Bill Myers

Is that a Battlestar Galactica reference? Please say it's a Battlestar Galactica reference.

Yeah, I don't need Evernote to be all things to me. YNAB is the right tool for my finances. Nirvana is the right tool for GTD lists. On the other hand, Nirvana doesn't handle project plans well. At best projects have a note field that allows for plain text and the creation of very basic checkboxes (athough creating and using the checkboxes is a bit of a kludge). Nirvana has been promising the capability to add attachments for years but still no word on when or if that might happen. Reading these posts it occurs to me that projects that need more complex planning and/or digital support materials would be best handled in Evernote. The ability to create TOC lists and the backlinks feature would make that pretty easy. Ultimately I'm noticing two things here. First, some people feel the need to collect and save a lot more content than I do. For instance, when I order something from Amazon I simply note what's coming in a "waiting for" item in Nirvana and assign a due date so I'll know when it should arrive. If it doesn't and I haven't received an email about it I contact Amazon. Letting them manage my order history is good enough for me. I'm not saying @gazumped is doing it wrong. We're just different. Second, some of you are a bit more (or a lot more) technologically adept than me. @DTLow likes the flexibility of using Apple Numbers and custom scripting to handle budgeting. I am not a software developer (although, in fairness, I don't know if @DTLow is either) and have no interest in learning scripting even on an amateur basis. I am more tech-literate than the average person but nevertheless I want software that just works. I don't want to have to go under the hood or spend a lot of time configuring things. Still, even though our desires and use cases are different I am learning a lot here. I do think I could be using Evernote for more than I am, and maybe using it better than I am right now. I don't need it to be everything, I just need it to be good at the things I want it to do. I know there are a lot of people expressing that they have or will be leaving Evernote. All I can says is that despite the ups and downs since I started using it (maybe 2012 or so, I can't remember) I haven't found anything else that makes me comfortable. I think OneNote is more stable and I already pay for it as part of my Office365 subscription, but I don't love the interface, the search tool isn't as robust, I don't think it handles web clipping as well, and maybe things have changed but when I tried to use it years ago setting up the sync was a pain. I downloaded Obsidian and played with it but found it un-intuitive in some respects and I'm just not willing to invest the time to learn it. Yes, Evernote has its issues. But what I like about it, I really like. That's why I hope Bending Spoons does well with it. If Evernote folds, I can find something else that can work for me. But I'd prefer not to.

So... I'm digesting everyone's comments and I'm really appreciative of them. I think the issue for me is that Evernote's business model is to get users to do all of their work in Evernote to the maximum extent possible. As an avid GTD practitioner, I'm not going to stop using Nirvana for managing my actions and projects because it does that really well and I like it. I've used Evernote as my list manager before and it didn't work well for me. I also saw that @DTLow uses Evernote somehow for budgeting. I use a SaaS solution called You Need A Budget and again, that works super well for me. I see no reason to try to move that function into Evernote. I think others here have a more expansive vision for what Evernote can do for them, and also like to collect and save more than I do at the moment. But I am also feeling very strongly that my "just create notebooks and stick stuff in them" strategy is something I could very easily outgrow. Things could get hard to find. I know Evernote has a great search feature -- I use it liberally -- so that helps. But I could see a use for tags. I am also wrestling with whether to start using Evernote to manage documents like Word files and Excel spreadsheets. There are some advantages and disadvantages to doing so. My biggest concern is my uncertainty about the Bending Spoons acquisition of the product. I certainly hope they have the best of success with it but none of us know what the future may hold. If the product goes belly up someday, I'd hate to have a mess where I'd need to figure out how to find and get critical, irreplaceable documents out of Evernote and into some other system. Still, I don't want any of this to be construed as attempting to argue with people about their advice. I asked for suggestions because I am open to learning, and this has been a great thread so far (at least in my estimation). Moreover I hope it's worth others' time to read as well. I tend to think discussions about how to utilize Evernote are a good, productive use of a forum like this. And again I thank everyone to for their help and look forward to additional comments if any are forthcoming.

I forgot that sarcasm and humor don't often come across in a format like this. I was just joking about not understanding how the "LVL" works. And I didn't mean to show any disrespect towards you or anyone else who has spent a lot of time here helping others. I don't aspire to "leveling up" nor do I see it as a competition. The only thing I aspire to here is to learn from others (that's my primary goal), help if I can, and try to be a good forum member. WHAT? No fries? That's it. I'm outta here. BUT -- is it a good one or does it represent a never-before-identified disorder? A team of Viennese psychiatrists is still trying to sort that out.

