Quick help re: how local storage works & thoughts on using both Dropbox and EN together...

[Boosh 0]

Hi – I’ve been on a half-hearted effort to go *mostly* paperless for many years now, but 2016 will be the year to really do it, really. I’ve had a Premium EN account for a long time, and I also got the upgraded Dropbox account late last year, in efforts to move this (mostly) paperless transition forward.

I have two questions (please feel free to link me directly to other discussion threads – I did do several forum searches prior to writing this post, but even the best laid search can miss its target):

1)     I use a Aspire Switch 10 (tablet that locks into a keyboard so it’s essentially a small laptop with low internal memory) for work travel. To this point I’ve only used the web version of Evernote on this computer since I know that it’s hard drive isn’t big enough to sync down all my notes. (I assume all these notes are synced locally on my “big” home laptop that has EN installed directly on its desktop.) I would like to have the native PC EN version on this travel tablet laptop…but what happens when I install this and there’s not enough room for it to download the EN files locally? Does it work like your phone version and just cache the most recent files up to the limitations of your local hard drive? Am I headed for trouble and just use the Web version on this computer? I suppose this begs the questions that eventually I may exceed my “big” home laptop local memory too – what happens then? I’m just trying to understand the actual memory location mechanics…even though I’ve been a long time EN user. (FWIW, I have Dropbox installed on this travel laptop computer…so I will store all working files that way…so I’m really not utilizing the local tablet memory for file storage…though I will have to have internet access to access files of course.)

2)     For those utilizing both Dropbox AND Evernote, what is your workflow and/or how to you determine what type of files to store where. To add another dimension to this, I work full time as well so I have both personal and work files. To this point, Evernote has been mostly personal…with a few notebooks with an unorganized massing of work reference material (but not active deal/project work). I log directly into my work server to access the active deal files there. I am allowed to have Dropbox installed on my work desktop but NOT Evernote. So I’m thinking that I am going to migrate my work-server files to Dropbox (since this is permissible by the company). Would you then use a note per deal/project to manage the status updates of each project?

[DTLow 5,736]

1 hour ago, Boosh said:

For those utilizing both Dropbox AND Evernote, what is your workflow and/or how to you determine what type of files to store where.

I'm not that familiar with your environment, devices and don't have storage constraints.  

• I don't think EN allows you to change the database location, so you wouldn't be able to put it in Dropbox.  
• Possibly put your attachments into Dropbox instead of storing them in Evernote.  That gets around the storage and company constraints.
• And if space is really tight, you're wise to use the web version on your travel laptop.  I don't think you have the option of installing the mobile version; it's the full version with a full set of files.

>>Would you then use a note per deal/project to manage the status updates of each project?

This seems to be a generic question not constrained by your situation.  It's a big subject, with references to GTD (David Allen and Getting Things Done) and the TSW website.

The quick answer; Yes , I have a master note for each project.  It shows the tasks with checkboxes, deliverables, reference materials etc.  I also have notes for each task.

[CalS 5,280]

@Boosh

1)  Using the native PC app does not work like the phone version, it will use disk capacity on your tablet. Relative to running out of space, I've been using EN for 5 years or so, have become paperless, and my EN database is 18 GB  with 14k PDFs in that mix.  Check the size of your current EXB file on your home machine and see how much free disk space you have on that machine.  That should give you a feel for how much risk you have of running out of space.

2)  I use Dropbox for photos and the like.  I put everything else into EN, mostly because I like having things in one place and the power of the EN search function.  Probably has something to do with my familiarity with EN versus DB as well. 

Obviously you can use EN web at work.  You might consider creating a work and a personal notebook in addition to an Inbox notebook to start.  Keep in mind that you may want to have a local notebook at home for any confidential notes.  Also, you can put a DB link in an EN note, may not be appropriate for your workflow though.  The note per deal/project has more to do with how you work and think.  I tend to use a tag for a project and then do tag:project text type searches. 

To be clear, the above is based upon my method of dumping everything into EN (other than photos) and using tag/text search to get a result of 10-20 notes that contain what I am seeking.  Works for me, not for everyone.  FWIW.

[gazumped 11,666]

Just to add to the discussion - if you want the convenience of Desktop Evernote but don't have the disk storage space for a large database,  why not start a new basic account for that machine and share one or more notebooks from that device to your home desktop.  You only have to accommodate the 'current' few basic account notes on your desktop,  and you'll have access to those on your home desktop.  Move unnecessary notes from basic to desktop,  and copy notes for the next day's work from desktop to basic.  If you're missing relevant notes,  use the web connection to access the larger account and copy notes across.  Maybe.

