computer.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

I would love to see a light weight version of Evernote like the iPad for Mac. With the size of Evernote databases growing having to store the database locally is not all that convienant especially on something like the MacBook Air.

i had the same problem, and returned my mba, because evernote just wasn't going to work with it. as a premium member, your database will potentially grow 12-24 gb a year, and with only 64 gb on the mba, that is a huge percentage of the storage.

rather than a lightweight version of evernote, i have been asking for an offline notebook option like we have with the ipad. you could use a toggle to make notebooks offline (download more than just headers and store locally)/online (download only headers and do not store locally).

so far, I have had a tough time convincing anyone that something needs to be done. the consensus seems to be that the problem is limited to power users, so it is not a problem they need to prioritize. you can find a longer discussion and an evernote response here:

there are some workarounds. you could use only the web version and not download the evernote app onto your computer, because it automatically syncs everything. you lose a whole lot of functionality this way, though.

alternatively, you could stop using your mac entirely. i do a lot of work on my ipad (incase origami + keyboard + ipad) and i usually go several days without even turning it on. this turns out to be the solution that works best for me.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

What issues to you see with running Evernote on a MacBook Air?

I have been doing this for over 2 years without any problems or issues of any kind.

I have about 3,400 Notes with lots of attachments that uses about 2.04 GB of storage.

I leave Evernote running all the time and I use it many times each day, either to add Notes or find Notes.

Evernote works great on a MBA.