I understand the tags vs. notebooks debate has been going on since time immemorial, and that online discussions, mud wrestling matches and even one duel with old-fashioned dueling pistols failed to settle it. My issue with tagging was that at one time I tagged the heck (I'm trying not to upset the anti-potty-talk algorithms any further) out of things with tags that just didn't mean a lot to me, creating a mess of little value. So I've fallen in with the notebook crowd despite their record of juvenile delinquency (a thing I may have just made up). I'm open to tags and understand the concept but I'm not sure I yet have use case for them. Nevertheless I'm open to learning which is why I've asked for input.

BTW, @gazumped, in addition to noticing your little green badge I've also noticed you're a level 5 and I'm a level 3. Which means... I'm two less than you. I'm not sure what else that implies or how I would level up. Or what I would receive by way of reward if I did. Free French fries at one of the better U.S. fast food chains? Please say it's fries, man. I love me some fries.

Well, as I said, it was on the extreme end of things but not truly an isolated incident. I've seen plenty of comments that were unnecessarily verbally abusive but probably just skirted the line without going over it. Nevertheless, I don't want to position myself as a self-appointed civility policeman. I said what I said in the other threads and stand by it, but it's time to move on. I'm actually much more interested in learning more about Evernote now that I've settled on it as my main digital tool for content that wouldn't have a home elsewhere. I have a natural curiosity and am wondering what I might be able to do with it that I haven't yet thought of. Hence my original post.

Well, as an Evernote user I'm sure your moderator duties are on a volunteer basis. I would assume in addition to being a moderator you are a person with an outside life. Also, when I wondered where the forum moderators were I was actually referring to my own self-deprecating jest about having been a jerk myself. As in -- why haven't you booted me out? I would hope in all seriousness I haven't been the sort of person you'd need to bounce out of here.

Huh. Based on what happened to my prior post, some naughty language is allowed here and some not (I think both words I used were PG-13 at worst, but one of them offended the anti-potty-talk algorithms). Boy, you just can't take me anywhere. Even virtually.

Well, actually, I've been reading these forums for several years (actually, maybe more than a decade). You wouldn't recognize my name, I'm sure, because I've only posted very sporadically during that time. I have to admit, back in the day I've posted about some unhappy experiences with Evernote but generally kept my cool. These days I just don't get very excited about these things. If I like something like Evernote I keep paying for it and if I don't I cancel my subscription and leave quietly. What's the point of doing much else? I usually read "I hate Evernote posts" with a yawn and then move on. The other day, however, I saw someone had referred to Bending Spoons as a "greedy Italian mob" which set me off. (And it leads me to wonder, would that have made the old Evernote company a "greedy Silicon Valley venture-capital-backed mob"? Is that an actual mob? Would Evernote be the thing that made their criminal activity organized? Is it really a good idea to keep a record of criminal activity in a cloud-based application? So many questions.) So I posted multiple times with variations on the theme of wondering why anyone would get so all-fired-up angry about cloud-based note-taking software and particularly calling out someone for using an ethnic slur simply because they don't like Bending Spoons' new pricing. But I got that out of my system. So... the tenor of these forums... nothing new to me. I realize the anti-Italian bit may have been a new low, but it's a difference of degree rather than kind and vituperation on these boards is hardly an isolated thing. As for "don't be a jerk" -- well, *****. Too late. I already have been. Where in hell are moderators when you need them? As for having "a sense of humor," I like to think I'm funny. When I was younger I used to stand-up comedy at open mic nights. I'm afraid 99 percent of the laughs I got were for the wrong reasons, though. Nevertheless I appreciate your response as well as @PinkElephant's. Rather than responding I'm digesting what I've read. But I greatly appreciate your input and look forward to any more I might receive.