[Boosh 0]

Thanks guys for the thoughtful feedback.

[I looked into TSW a year or two ago. It seemed really great for a personal system, but it also seemed like a lot to keep track of...I'd love to hear any success stories of folks who use TSW for home and work. It also becomes hard if you want to share any of your Evernotes with colleagues at work (who then may not have same tags...).]

So I have to say it's a little disappointing to hear that there's no good solution for using Evernote with a small tablet-type PC. I mean I'm lucky that I have a "big" "regular" laptop at home with lots of local memory for operating the Desktop version of the program. But as the trend seems to be more and more fluid/mobile/cloud based, I can easily see NOT using my big laptop anymore...just working at work and then using this tiny tablet-laptop for personal or travel work.

Like if I was someone who ONLY had a low-memory laptop, what are my options? Use Evernote until I max out my hard drive (which could happen fast with a Premium account and a goal to go paperless, i.e. scan all the paper in house into EN). What exactly happens when you max out your local memory and you're using a Desktop version of EN? Does an error message pop up? Does the desktop version stop working? Does the desktop version of EN crash?

Related question, assume I had two "big hard drive" devices. Like assume that my work computer allowed the full desktop version of EN to be installed. In that case would a full set of all the EN files be stored on BOTH my home laptop and my work desktop computers?

I find it strange that EN desktop doesn't operate like Dropbox's desktop application - which I believe pulls down the requested folder from the cloud, caches is locally for faster/easier use, but as new files are pulled down, the older folders eventually "go back up" into the cloud (i.e. are no longer cached). In that way, I can use the full desktop version of Dropbox on my little tablet laptop.

I still can't believe that I can't use the full Desktop version on my little laptop without having a separate account, sharing notebooks, etc. (though thanks for that idea - creative, but ultimately too complicated for me...I'm really trying to streamline and simplify my life).

[CalS 5,280]

You are welcome.

It still boils down to how big your Evernote data base will become and how much storage you have on the tablet.  Right now I have my entire EN data base stored on my phone, iPad and two PCs, other than local notebooks that is.  I don't see the day the data base will be too big for any of the devices.   But that is based upon my usage pattern of adding 3GB a year or so to EN each year.  You may be adding more.

There have been requests for selective sync, but EN does not comment on their enhancement list or priorities.  If you don't want to store locally, the web is pretty much the solution.

[DTLow 5,736]

52 minutes ago, Boosh said:

[I looked into TSW a year or two ago. It seemed really great for a personal system, but it also seemed like a lot to keep track of...I'd love to hear any success stories of folks who use TSW for home and work.

My system works for me.  I have borrowed from GTD and TSW but I don't follow it completely.

1. I use tags for organization, not notebooks. Notebooks have their uses, such as Sharing and Local.
2. My high level review is at the project level.  I never got into the higher level reviews
3. I never understood the context thing.  Perhaps my work and home life were too interwound (I worked at home).  I always have my phone and computer with me, I don't need to flag tasks as either
4. I work from a daily journal note that I prepare each morning. Sections are copied links from En searches, for example Tasks Now, Tasks Soon, Tasks Later, Open Projects
   I found it difficult to work directly from the EN search lists
   I have various "In Box" sources which I need to consolidate, for example my EN notes and my Calendar

[DTLow 5,736]

1 hour ago, Boosh said:

It also becomes hard if you want to share any of your Evernotes with colleagues at work (who then may not have same tags...).]

 

Agreed.  

But if its my notebook, its my rules. If I want to use the tag When Now, thats how it is

However other people use different tags, for example !Urgent.
Thats why my shortcut for When Now includes various search terms. tag:When Now tag:!Urgent

[DTLow 5,736]

1 hour ago, Boosh said:

there's no good solution for using Evernote with a small tablet-type PC

I'm not sure that's of such a big concern for the masses.  
With storage being ever cheaper, I see it as the least constraint.
Evernote offers mobile solutions both apps and the web, but I'm able to have my entire data on my iPad

I'm not clear on what happens when you reach your storage limit.  Its never a good idea to even get close.
 

[DTLow 5,736]

1 hour ago, Boosh said:

would a full set of all the EN files be stored on BOTH my home laptop and my work desktop computers?