Hi. I realize this is a thoroughly inappropriate use of this forum, but rather than complain bitterly about Evernote's feature set, stability, or pricing; or call for all Bending Spoons employees to be incarcerated; or discuss last year's bowling scores; I would like to ask other users for help. Specifically, I'm interested in learning how people use Evernote to manage their work. I'll further ignore all that is good and decent by trying to provide some helpful context about me and my use case. I have ADHD and I find that the more complex my systems are, the more I have trouble managing them. Some people speak of "curating" their notes or using "taxonomies" but I find that the more I have to remember the more apt I am to miss a step. I recent culled roughly 2,500 notes down to about 170 that I want to keep. I expect to grow that over time, now that I have a better idea of what I might want to use Evernote for. I currently have three notebook stacks: one for checklists, one for project support, and one for reference. I have multiple notebooks within each stack, which is primarily how I narrow down what I want to find. I don't currently feel I have a use for tags but am open to suggestions (which I realize is a horrible thing to admit when, by forum rules, I should take the position that I know everything). My concern is that as I grow my collection of notes, I might outgrow this simple way of organizing things. Furthermore, I am a practitioner of a life management system called Getting Things Done, or GTD. I use a tool called Nirvana to manage all of my action and projects lists and therefore have no desire to use Evernote tasks. I realize a lot of people are happy with tasks. I just don't think I fit the profile of the intended target user for that feature. (I understand that such neutral language about a feature I don't use has no place here. Clearly I ought to be saying that whoever came up with this awful tasks feature should burn for all eternity in the fires of hell, but I just don't feel that way. I am obviously an awful, awful person.) Evernote is primarily the means by which I store any digital content that doesn't have a home elsewhere. I feel that email lives nicely in Gmail or Outlook, and both have search features that allow me to find what I need. I also find that for most documents, spreadsheets, and PDF files, storing them in folders in the Documents directory in Windows works fine for my needs. I use Evernote to store free-form notes, tables I create for simple needs, web clippings, and things like that. Although if someone can suggest a reason why using Evernote to do more could be useful, I'm all ears. I was in sales until I lost my job at the end of February. I've been interviewing for sales jobs, but also am in the running for a sales support job that would involve being a subject matter expert at a SaaS provider, doing demos and providing expertise to salespeople, as well as training and technical support for customers. My hobbies include comic-book writing and illustration (I'm working on creating my own comic, and right now a lot of the preliminary story ideas, character bios, and story outlines live in a project folder in Evernote). I'm married. I have no children, but I have two greyhounds and three cats who mean the world to me. I don't know if that context helps but thought I'd provide it to further help people understand the kinds of things I need and want to manage. I guess because I'm paying for an Evernote subscription (and I realize it takes some serious gall to be willing pay for the service) I'm wondering if I'm using it for all it's worth. Right now I don't use the Home screen in any way. I don't know if there's anything else I might be missing in terms of using the tool well. Ultimately I realize I'm the only one who can decide how to use the tool to my satisfaction but I'd really love to hear other people's ideas and learn from them if anyone would care to share. (And yes, I do realize that being a relatively happy paying customer means I have no place here. Clearly a lifetime of hard labor in a North Korean prison camp is too good for the likes of me. But if you all could see past my depravity and take pity on me, I'd really be grateful for people's suggestions.) (I also apologize for the heaps of sarcasm. I'm kind of in a mood today, and partly this is just how I am. Hopefully I haven't turned away any people who might otherwise be inclined to help. I really am coming here in all humility, firmly believing that a lot of people here know a great deal more than I do and might have something to teach me. Thanks.)

Like all stereotypes, it's stupid. Just about every nation and ethnicity has some version of an organized crime syndicate. The Japanese have the Yakuza. The Russians have the Odessa Mafia, among other organizations. During prohibition in the U.S., the Jewish mob was particularly prominent. I could go on and on. I have friends of many races, ethnicities, religions, sexual orientations, gender identities, and too many other things to mention. If I can't do the bare minimum by at least speaking up for them, I'm not being much a friend. I wish you the best in your move to Italy. Moving from one nation to another is a big undertaking. And law enforcement is never an easy career. I have multiple friends in the field. Is your husband going to be doing that in Italy? I understand being in that job in one country doesn't automatically mean you can do it in another; they all have their own rules and requirements. In any event, best of luck to you both. At least Evernote is cloud-based, that will be one thing you won't have to worry about when you move.

By the way, I don't want to belabor my point but resorting to the stereotype of Italians being organized criminals isn't just crass, it's hateful. I don't expect to persuade anyone who would say such a thing to admit that it's hate speech, or to be willing to change their ways (in fact, I expect the opposite of them). But I feel it needs saying. One could argue that "hate speech" is too strong a phrase and I'm just being "woke." I would disagree. And one could argue that it's best to just ignore such things. But I feel people of goodwill need to step up and stand up for our fellow humans. Bending Spoons saw an opportunity to acquire a product and add it to their portfolio, almost certainly for less money than they could have had the prior owners been able to maximize its potential. They're betting that they can make that investment pay off. That's not a crime. And they sure as hell don't deserve to be smeared for that (to be clear, ethnic slurs are never deserved, though). Whether I choose to remain a customer or not (and for at least the next twelve months, I'll remain a customer), I wish them success.

I decided to re-up for a year to take advantage of a discount. Like I said, I placed a bet. If it turns out to be a bad one, it will be far from the costliest mistake I've made.

Hi, @Federico Simionato. I wouldn't call it "worry," at least not on my part. Just an observation. And I've been a member of this forum for awhile. Sometimes I've participated more, sometimes less, sometimes not at all. But I've been a pretty consistent lurker and this is really nothing new. It's the internet, you know? Nevertheless, I appreciate seeing communication from the "head of Evernote" at Bending Spoons. I understand that due to normal M&A stuff, communication from Bending Spoons needed to be limited for a time. Still, I think the more you can communicate with us customers, the better it will be both for us and your company. Please understand, it's been quite a ride for customers. While I don't share the intensity of emotion from some of my fellow Evernote subscribers, I have a times asked myself "oh, Lord, what now?" in response to some of the developments over the years. Former Evernote CEO Phil Libin promised a focus on quality that never seemed to materialize. Ian Small promised changes to Evernote that would simply make things better without disrupting how people did their work (he even claimed he once rearranged things in the refrigerators in the company breakroom to illustrate to employees how unhappy it makes customers when you break their workflows), only to release a new version of Evernote that did a lot things he promised not to. Ultimately, a lot of people who were initially unhappy with v10 have made their peace with it, myself included. Although some clearer communication wouldn't have hurt. Had Small told us that in order to create a more stable, higher quality product, they would have to streamline things, deprecate some features and change others, I would have been able to accept that. No one can please everyone. No one can make a circle that's also a square. Some features that were my favorites might simply not have been important enough to the entire user base to justify the cost of building them into the new version. But, again, good communication would be a really welcome change. So would keeping promises. I really don't know what to make of Bending Spoons. Never heard of you before this. But if you keep in mind the two things I've mentioned, I don't think it will be too hard to keep a lot of us happy, and make your investment in Evernote profitable. I wish you the best of luck with the acquisition.

Well, given the level of vitriol I've seen on this forum over a number of years, it's not just about the Bending Spoons acquisition and it's a lot more than just frustration and disappointment. Obviously, referring to Bending Spoons as a "greedy Italian mob" is one of the more extreme examples, but it's not isolated. And it represents a lot more than just "uncertainty" on people's part. I disagree. At one time, Evernote was very important to my "workflow," now it is much less so. But the decision to leave or stay is a simple, binary choice. It may not be easy, but it is simple. Again, I think everyone would be well-served to make peace with their choice. I have doubts and concerns about Bending Spoons, but I've placed my bet. Fretting or being pissed off won't change the outcome. If I get too uncomfortable, I'm free to leave. But if people prefer to stick around in a situation that makes them miserable, they're free to do so. And if they want to wrongly convince themselves that their performative anger is hurting anyone else as much as it is them, they're free to do that, too. I understand that when you've come to rely on a product in a certain way and can no longer do so, that can be stressful. Nevertheless, I refuse to go to my grave someday (hopefully decades from now, but one never knows what the next moment will bring) thinking, "Damn it, I gave up a chunk of my life to hating on Evernote when I could have used that time and energy to smell the roses, or appreciate my loved ones, or stuff like that."

Yeah. I understand why people might want to air out criticisms in this forum. Sometimes Evernote employees used to peek in here. Now, apparently at least one person from Bending Spoons is doing so. Constructive criticism from customers is fair game. And some feedback isn't necessarily suited for a support ticket. Good companies make use of customer communication across multiple channels. But if you're angry and not getting satisfaction from a company, though, it's time to leave. I hate to break it to people, but no matter how justifiable you believe your anger to be, the targets of your feelings are just going to go on with their lives. If you choose not to do the same, the only person you're hurting is you. And whether you want to accept it or not, you're making a deliberate choice. Again, I'm probably shouting into the wind. There's probably not much more to say than I already have.

Seriously, in 2023, are we still doing this? I realize this is probably doing as much good as shouting into the wind, but can't we have this conversation without resorting to idiotic stereotypes? I will confess I've had trepidations about the Bending Spoons acquisition. I have no idea what they'll eventually do with respect to pricing, features, and functionality. I also have no idea whether they'll be successful with the product. It's not as though Evernote's old investors would have any reason to care about the long-term viability of the product in this situation. They've cashed out. The rest isn't their problem. I'm not saying that's good or bad. That's just what it is. Still, it seems to me we have only three options in this situation: 1. Stay with Evernote and make our peace with the uncertainty. (That's the option I've chosen.) 2. Decide that Evernote for whatever reason no longer suits us, and leave for another product. (I think that's a totally legit and reasonable choice.) 3. Decide we hate Evernote for whatever reason (quality, features, pricing, whatever) but refuse to leave, instead bitterly complaining on a user forum to other users who have no more ability to control or influence things than we do. You know, in other words, just decide to be miserable. I have no idea why, but it seems to me a lot of people are picking this option even though it seems to be the worst of the three. I don't think anyone on their deathbed will look back and think, "Boy, I wish I had spent more time being angry about cloud-based notetaking apps." I've got far more important things to invest my emotions in than Evernote. If the product goes belly up, becomes pricier than I'm willing to pay, or otherwise ceases to meet my needs, I can move on and be fine. I think users helping other users is a great use of this forum. I think coming on here and being miserable about something outside of our control may not be. But... hey, it's your life and your choice.