Yes, thats the way it works.

I had no problems with that, however some people might want to have two different accounts.

[Boosh 0]

6 minutes ago, DTLow said:

"Evernote offers mobile solutions both apps and the web, but I'm able to have my entire data on my iPad"
 

You know, I think that even after using EN all these years, I have a fundamental misunderstanding of how storage works, perhaps.

I guess i figure that since I'm storing thousands of MB of PDF files on hundreds of Evernotes, that the EN storage size must be gigantic....clearly this is not the case if you're fitting your entire data set on your iPad and you're clearly a "power users"! Like, where does the ACTUAL PDF get stored?

[Boosh 0]

So my tablet has a 64 GB micro SD card. Can I specify to have all EN files saved onto that SD card?

[DTLow 5,736]

22 minutes ago, Boosh said:

So my tablet has a 64 GB micro SD card. Can I specify to have all EN files saved onto that SD card?

 I don't think EN will allow you to use an SD card for its database.

I'm not completey clear on the data requirements.
I have 6000+ notes.
On my Mac, my database folder is using 3.46GB
I can't even see the data use on my iPad.  The system storage information says something like 300MB of data.

[CalS 5,280]

1 hour ago, Boosh said:

You know, I think that even after using EN all these years, I have a fundamental misunderstanding of how storage works, perhaps.

I guess i figure that since I'm storing thousands of MB of PDF files on hundreds of Evernotes, that the EN storage size must be gigantic....clearly this is not the case if you're fitting your entire data set on your iPad and you're clearly a "power users"! Like, where does the ACTUAL PDF get stored?

To determine the size of your database you can go to Tools - Options - General - Open Database Folder and you should be able to see the size of your database, that being the EXB file.  Compare that and how long you have been using EN against available disk storage available and you should have a sense of your risk of running out of space. 

[Boosh 0]

On 1/6/2016 at 1:38 PM, csihilling said:

To determine the size of your database you can go to Tools - Options - General - Open Database Folder and you should be able to see the size of your database, that being the EXB file.  Compare that and how long you have been using EN against available disk storage available and you should have a sense of your risk of running out of space. 

Thanks for this - it looks like my exb file size is about 8.8 GB. So big, but not so big it won't fit on my travel laptop if I selective synch my Dropbox files too. I should also probably be more strategic with EN and purge out/off some of the stuff I don't need.

Though purging old stuff sort of goes against the EN philosophy of having a virtually limitless repository for anything you think you MIGHT need to remember in the future...

It seems entirely likely that folks who are using EN to store heavy scanning projects (i.e. long/large PDF documents) could really run up the size of the EXB files...like the upload limit with a Premium account is SUPER big...just interesting that no one knows what happens is the size of the EXB files exceeds the local HD storage capacity.

[CalS 5,280]

@Boosh

Yeah, I rarely purge anything as a specific method.  From time to time a note may appear in a search result that I really don't need anymore and I will delete it.  But no monthly campaign for sure.  EN is my second brain.

I'd assume that if EN eats the last byte of whatever storage you have that the results would be the same as if any other application or file did, your system would give you a "no mas" error.    Personally, I have an 18GB EN database on a 240GB SSD drive which is half full.  I feel safe for the foreseeable future and I'm sure technology will have done something by the time I upgrade anything.  But as usual, that's me and use cases vary.

[gazumped 11,666]

If you're using the installed desktop version and run out of disk space I'd imagine Bad Things would ensue.  You'd certainly have a 'sync error' and be unable to add new or edit existing notes.  The answer would be to uninstall the desktop version and go with the web client.  If you ran out of storage for Evernote that would mean every other app on your device would run slower and/ or crash,  because even editing a small document means your WP wants to save a working copy somewhere and Evernote would have by then eaten every spare byte.  But like Cal (kinda) I'm running a 16GB database on 1TB of spinning rust with around 400GB free space (and it needs a spring clean) so problems are unlikely to arise in the near future...

Users have made a lot of noise on the Android forums though about the problems of running the mobile app in limited space - long story short,  although you can buy big external memory cards,  OEMs like Samsung, or OS gurus in Google, or maybe it's just the Evernote devs - haven't gotten around to working out how to store active data files there.  Read only stuff like Music and Video is fine,  but store Evernote's database there and it stops working.  Evernote say they're 'looking into' what to do for users with limited storage on their mobile device - maybe their research will come to help out other users too..