Wow. Kudos for a super-great explanation that translated the technical into layperson's terms AND tied it to things important to customers. For the longest time I felt that Evernote was delivering "innovations" no one was asking for while ignoring fundamental problems. It was as though the company was adding floors to a structure with a rotted foundation. No more. Now Evernote is focusing on the problems users have been begging to have solved: quality, performance, scalability. I truly have confidence in Evernote's team to deliver on its promises. Yes, I understand the company is behind where it wanted to be (I saw Ian Small's update in my email this morning) in terms of delivering on certain promises. As far as I'm concerned, though, Evernote has not exhausted my patience. As long as the company keeps focusing on the things that matter I'm happy to stay on board for the ride. And when the time to comes to surprise us with innovations, I have confidence they'll be things to get excited about.

I moved my GTD lists to another application so I could easily link projects and actions. There are workarounds for doing that in Evernote but none of them are easy. That's beyond the scope of this thread, though. And there may not be a good use case for Evernote to ever offer that kind of functionality. But there's a part of me that misses having everything, including my GTD lists, in Evernote. I used reminders liberally, and they were an important part of my action management scheme in Evernote. I thought they worked OK... but left some things to be desired. When Evernote decides to tackle them, I'd love an opportunity to be part of a preview and/or beta group. Depending on what Evernote does in the future, I could be lured into bringing my action management lists back into the Evernote world.

I have nothing but positive feelings about this video, the functionality that was demo'd in it, Evernote's new transparency, and the overall strategy. I think the company is fully delivering on its promises for the first time that I can remember. To another poster's point: yes, this stuff is to an extent "basic" and foundational. But for Evernote to truly innovate, it must do so from a solid foundation. For the longest time Evernote's leadership showed no evidence of grasping that. Now they do. When @Ian Small started as CEO I was using Evernote more than I do today. It's no reflection on him or the company's strategy. I am a practitioner of Getting Things Done (GTD), and I decided I could benefit from a task manager more dedicated to GTD. But... the more I see from Evernote recently, the more interested I am in finding more ways to leverage the product again. And when it comes time for the company to shift gears from foundation work to innovation (which is where I'm guessing it will head), I think we'll have reason to be excited. Because Evernote will be able to do so with a product that is strong on quality and consistency, and with a leadership team that shows an ability to truly listen to customers and deliver answers to our problems. Mr. Small: great job so far. Thanks for getting me excited about Evernote again.

I'm very happy to hear feature parity across platforms is a priority. At times it feels like a completely separate product on each platform. I'm particularly happy to hear that syncing is being addressed. The main reason I almost never use Evernote web is the absence of the saved search feature which is critical to my workflow. I've always been astonished that that was not included in the new version. (And yes, I realize I could roll back to the prior version of Evernote Web but that has its own issues.) I'm hoping that's one of the features that will be prioritized at some point because I'd like to have Evernote web as an option.

Hi, @Ian Small. I was one of the people who complained pretty loudly about this one the forum subsection for the preview I was invited to test. I understand there's no perfect way to communicate with customers about this, but simply saying "here's an experimental preview -- do you like it?" wasn't good enough. I had no idea what I was looking at or what kind of feedback to provide. From what I've read in this thread and one other, part of the reason behind letting customers view a feature-incomplete experimental preview is to gauge what features to prioritize based on user feedback. So... it sounds like some of my feedback was useful -- but it would have been nice to understand that upfront. Now that I have a better understanding of the concept of the "experimental preview" I'd welcome the chance to participate in future ones. I'd also like to say I find the way you're communicating with customers is refreshing. I had been considering jumping off the Evernote ship. When you came onboard and acknowledged that Evernote's foundations needed work and that there were unacceptable quality problems with the product, I thought, "It sounds like this guy really gets it." Everything I've seen since then is reinforcing that belief. I've been increasing my usage of and reliance on Evernote because you're making me feel confident about the company and the product. Keep heading in this direction, and I will gladly remain a paying customer.

All I can say is: I really, really, really like this. A lot.

One other thing: I love the fact that the old checkbox feature will be left intact for those of us who are used to it. I like the idea of checklists -- and I may use them -- but I also like Evernote's commitment to adding options rather than subtracting them. 😊